Seriously. They're using real CPUs, upgradable, and you can get the VESA brackets to stick 'em on the back of your display if space is at a premium. They're also available in a wide range of performance/price specs to meet most needs.
This isn't for the average consumer. It's pretty clear apple is aiming all it's devices at either the upscale market or corporate users who don't care about cost. An 128 GB SSD* makes no sense to an average consumer, but would to a corporate user who uses it for low-profile computing or light iOS development.
That's really where stuff like the Surface Pro is aimed at: corporate buyers that prefer sleek looks over cost effectiveness. The mass market is better off buying an i3 for $400 or less.
*I hear Apple's SSDs are top notch, but, again, general consumers don't necessarily need that high quality.
Soldered CPU's really aren't that abnormal for such an "embedded" style device. I intentionally bought a SoC system with a soldered CPU for a NAS device and it would have worked out fine if the board BIOS wasn't so strange. In the past Intel has sold SoC chip/board combos for less than just the chip, so there might be a real incentive there.
No excuse for soldering the SSD or RAM though, both of those are subject to failure and this concept that we don't need recovery options if the board or power supply fails is downright silly. Upwards of 90% of the world can't use cloud storage and most users are too shortsighted to maintain their own backups, removing that one last recovery option is malicious.
there are other computers, "the size of a ham sandwich", costing much less with much better specifications btw, which can be upgraded.
The issue for me is more how commonly people upgrade components. Years ago I used to bother with that sort of thing. Sockets tended to have long lifetimes, and after 3 years you could buy a CPU that was 2 times faster for the same price.
These days sockets seem to come and go every 1-2 years, and there's not a very long upgrade path. You could buy a new CPU, but it's not going to be hugely faster.
Memory and storage are far different, and you can extend the lifetime of a PC significantly by doubling the memory or storage.
And with FOUR TB 3 ports (or, thought of another way, EIGHT PCIe X 4 "Slots") available, JUST USE AN EXTERNAL DRIVE, FFS!!!
Remember, it's a DESKTOP computer, with all that entails (separate DKM). "Portability" of your "workstation setup" isn't a big consideration.
Oh, and considering the fact that, even though the 7th and 8th generation Intel CPUs share a socket, THEY DON'T SHARE A CHIPSET, OR EVEN A COMMON PINOUT!!! So what kind of "CPU upgrade path" is INTEL providing, even for the NUCs that the Haters keep trying to pit against the Mac mini?
Seems like, with Intel, that even HAVING a socketed CPU isn't much of a "future proofing" plan.
A NUC with the same features as the Mac Mini can be purchased nekkid for a few hundred US$. Add however much RAM you want, an M.2 or SATA SSD, and an operating system and you're good to go.
And you're also at the price of a Mac mini; but sans about 90% of the I/O, a warranty and support.
Sounds like a typical lazy apple cultist cop-out. But then apple zealots dont seem big on educating themselves especially since the original poster is an apple shill that often makes bullshit statement about apple with providing any proof therefore... "Fuck him" - Me.
BTW a mac mini is 7.7 x 7.7 x 1.4 inches and standard piece of bread is 4 x 5 x.75 making a ham sandwich 4 x 5 x 1.75 so again the apple shill poster is lying with a false premise.
There might be a point to be made regarding the SSD; but aren't we getting a bit ridiculous, expecting a socketed CPU in a computer the size of a ham sandwich?
This sounda like restraint of trade. If I can meet Amazon's requirements, and I can show that I am an honest dealer, I should be able to sell on Amazon.
Hopefully, Apple will continue to push on this, and get Amazon to stop selling all the shabby "Genuine Apple" Chargers that overvolt your laptop, Batteries that last 6 months, Adapters that are barely (or less) compatible (or just plain shoddy), cables that break, etc.
That has gotten SO bad that I don't recommend anyone looking for those items to look on Amazon. It really is THAT bad.
Please explain. Show your work. You're fucking wrong, as usual.
Glad to.
This has NOTHING to do with the Commerce Clause, which I guess is what you are TRYING to invoke here. Yes, there is interstate trade; but there is also something called "Right of Contract".
And since this violates NO provisions that cover "Restraint of Trade"; there simply ISN'T a "Federal Question" here.
So, what you are saying is, that you have SELF-SELECTED Amazon, and then have the temerity to call it a "Monopoly"?
What I am saying is that a very large percentage of consumers have self-selected Amazon as being the only trustworthy means of buying things from third-party sellers with adequate consumer protection, and that they in effect have no viable competition. More than 75% of online shoppers say that they shop at Amazon most of the time.
When shopping for NEW STUFF online, I certainly shop mostly on Amazon, or at least look there first. But I would NEVER say that they have a MONOPOLY on Sales, or even Online Sales. Hell, every single retailer with more than 5 employees (and many with just 1 or 2!!!) have an ecommerce portal. There is absolutely NO way that anyone can say that either Amazon or Apple have ANY kind of a "Monopoly" here. No more than anyone can say eBay has a "Monopoly" on selling Used goods, even though I submit that most people look there either exclusively, or (as I do), first, when looking for USED stuff.
And how many people REALLY believe he just zeroed-in on the problem in 10 seconds, and wasn't told EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK before the "Expose" was recorded?
It's legal under Right of First Sale because you have no guaranteed right to sell shit on Amazon.
You're still welcome to sell it on eBay, Facebook, Craigslist, the local classified ads, to your neighbor, etc.
Amazon has the right to list, or not list, anything they god damn want to on their store. What makes you think they should be compelled to list these refurb units? That's what you are advocating for here.
Exactly this.
Too many Slashdotters have a really skewed notion of what "Free Trade" means. Not to mention "Democracy".
It's not legal for amazon to do this. But not under the right of first sale, which while it does apply, doesn't require amazon to carry the product. This IS illegal under federal antitrust law, however. And Amazon ought to be sued tomorrow because this is a textbook violation.
Right of first sale says once it's your property, the original seller no longer has any say in who you sell it to. Apple can't demand you be a part of their reseller agreement when it comes to selling refurbished machines, because you're not a party to that agreement.
Yet I bet you have argued that Apple is cheating Qualcomm out of "Royalties", based on a THIRD PARTY SALE of Qualcomm Components that were then RE-SOLD to Apple, right?
Slashdot Mirror
You want a small computer, get a NUC.
Seriously. They're using real CPUs, upgradable, and you can get the VESA brackets to stick 'em on the back of your display if space is at a premium. They're also available in a wide range of performance/price specs to meet most needs.
And almost no I/O.
Real useful in a practical application - NOT!
This isn't for the average consumer. It's pretty clear apple is aiming all it's devices at either the upscale market or corporate users who don't care about cost. An 128 GB SSD* makes no sense to an average consumer, but would to a corporate user who uses it for low-profile computing or light iOS development.
That's really where stuff like the Surface Pro is aimed at: corporate buyers that prefer sleek looks over cost effectiveness. The mass market is better off buying an i3 for $400 or less.
*I hear Apple's SSDs are top notch, but, again, general consumers don't necessarily need that high quality.
You're kidding, right?
Where's the I/O on a Surface Pro?
Where's the RAM. Upgradability?
Yeah, real good value, that!
It doesn't really matter, this thing is way too expensive for anybody to want it. What is Apple thinking, I love it.
You want a small computer, get a NUC. You want a decent computer don't get a mini.
But if you want to do something like this, nothing else will do.
https://goo.gl/images/v3JUdA
Note that that is likely a greater computer (REAL computer, not some virtualization bullshit) density than even blade severs can attain.
And a damn sight less power hungry, LOUD, and likely less maintenance headache. Minis are REALLY reliable..
Depends on if you think the Right to Repair is important.
What does a soldered CPU have to do with THAT?
Since 1976 (my entrance into Personal Computers), I have NEVER even SEEN a CPU failure.
Never.
Soldered CPU's really aren't that abnormal for such an "embedded" style device. I intentionally bought a SoC system with a soldered CPU for a NAS device and it would have worked out fine if the board BIOS wasn't so strange. In the past Intel has sold SoC chip/board combos for less than just the chip, so there might be a real incentive there.
No excuse for soldering the SSD or RAM though, both of those are subject to failure and this concept that we don't need recovery options if the board or power supply fails is downright silly. Upwards of 90% of the world can't use cloud storage and most users are too shortsighted to maintain their own backups, removing that one last recovery option is malicious.
The RAM is SOCKETED, moron.
Do try to keep up!
there are other computers, "the size of a ham sandwich", costing much less with much better specifications btw, which can be upgraded.
The issue for me is more how commonly people upgrade components. Years ago I used to bother with that sort of thing. Sockets tended to have long lifetimes, and after 3 years you could buy a CPU that was 2 times faster for the same price.
These days sockets seem to come and go every 1-2 years, and there's not a very long upgrade path. You could buy a new CPU, but it's not going to be hugely faster.
Memory and storage are far different, and you can extend the lifetime of a PC significantly by doubling the memory or storage.
And with FOUR TB 3 ports (or, thought of another way, EIGHT PCIe X 4 "Slots") available, JUST USE AN EXTERNAL DRIVE, FFS!!!
Remember, it's a DESKTOP computer, with all that entails (separate DKM). "Portability" of your "workstation setup" isn't a big consideration.
Oh, and considering the fact that, even though the 7th and 8th generation Intel CPUs share a socket, THEY DON'T SHARE A CHIPSET, OR EVEN A COMMON PINOUT!!! So what kind of "CPU upgrade path" is INTEL providing, even for the NUCs that the Haters keep trying to pit against the Mac mini?
Seems like, with Intel, that even HAVING a socketed CPU isn't much of a "future proofing" plan.
A NUC with the same features as the Mac Mini can be purchased nekkid for a few hundred US$. Add however much RAM you want, an M.2 or SATA SSD, and an operating system and you're good to go.
And you're also at the price of a Mac mini; but sans about 90% of the I/O, a warranty and support.
Next brilliant idea?
An Intel NUC is smaller, faster, and the SSD is replaceable or upgradeable. I have one with a 1tb SATA SSD and a 256GB M.2 SSD.
And has shit for I/O.
Oh, and they are NOT smaller.
Or maybe 2400G to fit in a tiny case. Some decent onboard vega punch and just say no to Apple's external GPU, what a bad idea.
Wow!
The entire rest of the industry and reviewers don't think so.
So where, pray tell, in a case like that, is a Vega going to find sufficient cooling?
I think the wisdom of Apple's decision is going to come clear, when this mini is going to be able to rock 24/7 without throttling at full load.
There's a reason they put a fan that takes up nearly the entire empty space in the case with 2 X the airflow of the previous model's. Think about it.
aren't we getting a bit ridiculous, expecting a socketed CPU in a computer the size of a ham sandwich?
no.
there are other computers, "the size of a ham sandwich", costing much less with much better specifications btw, which can be upgraded.
Seriously, mods?!?
The parent is modded +5 Insightful WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF?'!?
Sounds like a typical lazy apple cultist cop-out. But then apple zealots dont seem big on educating themselves especially since the original poster is an apple shill that often makes bullshit statement about apple with providing any proof therefore...
"Fuck him" - Me.
BTW .75 making a ham sandwich 4 x 5 x 1.75 so again the apple shill poster is lying with a false premise.
a mac mini is 7.7 x 7.7 x 1.4 inches and standard piece of bread is 4 x 5 x
OMFG!
I hope you're not serious!
And who said a "regulation ham sandwich"?
Still learning that it's the job of the person making the assertion to back up said assertion?
"That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens
Ooh! Nice Quote!
That's a KEEPER, thanks!!!
Too many Slashdotters have a really skewed notion of what "Free Trade" means. Not to mention "Democracy".
Buttbuttbutt they TUK eR JERBS! er JERBS! Whatabutt r FREEZE PEACH they tuk er FREEZE PEACH!
Yes, that movie is even more true today... Sigh!
Haven't you figured out by now; it is aliterate. It can read, but it won't.
What makes you think it could take a class, and learn something?
I like the term "aliterate"!
There might be a point to be made regarding the SSD; but aren't we getting a bit ridiculous, expecting a socketed CPU in a computer the size of a ham sandwich?
This sounda like restraint of trade. If I can meet Amazon's requirements, and I can show that I am an honest dealer, I should be able to sell on Amazon.
Yeah. In your dreams.
Idiot.
Hopefully, Apple will continue to push on this, and get Amazon to stop selling all the shabby "Genuine Apple" Chargers that overvolt your laptop, Batteries that last 6 months, Adapters that are barely (or less) compatible (or just plain shoddy), cables that break, etc.
That has gotten SO bad that I don't recommend anyone looking for those items to look on Amazon. It really is THAT bad.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/a...
Please explain. Show your work. You're fucking wrong, as usual.
Glad to.
This has NOTHING to do with the Commerce Clause, which I guess is what you are TRYING to invoke here. Yes, there is interstate trade; but there is also something called "Right of Contract".
And since this violates NO provisions that cover "Restraint of Trade"; there simply ISN'T a "Federal Question" here.
Don't have time to educate you further.
What I am saying is that a very large percentage of consumers have self-selected Amazon as being the only trustworthy means of buying things from third-party sellers with adequate consumer protection, and that they in effect have no viable competition. More than 75% of online shoppers say that they shop at Amazon most of the time.
When shopping for NEW STUFF online, I certainly shop mostly on Amazon, or at least look there first. But I would NEVER say that they have a MONOPOLY on Sales, or even Online Sales. Hell, every single retailer with more than 5 employees (and many with just 1 or 2!!!) have an ecommerce portal. There is absolutely NO way that anyone can say that either Amazon or Apple have ANY kind of a "Monopoly" here. No more than anyone can say eBay has a "Monopoly" on selling Used goods, even though I submit that most people look there either exclusively, or (as I do), first, when looking for USED stuff.
Slashdot readers who would never buy an Apple computer bitching about Amazon not selling certain Apple computers. How rich!
SO true, LOL!!!
Rossman fixed a bent pin in about 10 seconds.
Right.
And how many people REALLY believe he just zeroed-in on the problem in 10 seconds, and wasn't told EXACTLY WHERE TO LOOK before the "Expose" was recorded?
NOW who was being a lying cheat?
It's legal under Right of First Sale because you have no guaranteed right to sell shit on Amazon.
You're still welcome to sell it on eBay, Facebook, Craigslist, the local classified ads, to your neighbor, etc.
Amazon has the right to list, or not list, anything they god damn want to on their store. What makes you think they should be compelled to list these refurb units? That's what you are advocating for here.
Exactly this.
Too many Slashdotters have a really skewed notion of what "Free Trade" means. Not to mention "Democracy".
It's not legal for amazon to do this. But not under the right of first sale, which while it does apply, doesn't require amazon to carry the product.
This IS illegal under federal antitrust law, however. And Amazon ought to be sued tomorrow because this is a textbook violation.
No it's not.
Stupid shit.
Right of first sale says once it's your property, the original seller no longer has any say in who you sell it to. Apple can't demand you be a part of their reseller agreement when it comes to selling refurbished machines, because you're not a party to that agreement.
Yet I bet you have argued that Apple is cheating Qualcomm out of "Royalties", based on a THIRD PARTY SALE of Qualcomm Components that were then RE-SOLD to Apple, right?
Slashtards.
Interstate trade, no less. Some Amazon and Apple assholes need to go to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
And you need to go back to Junior High School Civics class.