More specifically, the hardcore benchmarkers market. Sorry to dissapoint, but no hardcore gamer would waste that much money on a video card if they could pick one up for a quarter of the price that worked just as well with all the games they play right now.
(Written by a hardcore gamer sitting on an old Geforce 4 MX 460 -- games run just fine, why upgrade?)
The point is that ATI had a pretty tenuous justification (that they were optimizing for Quake 3 as it's the engine behind a large number of games), but if this is the case then nvidia has none.
Only if they didn't understand what they were doing, which I doubt. Since there aren't many quake-based games that are named quake.exe, and at the time, Quake 3 was an aging game used mainly for benchmarks, and the stunning similarity between the two, you're just searching for a way to justify it.
This case certainly isn't black and white. If you recall, 3dmark and nvidia are kind of in this PR war right now because 3dmark uses general shader code, which the ATI specifically handles better, whereas the nvidia handles specially optimized shader code quicker. Considering that either card is made for these fictional "next generation games" which the gaming media has been warning us of since the days of the Geforce 3, I've decided that it doesn't really matter either way. My old Geforce 4 MX is STILL chugging the newest games away just fine, despite all the doomsayers prophecies, and the gaming media is still warning us about these mythical games that are supposedly just around the corner, so I think I'll hold off my next video card purchace somewhat.
You might want to look into Win2k before XP. it's a lot nicer for most uses, and while it its a bit slower in some things, makes up for it by being the most stable windows to date.
The voodoo 3 was basically the equivilant to an SLI'd voodoo2, which had existed for years prior. This is confirmed by looking at most benchmarks between the two, which show the SLI setup running neck and neck with the voodoo3. The latter wasn't really a joke, but it wasn't the leader in the face of the fact that the TNT2 ultras were showing up around the same time, which were just as fast as the 3dfx cards, but had better image quality and features.
I haven't decided what my next card will be next. I was dissapointed by MSIs GF460-VTP because I have had so many problems getting all the drivers to work at once(TV-out in Win2k is hopelessly blitzed), and if I could get a working VIVO card for win2k using a later radeon chipset, I might consider switching, but only time will tell.
I think you've rendered your own point moot--they're not playing "Kill my freind with the gun", they're playing cops and robbers. And the arguement being made isn't that a naieve child will accidently kill someone, it's that children will gain a desire to kill from video games, and those with the means to do it will take the opportunity. It's argued not that the mere act of pointing a gun, but the act of killing itself, will become so desensitized in many childrens minds, that simply by clicking that mouse button in a game, they invariably open their minds to the possibility of premeditated homocide as a real and desirable option. I think that's such a laughable idea, and is an insult to the integrity of children and their parents everywhere. Certainly, a tragic few, who would likely have chosen suicide if the idea of genocide hadn't presented itself, would have been saved from the idea if there was no violent video games, but all cases lead to tragedy, and to restrict works merely because of the capabilities of a fractured mind is reckless and cowardly.
but here, we *are* dealing with black and white and clear cut. Kill or don't kill. We're not talking about subtle political issues, we're talking about questions like "well, duke nukem killed a bunch of aliens...can I kill my 5th grade class", or in this case, "well, anonymous henchman kills cops in GTAIII, I WANT TO TRY IT TOO!". GTAIII is very well designed to deter violence, by subtly showing it's folly(or did anyone manage to kill all the cops, army units, special forces and others in the city?).
Actually, the teenage gamer is mostly a myth, if sales numbers are to be believed. A recent survey done showed that 99% of games are bought by people over the age of majority. Makes sense, seeing as most kids don't really have the money for good PCs, let alone game libraries. I can honestly say that since I graduated high school, I've bought 100x the games I did during high school, so there is definitely a lot of truth tho this statistic, if my own numbers are to be believed.
What is this -- soviet russia? Nobody should have to play diplomatic games like that for a product sold primarily to 99% to people over 19. We have the ESRB, what do you want?
Shocking factoid: Companies don't make video games -- people do. It's kind of a strange concept, but companies and corporations are just legal constructs, the latter basically meant to limit liability of stockholders.
As for the Toys R Us stuff, I've never seen a paticularly violent video game on display at a kids game shop. Lots of Nintendo stuff though. Dreamcast too, back when it was out. Maybe your local store just has a phenomenally stupid management?
fuck. FUCK. I knew the Americans were being constantly lied to through their news media, but I had no idea how far it had gotten. Their news is about as reliable as the Iraqi information minister!
Another example.. if a child's parents prevent him from reading neo-nazi, right extremist propaganda, isn't it a violation of his constitional rights? Yes - but they are also protecting his *human* rights. If they feel that he is not mature enough and ready to process the information he intends to read properly, it is their *responsability* to protect him from this potentially harmful information.
You know, I'm no expert, but I think that any 12 year old would be able to figure out "slaughter the jews! they're jewish!" might not be a behaviour you want to emulate. In fact, I'd even be willing to bet on that. speaking as someone who has been playing violent video games since the tender age of 7, I can honestly say that most people have their heads so far up their asses it's not even remotely funny. and, if at 13, or 14, or 15, or 16, your kid isn't responsible enough to understand why the nazi way of looking at things is wrong, you've fucked up beyond all recovery, and you can't blame society one bit if that fucked up kid sees this new media and decides that he should go shoot up a school or kill a few cops. Blame yourself, because the rest of us sure as hell haven't done anything like that!
no way am I immature, I just like doing cool shit!
Did you see that part where you can shoot the cops arms off with a machine gun, and blood squirts out their stunps? that rocked! I also liked running people over! w00t!
It did, thank you. Actual conservative views are rather interesting, I think, and mirror my own in ways. I wonder if some of my "liberal" views are just conservative views once you head out of the presidency.:)
dude, not looking at, sleeping with. And just between you and me, I think they might have been having sex while they were there too. Probably why the kracker snapped.;p
GODDAMNIT! I'm sick and tired of people saying we should kill national socialists! Sure, they're a bit xenophobic, but that's no reason to KILL them! They kind of have a point, that breeding across races might eventually cause weaknesses through non-diversity as all humans will have basically the same genetic stock, but that's almost as spooky as the new york cola ban (note:they banned cola in schools because a study showed that kids who drink cola have a greater chance to become fat)
Also, you do realize that we are talking mainly about 15-year-olds and under? I sure as hell don't want fifth-graders to play Vice City all day. I know some fifth-graders, and I know for a fact that many or most of them have a hard time distinguishing video games and reality.
Really? How the FUCK do you know that? What psychic device have you been privy to all these years that has let you somehow manage to one-up child psychologists and researchers around the globe for the past 15 years and come to those unshakable conclusions?
Maybe, you're just some idiot redneck who likes to think he knows something about kids while "keeping it real" talking about all those hip new MC hammer records? We don't know your credentials, and for you to make such a sweeping, incredibly important, and incredibly subjective statement, you'd better have something better than a feeling in your gut before we start passing laws about this stuff.
I believe most people are not killers, and will never be. However, by your argument, propaganda and brainwashing are myths, fallacy, can't happen. The diet that your mind digests DOES affect you, I firmly believe that.... the question becomes "how much?"
Far more importantly, "Is that amount justification for taking rights away from game developers, who are citizens themselves, and subject to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else?"
You're opening a pandoras box. First the music industry. Then the film industry. then the games industry. Where do we stop? Why does anyone need to be silenced just because you're afraid of the message? Because you're afraid someone might misinterpet that message? Next week, maybe there'll be a law saying that mentioning cop killing is restricted. Does it break the first amendment? Of course not! There are restrictions on the restrictions! Regular people can be arrested for mentioning it, but protesters and politicans can still (well, the former if they get a permit...)
I agree that video game violence is a probably a small factor, but it does encourage a certain sociopathic bent. I would equate it to mullahs in Saudi Arabia and Iran exhorting their flocks to kill americans and jews... not everybody will listen, but a significant few will...
The difference here is that it's often a weak mind that will allow these suggestions, and people with weak minds are watching TV(don't worry, they're just learning to hate people in turbans and to never question American leaders because it's unpatriotic), not playing video games. Also, the people who are most likely to believe such things are generally in lower income brackets. Poor people can't afford PS2s, and they can't afford p800s with Geforce class video cards.
You've got to help me out here, because most self-proclaimed conservatives fit that stereotype all to well -- what does a conservative believe these days if they don't believe in hypocracy and bible thumping?
(sort of a trollish way to ask the question, but I am interested -- if a little jaded.)
Slashdot Mirror
More specifically, the hardcore benchmarkers market. Sorry to dissapoint, but no hardcore gamer would waste that much money on a video card if they could pick one up for a quarter of the price that worked just as well with all the games they play right now.
(Written by a hardcore gamer sitting on an old Geforce 4 MX 460 -- games run just fine, why upgrade?)
Check out the DX9 SDK. I believe that's what you were looking for.
The point is that ATI had a pretty tenuous justification (that they were optimizing for Quake 3 as it's the engine behind a large number of games), but if this is the case then nvidia has none.
Only if they didn't understand what they were doing, which I doubt. Since there aren't many quake-based games that are named quake.exe, and at the time, Quake 3 was an aging game used mainly for benchmarks, and the stunning similarity between the two, you're just searching for a way to justify it.
This case certainly isn't black and white. If you recall, 3dmark and nvidia are kind of in this PR war right now because 3dmark uses general shader code, which the ATI specifically handles better, whereas the nvidia handles specially optimized shader code quicker. Considering that either card is made for these fictional "next generation games" which the gaming media has been warning us of since the days of the Geforce 3, I've decided that it doesn't really matter either way. My old Geforce 4 MX is STILL chugging the newest games away just fine, despite all the doomsayers prophecies, and the gaming media is still warning us about these mythical games that are supposedly just around the corner, so I think I'll hold off my next video card purchace somewhat.
amen.
You might want to look into Win2k before XP. it's a lot nicer for most uses, and while it its a bit slower in some things, makes up for it by being the most stable windows to date.
The voodoo 3 was basically the equivilant to an SLI'd voodoo2, which had existed for years prior. This is confirmed by looking at most benchmarks between the two, which show the SLI setup running neck and neck with the voodoo3. The latter wasn't really a joke, but it wasn't the leader in the face of the fact that the TNT2 ultras were showing up around the same time, which were just as fast as the 3dfx cards, but had better image quality and features.
I haven't decided what my next card will be next. I was dissapointed by MSIs GF460-VTP because I have had so many problems getting all the drivers to work at once(TV-out in Win2k is hopelessly blitzed), and if I could get a working VIVO card for win2k using a later radeon chipset, I might consider switching, but only time will tell.
I think you've rendered your own point moot--they're not playing "Kill my freind with the gun", they're playing cops and robbers. And the arguement being made isn't that a naieve child will accidently kill someone, it's that children will gain a desire to kill from video games, and those with the means to do it will take the opportunity. It's argued not that the mere act of pointing a gun, but the act of killing itself, will become so desensitized in many childrens minds, that simply by clicking that mouse button in a game, they invariably open their minds to the possibility of premeditated homocide as a real and desirable option. I think that's such a laughable idea, and is an insult to the integrity of children and their parents everywhere. Certainly, a tragic few, who would likely have chosen suicide if the idea of genocide hadn't presented itself, would have been saved from the idea if there was no violent video games, but all cases lead to tragedy, and to restrict works merely because of the capabilities of a fractured mind is reckless and cowardly.
but here, we *are* dealing with black and white and clear cut. Kill or don't kill. We're not talking about subtle political issues, we're talking about questions like "well, duke nukem killed a bunch of aliens...can I kill my 5th grade class", or in this case, "well, anonymous henchman kills cops in GTAIII, I WANT TO TRY IT TOO!". GTAIII is very well designed to deter violence, by subtly showing it's folly(or did anyone manage to kill all the cops, army units, special forces and others in the city?).
Actually, the teenage gamer is mostly a myth, if sales numbers are to be believed. A recent survey done showed that 99% of games are bought by people over the age of majority. Makes sense, seeing as most kids don't really have the money for good PCs, let alone game libraries. I can honestly say that since I graduated high school, I've bought 100x the games I did during high school, so there is definitely a lot of truth tho this statistic, if my own numbers are to be believed.
What is this -- soviet russia? Nobody should have to play diplomatic games like that for a product sold primarily to 99% to people over 19. We have the ESRB, what do you want?
Shocking factoid: Companies don't make video games -- people do. It's kind of a strange concept, but companies and corporations are just legal constructs, the latter basically meant to limit liability of stockholders.
As for the Toys R Us stuff, I've never seen a paticularly violent video game on display at a kids game shop. Lots of Nintendo stuff though. Dreamcast too, back when it was out. Maybe your local store just has a phenomenally stupid management?
about your sig...
fuck. FUCK. I knew the Americans were being constantly lied to through their news media, but I had no idea how far it had gotten. Their news is about as reliable as the Iraqi information minister!
Odd. Where I live, debit cards are actually your regular banking cards. Hand it over, type in your PIN, and you're done.
:)
Interac is a beautiful thing.
Another example.. if a child's parents prevent him from reading neo-nazi, right extremist propaganda, isn't it a violation of his constitional rights? Yes - but they are also protecting his *human* rights. If they feel that he is not mature enough and ready to process the information he intends to read properly, it is their *responsability* to protect him from this potentially harmful information.
You know, I'm no expert, but I think that any 12 year old would be able to figure out "slaughter the jews! they're jewish!" might not be a behaviour you want to emulate. In fact, I'd even be willing to bet on that. speaking as someone who has been playing violent video games since the tender age of 7, I can honestly say that most people have their heads so far up their asses it's not even remotely funny. and, if at 13, or 14, or 15, or 16, your kid isn't responsible enough to understand why the nazi way of looking at things is wrong, you've fucked up beyond all recovery, and you can't blame society one bit if that fucked up kid sees this new media and decides that he should go shoot up a school or kill a few cops. Blame yourself, because the rest of us sure as hell haven't done anything like that!
no way am I immature, I just like doing cool shit!
Did you see that part where you can shoot the cops arms off with a machine gun, and blood squirts out their stunps? that rocked! I also liked running people over! w00t!
Ich glaube ihnen bedeutete Schutzstaffel, Teilnehmer von meinen.
or rather, I believe they meant Schutzstaffel, my freind.
babelfish+google:ph33r the p0w3r!
It did, thank you. Actual conservative views are rather interesting, I think, and mirror my own in ways. I wonder if some of my "liberal" views are just conservative views once you head out of the presidency. :)
dude, not looking at, sleeping with. And just between you and me, I think they might have been having sex while they were there too. Probably why the kracker snapped. ;p
GODDAMNIT! I'm sick and tired of people saying we should kill national socialists! Sure, they're a bit xenophobic, but that's no reason to KILL them! They kind of have a point, that breeding across races might eventually cause weaknesses through non-diversity as all humans will have basically the same genetic stock, but that's almost as spooky as the new york cola ban (note:they banned cola in schools because a study showed that kids who drink cola have a greater chance to become fat)
j/k
I see... ...and when police are shooting are you... are you supposed to be cute and cuddly then?
Just a thought.
Also, you do realize that we are talking mainly about 15-year-olds and under? I sure as hell don't want fifth-graders to play Vice City all day. I know some fifth-graders, and I know for a fact that many or most of them have a hard time distinguishing video games and reality.
Really? How the FUCK do you know that? What psychic device have you been privy to all these years that has let you somehow manage to one-up child psychologists and researchers around the globe for the past 15 years and come to those unshakable conclusions?
Maybe, you're just some idiot redneck who likes to think he knows something about kids while "keeping it real" talking about all those hip new MC hammer records? We don't know your credentials, and for you to make such a sweeping, incredibly important, and incredibly subjective statement, you'd better have something better than a feeling in your gut before we start passing laws about this stuff.
I believe most people are not killers, and will never be. However, by your argument, propaganda and brainwashing are myths, fallacy, can't happen. The diet that your mind digests DOES affect you, I firmly believe that.... the question becomes "how much?"
Far more importantly, "Is that amount justification for taking rights away from game developers, who are citizens themselves, and subject to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else?"
You're opening a pandoras box. First the music industry. Then the film industry. then the games industry. Where do we stop? Why does anyone need to be silenced just because you're afraid of the message? Because you're afraid someone might misinterpet that message? Next week, maybe there'll be a law saying that mentioning cop killing is restricted. Does it break the first amendment? Of course not! There are restrictions on the restrictions! Regular people can be arrested for mentioning it, but protesters and politicans can still (well, the former if they get a permit...)
God....we're all going to hell.
The only thing ironic here is your complete lack of command of the English language.
On slashdot? Ludicrous! Such a laughable assertion could only be found within the anals of the irony cornucopia known as slashdot!
I agree that video game violence is a probably a small factor, but it does encourage a certain sociopathic bent. I would equate it to mullahs in Saudi Arabia and Iran exhorting their flocks to kill americans and jews... not everybody will listen, but a significant few will...
The difference here is that it's often a weak mind that will allow these suggestions, and people with weak minds are watching TV(don't worry, they're just learning to hate people in turbans and to never question American leaders because it's unpatriotic), not playing video games. Also, the people who are most likely to believe such things are generally in lower income brackets. Poor people can't afford PS2s, and they can't afford p800s with Geforce class video cards.
You've got to help me out here, because most self-proclaimed conservatives fit that stereotype all to well -- what does a conservative believe these days if they don't believe in hypocracy and bible thumping?
(sort of a trollish way to ask the question, but I am interested -- if a little jaded.)
They should play "Fly!" instead! :D