I think that he was trying to say that most _users_ use KDE, which is probably true(increasingly true).
but then again, everyone stop bringing up KDE, this story is bout evolution =P
Re:5 substantial reasons why GNOME is obsolete
on
No GNOME For Solaris 9
·
· Score: 2, Informative
1). Well, I think that the main thing that's kept GNOME alive is the number of gtk1 apps. This will change with gtk2.
2). I agree, both mozilla and khtml are very standards compliant.
3). antialiasing is not out with Qt 3.0. It was first implemented by Keith Packard (the writer of xrender) as a patch for Qt 2.2.2. It was introduced into base qt in 2.3.0. Since then there has been 2.3.1 and 3.0 now. It was first implemented in Qt over a year ago.
And, GNOME 2.0 and QT 3.0's timetable is NOT the same. GNOME 2.0, according to Sun's website, will comeout MIDDLE of NEXT year. While Qt3 is out NOW and kde3 will be out in a few months (feb 2002).
Except that C++ is basically the standard for GUI programming (except for Java maybe). C simply isn't used anymore in either the Windows or Mac worlds. It's basically only used in Motif and GTK in the UNIX world.
You can port Qt/X11 to Windows pretty easily (provided you knew enough Xlib and Win32 api). The seperation of X11 code is very well done in Qt (the qfoobar_x11.cxx files, about 20 of them).
Since it is GPL'd, if anyone wants to do it, go ahead:)>.
Their reasoning for different licenses for different platforms is that X11 is based upon free software (so Qt should be free software for it), while Windows, and the vast majority of Windows stuff is not free software (so Qt should not be). It'd really the idea of mixing in with your crowd to be accepted, which is very valid, imho.
The difference is that GTK+ in Windows at it's present state sucks. It's slow and uses non-native widgets. With Qt, on the other hand, you can't tell what app is Qt-based and non Qt-based.
If you are looking at an alternative, I would suggest WxWindows.
You've never heard of Qt/Windows Non-Commercial?
You can't develop GPL'd apps (the gpl is incomptible, but you can use less restrictive licences such as BSD and MIT).
kde.themes.org never updates because themes.org is down.
there were a LOT of kde 1.x themes, but the 2.0 rewrite broke all of them..
the themes in kde-look.org have to be compiled because they are the equivalent of gtk-engines.. they are not simple pixmap themes but rather done from source (much much much faster).
some of the kde themes are already packaged in debian.. look at kde-theme-xxx AND kdeartwork-theme-xxx.
you do not need any lib dependencies if you are installing kde themes, just apt-get install kde-devel..
(btw, downgrade your automake from 1.5 to 1.4, for right now, 1.5 doesn't work)
Still, using XML in configuration files has no advantage, so usage of it in OSX is moot point
Re:KDE has got all the basics down
on
Five Years of KDE
·
· Score: 1
sure you can... use sawfish+kicker+kdesktop, it works well since sawfish uses the unified WM hints.
kde cvs has those kinds of key binding support tho.. i switch back to kwim+kicker when I use kde3. I'd argue that kde is a lot more customizabity than GNOME as well.
right click on toolbar, then you can chose text aside icon, text only, icon only, or text under icon.
icons>
kde icons are specially developed for usability, unlike other desktop environments and OS's (OSX's "cool" icons come to mind).
Re:Congrats and thanks to KDE
on
Five Years of KDE
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
1)proper Drag-n-Drop everywhere.
true
2) integrated voice activation
true
3) An easy way to script out application action (like AppleScript)
Uh, it's called dcop.
4) XML for everything, and a VERY organized file structure (This is more of a linux thing).
Why exactly would you want XML for everything? XML is just a buzzword for apple to capitalize on, imho. XML isn't the fastest thing to parse either. Kconfig's key=value is much faster.
5) display pdf (or postscript) which makes making PDFs trvially easy
i heard kprint would have this soon (if it doesn't already). any app that can print could make a pdf (like adobe pdfmaker).
6) for that matter, a 4th generation display engine
sorta, all widgets in qt _are_ objects.
7) A proper user interface (workflow reads like a page, except for tools that you "pick up" from teh bottom/dock)
Not sure what you mean.. but "proper" is a very subjective term.
8) Lots of properly integrated apps
KDE is very integrated. I'd say OSX is much less (Classic).
9) A proper application structure that reduces clutter yet is more powerful than any current structure.
KDE or GNOME's.desktop files?
9) A lot of other little things that OSX has in plentitude (miscellaneous coolnesses).
Uhm, with the logic used in your post, I could argue that OSX doesn't have a proper Windows-like taskbar, and MANY other features.
They did drop it, checkout the threads in the orignal newsgroup posting:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=53tkvv%24b4 j% 40newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
Yes, but Redhat has never provided enough support to package KDE properly. Bero and others are doing a fine job, but they can't compete with the level of support RH is giving GNOME (a big mistake imho).
well, blackbox used to be my WM of choice, but there hasn't been a new version in over a year. the author of blackbox, Brad Hughes, was hired by Trolltech (makers of Qt), so he devotes his time in working on the upcoming Qt3 release instead of Blackbox:-)
That doesn't mean blackbox is completely dead however.. the blackbox community makes styles all the time (wish themes.org were back up fully).
Actually, to clarify, KDE does not include KWM. KWM has been dead for over a year now (last was in KDE 1.x). The modern KDE window manager is called kwin.
Also, KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.4 use a unfied system of window manager hints called _NET_WM. kwin supports, this, and as does sawfish. I think the other major window manager that also supports this is Blackbox. So, KDE also works very well with other window managers, but favors (and includes kwin). One could use sawfish with KDE, or kwin with GNOME 1.4, for example.
Actually, kword copies a better app than starwriter does.
Starwriter copies Microsoft Word, a not-so-versitile program that has thousands of useless features which hardly anyone uses and which contribute to overall bloat.
kword copies Adobe Framemaker, a very versitile frame based program that can pass of as either a word processor or a professional desktop publishing program. It has features which 99% of the population needs or could ever want.
Comparing kword and starwriter is a bad joke. the only thing that kword lacks is more export filters. with them, it'd be perfect, imho.
Slashdot Mirror
I think that he was trying to say that most _users_ use KDE, which is probably true(increasingly true).
but then again, everyone stop bringing up KDE, this story is bout evolution =P
1). Well, I think that the main thing that's kept GNOME alive is the number of gtk1 apps. This will change with gtk2.
2). I agree, both mozilla and khtml are very standards compliant.
3). antialiasing is not out with Qt 3.0. It was first implemented by Keith Packard (the writer of xrender) as a patch for Qt 2.2.2. It was introduced into base qt in 2.3.0. Since then there has been 2.3.1 and 3.0 now. It was first implemented in Qt over a year ago.
And, GNOME 2.0 and QT 3.0's timetable is NOT the same. GNOME 2.0, according to Sun's website, will comeout MIDDLE of NEXT year. While Qt3 is out NOW and kde3 will be out in a few months (feb 2002).
And that's why the the tarball has a LICENSE.GPL in it.
Do you really expect press releases like that to include words like "GPL"?
www.kde-look.org
try the liquid style. gnome can't even compare.
Except that C++ is basically the standard for GUI programming (except for Java maybe). C simply isn't used anymore in either the Windows or Mac worlds. It's basically only used in Motif and GTK in the UNIX world.
I said this once before, but it needs to be said again.
Are you telling me that Sun doesn't have enough money to buy a Qt license?
Sun can't afford Qt licenses? You've got to be kidding me.
You can port Qt/X11 to Windows pretty easily (provided you knew enough Xlib and Win32 api). The seperation of X11 code is very well done in Qt (the qfoobar_x11.cxx files, about 20 of them).
:)>.
Since it is GPL'd, if anyone wants to do it, go ahead
Their reasoning for different licenses for different platforms is that X11 is based upon free software (so Qt should be free software for it), while Windows, and the vast majority of Windows stuff is not free software (so Qt should not be). It'd really the idea of mixing in with your crowd to be accepted, which is very valid, imho.
The difference is that GTK+ in Windows at it's present state sucks. It's slow and uses non-native widgets. With Qt, on the other hand, you can't tell what app is Qt-based and non Qt-based.
If you are looking at an alternative, I would suggest WxWindows.
You've never heard of Qt/Windows Non-Commercial?
You can't develop GPL'd apps (the gpl is incomptible, but you can use less restrictive licences such as BSD and MIT).
No you don't.
All the AC posts in this thread are by one person. And they don't know anything about moc in reality.
kde.themes.org never updates because themes.org is down.
there were a LOT of kde 1.x themes, but the 2.0 rewrite broke all of them..
the themes in kde-look.org have to be compiled because they are the equivalent of gtk-engines.. they are not simple pixmap themes but rather done from source (much much much faster).
some of the kde themes are already packaged in debian.. look at kde-theme-xxx AND kdeartwork-theme-xxx.
you do not need any lib dependencies if you are installing kde themes, just apt-get install kde-devel..
(btw, downgrade your automake from 1.5 to 1.4, for right now, 1.5 doesn't work)
Still, using XML in configuration files has no advantage, so usage of it in OSX is moot point
sure you can... use sawfish+kicker+kdesktop, it works well since sawfish uses the unified WM hints.
kde cvs has those kinds of key binding support tho.. i switch back to kwim+kicker when I use kde3. I'd argue that kde is a lot more customizabity than GNOME as well.
yeah, the original name of kate was kant(pronounced kunt) people thought it was too close to cunt :)...
:)
of course, I don't think the original authors had english as their first language
use objprelink, reduced load time by 30%
use kdeinit, reduced load time, and reduced memory usage
toolbar buttons>
right click on toolbar, then you can chose text aside icon, text only, icon only, or text under icon.
icons>
kde icons are specially developed for usability, unlike other desktop environments and OS's (OSX's "cool" icons come to mind).
1)proper Drag-n-Drop everywhere.
.desktop files?
true
2) integrated voice activation
true
3) An easy way to script out application action (like AppleScript)
Uh, it's called dcop.
4) XML for everything, and a VERY organized file structure (This is more of a linux thing).
Why exactly would you want XML for everything? XML is just a buzzword for apple to capitalize on, imho. XML isn't the fastest thing to parse either. Kconfig's key=value is much faster.
5) display pdf (or postscript) which makes making PDFs trvially easy
i heard kprint would have this soon (if it doesn't already). any app that can print could make a pdf (like adobe pdfmaker).
6) for that matter, a 4th generation display engine
sorta, all widgets in qt _are_ objects.
7) A proper user interface (workflow reads like a page, except for tools that you "pick up" from teh bottom/dock)
Not sure what you mean.. but "proper" is a very subjective term.
8) Lots of properly integrated apps
KDE is very integrated. I'd say OSX is much less (Classic).
9) A proper application structure that reduces clutter yet is more powerful than any current structure.
KDE or GNOME's
9) A lot of other little things that OSX has in plentitude (miscellaneous coolnesses).
Uhm, with the logic used in your post, I could argue that OSX doesn't have a proper Windows-like taskbar, and MANY other features.
They did drop it, checkout the threads in the orignal newsgroup posting:4 j% 40newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=53tkvv%24b
Yes, but Redhat has never provided enough support to package KDE properly. Bero and others are doing a fine job, but they can't compete with the level of support RH is giving GNOME (a big mistake imho).
well, blackbox used to be my WM of choice, but there hasn't been a new version in over a year. the author of blackbox, Brad Hughes, was hired by Trolltech (makers of Qt), so he devotes his time in working on the upcoming Qt3 release instead of Blackbox :-)
That doesn't mean blackbox is completely dead however.. the blackbox community makes styles all the time (wish themes.org were back up fully).
Actually, to clarify, KDE does not include KWM. KWM has been dead for over a year now (last was in KDE 1.x). The modern KDE window manager is called kwin.
Also, KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.4 use a unfied system of window manager hints called _NET_WM. kwin supports, this, and as does sawfish. I think the other major window manager that also supports this is Blackbox. So, KDE also works very well with other window managers, but favors (and includes kwin). One could use sawfish with KDE, or kwin with GNOME 1.4, for example.
> You crack me up... got any other hacky workarounds to make up for shitty design and coding in KDE?
You mean shitty design and coding of g++?
Actually, kword copies a better app than starwriter does. Starwriter copies Microsoft Word, a not-so-versitile program that has thousands of useless features which hardly anyone uses and which contribute to overall bloat. kword copies Adobe Framemaker, a very versitile frame based program that can pass of as either a word processor or a professional desktop publishing program. It has features which 99% of the population needs or could ever want. Comparing kword and starwriter is a bad joke. the only thing that kword lacks is more export filters. with them, it'd be perfect, imho.
both of which is possible with xrender