Actually NeWS was a pretty interesting idea. I believe this was Gosling's biggest project prior to Java. Basically, if I am correct, it allowed for distributed GUI application development by allowing users to create PS routines to handle some of the display logic locally, while also driven by a remote application. This is sort of similiar to a CGI/JavaScript app of today. Also a concept behind Corel's jBridge.
With X you have a dumb server. Basically all rendering routines are driven by the X client process.
I believe X suffers from the following problems.
1) It is fat everywhere. The wire is fat, the server is fat, and the clients are fat.
2) It is to damn configurable. Xresource files must die.
3) There is no standard desktop environment. To much framentation. There aren't many groups trying to write a desktop environment for Windows or the Mac. But how many do we have on X these days? CDE was going to be the end all, until Open Source came into the picture. Now it is KDE, gnome, openStep... Lots of reproduced work, and a desktop environment that isn't as cohesive as Windows or the Mac.
4) font support basically sucks. Since it is possible to render fonts remotely (which hardly anyone does), fonts are described as monochrome bitmaps, which bascially means no anti-aliasing or sub-pixel positioning.
I used to think that distributed windowing systems were cool, but I think they are dead now. The web browser is the distributed windowing system of the future. I think XLib type indirection is just a bad idea. Way too much overhead.
BTW, I believe the PostScript spec is also open. Well documented in the Red Book, etc. There are many clones these days.
I'm getting really frustrated with the net. I spent more time online this weekend then I have in a long while. The net as a forum is just out of control. People posting nonsense for their own gain. Flame wars that go on for pages with no content added.
I realized the post that pointed back to/., pointed to something I said. And the poster totally butchered the meaning of what was written. This is pretty upsetting and frustrating. I feel like I can't post anything anymore without the fear of being flamed, or quoted out context. I can't find useful information in discussions on anything without wading through pages and pages of flame wars. But I digress. I guess I'll be given a -1 for being off topic here.
I hate to sound like on of those, "walk through 10 feet of snow to get to school" stories, but I miss the days when being on the net meant you had an account at a university or research lab, and reading news meant figuring out rn, or if you were lucky, trn.
come up this stuff. Some one commented the following.
>Actually, somebody on Slashdot has already been >toying with the idea of sabotage: >http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/07/30/1451 248&threshold=-1&commentsort=0& mode=thread&pid=127#213
>Interestingly, the victim here would be Red Hat, >not E*Trade. But Red Hat might turn around and >sue E*Trade over the poor handling of their IPO, >which triggered this whole mess.
This is utter nonsense. I think people are trying to stir up a bunch of negative crap about EGRP in order to short the stock. I hope this person does and ends up loosing their shirt.
Re:I have never seem a large GUI scheme app...
on
GCC 2.95 Released
·
· Score: 1
>Also it allows you to dynamically (ie at runtime) interject a class in your hierarchy
How is this of value? Deep inheritence heriarchies are evil enough. I can't imagine wanting deepen them at run time. Sounds like a maintence nightmare to me.
I used to be anti-STL until I was forced into using it. Now I believe it is totally optimal for what we are doing (manipulating many large data sets generated from a numerical engine).
One reason I was against it initially is that it requires a very standards compliant C++ to work properly. Honestly I've been using the M$ compilier which is pretty compliant, but is missing partial specialization which would make iterator_traits work correctly.
Also I have found that use of STL's generic programming paradigm, if bought into permeates your code beyond the use of collections. For instance I find myself doing this all the time
class foo{ template void bar(It begin, It end); };
Unfortunately MS forces you to define bar inline in this situation, but it works...
Generally STL == good
Negatives: compilies very slow Bloats object code.
Anyway I'm intested in getting my hands on the latest GCC to start attempting to compile some of the STL code I have been working on.
This is a good point. The initial post is pretty much invalid. Those who got into MPPP at the offering price still made money. They made a lot of money if they sold short term.
Realistically getting into RHAT at the offering price is fairly low risk. How many recent high-tech IPOs are now trading below their offering price? Paying the opening price would be high risk.
I think RedHat is doing the right (PC?) thing by opening their IPO to RH hackers. I maybe a bit cynical, but I think they are doing this to avoid a backlash from the developer community. I believe they, rightfully, fear becoming uncool as a public company.
This reminds me of the netpod project. They had any article in Linux Journal a few years back discussing their pay/use internet terminals. I checked out their system Summerville, MA and it was pretty decent. Unix/X/Linux is well suited to this application, because they are so customizable. X with the appropriate window manager can be dumbed down so the user doesn't get into trouble. Plus a custom look and feel can more easily be accomplished, than with other systems.
I believe given a stable browser Linux would make an excellent web term.
Slashdot Mirror
Umm, no. Think about it. What about Dallas
and Austin? Dell, AMD, metrowerks.
And New York? What big tech companies besides
IBM are in NY? Boston, yes.
Actually NeWS was a pretty interesting idea. I
believe this was Gosling's biggest project prior
to Java. Basically, if I am correct, it allowed
for distributed GUI application development by
allowing users to create PS routines to handle
some of the display logic locally, while also
driven by a remote application. This is sort of
similiar to a CGI/JavaScript app of today. Also
a concept behind Corel's jBridge.
With X you have a dumb server. Basically all
rendering routines are driven by the X client
process.
I believe X suffers from the following problems.
1) It is fat everywhere.
The wire is fat, the server is fat, and
the clients are fat.
2) It is to damn configurable. Xresource files
must die.
3) There is no standard desktop environment. To
much framentation. There aren't many groups
trying to write a desktop environment for Windows
or the Mac. But how many do we have on X these
days? CDE was going to be the end all, until
Open Source came into the picture. Now it is KDE,
gnome, openStep... Lots of reproduced work, and
a desktop environment that isn't as cohesive as
Windows or the Mac.
4) font support basically sucks. Since it is possible to render fonts remotely (which hardly
anyone does), fonts are described as monochrome
bitmaps, which bascially means no anti-aliasing
or sub-pixel positioning.
I used to think that distributed windowing systems
were cool, but I think they are dead now. The
web browser is the distributed windowing system
of the future. I think XLib type indirection is
just a bad idea. Way too much overhead.
BTW, I believe the PostScript spec is also open.
Well documented in the Red Book, etc. There are
many clones these days.
./~christopher
I'm getting really frustrated with the net. I
/.,
spent more time online this weekend then I have
in a long while. The net as a forum is just
out of control. People posting nonsense for their
own gain. Flame wars that go on for pages with
no content added.
I realized the post that pointed back to
pointed to something I said. And the poster
totally butchered the meaning of what was
written. This is pretty upsetting and
frustrating. I feel like I can't post anything
anymore without the fear of being flamed, or
quoted out context. I can't find useful
information in discussions on anything without
wading through pages and pages of flame wars.
But I digress. I guess I'll be given a -1 for
being off topic here.
I hate to sound like on of those, "walk through
10 feet of snow to get to school" stories, but
I miss the days when being on the net meant you
had an account at a university or research lab, and
reading news meant figuring out rn, or if you
were lucky, trn.
I'm logging off. It's a beautiful day in
Tahoe.
./~christopher
come up this stuff. Some one commented the
1 248&threshold=-1&commentsort=0& mode=thread&pid=127#213
following.
>Actually, somebody on Slashdot has already been >toying with the idea of sabotage: >http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/07/30/145
>Interestingly, the victim here would be Red Hat, >not E*Trade. But Red Hat might turn around and >sue E*Trade over the poor handling of their IPO, >which triggered this whole mess.
This is utter nonsense. I think people are trying
to stir up a bunch of negative crap about EGRP
in order to short the stock. I hope this person
does and ends up loosing their shirt.
>Also it allows you to dynamically (ie at runtime) interject a class in your hierarchy
How is this of value? Deep inheritence
heriarchies are evil enough. I can't imagine
wanting deepen them at run time. Sounds like
a maintence nightmare to me.
I used to be anti-STL until I was forced into
using it. Now I believe it is totally optimal for
what we are doing (manipulating many large data
sets generated from a numerical engine).
One reason I was against it initially is that it
requires a very standards compliant C++ to work
properly. Honestly I've been using the M$
compilier which is pretty compliant, but is
missing partial specialization which would make
iterator_traits work correctly.
Also I have found that use of STL's generic
programming paradigm, if bought into permeates
your code beyond the use of collections. For
instance I find myself doing this all the time
class foo{
template
void bar(It begin, It end);
};
Unfortunately MS forces you to define bar inline
in this situation, but it works...
Generally STL == good
Negatives:
compilies very slow
Bloats object code.
Anyway I'm intested in getting my hands on the
latest GCC to start attempting to compile some
of the STL code I have been working on.
This is a good point. The initial post is pretty
much invalid. Those who got into MPPP at the
offering price still made money. They made a lot
of money if they sold short term.
Realistically getting into RHAT at the offering
price is fairly low risk. How many recent
high-tech IPOs are now trading below their
offering price? Paying the opening price would
be high risk.
I think RedHat is doing the right (PC?) thing by
opening their IPO to RH hackers. I maybe a
bit cynical, but I think they are doing this to avoid
a backlash from the developer community. I
believe they, rightfully, fear becoming uncool
as a public company.
./~christopher
This reminds me of the netpod project. They had
any article in Linux Journal a few years back
discussing their pay/use internet terminals. I
checked out their system Summerville, MA and it
was pretty decent. Unix/X/Linux is well suited
to this application, because they are so customizable. X with the appropriate window manager can be dumbed down so the user doesn't get into trouble. Plus a custom look and feel can
more easily be accomplished, than with other systems.
I believe given a stable browser Linux would make
an excellent web term.