And I say I can use any ID I want. I also say whatever to your tiresome posts. You believe what you want. It doesn't matter to me. Why can't you stick to the topic which was the Mono announcement instead of making the discussion always about Java or me?
If you don't care so much about Java, then why does my user id bother you so much? The answer is you are a JAVA BIGOT. It's all you know. Its all you care about. Thus the religious definition fits.
Why do you need to go to every on eof my topics and reply BIGOT? Fuck you. You think you're morally better and I'm the bigot. You're bigoted aggainst Microsoft and.NET. Fuck you.
large user base that does use passport
>>>
No they don't. Most of the Microsoft community, including us, has totally rejected Passport. It doesn't stop us from developing and deploying.NET applications.
You are over-reacting and wrong. I have never said in any of my posts that anyone should use C#. I believe firmly that someone should use whatever language is apporpriate for the job. I know and use X86 Assembly, Itanium Assembly, Z80 Assembly, VAX Assembly, C, C++, Basic, VB, Fortran, Java, C#, GTK, GCC, QT, Smalltalk, and more. I use C++ and C# on a daily basis. I choose not to use Java. This does not make me a bigot in any way. We all have the freedom to choose whatever language we want to. Its the Java religion people who sound like Bigots to me when they say one should only use Java. I choose not to use Java because it doesn't meet my needs. It probably meets yours and you should use it. I have no problem with that. I think I am unfairly being labeled a bigot for no reason. I looked at every one of my posts and don't see one single reference to saying use C#. I think.NET has got some wonderful things to offer the Linux community. The Xiamin (spelling?) folks seem to agree. If you don't that is perfectly fine. Just ignore it but don't attack me as a bigot for something that is working for me.
I'm sorry but you are just not correct. We have worked with.NET for over a year and I think we know it better than you. There is absolutely no requirement ever to use Pasport to use.NET. There are many kinds of applications that you can build that do not require Single Signon (SRO) authentication, which is ALL Passport does. Period. You have read too many sentionalized crap articles in the trade press from people who do NOT understand what.NET is and who are used to trying to stir people up. The articles all fail to mention that there are FOUR other kinds of authentication in ASP.NET besides Passport and you never have to use Passport. You can stick with simple Challenge and Response. And you can build and deply plenty of.NET apps that don't even go over the Internet. There is no Passport anywhere in.NET except in a very limited case and if you choose it.
Why are you attacking me and calling me a bigot? Just because I don't like Java? I thought people in this world had a choice of languages and if I don't want to use Java, I just won't. Why am I a bigot for that? And why are you so angry about this? What is upsetting you so much to attack like this? I have used all the same languages as you list there too and I simply pick the best language for the job. Its not a contest or poularity contest. They're just tools. As to game development, I think that's cool. You misunderstood me. What I meant is like shipping apps, I didn't mean IT stuff. I have worked on teams that have shipped Kurzweil AI's Voice Xpress, NuMega's Bounds Checker and many more and Digita's VMS. I have used many languages. I don't see how that makes me a bigot. I see a bigot as someone who only uses one language and won't even consider another. I am not a bigot for choosing C++ over Java or whatever. It's my choice and what the job requires.
Its nice how you hide behind the Coward label and sling meaningless attacks. So, I am interested, since you call me a bigot, what other computer languages other than Java do you use and what production systems have you built?
And you are typical of the hate-mongers of Slashdot that have the reputation of being 12 year old flamers all over the Internet. You could have been nice to a newcomer but no.
As to software, I have been doing it for 22 years in almost every language but no I don't do HTML. I leave that to the 12 year olds.
I'm sorry. I used plenty of spaces. I don't know how to format but I'm willing to learn if you point me to the right place.
As to putting systems into production, I feel a lot safer and better than the Java systems I have put into production. I mean it works. We have web services retrieving data out of databases and making it available via SOAP to other parts of the system. I don't see what the problem is.
It isn't FUD. It's reality. I tried various Java projects and in each case I had to sabstainly change my Java code to get it to work on multiple platforms. Its not what people told me. Its my direct experience. The only FUD is that coming from Sun.
.NET is got nothing to do with Windows. Before you reply like this, you should at least research the technology..NET is a technology for enabling distributed objects of functioanlity to operate and communicate on the web, in a platform independent manner. It has nothing to do with Windows. Period. Its all about connecting pieces and stringing together web services. not about writing windows apps.
Let's face it,.NET is not a very impressive technology... RPC over HTTPD using XML running what is basically Java (sorry, VM based platform-independent byte code is what Java IS) is not a good foundation to build all of your software on...
>>>>
Even if that was all.NET was, it would be inovative and far suprior to Java's approach. And that is because the web services are standards based. Microsoft has wisely abandoned propreitary mechanisms like DCOM and gone completly over to full standards like XML and SOAP. Ands IBM and over 200 other companies including Sun (forced to by everyone else) are behind SOAP. These are open standards and anyone can play. We have developers here at work using Java and Apache SOAP talking to our.NET C# Web Services.
That's right. Just trying doing it in production and you will quickly find out it is nothing other than Sun propoganda. Try doing with any JVM of your choice. I was a Java developer for 3 years and I have *never* seen WORA *anywheer* with Borland, Sun, or Visual Cafe. Period.
Your reply is typical Slashdot Anti-Microsoft rubbish - to sell more processors, etc
>>.NET web services most certainly are RPC over >>HTTPD using XML.
You said that was all.NET was. WEb Services are a very small part of.NET.
>Sorry I didn't mention the multi-language facet. >So you can create byte code from multiple >languages. The underlying VM concept is still >dentical to Java (and there are compilers to
Not it's not the same! Java compiles to bytecode..NET compiles to IL which is then JIT BEFORE its used automatically and cached. And in case you haven't been aeound for a while, stop giving Java the credit for VMs. I was using VMs with LISP in the 70's and then with USCD Pascal. There is *nothing* new in Java. Period.
>translate from other languages to Jave byte >codes, but I digress). I code in C, C++, Java, >Perl, and PHP and I use the one that is >appropriate for the job. I don't see how giving >all languages the weaknesses of a byte code based implementation accomplishes anything... >Those weeknesses make it unsuitable to build >large-scale high-performance applications. >Period.
Oh really? My team just built and put into production two very large.NET products that manage and control thousands of servers. You have no idea what you are talking about. Java is unsuitable but.NET has produced fast executables. You ask what the multi-language and such accomplishes? It gives us infrastructure that we don't have to build..NET gives us the platform services in a platform-independent manner like encryption, security, memory managment, web services, etc and we can access it from any language not the "God chosen language." This means I can hire programmers more easily to develop on my projects.
We built two large products in 2 months. The Java team still has nothing working.
This is not insightful and it is just plain wrong..NET is NOT RPC over HTTPD using XML. And it is certainly is NOT Java (thank God)..NET is a full platform for writing and running applications. What does that mean? It means that it contains a Common Language Runtime (CLR) that acts like a VM - And NO Java did not invent VMs!! But there is much more than Java. The CLR uses a Common Type System (CTS) such that all managed languages can work in a managed environment and also one can declare an object in Perl and call it from Smalltalk and then call the whole thing from C#. This is an important development for developers because it preserves their language investment. Unlike the stupidity of Sun and Java which says all other languages are crap and legacy, you can keep using your language and take benefit of all the features. Another feature is the class library (BCL) that contains classes for just about everything. These classes are not tied to one language. They work with all languages - there are 21 native.NET languages at last count.
Subject: RE: [DOTNET] Join us in implementing an Open Source.NET framework > I had some strong feelings running through me after seeing the movie > "Antitrust" Boy tell me about it. I had a range of strong feelings, most of which centered on my having wasted two hours of my life on that piece of crap. Every time a coder walked up to another they'd point to what was maybe 25 lines of code on the screen and say "wow, that's cool what you're doing there". Whatever. The whole good girl / bad girl reversal didn't make sense - why would the bad girl be willing to help Our Hero build it all the way to the point to sabotage the network? It was a very stupid movie - understandable that it upset you... It was the stupidest thing I have ever seen. I mean they have "Microsoft" able to spy on *every* single open source programmer (sic) and not able to detect that the main character, just by typing a few Linux commands!!, can get access to all their plans, get right into the "spying" system in 10 seconds! And then that "Microsoft" would murder open source programmers to get their code. Of course, one could just forget it and chalk it up to the piece of crap that it is, but when I saw it had been sponsored by Sun Microsystems, and featured the GNOME (Miguel) folks and Jon "Maddog" Hall, it was too much. Its like they are declaring war on us developers who don't believe in their way and then they have the gall to come here asking for help after doing a first class defamation of a company (for which they should be sued - I would ). I mean, using Building 21 constantly and so forth and using Bill's sayings. It was too obvious and stupid. I am sorry for the use of my language, not my feelings. These people don't play nice. They don't compete. They whine to the Justice department. They try to turn this software industry into a hippie socialist environment where, in shades of 1967, everything is free, man. Nothing is free. We are paying for those open source developers. Their electricity and their computers have to be paid by someone. And most of them are either in government agencies (our tax dollars) or universities (again our dollars). But it's free, man. No it isn't. It's a meaningless mantra. Not only are they using our tax dollars, but they are also sapping countries all over the world, using up their precious resources and developing "free" software on company's resources. I don't want the very exciting industry of software development, which I have participated in for 22 years, become a drab anti-competitive industry where all we do is service and customizations. And I think once people realize the implications, they won't either. Without competition, the software industry does *not* happen. Period. Many of us want to continue earning a living making great software. Visit me at http://pages.scifi.com/CyberPunk/net.html
There is plenty of.NET code out there. My company has built two very large Enterprise products (not demos) and we are going into production with them next month. Judging by all the companies that are there at the labs when I go to Redmond, I would say that there are plenty of.NET applications going live.
How should it be a service pack? Tell me about the hours you spent with it to reach that conclusion? None? If you had, you would see hundreds of additions, not of which the least are a new user interface, a whole new 64 bit Itanium OS, built-in CD burning, a whole new COM+, the.NET runtime and much more.
Slashdot Mirror
They are when they attack like you and hide behind it. We need to have a serious coversation offline.
And I say I can use any ID I want. I also say whatever to your tiresome posts. You believe what you want. It doesn't matter to me. Why can't you stick to the topic which was the Mono announcement instead of making the discussion always about Java or me?
And you would post your name and not hide behind Anoymous Coward if you weren't such a pussy
If you don't care so much about Java, then why does my user id bother you so much? The answer is you are a JAVA BIGOT. It's all you know. Its all you care about. Thus the religious definition fits.
Why do you need to go to every on eof my topics and reply BIGOT? Fuck you. You think you're morally better and I'm the bigot. You're bigoted aggainst Microsoft and .NET. Fuck you.
large user base that does use passport >>> No they don't. Most of the Microsoft community, including us, has totally rejected Passport. It doesn't stop us from developing and deploying .NET applications.
You are over-reacting and wrong. I have never said in any of my posts that anyone should use C#. I believe firmly that someone should use whatever language is apporpriate for the job. I know and use X86 Assembly, Itanium Assembly, Z80 Assembly, VAX Assembly, C, C++, Basic, VB, Fortran, Java, C#, GTK, GCC, QT, Smalltalk, and more. I use C++ and C# on a daily basis. I choose not to use Java. This does not make me a bigot in any way. We all have the freedom to choose whatever language we want to. Its the Java religion people who sound like Bigots to me when they say one should only use Java. I choose not to use Java because it doesn't meet my needs. It probably meets yours and you should use it. I have no problem with that. I think I am unfairly being labeled a bigot for no reason. I looked at every one of my posts and don't see one single reference to saying use C#. I think .NET has got some wonderful things to offer the Linux community. The Xiamin (spelling?) folks seem to agree. If you don't that is perfectly fine. Just ignore it but don't attack me as a bigot for something that is working for me.
I'm sorry but you are just not correct. We have worked with .NET for over a year and I think we know it better than you. There is absolutely no requirement ever to use Pasport to use .NET. There are many kinds of applications that you can build that do not require Single Signon (SRO) authentication, which is ALL Passport does. Period. You have read too many sentionalized crap articles in the trade press from people who do NOT understand what .NET is and who are used to trying to stir people up. The articles all fail to mention that there are FOUR other kinds of authentication in ASP.NET besides Passport and you never have to use Passport. You can stick with simple Challenge and Response. And you can build and deply plenty of .NET apps that don't even go over the Internet. There is no Passport anywhere in .NET except in a very limited case and if you choose it.
Why are you attacking me and calling me a bigot? Just because I don't like Java? I thought people in this world had a choice of languages and if I don't want to use Java, I just won't. Why am I a bigot for that? And why are you so angry about this? What is upsetting you so much to attack like this? I have used all the same languages as you list there too and I simply pick the best language for the job. Its not a contest or poularity contest. They're just tools. As to game development, I think that's cool. You misunderstood me. What I meant is like shipping apps, I didn't mean IT stuff. I have worked on teams that have shipped Kurzweil AI's Voice Xpress, NuMega's Bounds Checker and many more and Digita's VMS. I have used many languages. I don't see how that makes me a bigot. I see a bigot as someone who only uses one language and won't even consider another. I am not a bigot for choosing C++ over Java or whatever. It's my choice and what the job requires.
Its nice how you hide behind the Coward label and sling meaningless attacks. So, I am interested, since you call me a bigot, what other computer languages other than Java do you use and what production systems have you built?
We don't use Passport at all and won't. You don't have to use Passport to use .NET. Go study somemore.
No its about writing software I can sell.
And you figured that out how? Did you give me a programming test? Look at my code? Gosh, its like talking to 12 year olds here - people are right.
And you are typical of the hate-mongers of Slashdot that have the reputation of being 12 year old flamers all over the Internet. You could have been nice to a newcomer but no. As to software, I have been doing it for 22 years in almost every language but no I don't do HTML. I leave that to the 12 year olds.
I'm sorry. I used plenty of spaces. I don't know how to format but I'm willing to learn if you point me to the right place. As to putting systems into production, I feel a lot safer and better than the Java systems I have put into production. I mean it works. We have web services retrieving data out of databases and making it available via SOAP to other parts of the system. I don't see what the problem is.
It isn't FUD. It's reality. I tried various Java projects and in each case I had to sabstainly change my Java code to get it to work on multiple platforms. Its not what people told me. Its my direct experience. The only FUD is that coming from Sun.
.NET is got nothing to do with Windows. Before you reply like this, you should at least research the technology. .NET is a technology for enabling distributed objects of functioanlity to operate and communicate on the web, in a platform independent manner. It has nothing to do with Windows. Period. Its all about connecting pieces and stringing together web services. not about writing windows apps.
Let's face it, .NET is not a very impressive technology... RPC over HTTPD using XML running what is basically Java (sorry, VM based platform-independent byte code is what Java IS) is not a good foundation to build all of your software on...
>>>>
Even if that was all .NET was, it would be inovative and far suprior to Java's approach. And that is because the web services are standards based. Microsoft has wisely abandoned propreitary mechanisms like DCOM and gone completly over to full standards like XML and SOAP. Ands IBM and over 200 other companies including Sun (forced to by everyone else) are behind SOAP. These are open standards and anyone can play. We have developers here at work using Java and Apache SOAP talking to our .NET C# Web Services.
That's right. Just trying doing it in production and you will quickly find out it is nothing other than Sun propoganda. Try doing with any JVM of your choice. I was a Java developer for 3 years and I have *never* seen WORA *anywheer* with Borland, Sun, or Visual Cafe. Period.
Your reply is typical Slashdot Anti-Microsoft rubbish - to sell more processors, etc >>.NET web services most certainly are RPC over >>HTTPD using XML. You said that was all .NET was. WEb Services are a very small part of .NET.
>Sorry I didn't mention the multi-language facet. >So you can create byte code from multiple >languages. The underlying VM concept is still >dentical to Java (and there are compilers to
Not it's not the same! Java compiles to bytecode. .NET compiles to IL which is then JIT BEFORE its used automatically and cached. And in case you haven't been aeound for a while, stop giving Java the credit for VMs. I was using VMs with LISP in the 70's and then with USCD Pascal. There is *nothing* new in Java. Period.
>translate from other languages to Jave byte >codes, but I digress). I code in C, C++, Java, >Perl, and PHP and I use the one that is >appropriate for the job. I don't see how giving >all languages the weaknesses of a byte code based implementation accomplishes anything... >Those weeknesses make it unsuitable to build >large-scale high-performance applications. >Period.
Oh really? My team just built and put into production two very large .NET products that manage and control thousands of servers. You have no idea what you are talking about. Java is unsuitable but .NET has produced fast executables. You ask what the multi-language and such accomplishes? It gives us infrastructure that we don't have to build. .NET gives us the platform services in a platform-independent manner like encryption, security, memory managment, web services, etc and we can access it from any language not the "God chosen language." This means I can hire programmers more easily to develop on my projects.
We built two large products in 2 months. The Java team still has nothing working.
This is not insightful and it is just plain wrong. .NET is NOT RPC over HTTPD using XML. And it is certainly is NOT Java (thank God). .NET is a full platform for writing and running applications. What does that mean? It means that it contains a Common Language Runtime (CLR) that acts like a VM - And NO Java did not invent VMs!! But there is much more than Java. The CLR uses a Common Type System (CTS) such that all managed languages can work in a managed environment and also one can declare an object in Perl and call it from Smalltalk and then call the whole thing from C#. This is an important development for developers because it preserves their language investment. Unlike the stupidity of Sun and Java which says all other languages are crap and legacy, you can keep using your language and take benefit of all the features. Another feature is the class library (BCL) that contains classes for just about everything. These classes are not tied to one language. They work with all languages - there are 21 native .NET languages at last count.
Subject: RE: [DOTNET] Join us in implementing an Open Source .NET framework > I had some strong feelings running through me after seeing the movie > "Antitrust" Boy tell me about it. I had a range of strong feelings, most of which centered on my having wasted two hours of my life on that piece of crap. Every time a coder walked up to another they'd point to what was maybe 25 lines of code on the screen and say "wow, that's cool what you're doing there". Whatever. The whole good girl / bad girl reversal didn't make sense - why would the bad girl be willing to help Our Hero build it all the way to the point to sabotage the network? It was a very stupid movie - understandable that it upset you... It was the stupidest thing I have ever seen. I mean they have "Microsoft" able to spy on *every* single open source programmer (sic) and not able to detect that the main character, just by typing a few Linux commands!!, can get access to all their plans, get right into the "spying" system in 10 seconds! And then that "Microsoft" would murder open source programmers to get their code. Of course, one could just forget it and chalk it up to the piece of crap that it is, but when I saw it had been sponsored by Sun Microsystems, and featured the GNOME (Miguel) folks and Jon "Maddog" Hall, it was too much. Its like they are declaring war on us developers who don't believe in their way and then they have the gall to come here asking for help after doing a first class defamation of a company (for which they should be sued - I would ). I mean, using Building 21 constantly and so forth and using Bill's sayings. It was too obvious and stupid. I am sorry for the use of my language, not my feelings. These people don't play nice. They don't compete. They whine to the Justice department. They try to turn this software industry into a hippie socialist environment where, in shades of 1967, everything is free, man. Nothing is free. We are paying for those open source developers. Their electricity and their computers have to be paid by someone. And most of them are either in government agencies (our tax dollars) or universities (again our dollars). But it's free, man. No it isn't. It's a meaningless mantra. Not only are they using our tax dollars, but they are also sapping countries all over the world, using up their precious resources and developing "free" software on company's resources. I don't want the very exciting industry of software development, which I have participated in for 22 years, become a drab anti-competitive industry where all we do is service and customizations. And I think once people realize the implications, they won't either. Without competition, the software industry does *not* happen. Period. Many of us want to continue earning a living making great software. Visit me at http://pages.scifi.com/CyberPunk/net.html
No, that was VALinux. Or was it one of the other many Linux casualities?
There is plenty of .NET code out there. My company has built two very large Enterprise products (not demos) and we are going into production with them next month. Judging by all the companies that are there at the labs when I go to Redmond, I would say that there are plenty of .NET applications going live.
How should it be a service pack? Tell me about the hours you spent with it to reach that conclusion? None? If you had, you would see hundreds of additions, not of which the least are a new user interface, a whole new 64 bit Itanium OS, built-in CD burning, a whole new COM+, the .NET runtime and much more.