Let me be absolutely clear about that. Nikon won't just charge you for servicing it, they flat out will not service it period; you'll get the camera back in the mail, still broken. Worse, if you're buying a camera used, you can't call Nikon to check if the serial number is grey market or official USA import. This is why used Nikon gear is almost worthless, and new Nikon gear costs a fortune.
Nikon customer service is an absolute joke.
I bought my D70 legitimately from a know camera retailer (specialist shop) at a premium. Nikon's repairer here in Sydney is Maxwell Australia. I had to send the camera in 3 times. First time they reset something. Second time they claimed no problem, and third time they held on to it without informing me they were waiting for parts. (To get them to recongise there was a problem with the camera I ended up taking a DVD of it failing for me).
The process took me over 3 months. Maxwell (and therefore by extension Nikon) were rude and arrogant, and refused to replace my camera the 3rd time around. IIn the end I got the retailer to replace it under threat of taking it further with the relevant consumer bodies.
I will never ever buy another Nikon product again.
I have to disagree with you on that one. 2 years of nothing but maths is only going to interest mathematicians. All those with some natural coding ability will get bored, or frustrated and tend to leave. The ones that remain will be the sort of people who try to build commercially "prooveable" systems in languages like Miranda.
Also there's an unfortunate tendancy that the vast majority of types that are REALLY good with math, have less social ability. You don't want people hammering out business specifications if they don't have the social skills to put the customer at ease, because that's when you end up with misunderstandings about what the system was meant to do in the first place.
More math would be a good thing to offer as an option, rather than a solid requirement.
If a 22-year-old with a CS degree is qualified to architect major projects all I can say is run hard and fast to get another degree, because the party's over.
Nahhh, the party has just begun! You can charge a fortune fixing up the mess that an inexperienced 22 year old with a CS degree builds.
Besides things have just gotten ridiculously complex in the last few years. You use to be able to build and prototype quickly. Now if you don't fill your projects with a miriad of buzzword technlogies, and add in as many layers to your code as Design Patterns make possible, it never gets built.
Many of those who go to single sex schools DO NOT get presented with an opportunity to socialise outside of school. Sounds like you were fortunate to have a well balanced and mature bunch of friends.
Send people to most cubicle infested business workplaces and watch the artifical lighting, crappy airconditioning and lack of motivation bring their IQ much lower.
It's called a distraction. Best thing you could do for your son is teach him how to deal with distractions, instead of removing them. Otherwise he'll never learn to cope with the larger distractions that life throws at you.
Classic example is co-ed vs single sex schooling. Single sex schooling gives a more focused environment. But when confronted with the opposite sex in the real world or in a higher learning institution the kids typically do worse because they're confronted with a very powerful distraction they've never learnt to cope with.
I didn't call you a liar, I said I didn't believe you. Figure out the philosophical conotations for yourself.
I wasn't talking about pink elephants or aliens. I state a fact that I did a certain set of things, and you say that its not true. You're either calling me a liar or you think I'm having hallucinations that I did it (or am so incompetent I didn't know what I'd done). Any way you look at it you're insulting me, and I sure as all hell will defend myself (with the written word). You don't know me from a bar of soap. Who are you to say that what I say isn't true!?
Trolling? Fucking grow up man. A troll is someone who carries out an argument for no reason other than to press someone else's buttons? Does someone that tried to compile their own freaking kernel sound like they've got time to spout crap just to push people's buttons? You know nothing about me or what I believe but you're willing to call me a troll and a liar, and your feelings are the ones hurt? ("Its just not funny anymore"). Grow up!
I am sick and tired of this shit. I bring up legitmate concerns, and because I'm not spouting garbage about how wonderful Open Source is, and how its nearly ready for prime time, I'm labeled a troll and a liar. You're damn right that's just not funny.
you came in here with a cock-and-bull story about how you cocked up compiling a custom kernel back in 199x and that by extension every Linux user would have similar problems nowadays just using mainstream hardware... get lost.
When did I say that every user would have similar problems to that particular problem? You want to misinterpret that's your problem. I've had plenty of other issues with Linux, and having to recompile a kernel was just one.
That's wonderful that you haven't rebooted, but what have you done with your computer lately? See you could be doing a lot and you could be doing nothing but reading email and whining about someone saying something you don't like on/. In any case the "it works for me for what I do, so you must be stupid if it doesn't work for you" attitude is a bunch of dismissive immature bullshit. Not everyone does the same things you do on their computer. Not everyone has the same hardware. Therefore you having a good experience doesn't mean everyone else is going to have the same good experience. Bloody amateur.
latest Ubuntu... absolutely NO problems with it at all.
What are you smoking man?!
No software is bug free so this statement makes you a clown. Also you're implying every previous version had serious problems.
A lot has happened to Linux since you alledgedly last pissed about with it.
Oh good, a lot has happened since this January has it? I installed and had to admin Debian at work. I could give you a tirade on what was wrong with that. So I thought, that's one distro, lets try another few. Fedora Core 2, Mandrake and SUSE. Of the lot I thought Mandrake was the least problematic and most polished but they all had their problems.
now piss off back to the windows.advocacy groups... people in there might believe your tales of Linux...
You may be interested in new invention. It's called democrasy, and its a few thousand years old. If you don't like what I have to say, that's tough, because you can't shut me up. Now pipe down jackass.
In both cases you're assuming everyone's doing their best or at least making a positive effort. With large systems of people you have people supporting competing goals that undermine each other, and sometimes worse. eg. war and violent crime.
Unfortunately I think there's already plenty of names for this. eg. Law of the jungle, survival of the fittest.
I think the quality of both proprietary and open source software is attrocious. The difference is you pay people good money for proprietary, and open source developers are often contributing to give something back to the community. It's ungracious at the least to fault someone who's giving you something for nothing. If you don't like what he's giving you don't use it. It's just as hard to look the other way when someone makes you pay for something and it doesn't work as advertised.
Again, you're demonstrating the attitude that's holding Linux back from widescale acceptance. Insult or fault the user if something goes wrong, and without even getting the full story.
I was actually running Redhat 6 and 7 at the time. I was stuck with them because the astronomy software I had to use did not support later editions. (Moving to 7 was risky enough, and required that I contact the software authors about a patch to one critical application).
So tell me, why should I be upgrading my OS to something so completely different that it breaks my apps every year? Give me one good reason for that one if I plan on using Linux rather than developing software for it. For that matter why should people have to change their code every few years because libraries etc break compatibility.
All well and good, but all other things being equal, if 30,000 open source developers code in an evolutionary manner with no direction or purpose, and 100,000 commercial programmers from a handful of well directed companies, who do you think will fall behind the times first?
Oh yeah, I love this one. "It works for me so if it didn't work for you you must be a troll and an idiot"...and "What you bought a computer and you tried to run Linux with hardware that wasn't on the supported list? Go buy real hardware". Lovely. Go tell that to each and every person you want to convince to use Linux.
You are the troll and you are the type of fool holding Linux back. You're just too thick to know it.
I think you're in serious need of a dictionary and some language lessons. I'll accept that gnat was an insult. Rude and arrogant were statements of fact, as was elitist and you did happily trash me and call me a liar with no provocation. Fool is arguably an insult, but considering that your splitting up of 6 and 7 arbitrarily and calling these items insults.
I'm not use to people who don't know me openly calling me a liar when I've done no such thing. Believe me I was being restrained. Look at the subject line for fsck sake "This smells like BS". What did you expect? A polite pat on the back for the character assisination? You wonder why I'd insult you?
The provocation was the lies. Even if your story is entirely true (this version it keeps changing) it was phrased in the original to delibertely lead someone to the wrong conclusion. That's called a lie.
Here's the thing. I did no such thing. I was not deliberately trying to lead anyone to any wrong conclusion. How you can claim for one moment to know what went through the head of a complete stranger (ie my head) and still think you've got a shred of credibility is beyond me. Whether you wish to believe me or not does not interest me as I'm well aware that I was not trying to deliberately lie to or mislead anyone, and you'll never have anything more than my word for that. You deserve each and every "insult" I dished out for repeatedly calling me a liar, and insisting that you somehow know these "lies" were deliberate.
Hoorah! Personal insults! Nice one, really assisted your point.
And calling me a liar is not a personal insult? I maintain that you are an ass.
For your information I have played with a handful of distros lately and was completely unimpressed. Things that should have worked just crashed left right and centre, and I had to look up obscure detail about hardware and software on the web to get past the problems. This was earlier THIS YEAR. I gave an example of a problem I had a fair while ago, but its not the only one I've had and the problems haven't gone away. Of course you'll just choose to call me incompetent or a liar, but its your choice and your problem if you don't want to face reality.
And I didn't feel the need to recompile the kernel. I had to do that to get my system working properly. I, like most users, will actually avoid doing things we don't have to.
Quite frankly you're an ass, and I don't give a damn that you don't believe me.
It was LPT support that I accidentally left out. Read my other posts.
I picked plenty to bash that was really. If you want to bury your head in the sand and sing 'la la la' at the top of your voice, go ahead and enjoy. Do me a favour and don't call me a liar while you're doing it, you arrogant fool.
I have actually come up against a few situations where I needed a custom kernel - mostly when I was doing my Astronomy masters. Granted that was 3 years back now.
The fact that its so easy to accidentally compile out LPT support, and that you have to pay attention to every minute detail just to be a freaking end user who gets to use standard hardware, is what I was complaining about.
You are a rude arrogant elitist fool, and I'm not wasting another moment on someone who'll happily trash someone and call them a liar with no provocation.
As it happened I did need to do a compile. Granted, this was about 5 years ago, but I had to do a compile to get a non-bloated kernel that supported something or other (I think it may have been video card but its too long ago for me to remember).
In any case this is typical of the whole RTFM phenomenon: One person says "You idiot, you didn't have to compile" and another says "What do you expect if you don't compile your own kernel".
A significant portion of the world's effort in open source goes towards Linux. OpenBSD and FreeBSD are not nearly as common. I tried FreeBSD once and got bitten by a driver support bug that ended up screwing up his hard disk on install. I didn't bother with it again.
Slashdot Mirror
Well imagine if you had to buy a CD player from a particular manufacturer every time you bought a particular CD. THAT's a better analogy!
Let me be absolutely clear about that. Nikon won't just charge you for servicing it, they flat out will not service it period; you'll get the camera back in the mail, still broken. Worse, if you're buying a camera used, you can't call Nikon to check if the serial number is grey market or official USA import. This is why used Nikon gear is almost worthless, and new Nikon gear costs a fortune.
Nikon customer service is an absolute joke.
I bought my D70 legitimately from a know camera retailer (specialist shop) at a premium. Nikon's repairer here in Sydney is Maxwell Australia. I had to send the camera in 3 times. First time they reset something. Second time they claimed no problem, and third time they held on to it without informing me they were waiting for parts. (To get them to recongise there was a problem with the camera I ended up taking a DVD of it failing for me).
The process took me over 3 months. Maxwell (and therefore by extension Nikon) were rude and arrogant, and refused to replace my camera the 3rd time around. IIn the end I got the retailer to replace it under threat of taking it further with the relevant consumer bodies.
I will never ever buy another Nikon product again.
Thanks for the lesson in argument and rhetoric.
You're right about one thing. We'll never agree. You aren't even listening to what I'm saying, let alone thinking about it.
I have to disagree with you on that one. 2 years of nothing but maths is only going to interest mathematicians. All those with some natural coding ability will get bored, or frustrated and tend to leave. The ones that remain will be the sort of people who try to build commercially "prooveable" systems in languages like Miranda.
Also there's an unfortunate tendancy that the vast majority of types that are REALLY good with math, have less social ability. You don't want people hammering out business specifications if they don't have the social skills to put the customer at ease, because that's when you end up with misunderstandings about what the system was meant to do in the first place.
More math would be a good thing to offer as an option, rather than a solid requirement.
If a 22-year-old with a CS degree is qualified to architect major projects all I can say is run hard and fast to get another degree, because the party's over.
Nahhh, the party has just begun! You can charge a fortune fixing up the mess that an inexperienced 22 year old with a CS degree builds.
Besides things have just gotten ridiculously complex in the last few years. You use to be able to build and prototype quickly. Now if you don't fill your projects with a miriad of buzzword technlogies, and add in as many layers to your code as Design Patterns make possible, it never gets built.
Many of those who go to single sex schools DO NOT get presented with an opportunity to socialise outside of school. Sounds like you were fortunate to have a well balanced and mature bunch of friends.
Send people to most cubicle infested business workplaces and watch the artifical lighting, crappy airconditioning and lack of motivation bring their IQ much lower.
It's called a distraction. Best thing you could do for your son is teach him how to deal with distractions, instead of removing them. Otherwise he'll never learn to cope with the larger distractions that life throws at you.
Classic example is co-ed vs single sex schooling. Single sex schooling gives a more focused environment. But when confronted with the opposite sex in the real world or in a higher learning institution the kids typically do worse because they're confronted with a very powerful distraction they've never learnt to cope with.
...and ignore the unpopped kernels. Probably be cheaper.
Real reason to get better quality is it tastes better.
I didn't call you a liar, I said I didn't believe you. Figure out the philosophical conotations for yourself.
I wasn't talking about pink elephants or aliens. I state a fact that I did a certain set of things, and you say that its not true. You're either calling me a liar or you think I'm having hallucinations that I did it (or am so incompetent I didn't know what I'd done). Any way you look at it you're insulting me, and I sure as all hell will defend myself (with the written word). You don't know me from a bar of soap. Who are you to say that what I say isn't true!?
Trolling? Fucking grow up man. A troll is someone who carries out an argument for no reason other than to press someone else's buttons? Does someone that tried to compile their own freaking kernel sound like they've got time to spout crap just to push people's buttons? You know nothing about me or what I believe but you're willing to call me a troll and a liar, and your feelings are the ones hurt? ("Its just not funny anymore"). Grow up!
I am sick and tired of this shit. I bring up legitmate concerns, and because I'm not spouting garbage about how wonderful Open Source is, and how its nearly ready for prime time, I'm labeled a troll and a liar. You're damn right that's just not funny.
you came in here with a cock-and-bull story about how you cocked up compiling a custom kernel back in 199x and that by extension every Linux user would have similar problems nowadays just using mainstream hardware... get lost.
/. In any case the "it works for me for what I do, so you must be stupid if it doesn't work for you" attitude is a bunch of dismissive immature bullshit. Not everyone does the same things you do on their computer. Not everyone has the same hardware. Therefore you having a good experience doesn't mean everyone else is going to have the same good experience. Bloody amateur.
When did I say that every user would have similar problems to that particular problem? You want to misinterpret that's your problem. I've had plenty of other issues with Linux, and having to recompile a kernel was just one.
18:44:37 up 15 days, 21:52, 5 users, load average: 0.31, 0.30, 0.29
That's wonderful that you haven't rebooted, but what have you done with your computer lately? See you could be doing a lot and you could be doing nothing but reading email and whining about someone saying something you don't like on
latest Ubuntu... absolutely NO problems with it at all.
What are you smoking man?!
No software is bug free so this statement makes you a clown. Also you're implying every previous version had serious problems.
A lot has happened to Linux since you alledgedly last pissed about with it.
Oh good, a lot has happened since this January has it? I installed and had to admin Debian at work. I could give you a tirade on what was wrong with that. So I thought, that's one distro, lets try another few. Fedora Core 2, Mandrake and SUSE. Of the lot I thought Mandrake was the least problematic and most polished but they all had their problems.
now piss off back to the windows.advocacy groups... people in there might believe your tales of Linux...
You may be interested in new invention. It's called democrasy, and its a few thousand years old. If you don't like what I have to say, that's tough, because you can't shut me up. Now pipe down jackass.
It's actually a little worse than that.
In both cases you're assuming everyone's doing their best or at least making a positive effort. With large systems of people you have people supporting competing goals that undermine each other, and sometimes worse. eg. war and violent crime.
Unfortunately I think there's already plenty of names for this. eg. Law of the jungle, survival of the fittest.
I think the quality of both proprietary and open source software is attrocious. The difference is you pay people good money for proprietary, and open source developers are often contributing to give something back to the community. It's ungracious at the least to fault someone who's giving you something for nothing. If you don't like what he's giving you don't use it. It's just as hard to look the other way when someone makes you pay for something and it doesn't work as advertised.
Again, you're demonstrating the attitude that's holding Linux back from widescale acceptance. Insult or fault the user if something goes wrong, and without even getting the full story.
I was actually running Redhat 6 and 7 at the time. I was stuck with them because the astronomy software I had to use did not support later editions. (Moving to 7 was risky enough, and required that I contact the software authors about a patch to one critical application).
So tell me, why should I be upgrading my OS to something so completely different that it breaks my apps every year? Give me one good reason for that one if I plan on using Linux rather than developing software for it. For that matter why should people have to change their code every few years because libraries etc break compatibility.
Do you know the meaning of that OR at the start of the first phrase?
I think I understood perfectly what you were trying to say.
You followed up with think the first and gave no alternative. ie you said you think I'm a liar.
Now, while we're being condescending, do you know how to use Or in a sentence? Hint: Sentences don't begin with Or.
All well and good, but all other things being equal, if 30,000 open source developers code in an evolutionary manner with no direction or purpose, and 100,000 commercial programmers from a handful of well directed companies, who do you think will fall behind the times first?
Oh yeah, I love this one. "It works for me so if it didn't work for you you must be a troll and an idiot"...and "What you bought a computer and you tried to run Linux with hardware that wasn't on the supported list? Go buy real hardware". Lovely. Go tell that to each and every person you want to convince to use Linux.
You are the troll and you are the type of fool holding Linux back. You're just too thick to know it.
I think you're in serious need of a dictionary and some language lessons. I'll accept that gnat was an insult. Rude and arrogant were statements of fact, as was elitist and you did happily trash me and call me a liar with no provocation. Fool is arguably an insult, but considering that your splitting up of 6 and 7 arbitrarily and calling these items insults.
I'm not use to people who don't know me openly calling me a liar when I've done no such thing. Believe me I was being restrained. Look at the subject line for fsck sake "This smells like BS". What did you expect? A polite pat on the back for the character assisination? You wonder why I'd insult you?
The provocation was the lies. Even if your story is entirely true (this version it keeps changing) it was phrased in the original to delibertely lead someone to the wrong conclusion. That's called a lie.
Here's the thing. I did no such thing. I was not deliberately trying to lead anyone to any wrong conclusion. How you can claim for one moment to know what went through the head of a complete stranger (ie my head) and still think you've got a shred of credibility is beyond me. Whether you wish to believe me or not does not interest me as I'm well aware that I was not trying to deliberately lie to or mislead anyone, and you'll never have anything more than my word for that. You deserve each and every "insult" I dished out for repeatedly calling me a liar, and insisting that you somehow know these "lies" were deliberate.
Hoorah! Personal insults! Nice one, really assisted your point.
And calling me a liar is not a personal insult? I maintain that you are an ass.
For your information I have played with a handful of distros lately and was completely unimpressed. Things that should have worked just crashed left right and centre, and I had to look up obscure detail about hardware and software on the web to get past the problems. This was earlier THIS YEAR. I gave an example of a problem I had a fair while ago, but its not the only one I've had and the problems haven't gone away. Of course you'll just choose to call me incompetent or a liar, but its your choice and your problem if you don't want to face reality.
And I didn't feel the need to recompile the kernel. I had to do that to get my system working properly. I, like most users, will actually avoid doing things we don't have to.
Quite frankly you're an ass, and I don't give a damn that you don't believe me.
It was LPT support that I accidentally left out. Read my other posts.
I picked plenty to bash that was really. If you want to bury your head in the sand and sing 'la la la' at the top of your voice, go ahead and enjoy. Do me a favour and don't call me a liar while you're doing it, you arrogant fool.
I have actually come up against a few situations where I needed a custom kernel - mostly when I was doing my Astronomy masters. Granted that was 3 years back now.
The fact that its so easy to accidentally compile out LPT support, and that you have to pay attention to every minute detail just to be a freaking end user who gets to use standard hardware, is what I was complaining about.
You are a rude arrogant elitist fool, and I'm not wasting another moment on someone who'll happily trash someone and call them a liar with no provocation.
As it happened I did need to do a compile. Granted, this was about 5 years ago, but I had to do a compile to get a non-bloated kernel that supported something or other (I think it may have been video card but its too long ago for me to remember).
In any case this is typical of the whole RTFM phenomenon: One person says "You idiot, you didn't have to compile" and another says "What do you expect if you don't compile your own kernel".
Another rude arrogant twit, who's happy to call someone a liar on a whim.
I did a configure and compile in a hurry and didn't include LPT support. See my other messages for more details.
I don't expect an apology because you have the social skill and grace of a gnat.
A significant portion of the world's effort in open source goes towards Linux. OpenBSD and FreeBSD are not nearly as common. I tried FreeBSD once and got bitten by a driver support bug that ended up screwing up his hard disk on install. I didn't bother with it again.