This is a common mis-conception concerning the way the develpment cycle occurs. Don't you imagine that Linus and the BSD guys have a general idea of what features they are going to add to the kernel? I assure you they do. There is a certain amount of discussion and "show me the code" that occurs for features to get added, but this is no different than would occur in a cathederal environment behind closed doors. There are just more eyes looking at it.
Further, when we are talking about Linux are we talking about the kernel or a distribution??? The simple fact is that his arguement covers the entire system, not JUST the kernel. I tend to think he is right for "trusted" systems, but as an article just below this states - you can have a practical/safe level of security thru careful auditing of the existing software, and you get it faster.
So the point - Linux (and the BSD's too) DO have a central group of designers determining features/structure of the design. On the other hand, a distribution is much more of a patch work.
That's right - those devices aren't licensed, but I am! My ham radio ticket has spectrum available in the 2.4Ghz range...and I can push a 100Watts no problem LEGALLY...hehehehehe..
Not that I'm going to bother..but it's the thought that counts.
Well - I'm working on my 100 Watt transmitter for 2.4 Ghz to talk to the guy in the next town over. Hmm - maybe I'll build a spread-spectrum repeater on that band. That's the ticket - oh yeah - a amateur radio ticket;-)
The point of the story is - all this stuff is un-licensed (as has been pointed out before) and ANY licensed service has priority(in the US at least.) So if I DID build such a repeater, it would have priority, and all those neato devices that work at 2.4Ghz would have to accept/deal-with any interference caused. This whole story isn't news. The same thing happened to the 900Mhz band a couple years back. In my area the Richochet service pretty much trashes the entire band for any other use. Hmmm - Maybe a 900Mhz frequency hopping spread spectrum repeater...
I have to tell you that this characterization of the KDE developers as a group doing a "class project that needs someone to come in and crack the whip." is WAY off base. IMHO (and I have been around the business for 20 years ) the folks doing KDE are world class, not freshmen class. The interface that they've engineered, and yes I chose that word on purpose, is well done and relatively self-consistant.
At the same time - the author of the article has chosen the quoted postings carefully to illustrate his point. It is a fairly one-sided article from that point. Corel doesn't get a word in, nor are the KDE developers speaking of what they think of Corel. The author makes his point, but as in MOST journalistic efforts - there could be a lot un-seen that the reader isn't aware of. It taint as simple as it seems.
Corel had some rough days as they brought their distribution out, everyone remember the goof about not making the distribution available? Corel managed to recover from that goof, and a few others in their movement into the open-source world. They've also contributed significantly to the WINE project, yet the author COMPLETELY missed that aspect. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....
Well - some hardware uses more than one IRQ. (Can you say sound cards for instance). Second - you folks are looking back with nearly 20 years of hind-site.
As to the point that the OS won't get rid of these problems. That is also true, further, what makes anyone think that OS-X is going to have any great number of drivers? It won't. It'll have the same issues as the early OS-2 did - no vendor support.
I'm sorry. The terms three-state(tm) or tri-state(tm) is trade-marked. You failed to give appropriate credit for same, thus you are in violation. Please place $1000 in the slot next to the keyboard to avoid further legal action!
You have 10 seconds before this terminal self distructs 10....9....8....
The amateur radio packet solution on HF at 300 baud is possible as others have mentioned, but does require a license. Doesn't matter that you are in international waters or not, amateur radio is an internationally regulated set of frequencies. It takes a license in all cases.
At the same time, if this lady is sailing on a commercial liner getting permission of the captain/cruise line is also mandatory to setup an Amateur station on their vessel! Just an FYI.
All the more power to you - but don't assume that because you can sling code at age 15 that things like college won't add whole other dimensions to what you are capable of, because they will.
You see - I was you 25 years ago! I thought I was a hot coder, back in the days when it was usually done with assembly in a few kbytes of space. There are great many aspects to be a great software engineer beyond knowing the syntax in C++, Java, et al. There is learning the discipline involved in engineering something, the techniques of database design, algorithm design, compiler design, etc. that have already been solved. You don't have to reinvent them over and over again!
You've got some experience already that will help you succeed. School hands you a huge number of extra tools that you probably haven't discovered yourself already.
Re:Young + ($10M to $30M) - experience := disaster
on
Too Old To Code?
·
· Score: 1
I'm going to reply to this because I think it's a wonderful story;-)
I'm a hiring manager in the silicon services business, i.e. we provide consulting services to people designing chips. I prefer to higher people with 10 or more years of experience doing chip design.(For those who don't know - chip design is now basically a software job with hardware under-pinnings. )
As for the value of people right out of school versus 10 years of experience there is no contest. Someone right out of school doesn't have the knowledge base to do chip design from start to fin ish. They can acquire it - but then it's called experience;-) So a fresh college grad doesn't have the same value as someone who is seasonsed.
Seasoning usually also implies working smarter. You can work 70 hours and still fail as illustrated by this story. Other "olsters" in this set of responses have mentioned pulling out their "bag of tricks" to get work done more efficiently. They don't carry it all around in their heads because they've "been there, done that" so many times that now they know where to look to find the answer quickly, and don't have to re-invent it.
Give me a 10/20 year veteran who really knows what he's doing over a fresh face any time for pulling the heavy loads. Give me the fresh face to be mentored by the veteran and I've got the best of both worlds!
Yep - that is the problem with the DMCA. Even if the "circumvention" is for playing a legally owned copy of the movie on a platform un-improved by the MPA - say Linux.
This is an interesting point because it intersects with the current DeCSS casses. Note that this guy thinks they have WON the DeCSS court casses. No - they have injunctions until the trial occurs. Time will tell.
Your premise is that they need to create a copyright technology to enforce their rights. Isn't that what DeCSS was? I'd point out that they believe they have the right to control ALL aspects of delivery of the content. The guys that created DeCSS stepped on those particular toes.
This notion of theirs goes against the establised "Fair Use" doctrines. That was what the Betamax case established. I have a right to play a legally purchased disk on ANY player capable of playing same. Yet they ignore this (and maybe the DMCA does too..) I hope/pray that the court sees that the DMCA is BAD law on this point. It supresses what HAS been a cornerstone of competition, thhe ability to reverse-engineer.
So - if DeCSS didn't work, why will any other system that the industry cooks up be any more un-hackable?
Re:Choice of enterprise solutions
on
Linux Failover?
·
· Score: 2
For a "top flight consultant" you have a few mis-conceptions. BSD isn't a new version of the Solaris code. Solaris is NOW a SysV derivative, i.e. ATT code. BSD is BSD. For the older versions of SunOS that you are thinking about, they separated from the main BSD tree ALONG time ago.
As for offering your customers a product with a company who stands behind it's guarantee - you're giving them MS? Why? That is pure FUD. Did you hear about the court case that handed down a couple weeks ago where the software supplier was held immune due to the "we don't guarantee this software for any use" clause in the shrink-wrap agreement. Pretty much leaves the concept of a "Big company" being needed out in the cold.
Here Here! This does a fair summary of stating WHY this is such a load of nonsense. This isn't news for Nerds, it's it's own political manefesto railing against Open-Source. What does gun ownership have to do with Open source. Answer - NOTHING! The fact that ESR has policitcal views beyond his opinions of open-source have no bearings on his Open source beliefs. As for RMS's views. I'm more in line with ESR, but at least RMS is consistant, and lives his life in a manner completely consistant with his beliefs. Doubt this dweeb can say the same.
I want to second this opinion. Under normal circumstances, what you write while you are being payed belongs to the employer - simple as that. Further, work on a GPL'd program that ISN'T distributed can be kept proprietary...so your employer could claim copyright on that part of the program that you write while your employed. This can be modified by a written agreement. GET ONE!
First off - and GOD I hate siding with MS on this part - but "prior restraint" implies stopping publishing BEFORE it occurs, not after. In this case the items have been published already.
As for stating that the government should be overthown, well that may border on the illegal as well. I aint a lawyer, but me thinks that if it is illegal to threaten the Pres, it's probably illegal to urge the over throw of the government.
As to the DMCA - it DOES go to far. MS has high-jacked a public standard. At this point I think all internet standards should be GPL'd! If MS extends or enhances said standard they should be REQUIRED to devulge the full extent and details of same. But then - MS is in denial about what happened in court so what do you expect.
Well - not ALL projects work in this fashion. Some (actually alot of the most successful) have a supreme benevolent dictator that DOESN'T maintain a CVS tree, but rather controls the patches into the project directly themselves. (Use Linux as a good example)
Then there is the little reality that SourceForge is a VA project run by VA employees that may have OTHER responsibilities that have them spread thin. (just a guess here - but it only takes ONE explanation that is correct doesn't it.) Since it is indeed open-source - you COULD fork the code, setup an alternate site and go from there. I suspect in this particular case that would be a BAD idea, but the possibility remains.
Even when a project DOES have a CVS tree, the contributors are usually limited for good reason. It doesn't take much to make a tree completely useless (CVS is both a blessing and a pain in this respect.)
My advice is - you've complained here, why not REWRITE it to be more polite, and suggest alternatives to the maintainers. Honey works better than vinegar (Right CT??;-)
Hal hit it on the head - the thing this article really doesn't talk about was the customer abuse from NetAppliance, some of which bordered on the criminal. These guys tried to retro-actively apply new terms and conditions on a sale that had already occured. They sent letters implying this change to customers who had completed the transaction with Circuit city, i.e. had paid for the unit, and in many cases (like mine) had ALREADY taken delivery of the units! You can't do that. There was also a few horror stories of them retroactively charging peoples' credit cards.
I understand the company's point of view, at the same time, they goofed when they setup their distribution channels. They created a channel that didn't require or enforce any agreement beyond the purchase of the hardware itself. Am I at fault for taking advantage of such a situation?
If all I do is run down to Circuit City and purchase one under the agreement AS present when this first started I've given hard-earned cash for a piece of gear. They setup the terms of purchase, I complied.
This sounds like a case for a first quarter law-student, i.e. obviously we've formed a contract by the exchange of goods that was complete. NetPliance trying to come back two weeks later and changing the rules of the deal, or crying foul don't hold water.
Don't look now, but the Web is only the latest place that English has become the dominate language. It's already been the standard for communications for Airline pilots the world over, and the VAST majority of amateur radio communications takes place in English as well ( and has been like that for decades.)
There was a PBS special some years ago that presented all the places English was in use throughout the world. The show claimed that maybe 1/3 the people on earth speak some form of English already. ( Ignoring that 1 billion Chineese can't be ignored either;-)
So - without being "nationalistic" or in any other way superior about it - English has already traveled along way to being the International standard language. I think the Web is just another aspect of this path.
Gee - the "author" of the code found it in use in a way that didn't comply with the licesne. He put the company on notice, and they agreed to fix it.
First, if anyone has a right to complain, the "author" of the code would be first in line. Second, in this particular case the author was reasonable and the company was reasonable. After all, un-intended mistakes occur and it appears that this was one such example.
Be doesn't seem to be terribly upset (and truth be told - their's was the mistake) and the "author" got his goals accomplished which was proper re-relase of his code as stipulated by GPL.
Using this incident as an example of why GPL is a "bad thing" doesn't stand up to examination.
First, (I don't know what "SOAP" refers too..so won't go there..) but why does XML have to be supported by the kernel? This is as User Space an item as I can imagine.
Second - what does RMS have to do with release of a Linux kernel? (Answer - nothing;-)
First off - if you're "in the industry" you wouldn't use the term "l33t" though your point about Linux originally being hard to install/use are true.
Your observations concering Mr Torvalds and Mr Cox are nonsense, as is most of the rest of your post.
For a actual comment on the topic - I use to work for the company in question. They are an oportunistically managed company that doesn't have a concept of "long term planning." They run products out like people run ideas up flag poles. They remove products from the market just as quickly, never giving their channels a chance to really figure out how to market the stuff.
Your missing the point of the original problem. They changed the conditions of sale AFTER he bought it. I've got one of these from Circuit City and have been watching the whole fiasco as it unfolds. Net Appliance presented a Loss-Leader product to the market that had "holes" that are easily taken advantage of to make it something it wasn't intended for (but does a nice job of being a low-end PC) They got taken to the cleaners and are aggressively trying to get our of their situation. With that being said - changing the rules of engagement 2 weeks after the sale doesn't fly. That's bait and switch/slamming (call it what you want.) and it sucks royally. He'll contest it and win.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a common mis-conception concerning the way the develpment cycle occurs. Don't you imagine that Linus and the BSD guys have a general idea of what features they are going to add to the kernel? I assure you they do. There is a certain amount of discussion and "show me the code" that occurs for features to get added, but this is no different than would occur in a cathederal environment behind closed doors. There are just more eyes looking at it.
Further, when we are talking about Linux are we talking about the kernel or a distribution??? The simple fact is that his arguement covers the entire system, not JUST the kernel. I tend to think he is right for "trusted" systems, but as an article just below this states - you can have a practical/safe level of security thru careful auditing of the existing software, and you get it faster.
So the point - Linux (and the BSD's too) DO have a central group of designers determining features/structure of the design. On the other hand, a distribution is much more of a patch work.
That's right - those devices aren't licensed, but I am! My ham radio ticket has spectrum available in the 2.4Ghz range...and I can push a 100Watts no problem LEGALLY...hehehehehe..
Not that I'm going to bother..but it's the thought that counts.
Well - I'm working on my 100 Watt transmitter ;-)
for 2.4 Ghz to talk to the guy in the next town over. Hmm - maybe I'll build a spread-spectrum repeater on that band. That's the ticket - oh yeah - a amateur radio ticket
The point of the story is - all this stuff is un-licensed (as has been pointed out before) and ANY licensed service has priority(in the US at least.) So if I DID build such a repeater, it would have priority, and all those neato devices that work at 2.4Ghz would have to accept/deal-with any interference caused. This whole story isn't news. The same thing happened to the 900Mhz band a couple years back. In my area the Richochet service pretty much trashes the entire band for any other use. Hmmm - Maybe a 900Mhz frequency hopping spread spectrum repeater...
I have to tell you that this characterization of the KDE developers as a group doing a "class project that needs someone to come in and crack the whip." is WAY off base. IMHO (and I have been around the business for 20 years ) the folks doing KDE are world class, not freshmen class. The interface that they've engineered, and yes I chose that word on purpose, is well done and relatively self-consistant.
At the same time - the author of the article has chosen the quoted postings carefully to illustrate his point. It is a fairly one-sided article from that point. Corel doesn't get a word in, nor are the KDE developers speaking of what they think of Corel. The author makes his point, but as in MOST journalistic efforts - there could be a lot un-seen that the reader isn't aware of. It taint as simple as it seems.
Corel had some rough days as they brought their distribution out, everyone remember the goof about not making the distribution available? Corel managed to recover from that goof, and a few others in their movement into the open-source world. They've also contributed significantly to the WINE project, yet the author COMPLETELY missed that aspect. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....
So - take it ALL with a grain of salt!
Well - some hardware uses more than one IRQ. (Can you say sound cards for instance). Second - you folks are looking back with nearly 20 years of hind-site.
As to the point that the OS won't get rid of these problems. That is also true, further, what makes anyone think that OS-X is going to have any great number of drivers? It won't. It'll have the same issues as the early OS-2 did - no vendor support.
Well - Correl sure as hell thought so!
They already do that, and have enhanced KDE on top of that.
Steve
I'm sorry. The terms three-state(tm) or tri-state(tm) is trade-marked. You failed to give appropriate credit for same, thus you are in violation. Please place $1000 in the slot next to the keyboard to avoid further legal action!
You have 10 seconds before this terminal self
distructs 10....9....8....
The amateur radio packet solution on HF at 300 baud is possible as others have mentioned, but does require a license. Doesn't matter that you are in international waters or not, amateur radio is an internationally regulated set of frequencies. It takes a license in all cases.
At the same time, if this lady is sailing on a commercial liner getting permission of the captain/cruise line is also mandatory to setup an Amateur station on their vessel! Just an FYI.
Tony,
All the more power to you - but don't assume that because you can sling code at age 15 that things like college won't add whole other dimensions to what you are capable of, because they will.
You see - I was you 25 years ago! I thought I was a hot coder, back in the days when it was usually done with assembly in a few kbytes of space. There are great many aspects to be a great software engineer beyond knowing the syntax in C++, Java, et al. There is learning the discipline involved in engineering something, the techniques of database design, algorithm design, compiler design, etc. that have already been solved. You don't have to reinvent them over and over again!
You've got some experience already that will help you succeed. School hands you a huge number of extra tools that you probably haven't discovered yourself already.
I'm going to reply to this because I think it's a wonderful story ;-)
;-) So a fresh college grad doesn't have the same value as someone who is seasonsed.
I'm a hiring manager in the silicon services business, i.e. we provide consulting services to people designing chips. I prefer to higher people with 10 or more years of experience doing chip design.(For those who don't know - chip design is now basically a software job with hardware under-pinnings. )
As for the value of people right out of school versus 10 years of experience there is no contest. Someone right out of school doesn't have the knowledge base to do chip design from start to fin ish. They can acquire it - but then it's called experience
Seasoning usually also implies working smarter. You can work 70 hours and still fail as illustrated by this story. Other "olsters" in this set of responses have mentioned pulling out their "bag of tricks" to get work done more efficiently. They don't carry it all around in their heads because they've "been there, done that" so many times that now they know where to look to find the answer quickly, and don't have to re-invent it.
Give me a 10/20 year veteran who really knows what he's doing over a fresh face any time for pulling the heavy loads. Give me the fresh face to be mentored by the veteran and I've got the best of both worlds!
Yep - that is the problem with the DMCA. Even if the "circumvention" is for playing a legally owned copy of the movie on a platform un-improved by the MPA - say Linux.
This is an interesting point because it intersects with the current DeCSS casses. Note that this guy thinks they have WON the DeCSS court casses. No - they have injunctions until the trial occurs. Time will tell.
Your premise is that they need to create a copyright technology to enforce their rights. Isn't that what DeCSS was? I'd point out that they believe they have the right to control ALL aspects of delivery of the content. The guys that created DeCSS stepped on those particular toes.
This notion of theirs goes against the establised "Fair Use" doctrines. That was what the Betamax case established. I have a right to play a legally purchased disk on ANY player capable of playing same. Yet they ignore this (and maybe the DMCA does too..) I hope/pray that the court sees that the DMCA is BAD law on this point. It supresses what HAS been a cornerstone of competition, thhe ability to reverse-engineer.
So - if DeCSS didn't work, why will any other system that the industry cooks up be any more un-hackable?
For a "top flight consultant" you have a few mis-conceptions. BSD isn't a new version of the Solaris code. Solaris is NOW a SysV derivative, i.e. ATT code. BSD is BSD. For the older versions of SunOS that you are thinking about, they separated from the main BSD tree ALONG time ago.
As for offering your customers a product with a company who stands behind it's guarantee - you're giving them MS? Why? That is pure FUD. Did you hear about the court case that handed down a couple weeks ago where the software supplier was held immune due to the "we don't guarantee this software for any use" clause in the shrink-wrap agreement. Pretty much leaves the concept of a "Big company" being needed out in the cold.
Here Here! This does a fair summary of stating WHY this is such a load of nonsense. This isn't news for Nerds, it's it's own political manefesto railing against Open-Source. What does gun ownership have to do with Open source. Answer - NOTHING! The fact that ESR has policitcal views beyond his opinions of open-source have no bearings on his Open source beliefs. As for RMS's views. I'm more in line with ESR, but at least RMS is consistant, and lives his life in a manner completely consistant with his beliefs. Doubt this dweeb can say the same.
I want to second this opinion. Under normal circumstances, what you write while you are being payed belongs to the employer - simple as that. Further, work on a GPL'd program that ISN'T distributed can be kept proprietary...so your employer could claim copyright on that part of the program that you write while your employed. This can be modified by a written agreement. GET ONE!
First off - and GOD I hate siding with MS on this part - but "prior restraint" implies stopping publishing BEFORE it occurs, not after. In this case the items have been published already.
As for stating that the government should be overthown, well that may border on the illegal as well. I aint a lawyer, but me thinks that if it is illegal to threaten the Pres, it's probably illegal to urge the over throw of the government.
As to the DMCA - it DOES go to far. MS has high-jacked a public standard. At this point I think all internet standards should be GPL'd! If MS extends or enhances said standard they should be REQUIRED to devulge the full extent and details of same. But then - MS is in denial about what happened in court so what do you expect.
Well - not ALL projects work in this fashion. Some (actually alot of the most successful) have a supreme benevolent dictator that DOESN'T maintain a CVS tree, but rather controls the patches into the project directly themselves. (Use Linux as a good example)
;-)
Then there is the little reality that SourceForge is a VA project run by VA employees that may have OTHER responsibilities that have them spread thin. (just a guess here - but it only takes ONE explanation that is correct doesn't it.) Since it is indeed open-source - you COULD fork the code, setup an alternate site and go from there. I suspect in this particular case that would be a BAD idea, but the possibility remains.
Even when a project DOES have a CVS tree, the contributors are usually limited for good reason. It doesn't take much to make a tree completely useless (CVS is both a blessing and a pain in this respect.)
My advice is - you've complained here, why not REWRITE it to be more polite, and suggest alternatives to the maintainers. Honey works better than vinegar (Right CT??
Hal hit it on the head - the thing this article really doesn't talk about was the customer abuse from NetAppliance, some of which bordered on the criminal. These guys tried to retro-actively apply new terms and conditions on a sale that had already occured. They sent letters implying this change to customers who had completed the transaction with Circuit city, i.e. had paid for the unit, and in many cases (like mine) had ALREADY taken delivery of the units! You can't do that. There was also a few horror stories of them retroactively charging peoples' credit cards.
So - there is the OTHER side of the story.
I understand the company's point of view, at the same time, they goofed when they setup their distribution channels. They created a channel that didn't require or enforce any agreement beyond the purchase of the hardware itself. Am I at fault for taking advantage of such a situation?
If all I do is run down to Circuit City and purchase one under the agreement AS present when this first started I've given hard-earned cash for a piece of gear. They setup the terms of purchase, I complied.
This sounds like a case for a first quarter law-student, i.e. obviously we've formed a contract by the exchange of goods that was complete. NetPliance trying to come back two weeks later and changing the rules of the deal, or crying foul don't hold water.
Don't look now, but the Web is only the latest place that English has become the dominate language. It's already been the standard for communications for Airline pilots the world over, and the VAST majority of amateur radio communications takes place in English as well ( and has been like that for decades.)
;-)
There was a PBS special some years ago that presented all the places English was in use throughout the world. The show claimed that maybe 1/3 the people on earth speak some form of English already. ( Ignoring that 1 billion Chineese can't be ignored either
So - without being "nationalistic" or in any other way superior about it - English has already traveled along way to being the International standard language. I think the Web is just another aspect of this path.
Gee - the "author" of the code found it in use in a way that didn't comply with the licesne. He put the company on notice, and they agreed to fix it.
First, if anyone has a right to complain, the "author" of the code would be first in line. Second, in this particular case the author was reasonable and the company was reasonable. After all, un-intended mistakes occur and it appears that this was one such example.
Be doesn't seem to be terribly upset (and truth be told - their's was the mistake) and the "author" got his goals accomplished which was proper re-relase of his code as stipulated by GPL.
Using this incident as an example of why GPL is a "bad thing" doesn't stand up to examination.
I've got to ask two questions.
;-)
First, (I don't know what "SOAP" refers too..so
won't go there..) but why does XML have to be supported by the kernel? This is as User Space an item as I can imagine.
Second - what does RMS have to do with release of a Linux kernel? (Answer - nothing
First off - if you're "in the industry" you
wouldn't use the term "l33t" though your point
about Linux originally being hard to install/use
are true.
Your observations concering Mr Torvalds and Mr Cox
are nonsense, as is most of the rest of your post.
For a actual comment on the topic - I use to work
for the company in question. They are an
oportunistically managed company that doesn't have
a concept of "long term planning." They run
products out like people run ideas up flag poles.
They remove products from the market just as
quickly, never giving their channels a chance
to really figure out how to market the stuff.
As Martin Luther King Jr put it -
;-)
Free at last, Free at last
I hope that MS gets split up - much like the
baby bells did AND FORBIDDEN to reconstruct
themselves in 10 to 20 years!!!!
Your missing the point of the original problem. They changed the conditions of sale AFTER he bought it. I've got one of these from Circuit City and have been watching the whole fiasco as it unfolds. Net Appliance presented a Loss-Leader product to the market that had "holes" that are easily taken advantage of to make it something it wasn't intended for (but does a nice job of being
a low-end PC) They got taken to the cleaners and are aggressively trying to get our of their situation. With that being said - changing the rules of engagement 2 weeks after the sale doesn't fly. That's bait and switch/slamming (call it what you want.) and it sucks royally. He'll contest it and win.