Good question. He was the brains in the outfit, if you ask me. Still lives in Champaign too. He bought a house that was deemed a historic landmark (not because of Mosaic...the house was famous for something else).
Please enumerate these companies. I'd love to consider them as possible customers. Currently grid computing is mostly met with, well deserved, skeptisism
I mean companies like IBM who are looking for the same customers you are.
Globus is fucking trivial to install
Unless Globus has gotten a helluva lot easier to install in a recent release, "fucking trivial" is a load of bullshit. I've done, and other people I know have done, several installs each, with people that knew what they were doing, and I'm telling you, even with that help, it took at least two days of farking around to get it to install properly.
So I call major bullshit on "fucking trivial"
Right, because agent systems and grid are *so* similar.
Come on now, KQML was a language for doing REST (to a first approximation) a grid is a far more complex concept
No shit. The panacea of KQML was that "everything will talk to everything else", just like the grid, and Corba. You know what? Everyone dropped KQML because they realized they DIDN'T need to talk to everyone else. They just needed to talk to themselves. You end up with so much extra baggage because of this it ends up being a complete pain in the ass.
Again, a complete and utter lack of understanding what the grid is about. Your comment amounts to having a cabal of grid programmers bless a particular language and then demand that everyone write to it. Dumb. Not that there aren't language bigots in the grid community that would do that if they could, but dumb nonetheless
This completely misses the point. The point isn't to have everyone write in the same language, it's to have a simple system for people to use. The extra hurdles that people have to get their programming language usable on the grid aren't trivial, and not every language is supported. It adds complexity to the system that shouldn't be required.
The grid solves problems that exist and aren't being solved in other ways except through enormous investment by each and every company that wants to solve them for themselves.
Well, now's the time for me to call bullshit. No one is doing this now...they might in the future, but I seriously doubt it. Companies aren't going to be forking over their computations to other companies to do, when they can do what they've been doing in house. More hardware might be sold, but it won't be shared.
In the end, if the grid does actually get used anywhere, it'll be in-house, or in academia. And even there, people are arguing which place is the right place to host most of the activities...which, is completely STUPID, IMHO, because it completely misses the point! I've been in those meetings where they're deciding "where we'll concentrate our X computations" and "site Z will be where we concentrate our Y capabilities". Holy living crap! I've never seen anything so farked up in my life. There are a lot of really pissed off people here because of that.
Another analogy. Your comment is akin to demanding that instead of adopting Windows (which is a hassle to install, run and keep secure) that they instead write their own operating system tuned to their own needs. Sillyness
This completely makes my point. We don't need another one of these things. There are plenty of lighter weight alternatives out there which people have developed and have been using for the last few years. One great example is Cisco's Spanish Inquistion built on top of Jini. (spare me the language bigotry...not you...the other readers of this).
I wish luddites would do a bit of reading and educate themselves before assuming that everything they didn't come up with is nonesense.
And double at ya....most of the last eight years (and my involvement has been for the last six) has been pedaling this crap. The dot.com crash is what made people latch onto this. Before that, you couldn't give it away...which is ironic, because they were.
The grid has been trying to gear up from academia/research for so long, I can't even remember when I first heard of it.
In the aftermath of the dot com crash, companies are falling over themselves trying to snag onto the "next big thing".
Now we have two different worlds colliding, with people pushing 'em that have been ignoring each other all this time.
They've at least recognized this, however, there's still a HUGE problem.
They can't make it easy for the average person to install and use.
They (the Grid folks in particular) seem to be missing this, big time. Globus is NOT easy to install...it's not an out of box experience like any of the P2P things are. It's a multi-day install, and you have to know what the heck you're doing.
Secondly, the world doesn't need yet another Corba-like thing to make everything interoperate with everything else with MORE glue on top of it. KQML should have taught people this lesson back when that was all the rage in agent systems. If you want two systems to talk to each other, couple 'em in whatever language you want and stick to it.
There's so much extra overhead in doing tasks that "the grid" is supposed to take care of....man, I wish these people would just sit back and take notice of the other distributed systems out there that are out there and working and solving problems without foisting yet another distributed computing paradigm (oh hell, I can't believe I used that word...forgive me), on the world.
Lord knows we don't need it entangling reasonably well put together P2P systems with the tentacles of the heavy-weight "Grid".
I hate that too, but I'd rather pay the $2-5 most of those games cost for the 1 month (or less) that I'd play it rather than $50 for a lifetime. Still, it'd be nice to have either option.
The "no camera" rules most people refer to when they're talking about cell phones is "no cameras" in locker rooms, dressing rooms, etc. It's about privacy, not intellectual property.
If they implemented the required variety of locks and semaphored all the data structures in the kernel, this wouldn't be an issue. I don't see them doing this in the 2.X.x releases tho. That'd be a 3.x or 4.x thing at the rate their going, both in code and mindset.
I have one: A fully (and I mean data structure by data structure) semaphored kernel.
Hard? Yes. Do-able? Yes. Will Linus "bless" this? Who knows.
This buys you (amongst other things) being able to have one process in kernel context at the same time. Sure, you can do it with semaphores around huge chunks of code, but having finer granulatity of semaphores allows you to have multiple threads in that code at the same time.
This will give a HUGE speed up to the kernel, and as a result, make Linux one helluva lot faster.
People have been harping about this for years tho, and Linus hasn't biten so far. Sooner or later he will, as soon as they get to figuring out what to do about making multi-processor stuff faster, but until then we just have to wait.
Amen to this. I'm sick of hearing how people can do anything in "insert-language-here". Well, sure, but just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. I think a lot of this has to do with the maturity of the programmer, and they're willingness to learn new things.
...like they say, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
If "Executive-level" management is making decisions on what programming language people should be using, they're sticking their nose were it doesn't belong. Lower level management (if even that) should be making that decision. Deciding what to use based on biases is always a mistake. I like Java a lot, but using it when something else would be better is a serious mistake....and visa versa.
Well, as much as you'd like to think that it's yours, your interaction on a site is THEIR data. Info like credit cards, are of course, yours, but not the way you go through the site.
I find it a bit surprising that law enforcement can just fax things off, but again, as long as it's their data, they can do whatever they want with it.
Great.... Firefly.com has a patent for this sort of thing, and now Microsoft has it (Microsoft bought them). Is this another case of something getting off the ground and then squashed because of lawyers?
You can't stand on the principle that some licensing restrictions on things that people want is ok to steal, but the stuff with other licensing restrictions isn't ok to steal.
Either give it all away for free, or stand by all the licenses, whether you like them or not. You can't have it both ways and stand on any moral high-ground when you don't agree with something that happens like this.
Like I said in a previous post. I hope this company goes down for it. It's just plain wrong.
The real question is, will THESE folks violate the GPL in products?
Previous story here is on a company that did that. If Japan's encouraging the use of open source (and presumably GPL), what do they ship if they, for example, do an embedded linux port for a microwave? Do they ship a CD with the code with the microwave?
Geeze, if they did that, half the country would use the thing as the coaster, 49 percent would try and mu-wave the thing, and 1 percent (well, less...go with the idea here) would be left figuring how to do cool hacks on it.
Seriously tho....I'm against any sort of violation of an agreement like this. These guys should burn. Kudos for figuring out that they did this in the first place. Anyone know how they figured this out?
Scary thing is, I'm SURE this isn't the first place that's done this sort of thing.
Slashdot Mirror
And before you get all "OOOooo, that's not what happened", you don't know, because you weren't there.
Here's something that's worth a read:
http://www.chrispy.net/marca/gqarticle.html
Just yesterday Eminem was wondering where he could get some spare CPU cycles to do his computations with. Good thing they thought of this!
I mean companies like IBM who are looking for the same customers you are.
Globus is fucking trivial to install
Unless Globus has gotten a helluva lot easier to install in a recent release, "fucking trivial" is a load of bullshit. I've done, and other people I know have done, several installs each, with people that knew what they were doing, and I'm telling you, even with that help, it took at least two days of farking around to get it to install properly.
So I call major bullshit on "fucking trivial"
Right, because agent systems and grid are *so* similar.
Come on now, KQML was a language for doing REST (to a first approximation) a grid is a far more complex concept
No shit. The panacea of KQML was that "everything will talk to everything else", just like the grid, and Corba. You know what? Everyone dropped KQML because they realized they DIDN'T need to talk to everyone else. They just needed to talk to themselves. You end up with so much extra baggage because of this it ends up being a complete pain in the ass.
Again, a complete and utter lack of understanding what the grid is about. Your comment amounts to having a cabal of grid programmers bless a particular language and then demand that everyone write to it. Dumb. Not that there aren't language bigots in the grid community that would do that if they could, but dumb nonetheless This completely misses the point. The point isn't to have everyone write in the same language, it's to have a simple system for people to use. The extra hurdles that people have to get their programming language usable on the grid aren't trivial, and not every language is supported. It adds complexity to the system that shouldn't be required.
The grid solves problems that exist and aren't being solved in other ways except through enormous investment by each and every company that wants to solve them for themselves. Well, now's the time for me to call bullshit. No one is doing this now...they might in the future, but I seriously doubt it. Companies aren't going to be forking over their computations to other companies to do, when they can do what they've been doing in house. More hardware might be sold, but it won't be shared.
In the end, if the grid does actually get used anywhere, it'll be in-house, or in academia. And even there, people are arguing which place is the right place to host most of the activities...which, is completely STUPID, IMHO, because it completely misses the point! I've been in those meetings where they're deciding "where we'll concentrate our X computations" and "site Z will be where we concentrate our Y capabilities". Holy living crap! I've never seen anything so farked up in my life. There are a lot of really pissed off people here because of that.
Another analogy. Your comment is akin to demanding that instead of adopting Windows (which is a hassle to install, run and keep secure) that they instead write their own operating system tuned to their own needs. Sillyness
This completely makes my point. We don't need another one of these things. There are plenty of lighter weight alternatives out there which people have developed and have been using for the last few years. One great example is Cisco's Spanish Inquistion built on top of Jini. (spare me the language bigotry...not you...the other readers of this).
I wish luddites would do a bit of reading and educate themselves before assuming that everything they didn't come up with is nonesense.
And double at ya....most of the last eight years (and my involvement has been for the last six) has been pedaling this crap. The dot.com crash is what made people latch onto this. Before that, you couldn't give it away...which is ironic, because they were.
In the aftermath of the dot com crash, companies are falling over themselves trying to snag onto the "next big thing".
Now we have two different worlds colliding, with people pushing 'em that have been ignoring each other all this time.
They've at least recognized this, however, there's still a HUGE problem.
They can't make it easy for the average person to install and use.
They (the Grid folks in particular) seem to be missing this, big time. Globus is NOT easy to install...it's not an out of box experience like any of the P2P things are. It's a multi-day install, and you have to know what the heck you're doing.
Secondly, the world doesn't need yet another Corba-like thing to make everything interoperate with everything else with MORE glue on top of it. KQML should have taught people this lesson back when that was all the rage in agent systems. If you want two systems to talk to each other, couple 'em in whatever language you want and stick to it.
There's so much extra overhead in doing tasks that "the grid" is supposed to take care of....man, I wish these people would just sit back and take notice of the other distributed systems out there that are out there and working and solving problems without foisting yet another distributed computing paradigm (oh hell, I can't believe I used that word...forgive me), on the world.
Lord knows we don't need it entangling reasonably well put together P2P systems with the tentacles of the heavy-weight "Grid".
I hate that too, but I'd rather pay the $2-5 most of those games cost for the 1 month (or less) that I'd play it rather than $50 for a lifetime. Still, it'd be nice to have either option.
The "no camera" rules most people refer to when they're talking about cell phones is "no cameras" in locker rooms, dressing rooms, etc. It's about privacy, not intellectual property.
Someone explain why this is a troll.... I'd like to be able to do this, and if you can, please tell me how, or mod it back up.
If they implemented the required variety of locks and semaphored all the data structures in the kernel, this wouldn't be an issue. I don't see them doing this in the 2.X.x releases tho. That'd be a 3.x or 4.x thing at the rate their going, both in code and mindset.
They need to do full kernel semaphoring too, to get decent interrupt latencies.
I have one: A fully (and I mean data structure by data structure) semaphored kernel.
Hard? Yes. Do-able? Yes. Will Linus "bless" this? Who knows.
This buys you (amongst other things) being able to have one process in kernel context at the same time. Sure, you can do it with semaphores around huge chunks of code, but having finer granulatity of semaphores allows you to have multiple threads in that code at the same time.
This will give a HUGE speed up to the kernel, and as a result, make Linux one helluva lot faster.
People have been harping about this for years tho, and Linus hasn't biten so far. Sooner or later he will, as soon as they get to figuring out what to do about making multi-processor stuff faster, but until then we just have to wait.
Apparently this guy doesn't pay attention to the market.
l
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030228/sff039_1.htm
If "Executive-level" management is making decisions on what programming language people should be using, they're sticking their nose were it doesn't belong. Lower level management (if even that) should be making that decision. Deciding what to use based on biases is always a mistake. I like Java a lot, but using it when something else would be better is a serious mistake....and visa versa.
Well, as much as you'd like to think that it's yours, your interaction on a site is THEIR data. Info like credit cards, are of course, yours, but not the way you go through the site. I find it a bit surprising that law enforcement can just fax things off, but again, as long as it's their data, they can do whatever they want with it.
Yeah, loved it when Goldblum wrote that virus that went right past McAfee for Aliens.
Probably one of the closest (besides Office Space) is the kids in the van in Enemy of the State.
Great.... Firefly.com has a patent for this sort of thing, and now Microsoft has it (Microsoft bought them). Is this another case of something getting off the ground and then squashed because of lawyers?
Eech.
yeah, but does EVERY company put that stuff on the websites? I'll bet they don't.
You mean someone that makes something, and then protects it with a license so no one can violate the intentions of the person/people that made it?
You can't stand on the principle that some licensing restrictions on things that people want is ok to steal, but the stuff with other licensing restrictions isn't ok to steal.
Either give it all away for free, or stand by all the licenses, whether you like them or not. You can't have it both ways and stand on any moral high-ground when you don't agree with something that happens like this.
Like I said in a previous post. I hope this company goes down for it. It's just plain wrong.
Previous story here is on a company that did that. If Japan's encouraging the use of open source (and presumably GPL), what do they ship if they, for example, do an embedded linux port for a microwave? Do they ship a CD with the code with the microwave?
Geeze, if they did that, half the country would use the thing as the coaster, 49 percent would try and mu-wave the thing, and 1 percent (well, less...go with the idea here) would be left figuring how to do cool hacks on it.
Scary thing is, I'm SURE this isn't the first place that's done this sort of thing.
Double standards...gotta love it.
This outfit does other tradeshows too. JavaOne is one of 'em. Wonder if that's still going to happen?