Maybe if you would read a few posts up.. you would see this:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window. - Tabbed browsing is better, more natural. - Rewind and fast forward - The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data. - The start bar - Better and easier customization - Smooth image zoom - Simply faster - Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash. - MSR/Fit to width/SSR - The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done. - Wand, it's simply better. - Author/user modes - All images/cached images/no images toggle - Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great. - Paste and Go - That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want. - Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages. - Reload every - Hotclick
Excuse me for hitting Submit instead of preview acidentally.
I DID prove my points, thank you. And you, are obviously misinformed, because you made a comment that was false. Again, try actually learning what something is because puting it down.
This is better than the "back" and "forward" that have been around for about a decade?
It's good that you're trying to counter an argument when you obviously have not used Opera for more than a day or two. Rewind and Fast Forward are NOT the same thing as back and forward. Here's a link for you since you are unable to look it up for yourself before replying: http://www.opera.com/features/fforward/
It's one of the most useful features in Opera, especially when browsing open directories and message boards.
So it'll take me 4 seconds to load a graphics heavy page rather than 5 seconds. Yawn.
And it'll take a few seconds less to load a message board forum index than firefox. Each time I go back. That's many many seconds saved, and it all adds up.
Or it could just not crash in the first place...
Firefox crashes too. It's a fact of life. At least with Opera, you will not lose what you were doing, so a crash is rarely an inconvenience, when it does occur (a few times a month for me).
All you've got is a big list of worthless features (smooth image zoom) and unsubstantiated claims (better tabbed browsing). How about making a shortened list of differences that actually matter, and back them up with links or at least arguments.
Smooth image zoom may not be 'useful', but it's definately soothing to the eye. Opera does tons of little things like that that simply make it better.
But since you are unable to read the rest of the posts here to find all the special Opera features, I will do it for you again:
Here's a link straight from Opera: All you've got is a big list of worthless features (smooth image zoom) and unsubstantiated claims (better tabbed browsing). How about making a shortened list of differences that actually matter, and back them up with links or at least arguments.
And here's a list straight from me:
- Gestures are better implemented. You can do gestures on anything in the app, including input fields, tabs, and any of the UI. They are most customizable than the touted Firefox equivalent.
- Tabbed browsing is better. It's more natural and works off the bat with Opera. With firefox, you gotta play with it to get it working similar, and it's not fun.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data. This allows it to display pages almost instantly that are in mem cache, whereas ALL other browsers take a few seconds to reload/redraw the page
- The start bar. I'm not going into detail on what it is, but trust me, it's VERY convenient and there is no firefox equivalent AFAIK.
- Better and easier customization. You don't have to find an extension to do something minor like change gestures, toolbars, menus, keyboard shortcuts, etc.
- Smooth image zoom.
- Simply faster. Once you use Opera for a while, you get used to all the little shortcuts that are in there that make for a better browser experience. Firefox only defines shortcuts for a small list of tasks.
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash. Firefox can do this via an extension, but it doesn't allow you to choose to NOT reload the pages on startup like Opera.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR. GREAT thing for web devs so they can see what their page looks like on other machines. Firefox has NO EQUIVALENT, EVEN VIA AN EXTENSION.
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand. I have not extensively used Firefox's stuff, so I can't argue with too much. But hitting Ctrl+Enter to autoenter my info is so convenient.
- Author/user modes. No firefox equivalent.
- All images/cached images/no images toggle. Might be an extension for Firefox, but I have not seen it.
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go. Firefox equiv, but it does not work in the Google Search bar last time I tried it.
-
The interface is still cluttered.
Really? The interace, after getting rid of the ad, is just as streamlined as firefox. And you can customize it completely in a matter of minutes to as be as minimal as you so desire. The interface argument means nothing anymore.
I'm glad to see you liked this version more.. it's definately an improvement. But the interface has been completely cusomtizable for a LONG time! If there's too much stuff, CHANGE IT!
Try validating any page on thottbot.com. I got over 350 errors. Maybe they should make it valid and then see how Opera renders it?
Your other points are merely opinions, so I can't really refute those with anything but more opinion.
No. I was showing that you were being selective and misleading. So I was selective and a bit misleading as well. So many points are left out.. you can't just pick random points and hope Firefox comes out on top.
The original post claimed Opera used blackmail. I showed otherwise. Then it was changed to extortion to save face, and I agreed it is in a twisted sense of the definition. This is not defeat for me, son. This is defeat for you.
What's really sad is that I have to guide you through these simple concepts.
Opera - Fast Firefox - Not as fast Firefox: 2 Opera: 1
Opera - Very small footprint Firefox - Tiny footprint as well Firefox: 3 Opera: 2
Opera - Sometimes a long wait between major updates, but always major features added. Firefox - Updated more often since they load all of the features off onto people writing extensions. Firefox: 3 Opera: 2
Opera - Little setup required on first install Firefox - Plugins and configuration needs to be done before you get all the functionality you want Firefox: 3 Opera: 3
Opera - Blocks popups and with adblock css file, everything else you don't want to see Firefox - Blocks popups and with adblock plugin, everything else you don't want to see Firefox: 4 Opera: 4
Opera - Rendering problems on some pages Firefox - Fewer rendering problems than Opera but more than IE (bad microsoft), and more support for IE's propietary non-standard code Firefox: 4 Opera: 4
Opera - 3.5MB download size! Firefox - 4.7MB before extensions Firefox: 4 Opera: 5
Look at the definition for blackmail. It's using extortion to get money either exposing something you did wrong, or threatening to spread misinformation.
It is the fastest browser of any I've used. It is faster for many many other people. Please, spare me your slow arguments, it holds no water. Opera and Firefox are both best, and they simply differ on different systems.
Actually this version is faster for most people that have tried it. Same thing happens on firefox. It's simply the nature of software.
And no incentive to improve? You apparently haven't paid attention at all to Opera's improvements recently, and in the past.
The bullshit about Opera not caring about anything but making money and resulting in a worse browser.. it's tired and old. It's bullshit. They are a business, but a successful business that listens to their customers and keeps putting out a great product. What is so wrong with this?
If you're not willing to pay, fine, use Firefox. But I'll be quite content using what I believe to be a superior product.
Guess what? That's at LEAST 2 years down the road.
Not to mention, it will take even more time for XAML to become used heavily. Big things like that take time to be adopted.
And do you REALLY thing that things will move over from HTML/XML/XHTML that fast to XAML vs. XUL? Please. I'm guessing somewhere around 5 years at least before this is really an issue.
The fact is, Opera has been the most innovative browser over the past 10 years, and the browser wars are better because of it.
What does the license model have ANYTHING to do with whether or not it's worth the cost?
$40 is more than fair for something most people (especially slashdot readers) use probably every day. I would gladly donate $40 to firefox if I used it often.
Better formatting:
Opera is the most innovative browser on the market, bar none. This is fact, whether people like it or not. Firefox would be not where it is today without Opera.
Why I like Opera better:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window.
- Tabbed browsing is better, more natural.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data.
- The start bar
- Better and easier customization
- Smooth image zoom
- Simply faster
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand, it's simply better.
- Author/user modes
- All images/cached images/no images toggle
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go
- That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want.
- Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages.
- Reload every
- Hotclick
And all the little details that aren't features. Firefox simply can't provide all this, even with extensions. And if there were an extension for each thing.. it would use a lot of resources, be slower, and they would not work as well together.
Opera is the most innovative browser on the market, bar none. This is fact, whether people like it or not. Firefox would be not where it is today without Opera.
Why I like Opera better:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window.
- Tabbed browsing is better, more natural.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data.
- The start bar
- Better and easier customization
- Smooth image zoom
- Simply faster
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand, it's simply better.
- Author/user modes
- All images/cached images/no images toggle
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go
- That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want.
- Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages.
- Reload every
- Hotclick
And all the little details that aren't features. Firefox simply can't provide all this, even with extensions. And if there were an extension for each thing.. it would use a lot of resources, be slower, and they would not work as well together.
T minus 3 posts until Firefox is mentioned.
T minus 5 posts until Opera not being free is mentioned
T minus 10 posts until someone calls Opera bloated.
Anyone want in on a pool?
>> Sure, my const int $var = 27; may look neat (in the same way that, say, Pascal [lysator.liu.se] does), but $var isn't entirely constant, or entirely an integer, it's just a hack which makes it sort of behave like one. The whole thing is an exercise in pseudo-computer science masturbation with little real purpose except to please the managers who dislike the one thing that makes Perl special.
The reason for this is because if you tell the interpreter what sort of data it is, it helps the interpreter do more optimizations with that data. Sure, it's not truly an integer, but at least you're helping the interpreter out but telling it how it can deal with the data.
>> Perl 6 is a complete rewrite, but it keeps all the mess which has accumulated over the previous versions.
Of course, there is a lot of features in Perl. 200 ways to do one thing (which couldnt be considered a bad thing), but it's actually really cool, because it lets you stick to your own style more than other languages. Face it, perl should not be used unless you know what you are doing with it. It can get ugly, but it's powerful and can do certain tasks amazingly well, and better than any other language.
Sure, it's bloated.. but the way it's being designed should make it so the bloat doesn't affect the speed or power.
And you won't truly be able to appreciate Perl (especially 6), until you learn all the shortcuts [features] (not all, but..) . There is a lot to learn about the language before utilizing it's full power, but once you master it (if possible with perl), it becomes really fun.
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe if you would read a few posts up.. you would see this:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window.
- Tabbed browsing is better, more natural.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data.
- The start bar
- Better and easier customization
- Smooth image zoom
- Simply faster
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand, it's simply better.
- Author/user modes
- All images/cached images/no images toggle
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go
- That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want.
- Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages.
- Reload every
- Hotclick
And that's not even all the reasons.
Excuse me for hitting Submit instead of preview acidentally. I DID prove my points, thank you. And you, are obviously misinformed, because you made a comment that was false. Again, try actually learning what something is because puting it down.
This is better than the "back" and "forward" that have been around for about a decade?
It's good that you're trying to counter an argument when you obviously have not used Opera for more than a day or two. Rewind and Fast Forward are NOT the same thing as back and forward. Here's a link for you since you are unable to look it up for yourself before replying: http://www.opera.com/features/fforward/
It's one of the most useful features in Opera, especially when browsing open directories and message boards.
So it'll take me 4 seconds to load a graphics heavy page rather than 5 seconds. Yawn.
And it'll take a few seconds less to load a message board forum index than firefox. Each time I go back. That's many many seconds saved, and it all adds up.
Or it could just not crash in the first place...
Firefox crashes too. It's a fact of life. At least with Opera, you will not lose what you were doing, so a crash is rarely an inconvenience, when it does occur (a few times a month for me).
All you've got is a big list of worthless features (smooth image zoom) and unsubstantiated claims (better tabbed browsing). How about making a shortened list of differences that actually matter, and back them up with links or at least arguments.
Smooth image zoom may not be 'useful', but it's definately soothing to the eye. Opera does tons of little things like that that simply make it better.
But since you are unable to read the rest of the posts here to find all the special Opera features, I will do it for you again:
Here's a link straight from Opera: All you've got is a big list of worthless features (smooth image zoom) and unsubstantiated claims (better tabbed browsing). How about making a shortened list of differences that actually matter, and back them up with links or at least arguments.
And here's a list straight from me:
- Gestures are better implemented. You can do gestures on anything in the app, including input fields, tabs, and any of the UI. They are most customizable than the touted Firefox equivalent.
- Tabbed browsing is better. It's more natural and works off the bat with Opera. With firefox, you gotta play with it to get it working similar, and it's not fun.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data. This allows it to display pages almost instantly that are in mem cache, whereas ALL other browsers take a few seconds to reload/redraw the page
- The start bar. I'm not going into detail on what it is, but trust me, it's VERY convenient and there is no firefox equivalent AFAIK.
- Better and easier customization. You don't have to find an extension to do something minor like change gestures, toolbars, menus, keyboard shortcuts, etc.
- Smooth image zoom.
- Simply faster. Once you use Opera for a while, you get used to all the little shortcuts that are in there that make for a better browser experience. Firefox only defines shortcuts for a small list of tasks.
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash. Firefox can do this via an extension, but it doesn't allow you to choose to NOT reload the pages on startup like Opera.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR. GREAT thing for web devs so they can see what their page looks like on other machines. Firefox has NO EQUIVALENT, EVEN VIA AN EXTENSION.
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand. I have not extensively used Firefox's stuff, so I can't argue with too much. But hitting Ctrl+Enter to autoenter my info is so convenient.
- Author/user modes. No firefox equivalent.
- All images/cached images/no images toggle. Might be an extension for Firefox, but I have not seen it.
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go. Firefox equiv, but it does not work in the Google Search bar last time I tried it.
-
The interface is still cluttered. Really? The interace, after getting rid of the ad, is just as streamlined as firefox. And you can customize it completely in a matter of minutes to as be as minimal as you so desire. The interface argument means nothing anymore. I'm glad to see you liked this version more.. it's definately an improvement. But the interface has been completely cusomtizable for a LONG time! If there's too much stuff, CHANGE IT!
Try validating any page on thottbot.com. I got over 350 errors. Maybe they should make it valid and then see how Opera renders it? Your other points are merely opinions, so I can't really refute those with anything but more opinion.
Nice misinformation there.
Try also linking to all the 0.x vulnerabilities, since 1.0 has only been out since recently.
http://secunia.com/product/3256/ That's 18 vulns since May 2004 For 0.x, and 4 for 1.x. 12 In 7 months.
And if you actually LOOKED at the opera link.. 31 since JANUARY 2003. 13 since May 2004.
Face it, Opera and Firefox are on par for security.
No. I was showing that you were being selective and misleading. So I was selective and a bit misleading as well. So many points are left out.. you can't just pick random points and hope Firefox comes out on top.
The original post claimed Opera used blackmail. I showed otherwise. Then it was changed to extortion to save face, and I agreed it is in a twisted sense of the definition. This is not defeat for me, son. This is defeat for you.
What's really sad is that I have to guide you through these simple concepts.
This is a little more fitting..
Opera - $$$
Firefox - Free beer, Free speech
Firefox: 1 Opera: 0
Opera - Fast
Firefox - Not as fast
Firefox: 2 Opera: 1
Opera - Very small footprint
Firefox - Tiny footprint as well
Firefox: 3 Opera: 2
Opera - Sometimes a long wait between major updates, but always major features added.
Firefox - Updated more often since they load all of the features off onto people writing extensions.
Firefox: 3 Opera: 2
Opera - Little setup required on first install
Firefox - Plugins and configuration needs to be done before you get all the functionality you want
Firefox: 3 Opera: 3
Opera - Blocks popups and with adblock css file, everything else you don't want to see
Firefox - Blocks popups and with adblock plugin, everything else you don't want to see
Firefox: 4 Opera: 4
Opera - Rendering problems on some pages
Firefox - Fewer rendering problems than Opera but more than IE (bad microsoft), and more support for IE's propietary non-standard code
Firefox: 4 Opera: 4
Opera - 3.5MB download size!
Firefox - 4.7MB before extensions
Firefox: 4 Opera: 5
And thus is the graceful concession from the Anonymous Coward. Thank you for trying, but you have failed.
Pay us $39 or view advertisements every minute whilst you browse.
/. in a while.
That is extortion.
Game over vcv.
While technically correct, this has to be the most retarded statement on
Maybe it is extortion, in a twisted sense of the defintion, but it is NOT blackmail as was originally argued.
Nice try on the flame bait. I'd mod it as funny if I could.
It's funny how you conveniently left out the second part of the second definition:
Something of value extorted in this manner.
'this' being the first definition.
Look at the definition for blackmail. It's using extortion to get money either exposing something you did wrong, or threatening to spread misinformation.
Opera does neither. Do you get it yet?
Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
Yeah.. sure sounds like blackmail to me. Glad to see you're up to par on the defintion of simple words.
It is the fastest browser of any I've used. It is faster for many many other people. Please, spare me your slow arguments, it holds no water. Opera and Firefox are both best, and they simply differ on different systems.
Actually this version is faster for most people that have tried it. Same thing happens on firefox. It's simply the nature of software. And no incentive to improve? You apparently haven't paid attention at all to Opera's improvements recently, and in the past. The bullshit about Opera not caring about anything but making money and resulting in a worse browser.. it's tired and old. It's bullshit. They are a business, but a successful business that listens to their customers and keeps putting out a great product. What is so wrong with this? If you're not willing to pay, fine, use Firefox. But I'll be quite content using what I believe to be a superior product.
But not all software CAN be. Free software is great, but doesn't mean it's always better.
Guess what? That's at LEAST 2 years down the road. Not to mention, it will take even more time for XAML to become used heavily. Big things like that take time to be adopted. And do you REALLY thing that things will move over from HTML/XML/XHTML that fast to XAML vs. XUL? Please. I'm guessing somewhere around 5 years at least before this is really an issue. The fact is, Opera has been the most innovative browser over the past 10 years, and the browser wars are better because of it.
What does the license model have ANYTHING to do with whether or not it's worth the cost? $40 is more than fair for something most people (especially slashdot readers) use probably every day. I would gladly donate $40 to firefox if I used it often.
Better formatting: Opera is the most innovative browser on the market, bar none. This is fact, whether people like it or not. Firefox would be not where it is today without Opera.
Why I like Opera better:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window.
- Tabbed browsing is better, more natural.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data.
- The start bar
- Better and easier customization
- Smooth image zoom
- Simply faster
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand, it's simply better.
- Author/user modes
- All images/cached images/no images toggle
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go
- That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want.
- Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages.
- Reload every
- Hotclick
And all the little details that aren't features. Firefox simply can't provide all this, even with extensions. And if there were an extension for each thing.. it would use a lot of resources, be slower, and they would not work as well together.
Opera is the most innovative browser on the market, bar none. This is fact, whether people like it or not. Firefox would be not where it is today without Opera. Why I like Opera better: - Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window. - Tabbed browsing is better, more natural. - Rewind and fast forward - The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data. - The start bar - Better and easier customization - Smooth image zoom - Simply faster - Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash. - MSR/Fit to width/SSR - The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done. - Wand, it's simply better. - Author/user modes - All images/cached images/no images toggle - Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great. - Paste and Go - That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want. - Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages. - Reload every - Hotclick And all the little details that aren't features. Firefox simply can't provide all this, even with extensions. And if there were an extension for each thing.. it would use a lot of resources, be slower, and they would not work as well together.
T minus 3 posts until Firefox is mentioned. T minus 5 posts until Opera not being free is mentioned T minus 10 posts until someone calls Opera bloated. Anyone want in on a pool?
Does he even have any ground to stand on, because of the extra "x" in his alias? It's like Jon Doe suing Fox for their John Doe TV series.
>> Sure, my const int $var = 27; may look neat (in the same way that, say, Pascal [lysator.liu.se] does), but $var isn't entirely constant, or entirely an integer, it's just a hack which makes it sort of behave like one. The whole thing is an exercise in pseudo-computer science masturbation with little real purpose except to please the managers who dislike the one thing that makes Perl special.
The reason for this is because if you tell the interpreter what sort of data it is, it helps the interpreter do more optimizations with that data. Sure, it's not truly an integer, but at least you're helping the interpreter out but telling it how it can deal with the data.
>> Perl 6 is a complete rewrite, but it keeps all the mess which has accumulated over the previous versions.
Of course, there is a lot of features in Perl. 200 ways to do one thing (which couldnt be considered a bad thing), but it's actually really cool, because it lets you stick to your own style more than other languages. Face it, perl should not be used unless you know what you are doing with it. It can get ugly, but it's powerful and can do certain tasks amazingly well, and better than any other language.
Sure, it's bloated.. but the way it's being designed should make it so the bloat doesn't affect the speed or power.
And you won't truly be able to appreciate Perl (especially 6), until you learn all the shortcuts [features] (not all, but..) . There is a lot to learn about the language before utilizing it's full power, but once you master it (if possible with perl), it becomes really fun.