How could it not "stay true to the look and feel of Unix"? Red Hat does not remove your ability to hack your system from the command line any more than Slakware does.
It does however provide simpler tools to do it. I learned how to use linux on Red Hat. I used the tools to do what I didn't yet know how to, and I used the command line to do whatr i had already learned as I learned more I used the Red Hat tools less and less until I finally switched distros (Red Hat won't miss me I never paid them for it anyway). If I couldn't do it that way, I (and many others) would still be using, god-forbid, Windows.
And if more people start using linux with Red Hat, well that just makes me happier.
The horrible thing is I made the same mistake when I was first looking through the headlines.
The good news is: what would you ask Rupert Murdoch? All I can think of is "Does it upset you that the Simpsons spends a lot of it's time insulting you and your company?" But Ian Murdoch, well... I couldn't think of much to ask him either, but other people asked much better questions.
I'm glad they can't use the other programs. It's these "sheep" that are getting everybody into trouble. If they weren't on napster then to this day the press would never have heard of MP3s.
I'm not saying this coverage hasn't done good things. We can now get portable mp3 players and there are a lot more songs available.
I will miss the fact that when I can't find a rare song on irc it will be on napster (I just have to wait longer because no matter they say people on Napster are slow), but I will not miss having to deal with idiots so that I can get a mp3 of Dave Matthews Band playing All Along The Watchtower with the Grateful Dead. How many times have you found a great song only to find that the person offering it: lied about their connection speed (funny story on that one), mislabeled the song - with the wrong artist and song name (I actually downloaded a cool live pearl jam song only to find out that it was some odd spanish song), cancel your download 95% of the way through, didn't compress with a high enough quality causing funny noises, or just cut the end of the song off while recording it? You don't find too many of these problems on IRC (before napster's songs got spread around that is) the only thing you ever had to worry about then was if you lost you internet connection before the download is complete, and that problem is solved with high-bandwidth always-on connections.
the Funny Story I promised: When I first found out that my sister was using Napster I asked her if she had left the server on (this machine is too old and underpowered for such things). She said "Yes, but dont worry, I didn't let it slow down the computer because I set it to the highest speed." Turns out she had labeled that 28.8 connection as a T1 line. Kind of proves my point though.
Not to squash your reminiscing mood, I just wanted to remind you that the people who speak so casually of software are from a different world than the one Unix resides in. Personally I still use Pine, Sendmail, Lynx, and a slew of programs older than me. But in that other world, the OS gets replaced every 3 years, you need more memory and a larger CPU just to run a word proccessor, the web browser takes longer to load itself than it takes to load most sites, and those are the highlites of their world. If you were still in it, you would say the same thing about software.
The only proven way of getting something to survive the ages is to write it down lots of times.
We can see the art of cavemen, the writing of the ancient egyptians. But can we hear their music? We hear Mozart on the radio, on CD's, in concert because his music was written down in sheet music and then many people copied it down again.
The (copy-righted) music of today is not allowed to be written out in sheet music for all to enjoy. It is only available to us on CDs which aren't going to last as long as most people seem to think. Sometime after the decay of the music industry the CDs will slowly lose their memory, the few tapes that exist will be practically worthless, and who ever uses a LP anymore? How will we listen to our favorite musicians then? The music can't be reproduced there is no sheet music to reproduce it from.
How? It's not like this is Sony saying that only Sony products can use a memory stick while their competitors stand by watching. There are no competitors standing by watching helplessly. They are all in on it. The hardware producers make sales, the movie format producers make sales. You don't want to buy DVD? Buy a VCR and video cassette tapes... it doesn't matter the money goes to the exact same place.
Only problem I see with that is IBM will surely want to buy a well-known distro (if they didn't make their own). In the US the obvious choice would be Red Hat, some other options could be SUSE, Debian, Mandrake, and I don't think Slackware is a viable option for this discussion.
But for discussion sake they choose to buy Red Hat. They take last week's earning from Thinkpads and buy up all of the stock. No more Red Hat bumper stickers, no more pictures of penguins wearing red fedoras (always looked to me like a penguin that just got laid by Carmen San Diego). But now they also control GNOME.
I believe that the GNOME/KDE debate is one of the best things happening to the linux world. It spawns better graphics, stabler desktops, more built-in features, more customizationabilty, etc. Who knows what would happen in IBM's hands?
Sorry, I forgot where I was going with this, just make up whatever ending you want. All I ask is that in your ending I sound smart.:-)
While I'm sure revenge is on the minds of those in charge (and mine actually) but IBM wouldn't waste millions for such as a lowly purpose. This type of revenge is what makes them happiest, a step into the future.
AIX (and the others) has been floundering for years. IBM has by this time put more money than most of us can imagine into developing UNIX/AIX software/hardware. We (should) all know what MS did to them.
Now comes an opprotunity to: 1. Regain a use for their most of software and hardware. 2. Seek revenge on Microsoft 3. Gain popularity with a community that used to hate it 4. Be one of the firsts in the market 5. Have all future developing & testing done free/cheap
Personally I wonder why more *IX companies aren't doing the same things.
Devil Ducky
Re:I know exactly what it means
on
The CPO Cometh
·
· Score: 2
>The CPO is somebody who knows exactly how far they can go without pissing off their customers.
Right, Every company is going to do as much as they can get away with as long as it makes them more money. If they stop their actions just short of pissing off their customers what damage is done? As it is now they don't bother to stop short they just go forth and then apologize (sometimes).
Sure they're not doing it in the name of privacy but that is still what is being accomplished.
The government doesn't trust the average schmo to find his way home let alone to build a rocket. Since it is them (and their other government friends) that control all of the technology in the space buisness do you think they are going to let just anybody use it? Not without paying dearly, at least. The biggest downside (to them) is how much they have to pay to keep up the illusion of high prices. They could be using that money for much better purposes... like invading Canada... or measuring the speed of various Catsups/Ketchups.
Some Picket Signs for this one: "If you can't trust your citizens who can you trust?" "Come on, this is rocketry not brain surgery." "Heinz, Hunts, who cares?";-)
The GNOME and KDE competition are like the long gone days of Paul McCartney competing with John Lennon to see who could write the best song. In the end they both made the band better than it ever could have been with only one of them, this was proven in their later careers.
Linuxconf reminds me more of the... Backstreet Boys or N'Sync. The whole band is really only there for show, no one of substinance would listen to them unless made to by their daughter, and frankly the thought of solo careers scares the bejezus out of me. This turned out to be a pretty accurate comparison;-)
I admit it, back when my machine was RedHat based I used linuxconf, and once a short while after I has switched to Slackware I tried to install it (I don't know I think I lost my mind) But after formatting and reinstalling Slackware (it was the only way I could get linuxconf off of my system in under 6 months) I never tried that again.
>White Anglo-Saxon Protestant ruling class That's WASP not WAP.
As far as I can tell WAP stands for Witches Against Puritans, and who can blame them? I truly dislike those Puritans, what with their flashy hats, turkey dinners, influenza, and new world order. Argh.
According to the story the device had a Tux Logo on it, it never said "Linux Compatible." And even if it did say that all they would have to prove is they had one succesful test on a linux machine and then they broke no false advertising laws only stretched a few.
The only obvious law they would have broken would be trademark infringement (Linux owns "Linux" and all of it's pronounciations:) But it is that infringement that is the threat behind the stance Microsoft, Novell, IBM, Apple, and everyone else who support 'Compatible' third-party products.
I don't think Linus would have the time, but he could nominate someone to look into these situations on his behalf. That someone would be helped by the entire community pointing out the offenders and then (s)he would test the complaint and take the neccessary action (a letter to the manufacturer should generally be enough.)
I know I don't have any fancy links to prove my points but here they are anyway.
RMS did NOT invent Free Software. In the beginning all software was free/open-source. The original hackers didn't care about closing everything up to keep it "secure" (Many still don't) That was the invention of the PHBs that followed. RMS crusaded to re-free the software.
That "side effect" of free software being changable is one of the original reasons for leaving the source open, and the reason the PHBs shut the source down (it's very hard to sell software that's open source.) The freedom of choice that RMS so vehemotly supports is the real "side effect."
In fact some of those old free programs are still in use today, just another side effect.
You seem to have forgotten the other major project that NASA has been working on: The Mars landings. All of these probes (that keep crashing) are being sent there to explore for a hopeful manned mission. I read somewhere (I think on/.) about a time schedule for the manned mission being soon after the space station nears completion.
The average windows user is smart/lucky enough to share a folder on their hard drive if given just the right instructions, I see it happen all of the time.
It's not the FTP client that would be hard to implement it's the FTP server.
he didn't mean personal *cough*i mean campaign income, he meant income to allay the costs of running and maintaining a web site.
But where could this concept of government ads lead? "This IRS audit brought to you by H&R Block... If you had used us you would not have been audited." "This speeding ticket is sponsored by Allstate.. Your rates just went up." "The 'Howard Stern' Voting Booth."
"No one has ever been fired for buying IBM" is something they used to say at IBM (and still should).
However, you can not say the same thing about Microsoft. At least not without adding the lines from the Dilbert comic -> I (almost) quote "There we're a few suicides and more than our share of lynches but those have statistcal clustering written all over them"
>At least one implementation of an FTP server is freely available on every OS I can think of. True, FTP is on (practically) every OS. But it's not designed for streaming traffic. I don't think SMB wasn't designed for streaming either, but it was adapted to it. SMB doesn't come built into every OS but it does come built into one that FTP is not included in -> Windows.
When Dell started this idea and they had to ask the inevitable question "What network protocol do we use? FTP, a standard but it would require special software for windows users, or SMB, not a standard but would require no extra software for windows users?" What do you think they would choose? What would you choose in their shoes, honestly?
The only good news in this rant is that thanks to an ingenious program (I'm not a developer, nor do I have anything to do with project) called Samba SMB is available to all of the Unices. I know Macs have some implementation of SMB (I don't know what it's called).
So that pretty much takes care of Dell's problem. That is if they even bothered to care about non-windows users and I would be truly surprised if they did.
Slashdot Mirror
How could it not "stay true to the look and feel of Unix"? Red Hat does not remove your ability to hack your system from the command line any more than Slakware does.
It does however provide simpler tools to do it. I learned how to use linux on Red Hat. I used the tools to do what I didn't yet know how to, and I used the command line to do whatr i had already learned as I learned more I used the Red Hat tools less and less until I finally switched distros (Red Hat won't miss me I never paid them for it anyway). If I couldn't do it that way, I (and many others) would still be using, god-forbid, Windows.
And if more people start using linux with Red Hat, well that just makes me happier.
Devil Ducky
To sum up you're saying:
"All that matters is the size of your pipe"
And she said size doesn't matter, good thing I got that cable modem.
Devil Ducky
The horrible thing is I made the same mistake when I was first looking through the headlines.
The good news is: what would you ask Rupert Murdoch? All I can think of is "Does it upset you that the Simpsons spends a lot of it's time insulting you and your company?" But Ian Murdoch, well... I couldn't think of much to ask him either, but other people asked much better questions.
Devil Ducky
I'm glad they can't use the other programs.
It's these "sheep" that are getting everybody into trouble. If they weren't on napster then to this day the press would never have heard of MP3s.
I'm not saying this coverage hasn't done good things. We can now get portable mp3 players and there are a lot more songs available.
I will miss the fact that when I can't find a rare song on irc it will be on napster (I just have to wait longer because no matter they say people on Napster are slow), but I will not miss having to deal with idiots so that I can get a mp3 of Dave Matthews Band playing All Along The Watchtower with the Grateful Dead. How many times have you found a great song only to find that the person offering it: lied about their connection speed (funny story on that one), mislabeled the song - with the wrong artist and song name (I actually downloaded a cool live pearl jam song only to find out that it was some odd spanish song), cancel your download 95% of the way through, didn't compress with a high enough quality causing funny noises, or just cut the end of the song off while recording it? You don't find too many of these problems on IRC (before napster's songs got spread around that is) the only thing you ever had to worry about then was if you lost you internet connection before the download is complete, and that problem is solved with high-bandwidth always-on connections.
the Funny Story I promised:
When I first found out that my sister was using Napster I asked her if she had left the server on (this machine is too old and underpowered for such things). She said "Yes, but dont worry, I didn't let it slow down the computer because I set it to the highest speed." Turns out she had labeled that 28.8 connection as a T1 line. Kind of proves my point though.
Good Riddance.
Devil Ducky
1 Terrabyte of memory?
<sarcasm>
No one will ever need more than 512Kb.
Now excuse me while I write a program that has all of the bugs^H^H^H^Hfeatures of Internet Explorer, Word, Excel, and (everyone's favorite) Outlook.
</sarcasm>
Hmm, the sarcasm doesn't seem to have stopped.
Devil Ducky
>and people say software dies very quickly
Not to squash your reminiscing mood, I just wanted to remind you that the people who speak so casually of software are from a different world than the one Unix resides in. Personally I still use Pine, Sendmail, Lynx, and a slew of programs older than me. But in that other world, the OS gets replaced every 3 years, you need more memory and a larger CPU just to run a word proccessor, the web browser takes longer to load itself than it takes to load most sites, and those are the highlites of their world. If you were still in it, you would say the same thing about software.
Devil Ducky
The only proven way of getting something to survive the ages is to write it down lots of times.
We can see the art of cavemen, the writing of the ancient egyptians. But can we hear their music? We hear Mozart on the radio, on CD's, in concert because his music was written down in sheet music and then many people copied it down again.
The (copy-righted) music of today is not allowed to be written out in sheet music for all to enjoy. It is only available to us on CDs which aren't going to last as long as most people seem to think. Sometime after the decay of the music industry the CDs will slowly lose their memory, the few tapes that exist will be practically worthless, and who ever uses a LP anymore? How will we listen to our favorite musicians then? The music can't be reproduced there is no sheet music to reproduce it from.
Devil Ducky
>closed standards like that only hurt business.
How? It's not like this is Sony saying that only Sony products can use a memory stick while their competitors stand by watching. There are no competitors standing by watching helplessly. They are all in on it. The hardware producers make sales, the movie format producers make sales. You don't want to buy DVD? Buy a VCR and video cassette tapes... it doesn't matter the money goes to the exact same place.
Devil Ducky
Only problem I see with that is IBM will surely want to buy a well-known distro (if they didn't make their own). In the US the obvious choice would be Red Hat, some other options could be SUSE, Debian, Mandrake, and I don't think Slackware is a viable option for this discussion.
:-)
But for discussion sake they choose to buy Red Hat. They take last week's earning from Thinkpads and buy up all of the stock. No more Red Hat bumper stickers, no more pictures of penguins wearing red fedoras (always looked to me like a penguin that just got laid by Carmen San Diego). But now they also control GNOME.
I believe that the GNOME/KDE debate is one of the best things happening to the linux world. It spawns better graphics, stabler desktops, more built-in features, more customizationabilty, etc. Who knows what would happen in IBM's hands?
Sorry, I forgot where I was going with this, just make up whatever ending you want. All I ask is that in your ending I sound smart.
Devil Ducky
While I'm sure revenge is on the minds of those in charge (and mine actually) but IBM wouldn't waste millions for such as a lowly purpose. This type of revenge is what makes them happiest, a step into the future.
AIX (and the others) has been floundering for years. IBM has by this time put more money than most of us can imagine into developing UNIX/AIX software/hardware. We (should) all know what MS did to them.
Now comes an opprotunity to:
1. Regain a use for their most of software and hardware.
2. Seek revenge on Microsoft
3. Gain popularity with a community that used to hate it
4. Be one of the firsts in the market
5. Have all future developing & testing done free/cheap
Personally I wonder why more *IX companies aren't doing the same things.
Devil Ducky
>The CPO is somebody who knows exactly how far they can go without pissing off their customers.
Right, Every company is going to do as much as they can get away with as long as it makes them more money. If they stop their actions just short of pissing off their customers what damage is done? As it is now they don't bother to stop short they just go forth and then apologize (sometimes).
Sure they're not doing it in the name of privacy but that is still what is being accomplished.
Devil Ducky
The government doesn't trust the average schmo to find his way home let alone to build a rocket. Since it is them (and their other government friends) that control all of the technology in the space buisness do you think they are going to let just anybody use it? Not without paying dearly, at least. The biggest downside (to them) is how much they have to pay to keep up the illusion of high prices. They could be using that money for much better purposes... like invading Canada... or measuring the speed of various Catsups/Ketchups.
;-)
Some Picket Signs for this one:
"If you can't trust your citizens who can you trust?"
"Come on, this is rocketry not brain surgery."
"Heinz, Hunts, who cares?"
Devil Ducky
I always use bgates@microsoft.com
;-) but it screws up their already overworked servers, poor, poor, NT boxen.
I also fill out all contact information:
Bill Gates
C/O Microsoft Corp.
1 Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
1 (425) 882-8080
And I check the check box "Please Send Me Spam"
I figure no one really gets the emails (at least not after I started this
I was just checking on Yahoo Maps to double check the zip code (I rarely get that right) and I noticed that http://encarta.msn.com is listed as their website not http://www.microsoft.com as I would expect.
Devil Ducky
The GNOME and KDE competition are like the long gone days of Paul McCartney competing with John Lennon to see who could write the best song. In the end they both made the band better than it ever could have been with only one of them, this was proven in their later careers.
;-)
Linuxconf reminds me more of the... Backstreet Boys or N'Sync. The whole band is really only there for show, no one of substinance would listen to them unless made to by their daughter, and frankly the thought of solo careers scares the bejezus out of me. This turned out to be a pretty accurate comparison
I admit it, back when my machine was RedHat based I used linuxconf, and once a short while after I has switched to Slackware I tried to install it (I don't know I think I lost my mind) But after formatting and reinstalling Slackware (it was the only way I could get linuxconf off of my system in under 6 months) I never tried that again.
Devil Ducky
>White Anglo-Saxon Protestant ruling class
That's WASP not WAP.
As far as I can tell WAP stands for Witches Against Puritans, and who can blame them? I truly dislike those Puritans, what with their flashy hats, turkey dinners, influenza, and new world order. Argh.
Devil Ducky
According to the story the device had a Tux Logo on it, it never said "Linux Compatible." And even if it did say that all they would have to prove is they had one succesful test on a linux machine and then they broke no false advertising laws only stretched a few.
:) But it is that infringement that is the threat behind the stance Microsoft, Novell, IBM, Apple, and everyone else who support 'Compatible' third-party products.
The only obvious law they would have broken would be trademark infringement (Linux owns "Linux" and all of it's pronounciations
I don't think Linus would have the time, but he could nominate someone to look into these situations on his behalf. That someone would be helped by the entire community pointing out the offenders and then (s)he would test the complaint and take the neccessary action (a letter to the manufacturer should generally be enough.)
Devil Ducky
>Then why are you using c++ style commenting?
// instead of /* one line of text */
:-)
I use
simply because I'm lazy, and GCC didn't complain.
That's why I code after all, too lazy to do anything else, and GCC didn't complain.
Devil Ducky
I know I don't have any fancy links to prove my points but here they are anyway.
RMS did NOT invent Free Software. In the beginning all software was free/open-source. The original hackers didn't care about closing everything up to keep it "secure" (Many still don't) That was the invention of the PHBs that followed. RMS crusaded to re-free the software.
That "side effect" of free software being changable is one of the original reasons for leaving the source open, and the reason the PHBs shut the source down (it's very hard to sell software that's open source.) The freedom of choice that RMS so vehemotly supports is the real "side effect."
In fact some of those old free programs are still in use today, just another side effect.
Devil Ducky
they can't catch the evil pron runners that would take recources away from figuring out who is really under 13 on ICQ.
Devil Ducky
You seem to have forgotten the other major project that NASA has been working on: The Mars landings. All of these probes (that keep crashing) are being sent there to explore for a hopeful manned mission. I read somewhere (I think on /.) about a time schedule for the manned mission being soon after the space station nears completion.
Devil Ducky
The average windows user is smart/lucky enough to share a folder on their hard drive if given just the right instructions, I see it happen all of the time.
It's not the FTP client that would be hard to implement it's the FTP server.
Devil Ducky
he didn't mean personal *cough*i mean campaign income, he meant income to allay the costs of running and maintaining a web site.
But where could this concept of government ads lead? "This IRS audit brought to you by H&R Block... If you had used us you would not have been audited." "This speeding ticket is sponsored by Allstate.. Your rates just went up." "The 'Howard Stern' Voting Booth."
Oh, the humanity.
Devil Ducky
"No one has ever been fired for buying IBM" is something they used to say at IBM (and still should).
However, you can not say the same thing about Microsoft. At least not without adding the lines from the Dilbert comic -> I (almost) quote "There we're a few suicides and more than our share of lynches but those have statistcal clustering written all over them"
Devil Ducky
>I don't think SMB wasn't designed
FIX:
I don't think SMB was designed...
Devil Ducky
>At least one implementation of an FTP server is freely available on every OS I can think of.
True, FTP is on (practically) every OS. But it's not designed for streaming traffic. I don't think SMB wasn't designed for streaming either, but it was adapted to it. SMB doesn't come built into every OS but it does come built into one that FTP is not included in -> Windows.
When Dell started this idea and they had to ask the inevitable question "What network protocol do we use? FTP, a standard but it would require special software for windows users, or SMB, not a standard but would require no extra software for windows users?" What do you think they would choose? What would you choose in their shoes, honestly?
The only good news in this rant is that thanks to an ingenious program (I'm not a developer, nor do I have anything to do with project) called Samba SMB is available to all of the Unices. I know Macs have some implementation of SMB (I don't know what it's called).
So that pretty much takes care of Dell's problem. That is if they even bothered to care about non-windows users and I would be truly surprised if they did.
Devil Ducky