I thought it was a touchy idea when I first heard about it as well. And I thought it would be impossible to get kids to work a computer well, much less not do anything bad with them.
But there they are 2 years after I have learned that fact and they're going strong making websites (static and Flash, database driven and not) for such people like LeMond/Trek Bikes, Marquette University, UW-Milwaukee, Northwestern Mutual, Amoco/BP, and the City of Chicago's Commercial Club and Civic Commitee. They're also developing online applications for the likes of Milwaukee Public Schools, Verizon Wireless, and they're making they're own content management system that's more complete and well tested than most of the CMS's I've seen by far...and they haven't done anything criminal with them.
They laugh at WYSIWIGS about as much as they're probably laughing at the massive amount of ignorance flying around this discussion and while people are busy lambasting other people who are actually doing something productive and good and actually succeeding in reforming lives.
And the've been around for more than 6 years now and they're expanding when everyone else is pretty much having a hard time.
There are too many misnomers out on this discussion. "Gang-bangers", "Programmers", "Hackers". All these terms are flying around this discussion thicker than lead in a heavy drive-by. Yet almost noone wants to know what the other people really mean but rather take pleasure in posting their own posts with equivalent misnomers and stereotyping.
It's true that these guys do HTML but that's only the tip of the iceberg. Like you said, not all computer jobs are created equal but if you were to actually write these people and find out what they do, you'd be able to find at least 2 people in there who do one aspect or the other for the IT industry...everything from system administration to application coding to designing.
And while not all computer jobs are created equal, talent does dictate how high you rise to the top and your success rate. the fact that these guys have been around for a long time and actually know what they're doing and have the portfolio to prove it shows a lot.
They've done websites (static and Flash) for Marquette University and the City of Chicago's Civic Committee and Commercial Club, they've developed applications for Verizon Wireless and The City of Milwaukee's Public School Systems, have a cooperative project with the Milwaukee Institute of Art and Design, and have created multi media presentations for Northwestern Mutual, The Anne E casey, Betty Brinn, and Petit Foundations, and a whole hell of a lot more since I've known them.
The kicker is, these guys are getting better and they're expanding.
it SOUNDS like yet ANOTHER employment program but it isn't. I've had the opportunity to actually see these people in action and they're much better than most of the people posting messages on slashdot when it comes to developing HTML, open source applications, Flash/database integration and whatever else they feel like learning at the time. Do-Gooders, ok, they'll take that. Misguided? I've never met a group of people with their heads screwed on straighter. And there might be a lot of competition but that's amongst the more amateur static-HTML only WYSIWIG "developers". It's a different story when you know what you're doing and you're actually good at it and these guys are pretty good. Hell, they're expanding when other dot-commers are going down.
Besides, the fact that it's reformed kids doing the work makes a great marketing tool. Add talent, dedication, and honest-to-goodness skills and these so-called "new carreers" the kids get at places like NuEdgeSystems, Amoco, and the work they've done for LeMond bikes, Marquette University, the city of Chicago's Commercial Club and Civic Committee, and the Anne E. Casey, Betty Brinn, and Petit Foundations and you have one hell of a set of players on the field that you can't count out.
I can't help but feel how absurd so many people are being because they're subscribing to stereotypes it's just plain dumb. First of all, I have to question the validity of any argument based on a stereotype (the smae one, mind you that's got computer geeks pegged as lame, pocket protector, acne'd, fat, Lara Croft loving wimps) and moreso, I question the validity of anyon'es intelligence for believing it enough to write messages. Do they know how ignorant they sound?
The amount of ignorance I'm reading in these posts astounds me. With the exception of a couple, all I see are people making fun of something that they don't know. What's up? Afraid of people you don't know anything about? There's a lot of insecurity in a lot of these messages if not downright malice.
It's perfectly ok to slam on something that you know sucks but a majority of these posts are directed at stereotypes. And those are the same stereotypes that have computer geeks pegged as pasty faced, four-eyed (replete with tape holding the frame together), gap toothed, acne'd wimps that can't get a date to save their lives. You all know how unfair, ignorant, and downright wrong those stereotypes are yet here are literally hundreds of posts from people who I hope would know better than to cater to such stupidity. That kind of thinking displays as much intelligence as is needed to get around AOL.
Saying that those who have had lives impacted by poverty and gang-related activity have no place in the computer world is as judgemental as saying computer geeks are a bunch of code-loving, pocket protecting, game playing, no-life-having losers.
It's ridiculous to say that computer games made geek loser kids in high school shoot classmates. It's just as ridiculous to say that kids whose lives have been impacted by violence and want to change it can't hack on a keyboard. Have you ever seen their work? Do the posters of the "Bang you dead motherfucka!" messages know these people in person? There's no detail in how that organization works and there's even less information on the people involved so how about we all do our research before getting too happy with the keyboard?
Slashdot Mirror
But there they are 2 years after I have learned that fact and they're going strong making websites (static and Flash, database driven and not) for such people like LeMond/Trek Bikes, Marquette University, UW-Milwaukee, Northwestern Mutual, Amoco/BP, and the City of Chicago's Commercial Club and Civic Commitee. They're also developing online applications for the likes of Milwaukee Public Schools, Verizon Wireless, and they're making they're own content management system that's more complete and well tested than most of the CMS's I've seen by far...and they haven't done anything criminal with them.
They laugh at WYSIWIGS about as much as they're probably laughing at the massive amount of ignorance flying around this discussion and while people are busy lambasting other people who are actually doing something productive and good and actually succeeding in reforming lives.
And the've been around for more than 6 years now and they're expanding when everyone else is pretty much having a hard time.
It's true that these guys do HTML but that's only the tip of the iceberg. Like you said, not all computer jobs are created equal but if you were to actually write these people and find out what they do, you'd be able to find at least 2 people in there who do one aspect or the other for the IT industry...everything from system administration to application coding to designing.
And while not all computer jobs are created equal, talent does dictate how high you rise to the top and your success rate. the fact that these guys have been around for a long time and actually know what they're doing and have the portfolio to prove it shows a lot.
They've done websites (static and Flash) for Marquette University and the City of Chicago's Civic Committee and Commercial Club, they've developed applications for Verizon Wireless and The City of Milwaukee's Public School Systems, have a cooperative project with the Milwaukee Institute of Art and Design, and have created multi media presentations for Northwestern Mutual, The Anne E casey, Betty Brinn, and Petit Foundations, and a whole hell of a lot more since I've known them.
The kicker is, these guys are getting better and they're expanding.
Besides, the fact that it's reformed kids doing the work makes a great marketing tool. Add talent, dedication, and honest-to-goodness skills and these so-called "new carreers" the kids get at places like NuEdgeSystems, Amoco, and the work they've done for LeMond bikes, Marquette University, the city of Chicago's Commercial Club and Civic Committee, and the Anne E. Casey, Betty Brinn, and Petit Foundations and you have one hell of a set of players on the field that you can't count out.
I can't help but feel how absurd so many people are being because they're subscribing to stereotypes it's just plain dumb. First of all, I have to question the validity of any argument based on a stereotype (the smae one, mind you that's got computer geeks pegged as lame, pocket protector, acne'd, fat, Lara Croft loving wimps) and moreso, I question the validity of anyon'es intelligence for believing it enough to write messages. Do they know how ignorant they sound?
It's perfectly ok to slam on something that you know sucks but a majority of these posts are directed at stereotypes. And those are the same stereotypes that have computer geeks pegged as pasty faced, four-eyed (replete with tape holding the frame together), gap toothed, acne'd wimps that can't get a date to save their lives. You all know how unfair, ignorant, and downright wrong those stereotypes are yet here are literally hundreds of posts from people who I hope would know better than to cater to such stupidity. That kind of thinking displays as much intelligence as is needed to get around AOL.
Saying that those who have had lives impacted by poverty and gang-related activity have no place in the computer world is as judgemental as saying computer geeks are a bunch of code-loving, pocket protecting, game playing, no-life-having losers.
It's ridiculous to say that computer games made geek loser kids in high school shoot classmates. It's just as ridiculous to say that kids whose lives have been impacted by violence and want to change it can't hack on a keyboard. Have you ever seen their work? Do the posters of the "Bang you dead motherfucka!" messages know these people in person? There's no detail in how that organization works and there's even less information on the people involved so how about we all do our research before getting too happy with the keyboard?