I can't claim they did or didn't. I _can_ however state that Apple consistently ignores user feedback, tells you bugs will be fixed and then never gets around to it, and half asses feature requests. Just look at how long users were requesting that folders be sorted first in finder, leading to the creation of xtrafinder to fill that gap. Then Apple breaks it and says "oops" guess we will have to half ass make sorting folders first work... but only when sorting by name, not by date which was the most requested.
So it wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple _was_ made aware of the issue by displaylink and then either a: never fixed the bug when they said they would, or b: fixed the bug and then applied another patch that broke it again.
As for displaylink breaking, just look at what it is sitting on. Every single one of the people saying the Windows drivers break on updates is running Windows 10... the latest problem child OS from MS. My Mac with Yosemite hasn't had the drivers break in the four years I've had it, My Windows 8.1 laptop has no driver breakage in the same time, and my Server2k12 workstation has had.... a whole 0 times that the displaylink driver broke in an update.
I would definitely point the finger at the problem being Windows 10 in this case.
Has DisplayLink stated that they informed Apple BEFORE macOS 11.13.4 was Released? I'm pretty sure they would have said so if that was true.
And there have definitely been more complaints about Sierra and High Sierra "breaking things" (and secondary displays in general, especially), with some unlucky people wondering if Apple will EVER get around to addressing the problem; but, just like Snow Leopard and Lion were at first REVILED due to a large number of issues (some fairly serious), Snow Leopard, at least, matured into one of the BEST-loved versions of OS X/macOS ever released! Considering that High Sierra is primarily supposed to be a "bugfix" release, and we are only on ".4", I feel like Apple will constantly improve this version, until IT becomes one that "You will pry that from my cold, dead fingers", just like a LOT of people feel about with Snow Leopard 10.6.8...
I think the issue with Windows 10 is that MS has FINALLY stopped bending-over-backwards to support legacy code and haxies, and now just Recompiles everything from scratch, with no regard to backwards-compatibility of non-Published calls and methodologies. Not that I am defending DisplayLink; but I think that MAY help explain why their Drivers for Windows 10 are extra-specially Fragile.
I'm pretty agnostic in the operating system department. I use all 3 on a regular basis, though I do primarily use Linux. I've come to realize they all are good in some ways, all suck in some ways, and they all have this in common- some things on them don't work real great out of the box. You can descend into the realms of janky hackery to make them work, (compiling kernels, modules, modifying.INF files, plists) but you'll pay for it in the overall polished experience of the OS. Which sucks, but that's life. Operating system bickering is partisanship these days. People rabidly defend their favorite sports team with zero grasp on reality. They'll pretend things are true about their favorite sports team even if they aren't, and they'll make up things that aren't true about their rival, even if they are. All the while, people like me are just sitting here keeping mental lists of what we can do in each OS easiest, and watching people like you call people morons for daring to criticize your precious Red Sox. As ridiculous as OP may have been, you're still attacking him by perpetuating a bad argument. Maybe to him, having to recompile his kernel (though I can't remember the last time I've had to do that) is less bothersome than having his stupid external display stop working, or whatever. Maybe the vendor *should* have tried harder to make sure they were involved in Mac development so that they wouldn't have been blind sided by this... though given the Mac market share, it's understandable that Mac support is a second class citizen to them. Don't be offended by that. But one thing is for sure- you can spot the rabid fan with their constant use of whataboutisms and double standards. Apple should do more QC before a release. If this device was big enough to make the news, then it should have been big enough for someone in Apple to say "hey, let's not break this."
That goes for Microsoft as well, though I have no opinion on who does it better. They all feel about the same to me. End of the day- updates suck, and every operating system is an idiosyncratic pain in the ass.
I will say this, though. My boss just got a brand new Mac Pro (I think? huge ass computer-and-monitor-in-one, 10 core monster with like 128GB of ram) and that is one sexy ass machine. I'm still 4x more productive than him on my Linux machine, but hey- he's my boss. More power to him.
Maybe the vendor *should* have tried harder to make sure they were involved in Mac development so that they wouldn't have been blind sided by this... though given the Mac market share, it's understandable that Mac support is a second class citizen to them. Don't be offended by that.
If they support the Platform, then they should SUPPORT the Platform, period!
Plus, according to several posters to this Article, Windows Updates regularly break DisplayLink's Haxies (I won't even dignify them by calling them "Drivers"), too. So, the knowledge deficit is squarely in DisplayLink's corner, IMHO.
I will say this, though. My boss just got a brand new Mac Pro (I think? huge ass computer-and-monitor-in-one, 10 core monster with like 128GB of ram) and that is one sexy ass machine.
FYI, that's an iMac Pro; we're all still waiting patiently for a new Mac Pro, LOL!
And yes, it is one sexy-ass machine!
BTW, do your boss and you do exactly the same things? Perhaps that might explain the difference in "productivity". Or maybe, just maybe, you're smarter than your boss... Wouldn't be the first time!
But, I would imagine that, once you got used to macOS, you'd find you were just as fast, or maybe even faster, on that iMac Pro than on your Linux box.
I don't know how Duet could abuse private APIs and get approval from Apple for the App Store.
Duet consists of two separate pieces:
An iOS app, which is in the app store. This piece gets reviewed by Apple, and would have no need to use private APIs; it is basically just a streaming video player with DNS service discovery and authentication.
An in-kernel device driver that runs on your Mac. This piece cannot be in the App Store, because Apple doesn't allow kexts in App Store apps, and therefore it is unlikely to have ever been reviewed by Apple in any way.
It's that second part that I could easily see depending on SPI.
Well, the iOS piece is more like a VNC Client than a simple Streaming Video Player, because it has to translate touch events to mouse events, etc., because you can even simulate the TouchBar and use the Apple Pencil, as well as do Selection, Dragging, Resizing, etc. on the iPad-side. It's really a pretty cool App!
I can see why the Mac-side has to be a kext; and you are right; those aren't allowed in the App Store (and would also be more "fragile")... Thanks for the info. I never bothered to look into it that deeply!
Hopefully, Apple and Duet will be able to come to a compromise that will allow this most-excellent piece of SW to continue to live. It's a brilliant idea, and pretty much a better idea than a touchscreen Mac.
I just wonder why it can't be wireless. Surely to Deity 802.11ac is frickin' FAST ENOUGH to avoid too much latency... But I'm sure the Duet people would like to remove that restriction, too!
He's as bad as you are. You two are feeding off of each other and amplifying the voice of your ignorance quite nicely. Echo chambers are beautiful.
Wrong.
HE was the one that started off by saying he was getting tired of "all the bugs" in macOS, and so was switching to Linux; but then turned RIGHT around and complained that he hadn't been able to get Debian to work with his Video Card, which kind of defeated the STATED reason for his "Switch" (to supposedly get away from all of macOS' recent bugs).
I just pointed out the ridiculousness and self-cancelling-logic embodied in his two statements.
A patch rollback is not so easy on OSX. Just like with Windows, their world view is that no one ever rolls back. So, make a full backup before clicking the button that says there's an OS update.
It's probably just a bug. But Apple has not responded on this issue, there is no evidence that they're working on one. There are a whole lot of anonymous posters at DisplayLink forums who are bashing each other for being either Apple or DisplayLink shills. The longer that Apple ignores the issue the worse the blood feud is going to get.
Actually, one of the (very few) things that is at least theoretically better on Windows is the concept of "System Restore Points". Now, nevermind that it seems to work about 25% of the time; but when it does, it's pure genius.
But, then again, Apple has Time Machine...
Well, if nothing else, because of Duet's reporting, I am SURE Apple is well-aware that they have a "situation" at this point, and I have just GOT to believe they are working on it, even if they are being their usual "silent" self...
The fact that Apple didn't test with Duet ($10 on the iOS App Store) is a bit more disconcerting. Apple probably should test that when making big changes to the display support. It doesn't require any hardware that they don't have in-house, they can probably download the app for free for internal testing purposes, and I'd wager there are a lot more people using that than USB monitors. That said, without being inside the mothership or Duet, I can't guess whether they were (ab)using private APIs; there might not have be any way for Apple to fix it on their side, in which case working with Duet to fix the problem might be the only possible approach.
I don't know how Duet could abuse private APIs and get approval from Apple for the App Store. Yes, I know the Duet people are ex-Apple engineers; but I still don't see them bending-over-backwards (or forwards) for that...
I would imagine that the Duet thing was more of an oversight than anything else. Whoever was doing QC probably tested the new version with Apple's Display Adapters, and called it "Good", before releasing it for Beta Testing.
Much as I hate to agree with TheFakeTimCook, that's pretty much accurate. Even I can't play devil's advocate here. Their Mac drivers have been crap for many years.
It is also relatively unsurprising that Apple didn't test their hardware. USB monitors are quite rare, in large part because USB 2.0 just wasn't fast enough to provide a good experience, and USB 3.0 usually shares a port with Thunderbolt, which can carry DisplayPort data without the need for software-based compression or custom drivers. The only place their technology really makes sense is in products designed for use with tablets and smartphones (which lack DisplayPort/Thunderbolt).
To be blunt, we're rapidly heading towards a future in which the entire concept of tunneling video over USB no longer makes sense, and it already makes no sense when you're talking about computer-based operating systems, making these devices thoroughly legacy hardware. I assume that the chipset manufacturer recognizes this, and won't spend much time or effort trying to improve the quality of the drivers. Thus, we should expect the drivers to degrade more and more until they become completely unsupported/unusable.
IMO, the best thing they can do for their users would be to open source their entire driver and software stack so that people who still care about maintaining compatibility can continue to hack on it in their spare time. In the meantime, they need to find a new niche if the company wants to stay in business long-term, because this niche is rapidly ceasing to have significant value in the marketplace.
Thanks for the props, man!
And from what I have learned from reading the many replies to LynwoodRooster's Hatorade spew on this subject, I guess their Windows drivers aren't any better, or barely so. Yet SOMEHOW, it is Shocking, Shocking, that DisplayLink's drivers have been broken by this macOS Update. Gimme a break! (Not you, dgatwood; but the other hand-wringing Haters, almost all of whom will never own an Apple product, anyway).
And your comments on USB displays is also accurate, which is why Duet Display also "broke"; but they were "man" enough NOT to blame Apple, and are actively working with Apple on a solution, rather than just finger-pointing after the fact.
I think the best thing we can hope for is that, now that Intel has stopped getting in the way of Thunderbolt adoption, that we will start to see more REASONABLY-PRICED TRUE TB 3 Docks and Display Adapters, and the whole Raison-detre (sorry, not chasing down the accented chars on my Windows work laptop!) for things like DisplayLink goes down the way of setting DIPswitches for IRQ numbers.
"Now, if I could only find the right kernel options to compile a Debian Kernel THAT WILL WORK WITH MY VIDEO CARD, I'd be relatively happy..."
You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo stuck in the past, man. Try getting something other than Tim Cook's semen in your diet. It'll clear your head.
Only someone who hasn't used a desktop Linux distribution in the last decade would say such a thing, and so shame on you for act like you're some kind of authority on anything other than how much pineapple Tim eats.
Really?
It was the GP retchdog's post that complained about "finding compiler options to compile a Debian Kernel that would make his video card work", not me.
So, bitch at HIM. I never said I was an "authority". That's what YOU are claiming to be.
It may SEEM like a minor Update; but it rolled-out eGPU support for macOS; so OBVIOUSLY there were some fairly "deep" changes to the whole Display Framework; so, breaking a couple of THIRD PARTY display products is pretty much a foreseeable thing.
According to the version number, it IS a minor update. That's why we call that digit the MINOR VERSION.
The fact that Apple (probably unwisely) ignored their versioning policies and chose to roll out a major kernel-level feature in a software update doesn't change the fact that this is a software update, not a version upgrade, and software updates normally do NOT break things — particularly drivers. The whole reason Apple users are so willing to blindly install every software update, but drag their heels on major version upgrades, is that the former are expected not to break things, and the latter often do. When things like this happen, it undermines the perception of Apple as a quality software vendor, and runs the risk of leaving users vulnerable to serious security flaws because they feared installing some minor update that would have fixed it.
On the flip side, I looked into DisplayLink-based hardware a few years ago, and the sheer number of complaints about the drivers being badly broken left me so disgusted that I didn't go down that path. And they still haven't fixed those problems after what, four years?
So when I heard that it broke completely in a software update, my response was "must be Tuesday." Then, I realized it was Wednesday, and I was slightly alarmed, but only slightly, and only because today feels like Tuesday for some reason.
Actually, Apple had already announced that eGPU support was "Coming Soon" when they released High Sierra. So this is simply Apple doing a little ":catch-up" Development, rather than roling-out an entirely-new Platform Feature, such as say, AirPlay.
And you WILL notice that only TWO Display Vendors were affected, and one (Duet), was already on top of the situation, telling their Customers to wait on the Upgrade until Duet and Apple work things out. The difference being, the Duet Devs. are REASONABLE, and actually DID *THEIR* Due-Diligence, unlike the slack-jawed semi-sentient beings at DisplayLink, who probably actually contract-out their Display Drivers to some barefooted adolescent in a country without even reliable AC power.
As you yourself pointed-out, DisplayLink has a long and storied history of having their drivers/hacks break anytime someone so much as BREATHES on a Framework; so I REALLY fail to see how Apple is the bad-guy here.
Apple long abandoned the idea that "bad press" could put a dent into their bottom line. Simply because it does not. They could be proven to kill a newborn baby with every iPhone produced and it wouldn't make a difference.
Mods, Mods, Mods...
How in the FUCK can a pile of UNSUBSTANTIATED Hatorade crapola like the Parent's post be modded Score 4: INTERESTING?!?!
WTF is "Interesting" about those comments? They are just the Opinion of a Hater!
Other Mods, please correct the Parent's mod to the Flamebait it is.
So, just HOW many THIRD PARTY display products SHOULD Apple test with?!?
More than zero? Displaylink isn't some little rinkydink monitor maker, they are the driver framework that something like 99.9% of all USB monitor vendors use. They should test against Displaylink at the very least. It's only driver technology that has been around for a decode or so...
As for why have one of these monitors? Easy, only having to use one single cable since they are also USB powered. It makes it quite easy and clutter free to have a second monitor on the go.
And so, if DisplayLink is that popular, then why didn't THEY test the Beta version of macOS 11.4 and send Apple a Bug Report BEFORE it got Released?
They have some responsibility (actually a LOT more than Apple!) in this.
Oh, and they may not SEEM to be "rinky-dink"; but apparently, their software IS, since apparently, Windows Updates regularly break DisplayLink compatibility, too, according to several people replying to this thread.
Aren't most USB-C docks with video output actually Thunderbolt docks in the first place and don't need any special software?
I don't have a USB-C-equipped Mac, so I only know so much about this; but...
I believe the answer is "No". There is a complicated relationship between USB-C and Thunderbolt 3, and I believe that you are correct in stating that a TRUE TB3 Dock would NOT require a Driver. But the USB-C Docks that are "Thunderbolt compatible" aren't REALLY TB3 at ALL, and actually use a different protocol out of the USB-C port, which I believe requires some interaction from the Peripheral-side of things to get the USB-C/TB3 controller in the computer to spit out the video datastream.
Sorry, that's more than all I really know about how all this works.
Sounds like the Beta Testers either didn't report this to Apple, or didn't encounter the failure.
And that nobody at DisplayLink was tasked with bothering to test the pre-release of the OS. This is something that vendors do when OS updates come out - especially with ones known to contain updates specific to their area.
You're right.
That's why the Duet Display people (who also happen to be ex-Apple engineers) KNEW to warn their Users "Don't Upgrade Yet. But we're working with Apple on it!", instead of just whining and blaming Apple.
And yet, Windows updates, even weeks-old ones, used to break my DisplayLink adapter's functionality on a regular enough basis that I finally stopped using it altogether.
This issue today has nothing to do with OS updates and everything to do with a shoddy company who has built their product on top of a pile of brittle hacks that fall apart at the slightest touch.
And you forget to mention that Windows Updates Breaking Things is such NON-NEWS that it hardly even gets mentioned anymore.
But you're right, it's DisplayLink that "owns" this one; not Apple.
It may SEEM like a minor Update; but it rolled-out eGPU support for macOS; so OBVIOUSLY there were some fairly "deep" changes to the whole Display Framework; so, breaking a couple of THIRD PARTY display products is pretty much a foreseeable thing.
No, it is not. When Microsoft rolls out a new OS, it's pretty much 100% backwards compatible with all hardware as-is, and in the case that the default settings don't work, you can run it in an older compatibility mode and continue on. Even parallel and serial ports - heck, GPIB and 488! - are still supported.
Riiiight.
Microsoft has NEVER borked thousands upon thousands of computers with a simple "Patch Tuesday" update, let ALONE something like a "Service Pack".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
As USUAL, you are SO full of Hatorade it runs out your Lyin' Ears!
Just indicates that Apple is about to announce a new tethered monitor that Just Works... No need for that DisplayLink thing anymore - heck, it doesn't even work!
Nice try, Lying Hater.
The DisplayLink chipset is USUALLY found in third-party Multport USB-C Docks, which Apple does NOT make.
Yes, somewhat. They offer a Display Adapter; but no USB-C Multifunction Docks in which the DisplayLink stuff is usually found.
But that doesn't matter. Not enough juice in a $70 Display Adapter for Apple to deliberately code against other brands. Why? Because then you get articles like TFA.
This is more likely like "Apple tested against their own Display Adapter and saw that it was good, and then relied on Beta Testers to Report issues with Non-Apple Adapters/Displays".
I can blame the peripheral manufacture for not using the betas that have been out for a while and noticing this issue before it went public then suddenly acting like it was entirely Apples fault.
They should have warned well before the final release of the OS update, they didnt'. I.E. they don't bother testing upgrades, i.e. its definitely at least partly their problem.
People would be howling from the rafters if Visual Studio updates required a highly particular set of bleeding edge patches from Microsoft to run.
You don't actually use VisualStudio do you? Its been pretty fucked up in this respect for the last couple years. Its tied to.NET releases which ARE tied to OS releases now days.
Exactly.
Contrast DisplayLink's hand-waving with the similar "Don't Upgrade Yet" notice by the Duet display software publishers, who were obviously already on top of the situation, had already contacted Apple to work with them on a solution, and took a much less breathless "These things happen, we'll get it fixed" mindset.
No mention of anything to do with DisplayLink (the only 'display' related stuff is the addition of GPU support). Most of the release looks like it's a Safari update (one of the reasons I haven't yet applied it - it doesn't look important as I don't use Safari directly).
A pretty poor show from Apple on this one.
The addition of eGPU support, which is kind of a big deal in some circles, and OBVIOUSLY required a rather major rewrite of the Display Frameworks.
Bit feel free to ignore the most important feature of the update.
Is it okay if I blame the peripheral manufacturer for deliberately making the peripheral nigh impossible to use without their specific proprietary software? Because DisplayLink is one of many that do. They advertise it as a feature that their devices are hard to use.
No doubt. The only reason this is even an issue is that a lot of the cheapie USB-C docks with video output use their chipsets.
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I can't claim they did or didn't. I _can_ however state that Apple consistently ignores user feedback, tells you bugs will be fixed and then never gets around to it, and half asses feature requests. Just look at how long users were requesting that folders be sorted first in finder, leading to the creation of xtrafinder to fill that gap. Then Apple breaks it and says "oops" guess we will have to half ass make sorting folders first work... but only when sorting by name, not by date which was the most requested.
So it wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple _was_ made aware of the issue by displaylink and then either a: never fixed the bug when they said they would, or b: fixed the bug and then applied another patch that broke it again.
As for displaylink breaking, just look at what it is sitting on. Every single one of the people saying the Windows drivers break on updates is running Windows 10... the latest problem child OS from MS. My Mac with Yosemite hasn't had the drivers break in the four years I've had it, My Windows 8.1 laptop has no driver breakage in the same time, and my Server2k12 workstation has had.... a whole 0 times that the displaylink driver broke in an update.
I would definitely point the finger at the problem being Windows 10 in this case.
Has DisplayLink stated that they informed Apple BEFORE macOS 11.13.4 was Released? I'm pretty sure they would have said so if that was true.
And there have definitely been more complaints about Sierra and High Sierra "breaking things" (and secondary displays in general, especially), with some unlucky people wondering if Apple will EVER get around to addressing the problem; but, just like Snow Leopard and Lion were at first REVILED due to a large number of issues (some fairly serious), Snow Leopard, at least, matured into one of the BEST-loved versions of OS X/macOS ever released! Considering that High Sierra is primarily supposed to be a "bugfix" release, and we are only on ".4", I feel like Apple will constantly improve this version, until IT becomes one that "You will pry that from my cold, dead fingers", just like a LOT of people feel about with Snow Leopard 10.6.8...
I think the issue with Windows 10 is that MS has FINALLY stopped bending-over-backwards to support legacy code and haxies, and now just Recompiles everything from scratch, with no regard to backwards-compatibility of non-Published calls and methodologies. Not that I am defending DisplayLink; but I think that MAY help explain why their Drivers for Windows 10 are extra-specially Fragile.
I'm pretty agnostic in the operating system department. I use all 3 on a regular basis, though I do primarily use Linux. I've come to realize they all are good in some ways, all suck in some ways, and they all have this in common- some things on them don't work real great out of the box. You can descend into the realms of janky hackery to make them work, (compiling kernels, modules, modifying .INF files, plists) but you'll pay for it in the overall polished experience of the OS. Which sucks, but that's life. Operating system bickering is partisanship these days. People rabidly defend their favorite sports team with zero grasp on reality. They'll pretend things are true about their favorite sports team even if they aren't, and they'll make up things that aren't true about their rival, even if they are. All the while, people like me are just sitting here keeping mental lists of what we can do in each OS easiest, and watching people like you call people morons for daring to criticize your precious Red Sox. As ridiculous as OP may have been, you're still attacking him by perpetuating a bad argument. Maybe to him, having to recompile his kernel (though I can't remember the last time I've had to do that) is less bothersome than having his stupid external display stop working, or whatever. Maybe the vendor *should* have tried harder to make sure they were involved in Mac development so that they wouldn't have been blind sided by this... though given the Mac market share, it's understandable that Mac support is a second class citizen to them. Don't be offended by that. But one thing is for sure- you can spot the rabid fan with their constant use of whataboutisms and double standards. Apple should do more QC before a release. If this device was big enough to make the news, then it should have been big enough for someone in Apple to say "hey, let's not break this."
That goes for Microsoft as well, though I have no opinion on who does it better. They all feel about the same to me. End of the day- updates suck, and every operating system is an idiosyncratic pain in the ass.
I will say this, though. My boss just got a brand new Mac Pro (I think? huge ass computer-and-monitor-in-one, 10 core monster with like 128GB of ram) and that is one sexy ass machine. I'm still 4x more productive than him on my Linux machine, but hey- he's my boss. More power to him.
Maybe the vendor *should* have tried harder to make sure they were involved in Mac development so that they wouldn't have been blind sided by this... though given the Mac market share, it's understandable that Mac support is a second class citizen to them. Don't be offended by that.
If they support the Platform, then they should SUPPORT the Platform, period!
Plus, according to several posters to this Article, Windows Updates regularly break DisplayLink's Haxies (I won't even dignify them by calling them "Drivers"), too. So, the knowledge deficit is squarely in DisplayLink's corner, IMHO.
I will say this, though. My boss just got a brand new Mac Pro (I think? huge ass computer-and-monitor-in-one, 10 core monster with like 128GB of ram) and that is one sexy ass machine.
FYI, that's an iMac Pro; we're all still waiting patiently for a new Mac Pro, LOL!
And yes, it is one sexy-ass machine!
BTW, do your boss and you do exactly the same things? Perhaps that might explain the difference in "productivity". Or maybe, just maybe, you're smarter than your boss... Wouldn't be the first time!
But, I would imagine that, once you got used to macOS, you'd find you were just as fast, or maybe even faster, on that iMac Pro than on your Linux box.
But I digress...
Duet consists of two separate pieces:
It's that second part that I could easily see depending on SPI.
Well, the iOS piece is more like a VNC Client than a simple Streaming Video Player, because it has to translate touch events to mouse events, etc., because you can even simulate the TouchBar and use the Apple Pencil, as well as do Selection, Dragging, Resizing, etc. on the iPad-side. It's really a pretty cool App!
I can see why the Mac-side has to be a kext; and you are right; those aren't allowed in the App Store (and would also be more "fragile")... Thanks for the info. I never bothered to look into it that deeply!
Hopefully, Apple and Duet will be able to come to a compromise that will allow this most-excellent piece of SW to continue to live. It's a brilliant idea, and pretty much a better idea than a touchscreen Mac.
I just wonder why it can't be wireless. Surely to Deity 802.11ac is frickin' FAST ENOUGH to avoid too much latency... But I'm sure the Duet people would like to remove that restriction, too!
He's as bad as you are. You two are feeding off of each other and amplifying the voice of your ignorance quite nicely. Echo chambers are beautiful.
Wrong.
HE was the one that started off by saying he was getting tired of "all the bugs" in macOS, and so was switching to Linux; but then turned RIGHT around and complained that he hadn't been able to get Debian to work with his Video Card, which kind of defeated the STATED reason for his "Switch" (to supposedly get away from all of macOS' recent bugs).
I just pointed out the ridiculousness and self-cancelling-logic embodied in his two statements.
No "feedback" or "echo chamber" involved.
A patch rollback is not so easy on OSX. Just like with Windows, their world view is that no one ever rolls back. So, make a full backup before clicking the button that says there's an OS update.
It's probably just a bug. But Apple has not responded on this issue, there is no evidence that they're working on one. There are a whole lot of anonymous posters at DisplayLink forums who are bashing each other for being either Apple or DisplayLink shills. The longer that Apple ignores the issue the worse the blood feud is going to get.
Actually, one of the (very few) things that is at least theoretically better on Windows is the concept of "System Restore Points". Now, nevermind that it seems to work about 25% of the time; but when it does, it's pure genius.
But, then again, Apple has Time Machine...
Well, if nothing else, because of Duet's reporting, I am SURE Apple is well-aware that they have a "situation" at this point, and I have just GOT to believe they are working on it, even if they are being their usual "silent" self...
The fact that Apple didn't test with Duet ($10 on the iOS App Store) is a bit more disconcerting. Apple probably should test that when making big changes to the display support. It doesn't require any hardware that they don't have in-house, they can probably download the app for free for internal testing purposes, and I'd wager there are a lot more people using that than USB monitors. That said, without being inside the mothership or Duet, I can't guess whether they were (ab)using private APIs; there might not have be any way for Apple to fix it on their side, in which case working with Duet to fix the problem might be the only possible approach.
I don't know how Duet could abuse private APIs and get approval from Apple for the App Store. Yes, I know the Duet people are ex-Apple engineers; but I still don't see them bending-over-backwards (or forwards) for that...
I would imagine that the Duet thing was more of an oversight than anything else. Whoever was doing QC probably tested the new version with Apple's Display Adapters, and called it "Good", before releasing it for Beta Testing.
Much as I hate to agree with TheFakeTimCook, that's pretty much accurate. Even I can't play devil's advocate here. Their Mac drivers have been crap for many years.
It is also relatively unsurprising that Apple didn't test their hardware. USB monitors are quite rare, in large part because USB 2.0 just wasn't fast enough to provide a good experience, and USB 3.0 usually shares a port with Thunderbolt, which can carry DisplayPort data without the need for software-based compression or custom drivers. The only place their technology really makes sense is in products designed for use with tablets and smartphones (which lack DisplayPort/Thunderbolt).
To be blunt, we're rapidly heading towards a future in which the entire concept of tunneling video over USB no longer makes sense, and it already makes no sense when you're talking about computer-based operating systems, making these devices thoroughly legacy hardware. I assume that the chipset manufacturer recognizes this, and won't spend much time or effort trying to improve the quality of the drivers. Thus, we should expect the drivers to degrade more and more until they become completely unsupported/unusable.
IMO, the best thing they can do for their users would be to open source their entire driver and software stack so that people who still care about maintaining compatibility can continue to hack on it in their spare time. In the meantime, they need to find a new niche if the company wants to stay in business long-term, because this niche is rapidly ceasing to have significant value in the marketplace.
Thanks for the props, man!
And from what I have learned from reading the many replies to LynwoodRooster's Hatorade spew on this subject, I guess their Windows drivers aren't any better, or barely so. Yet SOMEHOW, it is Shocking, Shocking, that DisplayLink's drivers have been broken by this macOS Update. Gimme a break! (Not you, dgatwood; but the other hand-wringing Haters, almost all of whom will never own an Apple product, anyway).
And your comments on USB displays is also accurate, which is why Duet Display also "broke"; but they were "man" enough NOT to blame Apple, and are actively working with Apple on a solution, rather than just finger-pointing after the fact.
I think the best thing we can hope for is that, now that Intel has stopped getting in the way of Thunderbolt adoption, that we will start to see more REASONABLY-PRICED TRUE TB 3 Docks and Display Adapters, and the whole Raison-detre (sorry, not chasing down the accented chars on my Windows work laptop!) for things like DisplayLink goes down the way of setting DIPswitches for IRQ numbers.
"Now, if I could only find the right kernel options to compile a Debian Kernel THAT WILL WORK WITH MY VIDEO CARD, I'd be relatively happy..."
You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo stuck in the past, man. Try getting something other than Tim Cook's semen in your diet. It'll clear your head.
Only someone who hasn't used a desktop Linux distribution in the last decade would say such a thing, and so shame on you for act like you're some kind of authority on anything other than how much pineapple Tim eats.
Really?
It was the GP retchdog's post that complained about "finding compiler options to compile a Debian Kernel that would make his video card work", not me.
So, bitch at HIM. I never said I was an "authority". That's what YOU are claiming to be.
According to the version number, it IS a minor update. That's why we call that digit the MINOR VERSION.
The fact that Apple (probably unwisely) ignored their versioning policies and chose to roll out a major kernel-level feature in a software update doesn't change the fact that this is a software update, not a version upgrade, and software updates normally do NOT break things — particularly drivers. The whole reason Apple users are so willing to blindly install every software update, but drag their heels on major version upgrades, is that the former are expected not to break things, and the latter often do. When things like this happen, it undermines the perception of Apple as a quality software vendor, and runs the risk of leaving users vulnerable to serious security flaws because they feared installing some minor update that would have fixed it.
On the flip side, I looked into DisplayLink-based hardware a few years ago, and the sheer number of complaints about the drivers being badly broken left me so disgusted that I didn't go down that path. And they still haven't fixed those problems after what, four years?
So when I heard that it broke completely in a software update, my response was "must be Tuesday." Then, I realized it was Wednesday, and I was slightly alarmed, but only slightly, and only because today feels like Tuesday for some reason.
Actually, Apple had already announced that eGPU support was "Coming Soon" when they released High Sierra. So this is simply Apple doing a little ":catch-up" Development, rather than roling-out an entirely-new Platform Feature, such as say, AirPlay.
And you WILL notice that only TWO Display Vendors were affected, and one (Duet), was already on top of the situation, telling their Customers to wait on the Upgrade until Duet and Apple work things out. The difference being, the Duet Devs. are REASONABLE, and actually DID *THEIR* Due-Diligence, unlike the slack-jawed semi-sentient beings at DisplayLink, who probably actually contract-out their Display Drivers to some barefooted adolescent in a country without even reliable AC power.
As you yourself pointed-out, DisplayLink has a long and storied history of having their drivers/hacks break anytime someone so much as BREATHES on a Framework; so I REALLY fail to see how Apple is the bad-guy here.
Oh wait. Yes I do: It's because... Apple.
So you get articles like the one above. So what?
Apple long abandoned the idea that "bad press" could put a dent into their bottom line. Simply because it does not. They could be proven to kill a newborn baby with every iPhone produced and it wouldn't make a difference.
Mods, Mods, Mods...
How in the FUCK can a pile of UNSUBSTANTIATED Hatorade crapola like the Parent's post be modded Score 4: INTERESTING?!?!
WTF is "Interesting" about those comments? They are just the Opinion of a Hater!
Other Mods, please correct the Parent's mod to the Flamebait it is.
So, just HOW many THIRD PARTY display products SHOULD Apple test with?!?
Every single one for which they collected a license fee. That's the deal. You don't get to say "lazy" or "understaffed" with $800B in the bank.
And then I noticed your 4-digit User ID.
And YOU don't know that neither USB-C NOR Thunderbolt are owned by Apple???
Wow. Just. Wow.
So, just HOW many THIRD PARTY display products SHOULD Apple test with?!?
Every single one for which they collected a license fee. That's the deal. You don't get to say "lazy" or "understaffed" with $800B in the bank.
WHAT "License Fee"?!?
You're an IDIOT.
Go drink some more of that Hatorade, Hater.
So, just HOW many THIRD PARTY display products SHOULD Apple test with?!?
More than zero? Displaylink isn't some little rinkydink monitor maker, they are the driver framework that something like 99.9% of all USB monitor vendors use. They should test against Displaylink at the very least. It's only driver technology that has been around for a decode or so...
As for why have one of these monitors? Easy, only having to use one single cable since they are also USB powered. It makes it quite easy and clutter free to have a second monitor on the go.
And so, if DisplayLink is that popular, then why didn't THEY test the Beta version of macOS 11.4 and send Apple a Bug Report BEFORE it got Released?
They have some responsibility (actually a LOT more than Apple!) in this.
Oh, and they may not SEEM to be "rinky-dink"; but apparently, their software IS, since apparently, Windows Updates regularly break DisplayLink compatibility, too, according to several people replying to this thread.
Now what?
Aren't most USB-C docks with video output actually Thunderbolt docks in the first place and don't need any special software?
I don't have a USB-C-equipped Mac, so I only know so much about this; but...
I believe the answer is "No". There is a complicated relationship between USB-C and Thunderbolt 3, and I believe that you are correct in stating that a TRUE TB3 Dock would NOT require a Driver. But the USB-C Docks that are "Thunderbolt compatible" aren't REALLY TB3 at ALL, and actually use a different protocol out of the USB-C port, which I believe requires some interaction from the Peripheral-side of things to get the USB-C/TB3 controller in the computer to spit out the video datastream.
Sorry, that's more than all I really know about how all this works.
This might help:
https://thunderbolttechnology....
And this might confuse you further... ;-)
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/us...
Sounds like the Beta Testers either didn't report this to Apple, or didn't encounter the failure.
And that nobody at DisplayLink was tasked with bothering to test the pre-release of the OS. This is something that vendors do when OS updates come out - especially with ones known to contain updates specific to their area.
You're right.
That's why the Duet Display people (who also happen to be ex-Apple engineers) KNEW to warn their Users "Don't Upgrade Yet. But we're working with Apple on it!", instead of just whining and blaming Apple.
not really. i'm not happy with either option now, thanks a lot. go jam another fat one in your mouth, Cookie.
What an erudite response.
Just what I expect from most Slashtards these days.
When was the last Windows OS update that broke external display connectivity?
From the looks of the Thread Replying to YOUR latest Spew-fest, I don't even have to dignify your LYING HATORADE CRAPOLA with a Response.
Oh, how I wish this was IRC; so I could Ban-Kick you properly...
And yet, Windows updates, even weeks-old ones, used to break my DisplayLink adapter's functionality on a regular enough basis that I finally stopped using it altogether.
This issue today has nothing to do with OS updates and everything to do with a shoddy company who has built their product on top of a pile of brittle hacks that fall apart at the slightest touch.
And you forget to mention that Windows Updates Breaking Things is such NON-NEWS that it hardly even gets mentioned anymore.
But you're right, it's DisplayLink that "owns" this one; not Apple.
It may SEEM like a minor Update; but it rolled-out eGPU support for macOS; so OBVIOUSLY there were some fairly "deep" changes to the whole Display Framework; so, breaking a couple of THIRD PARTY display products is pretty much a foreseeable thing.
No, it is not. When Microsoft rolls out a new OS, it's pretty much 100% backwards compatible with all hardware as-is, and in the case that the default settings don't work, you can run it in an older compatibility mode and continue on. Even parallel and serial ports - heck, GPIB and 488! - are still supported.
Riiiight.
Microsoft has NEVER borked thousands upon thousands of computers with a simple "Patch Tuesday" update, let ALONE something like a "Service Pack".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
As USUAL, you are SO full of Hatorade it runs out your Lyin' Ears!
Just indicates that Apple is about to announce a new tethered monitor that Just Works... No need for that DisplayLink thing anymore - heck, it doesn't even work!
Nice try, Lying Hater.
The DisplayLink chipset is USUALLY found in third-party Multport USB-C Docks, which Apple does NOT make.
Does Apple offer a comparable product?
Yes, somewhat. They offer a Display Adapter; but no USB-C Multifunction Docks in which the DisplayLink stuff is usually found.
But that doesn't matter. Not enough juice in a $70 Display Adapter for Apple to deliberately code against other brands. Why? Because then you get articles like TFA.
This is more likely like "Apple tested against their own Display Adapter and saw that it was good, and then relied on Beta Testers to Report issues with Non-Apple Adapters/Displays".
I can blame the peripheral manufacture for not using the betas that have been out for a while and noticing this issue before it went public then suddenly acting like it was entirely Apples fault.
They should have warned well before the final release of the OS update, they didnt'. I.E. they don't bother testing upgrades, i.e. its definitely at least partly their problem.
People would be howling from the rafters if Visual Studio updates required a highly particular set of bleeding edge patches from Microsoft to run.
You don't actually use VisualStudio do you? Its been pretty fucked up in this respect for the last couple years. Its tied to .NET releases which ARE tied to OS releases now days.
Exactly.
Contrast DisplayLink's hand-waving with the similar "Don't Upgrade Yet" notice by the Duet display software publishers, who were obviously already on top of the situation, had already contacted Apple to work with them on a solution, and took a much less breathless "These things happen, we'll get it fixed" mindset.
To be fair, this is some guy who dropped $1K on a "display", apparently unaware that you can pick up a 49" UHD TV at Costco or Best Buy for $300.
Your Username says it all.
The release notes in the 'App store' aren't cut-and-pasteable, but they're replicated here: https://support.apple.com/en-g...
No mention of anything to do with DisplayLink (the only 'display' related stuff is the addition of GPU support). Most of the release looks like it's a Safari update (one of the reasons I haven't yet applied it - it doesn't look important as I don't use Safari directly).
A pretty poor show from Apple on this one.
The addition of eGPU support, which is kind of a big deal in some circles, and OBVIOUSLY required a rather major rewrite of the Display Frameworks.
Bit feel free to ignore the most important feature of the update.
Is it okay if I blame the peripheral manufacturer for deliberately making the peripheral nigh impossible to use without their specific proprietary software? Because DisplayLink is one of many that do. They advertise it as a feature that their devices are hard to use.
No doubt. The only reason this is even an issue is that a lot of the cheapie USB-C docks with video output use their chipsets.