Are you always a rude arrogant sod who accuses people of lying on a whim?
I had recompiled the kernel, and forgotten to include support for something or other (I believe it may have been basic LPT support, but this was a few years back).
Stupid trivial mistake, but I was trying to use the system on a new machine, not fiddle with it, and I set it up in a hurry.
A couple of uni friends had come out to my house. We all lived far apart so it was difficult organising a convenient time to work on a Machine Learning uni assignment together. The software was written on Unix and ported well to Linux. I knew the most about Linux so they came to my place. We ended up spending half an hour chatting while the fscking kernel recompiled.
I think there are 10 real ones, the rest are bizarro projects with varying degrees of popularity.
2 years ago I'd have agreed with you. Today it's different. Every PC magazine comes distributed with some weird flavour of Linux distro and urges everyone to try it.
Anyone with your attitude should then not complain, mod down, or trash someone who says Linux is not ready for the desktop, or that it's not a suitable replacement for Windows.
Yes, lets all fragment our efforts to kingdom come, then try to compete with proprietary software.
Lets have 3000 different distros, and no clear leader. Lets make sure every distro has slightly different configuration tools. While we're at it lets force users to compile their source, (including the kernel otherwise their hardware won't work).
Lets have 3 different kernel firewalls, in about as many years.
Lets have 300 desktop managers, none of which quite work or interoperate.
Lets have 3 different office suites, none of which quite translate MS Office stuff quite right....and then lets wonder why Linux isn't taking off on the desktop.
I'm getting goddamn sick of this, and I'm a developer. I'm also damn tired of defending it. I've had comp sci students roll their eyes at me when I had to recompile my kernel to add support for a printer so we could print data off in Linux. I've also had Astronomy Masters students feel overwhelmed with Linux - avoiding it or dumping it out of frustration early.
Lets decide whether we're doing cool techy geeky play stuff, or whether we want to produce something real and tangible and useable by everyone. Lets make up our minds on any given project what our goals are (or what the goals for our group are). Lets contribute to existing open source instead of starting our own little pet project that does no better than anything that came before it. Lets get a bit of unity back into open source, before it goes the way of the dinosaur!!!
Have you had a look at the tools in the distros for configuring PAM, adjusting runlevels, even adding users? Yes there are some standard common denominator binutils, so what. A lot of stuff out there varies between distros.... so what, any admin worth his paycheck doesn't use the GUI tools
That's because the GUI tools vary from distro to distro, which is not something to boast about. By now there should be one way to do things, not 700. How many versions of Windows Control Panel have we had over the last 15 years? About 4. How many versions of Linux config tools have we had? I have no idea because I'd have a hard time documenting the list let alone counting them.
Most users call tech support the second they have a problem in Windows anyway, so it would be the same in linux
What utter garbage. Have you even opened a PC magazine in the last few years? There are columns in these magazines for newer users. They get things at least partly right in allowing a gentle introduction into the complexities of a modern desktop. What about usenet and other message boards? Are you claiming everyone who posts on their is a sysadmin? I don't know about you but I know a lot of users that can't afford to hire a goddamn sysadmin every time their machine splutters (which with the complexity, bloat and compatibility issues we're seeing today can be often).
The benefit in linux is that the IT staff has a safe, simple and efficent way of fixing the problem from their own office.
What now you personally know every schmoe who claims to be a Linux sysadmin and can personally vouch for them?
Wake up. The elitist RTFM attitude is not going to make Linux the desktop of the future, but it sure as hell will kill any chance of that happening.
I know how to fix the beast. But everyone is too damned lazy to do it. all you "experts" that are crying about it and whining about it, why are you not donating 3 hours a week of your time to help build a distro that actually works for corperate/ users??
Just in case you're not trolling and you eventually come back and read this, I think you have a fantastic idea there. Lets add a whole lot more cooks, and lets make sure we create yet another version of Linux. Users just aren't confused enough as it is.
And another thing, any twit who's worked on any project knows that you can't just donate 3 hours a week. At that rate you'll take a very long time to get up to speed on anything worthwhile let alone contribute.
I suspect you're a troll though because if you really wanted help you wouldn't post as AC and you'd supply contact details for a pet project such as your distro.
If you plop a Linux desktop in front of the majority of users in an office setting, it won't take any more or less training than upgrading from W2K to XP.
Unfortunately that quite simply isn't true, since the majority of the world runs Windows on the desktop both at work and at home. Compatibility issues arise. Also, if there's a problem, there's a good chance they'll have to deleve into a command line interface to fix it, or call in external help. Lastly there are only a handful of flavours of windows but there are dozens of common distros, and everything from configuration to command line utilities tends to differ with the distros. It's a mess and a minefield for the non-techy user.
That's right! The problem with western society is that crime is not punished nearly harshly enough. If society worked the way I wanted, we'd have on the spot sentences dealt out too. So instead of the police officer on highway patrol issuing a ticket for you going 1km/hr over the speed limit, he should just draw his gun and execute you ont he spot! Think about it no more speeding!
Kinda reminds me of a film. Judge Dredd. Oh shit, better prove I watched it legitimately or the MPAA militia will execute me under article 1 of the new FUCKALL act.
Great, lets encourage a system where anyone who can demonstrate a technology can lock out the rest of the world from using it for a ridiculous amount of time.
Yeah, that'll make society a better place.
How about limiting patents and copyright to the right to derive profit from the use of an idea or work instead of the right to also restrict its use? And how about being more creative about how we make sure that this is implemented in a way where the producer doesn't pay so many IP rights holders that profit is impossible.
In all seriousness though at least dogs only mark very limited territory whereas humans make stupid laws that allow other humans to mark way more territory than anyone could possibly need or use. If the rich people of the world were limited to what they could "mark" there'd be more for everyone else.
Lets do it! And lets call it the "all you can mark" policy. How long before someone marks the former markers!
So, unless everybody wants to agree to my kooky libertarian ideal of abolishing copyright entirely (and we all know that such a thing will never happen), then we need a big hammer to enforce the law as it exists.
Kooky. I think in the long term this is the only thing that could possibly happen. Unfortunately we've built a civilization on Intellectual property concepts and its going to take a long time or the collapse of civilizations before it happens. However since the concept of copyright and patents are unnatural they won't stand in the long term (thousands of years).
Yes! Yes! Lets increase ALL the sentences! In fact lets reduce crime by making them all draconian. Caught speeding 1km/hr over the speed limit? The cop shouldn't fine you - he should execute you on the spot! Then no one will speed and kill people!
Oh wait, wasn't this in a mainstream hollywood film? Judge Dredd. Better prove I watched it ligitimately before the MPAA militia execute me for unlawful watching of a film.
Thank you for saying this in a way where you haven't been modded down. I've definitely seen Linux go backwards over the last few years and it pains me, because by now it COULD have been ready for the desktop. It's just not, and the splintering of hundreds of different distros hasn't helped at all.
Trouble is I don't know how you fix a beast that's this fragmented and distributed amongst so many individual groups of programmers. Most people here seem to just want to bury their heads in the sand and chant RTFM repeatedly at the top of their lungs, and if you shatter their fragile fantasy you'll feel their wrath.
I eventually did get a replacement camera. It just took 3+ months of rangling, and the THREAT of fair trading. I basically got fed up and said look give me a solution by the end of the week or I'm not talking any more I'm just lodging the complaint.
So now I'm wondering how long this D70 lasts. I treat the last camera with a lot of respect - always in a padded camera bag, always with covers and caps in place, stored in the right place and never treated roughly, and it lasted 8 months.
Really? I thought a Linux Cookbook would have recipes like "how to make pizza while your kernel compiles", and "spag bol - it ain't lasagne but its quick".
As a recent buyer of a D70 I have to say I absolutely regret my decision.
Here in NSW, Australia Nikon products are repaired by a company called Maxwell. 8 months after buying the camera I started to have what I believe was a shutter jam problem after about half an hour of moderate use. The problem would show up and occur more and more frequently until it was happening every 3rd shot. I do wildlife and particularly bird photography for fun and this made the camera unusable.
What kind of warranty support did I get? I sent the camera in 3 times. The first time they reset it and sent it back. The second time they said they couldn't find the fault, and sent it back. When I called to point out I could reproduce the problem within half an hour I got told to wait until the camera failed completely then send it in. The 3rd time I sent it in with a DVD of the problem occuring and asked to be kept informed of what happened. When I called in I was told they were waiting on parts which would be up to a couple of months to arrive.
In the end I threatened to complain to fair trading (state consumer complaints body), and finally had the retailer who were no more friendly pony up and replace my camera. It took over 3 months and lots of visits to the camera store to get the issue resolved (not to mention the time and trouble to make a DVD recording of what was happening) This is the short version of the story. I had a lot of rude and indifferent behaviour from both the retailer and repairer despite being polite at all times. I couldn't even find a customer complaints department at Nikon or Maxwell to complain to. Never again!
Only problem is I'm not so sure I like some of Canon's policies either. I just had a Canon multifunction die on me and since they consider print heads a replacement part it cost me AUD200 and took weeks to get that replaced since it had to be sent in for service. I also don't like the way Canon cripples their lower end cameras in software. So I'm not sure where I'll go for my next SLR. I'm just glad I only have 2 Nikon lenses, because I'm going to have to get rid of those on Ebay when this camera dies.
Basically it's boring and expensive and hard work to polish a product.
If something is open source it's usually also free as in beer. It may take a hell of a lot of work to get it to the point where it's a good open source product. Unfortunately that last 20% of the work to polish it off takes 80% of the effort. Most of the time by the time you have a good product there's no one left willing to pay for it to be polished off. The developers themselves also lose interest: After all they could be making a small fortune doing something similar elsewhere, but they do it under the open source model for a variety of reasons - obviously they're usually more motivated by interest than money.
I find the classic definition niave to say the least.
Here's the thing - the design decisions you make will ultimately be tradeoffs. By designing one way or another you'll limit some abilities of the system to change in certain ways, while enhancing its ability to change in other ways.
I see it all the time in UI design. The customer wants something added or things to work in a particular way for a particular screen. But the whole system has been built around a GUI framework that works a different way. Suddenly that one simple change is VERY hard and time consuming.
Therefore it makes sense to FOLD THE DESIGN INTO THE REQUIREMENTS AND GET EXPLICIT CONSENT FROM STAKEHOLDERS THAT THESE TRADEOFFS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
This should be done throughout the development process. Users, Business Analysts etc. need to know what decisions you're making and you need to communicate them in easy language - this is not an easy thing to do.
A more technical example:
You can use a Builder pattern to translate a document from one format to another - this makes your system more flexible because you can add conversions to other forms of document more easily (and the requirements could change at some future point to require that.
But you've also increased the complexity and perhaps reduced performance of the conversion (which may be important if you suddenly have a change to requirements which stipulates that you have to convert lots of documents quickly).
Should you use the builder pattern? Perhaps, but either way you should let all those concerned know which way you've gone and what that means for them if they change their mind about requirements.
Take everything from the plug_ins folder and move them to the "optional" folder. You can still use any of them whenever you want, they just load on the fly.
I did this and tried searching help. Acrobat popped up a message that one of the plugins required for search was missing, and suggested a reinstall of Acrobat.
In all honesty, software doesn't need to be like this. Why the fsck would you build an awesome document reader then make it load like a dog by default, and remove essential features like bookmarking? Bloody retards!
AOL monitor. Seriously, don't they do background checks for this type of job. I understand not doing them for most jobs, but this type of job, you would think it would be par for the course.
RTFA. It's a short article. It explicitly states that they did do a criminal background check.
What I do is use my older work laptop. It still has some life in it, and is used as my day to day "throw around" PC for commuting to/from work, and for photography trips.
Advantages: Cost me nothing (was already a sunk cost), Large screen for editing as well as viewing. USB2 transfers. Decent though not generous battery life.
Disadvantages: Not as portable as a little photo tank, and you do have to wait for it to resume from standby.
I've found this particularly useful for zoo photography. My girlfriend and I will typically take 3000-5000 shots in one day.
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Are you always a rude arrogant sod who accuses people of lying on a whim?
I had recompiled the kernel, and forgotten to include support for something or other (I believe it may have been basic LPT support, but this was a few years back).
Stupid trivial mistake, but I was trying to use the system on a new machine, not fiddle with it, and I set it up in a hurry.
A couple of uni friends had come out to my house. We all lived far apart so it was difficult organising a convenient time to work on a Machine Learning uni assignment together. The software was written on Unix and ported well to Linux. I knew the most about Linux so they came to my place. We ended up spending half an hour chatting while the fscking kernel recompiled.
I think there are 10 real ones, the rest are bizarro projects with varying degrees of popularity.
2 years ago I'd have agreed with you. Today it's different. Every PC magazine comes distributed with some weird flavour of Linux distro and urges everyone to try it.
There is no 'lets decide'. There is no 'single direction'. Theres just a bunch of people happening to be doing similar stuff.
In that case please don't ever and I mean EVER suggest that people move away from Windows.
Anyone with your attitude should then not complain, mod down, or trash someone who says Linux is not ready for the desktop, or that it's not a suitable replacement for Windows.
Microsoft is supporting communism AND cancer!? ...but not gay rights apparently...
Yes, lets all fragment our efforts to kingdom come, then try to compete with proprietary software.
...and then lets wonder why Linux isn't taking off on the desktop.
Lets have 3000 different distros, and no clear leader. Lets make sure every distro has slightly different configuration tools. While we're at it lets force users to compile their source, (including the kernel otherwise their hardware won't work).
Lets have 3 different kernel firewalls, in about as many years.
Lets have 300 desktop managers, none of which quite work or interoperate.
Lets have 3 different office suites, none of which quite translate MS Office stuff quite right.
I'm getting goddamn sick of this, and I'm a developer. I'm also damn tired of defending it. I've had comp sci students roll their eyes at me when I had to recompile my kernel to add support for a printer so we could print data off in Linux. I've also had Astronomy Masters students feel overwhelmed with Linux - avoiding it or dumping it out of frustration early.
Lets decide whether we're doing cool techy geeky play stuff, or whether we want to produce something real and tangible and useable by everyone. Lets make up our minds on any given project what our goals are (or what the goals for our group are). Lets contribute to existing open source instead of starting our own little pet project that does no better than anything that came before it. Lets get a bit of unity back into open source, before it goes the way of the dinosaur!!!
I don't know, 'ls' has worked for me since
... so what, any admin worth his paycheck doesn't use the GUI tools
Have you had a look at the tools in the distros for configuring PAM, adjusting runlevels, even adding users? Yes there are some standard common denominator binutils, so what. A lot of stuff out there varies between distros.
That's because the GUI tools vary from distro to distro, which is not something to boast about. By now there should be one way to do things, not 700. How many versions of Windows Control Panel have we had over the last 15 years? About 4. How many versions of Linux config tools have we had? I have no idea because I'd have a hard time documenting the list let alone counting them.
Most users call tech support the second they have a problem in Windows anyway, so it would be the same in linux
What utter garbage. Have you even opened a PC magazine in the last few years? There are columns in these magazines for newer users. They get things at least partly right in allowing a gentle introduction into the complexities of a modern desktop. What about usenet and other message boards? Are you claiming everyone who posts on their is a sysadmin? I don't know about you but I know a lot of users that can't afford to hire a goddamn sysadmin every time their machine splutters (which with the complexity, bloat and compatibility issues we're seeing today can be often).
The benefit in linux is that the IT staff has a safe, simple and efficent way of fixing the problem from their own office.
What now you personally know every schmoe who claims to be a Linux sysadmin and can personally vouch for them?
Wake up. The elitist RTFM attitude is not going to make Linux the desktop of the future, but it sure as hell will kill any chance of that happening.
I know how to fix the beast. But everyone is too damned lazy to do it. all you "experts" that are crying about it and whining about it, why are you not donating 3 hours a week of your time to help build a distro that actually works for corperate/ users??
Just in case you're not trolling and you eventually come back and read this, I think you have a fantastic idea there. Lets add a whole lot more cooks, and lets make sure we create yet another version of Linux. Users just aren't confused enough as it is.
And another thing, any twit who's worked on any project knows that you can't just donate 3 hours a week. At that rate you'll take a very long time to get up to speed on anything worthwhile let alone contribute.
I suspect you're a troll though because if you really wanted help you wouldn't post as AC and you'd supply contact details for a pet project such as your distro.
If you plop a Linux desktop in front of the majority of users in an office setting, it won't take any more or less training than upgrading from W2K to XP.
Unfortunately that quite simply isn't true, since the majority of the world runs Windows on the desktop both at work and at home. Compatibility issues arise. Also, if there's a problem, there's a good chance they'll have to deleve into a command line interface to fix it, or call in external help. Lastly there are only a handful of flavours of windows but there are dozens of common distros, and everything from configuration to command line utilities tends to differ with the distros. It's a mess and a minefield for the non-techy user.
That's right! The problem with western society is that crime is not punished nearly harshly enough. If society worked the way I wanted, we'd have on the spot sentences dealt out too. So instead of the police officer on highway patrol issuing a ticket for you going 1km/hr over the speed limit, he should just draw his gun and execute you ont he spot! Think about it no more speeding!
Kinda reminds me of a film. Judge Dredd. Oh shit, better prove I watched it legitimately or the MPAA militia will execute me under article 1 of the new FUCKALL act.
Who needs freedom anyway.
Great, lets encourage a system where anyone who can demonstrate a technology can lock out the rest of the world from using it for a ridiculous amount of time.
Yeah, that'll make society a better place.
How about limiting patents and copyright to the right to derive profit from the use of an idea or work instead of the right to also restrict its use? And how about being more creative about how we make sure that this is implemented in a way where the producer doesn't pay so many IP rights holders that profit is impossible.
Thanks for stealing my joke! :-)
In all seriousness though at least dogs only mark very limited territory whereas humans make stupid laws that allow other humans to mark way more territory than anyone could possibly need or use. If the rich people of the world were limited to what they could "mark" there'd be more for everyone else.
Lets do it! And lets call it the "all you can mark" policy. How long before someone marks the former markers!
So, unless everybody wants to agree to my kooky libertarian ideal of abolishing copyright entirely (and we all know that such a thing will never happen), then we need a big hammer to enforce the law as it exists.
Kooky. I think in the long term this is the only thing that could possibly happen. Unfortunately we've built a civilization on Intellectual property concepts and its going to take a long time or the collapse of civilizations before it happens. However since the concept of copyright and patents are unnatural they won't stand in the long term (thousands of years).
Then maybe rapists should get more time.
Yes! Yes! Lets increase ALL the sentences! In fact lets reduce crime by making them all draconian. Caught speeding 1km/hr over the speed limit? The cop shouldn't fine you - he should execute you on the spot! Then no one will speed and kill people!
Oh wait, wasn't this in a mainstream hollywood film? Judge Dredd. Better prove I watched it ligitimately before the MPAA militia execute me for unlawful watching of a film.
Who needs freedom or justice anyway?
Thank you for saying this in a way where you haven't been modded down. I've definitely seen Linux go backwards over the last few years and it pains me, because by now it COULD have been ready for the desktop. It's just not, and the splintering of hundreds of different distros hasn't helped at all.
Trouble is I don't know how you fix a beast that's this fragmented and distributed amongst so many individual groups of programmers. Most people here seem to just want to bury their heads in the sand and chant RTFM repeatedly at the top of their lungs, and if you shatter their fragile fantasy you'll feel their wrath.
I eventually did get a replacement camera. It just took 3+ months of rangling, and the THREAT of fair trading. I basically got fed up and said look give me a solution by the end of the week or I'm not talking any more I'm just lodging the complaint.
So now I'm wondering how long this D70 lasts. I treat the last camera with a lot of respect - always in a padded camera bag, always with covers and caps in place, stored in the right place and never treated roughly, and it lasted 8 months.
Really? I thought a Linux Cookbook would have recipes like "how to make pizza while your kernel compiles", and "spag bol - it ain't lasagne but its quick".
As a recent buyer of a D70 I have to say I absolutely regret my decision.
Here in NSW, Australia Nikon products are repaired by a company called Maxwell. 8 months after buying the camera I started to have what I believe was a shutter jam problem after about half an hour of moderate use. The problem would show up and occur more and more frequently until it was happening every 3rd shot. I do wildlife and particularly bird photography for fun and this made the camera unusable.
What kind of warranty support did I get? I sent the camera in 3 times. The first time they reset it and sent it back. The second time they said they couldn't find the fault, and sent it back. When I called to point out I could reproduce the problem within half an hour I got told to wait until the camera failed completely then send it in. The 3rd time I sent it in with a DVD of the problem occuring and asked to be kept informed of what happened. When I called in I was told they were waiting on parts which would be up to a couple of months to arrive.
In the end I threatened to complain to fair trading (state consumer complaints body), and finally had the retailer who were no more friendly pony up and replace my camera. It took over 3 months and lots of visits to the camera store to get the issue resolved (not to mention the time and trouble to make a DVD recording of what was happening) This is the short version of the story. I had a lot of rude and indifferent behaviour from both the retailer and repairer despite being polite at all times. I couldn't even find a customer complaints department at Nikon or Maxwell to complain to. Never again!
Only problem is I'm not so sure I like some of Canon's policies either. I just had a Canon multifunction die on me and since they consider print heads a replacement part it cost me AUD200 and took weeks to get that replaced since it had to be sent in for service. I also don't like the way Canon cripples their lower end cameras in software. So I'm not sure where I'll go for my next SLR. I'm just glad I only have 2 Nikon lenses, because I'm going to have to get rid of those on Ebay when this camera dies.
Basically it's boring and expensive and hard work to polish a product.
If something is open source it's usually also free as in beer. It may take a hell of a lot of work to get it to the point where it's a good open source product. Unfortunately that last 20% of the work to polish it off takes 80% of the effort. Most of the time by the time you have a good product there's no one left willing to pay for it to be polished off. The developers themselves also lose interest: After all they could be making a small fortune doing something similar elsewhere, but they do it under the open source model for a variety of reasons - obviously they're usually more motivated by interest than money.
...A clone of something slightly better, 10 years too late?
....those who can't work in marketing and legal and come up with licenses.
I find the classic definition niave to say the least.
Here's the thing - the design decisions you make will ultimately be tradeoffs. By designing one way or another you'll limit some abilities of the system to change in certain ways, while enhancing its ability to change in other ways.
I see it all the time in UI design. The customer wants something added or things to work in a particular way for a particular screen. But the whole system has been built around a GUI framework that works a different way. Suddenly that one simple change is VERY hard and time consuming.
Therefore it makes sense to FOLD THE DESIGN INTO THE REQUIREMENTS AND GET EXPLICIT CONSENT FROM STAKEHOLDERS THAT THESE TRADEOFFS ARE ACCEPTABLE.
This should be done throughout the development process. Users, Business Analysts etc. need to know what decisions you're making and you need to communicate them in easy language - this is not an easy thing to do.
A more technical example:
You can use a Builder pattern to translate a document from one format to another - this makes your system more flexible because you can add conversions to other forms of document more easily (and the requirements could change at some future point to require that.
But you've also increased the complexity and perhaps reduced performance of the conversion (which may be important if you suddenly have a change to requirements which stipulates that you have to convert lots of documents quickly).
Should you use the builder pattern? Perhaps, but either way you should let all those concerned know which way you've gone and what that means for them if they change their mind about requirements.
Take everything from the plug_ins folder and move them to the "optional" folder. You can still use any of them whenever you want, they just load on the fly.
I did this and tried searching help. Acrobat popped up a message that one of the plugins required for search was missing, and suggested a reinstall of Acrobat.
In all honesty, software doesn't need to be like this. Why the fsck would you build an awesome document reader then make it load like a dog by default, and remove essential features like bookmarking? Bloody retards!
AOL monitor. Seriously, don't they do background checks for this type of job. I understand not doing them for most jobs, but this type of job, you would think it would be par for the course.
RTFA. It's a short article. It explicitly states that they did do a criminal background check.
What I do is use my older work laptop. It still has some life in it, and is used as my day to day "throw around" PC for commuting to/from work, and for photography trips.
Advantages: Cost me nothing (was already a sunk cost), Large screen for editing as well as viewing. USB2 transfers. Decent though not generous battery life.
Disadvantages: Not as portable as a little photo tank, and you do have to wait for it to resume from standby.
I've found this particularly useful for zoo photography. My girlfriend and I will typically take 3000-5000 shots in one day.