Correction: Insufficient government control + Government corruption = Poverty
Have you ever been to India before, buttonhead? India is a Functional Anarchy. Everyone does ANYTHING he pleases and goes scottfree. No other country would function with a system as in India. It is very stable but has a big Inertia for development.
You claim that western religions were spread by force. That is certainly true of Islam, and to a small extent it's true of RCC and the LDS groups. However, as documented above, they are most definitely not Christian. I'd be fascinated to see you defend your assertion that genuine, bible-based Christianity ever spread by force. If it was done, it was not following the bible in doing so, and therefore most likely was some apostate derivation. -- Ever heard of the Holy Emperor Charlemagne? He engineered the world's largest homicide by branding people 'pagans' and either converting them or killing them. Of course you haven't heard, since these facts are politically censored.
-- Christianity does not involve mountains of literature in order to get the key point; the bible has the simple, understandable, meant for everyone message available throughout. It does not require, as you state some Hindu books do, an intermediary to interpret and explain it to you. If you wish to start to plumb its depths, there are shelves of commentaries to assist in that, but you can do it alone and get what is key in very short order. -- This is true of Hinduism also. There are textbooks out there which precisely explain meanings to the point (Bhagavat Gita for ex.). The point is, there is scope for research into deeper realms here. -- From what you have said, Hinduism requires that one be accepted as an acolyte by a guru in order to be able to understand Hinduism. -- Not necessarily. People can read and follow methods for self-enlightenment. It is only easier done under a Guru, but not necessarily. Gautama Buddha had no Guru. A whole string of saints had no Gurus. They were their own masters. -- I find it quite interesting that you're seriously accepting the Atlantis myth. That's self-refuting, no help needed from me on that one. Then you suggest investigating David Frawley, who you claim went from Christianity to Hindu. If you read anything about him, you would realize he left the RCC to become a Hindu, he did not leave Christianity. Again, see documentation above or I can provide you with vast amounts more about why the Roman Catholic Church is anything but Christian. Short form: it does not come close to following the bible. -- Coming round about only to proove me right. Thanks man! I believe in Christ, I was educated in a Christian School and attended Mass. So I am a christian too. But I am a Hindu too. No one has excommunicated me from my religion. Dr Frawley is another example. -- I find it quite interesting that you're seriously accepting the Atlantis myth. -- Don't go by atlan.org. It is badly written. Better use your brain, Geological maps(NGS dec-1982 oceanocartographic) and a proper timeline. Remember that the Earth is geologically VERY active and to travel back in time and interpret history, we must follow changes in geology. Most historians don't take this aspect and fail miserably to get a continous link in history, one which links ALL myths of ALL cultures in simple logic. I don't expect you to know what I do about Atlantis, because it is really VAST (I thought of writing about it, but it's better to incubate for a while. I'm just 20+ BTW so I do have time). Now more and more satellite images are going against the generally accepted theories, but there are lot of big Egos out there which will never accept it. Just assume that this is the tip of the Iceberg. Too many things tumble out of this angle in history and fall into place, creating a Pandora's box. It gives justice to myths of all religions. A very touchy subject. So forget it.
-- Did you ever realize that with a notable exception, world religions are based on the individuals who spent a significant amount of time attempting to understand the world/gods/truth/death/life etc. The exception of course is our Lord Jesus Christ, who at the age of twelve was not seeking, but instead already providing answers. Yes, He is different. Only the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead; Siddhartha and Mohammed and othe
This packaging part is very true. I know many people who get software for Windows every week from some magazine CD or another, install it and the deinstall it when they don't like or are bored of it. This becomes a habit for them, particularly concerning games and utilties. Click on Setup.exe, follow instructions, lo [reboot?]. Go to installed programs, select software and deinstall. get rid of it [reboot?]. I know that too well since I belonged to that crowd about 4 years ago. When will it be so easy on Linux? Sure, installing an RPM in graphical mode is easy- click it and start of. GNOrpm or kpackage or Software installer would do it. When it complains for dependancies is when the trouble starts (usually lib*.so.* missing). It never mentions the package to download. So off you go to google or rpmfind.
This is especially painful if you don't have a permanent connection to the net, connecting is rare and costly, not to mention painful for the impatient. That is when urpmi or something similar is useless. That is when you are entirely dependant on some computer magazine to give off a distro (usually slack or Redhat) and linux isn't common or cheap enough to be available in any other way. Or else put DAP or flashget or some of those download accelerators to work all night only to find out you have to download a whole group of packages to support those you downloaded before. (ten 1mb packages in 10 hours. damn)
Luckily for me these days are gone and I have a permanent ethernet connect and draw all the benefits using Gentoo. But there is still a (decreasing) crowd out there in this situation. Until packages provide everything needed by the program and install the most recent libraries if required as in windows, newbies will not like the system. Perhaps there should be a super-rpm with many rpms contained inside it, and a script to decide which ones to install. It will certainly help those who don't have the benefits of broadband. Magazine CDs could easily send updates in such situations.
Tragically misinformed? ROTFL. You don't know what you say:-D. 'Attempt to mainstream eastern religions'. Did you even read my text properly? Western religions have been doing it all along and their attempts are forgiven? Some priest puts a piece of bread in the well and proclaims that all who drink the water become christians. Gullible people 'converted'. Some stupid miracle, a magic trick and some others got 'converted'. Some even went to the extent of 'converting' Orangutans in Indonesia. Eastern religions don't believe in 'convertions'. They believe in Dharma, One Dharma, One Law. Western religions never did either, but political motives hijacked these religions, adulterated them and spread them around BY Force. And people whose ancestors got converted don't want to admit this. They suffer from an acute Inferiority complex, it seems.
Believe what you think is right. Hinduism gives you this freedom. If I don't believe in rebirth, I am still a Hindu. If I don't believe in Krishna, I am still Hindu. If I don't believe in Shiva, I am still a hindu. If I am an Athiest, I still can call myself hindu, as long as I live harmoniously in society. If I don't believe in I am still a Hindu. I pray to Christ everyday and visit the Church, I am still a Hindu. If you don't believe in Christ, You are not a Christian. Period.
Do you have *any* idea of the amount of literature behind Hinduism? Definately not. Even I don't exactly because it is too vast. Even a sampling of it is very large and very deep in comparison to the entire Judiac and Christian works, I'm willing to bet. The philosophies have so many angles, deductions etc. that they are too deep to fathom. Christianity, on the other hand is too shallow for this. As a sampling please try to read these books : the Vedas : Riga, Yajur, Arharva, Saama. The half-dozen or so Upanishadas, Philosphies (6 in number, main being Sankhya and Vedanta). Read up a book on Vedanta, and I will bet you anything you won't understand a word. You need to have that mind-set and a guru to explain. For the Genesis, compare the Puranas - 18 in number - each the size of the Genesis itself, and definitely more detailed and scientific (if you sieve it through the symbolisms, that is. On first sight it appears totally haywire). And that is the tip of the iceberg. Which language has the highest amount of literature? English, German, Latin, Hebrew?. No sir, it is Sanskrit (maybe English has broken its record now). And most of it pertains to what is refered as hinduism. Pali, another language of Ancient India also has appreciable literature connected with Buddhism.
The Bible is merely a well-written Text-book for the masses. The references lie elsewhere. No one can prove a Text-book wrong, but one can find it inadequate for further research. Nothing wrong with a textbook. Hinduism needs it too, since most hindus don't know their religion very well.
How about a visit to this site (www.atlan.org)? The author is clearly not a Hindu and he has made an attempt to understand tantric symbolisms. But he clearly has studied both the Hindu scriptures and the Biblical ones and draws his conclusions objectively. Perhaps you will get a better idea of the Flood, as explained in the Genesis, the Matsya Purana and the Vedas.
As for recommending a book from a former Hindu, I can recommend many from former Christians (Dr David Frawley (www.vedanet.com) and plenty others), but I don't want to pick fights. There are plenty of websites ( www.atributetohinduism.com ) but I doubt their full objectivity on the matter. I highly recommend this book : ISBN: 8120810058 Gods Sages and Kings... , written by a former Christian.
I am not making a case for Hinduism and against Christianity. I am stating a fact. Study both philosophies and draw your own conclusions. Mostly people who haven't talk out of their ars (me included, if you like: I just quote the studies of those who did).
People have various levels of understanding, and to each his own. One must not push
>You claim that through Vipassana and self->absorption you can achieve nirvana. Yet the core >of it is self-acceptance and absence of self->judgment, which ultimately means accepting past >sin and saying it doesn't matter. That is >tragically incorrect, God will not allow sin in >His presence; we must be washed clean, and only >a sinless being can do that. Only God's own Son >can wash us clean, we cannot do it ourselves, we >are all filthy.
This attitude will ensure that your brain and self will remain filthy forever. Wait for Jesus to come and relieve you. Wait all your life and die even. Even your dead spirit will not find hapiness. Brainwash yourself to believe that whatever you want. Your thinking will not turn the world upside down. Pray to whatever God, Jesus or any blah! you want, but the seas aren't going to shrink, that luxurious bank of riverside across which seems so nice to you, so inviting, will not come to you. No Jesus is going to carry you on his back. At the most He will provide a boat. It is You who should use it. I was sceptic about Vipassana before I went. I detest rituals of any religion and don't follow them unless they have meaning which I understand, which is scientific and logical. Vipassana is entirely logical. Try it and then decide, or remain blinded by your books..
-You asserted: --There is no difference between Buddhism and --Christianity -That is so amazingly inaccurate that it boggles -the mind. Implicit in your post is that you - -would consider Hinduism and Christianity close -as well, I gather.
This is so amazingly accurate it boggled even my mind. That was after doing a course in Vipassana. There is no only One sinless person. Open your mind. There were many and will be many in future. Perhaps for the people in a section of the Middle East there was only Jesus (What happened to Moses and Mohammed). Each had his own way to explain the Laws of Dharma, and each had their own faithful following. This never meant there weren't others. Frog in Pond Mentality. Frog in pond refues to believe there is anything beyond his pond. Whether he believes it or not, it will not affect the truth, just his own narrow views.
I emphasize my previous statement: I know whatever I say here makes no sense to you. Check this link to my previous post here [slashdot.org] and see here [dhamma.org] about Vipassana. Until you practise Vipassana at least once, you will not know the meaning of your own religion, let alone Buddhism
All religions preach the same. Various seers explain it differently. Various peoples interpret it differently. But it is never understood without prectice. I have only done a 10 day course in Vipassana, but even that was enough. There are two types of people (according to the Vedas), Aryans (not the filthy German interpretation) or noble people, people who are self-realized and Dasyus, people who blindly follow what others tell them or write in books, slaves of their minds' whims and, what you call 'nature'.
I used to take your view exactly about a month ago, but now, no. It has been proved, and the method is scientific. Murderers have become overnight saints. Emperor Ashoka, the person who spread Buddhism to the East, was a blood-thrsty tyrant. He came across this method, followed it and completely renounced and detested his old ways. There are many many examples, but since you do not know these common stories (common in India) there is no point citing them. Today prison jailbirds have also graduated by destroying their sins. And you actually get to percieve it being done.
When one experiences what these sins do to our body, one's nature is tuned to avoid them. Very few people have been like that, but it isn't impossible.
What you say - Only His free gift can get us absolved. OK. So what is that free gift. A kiss on your cheek. Tell me, dear man, how is that going to absolve you of your sins?
The free gift is this very way of absolving ones sins. And it requires a person to give himself totally to the Buddha (the person who will show you the path - In this case Jesus, Dharma - Universal Laws of nature from which no one can escape, and the fraternity of the learned people who will help you.
Whatever you have quoted Christ as saying is just His way of saying the Buddhist prayer:
Buddham Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself (take shelter in) to the Buddha - tathaagata - one who has walked the path to the sinless state - Nirvana. Dhammam Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself to the laws of nature, which is applicable to all, whether the person calls himself a Hindu Muslim Christian Mormon whatever. As far as nature is concerned, you are flash and bone. Sangham Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself to the Sangha, the group of like-minded people who will help us (better known to you as apostles or holy order). In other words: Give yourself entirely in full faith to Jesus,
Give yourself entirely in full faith to God,
Give yourself entirely in full faith to the Apostles or Holy Order.
And you will get through to absolving your sins.
No One person can be called the God-man. Any person who follows the path
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Note the different emphasis? Now repeat the above biblical statement, and when I comes, slap your chest with emphasis. You will get it.
I am my own master. No other man is the master. No other man is my master. No other man can lead me on the right path. It is I (not you or he or them) who is my own master. I is Unique, He isn't. If you have to seek God, do it within yourself, don't depend on others (Even Jesus Christ) to do it for you. A person like Jesus or Gautama who have walked the path to Nirvana can only show the way, they won't carry you with them again.
A person who has attained Nirvana cannot put his experiences in words, because words are limited in use. When they mean I, they mean 'I' without changing its meaning from person to person. But languages are inadequate. The other person interprets it as 'He' which is not what They meant.
Without practicing some sort of Vipassana meditation (insight), these people never get it right. They stick some philosophy to it and write, and rewrite their books. How many Testaments of the Bible are there, and how many interpretations? The Buddhists also stuck the Sankhya Philosophy (given by a sage called Kapila) and made sects out of their own interpretations (Mahayana and Theravada) and stuck daggers at each others. Every religion is the same
If Jesus or Gautama were alive today they would have slapped their foreheads in frustration, or perhaps died of shame
It is you 'Christians' who have been trying to prove Christ a liar all along
I know you will find this statement harsh, but it is the bitter truth. Why don't you take 12 days off and join your nearest Vipassana center? They are worldwide. Vipassana is a technique which emphasizes on self observation. Each has his own observaions and experiences. So be it. Don't listen to what 'Others' tell you. Acceptance of a fact or fiction by a fraternity of fools does not make it a truth, even if the fools make the majority. If you are a devout Christian, you will only become more devout, but differently. For a change you will begin to appreciate the Bible by interpreting it properly
You are right sir. *Every* religion is based around the same ideas. Every religion is started by a seer (or a long string of seers as in Hinduism) who practised Vipassana (meditation for insight) which aimed at removing all sins accumalated in the inner conscious level of the mind, the root cause of misery. A stage is reached in this technique when the sins come out in the form of terrible pain on the body. If the pain is observed without reaction (objectively) the sin is destroyed. Destruction of all sins in the inner conscious leads to a state of bliss (nirvana) and the path leading to it frees one from the natural limitations (in perception) of the mind.
Unfortunately the exact implications of this procedure are only understood on an experiential level, and even if I try to explain my experience with the technique, it will never be effective
The human mind has two parts, the upper conscious and the inner sub-conscious. The former is voluntary and limited in ability, while the latter is very powerful but involuntary. A large barrier exists between the two. The overly powerful subconscious controls our instincts - what apparrently come automatically to us. It controls every moment of our system and is in control of the senses(it itself is called the 'sixth sense'). Vipassana attempts to completely break the barrier and make the sub-conscious entirely voluntary. These barriars are mainly caused by cravings and aversions ( Vikaras - it is called) caused due to our Karma (actions). These are broken only by practise
The process of learning to write the alphabet A in kindergarten is entirely voluntary. The process of writing Anything now for you is involuntary (you think about 'Anything' and your hand 'automatically' writes it for you.) Now the process is done by subconscious. Practice has taught the subconscious a task which becomes a habit. Experience at sensory level also teaches the subconscious. Just learning Philosophy means it will stay in your conscious for ever, never influence your life, just be a topic for discussion.
Do not kill. Do not tell lies. Do not do this do not do that.
do this, do that.
Every religion tells you this. But does it sink in? No!
Experience through Vipassana, meditation and penance has taught these Great People - Seers or Buddhas - the effect a bad act causes on the barrier - the misery it causes. It becomes a habit for them to avoid all sins because of this.Bearing pain is nothing for them since they have conquered the subconscious. But sins are a no-no. Why do you think Christ said 'God please forgive them for they know not what they do?'. Pain and dying was nothing to him. The effect of the sin the men were committing on the men themselves troubled him more. And they knew not what they did.
I know whatever I say here makes no sense to you. Check this link to my previous post here and see here about Vipassana. Until you practise Vipassana at least once, you will not know the meaning of your own religion, let alone Buddhism
Before I did Vipassana, I used to revel at people who discussed religious philosophy. After, I found out all these were fools, idiots who know not what they speak. Let your experience be your own knowledge. A philosophy wholly accepted by a fraternity of fools doesn't become the truth
Philosphy may not be wrong at all, but it is meaningless until realised. Once realised (even fractionally), what Gautama Buddha or Jesus said will get clearer and clearer.
There is no difference between Buddhism and Christianity. There is only difference in perception and interpretation.
There is a subtle science involved in it. What the Buddha taught was a practical method for looking 'inside' oneself. A technique of meditation which will lead to Nirvana (enlightenment) for anyone who follows it. No one person has a monopoly for truth. There is no 'One Jesus' or 'One Mohammed' or 'One Gautama', but there were, are and will be in the future man Buddhas (enlightened ones - The Ancient Indian seers of the Vedas, Mahavira, Jesus, Gautama, Mohammed all counted - Those who followed these methods and broke the barriers of untruth - the limitations of the perceptions of the human mind). The technique was rediscovered by Gautama Buddha and later taught in universities like Taxila (North Pakistan or Kashmir today) and Nalanda. People from far out visited these (Huen Tsang and Fa Hien from China are well known visitors to Nalanda. Jesus Christ is also said to be a disciple at Taxila during his 19 'unknown' years).
The result of the meditation for a person is quick (depending on person), but the method is a bit tedious.
Today the method has been mingled with all sorts of philosophies etc. to become a religion. Unfortunately the insightful knowledge obtained by the person who has attained this state cannot be accurately put in words as it is at an experiential level, and all the Great Ones who have tried to do so have been grossly misinterpreted, combined with philosophies, and each religion is farce in its own way (including Buddhism)
Gautama never meant it to be a religion. He had rediscovered the basis of Dharma (Universal Laws) and the technique to absolve oneself of ones sins : cravings and aversions , according to ones acts in life (Karma:)(actually - not farcically, as is claimed in all religions today) and the very basis of all the myths in the Hindu religion (which is forgotten today) and nearly all other religions.
This technique was rediscovered recently and is taught worldwide. It is called Vipassana (insight). Without practicing Vipassana at least once, I'm afraid no one has really understood religion. Its website is at www.dhamma.org
Prisoners and priests alike have greatly benefitted from it. Prisoners show the greatest changes since they are really sinners.www.prison.dhamma.org
I recommend it to all because it has a large worldwide following and I myself have attended a 10 day course and felt its benefits.It will be an eye-opener to all alike. It is a practical method, not a religious thing. People from all religions only get to know their religions better (Athiests love it too)
They should add that to the newbie FAQ, or better still, put it in the right click options of the toolbars as a toggle. Why should the option disappear from one place and reappear in another? It should remain where it was accessed before? It adds to the confusion, and perhaps some more questions on the user lists (Help!, my menu has disappeared???)
I just installed Gentoo, to try out kde 3.1. Well, it is just great. The one problem was this. The FIRST option in Konqueror setting menu is Show Menubar. Click on it by accident (which is easy since it is the first option), and you are in lost world. It was ok for me, since I know how to tinker and find out that control+M turns tyhe menu back (still it was difficult), imagine the newbie hitting this setting. WTF..
The ancients were smarter than you think. Only our arrogance makes us think the other way. The ancient Indians (of Asia) have ancient documents describing the building of airplanes, an entire book on aeronautical sciences as this articles on Vimanas tends to show. As regarding metallurgy, the Ashoka Pillar is a marvellous example, existent today in the monsoon climate of India. It is analysed as nearly 99.9% iron, but doesnot have a bit of rust.
Slashdot Mirror
Correction: Insufficient government control + Government corruption = Poverty
Have you ever been to India before, buttonhead? India is a Functional Anarchy. Everyone does ANYTHING he pleases and goes scottfree. No other country would function with a system as in India. It is very stable but has a big Inertia for development.
You claim that western religions were spread by force. That is certainly true of Islam, and to a small extent it's true of RCC and the LDS groups. However, as documented above, they are most definitely not Christian. I'd be fascinated to see you defend your assertion that genuine, bible-based Christianity ever spread by force. If it was done, it was not following the bible in doing so, and therefore most likely was some apostate derivation.
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Ever heard of the Holy Emperor Charlemagne? He engineered the world's largest homicide by branding people 'pagans' and either converting them or killing them. Of course you haven't heard, since these facts are politically censored.
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Christianity does not involve mountains of literature in order to get the key point; the bible has the simple, understandable, meant for everyone message available throughout. It does not require, as you state some Hindu books do, an intermediary to interpret and explain it to you. If you wish to start to plumb its depths, there are shelves of commentaries to assist in that, but you can do it alone and get what is key in very short order.
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This is true of Hinduism also. There are textbooks out there which precisely explain meanings to the point (Bhagavat Gita for ex.). The point is, there is scope for research into deeper realms here.
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From what you have said, Hinduism requires that one be accepted as an acolyte by a guru in order to be able to understand Hinduism.
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Not necessarily. People can read and follow methods for self-enlightenment. It is only easier done under a Guru, but not necessarily. Gautama Buddha had no Guru. A whole string of saints had no Gurus. They were their own masters.
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I find it quite interesting that you're seriously accepting the Atlantis myth. That's self-refuting, no help needed from me on that one. Then you suggest investigating David Frawley, who you claim went from Christianity to Hindu. If you read anything about him, you would realize he left the RCC to become a Hindu, he did not leave Christianity. Again, see documentation above or I can provide you with vast amounts more about why the Roman Catholic Church is anything but Christian. Short form: it does not come close to following the bible.
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Coming round about only to proove me right. Thanks man! I believe in Christ, I was educated in a Christian School and attended Mass. So I am a christian too. But I am a Hindu too. No one has excommunicated me from my religion. Dr Frawley is another example.
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I find it quite interesting that you're seriously accepting the Atlantis myth.
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Don't go by atlan.org. It is badly written. Better use your brain, Geological maps(NGS dec-1982 oceanocartographic) and a proper timeline. Remember that the Earth is geologically VERY active and to travel back in time and interpret history, we must follow changes in geology. Most historians don't take this aspect and fail miserably to get a continous link in history, one which links ALL myths of ALL cultures in simple
logic. I don't expect you to know what I do about Atlantis, because it is really VAST (I thought of writing about it, but it's better to incubate for a while. I'm just 20+ BTW so I do have time). Now more and more satellite images are going against the generally accepted theories, but there are lot of big Egos out there which will never accept it. Just assume that this is the tip of the Iceberg. Too many things tumble out of this angle in history and fall into place, creating a Pandora's box. It gives justice to myths of all religions. A very touchy subject. So forget it.
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Did you ever realize that with a notable exception, world religions are based on the individuals who spent a significant amount of time attempting to understand the world/gods/truth/death/life etc. The exception of course is our Lord Jesus Christ, who at the age of twelve was not seeking, but instead already providing answers. Yes, He is different. Only the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead; Siddhartha and Mohammed and othe
This packaging part is very true. I know many people who get software for Windows every week from some magazine CD or another, install it and the deinstall it when they don't like or are bored of it. This becomes a habit for them, particularly concerning games and utilties.
Click on Setup.exe, follow instructions, lo [reboot?]. Go to installed programs, select software and deinstall. get rid of it [reboot?]. I know that too well since I belonged to that crowd about 4 years ago.
When will it be so easy on Linux? Sure, installing an RPM in graphical mode is easy- click it and start of. GNOrpm or kpackage or Software installer would do it. When it complains for dependancies is when the trouble starts (usually lib*.so.* missing). It never mentions the package to download. So off you go to google or rpmfind.
This is especially painful if you don't have a permanent connection to the net, connecting is rare and costly, not to mention painful for the impatient. That is when urpmi or something similar is useless. That is when you are entirely dependant on some computer magazine to give off a distro (usually slack or Redhat) and linux isn't common or cheap enough to be available in any other way. Or else put DAP or flashget or some of those download accelerators to work all night only to find out you have to download a whole group of packages to support those you downloaded before. (ten 1mb packages in 10 hours. damn)
Luckily for me these days are gone and I have a permanent ethernet connect and draw all the benefits using Gentoo. But there is still a (decreasing) crowd out there in this situation. Until packages provide everything needed by the program and install the most recent libraries if required as in windows, newbies will not like the system. Perhaps there should be a super-rpm with many rpms contained inside it, and a script to decide which ones to install. It will certainly help those who don't have the benefits of broadband. Magazine CDs could easily send updates in such situations.
Tragically misinformed? ROTFL. You don't know what you say:-D. 'Attempt to mainstream eastern religions'. Did you even read my text properly?
... , written by a former Christian.
Western religions have been doing it all along and their attempts are forgiven? Some priest puts a piece of bread in the well and proclaims that all who drink the water become christians. Gullible people 'converted'. Some stupid miracle, a magic trick and some others got 'converted'. Some even went to the extent of 'converting' Orangutans in Indonesia. Eastern religions don't believe in 'convertions'. They believe in Dharma, One Dharma, One Law. Western religions never did either, but political motives hijacked these religions, adulterated them and spread them around BY Force. And people whose ancestors got converted don't want to admit this. They suffer from an acute Inferiority complex, it seems.
Believe what you think is right. Hinduism gives you this freedom. If I don't believe in rebirth, I am still a Hindu. If I don't believe in Krishna, I am still Hindu. If I don't believe in Shiva, I am still a hindu. If I am an Athiest, I still can call myself hindu, as long as I live harmoniously in society. If I don't believe in I am still a Hindu. I pray to Christ everyday and visit the Church, I am still a Hindu. If you don't believe in Christ, You are not a Christian. Period.
Do you have *any* idea of the amount of literature behind Hinduism? Definately not. Even I don't exactly because it is too vast. Even a sampling of it is very large and very deep in comparison to the entire Judiac and Christian works, I'm willing to bet. The philosophies have so many angles, deductions etc. that they are too deep to fathom. Christianity, on the other hand is too shallow for this. As a sampling please try to read these books : the Vedas : Riga, Yajur, Arharva, Saama. The half-dozen or so Upanishadas, Philosphies (6 in number, main being Sankhya and Vedanta). Read up a book on Vedanta, and I will bet you anything you won't understand a word. You need to have that mind-set and a guru to explain. For the Genesis, compare the Puranas - 18 in number - each the size of the Genesis itself, and definitely more detailed and scientific (if you sieve it through the symbolisms, that is. On first sight it appears totally haywire). And that is the tip of the iceberg. Which language has the highest amount of literature? English, German, Latin, Hebrew?. No sir, it is Sanskrit (maybe English has broken its record now). And most of it pertains to what is refered as hinduism. Pali, another language of Ancient India also has appreciable literature connected with Buddhism.
The Bible is merely a well-written Text-book for the masses. The references lie elsewhere. No one can prove a Text-book wrong, but one can find it inadequate for further research. Nothing wrong with a textbook. Hinduism needs it too, since most hindus don't know their religion very well.
How about a visit to this site (www.atlan.org)? The author is clearly not a Hindu and he has made an attempt to understand tantric symbolisms. But he clearly has studied both the Hindu scriptures and the Biblical ones and draws his conclusions objectively. Perhaps you will get a better idea of the Flood, as explained in the Genesis, the Matsya Purana and the Vedas.
As for recommending a book from a former Hindu, I can recommend many from former Christians (Dr David Frawley (www.vedanet.com) and plenty others), but I don't want to pick fights. There are plenty of websites ( www.atributetohinduism.com ) but I doubt their full objectivity on the matter. I highly recommend this book : ISBN: 8120810058 Gods Sages and Kings
I am not making a case for Hinduism and against Christianity. I am stating a fact. Study both philosophies and draw your own conclusions. Mostly people who haven't talk out of their ars (me included, if you like: I just quote the studies of those who did).
People have various levels of understanding, and to each his own. One must not push
>You claim that through Vipassana and self->absorption you can achieve nirvana. Yet the core >of it is self-acceptance and absence of self->judgment, which ultimately means accepting past >sin and saying it doesn't matter. That is >tragically incorrect, God will not allow sin in >His presence; we must be washed clean, and only >a sinless being can do that. Only God's own Son >can wash us clean, we cannot do it ourselves, we >are all filthy.
This attitude will ensure that your brain and self will remain filthy forever. Wait for Jesus to come and relieve you. Wait all your life and die even. Even your dead spirit will not find hapiness.
Brainwash yourself to believe that whatever you want. Your thinking will not turn the world upside down. Pray to whatever God, Jesus or any blah! you want, but the seas aren't going to shrink, that luxurious bank of riverside across which seems so nice to you, so inviting, will not come to you. No Jesus is going to carry you on his back. At the most He will provide a boat. It is You who should use it.
I was sceptic about Vipassana before I went. I detest rituals of any religion and don't follow them unless they have meaning which I understand, which is scientific and logical. Vipassana is entirely logical. Try it and then decide, or remain blinded by your books..
--There is no difference between Buddhism and
--Christianity
-That is so amazingly inaccurate that it boggles -the mind. Implicit in your post is that you -
-would consider Hinduism and Christianity close -as well, I gather.
This is so amazingly accurate it boggled even my mind. That was after doing a course in Vipassana. There is no only One sinless person. Open your mind. There were many and will be many in future. Perhaps for the people in a section of the Middle East there was only Jesus (What happened to Moses and Mohammed). Each had his own way to explain the Laws of Dharma, and each had their own faithful following. This never meant there weren't others. Frog in Pond Mentality. Frog in pond refues to believe there is anything beyond his pond. Whether he believes it or not, it will not affect the truth, just his own narrow views.
I emphasize my previous statement:
I know whatever I say here makes no sense to you. Check this link to my previous post here [slashdot.org] and see here [dhamma.org] about Vipassana. Until you practise Vipassana at least once, you will not know the meaning of your own religion, let alone Buddhism
All religions preach the same. Various seers explain it differently. Various peoples interpret it differently. But it is never understood without prectice. I have only done a 10 day course in Vipassana, but even that was enough. There are two types of people (according to the Vedas), Aryans (not the filthy German interpretation) or noble people, people who are self-realized and Dasyus, people who blindly follow what others tell them or write in books, slaves of their minds' whims and, what you call 'nature'.
I used to take your view exactly about a month ago, but now, no. It has been proved, and the method is scientific. Murderers have become overnight saints. Emperor Ashoka, the person who spread Buddhism to the East, was a blood-thrsty tyrant. He came across this method, followed it and completely renounced and detested his old ways. There are many many examples, but since you do not know these common stories (common in India) there is no point citing them. Today prison jailbirds have also graduated by destroying their sins. And you actually get to percieve it being done.
When one experiences what these sins do to our body, one's nature is tuned to avoid them. Very few people have been like that, but it isn't impossible.
What you say - Only His free gift can get us absolved. OK. So what is that free gift. A kiss on your cheek. Tell me, dear man, how is that going to absolve you of your sins?
The free gift is this very way of absolving ones sins. And it requires a person to give himself totally to the Buddha (the person who will show you the path - In this case Jesus, Dharma - Universal Laws of nature from which no one can escape, and the fraternity of the learned people who will help you.
Whatever you have quoted Christ as saying is just His way of saying the Buddhist prayer:
Buddham Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself (take shelter in) to the Buddha - tathaagata - one who has walked the path to the sinless state - Nirvana.
Dhammam Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself to the laws of nature, which is applicable to all, whether the person calls himself a Hindu Muslim Christian Mormon whatever. As far as nature is concerned, you are flash and bone.
Sangham Sharanam Gattchaami
-We totally give ourself to the Sangha, the group of like-minded people who will help us (better known to you as apostles or holy order).
In other words:
Give yourself entirely in full faith to Jesus,
Give yourself entirely in full faith to God,
Give yourself entirely in full faith to the Apostles or Holy Order.
And you will get through to absolving your sins.
No One person can be called the God-man. Any person who follows the path
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me .
Note the different emphasis? Now repeat the above biblical statement, and when I comes, slap your chest with emphasis. You will get it.
I am my own master. No other man is the master. No other man is my master. No other man can lead me on the right path. It is I (not you or he or them) who is my own master. I is Unique, He isn't. If you have to seek God, do it within yourself, don't depend on others (Even Jesus Christ) to do it for you. A person like Jesus or Gautama who have walked the path to Nirvana can only show the way, they won't carry you with them again.
A person who has attained Nirvana cannot put his experiences in words, because words are limited in use. When they mean I, they mean 'I' without changing its meaning from person to person. But languages are inadequate. The other person interprets it as 'He' which is not what They meant.
Without practicing some sort of Vipassana meditation (insight), these people never get it right. They stick some philosophy to it and write, and rewrite their books. How many Testaments of the Bible are there, and how many interpretations? The Buddhists also stuck the Sankhya Philosophy (given by a sage called Kapila) and made sects out of their own interpretations (Mahayana and Theravada) and stuck daggers at each others. Every religion is the same
If Jesus or Gautama were alive today they would have slapped their foreheads in frustration, or perhaps died of shame
It is you 'Christians' who have been trying to prove Christ a liar all along
I know you will find this statement harsh, but it is the bitter truth. Why don't you take 12 days off and join your nearest Vipassana center? They are worldwide. Vipassana is a technique which emphasizes on self observation. Each has his own observaions and experiences. So be it. Don't listen to what 'Others' tell you. Acceptance of a fact or fiction by a fraternity of fools does not make it a truth, even if the fools make the majority. If you are a devout Christian, you will only become more devout, but differently. For a change you will begin to appreciate the Bible by interpreting it properly
You are right sir. *Every* religion is based around the same ideas. Every religion is started by a seer (or a long string of seers as in Hinduism) who practised Vipassana (meditation for insight) which aimed at removing all sins accumalated in the inner conscious level of the mind, the root cause of misery. A stage is reached in this technique when the sins come out in the form of terrible pain on the body. If the pain is observed without reaction (objectively) the sin is destroyed. Destruction of all sins in the inner conscious leads to a state of bliss (nirvana) and the path leading to it frees one from the natural limitations (in perception) of the mind.
Unfortunately the exact implications of this procedure are only understood on an experiential level, and even if I try to explain my experience with the technique, it will never be effective
The human mind has two parts, the upper conscious and the inner sub-conscious. The former is voluntary and limited in ability, while the latter is very powerful but involuntary. A large barrier exists between the two. The overly powerful subconscious controls our instincts - what apparrently come automatically to us. It controls every moment of our system and is in control of the senses(it itself is called the 'sixth sense'). Vipassana attempts to completely break the barrier and make the sub-conscious entirely voluntary. These barriars are mainly caused by cravings and aversions ( Vikaras - it is called) caused due to our Karma (actions). These are broken only by practise
The process of learning to write the alphabet A in kindergarten is entirely voluntary. The process of writing Anything now for you is involuntary (you think about 'Anything' and your hand 'automatically' writes it for you.) Now the process is done by subconscious. Practice has taught the subconscious a task which becomes a habit. Experience at sensory level also teaches the subconscious. Just learning Philosophy means it will stay in your conscious for ever, never influence your life, just be a topic for discussion.
Do not kill. Do not tell lies. Do not do this do not do that.
do this, do that.
Every religion tells you this. But does it sink in? No!
Experience through Vipassana, meditation and penance has taught these Great People - Seers or Buddhas - the effect a bad act causes on the barrier - the misery it causes. It becomes a habit for them to avoid all sins because of this.Bearing pain is nothing for them since they have conquered the subconscious. But sins are a no-no. Why do you think Christ said 'God please forgive them for they know not what they do?'. Pain and dying was nothing to him. The effect of the sin the men were committing on the men themselves troubled him more. And they knew not what they did.
I know whatever I say here makes no sense to you. Check this link to my previous post here and see here about Vipassana. Until you practise Vipassana at least once, you will not know the meaning of your own religion, let alone Buddhism
Before I did Vipassana, I used to revel at people who discussed religious philosophy. After, I found out all these were fools, idiots who know not what they speak. Let your experience be your own knowledge. A philosophy wholly accepted by a fraternity of fools doesn't become the truth
Philosphy may not be wrong at all, but it is meaningless until realised. Once realised (even fractionally), what Gautama Buddha or Jesus said will get clearer and clearer.
There is no difference between Buddhism and Christianity. There is only difference in perception and interpretation.
There is a subtle science involved in it. What the Buddha taught was a practical method for looking 'inside' oneself. A technique of meditation which will lead to Nirvana (enlightenment) for anyone who follows it. No one person has a monopoly for truth. There is no 'One Jesus' or 'One Mohammed' or 'One Gautama', but there were, are and will be in the future man Buddhas (enlightened ones - The Ancient Indian seers of the Vedas, Mahavira, Jesus, Gautama, Mohammed all counted - Those who followed these methods and broke the barriers of untruth - the limitations of the perceptions of the human mind). The technique was rediscovered by Gautama Buddha and later taught in universities like Taxila (North Pakistan or Kashmir today) and Nalanda. People from far out visited these (Huen Tsang and Fa Hien from China are well known visitors to Nalanda. Jesus Christ is also said to be a disciple at Taxila during his 19 'unknown' years).
The result of the meditation for a person is quick (depending on person), but the method is a bit tedious.
Today the method has been mingled with all sorts of philosophies etc. to become a religion. Unfortunately the insightful knowledge obtained by the person who has attained this state cannot be accurately put in words as it is at an experiential level, and all the Great Ones who have tried to do so have been grossly misinterpreted, combined with philosophies, and each religion is farce in its own way (including Buddhism)
Gautama never meant it to be a religion. He had rediscovered the basis of Dharma (Universal Laws) and the technique to absolve oneself of ones sins : cravings and aversions , according to ones acts in life (Karma:)(actually - not farcically, as is claimed in all religions today) and the very basis of all the myths in the Hindu religion (which is forgotten today) and nearly all other religions.
This technique was rediscovered recently and is taught worldwide. It is called Vipassana (insight). Without practicing Vipassana at least once, I'm afraid no one has really understood religion. Its website is at www.dhamma.org
Prisoners and priests alike have greatly benefitted from it. Prisoners show the greatest changes since they are really sinners.www.prison.dhamma.org
I recommend it to all because it has a large worldwide following and I myself have attended a 10 day course and felt its benefits.It will be an eye-opener to all alike. It is a practical method, not a religious thing. People from all religions only get to know their religions better (Athiests love it too)
I'm giving the direct link.t ml
http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/news/primality.h
They should add that to the newbie FAQ, or better still, put it in the right click options of the toolbars as a toggle. Why should the option disappear from one place and reappear in another? It should remain where it was accessed before? It adds to the confusion, and perhaps some more questions on the user lists (Help!, my menu has disappeared???)
er.. by dangerous, I meant in the Usability point of view.
shame to reply to my own post
I just installed Gentoo, to try out kde 3.1. Well, it is just great. The one problem was this. The FIRST option in Konqueror setting menu is Show Menubar. Click on it by accident (which is easy since it is the first option), and you are in lost world. It was ok for me, since I know how to tinker and find out that control+M turns tyhe menu back (still it was difficult), imagine the newbie hitting this setting. WTF..
The ancients were smarter than you think. Only our arrogance makes us think the other way. The ancient Indians (of Asia) have ancient documents describing the building of airplanes, an entire book on aeronautical sciences as this articles on Vimanas tends to show. As regarding metallurgy, the Ashoka Pillar is a marvellous example, existent today in the monsoon climate of India. It is analysed as nearly 99.9% iron, but doesnot have a bit of rust.