Heh, disappearance of religion coincided with slow degeneration of this empire.
Hardly an example I was asking for.
"contemporary Europe and Japan"
Too early to pass any judgment on that one.
"Most Arab nations, insofar as they were far more secular 50 to 100 years ago than they are today"
Having regime proclaiming to be religious-based has nothing to do with religion itself.
I am not talking about organized or government sponsored religion but about people following set of moral codes.
"Historically, religion has been a source of division within our society. "
Oh so your claim is that would be much better of if religion were to disappear completely?
Show me one example of society that benefited from lack of religion.
"You may not realize that two thirds of Americans support federal funding of stem cell research "
So did Bush with specific limitation.
Frankly, I am personally for this research I just do not think it is correct to dismiss any opposition to it as a purely dogmatically , close-minded "religious right".
People truly do fear consequences of science gone wrong.
I am not practicing Christian but I do recognize value of organized religion ( as a glue for a society.)
As much as you would like you cannot operate in a moral vacuum, especially when being paid by our tax money.
"In no case should the laws of this country be derived from any religion. "
But they have to be derived from something and if majority of citizens opt for values based on their religious beliefs there is NOTHING wrong with that. They can do it because it is their country.
The bottom line: nobody is asking you to stop doing what you are doing but to simply to consider the fact that if you are being founded by citizens of this country and consequently you have to adhere to rules set by them.
"You may recall that the first settlers of this land came here to escape state "
Yes, they did but they and their ancestors never hesitated to include references to God in the very constitution you are referring to.
Show me a single sentence where it says in constitution that elected officials cannot be influenced by their beliefs.
This thing has been taken to extreme in the last 20 years to the point where anything even remotely related to religion is being prohibited by our government.
It is basically opposite of "endorsement of religion" - both of which are prohibited by our constitution.
There are many people in this country who do object to this sort of research.
Bush views on this subject were known during last election and since there was enough people to get him elected there are just as many people who do object to this research.
They do pay taxes and therefore have a right to decide how that money will be spent.
Remember, we are talking about federally founded research.
If you have your own money then you are free to do whatever you want just do not be upset if I refuse to found your research.
Again, you are talking about public funds...
"This decision clearly violates the principle of separation of church and state. "
Well, you do live in predominantly Christian society and therefore you will be subjected to their version of morality.
There is no escape from it because US is what it is because of its Christian heritage.
If you do object to this decision because it is not in line with your social or religious beliefs then so what?
If we were to account for every possible set of social values we would end up with no laws whatsoever because I am sure there would be people offended by the notion that murder is something that people should not do.
There is no such thing like "universal morality" and therefore you will be subjected to some version of it.
Oh, Belgian fuck has something to say about US president.
Face it. You can fuck yourself over five times and still most people won't even give a fuck if your president ( or whoever rules there) is a total lunatic. It simply does not matter.
Sooner or later you will become part of France or Germany as it was in the past.
Yours is strictly seasonal country and just waiting for another successful ( that is misnomer, there can be NO unsuccessful invasions of this pussy land of yours) German invasion.
All I ever did was to use the same type of language as you did in your post.
Now it seems offending when it is directeed at you...
Funny, how that works.
"What would have to be true in order for this to be considered a rational decision?"
Only as viewed by you.
Unless you are never mistaken and your predictions always turn out to be on the money, you are just another guy with just another point of view.
Remember, this is not a scientific question but a moral one. We know that this sort of research can be very useful; we just don't know how far we can go playing with this stuff before we end up venturing into Mengele territory.
"They consume few manufactured goods, thus very few suppliers are wholly dependant on Microsoft as a customer for their survival. "
Are you nuts ?
There is a HUGE industry build around MS software ( Office, VB, MSCE)
Dude, you got to take a break from your favourite shell and get out more.
"Um, exactly the problem...[abuse of monopoly position]"
I want them to include as much as possible so I don't have to go out and spend additional money.
I do not feel cheated by MS, why do you insist on claiming that it hurts me?
"Obviously affordable is a relative term...let's compare with linux"
Comparing OS that lets people run thousands of professional software application with half-finished OS which at most can offer bunch of perpetual-beta apps with no support is NOT fair.
As far as I remember, ABC drugs were developed by privately founded companies and I would think that your hope should lay with them and not the government.
Before ABC, there was nothing else...
And who are you to definitely answer this question?
See Mengele did not think of these humans as a real or equal beings, same line of thought just difference in degree.
WTF are you talking about ?
His position on that issue was known for a long time.
He got elected running with these sort of views so he has mandate to do what he did.
Slashdot Mirror
"The Roman Empire. "
Heh, disappearance of religion coincided with slow degeneration of this empire.
Hardly an example I was asking for.
"contemporary Europe and Japan"
Too early to pass any judgment on that one.
"Most Arab nations, insofar as they were far more secular 50 to 100 years ago than they are today"
Having regime proclaiming to be religious-based has nothing to do with religion itself.
I am not talking about organized or government sponsored religion but about people following set of moral codes.
"Historically, religion has been a source of division within our society. "
Oh so your claim is that would be much better of if religion were to disappear completely?
Show me one example of society that benefited from lack of religion.
"You may not realize that two thirds of Americans support federal funding of stem cell research "
So did Bush with specific limitation.
Frankly, I am personally for this research I just do not think it is correct to dismiss any opposition to it as a purely dogmatically , close-minded "religious right".
People truly do fear consequences of science gone wrong.
I am not practicing Christian but I do recognize value of organized religion ( as a glue for a society.)
As much as you would like you cannot operate in a moral vacuum, especially when being paid by our tax money.
"In no case should the laws of this country be derived from any religion. "
But they have to be derived from something and if majority of citizens opt for values based on their religious beliefs there is NOTHING wrong with that. They can do it because it is their country.
The bottom line: nobody is asking you to stop doing what you are doing but to simply to consider the fact that if you are being founded by citizens of this country and consequently you have to adhere to rules set by them.
"You may recall that the first settlers of this land came here to escape state "
Yes, they did but they and their ancestors never hesitated to include references to God in the very constitution you are referring to.
Show me a single sentence where it says in constitution that elected officials cannot be influenced by their beliefs.
This thing has been taken to extreme in the last 20 years to the point where anything even remotely related to religion is being prohibited by our government.
It is basically opposite of "endorsement of religion" - both of which are prohibited by our constitution.
test test
There are many people in this country who do object to this sort of research. ...
Bush views on this subject were known during last election and since there was enough people to get him elected there are just as many people who do object to this research.
They do pay taxes and therefore have a right to decide how that money will be spent.
Remember, we are talking about federally founded research.
If you have your own money then you are free to do whatever you want just do not be upset if I refuse to found your research.
Again, you are talking about public funds
Hey,what can I say ....
follow your own advice.
"This decision clearly violates the principle of separation of church and state. "
Well, you do live in predominantly Christian society and therefore you will be subjected to their version of morality.
There is no escape from it because US is what it is because of its Christian heritage.
If you do object to this decision because it is not in line with your social or religious beliefs then so what?
If we were to account for every possible set of social values we would end up with no laws whatsoever because I am sure there would be people offended by the notion that murder is something that people should not do.
There is no such thing like "universal morality" and therefore you will be subjected to some version of it.
Oh, Belgian fuck has something to say about US president.
Face it. You can fuck yourself over five times and still most people won't even give a fuck if your president ( or whoever rules there) is a total lunatic. It simply does not matter.
Sooner or later you will become part of France or Germany as it was in the past.
Yours is strictly seasonal country and just waiting for another successful ( that is misnomer, there can be NO unsuccessful invasions of this pussy land of yours) German invasion.
Dude, you should either stop posting or stop trying to be funny.
Either will do you good.
All I ever did was to use the same type of language as you did in your post. ...
Now it seems offending when it is directeed at you
Funny, how that works.
"I wonder if Boeing gained any rights to the cheap technology developed by these government employees using this "grant" money?
"
You would rather have government hold on to this new stuff ?
"You don't say "It's time for the human race to enter the solar system" if we LIVE in it!"
Oh please, have you ever said something that did not exactly make sense ?
If you did then you are stupid asshole in every way.
"I think he is _the_ most stupid president ever. "
I think you are _THE_ most stupid poster ever.
"What would have to be true in order for this to be considered a rational decision?"
Only as viewed by you.
Unless you are never mistaken and your predictions always turn out to be on the money, you are just another guy with just another point of view.
Remember, this is not a scientific question but a moral one. We know that this sort of research can be very useful; we just don't know how far we can go playing with this stuff before we end up venturing into Mengele territory.
Good thing you have no powers.
"They consume few manufactured goods, thus very few suppliers are wholly dependant on Microsoft as a customer for their survival. "
Are you nuts ?
There is a HUGE industry build around MS software ( Office, VB, MSCE)
Dude, you got to take a break from your favourite shell and get out more.
"Um, exactly the problem...[abuse of monopoly position]"
I want them to include as much as possible so I don't have to go out and spend additional money.
I do not feel cheated by MS, why do you insist on claiming that it hurts me?
"Obviously affordable is a relative term...let's compare with linux"
Comparing OS that lets people run thousands of professional software application with half-finished OS which at most can offer bunch of perpetual-beta apps with no support is NOT fair.
As far as I remember, ABC drugs were developed by privately founded companies and I would think that your hope should lay with them and not the government. ...
Before ABC, there was nothing else
"Why does it sounds like the USA
is the start and end to this sort
of research?"
Well, it is true. Not always but often enough to warrant generalization like that.
If it was supposed to be joke .... it did not work.
Good think nobody gives a fuck about your personal fetishes.
"the hands of the scientists"
These biotech gians DO employ scientists, often the best in their field.
And who are you to definitely answer this question?
See Mengele did not think of these humans as a real or equal beings, same line of thought just difference in degree.
Another attempt at joke .... and frutless again.
"of religious based persecution ?? "
WTF are you talking about ?
His position on that issue was known for a long time.
He got elected running with these sort of views so he has mandate to do what he did.