Posted by
timothy
on from the they-bought-all-the-blue-leds dept.
msolnik writes: "The U.S. version of Playstation 2 Linux is getting ready to hit the streets. Here is an review of the first public beta. It really looks sweet and comes with a lot of nice hardware. I can't wait for it to start selling -- finally I will have a legit reason to buy a PS2."
We can't do gl for ps2, but we know MS/Nvidia will still have a GL api for X-box(Carmack) Offtopic, yes, but when can we hack x-boxes?
Next computer.
by
_Knots
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Ok, who thinks they just found their next computer? I know I've been waiting for this to happen for a long while so I could finally justify the cost of one or more PS2s (mmm, USB networking) - it's not a toy, it's my development station! Err... yeah! ^^;;
Re:Next computer.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Not being a game console person
(except for that atari with the slanted cartridge), I have to ask the stupid questions
like, is availability of units going
to be an issue when this kit(or whatever) hits
the streets? Is there usually a hold list at
the retail outlets? Also is it possible for
us to trade Microsoft for Sony, so that the
japanese can have the albatross and we(USA)
can have the cool company??
If a linux-powered PS2 costs 1/10th of an Athlon where you live, then either the PS2's are dirt cheap or the Athlons are outrageously expensive. Here in Canada, PS2's still cost 450$ (CDN), while an Athlon 1.4ghz goes for 169$, a board is 99$, etc.. you can build a decent box for about 400$ CDN, less than a PS2's going price.
In this case, price/performance on the PS2 is crap for anything but games.
The retail price for one of these is expected to be $150 from what I hear. I wouldn't say its a very bad price. Its also supposed to come with some other nice goodies including an emulator for x86 only supposed to be used for coding heheh:).
Re:Retail Price and Goodies
by
karm13
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· Score: 1
$150 sounds fair. after all, it includes a 40GB HDD.
--
-- making up good sigs is a hard thing to do.
Re:Retail Price and Goodies
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
>Hey fuckface.. he's talking about the kit ONLY!
>You need a PS2 in order to use this kit which would then be in total
>around $449.
>I did the math for you since I assume you're a stupid fucker.
>
>
Wrong loser. There are 20 million people who already bought/own PS2's. For these people the cost of the kit *IS* $150.00. Which puts another nail in the Xbox's coffin.
Re:Retail Price and Goodies
by
iapetus
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· Score: 2
If you're thinking of using that emulator for anything other than coding, give up now. You aren't going to come close to running PS2 games in real time in an emulator for a long time. Just look at some of the insane bandwidth accessing the scratch RAM in the GS, or the capabilities of VU0 and VU1.
-- ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
I think this is odd. Since X box uses pc hardware, wouldn't that be more likely to have linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
I can't wait to get a beo*slap* i'll shut up now.
--
Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
If you're going to use the built in networking on the PS2, why use USB? The thing comes with firewire ports! Thats more bandwidth then 100baseT ethernet:)
Is it possible to do n-way (n>2) networking with firewire? I was intending to use USB because each unit has two USB ports - so each unit can be daisychained to two others (granted, I suppose they'd have to be set up as routers).
OTOH, this is all roughly moot, because as the article points out the kits come with ethernet connectors - we could always just use those for their intended purpose. ^_^
Yes, Firewire can be used to network couputers daisy-chain style. I'm not sure if you can do such a thing with USB.
domc
Re:USB?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Should be very possible, it's just another serial protocol. The problem is that USB ethernet adapters are cheap and readily available, I'm not sure I can say the same thing about FireWire->ethernet.
Is it possible to do n-way (n>2) networking with fire wire? I was intending to use USB because each unit has two USB ports - so each unit can be daisy chained to two others (granted, I suppose they'd have to be set up as routers).
I'm not actually sure you can daisy chain USB right out of the box like that. Maybe with some extra software.
On the other hand, you can plug as many boxes in with Firewire if you get a hub. Gran Tourismo 3 actually allows you to link up 6 PS2s (the most number of cars on the road in the game) via Firewire/iLink if you get a hub.
But yeh, people are probably just going to use the Ethernet that comes with the Linux kit:P
No you can not just plug one usb controller to another. You have to have essentially a piece of harware that works as a crossover due to the power issues on the bus (it would cause neg - neg and then pos - pos. not really a good idea).
As to 1394 networking being more bandwidth than 100mbit networking that is incorrect. 1394 does have a 400mbit bus but due to all of the overhead involved it can only pump out about 70mbits of actual data per second.
As to 1394 networking being more bandwidth than 100mbit networking that is incorrect. 1394 does have a 400mbit bus but due to all of the overhead involved it can only pump out about 70mbits of actual data per second.
Wow, that sucks. I assume thats if you're trying to network, not for applications like A/V, right?
And don't forget that Ethernet has a lot of overhead too, especialy on large networks.
This is not such a great idea. RJ45 has eight wires; USB has positive and negative. So your CPU has to do the conversion, which of course costs you CPU time, which in turn slows down your machine.
You have to buy the whole kit anyway, no use in not using everything you have to pay for.
If I recall correctly, you can actually link 7 PS2s in GT3. One is a spectator, and the other 6 are players. I don't know too many houses with 7 TVs unless you get friends to bring them over, but I assume the feature works as advertised.
As to 1394 networking being more bandwidth than 100mbit networking that is incorrect. 1394 does have a 400mbit bus but due to all of the overhead involved it can only pump out about 70mbits of actual data per second.
I think you are incorrect; check out some actual numbers for 1394 networking.
USB networking is impossible because each USB port is either a host or device, and there can only be one host on the bus. Since the PS2 is hardwired as a host, you can't connect two PS2s using USB. Also, you'd need a USB A to USB A cable, which doesn't exist (because it would create an invalid bus topology).
I have seen devices that have two device ports and proxy traffic between them to create a USB network, but they're much slower and more expensive than just daisy-chaining with 1394 cables.
There is an extension in the works for USB 2.0 that will allow multiple hosts to network over USB, but by the time it is delivered I suspect 1394 will be pretty entrenched.
Re:USB?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You can't connect two USB hosts without extra hardware. USB is a very top-down protocol: the device tree is always tree-structured, and the host (at the root of the tree) controls everything on the bus. There's no room for two hosts, and the connectors are carefully designed so you can't even physically connect two hosts together. USB-USB communications adaptors have to contain two USB "devices" with some internal, non-USB communication channel between them.
Firewire is more like a network. It's a little like a switched ethernet made only out of switches and crossover cables, running STP... Or not... I don't know as much about Firewire as I do about USB.
Of course, you can get USB-Ethernet adaptors and hook the PS2 into your home LAN that way if you want.
If I could do that, then I could also use an iPod with Linux, right? but the reason the Apple iPod MP3 Player doesnt work (well, the 1st one anyway) is that Linux's FireWire support isn't very much evolved yet. If I had time I would find out how Darwin does it and start trying to get Linux to go the same way.
Except you can get a USB ethernet adaptor (I have one) therefore you can connect USB to USB you just have to insert an ethernet adaptor on both sides.
Re:USB?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
One is a spectator, and the other 6 are players.
You're both right.
Re:USB?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Sorry to contradict you, but there are USB A-A cables. I saw some at a local computer shop earlier this week. Just because something has to be host or device doesn't mean it can't be either at various times, and if you think about all the USB hubs built into keyboards and monitors, etc., you'll see they almost always have only A connections.
wouldn't that be more likely to have Linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
The PS2 has been out a lot longer, Had a Linux based development kit, has had a Linux port out in Japan for a while now, oh, and it isn't controlled by a corporation that considers Linux the "number 1 threat".
Sony has been on the Linux bandwagon with the PS2 for a while. Remember they ported this themselves, it's not a hack.
300$ for the console, 150$ for the {Linux 0$, Keyboard 10$, Mouse $7.50, and a 40? gig harddrive $35.00, 100mbit nic $6.25}
Then add in your extra controller and memory card.
Is the harddrive USB? I don't think firewire is gona be much better. I'd just build a new computer with a Geforce 3 in it.
Rich kids and their toys....
l8r
I forgot something,
Its only got 32 Megabytes of ram right?
whatever...
What about linking non-free sources?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Did anyone notice several pieces of Playstation hardware being mentioned in the/var/log/dmesg they gave? Specifically a "PlayStation 2 SMAP(Ethernet)" and a "Graphics Synthesizer"?
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
I'm not suggesting anything; I'm seriously asking a question.
Re:What about linking non-free sources?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
do drivers running on a GPL system have to be GPLed?
I though it had an exception for OS compents?
Maybe I'm wrong?
Re:What about linking non-free sources?
by
standards
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· Score: 2
If the code is not released, AND it makes intimate use of GPL'd software, then it is in violation.
If the code is released under the GPL, -or- if it doesn't make intimate use of GPL'd software, then it is not in violation.
Re:What about linking non-free sources?
by
cgleba
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· Score: 1
very interesting point. ..I wonder if Sony has made their mod sources available. . . .
Review contents - site /.'ed
by
michael.creasy
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· Score: 5, Interesting
A Trolltech employee once said he wouldn't consider Linux a success until his mother was running it. I don't think the Mom Test is necessarily a fair one, but I get his point: When Linux penetrates the average user's home or office, it will have passed a significant milestone. Well until Linux is ready to beat out Microsoft in the desktop, where else can Linux be a useful alternative operating enviornment for the user who is not an expert? The answer is simple - on embedded devices. So you can imagine how cool it is that Sony finally got on the CLUE bus and decided to offer a Linux Kit to the world for its Playstation 2 console unit. Previously it was only available in beta form, for japanese models. The official announcement came via cnn, you can read the article by clicking here. So what does this mean for your typical console gamer or linux enthusiast exactly? In a nutshell it means your Video Game console will also be a valid bonafied NC/AC (Network Computer/Appliance Computer) unit.
The kit consists of:
DVD-ROM containing a Linux Release specifically designed by Sony to boot the PS2
40 GByte Hard Drive
10Base-T/100 Base-TX Ethernet Interface
USB Keyboard
USB Mouse
VGA AV Connector/w HD 15 plus Stereo Audio
PS2 Linux Kit
The DVD that contains linux will ship with many packages you've grown up with linux like:
Linux Kernel
XFree86 (which means practically every single GUI application you can run from a desktop linux machine)
gcc
glibc
XFree86 on PS2
Here are a couple more images of linux running a ps2. On your left is Xscreensaver (not sure which one) and on your right is "gv" running inside WindowMaker.
I didn't list the versions of these packages because simply put, nobody but sony knows what they will decide on at release time. But expect the packages to be up-to-date. Below is the output of dmesg from the Linux Kit running off a japanese version of the playstation 2. How cool is that..
---- begin snippet from/var/log/dmesg ----
Loading R5900 MMU routines.
CPU revision is: 00002e14
Primary instruction cache 16kb, linesize 64 bytes
Primary data cache 8kb, linesize 64 bytes
Branch Prediction : on
Double Issue : on
Linux version 2.2.1 (master@linux) (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)) #94 Thu Apr 19 12:13:01 JST 2001
no initrd found
Console: colour dummy device 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 392.40 BogoMIPS
Estimated CPU clock: 294.240 MHz
Memory: 30724k/32760k available (1216k kernel code, 752k data)
Checking for 'wait' instruction... unavailable.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PlayStation 2 SIF BIOS: 0200
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0 for Linux NET4.0.
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
Linux IP multicast router 0.06 plus PIM-SM
Starting kswapd v 1.5
PlayStation 2 device support: GIF, VIF, GS, VU, IPU, SPR
Graphics Synthesizer revision: 00005508
Console: switching to colour PlayStation 2 Graphics Synthesizer 80x28
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Real Time Clock Driver v1.09
rtc: Digital UNIX epoch (1952) detected
usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs
usb.c: registered new driver hub
usb.c: registered new driver usb_mouse
usb.c: registered new driver keyboard
usb-ohci.c: USB OHCI at membase 0x1f801600, IRQ 42
usb-ohci.c: GrowLocalMem 64K bytes
usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 1
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
RAM disk driver initialized: 1 RAM disks of 10240K size
loop: registered device at major 7
PlayStation 2 IDE DMA driver
hda: ST340823A, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0xb4000040-0xb4000047,0xb400005c on irq 41
hda: ST340823A, 38166MB w/1024kB Cache, CHS=4865/255/63, (U)DMA
LVM version 0.8i by Heinz Mauelshagen (02/10/1999)
lvm -- Driver successfully initialized
scsi : 0 hosts.
scsi : detected total.
Partition check:
hda: hda1 hda2
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
Freeing unused kernel memory: 48k freed
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 2
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 3
keybdev.c: Adding keyboard: input0
input0: USB HIDBP keyboard
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 4
input1: USB HIDBP mouse
PlayStation 2 Sound driver
Adding Swap: 136516k swap-space (priority -1)
eth0: MAC address 00:04:1f:ff:fa:bc
eth0: Auto-negotiation complete. 100Mbps Full duplex mode.
PlayStation 2 SMAP(Ethernet) device driver is loaded.
---- end snippet from/var/log/dmesg ----
Now with all this one has to think of what you can't do with a ps2 running linux. Well a couple things actually. Don't expect you can pop in any of your self-made CD's into it. This isn't an OSI issue as much as it is a hardware-level one. The Playstation2's CD-ROM drive is unable to read normal data CD-ROMs. Special Playstation2-CDs can be created so that PCs can read them, but not vice versa, simliar to the GD-ROMs for the Dreamcast that can't be created on a CD-R.
Another common question is how will Linux boot on the Playstation2? All the software in the world, regardless if it's runnable object code or source code with the most advanced compiler, is worthless if it can't be loaded into memory on the target machine and made to execute on the CPU. The perfect Linux system for the Playstation2 wouldn't make any sense at all, if it couldn't be booted.
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Linux will likely not boot directly off a self-made CD-ROM, nor from the optional harddrive unit, since no technical details about the port are currently known except a couple rumors, I'm going to speculate here and list some of the possibilities:
depend on the boot loader (like LILO or grub) stored on a memory card, similar to the DVD player driver updates they distributed early on
require a CD/DVD-ROM sold by Sony as an "authentication" mechanism
require some special hardware so it could be booted from an external source (think of disk-less machines with root over NFS)
only boot from the "official" CD that Sony sells. eg. Custom kernels unsupported. (The freedom to compile a custom kernel and freely boot it is very important. I honestly hope that Sony makes a decision which would be acceptable by the community as well as not risk their business model)
In anycase, any "boot loader" would most likely be proprietary closed-source. We just have to accept this. The BIOS of any common PC that boots the operating system is proprietary, too.
In short, I bought a Sony Playstation 2 unit with no intention of running any OS off it. I purchased it simply because its the coolest console video game unit I've ever seen and the game developement for it will be long-standing. The fact it also acts as a DVD player was a plus for sure. But when they tossed up the idea of throwing Linux on it, obviously because Microsoft's Xbox is going to bridge the gap between PC/console, I see endless possibilities now. Keep in mind this linux kit isn't a 'developers-only' package. This is going to be the interface that every ps2 user who wants to get online or treat his ps2 like a PC, will be using. Alot of wincentric folks are going to see linux for the first time, in all its glory and I wouldn't be suprised if some people will forever associate linux as "that video game OS." Any attention is better than none:-)
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
290MHz R5900. Is this in any way related to SGI's R5000 -- ie. is it fully MIPS IV compliant and does it accelerate multiply-adds on 32-bit floats?
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
JabberWokky
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· Score: 2
I got in... just tried again, and it's dead. The link to CNN was mentioned... I think it's more informative than the review, but it dosen't seem to be on CNN's scitech page (although there's a Video Game review there).
Anyway, the link is: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/10/24/linux.ps2.idg/
Take this in remembrance of me.
--
Evan "the sleep deprived"
-- "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
lightware
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· Score: 1
In short, Sony may be the company that finally makes Linux on the desktop a reality.
If that's what you're saying, I agree. And I think it's definitely cool.
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
bobaferret
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· Score: 1
My mother has been runing Linux as her home desktop for about 2 years now. KDE, StarOffice and Netscape are all she really uses. She likes it so much that she converted the library that she runs to Linux. And now the entire Institution is switching. And all this in Medellin,Colombia.
I think the Mom test, is a very fair one. I Never get frantic calls anymore or viruses.
just my.01 (adjusted for quality)
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
dasunt
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· Score: 5, Insightful
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Those who don't know their video game legal history are doomed to make stupid comments about it, it seems. In the US, its legal to reverse engineer booting protocols for game consoles, even up to, and including the point, of the console displaying "Licensed Playstation Game", or anything to that effect, as long as it isn't shown that there is a way to make a bootable cartredge/CD that doesn't display that message. I believe the case that determined this was one of the Nintendo-era consoles, the SMS or Genesis, maybe (been a long time since I looked at the cases).
Reverse engineering a console can save a company millions of dollars in licensing fees. There have been several notable legal battles that have determined how far a company can go to make compatible games.
A CD doesn't hide its data well. Even assuming encryption on most of the CD, its probably a relatively simple task to tell where the PS2 is reading from the CD at boot. Moreso, for the information on the CD to be useful, it has to be decrypted somewhere in the PS2 itself. Its very crackable.
Just my (educated) $.02
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
Cyberfox
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Greetings,
Quick note: Genesis was Sega, and the first case in question that I know of was either the NES or SNES, in which EA decided that they had enough of the crap from Nintendo, and released their own games... and were promptly sued. They won, eventually.
That was before the DMCA.
Don't bet on the same legal protections you had in the past, unfortunately. This isn't random bitching about the DMCA, this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that the DMCA targets. It'd be nice if Nintendo took EA (a classic reverse-engineering shop) or someone to court over it, via the DMCA, and the reverse engineering shop won, but I wouldn't place money on that battle these days.
As for believing that all boot processes can be faked, that's just not true for the end user. You often must modify the hardware in order to boot your own creations. The end user, for example, to this day STILL can't burn CD-ROM's that are immediately bootable on UNMODIFIED Playstations (used as an example because of the age of the platform). Sure, if you've got the right high-end specific hardware, you can do it. The vast general populace can't, and that includes the vast majority of developers.
As for the decryption crack, all it needs to do is a physical verification of a non-writable portion of the disk before boot, and *poof* you cannot make CD's without very high end equipment. It's not an encryption issue, it's an access-control issue. Most Playstation CD's aren't even encrypted, the data is raw on the disk. (Playing just the Final Fantasy cut scene movies on my PC is fun!) The disk, however, has physical protection that prevents you playing a copy of it, UNLESS you've modified your Playstation to not need that physical protection.
You won't be able to burn a CD or DVD in a consumer burner that will boot on a PS2, unless you've modified your PS2. To the best of my knowledge, the PS2 mods currently available are all still 'unstable', or only allow you to be in one mode (Japanese, American) at a time. That may have changed.
In summary, be careful what comments you call 'stupid'. The boot process IS the crown jewel, the protection enforced IS valuable to the companies, and Sony will NOT give it away. Even if they did, I would still wager that you and I couldn't build media that would boot. Last but not least, legal protections offered in the past may not still be in place, due to the DMCA explicitly outlawing them.
-- Cyberfox!
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed
by
AntiTuX
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· Score: 2, Informative
I've played with one of the ps2 Development tools, they're actually quite interisting. The problem lies in the fact that the ps2 only has 32 megs of ram. That's not a helluvalot, which makes the box kinda useless for anything other than just hacking around. I don't know if you can buy extra ram, or just make shitloads of swapspace for the thing, but it's still one cool hack.
Heheheheh, thats a nice idea. Set up a 100-node beowulf cluster and then have SETI@Home run on it. It sounds like a good idea.... come on, wjay cant we all just play GTA3:)
Anyone got a mirror?
by
danaris
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· Score: 1, Informative
Looks like the site is slashdotted already; anyone got a mirror they want/.ed real fast? I want this: I have a PS2, and would love to get my hands on a Linux distro that runs on it.
By the way, does anyone know if other distros (eg XDarwin) could be ported to PS2, now that this is here?
Re:Anyone got a mirror?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Why? For a collector's item, or do you imagine this is useful?
Re:Anyone got a mirror?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
What do *you* think?
Come on now, really.
Damn, I just bought an XBox, too!!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Damn, I just bought an XBox, too!!
Re:Damn, I just bought an XBox, too!!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Stupid Microsoft whore.
This is really cool
by
alsta
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· Score: 5, Interesting
And to the people out there thinking that this is stupid, I have but one thing to say. Linux being able to run on such a vast multitude of platforms and different architectures should indeed bear testimony to a truly portable and well designed operating system. It's not about why, but how.
On a more on topic note, I wonder what kind of benefits this would provide to the people with mod chips in their PS2s. Could it possibly put the knowledge about how the PS2 works out in the public domain? And if so, did Sony think about this?
Oh the possibilities... Check out Flight Gear (http://www.flightgear.org) and wonder if that could be made to favorably run on a PS2/Linux machine. GNU PS2 games... Mmmm. And foremost, could this allow for developers to make PS2/Linux a better gaming platform than XBox/WinXB[sic]?
-- Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
But Microsoft released their XP Embedded.... Surely this could mean that you could have XP running on the X-box, PS2, Gamecube, etc...
Maybe that's going to be the new strategy for market dominance. Why build the X-box when you could just port your OS to the PS3?
This post was intended as a joke and not a market strategy. Any duplication or interpretation of this transmission by Mr. Gates or his subsidiary holdings (including all programmers souls) is in direct violation of the DMCA and will be pursued as such!
No, it won't let developers make PS2/Linux a better gaming platform. To do that, they would have an extra API/software layer between the game and the hardware, which would slow things down.
XBox can run Linux too, and it's much faster and more powerful. Not only that, but there's a great gaming API already on it - DirectX.
Should have thought that comment through a little more:D
I was under the impression that DirectX was a Win32 thing and wasn't implemented in hardware. In the case of Linux on PS2, there is the DirectFB (http://www.directfb.org) project for framebuffers and perhaps coupled with the SDL of Loki (http://www.lokisoft.com/development) and do something really cool? I've heard that SDL is a really good implementation of a rendering API and it is all Open Source.
-- Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
Re:This is really cool
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
> Oh the possibilities... Check out Flight Gear
> (http://www.flightgear.org)
Nuh-uh.
FlightGear needs OpenGL - there is no OpenGL port for PS-2.
Re:This is really cool
by
drinkypoo
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· Score: 2, Informative
I was under the impression that DirectX was a Win32 thing and wasn't implemented in hardware.
DirectX is a collection of APIs. One of them, Direct3D, can more or less be done in hardware; At least for nvidia cards, most direct3d drivers only have to map D3D functions to identical functions in hardware on the card, which helped put nvidia's TNT card at the head of the Direct3D performance line, and continues through the GeForce line. In fact, it seems that nVidia is leading the direct3d featureset, and not the other way around.
-- "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:This is really cool
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Running Linux on a PS2 is a big deal - mainly because PS2 game developers were (are?) using gcc
and developent tools provided by Cygnus.
Re:This is really cool
by
SethJohnson
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· Score: 2
I agree with you, Alsta. This is really cool.
should indeed bear testimony to a truly portable and well designed operating system.
I'm not entirely sure that the fact linux is available on a bunch of different hardware platforms is due solely to it's design and portability. It could be, but there are other factors that prohibit many proprietary OS's from getting ported.
If the owner of the OS doesn't see a financial incentive to dedicate programmers to the task of porting to XYZ hardware, it's unlikely to happen. Remember, NT used to be available on the PPC platform until it was realized that the market for NT servers was heading X86.
If the owner of a proprietary platform is looking for an OS for a boondoggle project, it can be cheaper in the long run to use a non-proprietary OS rather than get into a huge agreement with some OS vendor that's going to take a chunk of the boondoggle's profits in licensing fees.
Linux has armies of developers willing to dedicate jillions of hours of work towards some technical challenge just to 'do it' whereas BeOS, Mac OS (save for Darwin), and Windows have no open source developers working to port them.
So what I'm saying is that because Linux is all over the hardware map doesn't mean it is necessarily more portable or better designed. That may actually be the case. But if you're speaking relative to other operating systems, you've got to admit that they've got some non-design-related hobbles affecting their portability.
Some other poster said that Xbox has linux and it's more powerful, etc. etc. That's interesting. I'd like to see some info on that. I had assumed that Gates had demanded that all kinds of hardware-level encryption / proprietary protocols were built into the thing to prevent third parties from releasing unlicensed devices / software for the thing (not to mention a repeat of the eyeopener catastrophe).
Check out the full system, including Sony's PS2 Flatscreen monitor here. Damn, it's really slick.
Anyone also notice how smart of a move this is for R&D at Sony? They just sit back, sell units, and wait for someone to code/port the perfect office suit/browser/etc that fully integrates the PS2 into the home office, and then they sell more units! I'd say this puts them at least a step ahead of Microsoft.
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
That would be very dumb, actually. Their goal is to sell few consoles but many games. They lose money on each console sale.
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I have one of those flat screen monitors on my desk as it's the exact same as the LCD on the desktop VAIO's with black plastic instead of gray. I must tell you it's one of the WORST displays I've ever used. Flickery, uneven backlight, so on and so on... yuck.
and wait for someone to code/port the perfect office suit/browser/etc that fully integrates the PS2 into the home office
If you have a PS2 in your "home office," I doubt much real work gets done. (In addition, if you need a PS2 for your office suite, I doubt you have a "home office.")
I really, really doubt this is targeted towards anyone but Joe Hacker, who also bought a Net Yaroze for the PS1 for some random/cool game hacking (which is what I plan to do with it.)
Its great I guess, would be better if they were making profit off the hardware.
--
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I would imagine the average Linux user would buy games too, maybe more than average. We tend to be gamers...
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
> Anyone also notice how smart of a move this
> is for R&D at Sony? They just sit back, sell
> units, and wait for someone to code/port
> the perfect office suit/browser/etc that
> fully integrates the PS2 into the home office,
> and then they sell more units!
It's a little debatable. PS-2 (like all other game consoles made in the last 10 years) sells at a LOSS. That loss is made up and turned into a profit by Sony taking a license fee for every game sold.
Sony doesn't want to sell consoles to people who'll only use it for office work, email, web browsing, etc. Every time they sell a PS-2 to someone who doesn't buy at least a handful of games, they lose money!
I think this is a brave move - and far from certain to be profitable for them.
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
considering they make money on software and lose money on hardware, I am not sure how smart it is;-)
Gord is a nut, and is little more than a Sony apologist. His math doesn't add up. If a PSX sold for the equivalent of $500USD in Japan when the exchange rate was 80:1 yen:dollar, and Sony was selling it for $299 in the US when the yen was 110:1, that means that the PSX was still going for the equivalent of $363USD in Japan. Now, assuming that in Japan Sony was selling at a break-even price point because apparently the Japanese have more expendable income (and well they should, if his numbers on Japanese minimum wage are correct, which I doubt), then Sony was still taking a $64USD hit per PSX sold in the States. And that's not the only math that doesn't work right. It would also be nice of Gord would cite where some of his numbers come from. He asserts that Sony makes $6/game on licensing revenue for the PS2, which seems exceedingly low to me. Anyway, several sources I trust more than Gord (and like Gord, I won't bother citing them as a) this was a year ago, and so I'm not going to bother digging up the articles, and b) like anybody that listens to Gord would care anyway) stated last year during the PS2 launch that a bundling ratio of somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-8 games per PS2 was necessary for Sony to break even (or fewer games and more accessories, which are often-times Sony first-party accessories, and thus make Sony more cash). They weren't doing nearly that well.
You're right that the Linux kit can be sold for whatever Sony wishes, and you'd better believe they're going to try to make a healthy profit off of them (they're low-demand items, so the prices have to be higher to allow them to continue to be made).
Re:Pictures
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Osty, go look up the numbers in Google. This was the first site I found:
I wasn't questioning his numbers on the prices for the Playstation, Japanese and American (or Canadian, as he seems to be). My point was that his numbers don't add up. 80 yen to the dollar at roughly $500 USD is close to 39,800. But 110 yen to the dollar at the same 39800 yen makes for $363USD, which is a bit more than $299 USD. I'm sure Gord is a great guy and all, and smart, but he should stick to what he knows -- renting and selling games. Speculating on the business of creating and selling (in the sense that the manufacturer sells to retailers, not retailers to customers) hardware in the video game industry is apparently an area in which he has little experience, unless he happened to work for the business unit of Sega or Sony or similar at some point in the recent past. And it wouldn't hurt if his numerical examples would add up properly.
Well... The really cool thing is if people write very cool games using this. Linux is absolutely a cool development platform. I wonder when people will start writing games using the Linux kit.
And linux will gain some cool games too if professional companies write games using this and decide to port it to linux as well (heck, it's only a recompile away)
Another contender are the scener groups that make demos. Imagine watching demo's on your PS/2, wouldn't that be cool?
I was going to ignore the "all consoles sell at a loss" threads but I have to speak up:
I am not in the industry, nor do I have concrete sources available, so if I'm wrong, prove it and I'll apologise
Consoles sell at a loss when new. Over time, efficiencies of scale and market prices for components bring the price per unit below the selling point. You don't honestly think PSones still cost Sony $300 to make do you?
With 20 million PS2s in the world and what, three plants cranking them out, I'd be surprised if Sony wasn't pocketing at least 25 bucks off each system - maybe $50.
GTRacer
- mmmmmm...Linux....
-- Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
You're not gonna run games on top of Linux and expect them to run well on a
PS2, are you? Leave the PS2 games to the PS2 game developers.
Anyway, if Sony could make a deal with AOL and somehow get a decent Word
Processor going under Linux, this thing has a shot at competing with the
eventual XBox home computer add-on. What add-on you ask? Just
wait...
> You're not gonna run games on top of Linux and expect them to run well on a PS2, are you? Leave the PS2 games to the PS2 game developers.
And why the hell not? If you can make a bootable CD that just boots linux on the PS2 (maybe disguised through a boot screen, easily possible through the framebuffer stuff) and starts a very cool game, what's wrong with that? We have enough toolkits (SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL et al), so why the hell not? I know this was the subject of a slashdot frontpage post once (can't remember when that was, it was a while back though)
Oh, about the word processor, one could port OpenOffice to the PS2/Linux setup and we wouldn't need Sony to make a deal with the evil AOL. X already runs on it. Or what about KDE? KOffice is also very decent (I do most of my worprocessing with KWord. I've had a few niggles, but nothing that really irks me). We have a lot of things ready to go for this.
Just because you can run a Linux game on a PS2 doesn't mean you should. That is, unless you don't care about performance...
Oh yeah, OpenOffice and KOffice are burning up the sales charts at CompUSA. People love them. Look at how many business are switching to non-MS Word solutions.
Oops...Sorry, I forgot to use sarcasm tags for that last paragraph.
Their images won't load for me, something is screwed up with their javascript. But here are direct links to the linux images... you might want to turn off javascript first.
There is one question here left unanswered; what's the retail markup in Japan, and what is it here? If they're very different, then the retail prices will have nothing to do with how much profit Sony makes on a sale, only how much the retailer makes.
You'd be surprised because you're probably an idiot. The PS2 was the most costly console ever developed. Sony will be paying off that investment for years, not to speak of taking a loss on every console until 2003 at the earliest.
-- --
You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Anyone also notice how smart of a move this is for R&D at Sony? They just sit back, sell units, and wait for someone to code/port the perfect office suit/browser/etc that fully integrates the PS2 into the home office, and then they sell more units! I'd say this puts them at least a step ahead of Microsoft.
Or rather, a step behind the GNU. Sony only made Linux available on the PS2 because they had ported it to the PS2 for use on development kits, therefore they had to make their modifications available to the public, according to the GNU.
Perhaps we're talking about two different amounts. I wasn't including dev costs, nor advertising. Just manufacturing costs per unit.
I doubt that current PS2s cost $300. And what they've sunk into development comes back in the form of the insanely-priced PSTool SDKs and the foundation for GSCube (multiprocessor workstation) and PS3.
Even the factories they've built in Japan and China to meet demand can be used for cranking out other products with some retooling.
And are you sure PS2 was the costliest to develop? What about Xbox? And I don't mean the.5 billion advert budget...
GTRacer
- Loves gaming
-- Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
At $500 in Japan, Sony was probably making a reasonable profit. So, even all things being equal, it's quite likely that selling at $299 in the US after the fall of the yen was still not selling at a loss. More importantly, component costs had likely come down significantly between the Japanese and US releases, giving Sony even more room to adjust prices for the US market.
The development costs of the PS2 may have been high, but in terms of actual cost of putting the thing together, I doubt it's a lot more than a good consumer DVD player at this point. I would bet that Sony is now making a reasonable profit on every unit sold, although one can't prove it either way.
IMPORTANT - THE LINUX GAY CONSPIRACY - PLEASE READ
by
propstoalldeadhomiez
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· Score: 0, Insightful
It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed
of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from
hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.
What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden
messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken
advocates:
Linus Torvalds is an
anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the
first initial.
Richard M. Stallman,
spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement'
is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
Alan Cox is barely an
anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it
unnerves me.
I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual propaganda diatribe The Cathedral
and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't
need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor
little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram
for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show
you that he is indeed queer.
Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond
is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail, which is obviously
sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those
not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one
sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it
appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good
Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'
As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually
quoted on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the
following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any
circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional
wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says
plainly.
And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this
tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a
flaming homoslut!
Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney
ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although
an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already
confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual
perversion of corrupting the
innocence of young children. To quote from the article linked:
'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the
bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is
that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'
Is this why you were touching your penis in the cinema, Jon? And
letting the other boys touch it too?
We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's
resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few
who aren't aware of the list of homosexual
terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who
gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his
urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexuallover blows firmly down the straw to
inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the
dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their
postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and
manipulative journalistic agenda.
Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.
In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the
most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The
Slackware distro is named after the
'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes.
Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference
to the homosexual practice of anal fisting.
The Mandrake product is run by a
group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for
the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark
amen and ram naked, which is what they do.
Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like
'Disco,' which is where homosexuals preyed
on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, an anagram of in a bed,
which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we
sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe
their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male
penis, glistening with pre-cum.
But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy
term, again found in the secret homosexual
'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual
practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a
crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer
overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the
frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight
young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.
And Red Hat is secret homo slang for the tip of a penis that is soaked in blood from
a freshly violated underage ringpiece.
The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For
example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration,
which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland.
'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and
gay, and need to mount each other
automatically.
The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.'
These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main
one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even
say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts
faggotry is not optional but a way of life.
More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love
`man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who
are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda)
should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their
frequent recourse to a man.
Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For
example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent
heterosexual Windows users know what
this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the
voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!
Even the title 'Slashdot'
originally referred to a homosexual
practice. Slashdot of course refers
to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are
those super-zealous homosexuals who take
this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the
site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/.
The editors of Slashdot also have
homosexual names: 'Hemos' is obvious in
itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is
'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang
for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement . (The best form
of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special
'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of
penis discharge) toppings. And
to make it even worse, Slashdot runs
on Apache!
The Apache server, whose use
among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual activity -- as everyone knows,
popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it
is for him that this gay program is named.
And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world --
patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even
after its rupture by a session of fisting.
To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description
of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS is for hermaphrodites and
disabled 'stumpers.'
FEEDBACK
What worries me is how much you know about what gay people
do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good
example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person
obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something
as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I
think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward,
Slashdot
Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the
misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the
computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't
you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul
document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable
degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major
animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to
shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo-calypse which threatens to
engulf our planet.
You must work for the government. Trying to post the most
obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something,
due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my
fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that
nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming
it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as
the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another
man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated
by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual child molesting Linux advocacy.
Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!
you really should post this logged in. i wish i could
remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus,
Slashdot
Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall
only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement
is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of
freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm,
enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina to the
tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk,
don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am
the unknown liberator.
ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward,
Slashdot
We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they
are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for
re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society.
This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of
Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson causes
them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism.
Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I
understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum.
I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're
interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are
the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay
$1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h,
Slashdot
Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is
riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being
able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux
pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given
enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 sucks major cock and isn't worth the
money. Intellivision forever!
dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now
that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black
stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda
masquerading as the future of computing, NT is used by people who think nothing
better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see
a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them.
Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church. Clearly, the only
god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian
Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local
pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to
salvation.
Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour.
Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by
a Black Man. Now fuck off
you racist donkey felcher.
And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is
just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something
all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the
trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could
hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee,
Slashdot
Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of
ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her
neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl (standing for Pansies
Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl
Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'
One scary thing about Perl is that it
contains hidden homosexual messages. Take
the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough,
doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to
each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl
Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's
programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so
closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of
'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual
queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters
together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by
passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This
is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'
And PHP stands for Perverted
Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?
Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you
will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in
terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase,
Slashdot
Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual Linux Advocates have been probing
Uranus for years.
That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his
wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this
community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward,
Slashdot
*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for
your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the
Good Lord's work, but it is
encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.
However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on
such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the
'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in
intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling
canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters
have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and
wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake
of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual
intercourse -- their favourite kind.)
In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties,
(Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein
they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to
four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge
their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the
rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the
'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.'
(i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many
Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.
Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality!
-- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message
up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect
your precious Karma in Metamoderation. Only then can we
break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any
wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???
If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it
will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join
with us in our battle for freedom!
It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. --
Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity that is Linux, in order
that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It
is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire
brush of enlightenment.
As with any great open-source project, you need someone
asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to
be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time
someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the
truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,'
as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to
suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.
I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy
hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth
reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read
it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10
seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop
Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine,
frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember:
Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that
Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns
can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and
eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For
concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward,
Slashdot
What the fuck?
I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must
say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to
squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos tend to be full of. Thank you
again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
Well bugger me!
ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage
from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot
Fuck right off!
IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD , which is an acronym for 'Huge
Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so
it has been released into the Public
Domain. You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic
crypto-fascists came out with the GPL (Gay
Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see
who's got the biggest feces-encrusted cock. I
would have put this up on Freshmeat, but that name is
known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.
Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me,
because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the
homosexual practice of holding the base of
the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build
up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made
into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of
ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later.
Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by
the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.
Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy
biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward,
Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward,
Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward,
Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward,
Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions
are welcome.
Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPOby 'Bring BackATV'
as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we
could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links).
Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?
Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed.
Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax
described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more
fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot
baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.
One question... why?
by
Black+Pete
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I am seriously not trying to troll. This is a real question that I'd like to know the answer to. I'm not bashing Linux (hell, I have a Linux box which I love playing with). I know I'll get flamed anyways.. but here goes...
Why would I want a Linux PS2? When playing games on the PS2, I just put a CD/DVD in, boot up, and play. Why should the average Joe Customer care what OS it's running?
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
I'd really appreciate it if anyone could enlighten me on this point?
Largely, I think, because they can. Also, because it can allow a vast number of games to be brought to the PS2 (thus increasing Sony's market penetration) simply by recompiling for the new platform. I'm sure things will take a little porting, but there's so much stuff--even commercial stuff--already there, that Sony really can't lose with this one.
I've heard a lot of stuff about linux, but this is a new one; Linux has a VAST amount of games?
Re:One question... why?
by
Randy+Rathbun
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I want it so I can be watching TV and check my email without having to get off my ass and walk the 20 steps to the computer room. Plus, how often are you sitting at the TV and think to yourself, "I really need to remember to look this up on the web when I get a chance.." then go off and forget about it. Hell, I do it all the time.
PS2 has to compete with the XBox (x86, _should_ not be hard to "port" linux to and the Cube, they need to make it look like people are buying the box, so developers will be more willing to develop games.
From a geek (and a 'wanna-be geek') POV it's very worthwhile, you get a Linux box, and something to play games on (be honest now, Linux does not (yet) have the games.
Even more so for the wanna-be, as you will not have to scream and shout at XF86Config/x86configure.sh/ vi/etc/x[tab] to get X to work, as, well only on graphics card.;)
Re:One question... why?
by
dark_panda
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The system is going to need some kind of OS when it comes time for Sony to launch their Internet platform for it. Why not use something that's already available with tons of applications rather than re-writing everything? When it comes time for people to connect to the Internet through their PS2 (which Sony has always envisioned as an all-on-one-DVD/games/networkable box), they're already going to have good browsers, mail programes, office suites, hell, even ftp and web servers.
No use recreating the wheel. It's not just cool, it's somewhat practical for them.
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
There are a lot of people who would buy this just for playing around. There are a lot of people who enjoy computing for it's own sake, the people who make companies like Abit profitable.
Well... if "Joe Customer" implies your core ps2 buyer, then I don't think that ps2linux is that compelling(yet). If Sony dumbs it down to WebTV level then I think it might appeal to the mass market (which is the direction I thought they were headed, as they were demoing AOL on the ps2.. don't know if that's still a plan).
However, I for one am intrigued with the idea of a low-cost ps2 game development platform. At the very least, you can write SDL games for it. Admittedly a lot of my interest is simply curiosity -- Dreamcast Linux is even more impractical but I'm still going to install it.. just to say I did.
Re:One question... why?
by
VFVTHUNTER
·
· Score: 5, Funny
Price of a PS2: $300
Price of a PS2 Linux Kit: $200
Not having to get up from the TV to get porn off the net: Priceless
Re:One question... why?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
>Price of a PS2 Linux Kit: $200
>Not having to get up from the TV to get porn off the net: Priceless
For the rest of the non-geek population, that is what cable is for...
Re:One question... why?
by
Chainsaw76
·
· Score: 0
I know what I'd use it for. Set top BOX to use exclusively as a Music player. I have my music collection (40gb MP3) accessable via WEB interface on my intranet. This would allow me to have a node in another room with out buying extra hardware.
-Jason
Re:One question... why?
by
Junks+Jerzey
·
· Score: 2
The system is going to need some kind of OS when it comes time for Sony to launch their Internet platform for it.
I mainly want Linux on my PS2 so I can play VCD's and DivX stuff. Also, I can use it to be an mp3 jukebox since it has a 40gig HD. I have a linux box hooked up to the TV to handle this task currently, but it's noisy, huge and ugly, so the PS2 + linux is a much better option for me.
-- Don't make me kick you in the head and watch you bleed!
Re:One question... why?
by
digitalmuse
·
· Score: 1
different people are liable to answer this one in different ways. Some deep linux folks are going to approach this for the challenge. Other people are going to explore the world of embedded systems and game console magic. Some folks like myself are going to try and get another tool into the house. I'm looking forward to being able to turn on a 'device' in my TV cabinet and play MP3's over the network, pop-up a browser, maybe even let someone hop onto their web-mail.
This is the niche that I would like to fill with a thin-client solution.
And with a good implementation of Linux on PS2, I may have that thin-client.
But the beauty of this is that everyone else out there is going to be porting MAME, AIM, Mozilla, Gnutella, and kitchen_sink.8(alpha) onto this platform.
Imagine a thousand users, with a thousand consoles, each with their own killer-app. THAT is what I forsee with this. PS2 is not the new business desktop, it isn't necessarily what you want to give Grandma to e-mail the grandkids. It is a tool that has great possibilites for a broad-range of people who are interested in playing with this platform. I would urge people to make this happen. Buy the kit, learn how it works, create stand-alone (DiskJuggler, Nero, or ISO) images that the more technically inclined can produce and distribute to their non-geek friends.
I've got a fresh batch of cookies waiting for the first person to point me to a workable image that I can use to let my friend play all his old SuperNintendo games (he still has the game cartridges in the attic, so don't whine about copyright!) on his shiny PS2.
-- "If I wanted your input on my pet project, I'd stick my hand up your ass and use you like a sock-puppet." - Muse
Because we are getting to the point where the technology in all of the individual
components of a home entertainment center (DVD player, CD player, video game console, VCR, TiVo, etc.) are all run by an inexpensive "computer" using a general purpose CPU.
If you ask "Joe Sixpack" what he uses his home computer for, he will
most likely answer:
Surfing the Internet
Playing Games
Word Processing
E-mail
Chat
So why buy a home computer? The modern video game console has all the
power it needs to run a web browser and Word processor. What's holding it
back is the lack of software and storage space.
Palm bought BeOS. Sony and Palm are working very closely in the handheld arena as the Clie is the best handheld running the current PalmOS. It wouldn't be a stretch to have Sony license the Palm version of BeOS for their internet enabled PS console in exchange for further development of the Clie handheld and supporting PalmOS.
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason.
As for the average Joe Customer wanting a Linux PS2 Kit..of course they have no need for it. The average Joe Customer isn't even a Linux user. You may as well ask "What does the average Joe Customer want Linux on a PC for?" also. The fact that it's a PS2 doesn't matter. It's obviously being sold to geeks and developers.
--
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Re:One question... why?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Because Microsoft (Sonys new competitor with the XBOX) owns all the software that everyone (well the vast majority of people) use. By using that software they would be helping a competitor!
Re:One question... why?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Because the price is cheaper than some computers, maybe.
Re:One question... why?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Your comment is neither interesting nor is it worthy of 5 points. The solution to your lame problem is obvious: move the TV into the computer room or move the computer into the TV room. If you move everything so it is within arms reach you can reach it all without requiring a PS2-based GNU/Linux system.
I still think a lot of this porting is done because it can be done. Not because it will be used in the real world by people in non-contrived situations.
I^m doing this right now on my Dreamcast. You can
pick one up for about $50 now. Trying to find a cheap
NIC (BBA) is a problem however.
There are a couple of Browsers availabl for the DC.
-- --
Re:One question... why?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I am not going to take the time now to do the passowrd thing. Everyone seems to have forgotten about the input ports, joystick, Humm both analog and digital.
I don't think average joe customers care about linux at all. Even my hippie friends who want to save the world don't really care about linux too much. Average joe customer also don't care about *BSD on the dreamcast. Average joe customer fear computers and live with windows. They also hate math ( but love to correct your spelling and grammer ). This is for the hobbiest.
You're right, average joe customers don't care what OS they're running. Many geeks do. This is for the geeks that would to fiddle some more with hardware that they already own. It has a hard drive, ethernet, firewire, USB and the glorious VGA adapter.
Some people want it becuase they can get it. Some people want it because they hate MicroSoft. Others will use it for yet another internet terminal (YAIT, or in GNU speak: YAIT is not a terminal).
I want it because I want to support linux. If more people realize that they don't need to use windows ALL the time (just some of the time), I am happy. This is from vent up anger from being a sysadmin.
I also want it so I can play my games (love MGS2) and hack it too. I could also wait for some hacker to port linux to the XBOX but I don't have an XBOX and have less reasons to buy one. All the games I want to play are either already on the PS2 or will be made for my PC, which will always be faster becuase by default my personality requires it that way.
Those are some of the thoughts I have on why to get one. Basically, because you can. I think that the average joe user won't care. I don't see them wanting to pay $200 more for the ethernet and harddrive to turn the PS2 into a computer. But one day the PS2 will by default come with the harddrive and ethernet. Then they still won't care about the OS, but they buy the feature equipe one for $300. they'll have the option of paying $40 to AOL who'll give them access online and a CD/DVD that runs there software on linux. They'll skip the MS-tax. Maybe Sony will do the same thing and make the PS2 apart of there digital hub. This makes the PS2 versitle and plays games too!
For now, it's just for the geeks who wants it. Just like how computers use to be. Just for the people willing to fork over a load of money for interesting hardware. It could be totally useless and worthless when i get it, but that also happen with my palm.
--
bah. start over
Re:One question... why?
by
dark_panda
·
· Score: 1
And how many applications are available for this proprietary multitasking OS versus the number of applications available for Linux and UNIX-like systems?
J
You mean besides....
by
moniker_21
·
· Score: 5, Informative
"...finally I will have a legit reason to buy a PS2."
And many more... You just can't beat the PS2 right now simply because it has so many amazing games available for it. Sorry it's offtopic, but it's true.
-- I posted to/. and all I got was this stupid sig
Re:You mean besides....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You used PS2 and great games in the same sentence. HA!
Re:You mean besides....
by
hyyx
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
MODERATORS, how is this comment insightful? Informative maybe (if even), but the only insight I see here is to promote ebgames.com. Come on, damn...
Re:You mean besides....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I will grant you that the Playstation 2 has the most games for it, and as long as it's been out, it has managed to even create a nice list of top-notchers.
But "Great Game Selection" is hardly a trait of the Playstation. In fact, I have to count Playstation 1 games as the greatest games for the Playstation 2, since most of the Playstation 2 games are complete and total crap. The vast majority. An overwhelming number. Damned near all. It's the rule, not the exception. Er, you get the point. I think you linked to the best two, and three of the games you linked to aren't even that great, and they're not exclusive to the PS2 anyway. And Metal Gear Solid 2 won't be exclusive for much longer.
So, I think whoever said Linux was a great reason to buy a PS2 hit it right on the money. Linux IS a great reason to buy a PS2. You'll have a decent little pile of hardware, you'll have a pretty good OS, you'll have a pretty large selection of games, and you'll have a slick little black machine the looks pretty when not in use.
" And Metal Gear Solid 2 won't be exclusive for much longer. "
Last I heard Konami were scrapping their metal gear solid x (xbox) plans, but then I also heard that there would be no dc shenmue 2 non-Japanese and we got that so...
Last I heard Konami were scrapping their metal gear solid x (xbox) plans, but then I also heard that there would be no dc shenmue 2 non-Japanese and we got that so...
The English-language version of Shenmue 2 for Dreamcast is available, right now, for European PAL systems. American DCs can play it with the Utopia or DC-X bootloaders, or modchips.
Otherwise, the general point of what you're saying is true. Right now, "cross-platform" means, "will be available for Playstation 2 and at least one other system." I don't know of anything cross-platform that's worth mentioning that will be released for both 'Cube and xbox, but not PS2.
OTOH, there are few non-Squaresoft PS2 exclusives that make me really want a PS2. For the kind of games I enjoy playing, in its current state, the PS2 is a glorified PSOne that can also play PS2 games and DVDs and run Linux. When more quality RPGs and 2-D fighters surface on the system, and improved hardware becomes bundled as standard, this platform will be much more attractive. Otherwise, the PSOne is the RPG king, while the combo of Japanese Sega Saturn, SNK NeoGeo, and Sega Dreamcast rule supreme for 2-D fighters (now I just gotta get a JAMMA board system, and I'm all set).
Found this link awhile ago.. it appears to be for an upcoming Divx/media player for the PS2. Too bad it won't load completely.
http://www.tuuk.demon.co.uk/
The ultimate gaming machine- Beowulfed Linux PS2's!
Re:Heh.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Somewhat similarly, you can network playstation 2 systems via i.link and have multiple views of games. You can run GT3 with several screens or in wide mode across several systems.
Crippled or no?
by
autopr0n
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
And is anybody going to buy a PS2 to run in console mode?
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Yeah, that's really great and all. But in all serriousness, do you think sony wants eveyone to go out and buy a PS/2 to use as a computer? They make all of their profits from licensing of games. I think it still costs about $400-500 to make a unit. So even if they charge $200 for the PS2, and $200 for the linux kit, they are just breaking even in total (assuming that the extra $200 is absolute profit, which it is very much NOT --it includes a 40Gig drive, and other goodies), or are still very much in the hole. They don't want you to run an ISP off of these, or hack it, or whatever.
Remember the Modchip for the PS1? They didn't like that, and changed the design of in production machines to not be able to accomidate it. The hackers got around it of course, and sony realized that it would cost them far too much to keep up with them. The thing still is, that sony dosen't want you fuckin' with their proprietary equipment. Game companies count on sony to elimate piracy, to increace their profits from making a game, and if sony can't do that, then they have NO PURPOSE!
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Afrosheen
·
· Score: 2, Informative
That's some proprietary RDRAM with throughput in the neighborhood of 3Gb, behind a 300Mhz, 128-bit processor, IIRC. Prolly smoke your Ghz Athlon.
-- illegitimii non ingravare
Re:Crippled or no?
by
mikeee
·
· Score: 3, Informative
RDRAM is well and good, but the fact that that RAM is 100% faster than mine isn't going to matter when it starts swapping, 'cause my RAM is about 1000000% faster than that IDE hard drive. (No, really, it is. Do the math.)
OTOH, my previous PC ran Blackbox tolerably with 28 MB, so maybe...
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
How can you even begin to say that a PS/2 would 'make for a nice server array'.
The only person who would say that, would be a person that would consider running a server farm on linux.
My god, Netra T1's are expensive, BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD. PS/2s are cheap because... THEY ARE CHEAP.
THis is a great processor, but useless without a good compiler. I've heard its no better than a K6-2 right now. Kinda similar to Itanium, great in theory...
On the plus side, when someone does have a really good compiler for it, you only need software to get the true power out of this baby, no more hardware upgrades.
Getting good access to the internal hardware is unlikely.
The reason is that if you want to develop a game for PS2, you have to license a development kit from Sony, which costs a few hundred thousand USD. (I think it's $250K.) That's it. You can't even look at the SDK unless you cough up the cash. My office has a contact at Sony and this is what we found out when we were considering using their platform.
So if we can bypass their SDK and write our games and graphics demos under the PS2 Linux environment without paying the quarter-million fee, Sony loses a big revenue stream.
So while you will be able to write to the X API for graphics, don't expect to have access via Linux to any optimized graphics features the PS2 provides.
As for Firewire, if it's a standard OHCI chip, then you'll be able to use the Linux1394 drivers and edit all the video you can eat. If it's a proprietary Sony interface, then we're stuck with whatever access they decide to release (if anything).
Of course you realize that bandwidth of that sort is more or less worthless for most applications. All that matters is low latency, and that RDRAM probably carries something in the neighborhood of 80~100ns as compared to >10ns latency of modern DRAM.
That and said 300mhz proc has virtually no ability to execute serial instructions(no, 128 bit word size does not make it faster). Without a vectorizing compiler the PS2 has precious little computational power.
So for any non-game tasks, my Athlon 550 is probably a great deal faster.
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Of course, GCC3 still doesn't compile fast code for non-X86 platforms... For MIPS, you want CodeWarrior or MipsPro. For PS2, you want CodeWarrior, if you want high performance.
And exactly how good is gcc at generating Emotion Engine code these days? Does compiled code automatically make use of the vector units where appropriate? (Clue: the answer is 'no'...)
-- ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
The dev kits don't cost $250,000. More like $10,000 I think.
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
It probably wouldn't be a good video editing machine. It only has 16MB of RDRAM or something lame like that.
As for Firewire, if it's a standard OHCI chip, then you'll be able to use the Linux1394 drivers and edit all the video you can eat. If it's a proprietary Sony interface, then we're stuck with whatever access they decide to release (if anything).
As a Linux 1394/DV developer, I am very interested in this exact application. Currently, our video editor Kino typically consumes less than 20MB RAM, so without a WM or GNOME, it is feasible. Unfortunately, from information by a Japanese poster to the linux1394-devel mailing list, the IEEE1394 hardware is proprietary and not OHCI. I wish Sony would contribute drivers because they could attach all sorts of storage devices to the PS2 as well this way.
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Actually, it will be just like any other Linux machine. You'll have GCC, libs, driver support (well, I think the GPU is limitted). As a matter of fact, SDL has already been ported to it, and you can already find
Open Source games for it.
But I personally think the biggest use of this will be for third parties to create internet ready apps for the PS2 (such as web-browsers, e-mail clients, etc.) For example, AOL is already using it as their base for the new PS2 AOL accessory.
I'm hardly an expert, but I'm working daily on a 200 Mhz Pentium with 2 gig of HD and 40 MB of RAM. I run Gnome with IceWM every day, and never have problems.
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You're right. I spent some time working for a game company in Tempe AZ, and we had one of those game dev kits. I just was working on some Lua scripting, so I'm not sure how that part of the development cycle worked, but I do know that many small shops would not even consider ps2 development if they had to spend another quarter million on one of those.
That was precicely the question. He was referring to the OHCI Standard Firewire Interface, and its ability to do things such as video editing. The only thing you refered to was playing a DVD. If its optimized for it correctly, it does not take very much horsepower to do that, look at a consumer-grade $150 DVD player. He was referring to editing, and there is a vast difference in editing video, and simply watching video.
-- Trying is the First Step to Failing --Homer Simpson
Re:Crippled or no?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You're a real dumbass man...read the fucking question before your ego replies to it.
Browser?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
What browser does it use? I know sony made a deal with aol... The article doesn't seem to mention it.
Looks like Sony is trying to upstart m$'s future homestation, any bets till how long it will be till we see an XP package ship for the xbox to counter this? My crystal ball says 2 months at latest.
Re:Any Bets?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Are you nutz? I may be reading you wrong, but are you suggesting that Micro$oft will distribute a Linux CD for the Xbox? I didn't think so.
Re:Any Bets?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
That "Large" 8 gig hard drive Microsft is so boasting about in the XBox is the main reason it will take longer. XP takes up about 2 gigs! And that is just the OS. Then you throw on Office and you hardly have enought room for documents.
Networking?
by
Col_Panic
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Perhaps I have just missed it, but any information on networking this beast? I have heard that the ethernet adapter for the PS2 isn't due out till after the winter shopping season. (Sony has to be kicking themselves over that one, networking is the only thing the Xbox really has over the PS2) Any word on how the box running Linux would use this network adapter?
Re:Networking?
by
ZeroLogic
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I've been using a DLINK USB ethernet adapter w/ Tony Hawk.
You don't HAVE to use the Sony adapter, there are other ones that will work as well.
I just flipped my self-burned CD-R into my $50 Dreamcast, just to reply to this. You can do this today, for about as much money as a PS2 game and a keyboard. Granted, no hard disk, but the idea was to mess with embedded Linux.
Don't miss the point here. Run to "Toys R us", and scoop up the Dreamcast (read the manufacture date through the hole in the back to make sure it was made before Sept. 2000). Go to fivemouse.com and grab the image. Burn it with DiscJuggler, and start playing with embedded Linux tonight!
(read the manufacture date through the hole in the back to make sure it was made before Sept. 2000)
What's wrong with more recent models? Do they include some sort of "anti-hacking" firmware or something?
Re:Dreamcast!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Informative
The newer DC's won't boot CDR's. I gave my original DC to my dad, and I bought a another used one. When I got it home I popped in a burned cdr and it wouldn't boot. I promptly returned it and made sure to check the date this time.
Re:Dreamcast!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
That is what modchips are for. CDR incompatability is part of checking to make sure it's a 'real' Dreamcast Disc. Modchips should come down in price, soon, so anyone stuck with a CDR incompatable DC just has to wait for the modchip to go down from $20 to $5.
I grabbed an October 2000 unit last night for a friend's christmas present and the Linux CD-R worked on it. It might have been one of the last units with the old BIOS, but people have gotten Dec. 2000 units working as well. I believe that if the CD is burned correctly - which the dreamcast.tar.bz2 does - it will work - only some Japanese units cannot boot from CD(-R) at all. (YMMV, just in case...)
Re:Dreamcast!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Recent DCs wont run CDRs. Also, I have no idea what's at fivemouse, but you can also get DC Linux here or other versions from a variety of places.
Personally, I have used it for about a year now, just tinkering really, and it's pretty kewl.
Re:Dreamcast!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
No, don't use DiscJuggler. It's Windows-only and a total piece of garbage. Plenty of CD-writing programs can be used to target the Dreamcast.
Wow... I just thought of something. Does anyone realize what would happen if Sony started pre-loading Linux onto PS2's? Does anyone realize how many users would learn to use (and love) Linux? Consider this - the original Playstation sold close to 100 million units (maybe more?), and the overwhelming majority were sold in latter years of its life.
I'd say this is a fairly likely scenario, actually. Once the price comes down enough, Sony would be smart to start bundling PS2's with harddrives - and so it really wouldn't be a big stretch to throw in the keyboard/mouse combo as well. And if they do that, consumers are going to expect additional functionality. Why pay extra for a harddrive when all it does is store saved games? In comes Linux. By that point, there will already be a browser, a word processor, and a useable GUI developed especially for the PS2. Thus the sub-$300 gaming AND browsing PC becomes a reality - and it runs Linux.
This obviously has everything it needs for a low cost / low power cluster. Can anyone tell me if would make a cost effective rendering cluster (eg, Maya)?
Is this is bad move for Sony?
by
Phoenix823
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· Score: 0, Redundant
Sony (as well as Nintendo and Microsoft) make money by selling software. They all take a hit when it comes to selling the hardware. If Sony just sells more systems and no more games, they lose money and 3rd party developers will note that. From that, I can only assume that there are some serious limitations placed on the hardware. According to the article, you cannot use home-made CD-R's in the system. That seems to limit some of its usefulness and value to anyone looking to use.
Re:Is this is bad move for Sony?
by
kasek
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· Score: 1
With the several flavors of mod chips that are available to allow you to run illegitimate CDs and DVDs on your PS2, how long would it be before you could use your home-made CD-R's along with linux.
The Slashdot effect.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Does anyone else visualise the slashdot effect like a weak lady trying to restrain a firing a machine gun and being thrown around the room as it takes out innocents again and again and again?
But I doubt Linux for the X-Box will ever amount to much. I mean, yeh people ported Linux to the dreamcast, but its not like millions of DC owners out there used it for anything.
PS2 Linux, OTOH, is going to be major. Supported by the company that makes the hardware (and maybe even a marketing campaign if we're lucky), it could end up being major. And in a lot of peoples hands that wouldn't normally go around hacking their videogame hardware.
i dunno.. i think it'd be easier to get it to play all my divx files.. considering it could then use the windows codec through wine or something (similar to how xine does it, I believe.), which would really be nice. A little box that acts as a server, hooks up to a tv, relatively cheap, approximately the same power as my desktop, AND plays my divx files through my network. Mmm. And I can reboot it and play any of those wonderful xbox games. *cough*
Set top boxes ruinning linux
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Yeah, linux-hacker.net has some of those. Its gonna save you about 400 bucks:)
Legit reason?
by
sheetzam
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Wow, this is clearly a definition of legitimate I had not encountered before! Not that I can argue with it, mind you. Now if only my wife were willing to accept that logic....
-- "Actually, I enjoyed this in the same vague, horrible way I enjoyed the A-Team" P. Opus
Re:Legit reason?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Wah! Wah! Wah! I'm a big pussy and I have to ask my wife's permission to spend the money I earn at work while she sits on her ass all day getting fatter and watching Oprah! Please, honey, can I have a quarter to buy some chewing gum? Can I have my balls back when you're finished carrying them around in your purse?
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
Well, Sony is only required to give the source to people who they give/sell the software to. Not everyone in the world. Since this is only in beta, and a few people have it, its a non-issue. When the system goes into wide release, though, it would be a different matter. Presumably Sony would send a CD along with the unit containing any modified source (same as with products like the Tivo)
Are u allowed to modify GPL'ed code so that it can interface to proprietary code legally? basically create modular chunks between GPL'ed code and proprietary code...so the modified source works hand-in-hand with proprietary code...
Clickable link *sigh*
by
autopr0n
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· Score: 1, Troll
It's very simple to do. (<a href="URL">link text</a> in HTML posting mode) and makes everyone's life a little easier. Text links defeat the whole purpose of the web, and if they are to long slashcode inserts spaces into them that keep the page format from getting screwed up (but also break the URLs)
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Re:Clickable link *sigh*
by
JabberWokky
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· Score: 2
if they are to long slashcode inserts spaces into them
Ironically, that's why I *didn't* href the link. I was worried it would break in the tag, which is a pita. You're giving HTML tips to a guy who religiously plants italics and spacing tags throughout his replies... I knew *how*... I chose *not* to. But thanks for the effort, anyway (although when providing helpful tips, a "*sigh*" in the subject is a bit less than polite).
--
Evan "yet a little more sleep deprived"
-- "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Ironically, that's why I *didn't* href the link. I was worried it would break in the tag
I've never seen that happen. Although I have seen lots of plaintext URLs get broken up and need editing in the URL bar, but I've never seen the URL inside a link tag get broken. Anyway, you can do both like I did, and have the Link text be the same as the link, um, link.
I just assumed most people who don't link links are posting in plaintext mode or something. Keep in mind that the combined effort of 100 or 1000 people copy+pasteing a URL is way more then it takes to link a link in a comment.
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Re:Clickable link *sigh*
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Correct. The Slash code is smart enough to break up visible text but leave the links inside your tags intact.
to do text links in mozilla i just select the text and middle-click anywhere on the browser window - so any url selectable in X is easy to use...
Re:Clickable link *sigh*
by
JabberWokky
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· Score: 2
In my experience (and, judging by the number of gripes of "it worked fine when I previewed it!"), the preview is (or was - to be honest, I haven't tried since the last upgrade) very broken. Since it's been broken for quite awhile, through many versions of software, I've kinda given up on it telling me useful info about where it's gonna break URLs.
And really... this entire thread is over three extra clicks of the mouse. Highlight the URL, click the X next to the Location bar, middle click in the empty field, and hit the Go button. Is that so hard (TMMV due to browser and OS)? I doubt I've broken many wrists... and by now, the site is probably not slashdotted anymore, so the original link works.
Really, fellas - I'm all for pedantic arguments, but this is spiraling into lunacy.
--
Evan
-- "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Slashcode doesn't put spaces in the hrefs, only in the text. The spaces are put in to prevent a troll from putting in a really long line which will destroy the formatting of the page (causing you to have to scroll back and forth to read the comments).
-- -no broken link
Re:Clickable link *sigh*
by
GrammarPhone
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· Score: 1
Keep in mind that the combined effort of 100 or 1000 people copy+pasteing a URL is way more then it takes to link a link in a comment.
Keep in mind that the combined effort of 100 or 1000 people correcting you on using "then" when you mean "than" is way more than it takes for you to learn proper grammar and spelling.
I'll let "pasteing" slide this time.
Only in the beginning
by
autopr0n
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Re:Only in the beginning
by
Phil+Wilkins
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· Score: 1
I believe that break-even has been reached on PS2. There was some news reports about PS3 needing to be moved forwards, and this was why PS2 hadn't dropped in price, as they needed to pay of the R&D costs faster than they did with PS1.
Re:One question... why Interesting?
by
GoofyBoy
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· Score: 2
I'm going to buy and set Linux on my PS2 because I'm lazy and have a bad memory?
Its not the comment that upset about, its the fact that someone thought that it was Interesting. Thats really reaching.
-- The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
One of the pictures shows Netscape being run on the PS2. It looks to be 4.7x. Last time I checked netscape was closed source.
How did they get Netscape to run on the PS2 risc "emotion engine" CPU? I assume you could get the source to mozilla and away you go for whatever CPU, but that doesn't look like what is happeneding here. Can someone enlighten me?
Re:netscape in picture?
by
VFVTHUNTER
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· Score: 2
the risc emotion engine blah is a MIPS processor. SGI's are MIPS. Netscape runs on SGI's...
Re:netscape in picture?
by
MrCreosote
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· Score: 1
Of course, they could be running it on a server, and having it displayed under X on the PS2.
-- MrCreosote
Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!
"You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
linux applications on the ps2
by
Afrosheen
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· Score: 1
For anyone who didn't know, AOL made it's client software for the PS2 a long time ago. Once the official broadband adapter + hd hits the streets, guess what? Yeah you can use aol over your phone line/broadband connection on your ps2. This was announced about 4 months ago when AOL made the deal with Sony. I'm not surprised Netscape runs on the ps2 either. A linux port to PS2 is effortless. Mozilla comes next of course.
Also there have been full-mockup pictures of the entire PS2 hardware collection floating around since the summertime. The flatscreen 15" monitor, black keyboard and mouse etc. have been prototyped and available within Sony for months.
I've never seen pricing for the kit, how much is it going to cost?
Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
yerricde
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· Score: 5, Funny
Sony has released its distribution of the GNU/Linux OS for PlayStation 2 in the USA.
17 USC 109(b)(1)(A) prohibits rental of computer software in the United States. Section 109(b)(1)(B), on the other hand, makes an exception for software designed to run on video game consoles. But does the release of PS2 Linux make the PS2 into a "computer" under the law, and thus ineligible for software rental without explicit contracts between each video game publisher and each rental shop?
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
The+Monster
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· Score: 2
17 USC 109 [cornell.edu](b)(1)(A) prohibits rental of computer software in the United States
Then how is the new Orifice XP license legal? Or.NET?
--
[100% ISO 646 Compliant] SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
VFVTHUNTER
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
The PS2 is by default a video game console; since authorities would have to violate the Fourth Amendment just to see if you had installed Linux on it, this point is kind of moot.
Way to think outside of the box tho:)
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
Mr.+Bubbles712
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· Score: 1
I looked around the site, and I couldn't find the difference between Rental and Temporary Licence. The reason that I ask is that if there is a difference between Temporary Licence, (such as what Microsoft is doing with the XP line), and a rental of a program to play games with(such as with all console video games). But then again, IANAL.
Mark
-- Alas, poor clippy, I loath him so.
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
Steve72
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· Score: 1
I saw computer games for rent at blockbuster at one time. Guess it just the classification of the software.
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
Erasmus+Darwin
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· Score: 2
"The reason that I ask is that if there is a difference between
Temporary Licence, (such as what Microsoft is doing with the XP line),
and a rental of a program to play games with(such as with all console
video games)."
I think the easiest way to differentiate the two is who's granting the
temporary use. My guess is that the law is an anti-piracy thing. As
such, it would be rather difficult to claim that Microsoft was
violating Microsoft's copyright. Instead, I think the law's intended
to prevent someone like Blockbuster from renting out Microsoft
software.
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
Icculus
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· Score: 1
If some anonymous tipster told them you were using it for terrorist purposes or you were selling drugs, you'd be out of luck relying on your fourth amendment rights. Hello military tribunal...
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You don't HAVE 4th amendment rights anymore under your current administration.
The Xbox still dosn't have 'online' play, just lan. Which the PS2 can do via firewire.
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Re:Wow
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Considering that Microsoft is a Competitor (Xbox) I don't see as how Sony has any alternative If they want the PS2 to come pre-loaded with browser and e-mail software etc. We're all well aware of what ended up happening to Sega with it's attempts to develop software for the DC. They lost a lot of money for a browser that only works with the built in modem. Sony Isn't stupid, From what I gather the idea is to sell the 'linux' kits first to get linux developers to play around and fix any bugs they come across. IF Xbox is still around they start shipping the PS2 with HD and linux (although they will probably have some kinda onscreen keyboard software instead of shipping a hardware one) people who want the keyboard and mouse will find them readily available. and people who don't want to 'really' learn linux they'll probably be able to run the mp3 player well enough with just a single controller.
PS2
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Does anybody know if I could use this to run my favorite Linus game, Doom. I do have a beowulf cluster of DreamCasts, all running Doom, and I wonder if it would now work on a PS2. I imagine it would work, running this on a beowulf cluster of these things. I don't see why it wouldn't.
Ok I admit that this post isn't up to my usual standards. I'm just very tired, and I had a rough day. I just want to say to all you other beowulf posting LOSERS, you guys can't even make the first cut! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!
Mozilla's Classic theme looks like 4.7
by
yerricde
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· Score: 3, Informative
One of the pictures shows Netscape being run on the PS2. It looks to be 4.7x
If your computer contains a Netscape Communicator 4.x profile when you install Mozilla, Mozilla defaults to the Classic theme, which looks like Netscape Communicator 4.7.
Last time I checked netscape was closed source.
Mozilla is free software licensed under the Mozilla Public License and the GNU { |Lesser} General Public License. Netscape 6.x is mostly MPL/LGPL free software with some minor proprietary things linked in (AIM client, spell checker, etc) but the Mozilla team is working on replacing those.
Re:Mozilla's Classic theme looks like 4.7
by
FunkyChild
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· Score: 2
It's not Mozilla. In this picture, the titlebar clearly has two words and you can just make out it saying "Netscape Communicator". By comparing what's in the photo to a Mozilla running the 'classic' skin, you can see that it's not the same. Not to mention, the throbber isn't a Mozilla lizard icon, but the trademark Netscape 'N'.
So indeed, it is quite puzzling.
Re:Mozilla's Classic theme looks like 4.7
by
Taurine
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· Score: 1
Doesn't this kit include some sort of networking? They could be running Netscape on another machine, with the display exported over X11.
those AVS systesm are a ripoff.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
People get paid by getting people to sign up. Once they do, they're is no reason for them to have compelling content beyond the gateway. Once everyone gets one system, people will move on to another.
Very few people actualy get those things anyway, there's tons and tons of free porn on the net.
Check out the hun or autopr0n and you'll basicaly get all the porn you could ever want.
So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
yerricde
·
· Score: 2
PS2 has to compete with the XBox (x86, _should_ not be hard to "port" linux to)
How are you going to even load Linux on an Xbox console? Xbox (not the more expensive XDK) uses a proprietary bootloader that checks for a digitally signed kernel.
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
man_ls
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· Score: 2
Sony produces PS/2.
Sony produces PS/2 Linux.
Sony digitally signs PS/2 Linux kernel for bootloader.
Problem solved.
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
nutbar
·
· Score: 1
Post talks about Xbox.
Next post talks about PS2.
Everyone gets confused.
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
seann
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· Score: 1
I don't mean to sound like a flambatious anti-microsoft linux using slashdot troll, but:
Microsofts makes the X-Box
Microsoft does not have a very good security record for "Keeping People Out."
I think I've said enough.
-- I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
great Haiku
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Who's to say you can't just flash the BIOS?
Legit reason for PS2?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
A legit reason to buy a PS2 is to play games. Running Linux on one is a novelty that is pretty pointless and a waste of money. How much fun is running Linux on an overpriced, underpowered, closed system?
> Does anyone realize what would happen if Sony started pre-loading Linux onto PS2's? Does anyone realize how many users would learn to use (and love) Linux?
Three geeks? You can already buy a cheap actually upgradeable PC for a couple hundred bucks with a less-ridiculous amount of memory. The usefulness
of a proprietary system is questionable.
-Kevin
Can we use this kit with FFXI / online games??
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Would buying this kit eliminate the need to buy a keyboard/mouse and ethernet interface when online gaming becomes a reality for the PS2??
That would make this whole thing even worth more.. playing TH3, FFXI in your off time and running the greatest OS the rest of the time!
I'll finally put that kvm box to good use!:P
Re:Can we use this kit with FFXI / online games??
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Online is a reality, I play Tony Hawk 3 all the time online. All you need is a USB Ethernet adaptor.
Quake 3 on Linux?
by
Deltan
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Hmmm...
Since the retail Quake 3 for PlayStation 2 sucked bad would it be an outraegous idea to think that maybe Quake 3 for Linux could be run on the PlayStation 2 making everything in the Quake 3 world all happy happy again?
Sorry, but Quake3 will almost certainly _not_ come to linux ps2. I don't even think that the ps2 has OpenGL, something that Quake3 absolutley needs. And if quake3 had poor sales on linux itself, just imagine the sales of a game targeted at a tiny section of linux.
Please don't let your ass speak for you. SGI penned a deal with Sony a long time ago to bring optimized OpenGL to the PS2. Also Sun has a working Java implementation running on PS2. The PS2 lacks nothing your whizbang pc can do.
Re:Wow
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
yeah great fucking idea, except for the fact that sony makes it's money from games and not the console.
Don't expect you can pop in any of your self-made CD's into it. This isn't an OSI issue as much as it is a hardware-level one. The Playstation2's CD-ROM drive is unable to read normal data CD-ROMs.
How does this make sense when the PS2 is capable of reading normal PSX discs? PSX discs are standard CD-ROMs.
It almost makes me ill to read something like this...."Finally I have a legit reason to buy a PS2"...how about those of us that realize there are actually...games to play on the console? Not to mention the fact that it/is/ a console. Will I have a legit reason to buy a leafblower when someone finds a way to put Linux on it? I mean, come on. I run my domain on Linux boxes, and I play games on my PS2...imagine that. I'm sure this will end up being 'flamebait', but most of you need to get a grip on this stuff.
Re:Finally?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
depends on why the leaf blower is running linux and what networking options it offers like headphones connected to your mp3 connection on a server via 802.11g. Would make leaf blowing a whole lot more interesting.
Re:Finally?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
As a long time gamer [mid 80s] on both the PC and many consols I realise that this is the only reason for me to get a Playstation 2. Having owned a ps1 I know that the only good games were ports of PC games [ala Worms] and those didn't even match the quality I found on the PCs. Don't get me wrong now, I still play my old consols [nes thru N64], if I don't own the physical console I play it emmulated. Console games are, gennerally, better programmed, becouse you could not add a patch later. But in recent years the gameplay has just gone down hill.
Only the computer user part of me wants me to get a Playstation 2, and only for the Linux.
Once the price comes down enough, Sony would be smart to start bundling PS2's with harddrives
Nonsense. Console systems have to be robust. They get yanked off of tables, dropped, generally beat up.
Hard drives may be a lot more robust then they once were, but they are not up to dealing with the level of abuse a console system takes.
And since they are already losing money on the consoles, they certainly would not be "smart" to start shipping them with hard drives. It would kill them on returns, warranty repair and the like.
-- Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
Sony makes money on the Console
by
bstadil
·
· Score: 1
This is not quite correct. If you look at the various analysts assessment of the market, they all state that at $299 Sony make money on the console. There is a rumour that they will lower the price in US after Xmas, They have just dropped the proce in UK to 199Pound I believe.
This is the exact reason the XBOX was conceived and released - to counter all of those CPU cycles being "wasted" in game consoles on a non-Wintel platform. I'd bet Microsoft has been terrified for many years that every kid who has a game console actually has a computer, and someone somewhere would make the consoles behave like real computers. XBOX is supposed to beat them to the punch.
It's classic Microsoft strategy.
if { Game_Console == Computer and Game_Console == Pervasive_penetration_into_homes and Game Console != Requires_Windows}
then
{ Game_Console == Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position};
else
{Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
End if;
do
{ Attack_Compeditors_base_market (undercut_price, add_proprietary_tech);
Delflect_Competition_from_Windows(FUD_FUD_FUD, De-comodotize);
}
until {Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
The PS/2 is no C64 - and Microsoft knows it. This has been brewing for some time - you could tell Microsoft felt threatened by all those game consoles that didn't need them (Except Sega, IIRC, and we know what happened to them). So, Microsoft attacked Sony's bread and butter with the XBOX. This is the shot Sony is firing back. This is going to be fun to watch. Heh - I know whose side I'm on - the consumers.
BTW - those of you with Sony VAIOs running Windows should keep tabs on your machine's stability for a while *grin*.
-- "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Microsoft has said they will *NOT* release any keyboards and mice for the X-Box. This is because it is already perceived as essencaly a PC by some consumes. (Because of the microsoft name) So if microsoft responds in kind, they may be doing themselves more harm than good.
That said, I think is a smart move by Sony because wail it is really only for developers and real enthusiasts now, at some point it will enable them to;
Include a new hard-disk when the price drops.
Why not have linux on there, setup with a real simple graphical interface, that your grandmother could use? (tuned for low-rez of corse)
Have word processing, e-mail, webbrousing (ala webtv).
Then Sony can; sell the upgrade with the hard disk, and use this to facilitate their network gaming platform with little work on their part.
This reminds me...
by
tom1974
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
Of Amiga and my old C64 back then. Wonder if it's going to be the same fun, like truly hackabily, or is Sony going to keep the good stuff off limits. Does anyone know if you could boot it off other than its cd-drive?
What the fuck is the point?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Really.. why the hell would you want to run Linux on the fucking PS2?
No, thats not what he's saying at all
by
autopr0n
·
· Score: 1
Read it again, he's sayin that M$ will release a Windows XP CD for the Xbox.
Yeah, this is gonna be just as big a hit as the Coleco Adam, maybe even bigger! After all, who wouldn't want to do a little word processing on his game console?
-- ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Cool! A new kid-tough computer for the kid!
by
The_Dougster
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
This is what I'm thinking. Every kid who wants a computer of their own will beg for one of these units! Until now I have been trying to keep a MacII system running for my step-daughter (10 years old). I could grab up one of these puppies, run a ether cable up to it, and plug her right into my lan. Since I already run Linux on my boxen here it would be a nice easy addition.
These console games are rugged and are designed to take the beating that kids can dish out. And at 392 bogoMIPS that is more than my wife's celeron-266! Think of the savings I'll have by loading that thing up with Linux games rather than having to buy every single stinking piece of software at console game prices!
There was some discussion about Linux running on PS2 at a TFUG meeting last night. Someone asked if NetBSD had been ported to it yet. The only reason Linux beat NetBSD in being the first to run on PS2 was because of the big corporate push. I'm not knocking Linux, it's just that the NetBSD developers have _ALOT_ more experience with porting an OS to different architectures(it has currently been ported to 46!!).
How much is someone willing to bet that NetBSD will beat Linux in being the first OS to run on an XBox?
-- Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Re:NetBSD?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
you do not need to do a port, it is allready
an x86 system (special p3)
All those things you say sound great, however wouldn't the Xbox seem like a more viable platform for such things? Despite the fact that Microsoft will be very against it, what can they do to hackers porting linux to it (if you can call it a "port")..
I'd bet my money on the Xbox being better for server/linux applications, even though it's from Microsoft... I can't wait to see what develops
Despite the fact that Microsoft will be very against it, what can they do to hackers porting Linux to it (if you can call it a "port")
Well, that's the reason it won't be. I mean, there were demo communities around the Dreamcast and N64(using a hacked Hong Kong IDE bridge (Z64), a very sweet device and twice as expensive as the game system. It was intended to be used to pirate games).
The thing is, they never really got 'big' because the companies didn't support them. You had to do all kinds of weird things, or pay out the ass, to the system to get it to work. And most importantly you needed a separate PC to code on.
Sure, someone might get Linux on the Xbox, but it wouldn't be much different then what happened with the DC. Not very big.
With support from Sony, there's a chance for something really interesting to come out of all of this.
There are a few things they could possibly to do limit its ability. The xBox looks for a digitally signed Kernel upon bootup. All they would really have to do is change the digital signiture of the kernel and the bootloader, and it would break any linux releases.
Or better yet, they could make their developers put code in that changes it for them when you first load up a new game.
This does bring about some interesting thoughts though. Sony is making a very bold move here by doing our work for us...kinda makes you wonder what really is in it for them.
-- Trying is the First Step to Failing --Homer Simpson
I knew all of my patience would hold out
by
ChozSun
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· Score: 1
Actually I am a cheapskate and was hoping that the release of XBox and GameCube would force the prices lower (so much for that) but if the this PS2 sells for less than $500, this baby will be mine.
A lot of it could work, but there is no way in hell you are gonna fit those NeoGeo games in 32 MB or RAM. Sad. A PS2 would fit nicely in an arcade cabinet. Oh well, there's always PacMan.
This is no beta. We've been tricked!
by
Nemith
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· Score: 5, Informative
After reading this article it dawned on me that this isn't a beta of the US version of linux for the PS2. It is just a english site on the Japan version.
The X11 screen shot on that site is exactly the same as on the Japan site. Furthermore the kit showing is also right off the Japaneese site. Check out this dmesg on the site. Look familiar?!?. Ya I though so.
From my understanding the US version will have an internal harddrive/network card to fit in that big hole in the back of the PS2.
Now I am a little dissapointed. This casts no forshadow to release of the US version and we still have to wait. Why this even made Slashdot I am not sure, but dont be fooled with this trickery.
. ..or you could be imginative and think of the IBM name. .."Personal System 2". . .
every time I hear PS2, PS/2 pops into my head and I have to re-think. ..it's odd how IBM has hard-wired my brain. . .
OpenGL?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Insightful
A lot of people are slavering at the possibility of porting a bunch of Linux games onto the PS-2, perhaps getting a cheaper/better Quake for PS-2 that way.
However, we need to be realistic about this. None of those things are possible until/unless there is a good hardware-accellerated OpenGL port for the beast.
As far as I can tell, there isn't such a thing in existance - and whilst we can certainly port Mesa onto it, we won't get hardware accelleration and it'll run S-L-O-W.
Even with a good OpenGL port, you still wouldn't see stellar performance because the PS-2's 3D processor isn't optimised for running OpenGL - it takes a lot of wierd programming tricks to get speed out of the PS-2 and without free access to the hardware details, there is little or no chance of getting good 3D games running on it.
Of course, all of this changes if Sony announce an OpenGL implementation or release the hardware details - but I'm not holding my breath.
Re:OpenGL?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
This is a very good question...sure hope we end up with an OpenGL port soon. There's a LOT of good uses for something like this.
The japanese release comes with digital copies of the same hardware & library documentation professional developers get.
Why does everyone seem to think they're going to cripple the graphics side of this release?
It's not like they could, even if they wanted too...
...incidentally, developers can't burn discs that boot in normal PS2's either. We have to buy special units for that, you can tell them because they have TEST written in the PS2 font on the top. No region lock out on them either...
Then how is the new Orifice XP license legal? Or.NET?
Because you sign a contract with Microsoft (or click your signature onto an on-screen EULA, but legal experts currently dispute enforceability of such schemes). It's illegal for the purchaser to rent copies of computer software not designed for a game console, but it's perfectly OK for the copyprivilege owner to do so, which is why I mentioned that Sony could potentially make contracts with video store owners. However, this opens up another can of worms relating to potential discriminatory policies about rental licensing; these issues already pop up in Japan, where consumers' first sale rights are much weaker.
Um, take another look at dmesg
by
jmorris42
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· Score: 5, Informative
Notice anything missing from the dmesg output?
Yup, just the hard drive! No access to the closed hardware in the CD/DVD player. No CD/MP3/DVD/VCD/Divx;) players for us until some outsiders reverse engineer things and distribute a loadable module.
Bummer. I'd have bought one in an instant as a play everything console.
Anybody know if it has one or two PC Card slots? It needs one for the HDD/ethernet but since ethenet to my TV would be a bitch I'd prefer to slam a Orinoco into it.
-- Democrat delenda est
Re:Um, take another look at dmesg
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Can you not hook up an external CD/CDRW/DVD drive to the hard drive interface (assuming they are using RAW IDE drives at some point) ?
Re:Um, take another look at dmesg
by
spacefrog
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· Score: 1
>> Anybody know if it has one or two PC Card
>> slots? It needs one for the HDD/ethernet but
>> since ethenet to my TV would be a bitch I'd
>> prefer to slam a Orinoco into it.
The PS2 does not have any PC Card slots.
It does, however, have both a USB and an IEEE1394/Firewire/i.link/whatever port.
Although not the fastest pups in the world (because they are USB), USB ethernet adapters are a dime a dozen. I know x86 Linux supports some of these.
I believe USB 802.11 adapters are available as well, but I don't know what the driver situation is like.
1394 hard disk interface/enclosures are also readily available and affordable. You can purchase them with drives pre-installed or buy an empty box and populate it yourself with an UDMA drive.
Re:Um, take another look at dmesg
by
PygmySurfer
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· Score: 1
> The PS2 does not have any PC Card slots.
Actually, the Japanese PS2 had PC Card slots... this was changed for the US version, however (They removed the PC Card slots to add the expansion bay for the upcoming hdd/network adapter).
Re:Um, take another look at dmesg
by
child_of_mercy
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· Score: 2
hello?
u can already play your dvd's and cd's natively.
-- 'There is a Light that never goes out.'
Re:Um, take another look at dmesg
by
Cryptnotic
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· Score: 1
They switched the design for the later Japanese units too. All the ones after the first few model numbers have the big slot in the back instead of the PC Card slot.
They actually released two versions of the hard drive/ethernet option (also for the Linux kit) in Japan, one for the PC Card PS2's (a PC Card with a cable to an external box) and one for the internal slot PS2's.
Cryptnotic
-- My other first post is car post.
post nov 20000 anti-piracy Dreamcast workaround
by
mastagee
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· Score: 5, Informative
The bioses in US dreamcasts manufactured after November 2000 will not boot audio/data multi-session cds. This was done because major piracy groups (Echelon mainly) were using this as their primary self-booting game format. The workaround is to convert the audio/data cd to a data/data cd.
Give it a rest
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Better gettting excited over games than this silly war. We are trying to get a few guys that did a bad thing. Its not the end of the world
When this is released how long could it possibly be before we are able to play divx movies on our TV through the PS2. No more packing the computer between rooms with the other alternative being watching them on a little 17" monitor. Can't wait to see what happens!
I can see it now.
Hey buddy. Wanna play MGS2 tonight?
You can't? Why?
Hackers!?!
Did what to your PS2?
You were running what?
Whatever!
"click"
But they were encoded as normal CDs mostly. They just had an extra country code and bad blocks, and it was up to the hardware of the Playstation to explicitly check for these things. The modchip just feeds a false positive for these checks. If people swapped discs with the door sensor propped "closed" just after the code and blocks were verified but before boot data was loaded, then no modchip is necessary, but makes things much more convenient. So if it can load PS1 cds, it can *physically* load normal CD-ROMS, just as it can play normal music CDs... I would imagine a modified driver could likely bypass these checks, and the possibility of this happening makes them try to keep the CD/DVD drivers as far away from the hacking community as possible.
-- XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:Remember the Mod chip?
by
nosferatu1001
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· Score: 1
I didn't need a mod chip for my PS, as i had the original MK1...would play anything at all, and had the much better heatsink so no overheating problem either..
ah, i remember PS thumb from too much Raiden....
Potential of Linux
by
j3110
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Since linux practically runs on every D@#$ thing in the world, is free, has a metric ton of developer tools... I have only one question...
Why doesn't anyone ship a cd that boots linux,X11 4.01, and then runs their 3D game? If a game developer did this would they not be able to run it on Mac,PC(3D accel required), PS2(special ver.), XBOX(sure that's next if not already), Toaster Oven, etc. Seems like if a game developer really wanted to hit the entire market, they could use BSD or Linux pretty easily... I don't know how the GPL plays with shipping a binary linux kernel with a commercial product, but BSD license is all peachy. Even GPL, can you not just ship the source code on the same CD for everything but your game. (Linux distro's do this, so I don't see why game developers can't.) I don't see what I'm missing. Seems to me a larger market base for games + more games for linux is a win-win situation for the Linux community and the game publishers. Is the compiler for those processors just not optimized? Is there no OpenGL X11 support for the video of the PS2? Is Sony intentionally not wanting to compete with computers? Any fine game developers/legal experts/people generally smarter than me want to point out the flaw in my thinking? (Assuming it's flawed because someone else would have already jumped the idea if it was feasible. Then again, it could be at least a new goal for linux. I know a lot of gamers that would enjoy the power of linux. I know linux wasn't developed for realtime processes, but 2.4 is decent. I'm sure a game dev would tweak the scheduler.)
-- Karma Clown
Re:Potential of Linux
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
you are overlooking the world famous problem that consoles have solved. Differences in hardware. One person's machine has different hardware from another's and thus require different drivers, many of which don't exist on linux. Of those that exist, most only exist for x86.. that means mac users are screwed. Also similarly ati hardware isn
t like nvidia hardware which isn't like matrox hardware etc..
Why doesn't anyone ship a cd that boots linux,X11 4.01, and then runs their 3D game?
I stopped buying Windows games very soon after I started using Linux, because I really don't like rebooting my system into a different OS just to play a game--it's at least not something I want to pay money for. I also like to easily switch back and forth between a game I'm playing and my E-mail, someone I'm chatting with, etc., and I like to be doing those things with the software I like, the software I usually use--Linux software.
I imagine that Windows users probably feel the same way, and wouldn't appreciate booting into an unfamiliar OS, and separating themselves from the software they're used to, just to play a game. The people who would benefit from your idea are probably outnumbered by the Windows users who wouldn't buy such a game, thus making the idea a little uneconomical for the developers.
I haven't tried my PS2 as a DVD player since my roommate owns a regular DVD player, but I have heard that the PS2 has some problems playing movies and whatnot.
With the Linux boot, though, could you get a better Linux player making movies easier to watch. And ooh, an interface to use the PS2 remote in Linux so I can have remote-controlled use of an ogg player.
-- Tired of sitting at that karma cap? Start a flame war today!
See just how low you can go!
I think the reports of problems have been greatly exagerrated. I've played many DVDs on my PS2 without issue..
-- XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:DVD player
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I bought the sony dvd remote and it came with dvd drivers that made the dvd much nicer. It sucks that it took up 2mb of my 8mb memory card but the slow motion before was choppy and its smooth now for instance.
I will wait till more information is available
by
Da+J+Rob
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· Score: 2, Insightful
OK, so you put in the Linux boot disk... then what happens? Does LILO boot the linux kernel that you have stored on the PS2 hardrive? Or does it boot a kernel that resides on the CD.... my guess is one on the CD. Now Playstation 2's will not play any type of burned media.... CD or DVD. (Unless you mod your playstation2 and get a GameShark boot disk). So what happens when I want to patch the kernel? Or edit my startup scripts? Or just flat change my distro? I'm sure Suse or Redhat will have something before too long....
Also if the kernel is on the boot CD, I just cant eject that CD and put in a MP3/DivX/DVD disk in it either.... meaning I'm going to have to pull any content that I want from those types of media from another source on my network. Granted... there is a certain amount of geekish pride in rigging it this way, but its definitely not conveinent. Who (outside of slashdot readers) has ethernet strung to thier entertainment centers?
- J Rob
Re:I will wait till more information is available
by
ZaMoose
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· Score: 2
PS2 not able to read burned CDs? Bollocks, I say! I burn CDs all the time and then test out their success by playing a few tracks on my PS2. Not a problem.
Kernel probably gets loaded into memory anyways, so you could eject the boot media and pop something else in.
What really excites me about this though is the concept of doing an NFS mount back to my PC in my home office and playing back my music collection through my stereo (which is hooked up to the PS2 via an optical cable). Now that's what I call slick.
-- I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
Re:I will wait till more information is available
by
KwamiMatrix
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· Score: 1
To answer your question, PS2 Linux is first booted from the PS2 DVD-Rom. It is then set up on the PS2 HDD, and the last step is to copy the PS2 boot files to a PS2 memory card to make a bootable memory card. For more info, visit this thread at Gamedev.net that I had with someone.
Gamedev
Also, visit this for detailed PS2 Linux info. You will want to translate it, unless you understand japanese. Japanese PS2 Linux
Maybe I do not fully understand the technology in the PS2 correctly... but doesn't it actually have TWO 300mhz cpu's? I believe one of them has a bus directly to the graphics core...
(Okay, technically it has 3 cpu's... if you consider the I/O Controller is actually a psx core... and I do believe it is supposed to be somewhat programmable... but I could be wrong hehehe)
Looking at the dmsg log.. it seems only one of the cpu's are being initialized.
> Maybe I do not fully understand the technology in the PS2 correctly... but doesn't it actually have TWO 300mhz cpu's? I believe one of them has a bus directly to the graphics core...
The PS2 has the main CPU (The emotion engine), a FPU, as well as two Vector Units (VU0 and VU1). The vector units are what makes it difficult to program for the PS2.. But, they also increase the functionality of the PS2..
For example, for SSX: Tricky, EA used one of the VUs for DTS decoding, for multi channel surround sound (The PS2 only does Dolby Digital/DTS for DVDs, not for actual games). Developers can also use the VUs strictly for graphics, or anything else really.
Three geeks?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Three that will use it once, and never use linux on it again, going back to their GTA3 and masturbating furiously.
Eek! Just saw the price of these things...
by
The_Dougster
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
Forget it. Never mind. No way is this thing worth $475. Ok, I get a new Dual AthalonMP, wife gets the Dual PII, kid gets the Celeron-266
-- Clickety Click...
You must be confused.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
xp embedded is to Windows XP professional what Windows CE was to Windows 98.
Re:You must be confused.
by
RogrWilco
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· Score: 1
No, I was merely making humor...
Linux on Xbox ain't gonna happen without HW mods
by
yerricde
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· Score: 2, Informative
Of course it's only a matter of time before some clever people do port Linux to XBox.
Ain't gonna happen. Microsoft controls the BIOS, and the Xbox will run only signed, encrypted code. See my previous comment. Of course, you could theoretically throw in a mod-chip, but Microsoft would use its vast re$ources to sue any mod-chip maker out of existence.
Why not just buy a laptop?
by
HanzoSan
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· Score: 2
If you want a portible computer a laptop is far more powerful, plays games just as well if not better, and best yet, Linux was DESIGNED for it unlike the mutilated PS2 Linux.
I think this is a waste of time, just like the Dreamcast linux, If developers want to do something useful, Improve linux for the computer, work on the kernel, work on KDE, Gnome, do something which matters to everyone and not something which matters to a few thousand people LITERALLY.
-- If you use Linux, please help development ofAutopac
Re:Why not just buy a laptop?
by
mirwor
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· Score: 1
I want one of these NOW. Anyone know where I can get one?
-- Search first, ask questions later.
Mom...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
...I finally know what I want for X-mas...
What about video quality on a regular TV?
by
efgarcia
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· Score: 1
It looks like all the screen shots we are seeing coming from a PS2 connected to a monitor. Are there any from a PS2 running Linux while connected to a regular, not HD or HD ready, TV? I was just wondering how good it looks for those of us without an RCA MM52110.
Thanks,
Eric Garcia
Re:This is no beta. We've been tricked!
by
Hal-9001
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· Score: 3, Informative
Well, there is this article (hyperlink from the original posted link, where Shin'ichi Okamoto, senior vice president and chief technical officer of Sony Computer Entertainment, said that although he couldn't provide a U.S. release date for the PS2 Linux Kit yet, "we'll be able to announce it soon."
The Linux Kit is designed exclusively for the Japanese model of "PS2", SCPH-10000,SCPH-15000 and SCPH-18000. Since these models are for domestic use in Japan, the Linux Kit is only available in Japan.
At this point, there is no plan to release the Linux Kit for non-Japanese model of "PS2".
Overseas delivery is not available.
I for one hope this if for real, because for me, like for timothy, this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back and convinces me to purchase a PS2.
-- "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
Thats what Howard asked me...
by
The_Dougster
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
Re: WHAT IS THIS
We were helping a buddy clean up his garage and he came across a small toolbox. He opened it up and pulled out some small gizmo with an electric plug and a handle and a little round head. He said "What is this?" To which I replied "Fuck if I know." Then he pulled out this weird crescent shaped knife with a T-shaped handle and said "how about this?" I said "Some kind of knife?"
That whole thing still gives me nightmares. Was our buddy a maniac? Were they cops? What the hell was that weird shit doing in his garage?
Oh well.
-- Clickety Click...
Re:This is no beta. We've been tricked!
by
Hal-9001
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· Score: 1
Check out this dmesg [ps2linux.com] on the site. Look familiar?!?. Ya I though so.
Not surprising, since he leads that excerpt with "Below is the output of dmesg from the Linux Kit running off a japanese version of the playstation 2"...:-p
-- "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
Re: what should I do now
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Does the trolltech employee have any
breakfast cereal recommendations??
Cause we are all waiting with baited
breath I can tell you. I really can't
wait until he tells me when Linux is a
success.:P
DVD playing under PS2 Linux
by
Koitsu
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· Score: 1
Does this mean that we'll see a region-free DVD player for PS2 Linux?:)
Re:DVD playing under PS2 Linux
by
updatelee
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· Score: 1
install a mod chip, either neo4 now or messiah when it comes out. this will allow region free dvd, direct boot cdr (psx and ps2) and easy single swap dvdr (ps2). this will also allow you to write apps for the ps2 and burn them on cdr/dvdr and boot em, dont worry about sony copyprotection anymore:)
Chris Lee
lee@mediawaveonline.com
That's a silly question...
by
ebbomega
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· Score: 1
Games designed SPECIFICALLY for PS2 are supposed to work better on a computer that's not running a dedicated gaming platform? On a laptop, no less?
Honestly. What have you been smoking and where can I get some?
I'd rather pay a couple hundred dollars on a PS2 and Linux kit than drop 3k on a state-of-the-art laptop that is NOT going to have any new software specifically for its own design two years down the road.
It's not like anybody's going to buy a PS2 simply for the Linux patch, but it DEFINATELY makes it a far more attractive option than its Microsoft counterpart by one-upping the X-box's sole credit towards its design: Being a PC and a gaming console rolled into one.
And I'm just gonna leave Gamecube _alone_.
-- Karma: Non-Heinous
binary compabitibility
by
leowhockseng
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· Score: 1
It is not an IA32 cpu. Most programes need to be recomplied. Note that it come with gcc.
You know Everquest is owned by Sony, would not take them much to tell them to port to Linux so that they can have it run on the PS2, so that all these Play Station users can play graphical MMORPG's.
This could be a potential Gold Mine for Sony.
Just a thought,
Matt
PS2 beats the Xbox and GameCube
by
claygate
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· Score: 1
I think that if Sony could put their marketing behind this machine, one which runs email and web browsing plus star office as a free office suite, they will destroy the sub $1000 computer market. Why would anyone buy another desktop at $1000 if this machine does it better? For kids the games on the PS2 are easier to get up and running. For the student you just want to be able to type and save your papers, for the college kid, gran turismo AND pr0n on the same machine. For parents... I guess online banking and DVDs, you get the picture. THIS is what home computers really are. The custom made $1500 machines we build are our hotrods. These are your Honda Civics.
Re:PS2 beats the Xbox and GameCube
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
If I buy a sub-$1000 PC (celeron, duron) with an ATX mobo, I'm about $300 away from "upgrading" to a P3/P4 or AthlonXP mobo.
Since the PS2 can now run Linux, could it be used as a "copy machine" for movies; set it up to just copy down that DVD and encode it, thus pissing off the RIAA et al.
I'm just as excited about this as all of you are, I've been waiting for this for a while, it'll be a cool new toy to play with. I just hope some suit doesn't ruin my fun:(.
Re:DivX Movies?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I think the problem with this reasoning is most divx players I've seen for linux use win32 codecs. These are based on x86, which means your average mac user was sol. Good for us x86 users though, but i believe the ps2 will suffer the same problem.
Actually, as of late a number of non-x86 only solutions are available. OpenDivX and ffmpeg for two are cross-platform, and have been used along with cross-platform mp3 codecs to provide playback of DivX avis on more platforms. Try the CVS version of avifile-0.6, or mplayer. I haven't had a chance to try, but the included aviplay or another program (i.e. PythonTheater) should work on non-x86 for some avis...
-- XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Not puzzling at all.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
AOL owns Netscape. Sony sees AOL as the 'killer app' for PS2 Linux. It's only a small logical jump to seeing Netscape pop up on the Playstation 2, particularly since it's going to be a key component in their online strategy alongside AOL in the console war against the next generation of Microsoft's Xbox.
Getting ready to hit the streets?????
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
HOw does that = hits the streets?
That is like saying Samsung is about to dump 500,000 alpha play stations for $125 each....
Actually, this all sort of makes sense, and looks very promising. Sony wisely alpha tests its PS2 Linux in Japan, where most of the engineering is done. After major developmental bugs are worked out, and exploring the potential Sony licenses the TiVo technology (also Linux based) for the next seven years.
Now granted, just like most huge companies the PS2 division is likely far removed from the TiVo Sony folks. But the 40HDD is just begging for PVR functionality and you can bet there are some Japanese engineers that are already chomping at the bit.
I give it three months before someone has their PS2 hacked with TiVo functionality.
A PS2 that could emulate older machines would be superb. Mame would be the prime candidate, but there are others too - notably the Spectrum, C64 and Amiga and perhaps also the ST.
Has anyone who has used one of these kits tried running any emulators on it?
Cheers,
Ian
(Anyone for Asteroids Deluxe followed by a game of Paradroid 90 followed by Dark Cloud?)
Another Site bites the dust.
Dum dum dum.
Another site bites the dust.
Heh Slashdotted..
Anyway this will be a cool idea only if developers take advantage of it.. otherwise its pretty useless.
Sony should release something like it did the for the PSOne (Yaroze) so that people can create their own games and with Linux it would allow for much more.
Cool.
Ask Slashdot! Can i use it in the old world?
by
Lispy
·
· Score: 1
Ok, after Japan theres an US Version..great!
But i live in germany...my question is:
Does anyone know if this totally cool thing will ship in germany at all and if, when?
If not, then can i just order the US-Version and play german discs or is there something like an area code or incompatible connectors i should be aware of??
Thanks for any help...id really LOVE to use the PS2 but i wont buy it before i can use it with the Linuxkit....
Lispy
Re:Ask Slashdot! Can i use it in the old world?
by
child_of_mercy
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· Score: 2
I am ready to buy, already have a PS2 that works great - ok - I confess, I am not too good at many games so I cheat, I use the Gameshark ( "Gameshark" should have discounts for ARRP members:) ). We already had a dedicated DVD player so we don't use the PS2 too much for watching DVDs .
BTW the new Sony remote includes a software update that greatly improves the dvd player capabilities in the PS2 ( the older version was region selectable, not sure if the new version is the same). The only problem I had was hooking up the PS2 with the dolby digital sound, my DD receiver only had one optical input, and the dedicated dvd player was already selected becasue it had a better remote. However,recently, I learned that radio Shack has a cheap 4 way adapter for digital optical input. I already ordered extra digital cable from Gameshark ( cheaper there) and ready to go with the PS2 fully intrigated into our home entertainment system with digital sound. I am looking forward to MGS2 and others using 5.1 sound.
Linux is the icing on the cake, already happy with the PS2! Two of my favorites in one package Linux and the PS2.
Ok, this is cool, this is too cool. I was just thinking the other day that I wished some ingenous hacker would make a ps2 port. I never expected sony to condone such an action. Biggest question, are they gonna develop an XFree86 DRI 3d module for it? If not, no biggy, if so, ohhh my god, my playstation all of a sudden does better than my desktop. That's kinda disconcerting really.
dosn't work for split links
by
autopr0n
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· Score: 1
that won't help if the link is split up by slash's anti-anti-format features.
-- autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
PS2 with a real OS
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
This really reminds me of the Amiga. As some of you know the Amiga was originally going to be just a video games console. Then someone thought he could make money on it as a computer instead and added a keyboard and mouse as well as adjusting the OS. It turned out to be a very nice environment. I get the exact same feeling when I think about a PS2 with Linux and a keyboard.
Sony: "Linux? yeah, whatever, just buy a PS2"
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
So, Tim tell me why can't you use linux with your existing PCs?
Why is it so goddamn hard to save your money and not buy anything else but food and shelter?
Why not? It is obvious.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
why not?
Playing games is not all people want to do?
Do you have that little vision that you can't
see how a platform like the PS2 will be a great
LINUX box?
If you have that little vision, then by all means spend too much for your workstation.
My guess is that you're dumbfounded ness is
because you are a SHILL for microsuck
Glad you found a legit reason
by
biglig2
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· Score: 2
I mean, imagine buying a games console and playing games on it? You'd be shunned.
-- ~~~~~
BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
MAME, LINUX, MP3s....all on a Dreamcast
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Not only can you run Linux on your Dreamcast NOW, you can also run MAME, which is something that seems to be on the Xbox owners wishlist. I was playing Defender and Donkey Kong Junior just the other night, in fact.
Oh yeah, and there are MP3 players, and an Image viewer (very handy for showing off your digital pictures.
Also, you can surf the web right OUT OF THE BOX! I don't understand why the Dreamcast hasn't been the darling of the Slashdot crowd.
The games are really good, and at $50, how could you pass this up??
You're an idiot
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You probably can't get on the site either.
With that doc and the kit...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
A linux kit and a great doc... that's all we need:)
Take a look at that link, only talks about Linux for Playstation's, BOTH 1 and 2. It has downloads for linux playstation kernals and other things. The site looks to be using slashcode also.:)
Enjoy.
-- CS majors, we are the geeks that run it all. Without us things die.
I heard somewhere that the PS3 would be using linux as a platform. Of course all that would be hidden away I imagine. Then again I might be misinformed, but it's an interesting idea.
I haven't been following the whole PS2/linux thing, so this may sound stupid to some. Will the PS2/linux box still be able to play PS2 games, or are you just turning it into a regular Linux box?
Visit the japanese sites !!!!!
by
mxpengin
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· Score: 1
Lets hope this doesn't turn out to be like beta max of ye olde times and gets ignored by the public because sony rules this this toy with an iron fist (* i am sure someone will be able to watch pr0n with it sooner or later *).
This is a new battlefield where sony already has a good foot in and decent name recognition, and M$ does not (* well unless you count msnbc or something *) hopefully sony can keep thier head out of thier arse.
Since xBox is more or less a home computer anyways i am sure microsoft already is planning to do something like this since most of the hardware is probably already there and Linux is such a big threat to them that they must thwart it in any given sector. so it won't be long before office XP is availble with IE 6 and AOL or what not further assimilating the generally ignorant public.
However i am curious how nintendo will play in all of this since they aren't making a whole heck of alot of PR on thier side of things.
I will most likely buy one in hopes that i will be able to build MAME and such to play on my tv. As far as being able to hack i am sure there will be some of that allowed but alot has changd since the commodore days so who knows what kind of policies they have in place, and besides hacking and coding is what my other computer is for:)
This does raise an interesting possibility...
by
ZaMoose
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· Score: 2
Namely, running XBoxGW on your PS2 to enable you to play Halo online. Betcha Billy G. would pitch a hissy fit *grin*
-- I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
These linux expansions could be really Sony's first experimental steps into a completely linux based ps3
Re:PS3: Linux out of the box?
by
bytes256
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· Score: 0
Yeah, that makes a lot of fucking sense for what is primarily a game machine. If you hadn't noticed, Linux isn't exactly up to it's armpits in 3d games.
Why?
There's a couple of reasons...
1.)Multitasking...multitasking wastes precious clock cycles by doing constant context changes. On windows this is a problem, but less of one because it doesn't launch so many daemons (or services) by default. In reality DOS was the last truly good gaming OS for PCs
2.)X - Let's face it, X just ain't meant for games...DRI is a step in the right direction but it's just another hack. If X can barely keep pace with a fucking web browser how do you think it's gonna handle games? And don't tell me about Quake and Doom and WineX...Yeah they run...but do they work as well as on Windows? I doubt it. (And besides they ain't gonna work on a PS because a PS ain't x86!)
3.)Boot time...Linux takes quite a while to boot...and you have to boot a lot of stuff that most games never end up even using. (Consoles...sockets...virtual memory...the kitchen sink...) and then once you get Linux booted, then you get to load your game, oh brother!
I love Linux as much as the next guy...but it's not the freakin' cure for world hunger and not really the best way to run games.
--
Slashdot, the site where everything's made up and the points don't matter
Re:PS3: Linux out of the box?
by
BayAreaRefugee
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· Score: 1
The main reason for it not being up to its armpits in games isn't technical (albeit there are issues there), it is the law of supply and demand. Game developers simply get more bang for their buck on Winx or game platforms where there's more demand.
Your reasons:
1) multitasking - Yes, Unix/Linux systems are designed as general purpose multi-tasking systems, but with the right engineering, can be made to work in parallel with a single-tasking game system. Probably not on a PS2, but perhaps on a PS3 with additional processor that could run Linux in the background, it could be simply a matter of switching resources to the processor with the game loaded on it. Thus the game is not impacted, and the user has access to Linux and the net with a button press. However some server-based daemons, etc. could run on the Linux processor to enhance certain games that for MUD's, etc. that could be left running all of the time, even when the user is playing another game locally.
2) X - as noted, X itself isn't designed as a windowing system for playing games, but those who on Suns have played Aviator (way before comparable flight sims were available on PC's) or Doom, know that one can build ways of directly talking to the display hardware and bypass the windowing system to achieve performance. The processor handling the PS/2 game could either swap itself onto the display hardware or punch a hole in the windowing system to display a game window as if it is displaying under X.
3. If Linux is running in the background after initial boot, and PS2 games can be loaded while it is resident, there should be little or no impact.
I'm not speaking with intimate knowledge of what's going on at Sony there. But I could certainly see with the PS3 that Linux could be the real nice glue that allows compatibility with older PS and PS2 games, and allows it to move to becoming more of an internet appliance/server that I and many others want that will also run Linux apps, etc. It would be great to have the options for a monster to tell me "You've got mail from xxx" before I kill it if there's something I'm waiting to be sent to me.
The nice thing about it being on a PS2 is that Sony can have it's future game environment well integrated with Linux if it is developing it themselves, whereas with an XBox, MS won't be giving it much thought and even if it were to be running, likely wouldn't be as well integrated.
Remember, this is a 32MB machine
by
Junks+Jerzey
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· Score: 2
It's not like you could just bring most Linux software over to it without experiencing extreme virtual memory thrashing.
PS2 Linux detailed Info
by
KwamiMatrix
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· Score: 1
For more info, visit this thread at Gamedev.net that I had with someone.
Also, visit this info from someone selling theirs on Ebay.
<A href="http://cgi.ca.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=1289509229">PS2 On Ebay</A>
mail/email Sony and express enthusiasm
by
emin
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· Score: 1
Just like everyone else, I'm really excited about being able to get a PS2 and run Linux on it. Is there a mail/email address for the appropriate place in Sony that I can write to? I'd like to tell them that as soon as they release this in the US I'll be at the store waiting in line to buy it.
Since we all spend a lot of effort writing letters to companies who do things we DON'T like, it would be nice to write letters and express support (both moral and financial) for companies that do things we DO like.
By the way, many schools seem interested in buying computers for their students/teachers. With Linux running on a PS2, these schools could now have a cheap hardware platform which can run office apps, graphics, math programs, and play DVD's and video games! What do you think kids would be more excited about, getting a free desktop running Windows or a free PS2 running Linux?
MS controls the private key
by
yerricde
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· Score: 2
Copy the signature byte for byte and put it where the bootloader looks for it?
Signature. Not magic cookie. Copying magic cookies (e.g. "Licensed by Sega" code) is legal under Sega v. Accolade, but Xbox's BIOS probably verifies the digital signature against the actual game data using asymmetric crypto where Microsoft holds the private key, and then stores the software decryption keys in the lead-in (like DVD-Video CSS) and probably makes some other major violations of the DVD-ROM standard. How are you going to burn the DVD again?
Why do people Dis the Xbox for being a "pc" and ..
by
cybrthng
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· Score: 2
Why is it that when the Xbox was released people say it "Is only a PC disguised as a console".
Now that the PS2 runs linux in the states, people are praising the console for becoming an affordable "pc".
If this was linux coming out on the xbox then people would say you can buy a more powerfull pc for the price of the xbox + keyboard + mouse when in all reality by the time you add a hard drive, floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, and monitor to your PS2 you have WELL EXCEEDED the cost of a XP 1900 system with tripple resources.
I don't get it. Do you want a console or another PC or is it only Anti Microsoft that the Xbox is a doomed "pc" and the PS2 is a great "pc"?
Hell, i got linux running on my Dreamcast, which is fine and dandy, but not going to replace my pc. More of a hack and a way to produce my own software and run it on the DC.
So yeah, its cool linux runs on another box, but this ranting and raving about how great a ps2 will be as a "pc" is about as pointless as making my Xbox a PC. They're not designed for that and for christs sake, for once the neither the Xbox or PS2 is standards compliant and both are proprietary systems so why the big fuss from such an anti-proprietary crowd and pro standard group?
Reason they haven't done this already
by
fishexe
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· Score: 1
is that you'd need a separate binary for each platform the software was intended to run on. Otherwise pc game manufacturers would have been doing this for years. I don't know much of the details of the iso 9660 spec but I'm presuming when you set up a boot sector (or whatever) it points to/contains a single binary and you can't make it switch based on what hardware is booting it. So your boot loader (lilo or whatever) would only be able to run on whatever architecture it was compiled for and you would only be able to boot from that version.
Or something.
-- "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
That'll probably be optional...
by
HiThere
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· Score: 2
A disk would add a lot to the cost. OTOH, a small disk, or some suitable substitute, might well be a necessity if they are going to start being a full e-mail system, net browser system, etc.
Problem is, those things won't add much cash to the pocket. So they will have to be paid for up front. I expect that whole module to be an extra cost add-on (add-in?). And wouldn't be surprised if it used proprietary hardware connections.
Under this scenario one would have the basic Playstation, and its add-on. Then one would have the hard-disk/e-mail system, and it's add ons. The basic hard-disk system would have a Linux Kernel, X Window, a browser, and not much else. Then there would be the development kit that one could add on to that. This might be priced cheaply, if Sony could count on selling any software created (or on giving it away as a valued-added extra). Otherwise it would need to cover its own cost, and then a bit more.
--
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
As many of us know, this is a RISC R5000 (modified) processor. This is the same kind of chip you'd get in a 02 likely. Indy's don't get 294mhz. The potential for digital video editing is probably pretty good, because as I recall, the PS2 has a 32mb video ram, they're probably using opengl for the video (considering it's a R5000), and it's a fast video chip to do all those games.
What I'm wondering, is why hasn't Sony released the source code to their modified Linux kernel? Linux is definatly GPL, XFree86 is GPL, at least a lot of the code, and plenty more apps. Isn't porting considered big enough a change that it requires a source release?
--
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
Re:It's RISC
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The source code is available from their Japanese
web site.
Re:It's RISC
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Just to nit-pick...
XFree86 is released under the XFree86 License, not GPL.
Re:It's RISC
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
No, it's not a slightly modified R5k core. Neither the R5k nor the R10k, R12k and the new PMC-Sierra RM7k has a design that is similar to the Emotion Engine, with it's vector units. And neither is it a processor based on the MIPS III ISA, it contains a hell of a lot of instructions from the MIPS IV ISA, as well as the MIPS MDMX/MIPS 3D ISA's. And no, it doesn't use OpenGL natively. It uses the 3D API that you have coded for it, even though there are a couple of 3rd party API's available.
a question about networking the ps2
by
tlh1005
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· Score: 1
Maybe someone here could answer this question...
My DSL company gave me a USB modem instead of ethernet. I currently have a basic hub and this is how I share my internet connection (using internet connection sharing in win2000). I've always wanted to know if I could use internet connection sharing with my linux box or another device like the PS2, TIVO etc. IS there a way I can do this using just a hub?
Re:a question about networking the ps2
by
RoninAdmin
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· Score: 1
Yeah, but for all your devices to access the net you will need them to have either exposed IP's or NAT. The easiest cleanest answer in your situation is to get a Linksys Broadband Router for $99, and use it's nat features. You would only need a 2 port router since you already have a hub (but don't hook up more than 4 devices that will be used simultaneously, or watch yer bandwidth go poof).
Re:Wow
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
But they put it in a case the size and weight of an anchor. And added "break-aways" to the controller cords, so it's harder to pull the system off a shelf with the controller.
The PS2 is not designed to use a hard drive, and barring a serious case and controller redesign, it will never have one. Not internal, at least. A couple of memory cards is enough for 90% of gamers, so a hard drive would be expensive (for Sony, if they don't increase prices) overkill for most people.
Where do you buy the Linux kit for the PS2?
by
cworley
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· Score: 2
Could sombody provide a URL?
-- When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates
-- for once, make him clean up after me!
tengen vs nintendo
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
Was the case that decided it I believe. Tengen produced a version of Tetris for the NES that was unlicensed (and supposedly one of the best versions made, it's prized among collectors of old school games), and courts decided that Tengen was within its rights to make the game without licensing the technology.
USB
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Forgive me for being so stupid as i dont know much about Linux and all but i would love to have Linux on my PS2. this is just a question for anyone who might know or have tryed. Has anyone linked up a USB or firewire Harddrive to there PS2 yet? Might be a great addon for people who will be getting linux for it.
Registered Interest on SCEA
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I hadn't seen anything linked in the discussion (Maybe its just that I read the base level posts) But has everyone who is interested registered their opinion with SCEA? If you haven't, make your voice known! Sony would only be bring it to the US if the marketability was high enough. Go ahead an/. http://www.ps2linux.scea.com/ now!
Re:This is no beta. We've been tricked!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The HTTP Server headers for that disclaimer page say that page was last modified "Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:09:51 GMT". So, fortunately, the article is more recent.
all this talk of ps2linux being major begs the question "how major is it in Japan?" they've had it for months now. if i walk down the street in japan and bump into some average PS2 playing teens are they gonna know what the hell I'm talking about (lets assume i can speak japanese and they can speak english)? is ps2linux a big thing in japan and if not hwo can we expect it to eb a big thing here? I'm all gung-ho for ps2linux but where is it? i wnat one. hell i want a real pic. i want a ballpark price.
-- -/* dead coders leave no comments */
AOHell on Linux? Since when?
by
MsGeek
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· Score: 1
AOL owns Netscape. Sony sees AOL as the 'killer app' for PS2 Linux.
AOHell ported to Linux?
Links, please!
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Home Entertainment Center?
by
Lilkeeney
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· Score: 1
I was thinking this would be perfect to use as a home entertainment center. You would be able to play DVDs and play games. I am not sure if this is possible, but could you play divx movies off either cd or the hard drive? How about mp3s? You could control it through the network. But if you are able to play DVDs, divx movies, mp3s, audio cds, PS2 games, linux games and control it over the network all while being relatively cheap, and in a small form factor case. Sounds like I will deffinetely have to get one. I am not sure how copy right protection works with sony, so I am not sure if this would work.
Why Linux on PS2...
by
Jedi+Holocron
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I read an article some months ago relating to this very concept. While I can not recall or find the exact link to the article, I'll try to relate the gist of it here.
Granted I'll admit to not having spent a lot of time dealing with Linux. I like it. I like what I've seen, but I'm far from a die hard fan/user. That may change. In any case...
The Case for Linux on the PS2:
One of the issues that seems to bother Linux is a lack of driver support. This is coupled by the myriad of nearly infite hardware combinations that are presented by the nature of PC comptable machines. Who know what hardware will be in which machine. Therefore, gobs of drivers must be available to make the product work effectively. The bonus of the PS2 is that the hardware is a given. A very focused distribution of Linux can be built and bundled with the console. It can be garrunteed to run properly because you have the same hardware in umpteen million units out there. Compatibility becomes a mostly non-issue. This is not the case with my experience with Linux in the PC compatible hardware realm.
So here is a solid base of a large number of known pieces of hardware that a very stable and secure distribution of Linux can be put on. Once that happens, software (in many forms, business apps, games, etc...) becomes that much easier to produce in a workable, stable, coherent form.
Now add into the mix Sony's partnership with AOL. As much as I hate AOL, think of the rammifications. An AOL Linux distro...run on every PS2 out there. Set top web access. Not to mention mozilla or what have you if you choose not to use the Sony/AOL service.
The Linux/PS2 bundle becomes a rather inexpensive, stable, useful internet/gaming/entertainment/home productivity device.
I'm sure I left out some of the original articles ideas, and I've added some of my own. Perhaps someone can point out the source I can't rememeber. Point being, though, the Linux/PS2 combo, if played right by Sony, could be major.
'nuff said.
Re:Why Linux on PS2...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
They make a set top box for AOL from philips. Gateway had a linux based "tablet" that also connected to AOL. These were only $200 and $100, respectively.
Re:This is no beta. We've been tricked!
by
Phil+Wilkins
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· Score: 1
The US HDD is indeed internal. The ethernet & modem unit sticks out about half an inch from the back of the PS2. Any shots with and external HDD unit are early japanese PS2s, or TOOLs (not certain about that last one, as I'm still waiting for my HDD).
The cheapest 40GB HDD in existance?
by
Esoteric+Moniker
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· Score: 1
40GB hard drive for $35 huh? Please give me a link to your supplier as I'd like to order a few thousand at that price.
As for only having 32MB of RAM, it's not what you have, its what you can do with what you have. Case in point: Metal Gear Solid 2.
--
man RTFM
No manual entry for RTFM.
Re:The cheapest 40GB HDD in existance?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You're right, I played Metal Gear Solid 2 this weekend. It was the worst gaming experience of my life. The first...3 minutes weren't bad. Then I has seen eveything from the TV commercials, and things went down hill. Game play was horrible, Graphics were not impressive.
Why is it that I much prefer my Dreamcast's graphics to the x-box or gamecube?
Re:The cheapest 40GB HDD in existance?
by
Rakarra
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· Score: 1
Why is it that I much prefer my Dreamcast's graphics to the x-box or gamecube?
Give it time. The X-Box and gamecube haven't been out for very long, and it seems like the first crop of games that go through a console are fairly rushed and of middling quality. I would certainly wait awhile before judging the X-Box or Gamecube's graphics, at least until game designers have time to innovate.
Re:The cheapest 40GB HDD in existance?
by
applejacks
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· Score: 1
Yes, 32 megabytes is quite a bit of ram and if developers would not have to use everybody else's libraries other than using one standard life would be great. I'm speaking about the LINUX. The operating system is gona eat up its portions of ram. Then X windows -- is gona have its pounds of flesh -- memory requirements. Next if your thinking about loading Gnome and Netscape 6.0 then that 32 megs is gona be gone. You'll be swaping like a cow swatting flies.:) I noticed in the screen shots they used Windowmaker. I think its rather clean and not as memory dependant as most window managers. Very cool eitherway. I still stand by my idea about building a new computer:)
peace all
Re:Wow, you must be amazingly FAT...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Absolutely fucking hilerious!!!
Just a (stupid) question...
by
maalox
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· Score: 1
anything that weakens MS is now in Sony's interest (as long as it doesn't weaken Sony more)
widespread acceptance of linux on the desktop would be just fine for Sony
this is could shoe-horn linux in underneath Windows in a lot of homes.
-- 'There is a Light that never goes out.'
PC Card slots on the PS2
by
jmorris42
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· Score: 1
Ah, shows how little I follow the console scene. So that confirms that the photo in the story was the Japanese version so we still don't know for sure what the US version looks like. If there aren't even pics yet the rumors of the price probably should be ignored as well.
I suppose a USB wireless interface would be an option as soon as one is supported. (Color me sceptical after fighting an Alcatel USB modem for my DSL line until surrendering and scrounging a SpeedTough Pro.) With the nit that a hub would be required to get keyboard, mouse and network.
Hasnt anyone seen any ps2 benchmarks? It goes about as fast as a k6 266 running linux.. like wow lets all get really excited about beowulf clusteres of them.. you might be able to put together say 20 and make one as powerful as an xbox.
Face it the old pc you are using now is way faster than a ps2. And if they ever add a OpenGL subsystem will help provide *basic* 3d functionality and slow the benchmarks even more.. yey again.
Go back to builing your own real pcs with linux and making them settop boxes. Sony proprietry non changable AOL linux is a marketing ploy, get over it.
Of course that might just have been a typo, considering your word, "advalible".
--
------- Incite and flee.
Yawn
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I'm glad you elected to come out of your bunker to post this. Anonymous tipsters do not amount to probable cause. Which isn't to say that I support John "My head is up my" Ashcroft. Just to say that the constitution does actually work.
Now back to your AAKGHOMDB meeting:)
(Thats American Association for Keeping the Government the Hell Outta My Damn Business.)
Which effin street would this be? The Street of Dreams? The Street of the Future? The Street of Absolute Bullshit? Or maybe The Street of Beta Testers Which You Don't Live On?
You wanna be journalists... then you wanna be the freaking Weekly World News. Make up your minds! This headline is blatantly and patently false.
How about "... set to hit the street" or something that, oh, say, resembles the truth?
This product has not hit any freakin street except the street of "you can't get it yet".
I love you guys, but that love was sorely tested today. Dammit.
From the limited material I have read, it sounds like the Xbox is not much less than a PC. Running linux on PCs wasn't too difficult, last time I checked.
Yes, there is probably something hardwired in the Xbox's bios to prevent other OSs from loading, but my bet is that there will be a simple way around it. Complex devices are very hard to make secure.
That would be great, i bet til march prices for the PS2 have dropped even further. Maybe i could use this thing as network router too. Endless possibilities...;-)
An excerpt from an article at SEGA Base, hosted on, which I recommend any video game afficando to read.
"The gist of it was that EA would get to make as many games as it wanted - something Nintendo had not offered them - and a reduction in licensing fees. Sega said no. It planned to impose a restrictive contract on EA just as it had done its other licensees, one that echoed similar Nintendo arrangements. Hawkins had anticipated this, however, and pulled a one-two sucker punch on Sega. Acting on his direction, EA's negotiators brusquely informed Sega of America that it didn't have that kind of clout to throw around; furthermore, EA had already reverse engineered the console and knew how to manufacture its own unlicensed Sega cartridges."
". In response to EA's actions, Sega developed a new security system for the Genesis and quietly incorporated it into the system boot ROM starting with the 1991 production batches. Sega called this proprietary code the TradeMark Security System (TMSS). In essence, it was a simplified version of the 10NES lockout chip that Nintendo had used in the NES. Sega had elected not to go to the 10NES route because they felt that a complete lockout solution was needless overkill. Their solution, the TMSS, was based on very simple principles of intellectual property law. A piece of code burned into the Genesis boot ROM would look for a header code that was supposed to be part of every Genesis program stored in cartridge format. If the header code contained certain unique characteristics, then it was a legitimately licensed Sega product. If the TMSS did not find what it sought, then it would refuse to boot up the system. If the system booted correctly, then the TMSS would display the phrase PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD. on the screen for a few seconds before running the program contained inside the cartridge. Both pieces of code, the one in the TMSS and the correct cartridge header code, were copyrighted Sega property. The TMSS also generated a trademark display every time it was activated, that being the Sega name itself. In essence, the TMSS was a double tripwire for anybody trying to produce unlicensed Genesis cartridges. If you made an unlicensed cartridge that activated the TMSS, then you were in violation of both copyright and trademark law. If you could figure out a way to get your game running without tripping the TMSS, then you were legally in the clear."
--
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
this
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
dsie fucking sucks die
Start Nov-24-01 15:28:03 PST
End Nov-29-01 15:28:03 PST
$66.00
This Sega Dreamcast was purchased in July and is good as new. Dreamcast comes with:
2 Sega Controllers
1 Sega Virtual Memory Unit
1 Performance Memory Card
1 Sega Keyboard
Phone Cord
All of which are in excellent condition. Memory cards still have memory files on them including high level Phantasy Star Online characters. If interested in a complete listing of files on cards email brassarj@purdue.edu .
System will be shipped fist class mail unless buyer has another preference. Will accept payments by ebay payments or check.
Hasn't anyone realized the truth?
by
ProudWindowsUser
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· Score: 1
I could be wrong and over-the-top but, to me, it's pretty obvious what Sony pretends to do with all this, since the whole purpose of Linux (Open Source/accessibility) is disrespected in not revealing any specifications to the PS2 bootstrap.
It's a sad and vile attempt to persuade Linux fans into thinking a PS2 is better than an XBox (which it isn't and you extremist anti-MS freaks know that:]) and ultimately sell more.
Re:IMPORTANT - THE LINUX GAY CONSPIRACY - PLEASE R
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Is this related to the Microlimp implant? Apparently, it is a small electrical device that sends messages directly to your brain from the power grid. Here's the announcement:
Microlimp corporation announces the Microlimp implant! From now on, you will be able to monitor the world from your own mind! Microlimp implant broadcasts directly into your brain using a power frequency devoted specifically to you! Not only will you be able to monitor your own bowel movements, but you will respond to the movements around you! Imagine, "Harry, I loved the last movement, can we try another one?" Or, "Yeoww, cute kitty, that was a good one!"
Results may vary. If you see these symptoms, see your doctor. In some cases you may try placing foil around your head to block the "frequency".
Slashdot Mirror
I only want one if I can 'apt-get install xbill' :)
We can't do gl for ps2, but we know MS/Nvidia will still have a GL api for X-box(Carmack) Offtopic, yes, but when can we hack x-boxes?
Ok, who thinks they just found their next computer? I know I've been waiting for this to happen for a long while so I could finally justify the cost of one or more PS2s (mmm, USB networking) - it's not a toy, it's my development station! Err... yeah! ^^;;
Ain't Linux great?
--Knots
Anarchy$ dd if=/dev/random of=~/.signature bs=120 count=1
The retail price for one of these is expected to be $150 from what I hear. I wouldn't say its a very bad price. Its also supposed to come with some other nice goodies including an emulator for x86 only supposed to be used for coding heheh :).
... took any tips from NetBSD. :P
Do you like German cars?
I think this is odd. Since X box uses pc hardware, wouldn't that be more likely to have linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
I can't wait to get a beo*slap* i'll shut up now.
Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
If you're going to use the built in networking on the PS2, why use USB? The thing comes with firewire ports! Thats more bandwidth then 100baseT ethernet :)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Bonus points for anyone who gets up an Apache web server on their PS2 and posts the url here ;)
wouldn't that be more likely to have Linux ported to it? then again, x-box just came out.
The PS2 has been out a lot longer, Had a Linux based development kit, has had a Linux port out in Japan for a while now, oh, and it isn't controlled by a corporation that considers Linux the "number 1 threat".
Sony has been on the Linux bandwagon with the PS2 for a while. Remember they ported this themselves, it's not a hack.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Did anyone notice several pieces of Playstation hardware being mentioned in the /var/log/dmesg they gave? Specifically a "PlayStation 2 SMAP(Ethernet)" and a "Graphics Synthesizer"?
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
I'm not suggesting anything; I'm seriously asking a question.
A Trolltech employee once said he wouldn't consider Linux a success until his mother was running it. I don't think the Mom Test is necessarily a fair one, but I get his point: When Linux penetrates the average user's home or office, it will have passed a significant milestone. Well until Linux is ready to beat out Microsoft in the desktop, where else can Linux be a useful alternative operating enviornment for the user who is not an expert? The answer is simple - on embedded devices. So you can imagine how cool it is that Sony finally got on the CLUE bus and decided to offer a Linux Kit to the world for its Playstation 2 console unit. Previously it was only available in beta form, for japanese models. The official announcement came via cnn, you can read the article by clicking here. So what does this mean for your typical console gamer or linux enthusiast exactly? In a nutshell it means your Video Game console will also be a valid bonafied NC/AC (Network Computer/Appliance Computer) unit.
/w HD 15 plus Stereo Audio
/var/log/dmesg ----
/var/log/dmesg ----
:-)
The kit consists of:
DVD-ROM containing a Linux Release specifically designed by Sony to boot the PS2
40 GByte Hard Drive
10Base-T/100 Base-TX Ethernet Interface
USB Keyboard
USB Mouse
VGA AV Connector
PS2 Linux Kit
The DVD that contains linux will ship with many packages you've grown up with linux like:
Linux Kernel
XFree86 (which means practically every single GUI application you can run from a desktop linux machine)
gcc
glibc
XFree86 on PS2
Here are a couple more images of linux running a ps2. On your left is Xscreensaver (not sure which one) and on your right is "gv" running inside WindowMaker.
I didn't list the versions of these packages because simply put, nobody but sony knows what they will decide on at release time. But expect the packages to be up-to-date. Below is the output of dmesg from the Linux Kit running off a japanese version of the playstation 2. How cool is that..
---- begin snippet from
Loading R5900 MMU routines.
CPU revision is: 00002e14
Primary instruction cache 16kb, linesize 64 bytes
Primary data cache 8kb, linesize 64 bytes
Branch Prediction : on
Double Issue : on
Linux version 2.2.1 (master@linux) (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)) #94 Thu Apr 19 12:13:01 JST 2001
no initrd found
Console: colour dummy device 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 392.40 BogoMIPS
Estimated CPU clock: 294.240 MHz
Memory: 30724k/32760k available (1216k kernel code, 752k data)
Checking for 'wait' instruction... unavailable.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PlayStation 2 SIF BIOS: 0200
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0 for Linux NET4.0.
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
Linux IP multicast router 0.06 plus PIM-SM
Starting kswapd v 1.5
PlayStation 2 device support: GIF, VIF, GS, VU, IPU, SPR
Graphics Synthesizer revision: 00005508
Console: switching to colour PlayStation 2 Graphics Synthesizer 80x28
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Real Time Clock Driver v1.09
rtc: Digital UNIX epoch (1952) detected
usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs
usb.c: registered new driver hub
usb.c: registered new driver usb_mouse
usb.c: registered new driver keyboard
usb-ohci.c: USB OHCI at membase 0x1f801600, IRQ 42
usb-ohci.c: GrowLocalMem 64K bytes
usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 1
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
RAM disk driver initialized: 1 RAM disks of 10240K size
loop: registered device at major 7
PlayStation 2 IDE DMA driver
hda: ST340823A, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0xb4000040-0xb4000047,0xb400005c on irq 41
hda: ST340823A, 38166MB w/1024kB Cache, CHS=4865/255/63, (U)DMA
LVM version 0.8i by Heinz Mauelshagen (02/10/1999)
lvm -- Driver successfully initialized
scsi : 0 hosts.
scsi : detected total.
Partition check:
hda: hda1 hda2
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
Freeing unused kernel memory: 48k freed
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 2
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 3
keybdev.c: Adding keyboard: input0
input0: USB HIDBP keyboard
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 4
input1: USB HIDBP mouse
PlayStation 2 Sound driver
Adding Swap: 136516k swap-space (priority -1)
eth0: MAC address 00:04:1f:ff:fa:bc
eth0: Auto-negotiation complete. 100Mbps Full duplex mode.
PlayStation 2 SMAP(Ethernet) device driver is loaded.
---- end snippet from
Now with all this one has to think of what you can't do with a ps2 running linux. Well a couple things actually. Don't expect you can pop in any of your self-made CD's into it. This isn't an OSI issue as much as it is a hardware-level one. The Playstation2's CD-ROM drive is unable to read normal data CD-ROMs. Special Playstation2-CDs can be created so that PCs can read them, but not vice versa, simliar to the GD-ROMs for the Dreamcast that can't be created on a CD-R.
Another common question is how will Linux boot on the Playstation2? All the software in the world, regardless if it's runnable object code or source code with the most advanced compiler, is worthless if it can't be loaded into memory on the target machine and made to execute on the CPU. The perfect Linux system for the Playstation2 wouldn't make any sense at all, if it couldn't be booted.
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Linux will likely not boot directly off a self-made CD-ROM, nor from the optional harddrive unit, since no technical details about the port are currently known except a couple rumors, I'm going to speculate here and list some of the possibilities:
depend on the boot loader (like LILO or grub) stored on a memory card, similar to the DVD player driver updates they distributed early on
require a CD/DVD-ROM sold by Sony as an "authentication" mechanism
require some special hardware so it could be booted from an external source (think of disk-less machines with root over NFS)
only boot from the "official" CD that Sony sells. eg. Custom kernels unsupported. (The freedom to compile a custom kernel and freely boot it is very important. I honestly hope that Sony makes a decision which would be acceptable by the community as well as not risk their business model)
In anycase, any "boot loader" would most likely be proprietary closed-source. We just have to accept this. The BIOS of any common PC that boots the operating system is proprietary, too.
In short, I bought a Sony Playstation 2 unit with no intention of running any OS off it. I purchased it simply because its the coolest console video game unit I've ever seen and the game developement for it will be long-standing. The fact it also acts as a DVD player was a plus for sure. But when they tossed up the idea of throwing Linux on it, obviously because Microsoft's Xbox is going to bridge the gap between PC/console, I see endless possibilities now. Keep in mind this linux kit isn't a 'developers-only' package. This is going to be the interface that every ps2 user who wants to get online or treat his ps2 like a PC, will be using. Alot of wincentric folks are going to see linux for the first time, in all its glory and I wouldn't be suprised if some people will forever associate linux as "that video game OS." Any attention is better than none
Heheheheh, thats a nice idea. Set up a 100-node beowulf cluster and then have SETI@Home run on it. It sounds like a good idea.... come on, wjay cant we all just play GTA3 :)
Looks like the site is slashdotted already; anyone got a mirror they want /.ed real fast? I want this: I have a PS2, and would love to get my hands on a Linux distro that runs on it.
By the way, does anyone know if other distros (eg XDarwin) could be ported to PS2, now that this is here?
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Damn, I just bought an XBox, too!!
And to the people out there thinking that this is stupid, I have but one thing to say. Linux being able to run on such a vast multitude of platforms and different architectures should indeed bear testimony to a truly portable and well designed operating system. It's not about why, but how.
On a more on topic note, I wonder what kind of benefits this would provide to the people with mod chips in their PS2s. Could it possibly put the knowledge about how the PS2 works out in the public domain? And if so, did Sony think about this?
Oh the possibilities... Check out Flight Gear (http://www.flightgear.org) and wonder if that could be made to favorably run on a PS2/Linux machine. GNU PS2 games... Mmmm. And foremost, could this allow for developers to make PS2/Linux a better gaming platform than XBox/WinXB[sic]?
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
Check out the full system, including Sony's PS2 Flatscreen monitor here. Damn, it's really slick.
Anyone also notice how smart of a move this is for R&D at Sony? They just sit back, sell units, and wait for someone to code/port the perfect office suit/browser/etc that fully integrates the PS2 into the home office, and then they sell more units! I'd say this puts them at least a step ahead of Microsoft.
It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.
What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:
I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.
Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail, which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'
As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.
And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo slut!
Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children. To quote from the article linked:
'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'
Is this why you were touching your penis in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?
We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexuallover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.
Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.
In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual practice of anal fisting. The Mandrake product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.
Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis, glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.
And Red Hat is secret homo slang for the tip of a penis that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.
The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other automatically.
The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously /anus, but there are others. Militant fags even
say 'there is no /opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts
faggotry is not optional but a way of life.
More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.
Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!
Even the title 'Slashdot' originally referred to a homosexual practice. Slashdot of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/.
The editors of Slashdot also have homosexual names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot runs on Apache!
The Apache server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.
And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.
To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'
FEEDBACK
Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo-calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.
Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!
Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator.
We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism.
Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!
For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church. Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.
Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.
Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'
One scary thing about Perl is that it contains hidden homosexual messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'
And PHP stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?
Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.
*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.
However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)
In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.
If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation. Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???
If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!
I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.
I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.
I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman.
What the fuck?
Well bugger me!
Fuck right off!
IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain. You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat, but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.
Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.
Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.
Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?
Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.
ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!
Jack Buck (1924-2002)
Darryl Kile (1968-2002)
PS2 Linux?
Page not advalible now
Must be Slashdot
Welcome to the Entropy Bar, may I take your order?
...you could check out this link to cnn it had in the article.
--
making up good sigs is a hard thing to do.
I am seriously not trying to troll. This is a real question that I'd like to know the answer to. I'm not bashing Linux (hell, I have a Linux box which I love playing with). I know I'll get flamed anyways.. but here goes...
Why would I want a Linux PS2? When playing games on the PS2, I just put a CD/DVD in, boot up, and play. Why should the average Joe Customer care what OS it's running?
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
I'd really appreciate it if anyone could enlighten me on this point?
You mean besides,
All
the
really
really
great
games
?
And many more... You just can't beat the PS2 right now simply because it has so many amazing games available for it. Sorry it's offtopic, but it's true.
I posted to
Does it play games?
Can't wait to see MPlayer and DivX4Linux on PSX2, with broadband access for movie downloads and peer-to-peer sharing.
The ultimate gaming machine- Beowulfed Linux PS2's!
I've already got a PS2, and I can pretty much say that I'll get this... assuming I have the money for it. But does anyone know how crippled its going to be? I mean is Sony going to release the components and software you'll need to turn it into a 'true' Linux system right out of the box? I mean the thing does have a nice little CPU, it's cheap, and it's got a small form factor. I'd bet they would make for a nice server array, if they didn't put out to much heat.
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
What browser does it use? I know sony made a deal with aol... The article doesn't seem to mention it.
Looks like Sony is trying to upstart m$'s future homestation, any bets till how long it will be till we see an XP package ship for the xbox to counter this? My crystal ball says 2 months at latest.
Perhaps I have just missed it, but any information on networking this beast? I have heard that the ethernet adapter for the PS2 isn't due out till after the winter shopping season. (Sony has to be kicking themselves over that one, networking is the only thing the Xbox really has over the PS2) Any word on how the box running Linux would use this network adapter?
I just flipped my self-burned CD-R into my $50 Dreamcast, just to reply to this. You can do this today, for about as much money as a PS2 game and a keyboard. Granted, no hard disk, but the idea was to mess with embedded Linux.
Don't miss the point here. Run to "Toys R us", and scoop up the Dreamcast (read the manufacture date through the hole in the back to make sure it was made before Sept. 2000). Go to fivemouse.com and grab the image. Burn it with DiscJuggler, and start playing with embedded Linux tonight!
-Spackler
Wow... I just thought of something. Does anyone realize what would happen if Sony started pre-loading Linux onto PS2's? Does anyone realize how many users would learn to use (and love) Linux? Consider this - the original Playstation sold close to 100 million units (maybe more?), and the overwhelming majority were sold in latter years of its life.
I'd say this is a fairly likely scenario, actually. Once the price comes down enough, Sony would be smart to start bundling PS2's with harddrives - and so it really wouldn't be a big stretch to throw in the keyboard/mouse combo as well. And if they do that, consumers are going to expect additional functionality. Why pay extra for a harddrive when all it does is store saved games? In comes Linux. By that point, there will already be a browser, a word processor, and a useable GUI developed especially for the PS2. Thus the sub-$300 gaming AND browsing PC becomes a reality - and it runs Linux.
http://www.stormcloudtech.com/~gabe/mirror/
Sorry, didnt get a chance to mirror the full size screen shots.
hey, does anyone have a cyberage id I can use?
:)
(I *know* 95% of slashdot readers do, so why not open source yours?
This obviously has everything it needs for a low cost / low power cluster. Can anyone tell me if would make a cost effective rendering cluster (eg, Maya)?
Maskirovka
Sony (as well as Nintendo and Microsoft) make money by selling software. They all take a hit when it comes to selling the hardware. If Sony just sells more systems and no more games, they lose money and 3rd party developers will note that. From that, I can only assume that there are some serious limitations placed on the hardware. According to the article, you cannot use home-made CD-R's in the system. That seems to limit some of its usefulness and value to anyone looking to use.
Oh, just me. Natch.
But I doubt Linux for the X-Box will ever amount to much. I mean, yeh people ported Linux to the dreamcast, but its not like millions of DC owners out there used it for anything.
PS2 Linux, OTOH, is going to be major. Supported by the company that makes the hardware (and maybe even a marketing campaign if we're lucky), it could end up being major. And in a lot of peoples hands that wouldn't normally go around hacking their videogame hardware.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Yeah, linux-hacker.net has some of those. Its gonna save you about 400 bucks :)
Wow, this is clearly a definition of legitimate I had not encountered before! Not that I can argue with it, mind you. Now if only my wife were willing to accept that logic....
"Actually, I enjoyed this in the same vague, horrible way I enjoyed the A-Team" P. Opus
Is the code to these drivers being released, and if not, is it a GPL violation?
Well, Sony is only required to give the source to people who they give/sell the software to. Not everyone in the world. Since this is only in beta, and a few people have it, its a non-issue. When the system goes into wide release, though, it would be a different matter. Presumably Sony would send a CD along with the unit containing any modified source (same as with products like the Tivo)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/10/24/linux .ps2.idg/
It's very simple to do. (<a href="URL">link text</a> in HTML posting mode) and makes everyone's life a little easier. Text links defeat the whole purpose of the web, and if they are to long slashcode inserts spaces into them that keep the page format from getting screwed up (but also break the URLs)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Eventually, the price of producing the unit comes down to the point where they do make a profit. Sony today makes money on every ps1 sold. They can just wait until they start making profit before they sell the Linux kit.
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'm going to buy and set Linux on my PS2 because I'm lazy and have a bad memory?
Its not the comment that upset about, its the fact that someone thought that it was Interesting. Thats really reaching.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
One of the pictures shows Netscape being run on the PS2. It looks to be 4.7x. Last time I checked netscape was closed source.
How did they get Netscape to run on the PS2 risc "emotion engine" CPU? I assume you could get the source to mozilla and away you go for whatever CPU, but that doesn't look like what is happeneding here. Can someone enlighten me?
For anyone who didn't know, AOL made it's client software for the PS2 a long time ago. Once the official broadband adapter + hd hits the streets, guess what? Yeah you can use aol over your phone line/broadband connection on your ps2. This was announced about 4 months ago when AOL made the deal with Sony. I'm not surprised Netscape runs on the ps2 either. A linux port to PS2 is effortless. Mozilla comes next of course.
Also there have been full-mockup pictures of the entire PS2 hardware collection floating around since the summertime. The flatscreen 15" monitor, black keyboard and mouse etc. have been prototyped and available within Sony for months.
I've never seen pricing for the kit, how much is it going to cost?
Sony has released its distribution of the GNU/Linux OS for PlayStation 2 in the USA.
17 USC 109(b)(1)(A) prohibits rental of computer software in the United States. Section 109(b)(1)(B), on the other hand, makes an exception for software designed to run on video game consoles. But does the release of PS2 Linux make the PS2 into a "computer" under the law, and thus ineligible for software rental without explicit contracts between each video game publisher and each rental shop?
Will I retire or break 10K?
The Xbox still dosn't have 'online' play, just lan. Which the PS2 can do via firewire.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Considering that Microsoft is a Competitor (Xbox) I don't see as how Sony has any alternative If they want the PS2 to come pre-loaded with browser and e-mail software etc. We're all well aware of what ended up happening to Sega with it's attempts to develop software for the DC. They lost a lot of money for a browser that only works with the built in modem. Sony Isn't stupid, From what I gather the idea is to sell the 'linux' kits first to get linux developers to play around and fix any bugs they come across. IF Xbox is still around they start shipping the PS2 with HD and linux (although they will probably have some kinda onscreen keyboard software instead of shipping a hardware one) people who want the keyboard and mouse will find them readily available. and people who don't want to 'really' learn linux they'll probably be able to run the mp3 player well enough with just a single controller.
Does anybody know if I could use this to run my favorite Linus game, Doom. I do have a beowulf cluster of DreamCasts, all running Doom, and I wonder if it would now work on a PS2. I imagine it would work, running this on a beowulf cluster of these things. I don't see why it wouldn't.
Ok I admit that this post isn't up to my usual standards. I'm just very tired, and I had a rough day. I just want to say to all you other beowulf posting LOSERS, you guys can't even make the first cut! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!
One of the pictures shows Netscape being run on the PS2. It looks to be 4.7x
If your computer contains a Netscape Communicator 4.x profile when you install Mozilla, Mozilla defaults to the Classic theme, which looks like Netscape Communicator 4.7.
Last time I checked netscape was closed source.
Mozilla is free software licensed under the Mozilla Public License and the GNU { |Lesser} General Public License. Netscape 6.x is mostly MPL/LGPL free software with some minor proprietary things linked in (AIM client, spell checker, etc) but the Mozilla team is working on replacing those.
Will I retire or break 10K?
People get paid by getting people to sign up. Once they do, they're is no reason for them to have compelling content beyond the gateway. Once everyone gets one system, people will move on to another.
Very few people actualy get those things anyway, there's tons and tons of free porn on the net.
Check out the hun or autopr0n and you'll basicaly get all the porn you could ever want.
PS2 has to compete with the XBox (x86, _should_ not be hard to "port" linux to)
How are you going to even load Linux on an Xbox console? Xbox (not the more expensive XDK) uses a proprietary bootloader that checks for a digitally signed kernel.
Will I retire or break 10K?
A legit reason to buy a PS2 is to play games. Running Linux on one is a novelty that is pretty pointless and a waste of money. How much fun is running Linux on an overpriced, underpowered, closed system?
on their PS2?
And of course you'll be able to use tintin++ to play MUDs, as well.
/Styx
Three geeks? You can already buy a cheap actually upgradeable PC for a couple hundred bucks with a less-ridiculous amount of memory. The usefulness of a proprietary system is questionable.
-Kevin
Would buying this kit eliminate the need to buy a keyboard/mouse and ethernet interface when online gaming becomes a reality for the PS2??
.. playing TH3, FFXI in your off time and running the greatest OS the rest of the time!
:P
That would make this whole thing even worth more
I'll finally put that kvm box to good use!
Hmmm...
Since the retail Quake 3 for PlayStation 2 sucked bad would it be an outraegous idea to think that maybe Quake 3 for Linux could be run on the PlayStation 2 making everything in the Quake 3 world all happy happy again?
yeah great fucking idea, except for the fact that sony makes it's money from games and not the console.
Don't expect you can pop in any of your self-made CD's into it. This isn't an OSI issue as much as it is a hardware-level one. The Playstation2's CD-ROM drive is unable to read normal data CD-ROMs.
How does this make sense when the PS2 is capable of reading normal PSX discs? PSX discs are standard CD-ROMs.
SDL is only for 2d and media access to the hardware, not 3d. It does most of the directX stuff, but not D3d.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Thank god Sony just made my decision easier.
This is a stolen sig.
It almost makes me ill to read something like this...."Finally I have a legit reason to buy a PS2"...how about those of us that realize there are actually...games to play on the console? Not to mention the fact that it /is/ a console. Will I have a legit reason to buy a leafblower when someone finds a way to put Linux on it? I mean, come on. I run my domain on Linux boxes, and I play games on my PS2...imagine that. I'm sure this will end up being 'flamebait', but most of you need to get a grip on this stuff.
Nonsense. Console systems have to be robust. They get yanked off of tables, dropped, generally beat up.
Hard drives may be a lot more robust then they once were, but they are not up to dealing with the level of abuse a console system takes.
And since they are already losing money on the consoles, they certainly would not be "smart" to start shipping them with hard drives. It would kill them on returns, warranty repair and the like.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
This is not quite correct. If you look at the various analysts assessment of the market, they all state that at $299 Sony make money on the console. There is a rumour that they will lower the price in US after Xmas, They have just dropped the proce in UK to 199Pound I believe.
Help fight continental drift.
Oh boy. Here we go.
This is the exact reason the XBOX was conceived and released - to counter all of those CPU cycles being "wasted" in game consoles on a non-Wintel platform. I'd bet Microsoft has been terrified for many years that every kid who has a game console actually has a computer, and someone somewhere would make the consoles behave like real computers. XBOX is supposed to beat them to the punch.
It's classic Microsoft strategy.
if { Game_Console == Computer and Game_Console == Pervasive_penetration_into_homes and Game Console != Requires_Windows}
then
{ Game_Console == Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position};
else
{Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
End if;
do
{ Attack_Compeditors_base_market (undercut_price, add_proprietary_tech);
Delflect_Competition_from_Windows(FUD_FUD_FUD, De-comodotize);
}
until {Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
The PS/2 is no C64 - and Microsoft knows it. This has been brewing for some time - you could tell Microsoft felt threatened by all those game consoles that didn't need them (Except Sega, IIRC, and we know what happened to them). So, Microsoft attacked Sony's bread and butter with the XBOX. This is the shot Sony is firing back. This is going to be fun to watch. Heh - I know whose side I'm on - the consumers.
BTW - those of you with Sony VAIOs running Windows should keep tabs on your machine's stability for a while *grin*.
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Of Amiga and my old C64 back then. Wonder if it's going to be the same fun, like truly hackabily, or is Sony going to keep the good stuff off limits. Does anyone know if you could boot it off other than its cd-drive?
Really.. why the hell would you want to run Linux on the fucking PS2?
Read it again, he's sayin that M$ will release a Windows XP CD for the Xbox.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Yeah, this is gonna be just as big a hit as the Coleco Adam, maybe even bigger! After all, who wouldn't want to do a little word processing on his game console?
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
These console games are rugged and are designed to take the beating that kids can dish out. And at 392 bogoMIPS that is more than my wife's celeron-266! Think of the savings I'll have by loading that thing up with Linux games rather than having to buy every single stinking piece of software at console game prices!
Yeah, thats the ticket!
Clickety Click
There was some discussion about Linux running on PS2 at a TFUG meeting last night. Someone asked if NetBSD had been ported to it yet. The only reason Linux beat NetBSD in being the first to run on PS2 was because of the big corporate push. I'm not knocking Linux, it's just that the NetBSD developers have _ALOT_ more experience with porting an OS to different architectures (it has currently been ported to 46!!).
How much is someone willing to bet that NetBSD will beat Linux in being the first OS to run on an XBox?
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
All those things you say sound great, however wouldn't the Xbox seem like a more viable platform for such things? Despite the fact that Microsoft will be very against it, what can they do to hackers porting linux to it (if you can call it a "port").. I'd bet my money on the Xbox being better for server/linux applications, even though it's from Microsoft... I can't wait to see what develops
-Shawn [ge6.org]
Actually I am a cheapskate and was hoping that the release of XBox and GameCube would force the prices lower (so much for that) but if the this PS2 sells for less than $500, this baby will be mine.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
How about all the games written for the Atari 2600 & 5200, C64, NES, SNES, Amiga, plus MAME games and any other systems Linux emulators exist for?
That's a lot of damn games...
After reading this article it dawned on me that this isn't a beta of the US version of linux for the PS2. It is just a english site on the Japan version.
The X11 screen shot on that site is exactly the same as on the Japan site. Furthermore the kit showing is also right off the Japaneese site. Check out this dmesg on the site. Look familiar?!?. Ya I though so.
From my understanding the US version will have an internal harddrive/network card to fit in that big hole in the back of the PS2. Now I am a little dissapointed. This casts no forshadow to release of the US version and we still have to wait. Why this even made Slashdot I am not sure, but dont be fooled with this trickery.
Microsoft is already shipping a console with a harddrive built in...it's called the XBox.
Maybe it should be called WorkStation 2 instead. =)
A lot of people are slavering at the possibility of porting a bunch of Linux games onto the PS-2, perhaps getting a cheaper/better Quake for PS-2 that way.
However, we need to be realistic about this. None of those things are possible until/unless there is a good hardware-accellerated OpenGL port for the beast.
As far as I can tell, there isn't such a thing in existance - and whilst we can certainly port Mesa onto it, we won't get hardware accelleration and it'll run S-L-O-W.
Even with a good OpenGL port, you still wouldn't see stellar performance because the PS-2's 3D processor isn't optimised for running OpenGL - it takes a lot of wierd programming tricks to get speed out of the PS-2 and without free access to the hardware details, there is little or no chance of getting good 3D games running on it.
Of course, all of this changes if Sony announce an OpenGL implementation or release the hardware details - but I'm not holding my breath.
The Beginner's Guide to Animal Autopsy
Then how is the new Orifice XP license legal? Or .NET?
Because you sign a contract with Microsoft (or click your signature onto an on-screen EULA, but legal experts currently dispute enforceability of such schemes). It's illegal for the purchaser to rent copies of computer software not designed for a game console, but it's perfectly OK for the copyprivilege owner to do so, which is why I mentioned that Sony could potentially make contracts with video store owners. However, this opens up another can of worms relating to potential discriminatory policies about rental licensing; these issues already pop up in Japan, where consumers' first sale rights are much weaker.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Notice anything missing from the dmesg output?
Yup, just the hard drive! No access to the closed hardware in the CD/DVD player. No CD/MP3/DVD/VCD/Divx;) players for us until some outsiders reverse engineer things and distribute a loadable module.
Bummer. I'd have bought one in an instant as a play everything console.
Anybody know if it has one or two PC Card slots? It needs one for the HDD/ethernet but since ethenet to my TV would be a bitch I'd prefer to slam a Orinoco into it.
Democrat delenda est
The bioses in US dreamcasts manufactured after November 2000 will not boot audio/data multi-session cds. This was done because major piracy groups (Echelon mainly) were using this as their primary self-booting game format. The workaround is to convert the audio/data cd to a data/data cd.
Better gettting excited over games than this silly war. We are trying to get a few guys that did a bad thing. Its not the end of the world
When this is released how long could it possibly be before we are able to play divx movies on our TV through the PS2. No more packing the computer between rooms with the other alternative being watching them on a little 17" monitor. Can't wait to see what happens!
I can see it now.
Hey buddy. Wanna play MGS2 tonight?
You can't? Why?
Hackers!?!
Did what to your PS2?
You were running what?
Whatever!
"click"
so, when did being a gamer and wanting the next sony console become not legit?
Microsofts makes the X-Box Microsoft does not have a very good security record for "Keeping People Out."
Until now, Microsoft never wrote a BIOS. The typical PC BIOS lets you replace the bootloader with lilo, grub, etc. However:
Short of desoldering the Xbox's BIOS chip and replacing it with a mod chip, how can you insert your own code into the Xbox's bootstrap sequence?
Will I retire or break 10K?
The PS1 did NOT play standard CD-ROMs - you had to hack the unit to make your burned units work.
I'd have wagered that the PS2 would make this a little harder to do, but follow that link -- it looks EASIER.
Since linux practically runs on every D@#$ thing in the world, is free, has a metric ton of developer tools... I have only one question...
Why doesn't anyone ship a cd that boots linux,X11 4.01, and then runs their 3D game? If a game developer did this would they not be able to run it on Mac,PC(3D accel required), PS2(special ver.), XBOX(sure that's next if not already), Toaster Oven, etc. Seems like if a game developer really wanted to hit the entire market, they could use BSD or Linux pretty easily... I don't know how the GPL plays with shipping a binary linux kernel with a commercial product, but BSD license is all peachy. Even GPL, can you not just ship the source code on the same CD for everything but your game. (Linux distro's do this, so I don't see why game developers can't.) I don't see what I'm missing. Seems to me a larger market base for games + more games for linux is a win-win situation for the Linux community and the game publishers. Is the compiler for those processors just not optimized? Is there no OpenGL X11 support for the video of the PS2? Is Sony intentionally not wanting to compete with computers? Any fine game developers/legal experts/people generally smarter than me want to point out the flaw in my thinking? (Assuming it's flawed because someone else would have already jumped the idea if it was feasible. Then again, it could be at least a new goal for linux. I know a lot of gamers that would enjoy the power of linux. I know linux wasn't developed for realtime processes, but 2.4 is decent. I'm sure a game dev would tweak the scheduler.)
Karma Clown
2.2.1
Surely they can get a little more up-to-date than that.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
I haven't tried my PS2 as a DVD player since my roommate owns a regular DVD player, but I have heard that the PS2 has some problems playing movies and whatnot.
With the Linux boot, though, could you get a better Linux player making movies easier to watch. And ooh, an interface to use the PS2 remote in Linux so I can have remote-controlled use of an ogg player.
Tired of sitting at that karma cap? Start a flame war today! See just how low you can go!
OK, so you put in the Linux boot disk... then what happens? Does LILO boot the linux kernel that you have stored on the PS2 hardrive? Or does it boot a kernel that resides on the CD.... my guess is one on the CD. Now Playstation 2's will not play any type of burned media.... CD or DVD. (Unless you mod your playstation2 and get a GameShark boot disk). So what happens when I want to patch the kernel? Or edit my startup scripts? Or just flat change my distro? I'm sure Suse or Redhat will have something before too long....
Also if the kernel is on the boot CD, I just cant eject that CD and put in a MP3/DivX/DVD disk in it either.... meaning I'm going to have to pull any content that I want from those types of media from another source on my network. Granted... there is a certain amount of geekish pride in rigging it this way, but its definitely not conveinent. Who (outside of slashdot readers) has ethernet strung to thier entertainment centers?
- J Rob
Maybe I do not fully understand the technology in the PS2 correctly... but doesn't it actually have TWO 300mhz cpu's? I believe one of them has a bus directly to the graphics core...
(Okay, technically it has 3 cpu's... if you consider the I/O Controller is actually a psx core... and I do believe it is supposed to be somewhat programmable... but I could be wrong hehehe)
Looking at the dmsg log.. it seems only one of the cpu's are being initialized.
Luke
Three that will use it once, and never use linux on it again, going back to their GTA3 and masturbating furiously.
Forget it. Never mind. No way is this thing worth $475. Ok, I get a new Dual AthalonMP, wife gets the Dual PII, kid gets the Celeron-266
Clickety Click
xp embedded is to Windows XP professional what Windows CE was to Windows 98.
Of course it's only a matter of time before some clever people do port Linux to XBox.
Ain't gonna happen. Microsoft controls the BIOS, and the Xbox will run only signed, encrypted code. See my previous comment. Of course, you could theoretically throw in a mod-chip, but Microsoft would use its vast re$ources to sue any mod-chip maker out of existence.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If you want a portible computer a laptop is far more powerful, plays games just as well if not better, and best yet, Linux was DESIGNED for it unlike the mutilated PS2 Linux.
I think this is a waste of time, just like the Dreamcast linux, If developers want to do something useful, Improve linux for the computer, work on the kernel, work on KDE, Gnome, do something which matters to everyone and not something which matters to a few thousand people LITERALLY.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I want one of these NOW. Anyone know where I can get one?
Search first, ask questions later.
...I finally know what I want for X-mas...
It looks like all the screen shots we are seeing coming from a PS2 connected to a monitor. Are there any from a PS2 running Linux while connected to a regular, not HD or HD ready, TV? I was just wondering how good it looks for those of us without an RCA MM52110.
Thanks,
Eric Garcia
That article is dated October 24th, 2001, so the question is whether that pre- or postdates the disclaimer on the PS2 Linux Kit website stating that
I for one hope this if for real, because for me, like for timothy, this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back and convinces me to purchase a PS2.
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
We were helping a buddy clean up his garage and he came across a small toolbox. He opened it up and pulled out some small gizmo with an electric plug and a handle and a little round head. He said "What is this?" To which I replied "Fuck if I know." Then he pulled out this weird crescent shaped knife with a T-shaped handle and said "how about this?" I said "Some kind of knife?"
That whole thing still gives me nightmares. Was our buddy a maniac? Were they cops? What the hell was that weird shit doing in his garage?
Oh well.
Clickety Click
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
$ dnsqr a caf.netgod.net
1 caf.netgod.net:
32 bytes, 1+0+0+0 records, response, authoritative, nxdomain
query: 1 caf.netgod.net
Does the trolltech employee have any :P
breakfast cereal recommendations??
Cause we are all waiting with baited
breath I can tell you. I really can't
wait until he tells me when Linux is a
success.
Does this mean that we'll see a region-free DVD player for PS2 Linux? :)
Games designed SPECIFICALLY for PS2 are supposed to work better on a computer that's not running a dedicated gaming platform? On a laptop, no less?
Honestly. What have you been smoking and where can I get some?
I'd rather pay a couple hundred dollars on a PS2 and Linux kit than drop 3k on a state-of-the-art laptop that is NOT going to have any new software specifically for its own design two years down the road.
It's not like anybody's going to buy a PS2 simply for the Linux patch, but it DEFINATELY makes it a far more attractive option than its Microsoft counterpart by one-upping the X-box's sole credit towards its design: Being a PC and a gaming console rolled into one.
And I'm just gonna leave Gamecube _alone_.
Karma: Non-Heinous
It is not an IA32 cpu. Most programes need to be recomplied. Note that it come with gcc.
You know Everquest is owned by Sony, would not take them much to tell them to port to Linux so that they can have it run on the PS2, so that all these Play Station users can play graphical MMORPG's.
This could be a potential Gold Mine for Sony.
Just a thought,
Matt
I think that if Sony could put their marketing behind this machine, one which runs email and web browsing plus star office as a free office suite, they will destroy the sub $1000 computer market. Why would anyone buy another desktop at $1000 if this machine does it better? For kids the games on the PS2 are easier to get up and running. For the student you just want to be able to type and save your papers, for the college kid, gran turismo AND pr0n on the same machine. For parents... I guess online banking and DVDs, you get the picture. THIS is what home computers really are. The custom made $1500 machines we build are our hotrods. These are your Honda Civics.
Finally I will have a legit reason to buy a PS2.
What a sad fucking gimp.
Hmmm...
Since the PS2 can now run Linux, could it be used as a "copy machine" for movies; set it up to just copy down that DVD and encode it, thus pissing off the RIAA et al.
I'm just as excited about this as all of you are, I've been waiting for this for a while, it'll be a cool new toy to play with. I just hope some suit doesn't ruin my fun :(.
AOL owns Netscape. Sony sees AOL as the 'killer app' for PS2 Linux. It's only a small logical jump to seeing Netscape pop up on the Playstation 2, particularly since it's going to be a key component in their online strategy alongside AOL in the console war against the next generation of Microsoft's Xbox.
HOw does that = hits the streets?
That is like saying Samsung is about to dump 500,000 alpha play stations for $125 each....
Actually, this all sort of makes sense, and looks very promising. Sony wisely alpha tests its PS2 Linux in Japan, where most of the engineering is done. After major developmental bugs are worked out, and exploring the potential Sony licenses the TiVo technology (also Linux based) for the next seven years.
Now granted, just like most huge companies the PS2 division is likely far removed from the TiVo Sony folks. But the 40HDD is just begging for PVR functionality and you can bet there are some Japanese engineers that are already chomping at the bit.
I give it three months before someone has their PS2 hacked with TiVo functionality.
A PS2 that could emulate older machines would be superb. Mame would be the prime candidate, but there are others too - notably the Spectrum, C64 and Amiga and perhaps also the ST.
Has anyone who has used one of these kits tried running any emulators on it?
Cheers,
Ian
(Anyone for Asteroids Deluxe followed by a game of Paradroid 90 followed by Dark Cloud?)
Another Site bites the dust.
Dum dum dum.
Another site bites the dust.
Heh Slashdotted..
Anyway this will be a cool idea only if developers take advantage of it.. otherwise its pretty useless.
Sony should release something like it did the for the PSOne (Yaroze) so that people can create their own games and with Linux it would allow for much more.
Cool.
Ok, after Japan theres an US Version..great!
But i live in germany...my question is:
Does anyone know if this totally cool thing will ship in germany at all and if, when?
If not, then can i just order the US-Version and play german discs or is there something like an area code or incompatible connectors i should be aware of??
Thanks for any help...id really LOVE to use the PS2 but i wont buy it before i can use it with the Linuxkit....
Lispy
I am ready to buy, already have a PS2 that works great - ok - I confess, I am not too good at many games so I cheat, I use the Gameshark ( "Gameshark" should have discounts for ARRP members :) ). We already had a dedicated DVD player so we don't use the PS2 too much for watching DVDs .
BTW the new Sony remote includes a software update that greatly improves the dvd player capabilities in the PS2 ( the older version was region selectable, not sure if the new version is the same). The only problem I had was hooking up the PS2 with the dolby digital sound, my DD receiver only had one optical input, and the dedicated dvd player was already selected becasue it had a better remote. However,recently, I learned that radio Shack has a cheap 4 way adapter for digital optical input. I already ordered extra digital cable from Gameshark ( cheaper there) and ready to go with the PS2 fully intrigated into our home entertainment system with digital sound. I am looking forward to MGS2 and others using 5.1 sound.
Linux is the icing on the cake, already happy with the PS2! Two of my favorites in one package Linux and the PS2.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
Ok, this is cool, this is too cool. I was just thinking the other day that I wished some ingenous hacker would make a ps2 port. I never expected sony to condone such an action. Biggest question, are they gonna develop an XFree86 DRI 3d module for it? If not, no biggy, if so, ohhh my god, my playstation all of a sudden does better than my desktop. That's kinda disconcerting really.
that won't help if the link is split up by slash's anti-anti-format features.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
This really reminds me of the Amiga. As some of you know the Amiga was originally going to be just a video games console. Then someone thought he could make money on it as a computer instead and added a keyboard and mouse as well as adjusting the OS. It turned out to be a very nice environment. I get the exact same feeling when I think about a PS2 with Linux and a keyboard.
Why is it so goddamn hard to save your money and not buy anything else but food and shelter?
why not?
Playing games is not all people want to do?
Do you have that little vision that you can't
see how a platform like the PS2 will be a great
LINUX box?
If you have that little vision, then by all means spend too much for your workstation.
My guess is that you're dumbfounded ness is
because you are a SHILL for microsuck
I mean, imagine buying a games console and playing games on it? You'd be shunned.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Not only can you run Linux on your Dreamcast NOW, you can also run MAME, which is something that seems to be on the Xbox owners wishlist. I was playing Defender and Donkey Kong Junior just the other night, in fact.
Oh yeah, and there are MP3 players, and an Image viewer (very handy for showing off your digital pictures.
Also, you can surf the web right OUT OF THE BOX! I don't understand why the Dreamcast hasn't been the darling of the Slashdot crowd.
The games are really good, and at $50, how could you pass this up??
You probably can't get on the site either.
A linux kit and a great doc... that's all we need :)
:)
http://www.stampede.org/~lethal/mips/docs/
demomakers, it's time to wake up
Linux PS2
Take a look at that link, only talks about Linux for Playstation's, BOTH 1 and 2. It has downloads for linux playstation kernals and other things. The site looks to be using slashcode also.
Enjoy.
CS majors, we are the geeks that run it all. Without us things die.
I heard somewhere that the PS3 would be using linux as a platform. Of course all that would be hidden away I imagine. Then again I might be misinformed, but it's an interesting idea.
I haven't been following the whole PS2/linux thing, so this may sound stupid to some. Will the PS2/linux box still be able to play PS2 games, or are you just turning it into a regular Linux box?
You should visit the japanese sites about the playstation (they are a thousand times more interesting than this article). whis is a copy of old japanese sites .... even if you dont undertand a bit of japanes , the will be truly interesting.
this showing the installation(lloks familiar?)
the same process
a session playing with sony's demos
a page with lots of links
Playstation linux user group
"We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." -- Linus
Lets hope this doesn't turn out to be like beta max of ye olde times and gets ignored by the public because sony rules this this toy with an iron fist (* i am sure someone will be able to watch pr0n with it sooner or later *).
:)
This is a new battlefield where sony already has a good foot in and decent name recognition, and M$ does not (* well unless you count msnbc or something *) hopefully sony can keep thier head out of thier arse.
Since xBox is more or less a home computer anyways i am sure microsoft already is planning to do something like this since most of the hardware is probably already there and Linux is such a big threat to them that they must thwart it in any given sector. so it won't be long before office XP is availble with IE 6 and AOL or what not further assimilating the generally ignorant public.
However i am curious how nintendo will play in all of this since they aren't making a whole heck of alot of PR on thier side of things.
I will most likely buy one in hopes that i will be able to build MAME and such to play on my tv. As far as being able to hack i am sure there will be some of that allowed but alot has changd since the commodore days so who knows what kind of policies they have in place, and besides hacking and coding is what my other computer is for
Namely, running XBoxGW on your PS2 to enable you to play Halo online. Betcha Billy G. would pitch a hissy fit *grin*
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
Ok. Finally there might be
an *available* port of mame
for the ps2...
These linux expansions could be really Sony's first experimental steps into a completely linux based ps3
It's not like you could just bring most Linux software over to it without experiencing extreme virtual memory thrashing.
For more info, visit this thread at Gamedev.net that I had with someone.
u m.asp?forum_id=39">Gamedev</A>
? ViewItem&item=1289509229">PS2 On Ebay</A>
<A href="http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/for
Also, visit this info from someone selling theirs on Ebay.
<A href="http://cgi.ca.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll
Just like everyone else, I'm really excited about being able to get a PS2 and run Linux on it. Is there a mail/email address for the appropriate place in Sony that I can write to? I'd like to tell them that as soon as they release this in the US I'll be at the store waiting in line to buy it.
Since we all spend a lot of effort writing letters to companies who do things we DON'T like, it would be nice to write letters and express support (both moral and financial) for companies that do things we DO like.
By the way, many schools seem interested in buying computers for their students/teachers. With Linux running on a PS2, these schools could now have a cheap hardware platform which can run office apps, graphics, math programs, and play DVD's and video games! What do you think kids would be more excited about, getting a free desktop running Windows or a free PS2 running Linux?
Copy the signature byte for byte and put it where the bootloader looks for it?
Signature. Not magic cookie. Copying magic cookies (e.g. "Licensed by Sega" code) is legal under Sega v. Accolade, but Xbox's BIOS probably verifies the digital signature against the actual game data using asymmetric crypto where Microsoft holds the private key, and then stores the software decryption keys in the lead-in (like DVD-Video CSS) and probably makes some other major violations of the DVD-ROM standard. How are you going to burn the DVD again?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why is it that when the Xbox was released people say it "Is only a PC disguised as a console".
:)
Now that the PS2 runs linux in the states, people are praising the console for becoming an affordable "pc".
If this was linux coming out on the xbox then people would say you can buy a more powerfull pc for the price of the xbox + keyboard + mouse when in all reality by the time you add a hard drive, floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, and monitor to your PS2 you have WELL EXCEEDED the cost of a XP 1900 system with tripple resources.
I don't get it. Do you want a console or another PC or is it only Anti Microsoft that the Xbox is a doomed "pc" and the PS2 is a great "pc"?
Hell, i got linux running on my Dreamcast, which is fine and dandy, but not going to replace my pc. More of a hack and a way to produce my own software and run it on the DC.
So yeah, its cool linux runs on another box, but this ranting and raving about how great a ps2 will be as a "pc" is about as pointless as making my Xbox a PC. They're not designed for that and for christs sake, for once the neither the Xbox or PS2 is standards compliant and both are proprietary systems so why the big fuss from such an anti-proprietary crowd and pro standard group?
Oh well, somethings i will never understand
Ditto. Sony's support people either know nothing or have been instructed to say nothing. (likely the latter)
When and how can one get a hold of one of these??
--- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all..."
Now, if they only built in something similar to the TIVO. I will never have to get up and never have to pick up a seperate remote.
http://www.technology.scee.net/cgi-bin/sceeweb1/sc ee.pl?ps2linuxint
/K
is that you'd need a separate binary for each platform the software was intended to run on. Otherwise pc game manufacturers would have been doing this for years. I don't know much of the details of the iso 9660 spec but I'm presuming when you set up a boot sector (or whatever) it points to/contains a single binary and you can't make it switch based on what hardware is booting it. So your boot loader (lilo or whatever) would only be able to run on whatever architecture it was compiled for and you would only be able to boot from that version.
Or something.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
A disk would add a lot to the cost. OTOH, a small disk, or some suitable substitute, might well be a necessity if they are going to start being a full e-mail system, net browser system, etc.
Problem is, those things won't add much cash to the pocket. So they will have to be paid for up front. I expect that whole module to be an extra cost add-on (add-in?). And wouldn't be surprised if it used proprietary hardware connections.
Under this scenario one would have the basic Playstation, and its add-on. Then one would have the hard-disk/e-mail system, and it's add ons. The basic hard-disk system would have a Linux Kernel, X Window, a browser, and not much else. Then there would be the development kit that one could add on to that. This might be priced cheaply, if Sony could count on selling any software created (or on giving it away as a valued-added extra). Otherwise it would need to cover its own cost, and then a bit more.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
As many of us know, this is a RISC R5000 (modified) processor. This is the same kind of chip you'd get in a 02 likely. Indy's don't get 294mhz. The potential for digital video editing is probably pretty good, because as I recall, the PS2 has a 32mb video ram, they're probably using opengl for the video (considering it's a R5000), and it's a fast video chip to do all those games.
What I'm wondering, is why hasn't Sony released the source code to their modified Linux kernel? Linux is definatly GPL, XFree86 is GPL, at least a lot of the code, and plenty more apps. Isn't porting considered big enough a change that it requires a source release?
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Maybe someone here could answer this question... My DSL company gave me a USB modem instead of ethernet. I currently have a basic hub and this is how I share my internet connection (using internet connection sharing in win2000). I've always wanted to know if I could use internet connection sharing with my linux box or another device like the PS2, TIVO etc. IS there a way I can do this using just a hub?
But they put it in a case the size and weight of an anchor. And added "break-aways" to the controller cords, so it's harder to pull the system off a shelf with the controller.
The PS2 is not designed to use a hard drive, and barring a serious case and controller redesign, it will never have one. Not internal, at least. A couple of memory cards is enough for 90% of gamers, so a hard drive would be expensive (for Sony, if they don't increase prices) overkill for most people.
Could sombody provide a URL?
When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
Was the case that decided it I believe. Tengen produced a version of Tetris for the NES that was unlicensed (and supposedly one of the best versions made, it's prized among collectors of old school games), and courts decided that Tengen was within its rights to make the game without licensing the technology.
Forgive me for being so stupid as i dont know much about Linux and all but i would love to have Linux on my PS2. this is just a question for anyone who might know or have tryed. Has anyone linked up a USB or firewire Harddrive to there PS2 yet? Might be a great addon for people who will be getting linux for it.
I hadn't seen anything linked in the discussion (Maybe its just that I read the base level posts) But has everyone who is interested registered their opinion with SCEA? If you haven't, make your voice known! Sony would only be bring it to the US if the marketability was high enough. Go ahead an /. http://www.ps2linux.scea.com/ now!
The HTTP Server headers for that disclaimer page say that page was last modified "Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:09:51 GMT". So, fortunately, the article is more recent.
all this talk of ps2linux being major begs the question "how major is it in Japan?" they've had it for months now. if i walk down the street in japan and bump into some average PS2 playing teens are they gonna know what the hell I'm talking about (lets assume i can speak japanese and they can speak english)? is ps2linux a big thing in japan and if not hwo can we expect it to eb a big thing here? I'm all gung-ho for ps2linux but where is it? i wnat one. hell i want a real pic. i want a ballpark price.
-
AOHell ported to Linux?
Links, please!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I was thinking this would be perfect to use as a home entertainment center. You would be able to play DVDs and play games. I am not sure if this is possible, but could you play divx movies off either cd or the hard drive? How about mp3s? You could control it through the network. But if you are able to play DVDs, divx movies, mp3s, audio cds, PS2 games, linux games and control it over the network all while being relatively cheap, and in a small form factor case. Sounds like I will deffinetely have to get one. I am not sure how copy right protection works with sony, so I am not sure if this would work.
I read an article some months ago relating to this very concept. While I can not recall or find the exact link to the article, I'll try to relate the gist of it here.
Granted I'll admit to not having spent a lot of time dealing with Linux. I like it. I like what I've seen, but I'm far from a die hard fan/user. That may change. In any case...
The Case for Linux on the PS2:
One of the issues that seems to bother Linux is a lack of driver support. This is coupled by the myriad of nearly infite hardware combinations that are presented by the nature of PC comptable machines. Who know what hardware will be in which machine. Therefore, gobs of drivers must be available to make the product work effectively. The bonus of the PS2 is that the hardware is a given. A very focused distribution of Linux can be built and bundled with the console. It can be garrunteed to run properly because you have the same hardware in umpteen million units out there. Compatibility becomes a mostly non-issue. This is not the case with my experience with Linux in the PC compatible hardware realm.
So here is a solid base of a large number of known pieces of hardware that a very stable and secure distribution of Linux can be put on. Once that happens, software (in many forms, business apps, games, etc...) becomes that much easier to produce in a workable, stable, coherent form.
Now add into the mix Sony's partnership with AOL. As much as I hate AOL, think of the rammifications. An AOL Linux distro...run on every PS2 out there. Set top web access. Not to mention mozilla or what have you if you choose not to use the Sony/AOL service.
The Linux/PS2 bundle becomes a rather inexpensive, stable, useful internet/gaming/entertainment/home productivity device.
I'm sure I left out some of the original articles ideas, and I've added some of my own. Perhaps someone can point out the source I can't rememeber. Point being, though, the Linux/PS2 combo, if played right by Sony, could be major.
'nuff said.
The US HDD is indeed internal. The ethernet & modem unit sticks out about half an inch from the back of the PS2. Any shots with and external HDD unit are early japanese PS2s, or TOOLs (not certain about that last one, as I'm still waiting for my HDD).
40GB hard drive for $35 huh? Please give me a link to your supplier as I'd like to order a few thousand at that price.
As for only having 32MB of RAM, it's not what you have, its what you can do with what you have. Case in point: Metal Gear Solid 2.
man RTFM
No manual entry for RTFM.
Absolutely fucking hilerious!!!
Did anyone ever get X running on a dreamcast?
/me runs for his life
PS2 XP release is coming soon... as soon as they can figure out how to lock you out when you switch controllers.....
MS has declared war on Sony with the X-box
anything that weakens MS is now in Sony's interest (as long as it doesn't weaken Sony more)
widespread acceptance of linux on the desktop would be just fine for Sony
this is could shoe-horn linux in underneath Windows in a lot of homes.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
Ah, shows how little I follow the console scene. So that confirms that the photo in the story was the Japanese version so we still don't know for sure what the US version looks like. If there aren't even pics yet the rumors of the price probably should be ignored as well.
I suppose a USB wireless interface would be an option as soon as one is supported. (Color me sceptical after fighting an Alcatel USB modem for my DSL line until surrendering and scrounging a SpeedTough Pro.) With the nit that a hub would be required to get keyboard, mouse and network.
Democrat delenda est
Hasnt anyone seen any ps2 benchmarks? It goes about as fast as a k6 266 running linux.. like wow lets all get really excited about beowulf clusteres of them .. you might be able to put together say 20 and make one as powerful as an xbox.
Face it the old pc you are using now is way faster than a ps2. And if they ever add a OpenGL subsystem will help provide *basic* 3d functionality and slow the benchmarks even more.. yey again.
Go back to builing your own real pcs with linux and making them settop boxes. Sony proprietry non changable AOL linux is a marketing ploy, get over it.
Of course that might just have been a typo, considering your word, "advalible".
-------
Incite and flee.
I'm glad you elected to come out of your bunker to post this. Anonymous tipsters do not amount to probable cause. Which isn't to say that I support John "My head is up my" Ashcroft. Just to say that the constitution does actually work.
:)
Now back to your AAKGHOMDB meeting
(Thats American Association for Keeping the Government the Hell Outta My Damn Business.)
Which effin street would this be? The Street of Dreams? The Street of the Future? The Street of Absolute Bullshit? Or maybe The Street of Beta Testers Which You Don't Live On?
You wanna be journalists... then you wanna be the freaking Weekly World News. Make up your minds! This headline is blatantly and patently false.
How about "... set to hit the street" or something that, oh, say, resembles the truth?
This product has not hit any freakin street except the street of "you can't get it yet".
I love you guys, but that love was sorely tested today. Dammit.
TheBitch
- I am made of meat.
From the limited material I have read, it sounds like the Xbox is not much less than a PC. Running linux on PCs wasn't too difficult, last time I checked.
Yes, there is probably something hardwired in the Xbox's bios to prevent other OSs from loading, but my bet is that there will be a simple way around it. Complex devices are very hard to make secure.
-------
Incite and flee.
with such a price/performance ratio, what are the limitations that would affect the ability to hook up many PS2s to form a cluster?
I already cant wait for TuxRacer to be ported to PS2... the ice will be... so... real...
That would be great, i bet til march prices for the PS2 have dropped even further. Maybe i could use this thing as network router too. Endless possibilities...;-)
Lispy
"The gist of it was that EA would get to make as many games as it wanted - something Nintendo had not offered them - and a reduction in licensing fees. Sega said no. It planned to impose a restrictive contract on EA just as it had done its other licensees, one that echoed similar Nintendo arrangements. Hawkins had anticipated this, however, and pulled a one-two sucker punch on Sega. Acting on his direction, EA's negotiators brusquely informed Sega of America that it didn't have that kind of clout to throw around; furthermore, EA had already reverse engineered the console and knew how to manufacture its own unlicensed Sega cartridges."
". In response to EA's actions, Sega developed a new security system for the Genesis and quietly incorporated it into the system boot ROM starting with the 1991 production batches. Sega called this proprietary code the TradeMark Security System (TMSS). In essence, it was a simplified version of the 10NES lockout chip that Nintendo had used in the NES. Sega had elected not to go to the 10NES route because they felt that a complete lockout solution was needless overkill. Their solution, the TMSS, was based on very simple principles of intellectual property law. A piece of code burned into the Genesis boot ROM would look for a header code that was supposed to be part of every Genesis program stored in cartridge format. If the header code contained certain unique characteristics, then it was a legitimately licensed Sega product. If the TMSS did not find what it sought, then it would refuse to boot up the system. If the system booted correctly, then the TMSS would display the phrase PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD. on the screen for a few seconds before running the program contained inside the cartridge. Both pieces of code, the one in the TMSS and the correct cartridge header code, were copyrighted Sega property. The TMSS also generated a trademark display every time it was activated, that being the Sega name itself. In essence, the TMSS was a double tripwire for anybody trying to produce unlicensed Genesis cartridges. If you made an unlicensed cartridge that activated the TMSS, then you were in violation of both copyright and trademark law. If you could figure out a way to get your game running without tripping the TMSS, then you were legally in the clear."
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
dsie fucking sucks die
Start Nov-24-01 15:28:03 PST
End Nov-29-01 15:28:03 PST
$66.00
This Sega Dreamcast was purchased in July and is good as new. Dreamcast comes with:
2 Sega Controllers
1 Sega Virtual Memory Unit
1 Performance Memory Card
1 Sega Keyboard
Phone Cord
All of which are in excellent condition. Memory cards still have memory files on them including high level Phantasy Star Online characters. If interested in a complete listing of files on cards email brassarj@purdue.edu .
System will be shipped fist class mail unless buyer has another preference. Will accept payments by ebay payments or check.
I could be wrong and over-the-top but, to me, it's pretty obvious what Sony pretends to do with all this, since the whole purpose of Linux (Open Source/accessibility) is disrespected in not revealing any specifications to the PS2 bootstrap.
:]) and ultimately sell more.
It's a sad and vile attempt to persuade Linux fans into thinking a PS2 is better than an XBox (which it isn't and you extremist anti-MS freaks know that
Microlimp corporation announces the Microlimp implant! From now on, you will be able to monitor the world from your own mind! Microlimp implant broadcasts directly into your brain using a power frequency devoted specifically to you! Not only will you be able to monitor your own bowel movements, but you will respond to the movements around you! Imagine, "Harry, I loved the last movement, can we try another one?" Or, "Yeoww, cute kitty, that was a good one!"
Results may vary. If you see these symptoms, see your doctor. In some cases you may try placing foil around your head to block the "frequency".