At the end of my junior year of highschool i had managed to hack out a little peice of the appletalk network and stuck of a copy of doom and quake there. I could play the games anywhere in the building. It was pretty sweet.
Not saying macs don't suck, but they have better game support then Linux.
Despite the fact that Microsoft will be very against it, what can they do to hackers porting Linux to it (if you can call it a "port")
Well, that's the reason it won't be. I mean, there were demo communities around the Dreamcast and N64(using a hacked Hong Kong IDE bridge (Z64), a very sweet device and twice as expensive as the game system. It was intended to be used to pirate games).
The thing is, they never really got 'big' because the companies didn't support them. You had to do all kinds of weird things, or pay out the ass, to the system to get it to work. And most importantly you needed a separate PC to code on.
Sure, someone might get Linux on the Xbox, but it wouldn't be much different then what happened with the DC. Not very big.
With support from Sony, there's a chance for something really interesting to come out of all of this.
Ironically, that's why I *didn't* href the link. I was worried it would break in the tag
I've never seen that happen. Although I have seen lots of plaintext URLs get broken up and need editing in the URL bar, but I've never seen the URL inside a link tag get broken. Anyway, you can do both like I did, and have the Link text be the same as the link, um, link.
I just assumed most people who don't link links are posting in plaintext mode or something. Keep in mind that the combined effort of 100 or 1000 people copy+pasteing a URL is way more then it takes to link a link in a comment.
As to 1394 networking being more bandwidth than 100mbit networking that is incorrect. 1394 does have a 400mbit bus but due to all of the overhead involved it can only pump out about 70mbits of actual data per second.
Wow, that sucks. I assume thats if you're trying to network, not for applications like A/V, right?
And don't forget that Ethernet has a lot of overhead too, especialy on large networks.
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
There are a lot of people who would buy this just for playing around. There are a lot of people who enjoy computing for it's own sake, the people who make companies like Abit profitable.
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
It's very simple to do. (<a href="URL">link text</a> in HTML posting mode) and makes everyone's life a little easier. Text links defeat the whole purpose of the web, and if they are to long slashcode inserts spaces into them that keep the page format from getting screwed up (but also break the URLs)
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
Well, Sony is only required to give the source to people who they give/sell the software to. Not everyone in the world. Since this is only in beta, and a few people have it, its a non-issue. When the system goes into wide release, though, it would be a different matter. Presumably Sony would send a CD along with the unit containing any modified source (same as with products like the Tivo)
But I doubt Linux for the X-Box will ever amount to much. I mean, yeh people ported Linux to the dreamcast, but its not like millions of DC owners out there used it for anything.
PS2 Linux, OTOH, is going to be major. Supported by the company that makes the hardware (and maybe even a marketing campaign if we're lucky), it could end up being major. And in a lot of peoples hands that wouldn't normally go around hacking their videogame hardware.
Is it possible to do n-way (n>2) networking with fire wire? I was intending to use USB because each unit has two USB ports - so each unit can be daisy chained to two others (granted, I suppose they'd have to be set up as routers).
I'm not actually sure you can daisy chain USB right out of the box like that. Maybe with some extra software.
On the other hand, you can plug as many boxes in with Firewire if you get a hub. Gran Tourismo 3 actually allows you to link up 6 PS2s (the most number of cars on the road in the game) via Firewire/iLink if you get a hub.
But yeh, people are probably just going to use the Ethernet that comes with the Linux kit:P
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
wouldn't that be more likely to have Linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
The PS2 has been out a lot longer, Had a Linux based development kit, has had a Linux port out in Japan for a while now, oh, and it isn't controlled by a corporation that considers Linux the "number 1 threat".
Sony has been on the Linux bandwagon with the PS2 for a while. Remember they ported this themselves, it's not a hack.
If you're going to use the built in networking on the PS2, why use USB? The thing comes with firewire ports! Thats more bandwidth then 100baseT ethernet:)
I have 'us celular' And while my phone has the software to send emails, I can't do it because my provider dosn't suppor it. People can send mail to my phone though, or use a web based interface to send me text messages.
There's this little button next to 'reply' that reads 'parent'. If you click it, you'll see the post I was replying to. Well, if you're threshold is low enough.
For you're convenience, I've pasted that message here:
3G vs. 3GIO (Score:1)
by Fucky Badger on Monday December 03, @11:11AM (#2647983)
(User #535691 Info)
I heard that the EM radiation from Intel's new 3GIO bus interferes with 3G wireless devices. Intel has therefore been blocking the introduction of 3G wireless in the US.
Is there any truth to this rumour? thanks ok bye
Oh, and it is possible for a device to cause interference at the frequency it's running at, if the signals are strong enough, and the shielding isn't on. A PC without it's case on can actually be illegal for home use in the US, because it moves from a Class B computer to a Class A. But the whole point of my post was that it probably wouldn't cause any problems at all.
So a better question would be are you kidding or just confused?
My nokia 8260 actually gets pretty hot after conversing for a while, hot enough that talking got a little uncomfortable:P
But when it was just sitting in my pocket, things were fine. I'd guess it won't be a problem while you're not actually *using* the services, and chips do get faster after a while so it'll probably only be a real problem for first-gen machines, if even that.
It would certainly be sweet though; with modern audio compression on a monaural audio track you could probably get near CD quality with just 32-48kbps. (well, at least as close as would matter with the kind of microphones and speakers you'd be using with a cell phone... probably 22khz with 16bit sampling would be good enough)
Unfortunately, most people are happy (and used to) shitty sound quality over the phone. They'll probably just compress the hell out of regular voice to save overall bandwidth (ie, why have everyone using the full pipe when you could have them using 12kbps, with packet-switched systems it really would make a difference)
Does anyone know why these companies choose to use different standards?
Of course, if, as you say UMTS and IS2000 are electrically similar, you might be able to make a phone that would work on either system, and thus a phone that could work anywhere. (Although if history is any indicator even if that's the case it still won't allow you to actually use anywhere)
If high speed internet for a traditional internet market is floundering... who's going to jump on the band wagon for high speed Cell Phones?
Well, there is a major interest in getting the infrastructure out there, what's interesting is that according to the FCCs 3g page the bandwidth from a 'stationary' install can be up to 2mbits/sec... faster then DSL. It would be pretty ironic if people ended up using wireless for home internet the way some people now use wireless for home telephone.
NO ONE is going to watch video over a phone for long periods of time, even if the battery could handle it.
Yes they will. You put a camera on the phone (remember this bandwidth is two way), and video conference with other 3g users. No one is going to stream TV* onto their cell, but video does have its uses on phones.
*(Although I wonder if some phone makers might not stick UHF/VHF receivers onto their videophones the way some are putting FM radio receivers in. A lot of places around the country still have active TV broadcasts that only require an antenna to receive, although in some places it's mostly cable-only)
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At the end of my junior year of highschool i had managed to hack out a little peice of the appletalk network and stuck of a copy of doom and quake there. I could play the games anywhere in the building. It was pretty sweet.
Not saying macs don't suck, but they have better game support then Linux.
Despite the fact that Microsoft will be very against it, what can they do to hackers porting Linux to it (if you can call it a "port")
Well, that's the reason it won't be. I mean, there were demo communities around the Dreamcast and N64(using a hacked Hong Kong IDE bridge (Z64), a very sweet device and twice as expensive as the game system. It was intended to be used to pirate games).
The thing is, they never really got 'big' because the companies didn't support them. You had to do all kinds of weird things, or pay out the ass, to the system to get it to work. And most importantly you needed a separate PC to code on.
Sure, someone might get Linux on the Xbox, but it wouldn't be much different then what happened with the DC. Not very big.
With support from Sony, there's a chance for something really interesting to come out of all of this.
Read it again, he's sayin that M$ will release a Windows XP CD for the Xbox.
SDL is only for 2d and media access to the hardware, not 3d. It does most of the directX stuff, but not D3d.
Ironically, that's why I *didn't* href the link. I was worried it would break in the tag
I've never seen that happen. Although I have seen lots of plaintext URLs get broken up and need editing in the URL bar, but I've never seen the URL inside a link tag get broken. Anyway, you can do both like I did, and have the Link text be the same as the link, um, link.
I just assumed most people who don't link links are posting in plaintext mode or something. Keep in mind that the combined effort of 100 or 1000 people copy+pasteing a URL is way more then it takes to link a link in a comment.
As to 1394 networking being more bandwidth than 100mbit networking that is incorrect. 1394 does have a 400mbit bus but due to all of the overhead involved it can only pump out about 70mbits of actual data per second.
Wow, that sucks. I assume thats if you're trying to network, not for applications like A/V, right?
And don't forget that Ethernet has a lot of overhead too, especialy on large networks.
The Xbox still dosn't have 'online' play, just lan. Which the PS2 can do via firewire.
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
There are a lot of people who would buy this just for playing around. There are a lot of people who enjoy computing for it's own sake, the people who make companies like Abit profitable.
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/10/24/linux .ps2.idg/
It's very simple to do. (<a href="URL">link text</a> in HTML posting mode) and makes everyone's life a little easier. Text links defeat the whole purpose of the web, and if they are to long slashcode inserts spaces into them that keep the page format from getting screwed up (but also break the URLs)
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
Well, Sony is only required to give the source to people who they give/sell the software to. Not everyone in the world. Since this is only in beta, and a few people have it, its a non-issue. When the system goes into wide release, though, it would be a different matter. Presumably Sony would send a CD along with the unit containing any modified source (same as with products like the Tivo)
But I doubt Linux for the X-Box will ever amount to much. I mean, yeh people ported Linux to the dreamcast, but its not like millions of DC owners out there used it for anything.
PS2 Linux, OTOH, is going to be major. Supported by the company that makes the hardware (and maybe even a marketing campaign if we're lucky), it could end up being major. And in a lot of peoples hands that wouldn't normally go around hacking their videogame hardware.
Is it possible to do n-way (n>2) networking with fire wire? I was intending to use USB because each unit has two USB ports - so each unit can be daisy chained to two others (granted, I suppose they'd have to be set up as routers).
:P
I'm not actually sure you can daisy chain USB right out of the box like that. Maybe with some extra software.
On the other hand, you can plug as many boxes in with Firewire if you get a hub. Gran Tourismo 3 actually allows you to link up 6 PS2s (the most number of cars on the road in the game) via Firewire/iLink if you get a hub.
But yeh, people are probably just going to use the Ethernet that comes with the Linux kit
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
wouldn't that be more likely to have Linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
The PS2 has been out a lot longer, Had a Linux based development kit, has had a Linux port out in Japan for a while now, oh, and it isn't controlled by a corporation that considers Linux the "number 1 threat".
Sony has been on the Linux bandwagon with the PS2 for a while. Remember they ported this themselves, it's not a hack.
If you're going to use the built in networking on the PS2, why use USB? The thing comes with firewire ports! Thats more bandwidth then 100baseT ethernet :)
I have 'us celular' And while my phone has the software to send emails, I can't do it because my provider dosn't suppor it. People can send mail to my phone though, or use a web based interface to send me text messages.
Are you kidding or just confused?
There's this little button next to 'reply' that reads 'parent'. If you click it, you'll see the post I was replying to. Well, if you're threshold is low enough.
For you're convenience, I've pasted that message here:
3G vs. 3GIO (Score:1)
by Fucky Badger on Monday December 03, @11:11AM (#2647983) (User #535691 Info)
I heard that the EM radiation from Intel's new 3GIO bus interferes with 3G wireless devices. Intel has therefore been blocking the introduction of 3G wireless in the US. Is there any truth to this rumour? thanks ok bye
Oh, and it is possible for a device to cause interference at the frequency it's running at, if the signals are strong enough, and the shielding isn't on. A PC without it's case on can actually be illegal for home use in the US, because it moves from a Class B computer to a Class A. But the whole point of my post was that it probably wouldn't cause any problems at all.
So a better question would be are you kidding or just confused?
My nokia 8260 actually gets pretty hot after conversing for a while, hot enough that talking got a little uncomfortable :P
But when it was just sitting in my pocket, things were fine. I'd guess it won't be a problem while you're not actually *using* the services, and chips do get faster after a while so it'll probably only be a real problem for first-gen machines, if even that.
Everyone knows the PCS is so much cooler than everyone else anyway.
Um, actually "PCS" is just a catch-all for digital celliphony (did I just make up a word?)
It would certainly be sweet though; with modern audio compression on a monaural audio track you could probably get near CD quality with just 32-48kbps. (well, at least as close as would matter with the kind of microphones and speakers you'd be using with a cell phone... probably 22khz with 16bit sampling would be good enough)
Unfortunately, most people are happy (and used to) shitty sound quality over the phone. They'll probably just compress the hell out of regular voice to save overall bandwidth (ie, why have everyone using the full pipe when you could have them using 12kbps, with packet-switched systems it really would make a difference)
Yeah....@Home's downfall was partenring with that life-sucking portal Excite
:P
The downside: purchased for $3.5 billion, sold for $10 mllion
The upside: purchased for @home stock, sold for cash
Does anyone know why these companies choose to use different standards?
Of course, if, as you say UMTS and IS2000 are electrically similar, you might be able to make a phone that would work on either system, and thus a phone that could work anywhere. (Although if history is any indicator even if that's the case it still won't allow you to actually use anywhere)
If high speed internet for a traditional internet market is floundering... who's going to jump on the band wagon for high speed Cell Phones?
Well, there is a major interest in getting the infrastructure out there, what's interesting is that according to the FCCs 3g page the bandwidth from a 'stationary' install can be up to 2mbits/sec... faster then DSL. It would be pretty ironic if people ended up using wireless for home internet the way some people now use wireless for home telephone.
NO ONE is going to watch video over a phone for long periods of time, even if the battery could handle it.
Yes they will. You put a camera on the phone (remember this bandwidth is two way), and video conference with other 3g users. No one is going to stream TV* onto their cell, but video does have its uses on phones.
*(Although I wonder if some phone makers might not stick UHF/VHF receivers onto their videophones the way some are putting FM radio receivers in. A lot of places around the country still have active TV broadcasts that only require an antenna to receive, although in some places it's mostly cable-only)