Slashdot Mirror
President Of India Advocates OSS
cOdEgUru writes "I am sure this is a first. The President of India has urged Indian IT Professionals to develop and specialise in OSS rather than Windows. To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (India's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT). Also he reminisces that his meeting with Mr.Gates were difficult due to differing views concerning OSS and Security. What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost."
Great for India. This is a great thing. If only the Indian food place near me would open source the recipe for Chicken Tika Mahkani.
I wonder how these changes in the political climate of software will affect Microsoft's Indian software development division?
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
I have this overwhelming feeling that India will still be enslaved by MS, just like most of the rest of the world. How many years will it take for Linux to become mainstream there? 5? If so, the fight is already over.
Happy New Year, it's 1984!
This is really great statement to be made, but I wonder how well taken by the students it will be. A lot of the students who attend IIT attend so that they can be marketable in a big business like Microsoft. Working on OSS while a great thing is not going to bring them the same potential monitary gains as working for a big name software company. It would be great for a country the population of India to listen and follow their leaders urging, but I seriously doubt in a country where many are trying to break free of poverty that they will work for next to nothing on OSS.
those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -isaac asimov
In his speech, he said:
I would like to narrate an event that took place in Rashtrapati Bhavan a few months back when I met Bill Gates, the CEO of Microsoft. While walking in the Mughal garden, we were discussing the future challenges in Information Technology including the issues related to software security. I made a point that we look for open source codes so that we can easily introduce the users built security algorithms. Our discussions became difficult since our views were different.
Slashdot readers may remember that APJ Abdul Kalam, the President of India, is a scientist. He has worked towards developing missiles and the nuclear research of India. He is indeed a rocket scientist.
.. was not the only thing hacked recently. :)
Even OSS specialists won't be safe from getting laid of by the Indian workers now.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Mohandas Gandhi once said:
Non-cooperation with evil is a sacred duty.
It's obvious Ghandi would of never used Microsoft.
Mike
I can't help but notice the rather unusual character of JBoss team (the premiere open source Java server). Is the disconnect due to money problems forcing Asian Indians to work for money? If so, then why the absence of Asian Indians in the Top Coders where the top guys are making enough money in prizes to live in the US or Europe?
Seastead this.
http://rutherfurd.net/cookbook/Meat_and_Fish/Chick en_Tikka.html :-)
The President made the speech at the new International Institute Of Information Technology (I2IT) not at IIT.
"If so, the fight is already over."
Why?
+++ATH0
riiiight.
Well, OSS software has a great reputation about its security ;) But, people still get fed with the OSS anti-Microsoft FUD...
What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost.
Everyone thinks they are independent thinkers. Someone else is an independent thinker if you agree with him, otherwise he's just being difficult.
I am from pune, the origin of this story :-)
The speech was not made at IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) as claimed in the story. It was made at IIIT (Indian Institute of Information Technology) a new college on IT.
It happens :/
India is a growing market, not an already established one. Microsoft is no more "entrenched" there than OSS software is. They could go either way at this point, and if the government (which has lots of nice, fat contracts to hand out to developers) is strongly in favor of OSS, that turns the tide pretty strongly in favor of the Open Source camp.
+++ATH0
There are two things wrong with that: first, you got the name wrong: he made the speech at the "International Institute of Information Technology". Second, you're probably confusing it with IIT, Indian Institute of Technology, which is the one that fits the description of India's foremost academic institution. Two unrelated universities.
Euro/dollar activity has little to do with peoples general feelings toward America and much more to do with the fact that Fed Governor Bernanke said, paraphrasing, "we have this thing called a printing press, and we aren't afraid to use it", combined with Alan G saying that we don't have enough inflation.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
He added that India should emerge not only as a software industry but as an "ICT (Information and communication technology) industry" with equal strengths in software, hardware, embedded systems design, integration and total end-to-end solutions.
I think India is to be reckoned with in the future. Take the pharmaceutical industry at the moment, India has big companies manufacturing generic medicines.
That story actually reminded of that: give them the source/ingredients and they will try to make it, but cheaper. Obviously they can't make free software any cheaper, but if they try to make it a complete solution, then why couldn't they have a chance of succeeding?
The major problem they are facing at the moment imho is probably a lack of qualified IT people, but give them time, and they will surely be there.
It makes sense, since the President of India is a top-level scientist (I believe he headed India's nuclear programme) and not a clueless buffoon.
Note for the humour impaired: this is a joke
OLPC Australia
I find the subjective statement that "he is not a politician" to be exceptionally slanted. Clearly, the submitter has alterior motives. It has a certain Clintonian ring to it that suggests that the submitter is the guy's campaign manager.
Any guesses as to what these motives are? How could you say that the leader of the largest democracy in the world is not a politician, first and foremost?
I think the slashdot editors should have stripped that subjective statement from the story. Just because a guy advocates OSS doesn't put him on some new plane of existance.
Anyway, hooray for gov't backed OSS. I'm sure if Bush came out and made the same speech, he'd be crucified on slashdot in some strange way.
30% offtopic, 40% troll, 30% flamebait, 5% funny, 5% love
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
India is really making gains in the IT world. They are also a rapidly expanding and potentially quite vast market. If a company can get enough of a foothold in India, we may see someone other than MS dominate there.
1 000 000 000 million people worldwide using an Os that isn't Windows..... Now, that would clobber Microsoft's world domination plans.
On a side note, anyone know how I can invest in India's IT stocks?
It's obvious Ghandi would of never used Microsoft.
Er... that would be "would have" or "would've".
Nevermind, I found them. Fair enough, I guess.
Money for nothing, pix for free
What many people don't realize is that newly developing countries have an advantage and that is they can learn from the experiences of other developed countries. So incase of India the president has seen that two heads are better than one and when you let people use their free will the outcome is certainly better. In short Linux is better than windows because people customize it according to their needs unlike windows, which wants its customers customized.
It is cool having a president who is a nuclear scientist :-)
The most unfortunate thing is that India still seems to believe in proprietary solutions. Further spread of IT which is influencing the daily life of individuals would have a devastating effect on the lives of society due to any small shift in the business practice involving these proprietory solutions. It is precisely for these reasons open source software need to be built which would be cost effective for the entire society. In India, open source code software will have to come and stay in a big way for the benefit of our billion people.
The leader of the world's most populous democratic (as far as that term goes, anyway) nation advocates the development (and thus the use) of open-source software. Completely excellent.
With this announcement following the Munich decision, it will be interesting to see if any further cities/states begin to take a closer look at open-source alternatives. If these increasingly influential parties have some success with this decision, then I would think that this could be quite the spur to others who are getting fed up with being strangluated by the ever-more restrictive licensing and lowest-common-denominator quality of many proprietary products.
Are we perhaps watching the pebble begin to roll?
B
"We must still have chaos within in order to be able to give birth to a dancing star." --Friedrich Nietzsche
He may not be a pure politician but theres a lot of political optimism in the numbers he's looking for regarding growth. Indian IT will not keep growing the at the rate it is now for much longer, I'n not saying it wont grow, just not at the rate they are projecting. It strikes me as very naive and shortsighted for a leader to put so many economic eggs in one basket by baking on IT to prop up the economy. Its not oil or Gold, customers can get it somewhere else.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
I'm always looking for examples to present to my boss to switch to OSS. My company is mostly in the US. Unfortunately even the recommendation of a country's president isn't enough to persuade them to even look at OSS. While I see lots of news of other countries actively switching to Microsoft's alternatives, the change is still extremely slow in the US. I think even when the rest of the world is mostly on OSS the US will be the most stubborn in letting it become the majority. But it'll take world pressure (the global market) to get a truely major shift to OSS in the US.
Now if President Bush recommended OSS in a speech in the US it would only solidify Microsoft's dominance.
Developers: We can use your help.
Not that I care to defend MIT, but how is this university equivalent to MIT? I saw the 60 minutes by Leslie "kiss ass" Stahl a few months ago. They way they measured its competitiveness is by the acceptance rate of an exam that high school students take, which any student can take in hopes of passing. I'm sure its a fantastic university, but there is no way it can have the quality of applicants seen at an MIT or Caltech, where high achieving students from all around the world make up a significant percentage of the applicant pool and where slackers like me or even excellent students don't even bother applying unless they have a stellar academic record.
If the US administered a test that anyone could take to see if they could get in to MIT, Caltech, etc, then a comparison might be fair based on acceptance rates.
i resent the flamebait tag. this is a real opinion, shared by many people worldwide and especially in western countries where lobbyists have more power than voters, by a LONG shot. and if M$ isn 't one of the biggest lobbyists in DC I will eat my hat
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
For a country like india to invest in open source. They have the IT manpower, a huge indegenous market with enough demand to absorb anything that is created even if they dont prove successful oversees where microsoft is already a dominant player. I dont know what Gates discussed with the President of India about security, it sure dint go too well.
Also, it should be noted that the president of india is not directly elected by the people unlike united states & does not carry that much of a power. I would like to hear something like this from the prime minister of India - which will not happen because industry lobbyists are effective where there is a need for money to run in elections.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
RTFA!
He made the speech at the International Institute of Information Technology (I2IT) not at an Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT).
By no stretch of the imagination are any of these India's foremost academic institutions. The submitter perhaps meant one of the Indian Institute of Technologies (IIT) here...
rmathew.com
The world is really ganging up against Microsoft simply because they're American I think (or perhaps they just act "American"
Sounds like motivation to at least be seen as behaving.
Unfavorable action = unfavorable consequence. Really, this isn't a bad thing; though can't be good for open source here, in the states, when its phrased that way.
Bored with karma, be a fan/freak
I'm sure we'll be seeing some sort of story explaining what's going on w/the changes on the front page
It looks like they've been testing a few things as of late.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Expose on Indian fascism. They may not be Muslim fanatics, but they are religious fanatics.
India should abandon nuclear weapons and ICBMs.
India should stop tolerating pograms against minorities.
India should address their grievous repression
of "lower castes".
India should allow a referendum in Kashmir,
as specified by the UN.
Maybe if they addressed these, we could take
Indian policy seriously.
Not long ago (a year or two), a US dollar cost almost 11 SEK (swedish krona). Earlier this week I saw it was down to 7,76 SEK. I think that's a bigger reason the world is turning to Euro than anything else. The US dollar's value is sinking like Titanic while the Euro is pretty stable...
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
As an American I beleive Microsoft is evil and worth ganging up on. Monopolies are the end of capitalism, this is econ 101. MS has gotten too big, assumed monopoly status and needs to be broken. I hope the rest of the world succeeds where Americans have failed. It MUST be destroyed.
You mean Carter was cool?
Laws are for people with no friends.
Rein in MS before you become the only country left beholden to it ...
Oh the irony!
Huh. And I always thought India's foremost academic institution was CalTech--Calcutta Technical Institute!
I was just reading a book written by the Indian president, Igniting Minds and came to realize how forward thinking and intellectually "fresh" (childlike.. curious, don't take stuff for granted, asking extremely basic questions...) this great man really is. This is great news, in the sense that there are people at "higher levels" who have foresight in science/technology. I hope it sets a precedent for other countries as well. In a side note, the IIIT is not a premier institution, no where near the league of the institutions equivalent of MIT here.
My photolog
Whoa. Electing a thinker. What a bizarre concept.
Those whacky Indians. Let's rain some "Freedom" down on their asses.
Few days back after Gates visit to India, the indian IT minister announced that the govt of India is not going the OSS way....its strange to hear this president's quote today.
There could have been - they're just being bought before they can really make a difference.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Hey pal, this is Slashdot. If you post pro-Microsoft crap you get zapped. You should know the rules by now. Your post should have been formatted like this:
"F*ck Microsoft! Go OSS! Go India!"
That would have given you a +5 Insightful mod. Now, let's be careful out there.....
if you read the comment you would see that not only is it anti-Microsoft but anti-corporate lobby. wipe the nerd juice off your glasses.
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
Man, it just goes from bad to worse for Microsoft today, huh?
Help us build a better map!
Where's the free market in programming? If those students are looking for a programming job wouldn't they want to learn the most marketable skill? Damn it, be a programming whore! Ignore the President of India.
--- I'm Green Hornet's sidekick not Inspector Clouseau's!
Effective immediatly, all employees are urged to boycott the purchase of Slurpies. This includes all flavors (even my favorite, Code Red).
Thank you for your support.
Your pal,
Billy G.
Perhaps. However, OSS still needs to get friendlier with names and documentation. It's still not easy for an ordinary clone to install programs on Linux. Provided that they pass that point, they need to know how to use it. OpenOffice is disappointing because it does not have a word count feature. The sheer number of writers--paid and unpaid--that putz around on the Internet would easily destroy Microsoft's grip on productivity software if it weren't for that major oversight. Journalists tend to seek objectivity (even if they don't always succeed.) That means OpenOffice's status as free would bring them closer to that ideal standard. Most writers want to achieve an intellectual detachment from their subjects. Unfortunately, a very real world problem like word count will torpedo the transition until it's corrected.
Laws are for people with no friends.
yes, I can see it now.
-less and less IT jobs in North America. What you are doing now will be done by some curry head for $3.50 an hour.
-Large Coporate support will all be handled in India. You can look forward to tech support that can barely speak proper english, rolls their R's when they do.
Support your local economy. Buy products made in North America. Refuse to have some curry head speak to you in half assed english. Insist to speak to FULLY english speaking engineers.
Fuck'em all!
they call in culturally institutionalized racism. when you link 7-11 and India this way it seems really sketchy. The quivalent of walking down the street in NYC with a Klan robe on.
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
maybe it was modded as flamebait because your argument is just conspiracy theory BS.. and your decision to attack those responded to you shows that maybe /. was being preemptive by labeling your post flamebait because they knew you'd end up being a pric&.
I don't know where you are getting this from. Someone cannot steal GPL'd code and close the source. If you use GPL code then you have to GPL your work. The BSD license is different but the GPL is more common.
Time makes more converts than reason
Its IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) that is equivalent of MIT, notIIIT which is International Institute of Infomation Technology formally know as Indian Institute of Information Technology. IIIT is a new Institution started in 1998, that still has a long way to go get any recognition and standard of IIT (The MIT equivalent). Check this article Bill Gates inaugurated IIT meetIIT
It has programmers that may not be paid as much as their US counterparts, but for this very reason are being courted heavily.
So, you're the President of India. You're trying to make your country more money. Which will you do: churn your countries workers into Microsoft developers, or work with Open Source?
Microsoft Advantages:
Open Source Advantages:
I'm sure it wasn't easy for this gentleman to have to explain these ideas to Mr. Gates. I'm not saying that Mr. Gates is a bad person in general - but having a potential 1 billion market right in front of you and told that the competitor has the inside track (especially after all the charitable donations to that country) probably didn't help his appetite very much.
The interesting thing is how this will trickle out. Why did Unix make it big in the business world? Well, students trained on it, and when they entered the Work WorldTM, they said "Hey - I can make a Unix server and solve problem XYZ." This is something that Microsoft has bet on as they help finance education - churning out the folks who "know thier stuff".
If more companies are turning to Linux for their development/help desk needs, odds are, a student with an Open Source education will propose using Open Source tools to solve the problem.
It's very, very interesting. There are cracks appearing in the walls, and I'm wondering how much longer the flood will be held back.
Ah, well - at least Apple isn't going out of business this month. (And they're getting pretty good about supporting Open Source too. Hmmmmm....)
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The President of India also advocated that Indian IT professionals continue to STFU about the hellish commutes to slave wage jobs saying "Once all of the American tech jobs migrate here, we'll give you and extra rupie." He also pointed out that the shrewd IT professional should invest their extra rupie in air conditioners, as temperatures are sure to rise if his other high profile advocacy position, Nuclear War with Pakistan, gets wide acceptance. Trully a great man.
You must FREAK OUT watching all the colours on the tv!
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
go throw yourself out a window. do us all the favor. (and take your racist shit with you, ugly Amercian) (PS im a white guy from NYC)
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
--the whole idea of developing a market skill is so you can market yourself. Dumping millions more microsoft admins and developers out there just dilutes anyone's marketability-at THIS TIME- it would appear. Seems like you have to walk a line between today and tomorrow, and I'd slap me money on open source eventually "winning" or at least increasing global market and mindshare. There simply have to be many Indians who can see this. also the comments section on the linked story tends to support that idea by a wide margin.
Everytime I look at it, it is obvious that microsoft feels the same way, else they wouldn't bother in offering incentives down to zero cost, giving away licenses, etc, because there would be no need if they didn't see it or believe it. They could even INCREASE prices if they didn't feel open source was a threat to their dominance. And also tending to lobby for legislative efforts that would further lock themselves in "legally" somehow, establish clear governmental and corporate ties mandated by law. It's a cliche but that is clearly-fascistic. That's a desperation move on their part, or seems so to me anyway.
IMO, this past year hit the turning point in open source being way good enough for about any use,for any user level. Before still a little clunky and rough around the edges, but now? Naw, plenty good enough to compete with microsoft, propieatry unixes, mac osx, etc for well over 90% of any conceivable use out there, at any level. Even a complete GUI person like moi has little problems with normal non exotic applications with Linux for example. 3 years ago I took a qucik look at it and didn't even bother trying, because I knew I couldn't use it effectively. last yerar I tried again, MUCH MUCH better, the advances were probably more obvious to someone like me than for someone who had been using linux whatever for many many years, because they saw the advances in very small incremental steps. What I "saw" was a decade worth of advancement in a year or two compared to windows or like previous mac classic. That was enough for me to predict eventual open source dominance. Open source went from a V2 rocket level to a Saturn V and moon landing in a few years, so that trend and rapidity of development will continue most likely.
And the price is sure right-on, trebly more important in areas of the planet where the average wage is dismal. The security is right-on. The customize-ability is right-on. The enthusiasm is right-on. The mindshare with younger geeks is right-on. The license choices are right-on. Hardware is getting cheaper and cheaper and now it's just a matter of time where choice of installed OS is just common, not an aberration at any retail level. Once that occurs it's a new wide open market again, and it's *this close* right now.
And as to "jobs", any nation makes more money by trading with itself as much as possible, and keeping the money recycliing as close to home, rather than exporting it. India and china in particular are in a unique position where there populations are simply so gigantic that they can take advantage of that. Sure, expat workers sending money back home helps, but CREATING the wealth and money in the first place at home is an economic force multiplier. An example opf that was when the US primarily did this with a more diversified economy, and vertical integration of the various sub niches of the economy. Since we went to exporting our developed ability to create wealth, we've gone from the worlds largest creditor nation to worlds largest debtor nation. India would be WAY smart to not duplicate that mistake,to listen to the thinkers rather than the high level market skimmers, and to seek to get more independent, not more dependent, in IT or anything else.
Until the US realises that it can't go on forever creating debt that it can never pay, the wise (long term) money will be on currencies like the Euro that don't generate more debt than income, and don't think that they can print their way out of recession.
The recent authorisation of an increase in US debt to over 7 trillion dollars will do nothing for the confidence of those who have to trade in this essentially baseless currency.
IIRC, Alan G's quote was that other countries don't have sufficiently inflationary policies, which makes the dollar look bad.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
Get that, you dumbass.
Maybe I'm out of the loop becuase I've been out of University for about 4 years now, but when I was there any type of science degree meant that you picked up find . -name "*.cpp" | xargs grep "include pr0n.h" witin your first two years or you changed your major to Poli-Sci or MIS.
The year I graduated they had just put in a huge NT lab, so maybe the computing infrastructures of Universities are changing. I would exepect that *nix stations would play a big part of any Uni infrastrucutre. Isn't that the case at ITT, in which case raising the red flag for OSS is redundant?
All your base are belong to us!
I think you were moderated "-1 Offtopic" because there is no "-1 Stupid". You can expect the same to happen to your followup post.
1) learn the difference betweeen an argument and a statement. an argument has a thesis, a statement is a descriptor. 2) its not my opinion that lobbyists control congress. it's fact. go read a book that doesn't have anything to do with computers.
----------------------
RKauffman s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p
That is a good thing buy US products!
Holy dogshit. I post a legitimate comment that generates meaningful dialogue and get modded to -1. What the hell do I have to do...TYPE IN CAPITALS, or perhaps mention something about how MICROSFOT SI EVAL!!!???
Or maybe just post some ASCII art, or perhaps make a reference to CowboyNeal. Or perhaps poste a goatse link. Or perhaps say how IN SVOIET RUSSIA, INDIA EXPORTS YUO? What the hell are the mods smoking? JESUS CHRIST!
Politics? I kinda figured it was just the euro rising and being stable enough for rich people to be willing to keep their money in it. I mean, we're going into economic stimulus season, which means a few hundred billion getting pumped into the market this time, and if you're a rich enough bastard to make it worthwhile, you might as well move your money out now and make a load or two converting back once the dollar hits bottom.
Or have you been watching Fox again?
Just a couple of (redundant) corrections:
... comparison with MIT is a different debate altogether... ]
1. IIIT is *not* the Indian equivalent of MIT. The story poster perhaps confused it with IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology). [ the best regarded technical education institutes in India
2. The name is not "Indian Institute of Information Technology", after a court order, the present name was changed to "International Institute of Information Technology".
It is an institute supported by many IT companies (including IBM and Microsoft), though that hasn't helped much to raise the academic standards much in comparison to IITs in India.
Not that it reduces the impact of the statement, but the speech was made at the Indian Institute of INFORMATION Technology (IIIT) in Pune. And not at one of Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT). While the IITs can be considered equivalent of MIT, IIIT is focused on IT. Just to be clear on this...
The second paragraph of the speech begins...
"Today IT and telecom are an integrated system this is the accelerator of service levels that could be extended to every citizen and multiplier of user segments sharing the knowledge products for development."
Waaa???
The President of India is a symbolic position. The Prime Minister has the real power.
President Kalam is clearly a brilliant man, no question. So, of course he isn't fooled by Microsoft FUD, and he's a security minded hindu nationalist, so naturally he favors open source, which is more secure, and more independent of US influence.
Before he was President, he was the chief scientific advisor to the government for many years (decades, I believe.) He's been a major proponent of high tech military Indian Nationalism; he was the candidate of the hindu nationalist party, the right wing nuts who won't prosecute people for butchering muslims. He's been a major proponent of nuclear proliferation on the subcontinent, as well; he actually designed the missiles that would deliver an Indian nuke.
I wouldn't want Oppenheimer to be President, either:
"Dreams float on an impatient wind, A wind that wants to create a new order. An order of strength and thundering of fire." -- from a poem written by Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam
How charmingly Vedic! The thunder and fire theme is reminiscent to some of history's best known rightist demagogues.
A little bio of the man, from a supporter.
So, okay, he's one of us (one of us! one of us!) On the other hand, so is Ted Kaczynski, and I'm sure he favors Linux, too. These are endorsements I could live without.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Given that the MAJORITY of Microsoft's revenues come from overseas, this type of news along with the recent one about Munich Germany switching to Linux is significant.
Microsoft hires everyone in the country who can write a "Hello, world!" program practically every year, and THIS is how they show their thanks? The NERVE!
I guess now Microsoft will avenge this slight by buying Pakistan and using it to drive India out of business.
How is my previous comment racist or US-centric in any way? I guess the easy route to take is to dismiss any criticism or objectivity as racist..
>Actually, you've got it the wrong way round. The
>president of the US is as public as the Prime
>Minister of India. The Pres of India is
>a 'background' figure as is the PM of the US.
You must be an American...
Oh, come on now, no need to be vicious. Certainly, as Americans we tend to be somewhat elitist, ethnocentric, and globally unaware, but don't confuse the thoughts of the most audible with the thoughts of the less vocal majority.. Most Americans don't think that just because someone is a foreigner that they are a terrorist, up to no good, or are a drag on the economy. Certainly, they have some fear of people of middle-Eastern descent, but you can't really begrudge them that, due to the current state of things. It isn't to say that we should be afraid, but if you get bitten by your neighbor's dog, you're bound to be a bit wary of your neighbor and dogs in general for a while, especially if you see them regularly going after each-other's throats. Not to go on a diatribe here, and I certainly thinkg Americans could stand to be a bit more globally concious, but the time will come when we don't have a choice, and that statement up there just comes across as being bitter. Your posting history doesn't indicate you as being trollish or having a particular appetite for flamebait, so I'll assume you're just having a bad day.. Hope that improves for you.
No wonder the president doesn't like MS, he couldn't use Word to write documents while working on nuclear weapons.
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, @10:06AM (#6067180)
Moderators: Mod Parent Post As A Troll please
Defending America abroad "the American Way", speaking from anonymity, calling for oppression.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Hmm, seems to me that the Indian tech firms are able to make it just fine by getting programming jobs from ... the US.
I know a lot of programmers kind of resent this, but it isn't just about them being able to program cheaper. Most of these programming shops in India are at CMM level 3 or higher. That means a lot to big compaines. Not only is it cheaper, but these places put out good, reliable software with good documentation (code, results, requirements, design, etc). That stuff matters. I am currently on a team at my company that is trying to get processes in place to get us to CMM level 2. It is hard. People don't like following processes, don't like documenting what they do, they don't like being held accountable for their work. Some of the good companies in India are at CMM level 5, which is no small feat.
So instead of people bitching about India, and how they are stealing our jobs, and how they are just clawing their way out of poverty, maybe we should ask WHY they are able to achieve these things when most companies in the US are not. It kind of reminds me of the Japanese car scare, where people would only "buy American" even though American cars completely sucked. The cheaper, more reliable Japanese cars of the late 70's/early 80's sure woke up the US car industry. Maybe it is time the US softare market woke up.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
First of all, US President is almost a dictator.
/. compare Kalam with Bush.
Indian President has no power. He is not even popularly elected.
The real power in the Indian gov't lies with the Indian Prime Minister. He is the majority speaker of the lower house (like US Senate). But, he appoints the cabinet and decides most of the party policies (A la, Tony Blair of the UK).
So, Indian constitution is a conglomeration of all great constitions: US, UK, even Russia (we have those 5-year plans), etc.
Just wanted to get that right as I saw a lot of
So, if you really want to compare, please compare US VP to Indian Prez.
The man is personally a MUSLIM.
I forgot that. Big, important, major point which I should not have left out. My bad.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
A book called Igniting Minds by someone who worked on nuclear weapons. That just kills me.
The president made the speech at IIIT, not IIT. And by the way, there are six different IITs situated at 6 different cities in India and each of them functions independently. In fact, the 6 IITs are always competing with each other in overall rankings and in different fields.
For example, IIT-Bombay (now named IIT-Mumbai) greatly increased in overall rankings after yours truly graduated from it.
The bottom line is that the industry can't continue with expecting people to pay for the operating system. In economic terms, the operating system has a "neighborhood effect" meaning that everyone needs it and it can't be paid for through a typical contract. An example of this is the road system in the US. We indirectly pay for it because everyone pays for it through gas tax. Because everyone pays for it, nobody really pays for it. The roads are kept very well here and nobody goes knocking on my door to demand payment for the next road upgrade.
Where I disagree with you is on piracy. I think the operating system should be free, programming languages should be free and that's it. The point of a free operating system is to foster a competitive environment. Companies still need assurances that they can write software without giving it away. There's no justification for innovation if they can't benefit from the level playing field of Linux.
Piracy of operating systems will end but not piracy itself.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Amerika should abandon nuclear weapons.
Amerika should stop tolerating pograms against minorities (DMCA).
Amerika should address their grievous repression
of "lower castes" ("Niggers", amerikan natives).
Amerika should listen to the UN.
Maybe if they addressed these, we could take
your comment seriously.
I have no use for dumb-ass MCSE's who barely know how to RTFM and whose first response to a problem is to reboot their god damned toy computer.
As for OSS security, don't you think there's a reason that the NSA chose Linux as their secure operating system of choice and contributed their own improvements to OSS?
And if you want to avoid a security pissing contest you really should avoid the side of "Outlook" and "IIS" and "Slammer" and "Nimda".
You fucking moron.
Take the pharmaceutical industry at the moment, India has big companies manufacturing generic medicines.
Unfortunately, this is one industry that will soon cease to exist, at least if the current US-sponsored World Trade Organisation initiatives to force India to recognise drug patents is successful.
Right now, there are literally millions of people in India, the rest of Asia and elsewhere in the developing world who benefit from cheap pharmaceuticals that have been produced in India by generic drugs manufacturers. These people, 99.99 percent of which would never be able to afford the non-generic variants of their medicines, are totally reliant on the inexpensive medicines that the generic drugs manufacturers currently supply. Cut off the source, and those millions will suffer greatly, and many of them will die.
Obviously, the WTO and the large, western drugs companies are well aware of the consequences of shutting down the Indian pharmaceutical industry. They care more about their lost profits (as if someone who lives in the developing world would ever be able to pay their inflated prices) then they do about human suffering.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the large multinational drugs companies (eg, Glaxo, Monsanto, Novartis, etc) are a plague: they continually put profits before people.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
which, as most people know, is different from HINDU. Hedoesnt belong to the BJP either...though his candidature was forwarded by the BJP. And he is no more for high tech military Indian Nationalism than Bush is for high tech military US Nationalism.
Oh wait, that should be "I will not argue about moderation. It never helps."
not head of government, meaning he has some powers, but he doesn't write laws or set policy. If the Indian Prime Minister comes out in favor of OSS then let me know!
My other sig is extremely clever...
Because you stepped on your crank with golf shoes, or you're succumbed to the leftist joys of the racism of low expectations and victimization?
Either he had a bad hair day, or maybe he just simply overlooked it. Humans do make mistakes after-all. If every statement out of every mouth was carefully crafted and thoughtful, we wouldn't be in such a mess, now would we? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think he meant was India is country with an inexperienced (relative to US) software technology industry with potentially significant impacts to worldwide software progress.
More to the matter, this not only applies to "poor" countries, it applies here. The majority, and I do mean larger than 50%, of those working in IT and software development, are influenced by the behemoth with a bigger buck. Yaya, there is a growing trend to put Linux in and blah blah blah. Evidence suggests that MS is a very large company with lots of money and power. Wonder if there's any impact to people considering a career in technology.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
India's not a poor country, it's just a really, really corrupt one.
It's a tough choice, I know, between the ideologically bankrupt and wholly corrupt Congress party and the racists in the BJP and their above-the-law backers like Thackarey and his thugs.
When you guys get that sorted even reasonably well, we'll be willing to listen to criticism from you.
Where I disagree with you is on piracy. I think the operating system should be free, programming languages should be free and that's it. The point of a free operating system is to foster a competitive environment. Companies still need assurances that they can write software without giving it away.
So you think that all software developed, excepting OS-level stuff, should be proprietary? That seems a little harsh. Would you really like to remove the right of people to give their work away? A vast collection of software is available today because people have chosen to work on something in their spare time and distribute it, mostly because it worked for them and someone else might benefit as well.
And is the point of a free operating system to foster a competitive environment? I view it as a side effect not the reason.
Even if it comes to a point where you can't make money writing software, people are always going to want someone/some company to help them use it, implement it or merely document it. There will always be opportunities for making money with software. You just might find selling it tough. I don't think that hurts the software industry one iota - people will end up paying for the most competitive system implemented in the most effective and useful fashion. Companies who build the expertise to make such installations will be the ones who will stand to make the most money in such an economy. Finally we might see a software economy where the talents and knowledge of the companies employees are the real financial capital rather than the number of patents you hold.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Excuse me, but can someone explain how the parent post is modded 5 Funny? I guess the moderators are just stupid, or totally incompetent or both. How many moderators can name the capital of India?
How many know that India has their own satellite launch systems? Their own aerospace and research firms? Their own nuclear reactors, scientists and so forth? How many know that the current president, before his assignment, was the top scientific advisor to the Cabinet?
I recall the debate in Slashdot reg Munich being the capital of Germany, and shooting aero-baloons with guns. Time to moderate the moderators, surely!
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Expose on US fascism. They may not be Muslim fanatics, but they are religious fanatics.
The US should abandon nuclear weapons and ICBMs.
The US should stop tolerating pograms (sic) against minorities.
The US should address their grievous repression of "lower castes" (ie, people from poorer backgrounds).
The US should respect the Geneva Convention and other human rights in Camp X-Ray, as specified by most of the world.
Maybe if they addressed these, we could take US policy seriously.
It works both ways doesn't it?
Seriously, before you start deciding which governments around the world are OK and which aren't, perhaps you should pay more attention to your own goverment and your own society.
If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd be appalled at how their vision of a free and egalitarian society has been corrupted.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Nothing earth shattering here. Free software is a necessity in such a poor country. The cost of Windows XP and a copy of Office XP would wipe out about one third of the average person's annual income.
From the CIA World Factbook 2002 edition...
India:
GDP per capita: $2,540
Population below poverty line: 25%
Unemployment rate: 8.8%
Internet service providers: 43
Internet users: 7 million
True that there are over a billion people in India but the vast majority are involved in agriculture, are uneducated, and most likely will never be able to afford a computer. Its not like this is a major blow to MS.
From a government standpoint, India is much better off using free software and saving money for public health and other more pressing issues.
On the Mideast
The most critical part of the Third World ... I think remains today the Middle East, for the very simple reason that it's the locus of the world's major energy supplies for as far ahead as anybody can see. Hence, it was considered to be, and is still considered to be, of particular importance that the first beneficiaries of that wealth are not the people of the region; rather the resources must be under effective U.S. control; they must be accessible to the industrial world on terms that the United States leadership can see is appropriate and, crucially, the huge profits that are generated must flow primarily to the United States, secondarily to its British junior partner, to borrow the term used by the British Foreign Office, rather ruefully, to describe its new role in the post Second World War era. This is done in various ways. In part it's recycled by local managers who have to be dependent on the global rulers, a long story which continues.
Well quite naturally these arrangements breed continual conflict. Internal U.S. documents describe them in the conventional way. The conflicts are conflicts with radical nationalism, radical Arab nationalism that threatens U.S. dominance. For the public it's put a little differently, varying over time. These days it's international terrorism, or the clash of civilization; tomorrow it will be something new, but it's basically the same ones all the time. The question is, who's going to be the first beneficiaries of the region's resources? These conflicts are likely to become more virulent and ominous in the coming years, at least if the analysis and projection of quite a number of geologists are anywhere near accurate.
There is no equivalent in India.
The President of the U.S. is Head of State, and Head of Government. The President of India is Head of State, the Indian PM is Head of Government.
My other sig is extremely clever...
I get paid to develop open source software. Check out my medical imaging library here.
One benefit of working in academia - information sharing has always been a key part of the academic tradition, what with peer reviewed papers and so on, and so open source/free software is a very good philosophical fit. At least that's my opinion - there are others that are more interested in the potential profit to be earned from research endeavours than I am.
Ok you don't want to say it. So I will.
Bill is a bad person. His army of thugs, which we will call lets say lawyers for lack of a better word, should be pushed out of the way.
Open source is the only way to do that. This is why they are running scared right now. Every action taken by Microsoft in the last year is a systematic assault on the very fabric of the open source movement. He believes open source should be kept marginalized. Ever since the day in 1975 when he stood up in a convention and called scientists and programmers pirates for sharing source. It was natural for us to believe these things should be shared but Bill never believed in that, for him it was all about the money. Right now that belief is naturally crumbling because open source is the only thing that ever made sense. Bill is trying to convince the business world that innovation comes from his closed source and licensing.
There is a reason why Windows seems to be standing still right now when open source is doing the real innovation. Windows owes its existence to open source.
DOS = Derived from CBM OS clone source, which was made available to Microsoft due to the sharing of source, they then later purchased that source.
Windows = derived from the work being done by Xerox (the pivotal stance of Microsoft in the Apple vs. Microsoft case) and universities all over the world. Which was all done with Unix systems I might add and the word Window was coined.
If all new innovation goes straight to open source it will mean in very short time Microsoft will appear to be standing still. Not to just the academic world but also to the businesses world as well. This is already starting to happen. This is way open source is believed to be the biggest threat to Microsoft to date.
Bill get out of the way.
Sorry for the history lesson most of you already know this but I just couldn't hold back the comment.
WE designed and DEPLOYED the first nukes on Japan. WE still pump the most funds into designing NEW ways to kill people. How are we any better? How are we in a position to criticize someone else?
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
have you guys ever heard of a test platform?
open source at its finest!!
A P J Abdul Kalam led the nuclear weapons program in India prior to being tapped to be titular head of state as President. (Note that the President of India is largely a ceremonial post, like the Queen of England. However, it does offer a bit more of a bully pulpit. As in England, the head of government is the Prime Minister.)
When India tested its first nuclear weapons (both fission and fusion), Abdul Kalam crowed with pride about how it was an indigenous effort. And this was largely true: They figured out, based on published materials, and with some Russian help and some reverse-engineering, how to build the facilities to generate weapons-grade uranium and plutonium and make heavy water, and constructed the facilities themselves, the latter with very little outside help. This was because they didn't want to be dependent on anyone else for such a critical national security matter.
It's about India being master of her own destiny.
So, it must really grate on Abdul Kalam that so much of software developmetn work in India is focussed on proprietary, and externally controlled, technologies. For him, the OSS model offers a perfect way out, sharing with the rest of the world, but leaving no chance that the rug can be pulled away without India's acceptance.
That said, all he has is the bully pulpit. Hopefully, he will be able to get some of the relevant people, whether in the universities or in government, to listen and take the issue seriously.
Of course we will have a better industry if it defines itself through its employees but only major league sports have been able to pull that off.
The competitive environment must be reason number one for a free operating system. On the desktop, there is no genuine competitive market. Does anyone honestly believe that Microsoft Office is worth $300 or more?
My view is more along the lines of print publishing. Nothing prevents you from using it or seeing how it's done. There's nothing proprietary about it but if I write something, you aren't allowed to rearrange the ideas or the words if I don't grant that right. There is nothing harsh about that concept. The harsh part comes from the Linux community alienating the people with the power to speed things along.
You might not like it and I might not like it but money makes things happen. You cannot tell companies that OSS is a good idea but they will have to abandon everything they understand in order to benefit from it.
Companies need assurances that they can write software without giving it away. That doesn't remove your right to give software away. That doesn't remove your rights in any capacity. The idea simply allows companies to keep their rights intact as well.
Which company needs a lesson on competition besides Microsoft? Remove their power from the equation, use capitalism instead of fascism and good things will happen for everybody.
Laws are for people with no friends.
My reaction was, "Wow! There are actually world leaders who regularly employ words over five syllables, and might be able to distinguish between my arse and their foot." Seems India didn't make the mistake the USA did and actually elected a thoughtful man with the intelligence to lead and not merely the guts to paint target on citizens' collective backs. Shame that the US of A doesn't afford us a chance to field a candidate with fortitude tempered by intellect and compassion, but leaves us with prevaricating weasels with diety complexes for whom to vote.
1. Indian president is not elected directly, but indirectly by elected representatives.
2. Current president Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam is an exception. While previous presidents were just symbolic heads as dictated by constitution, Dr Kalam has actually taken steps to bridge the communication gaps, meeting publically and raising his opinions on matters... to much discomfort of the dirty politicians.
3. Dr. Kalam meets hundreds of school children daily. His vision is to bring about awareness in current generation and imbibe a scientic vision in them. He encourages them to question the things around them.
4. Dr. Kalam has been very supportive of humanitarian work. His team developed an ultra-light carbon composite for heat shields of ICBM Agni missile. Working with a doctor, Dr Kalam made available that material for making artificial limbs of physically challanged children. An artifical leg for children which used to weigh 3.5 KG (7 pounds) now weights 300 grams (less than 1 pound). Dr Kalam lists this achievement in his 3 life time achievements above all nuclear and missile stuff !!
5. He has written two books which are one of its kind. You have to read them to believe them!
- mritunjai
I find this pretty amusing. Especially since Microsoft is moving all tech support to India (starting in July with Games and Hardware, ending in September with Office/Outlook).
:)
I can just see the Indian techs typing up your call notes on a Linux box
Being brainwashing by your nationalistic propaganda must be a blissfull state to be in.
Excuse me?
Indian English is a direct descendant of British English. AKA "The Queen's English." While most people in the US make Keanu Reeves seem articulate and well-spoken, most sound, to my ears anyway, like they work for the BBC Foreign Service.
What's better when you get tech support, a guy who gets on the line and sounds like he's gargling marbles and reads from a prepared script, or a guy who speaks better English than you do and actually has a better command of the application than the typical US Level 1 tech?
India might have a lot of problems, like racial, sectarian and caste intolerance, but lack of education, at least in the big cities, is not a problem. If anything, the US education system should look at India and see what they are doing right.
what happens when countries with M$ systems are not able to interoperate with OSS systems?
Microsoft dries up and blows away.
At some point the presumption of which of the systems has to give in to the other shifts balance, and slam. Already, "Always Blame Microsoft" is a surprisingly effective tactic.
Two words: "HA! HA!"
Your legitimate comment sucked and if this is what you consider "meaningful dialogue" then you deserve a (Score: -5 Smoking Crack) mod.
What is "earth shattering" about it is that indeed it is "earth shattering". It's not that India is one of the poorest countries in the world that matters here, but the brainpower that is inherent in their ability to first adopt then innovate with far less cost to software development. The reason Gates went there was that he recognized it as a potential money saving and money making opportunity as well as doing "charitable" PR with some millions of $.
In addition, 25% software engineers at MS are Indian. Balngalore area is a huge software and computer-engineering center now that can compare to Silicon Valley, etc. But the reason their Prez spoke about importance of OSS is that he recognized superior ethics in OSS development as compared to proprietary model. So, when India moves in OSS direction there's a model country that can be copied elsewhere. Since ideas from India have considerable intellectual impact on the younger generation in the West since around the 60ies it is in that tradition that OSS can become more widespread than it is now.
By the way "superior ethics" of OSS is like "karma yoga", or selfless service that one does for the sake of others without expecting a reward or recognition, even though such reward may come anyway, but then you don't dwell on it in your mind, etc. So, OSS is naturally an ally with Indian traditional thinking and so in that regard there's coherent purpose for both.
IP was invented for the sake of lawsuits.
Meanwhile, the President of Enema advocates ASS!
Haha, yeah, this deserves an offtopic, but there might be one person who thinks it's funny. Probably not...
The President of India supports the precursor organization to the CIA ? :-)
http://www.iamsam.com
Well then perhaps you'd much rather talk about goatse links and bittorrent sites, or maybe go back and forth on whether Apple or PC's are better. I am saying I made a legitimate comment, and it got modded to oblivion...while comments like "As an American I beleive Microsoft is evil and worth ganging up on...MUST BE DESTROYED" is obviously worth a +2 in your eyes. This place can be for meaningful discussion or we can all just sit back in our trenches and argue. Obviously you voted for arguing.
I can just see the old man from G.G.M. now ..... Linus Torvalds is Indian! Linux comes from India!
{side note: does anyone know if they're going to do a TV version of "Yes Sir, I Can Boogie"?}
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
good god, this "insightful" comment proves slashdotters are bunch of fuckin morons
0 - 0 = -0?
How much less is that?
Sure, and equating IIIT to MIT was a bit on the far side ;).
Attny. General John Ashcroft has announced plans for the Bush admin. to bomb India, citing the country as a safe haven for mass clusters of "cyber terrorists."
India doesn't recognize most forms of foreign intellectual property. Warez are perfectly legal.
Yes, activism must start at home, but there is no reason not to share insights and approaches globally. Often it is easier to sort out the issues from an alien perspective, just as we often have more clarity about our friend's problem than our own.
Remotely connecting this to the topic, I claim that the widespread adoption of the OSS development model can only be a positive example in terms of transparency and openness. Both of these are very good habits for a society trying to reduce the impact and scope of corruption.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Suddenly, I'm very jealous of India... "What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost." I honestly think that places him in a better position to make responsible decisions for his country than being a career politician (the norm in the US). Is it any surprise that a scientist of some sort would advocate different computer strategies? The biochemistry lab I work at uses linux clusters (OS X) exclusively, because they actually work. Then again, you'll pry my XP Tablet from my dead fingers... or whenever I can get Tablet functionality on another OS
This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
Why have a ceremonial President who does nothing? The whole point of a president is to have an elected (well, not all the time) non-hereditary monarch (ie. "executive") for a fixed amount of time that exerts control over the representative body and keeps them in check. If the President does nothing, then you might as well have a ceremonial monarch. This goes for Ireland and Israel as well. Then again, I wish the British Monarchy would exert some of their remaining constitutional powers...I would not be content with ribbon cutting ceremonies at shopping malls when *B* and *C* list celebrities can do that instead...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
So, according to you, only people the top 10% of people in the nation who average a 3.7-4.0 should be able to enter politics, all the rest are banned?
Fucking moron. Some of our "smartest" Presidents were in fact our very worst Presidents. Go back to the 1920s, where there was a President who was also a phD.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
You are so fucking stupid it is scary .. ,one simply cannot judge anything or anyone.
According to you
If you don't fucking see a difference between some of the regimes out there and US then you are fucking sick and need to get out more.
Seriously.
There's a reason why you and the original poster have posted as Anonymous Cowards. It's because you are cowards, because you don't have the guts to stand up and say "this is me, this is my opinion, this is what I truly believe in".
And, please, try and get it right. I'm not saying that you can't judge others. I'm saying that if you're going to judge others then you should be prepared to be judged yourself.
The difference between the Indian "regime" and the US? Well, for starters, India hasn't invaded another country under the pretence of eliminating Weapons of Mass Destruction, only to turn around after the invasion and say that finding those WMDs (if they truly exist) isn't that important after all.
It amazes me when people can't see hypocrisy when it's staring them in the face every fucking day.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The President of India is advocating opensource.
I don't even think our president knows what opensource is.
You ask Bush what he thinks about opensource and I'm sure he'll go into a story of why they're bad and how he got opensource once from kissing a farm animal.
In all seriousness, I think this is a very good thing. Last time I checked, India had a larger population than wyoming. If their tech school starts churning out linux guys, their country will eventually turn to linux, and there will be much rejoicing
that would make me happy.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
The last thing we need is training Indian
developers on Linux. It will not be great news
to off-load Linux developement to India - not
great news at all, actually, nothing is worse
than this.
What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost."
First they take away jobs from North America, then they elect a scientist for president! Why can't they be like the US and elect actors and politicians (the same thing, IMO)?
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
So true!
Problem is, here in the US of A things are a bit wacky right now with the economy in the shitter, crazy ass tax reform plans, Patriot Act and the like, a recent war against an "imminent threat" where 2 months later of occupation we've yet to find 1 single gram of WMD agents, or have yet to get Saddam OR Osama (remember him?)"dead or alive", so many end up being, how to say it nicely, "over-sensitive"
That being the case, sad as it is, still should not curb the use of fine sarcasm! With us second guessing the use of sarcasm......well then, the terrorists already WON!
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
"but Indians for the most part speak good english"
I see you're using "good" in a completely different way that most people expect.
"Most Americans don't think that just because someone is a foreigner that they are a terrorist, up to no good, or are a drag on the economy"
Most people don't think about foreign countries at all.
And when you stop to think about it, they're probably right.
Then everyone in the world should think poorly of everyone else. The kind of generalizing/profiling that you condemn is common amongst more than Americans. Articles blossomed everywhere after the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal describing widespread fear for parents of Asian college students; many (read many, not all) of them had such a distorted view of American culture that they feared that 'intern' equated to 'sex slave'.
It is most definitely unreasonable and unfair, and I hate to see my fellow Americans, and my fellow human beings, hate each other for some poorly formed generalizations. But it's also an innately human flaw, not just an American one.
India and the US are not comperable entities. It took a third party (the British) introducing a common language (English) to make the current state possible. India is a Mobocracy that's been experimenting as a socialist state for the past 30 years. +1 for high moral ground , -12 for snagging flamebait hook line and sinker.
Appearantly you didn't bother to read past the word "things". You're misconstruing my statement. I'm not condoning it, but I'm also saying it's somewhat understandable, or to make an analogy,
As has been over examined earlier, I mean nothing derogatory by using dogs as a analogy. Just the first thing that came to mind. Don't go hunting for ethnocentric bigotry or mindless hate in my posts. If you find them, you're twisting my words further than logic allows and merely projecting your world view on to me, in a weird little subconcious ploy to make things work in the your own particular version of the universe.
Which isn't to say I have an issue with living in your own version of reality. Just don't make me play there.
how this blatant flamebait gets modded so high i dunno, it proves slashdot moderation is a piece of shit.
As a fellow Indian, lemme summarize the problems with this, many of which have already been pointed out -
1. The Indian president is defined in the constitution as a "titular head". Granted he is probably the best thing that happened to India - a nuclear physicist, a real visionary, but he still is NOT the prime minister. So at best, his take on OSS is an opinion, not an official directive.
2. IT has made billions for India, sure, but which part of India? You might think IT touches say 10% of India. Guess what, IT directly affects less than 0.1% of India!!! Strange but true. India is primarily a village economy. The 0.1% who are affected live in metropolitan cities like Bangalore ( India's silicon valley ), Hyderabad, Bombay etc. They are rich beyond belief compared to the average guy on the street. But they are surrounded by the remaining 99.9% , of which >70% belong to villages, earning less than $1 a day. This is the reality in India.
3. Indian IT has yet to make a single brand-name software product for its internal Indian consumer market. The top Indian IT companies viz Infosys, Wipro, TCS etc. make all their revenue writing code for US companies who outsource. There's a rising backlash in the US today against such "code-coolies" ( 5 states have "banned" outsourcing government IT jobs to India...NJ, CT & a few others ). Take a look at the stock price of Infosys ( ticker INFY ) - it took a nosedive recently for forecasting lower growth in next quarter. Conditions are very difficult. At this time, revenue ( from proprietary MS products ) is more critical than technical expertise ( from OSS ).
4. The president's remark did not even attract a passing glance in the local Indian news...tells you how little atention is paid to it by the masses.
5. I do hope 1-4 get reversed...but a quick reality-check tells me otherwise.
nuff sed
please IIT not on par with anything like MIT..
The IIIT (three I's) is in Software Technology Park, Hinjewadi Pune.
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
Ask yourself what does EUMAP do, and what are its goals?
0 /15/st ory182615726.aspo litics/1653721.stm
Furhtermore about Eu laws
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2002/1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_p
First, I don't find this speech all that surprising. India since Gandhi and his spinning wheel has had a focus on independnce as a people and a country. Nehru - first prime minister of India - and others pushed for the formation of IIT to help India grow their own crop of engineering professionals. In this they have been extremely successful, but the unexpected consequence is that that engineering talent has been exported to other countries. And well it should, for it is top-notch (here I speak as someone who has two IIT grads in my chain-of-command and work closely with a passel of them and am hiring three to work for me in India).
On the other hand, this speech is not all that significant. Dr Kalam's influence is extremely limited. Remember that in India the president is the head of the state, with little - if any - power or authority. This speech is roughly equivalent to Queen Elizabeth coming out in favor of OSS. Would it make the news? Yes. Would it influence British business or political decisions in a significant way? Probably not. The equivalent in power and authority to the US President in India is the Prime Minister.
Dr Kalam hold the larger ceremonial position of president because of his work as the "rocket man". He is the person that gave India ballistic missiles and his naming to this position by the BJP (the leading, Hindu Nationalist party that runs the current Indian goverment) was at the point where tensions were at their highest with Pakistian last year. It is widely thought it was to send a message to Pakistian that India was serious about Kashmiar and would not back-down.
Bottom line, I don't think that IIT grads will be focusing their energies on OSS work. It is their desire to land a job with a Microsoft, Adobe, InfoSys, Tata Consulting Group, or Wipo. These companies are focuing on building and delivering non-OSS software.
"The Jesuits are doing something holy, something sacrosanct, by working in the field of education," Kalam said. "Education gives one the ultimate human value." The Indian leader--himself a graduate of a Jesuit school in the southern Tamil Nadu state--praised the Jesuits for their "excellent contributions not only in India but the world over."
President Kalam said: "If India is to be a developed country, the role of the Jesuits will be crucial to creating an appropriate system of value-based education."
Those two countries have even fought 2 wars over it because Pakistan wanted Kashmir. India is fighting to keep Pakistan from making Kashmir a part of Pakistan.
Seriously, your one dumb and ignorant moron.Bush is on fire and its not good for my lungs.
Letting cows and steers pooping in the streets
Ensuring rats run wild in the streets and homes
Making chicks wear that funky dot between their eyes
Urban Legends
Munich and India advocate open source! Soon MS will be gone and the world be as one, singing in perfect harmony! Yawn. India's adopting open source in order to stop buying US made software (which is mostly MS platform). First they steal IT jobs, to break the incomes of US IT workers, then they develop their own version of Linux which will cut the incomes of US software businesses- which includes MS, but don't forget a lot of companies develop for the MS platform will lose money in the bargain too, which means developers for those companies lose their jobs too. Of course, the linux zealots consider MS developers as infidels anyway. I know I'll probably be flamed to death for it, but having the USA stick with a USA-centric platform like MS may be the best shot US IT workers have at retaining their jobs. If India totally abandons MS, then maybe some jobs (including call centers for MS specific products) may move back to the USA.
What are you going to do now? Claim that *I* don't have the 'moral authority' to criticize the government either?
Max
No, Max, I'm simply going to allow you to point out that you lack the *intellectual* authority to criticize the US gubmint. Your risible and provably false "ratiocination" as to the motive behind the liberation of Iraq does just that. I pity you.
...just remember, nobody ever picks on number 2.
My president can beat your president up!
The president gave his speech at I Square IT, Pune and not IIIT Hyderabad. I Square IT is a private institute run by the Finolex foundation and its certainly not a premier institution by any standards . It just started around two years back. I know because I gave and cleared its entrance exam for this year.
I guess this is a troll, but it irritates me so much that I have to respond.
'Northamerican' would be inaccurate by your flawed logic, too. Canada is part of North America, and clearly you're talking about citizens of the USA.
The United States of America is the only country of the world to include 'America' in its title, so calling someone from the US an 'American' uses an accurate and unique derivative of the country's name. Perhaps you should review some geography lessons on the differences between countries and continents.
i'm sure indian president talk better english than George W. Bush
Lastly, you should really check your own grammar before you criticize someone else's.
Never attribute to idealism what can be addiquately explained by greed.
People are ganging up on Microsoft, American people as well as other nationalities, because Microsoft is wielding a great deal of power to control markets and extract money (i.e. They are a bunch of greedy bastards). It wouldn't matter if they were europian or not. If there was a europian comapany that acted the same way, they would be villified as well.
As far as they're being "American", It's more like "America" is viewed as Microsoftish, in that there is a high concentration of "greedy bastard" companies in America that are trying to wield similar power and control around the world (RIAA, MPAA, Pharmicuticals, ...). Many people in many countries resent these companies, and by association the country from which they come.
When you hear someone complain about "America" doing something, take a deep breath, listen to exactly what they are talking about, and recognise that there is usually a specific entity within America, a company or group or agency, that is doing the dirty work. It is just the person complaining that is making the grander association. Don't get dragged into it too far.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
That's what I meant by my comments...that "American", as in living in the United States, is beginning to become indistinguishable from the corporate culture of greed. People from around the world are beginning to assume that just since Microsoft and Enron and the RIAA are attempting to put their collective boots on the world's neck, that all American people are too.
Stopped reading here. You obviously do not understand India.
Try: You're trying to the make the world a better place.
He's no materialist.
Open Source Advantages:
;-)
* Free (as in Beer) -
Many Indian states (e.g. Gujrat) ary "dry states": no beer
The irony here being that (according to the article) "The announcement, made on Wednesday [August 28, 2002], stated that from now on, all software developed for the government must be licenced under the GPL." referring to the GNU General Public License, a license written over a decade before the Open Source movement began and written to ensure certain the freedom to share and modify software. Speaking in terms of freedom is eschewed by the Open Source Initiative.
I'm glad that the GNU GPL is getting more use and I welcome the efforts of any organization who wishes to encourage increased GPL use, but I also think it's reasonable to give credit where credit is due. Merely including a seminal license on a list of acceptable licenses does not compare with writing that license or sticking with the ideas expressed in that license.
Digital Citizen
Check this out. presidentofindia.nic.in
"I am a graduate student" ...and therefore are not worth listening too.
Come back after playtime, junior.
"Considering that Indian students are respected the world over"
This is so funny that milk just shot out of my nose.
How the hell did this get modded interesting?
"...just remember, nobody ever picks on number 2."
And just what number do you think Iraq is? I suspect that Max has plenty of intellectual authority.
I'm probably missing the sarcasm of this post....
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Before they were born, they chose the lives they'd assume. Bush chose to become the man that would one day become the President of the World's Most Powerful Nation, and Kalam chose to become the man who would one day become the figurehead of the world's largest third world nation. Gee, that's a no-brainer...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Jimmy Carter was a nuclear scientist. A great president, he was not...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
India claims Pakistan sponsors terrorism in Kashmir and they are escalating nuclear tension with Pakistan over it, or vice versa, depending upon your viewpoint if you actually care. Somehow I doubt if India defeated Pakistan and took over the country they'd institute democracy for all those muslims when they can't even treat 300 million of their own existing citizens (untouchables) with decency. Talk about uninformed hypocrisy... But us Americans are out to steal the Iraqi oil...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
u gotta be a homo nigger...
yeah. IIIT is better than MIT
MS Office is worth whatever people are prepared to pay for it. I certainly don't believe it is worth it - with OpenOffice.org on one side for people who need to knock fairly complex documents together and lyx/LaTeX/DocBook for serious publication work, I have no need for MS Office.
My view is more along the lines of print publishing. Nothing prevents you from using it or seeing how it's done. There's nothing proprietary about it but if I write something, you aren't allowed to rearrange the ideas or the words if I don't grant that right. There is nothing harsh about that concept. The harsh part comes from the Linux community alienating the people with the power to speed things along.
Funnily enough, that is almost exactly the license that the BSD provides. The GPL only goes the extra mile and says that if I offer this to you under these conditions, then you should do likewise if you offer it others.
I don't see the Linux community alienating the people with the power to speed things along either. Most of the inhibitors to people getting on board with Free software has more to do with rumours and FUD than legal hurdles.
You might not like it and I might not like it but money makes things happen. You cannot tell companies that OSS is a good idea but they will have to abandon everything they understand in order to benefit from it.
I don't believe that companies have to abandon everything they understand to benefit from OSS. How many companies rely on perl for some critcal part of their environments, for example? That doesn't make their perl scripts OSS. Nor does it magically infect all the other parts of the infrastructure that perl glues together and make them OSS either.
Companies need assurances that they can write software without giving it away.
They have it today and it's not going away. What has changed is that there may be a free alternative out there that they will have to be (considerably) better than in order to get sales. I work on DB2 Universal Database - I look around and see MySQL, SAP DB and other Free database projects. Many of these provide plenty for a basic database and many people will not need to look outside those Free packages to get the features they need. The challenge for companies writing software to sell (as opposed to writing software under contract for other companies) is to ensure that they provide sufficient extra value to justify the cost.
Trust me - it can be a great incentive.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
A lot of negatives perceptions about Indian economy and IT industry are based on outdated facts. A few things to think about: On the macro economic side, in 2001 Indian economy was ranked 4th largest in the world by PPP per World Bank (US - $9.8 trillions, China - $5.1, Japan $3.19 and India $2.9). India's PPP is about double that of UK, France or Italy. http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP_PPP. pdf
You can also get country info from the US Govt sources -
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /in.html#Econ
India does compare poorly on per-capita basis and still has a long way to achieve the living standards of the west (possibly another half a century or more). The disposable income of the consumer class is vast and one of the fastest growing in the world.
Last year India enjoyed the second fastest export growth in the whole world at about 15% (China grew the fastest at about 20%). After China and Korea, India has been the third fastest growing economy of all nations in the world in recent years. The GDP has been averaging about 5% growth rate (4 in bad and 7 in good).
Bill Gates/Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Cisco, GE, Sun have all publicly stated that they consider Indian IT industry to be one of the most strategic ones in the whole world (not necessarily "large" but "strategic").
The OSS movement is fairly strong in India. It is not as strong as in the US or Europe but there are several active conferences, contributors, dedicated labs, etc. in India. The President of India is simply reflecting an already strong stream of thought. Many of the reseasrch labs seem to support OSS.
It is also not true that it is not paying to develop OSS in India. One can market related services or work with IBM or numerous players looking actively for OSS development skills in India.
So Indian fascism is okay, then, right?
There *are* a lot of starving, hungry people in India, who have no chance whatsoever.
That you chose to ignore the details in the message - which is that the President of India is advocating the Linux/OSS mantra of DIY technology, and this might mean something to one of the 300,000 street kids in Delhi who would just *LOVE* to be able to get a job without having to first wade through hordes of pompous asses like you to get there.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Actually the institutes mentioned IIIT are not to be confused with IITs which are the premier engineering schools in india
but i wish he gets a crewcut soon
Perhaps it is due to the intellectual and moral superiority of India's leadership as noted in so many posts today that the following events have occured: 1) The massive influx of American workers, both professional and unskilled, to India. 2) The rampant outsourcing of Indian technical jobs to offshore companies, many of them located in the United States, and the resultant strain that it has placed on the traditionally strong Indian IT labor market. 3) The incredibly generous work visas that have been issued by the Indian government to support and encourage the points mentioned above. In fact, a google search on "India" and "Visas" will produce dozens of websites specifically geared towards Americans seeking temporary work visas in India. 4) India's current position as the only superpower in the world, reviled and yet relied upon by all nations to take an active part in resolving all of the Earth's problems and conflicts be they of a socioeconomic or geopolitical nature. Need I continue? The signs are everywhere, from the points that I have listed above to the Indian cultural influence that has taken the world by storm! In every nation one will find Sari wearing teenyboppers blasting the latest hits from Ravi Shankar while sucking down tons of Lamb Vindaloo ... and don't forget the blockbusters coming out of Baliwood these days.
I hope I'm not trolling, on this, my very first post to /.. I love the tech talk, but the flagrant anti-Americanism i have seen today gets me right here.
There is one last point I would like to make to all those who feel that Dubya is a "Simian" (Direct quote from a post that received an unwarrented rating of 5) -- he passed a tax cut that has already shown signs of bolstering the economy and set it to "Expire" in five years unless the decision is made to renew it. Hmmm ... does that mean that a full year before he is up for re-election he has already set the agenda for the next race? The main issue will have to be whether or not the cut will be renewed, thereby either raising taxes or keeping them at what will by then be the level people are accustomed to. We already know what his platform will be ... lets see how many Democrats will be forced into saying "I'm going to raise your taxes ... vote for me!" Is that the act of a simian or of a shrewd and clever politician?
"When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come?" - Saint Joe
He's the president, for God's sake! If that doesn't make him a politician, what does? The fact that the guy must have devoted a reasonable chunk of his adult life to getting into office means that he must be a politician par excellence!
Hear, hear. I've been saying essentially the same thing for a while now.
...
How could a proportion of them not hate us, after the "original" Crusades? And then we have the audacity to name a motorized Howitzer the "Crusader"
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." -- Robert Heinlein
Some history required here:
0. Kalam used to run the Indian Defense Organization.
1. The old US 40bits good for export only policy.
2. The incident involving Crypto AG and Pakistan where the key bits were leaked into the data stream.
There was a recommendation made years ago within the Indian defense and security establishments to avoid using any US closed source systems. Not sure what exactly they use, but it ain't M$ Windows for sure. Probably some variant of BSD or the almighty Linux.
Unlikely as it sounds, this president actually understands this stuff. (I know, as I've been in a presentation where he was asking a lot of questions.)
you just say 'far'!?!?!?! :o :o
accchhh -nnnicchhh kknnnnooooonnn eeeerrrtt uuu aaac cccchhh seyin
There are no Americans in Baghdad.
It doesn't suprise me that somebody who is aware of the potential of the Simputer (Linux handheld for poor people) would encourage development for it.
GNU-India is working on Free Unicode fonts for all writing systems of India, something you don't see Microsoft, Apple, or the commercial Unix vendors doing. Simputers are in field trials in agriculture, banking, the Post Office, health, and education in India. There are more than 50 for-profit companies developing for the Simputer, too.
"A knot!" said Alice, ever ready to be useful. "Oh, do let me help to undo it!"
IIIT is no where equivalent to MIT. Infact it is called I-square-It. It's just another institute offering commercial training for computers.
The submitter has confused IITs, the pride of India, with this institute.
I think that people seem to confuse great politicians with hero's or great men. Bush didn't have to prove himself to be a man before he came to power. Your not a great man when you order others to fight your wars and happen to rile up a crowd of people to violence.
I'm sorry but in this regard Bush and Osama Bin Laden are similar and very dangerous to the rest of society.
Hmmm... Pie...
There has been a lot of confusion lately, so let me try and clear some up
:-)
President Kalam spoke at theInternational Institute of Information Technology, Pune, known as isquareit
This has nothing to do with International Institute of Information Technology, Hyderabad , or with Indian Institute of Information Technology, Bangalore. Dunno they same to love the IIT acronym, wonder why?
more about me
are many) may be very good instituitions for all
I know but by no stretch of imagination are they
"foremost academic institutions equivalent to MIT". That honor goes to the IITs (Indian Institute of
Technology), IISc (Indian Institute of Science) in Bangalore and IIMs (Indian Institute of Management).
If anything IIIT (note three Is) will rank behind Regional Engineering Colleges, Anna University, BITS and other premier Engineering Colleges in the country.
Our President (I am in India) promoting Open Source is a wonderful thing (he's an eminent
scientist) but portraying IIIT as something which it is not was totally unnecessary.
What is India's GDP?
How many people live in abject poverty?
How many die of preventable diseases?
Access to clean water?
What is your definition of sizeable?
Etc.
I don't want to rain in your parade, I just need to point out that the first step to achieve improvement in any field is to recognize the problems and obstacles one faces.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... may not be a measure of intelligence (although lack of it normally points out to cognitive problems of some kind or another).
The problem is that politicians must be able to communicate effectively with others.
The horrible thing about Mr Bush evident lack of verbal dexterity is that the US public is more than happy to support somebody that can't offer more than small soundbites and who cant put forward an idea coherently.
Do you want this kind of person leading your country? Ovbiously most US people do, specially now after he fullfilled the cowboy fantasy in a global scale, but that says loads more about the state of US politics than about sorry Mr Bush hiself.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The headliner of the article talks about Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) as India's answer to MIT!!
Well that place is reserved in stone by Indian Institite of Technology (IIT)
Please get your I's straight
Neither does OpenBSD's website run their software. I wouldn't be particularly happy if the President installs Linux boxen at work, and admin's them all day ...
--
I am too lame to make a
Nah. Same thing happened in Peru not too long ago.
Time makes more converts than reason