where suddenly it's ok to dehumanise other people as long as they belong to a different social or ethnic group
Dude, that didn't start with Trump...
Didn't say it did. But he's taking in that direction a lot stronger than any previous western leader since WW2. We need to be vigilant as anyone who knows history knows this direction never ends well.
Europe is great for rich folks and conservatives: lower taxes, less regulations,
Yeah sure...
I think the US and Western Europe are politically and economically pretty similar: they are highly developed democracies with massive social welfare systems, highly educated workers, low crime rates, and good social services.
Similar when compared to say Libya or Myanmar, but not so much when you only focus on 'like' nations
As a comparison of the top 38 economies (OECD), here's how the US is doing:
Life Expectancy 27/38
Educational Attainment 7/38
Years in Education 22/38
Homicide Rate 33/38
Working Hours 28/38
Voter Turnout 22/38
etc
If this was the World Cup the USA wouldn't make it past the first round. This should be concerning when you consider how much money is being spent.
I've lived in so-called 'socialist'** countries that hit #1 on some of these measures. How does that fit in with you 'thesis'?
Has the study been replicated? Have the conclusions been replicated?
Sort of. WW2 Germany was a good example of how normal regular people changed their behaviour to an inhumane level based on not much more than political inference. Donald Trump (yeah yeah I know) is actually having a similar effect where suddenly it's ok to dehumanise other people as long as they belong to a different social or ethnic group. I can't recall any other Western leader post WW2 promoting such despicable behaviour.
So yeah, I'll probably get modded troll for this, but the pattern of regular people suddenly deciding it's ok to dehumanise others to the point where they are tortured or killed is a thing that has plenty of examples. The key lesson is that it can happen any where at any time so we must all be vigilant lest we repeat history's mistakes.
When you were at college did you have a section on the noticeboard for ride shares?
Your experience should be the standard that all shall live by. Cool story....
Do you think you can ignore food hygiene regulations by calling your restaurant a meal share and having an app?
You mean like how kids sell cakes and lemonade on a street stall? Or people donate food to others in need? I had a friend over last night for dinner and we shared a meal. OMG regulations are being broken!!! Lock them up!!!!
You do realise that the law is a living process that evolves and responds to its environment? The law will adapt to Uber type services, regardless of your personal problem with the phrasing used.
The best healthcare systems in the world are in the US, Europe, Japan, and Singapore. None of those are "socialist".
You just said the US was socialist because it spends the most public money on health. You can't have it both ways.
Socialists have been making that point for more than a century;
Cool story...
it's bullshit.
Because?
Socialism results in massive corruption, economic failure, dictatorships, and eventually mass murder, each and every time. Those consequences are clearly unintended, but they are inevitable.
http://www.lmfgtfy.com/?q=soci... Most of these have higher standards of living and lower crime rates than the US. Cognitive dissonance much?
Under what legal theory would Western Union be responsible for the content of the messages it carries?
Does this mean that I can sue my phone company if...
I didn't even RTFA, but it says it right there in TFS "Western Union admitted it knew some of its employees had conspired with scam artists to bilk people out of money and had failed to fix the problem"
Are your phone company employees participating in those phone scams? This is the difference.
Unlikely. It could, but since we don't understand how human intelligence, including leaps of reason and intuition that can lead to incredible breakthroughs, I'm not too sure. Time will tell.
So either AI does our jobs for us, or we continue to do it. In both scenarios the work is still being done, so I don't get your statement "Once artificial intelligence takes over in medicine, medical research will grind to a halt."
technology has made the 19th century laws obsolete.
Well, they're 20th century laws,
The first recorded taxi services were around in the 17th century. The modern taxi service which we know today was created in the 19th century.
but what do you think the point of them was?
The same as most archaic laws, to protect the wealthy and their monopolistic business practices and prevent competition.
Because, where I am, I definitely see similar problems to what caused the taxi laws to go into effect.
The biggest problems identified globally - not just 'where you are', is unreliable and illegal behaviour of taxi drivers/services and corruption. Technology solves a lot of these problems (or at least reduces the opportunity) by introducing full accountability. Drivers are more easily screened, journeys are fully tracked and auditable as are payments and feedback. There is now no need to run a taxi service as a monopoly, so why do we still have them?
Spending lots of money on public health sounds socialist on the surface
That's because it actually is a stated objective of socialism
Only if the money delivers actual healthcare. If it's simply a facade for diverting public money to your rich friends then it isn't. This is my point.
No, it is simply the inevitable and natural result of implementing the stated objectives of socialism.
This flies in the face of the facts. The best healthcare systems (ie the ones that deliver the most health to as much of the population as possible) are socialist.
As we've already established, corruption is neither socialist or capitalist, it is a problem of poor transparency and accountability.
The most successful systems tend to pick and choose the best qualities of both capitalism and socialism for the best outcomes.
The wiki link talks about ideology, not outcomes.
Which is point. America is ideology focused. Everything is based on the bible or the constitution or other 'ideals' rather than practical outcomes. This is what makes it 'extreme' rather than moderate.
Some of the best developers I know, I wouldn't trust them to set up a basic PC for me.
In Web services land you don't need to know how to setup a PC. IaaS and Paas has eliminated the needs for these skills (unless you work at an IaaS or PaaS provider.
Ok - so here's the thing. Developers should have a firm understanding of OS maintenance, firewalls, networking, security, and all that good stuff.
What is this 2003? Devops is usually used in web services/microservices/cloud type environments where you don't care about that stuff. Infra is so last decade, have you heard of AWS or Azure?
Didi like a lot of Chinese companies seem to benefit from a lot of protectionism in China to grow and evolve. Surely this is giving them an unfair advantage when they decide to jump into other markets?
Evolution is unfair by it's nature. This is why we need smart policy makers to stay ahead of the game, not a tangerine blowhard who behaves like a baby.
They're a taxi service skirting labor laws...It bothers me to see the way mega corps can so easily shape are narratives.
So you want to choose the narrative for us?
In my own mind it's both. Some drivers are full time time, and for them they are simply an improved much better taxi service that outdated laws have failed to recognise. The law will catch-up soon and then you can rest easy.
For the rest, they are part time ride share type drivers. I have a few friends who are registered drivers and this is how they use the sevice. Again the law will catch up soon and recognise the technology has made the 19th century laws obsolete.
We've already had draft bills here which would see casual driver (less than a certain amount of hours per week) treated as ride share, and full timers treated as Taxis. So these current problems are not unsolvable.
This is how 'non-dense' people tackle these types of things, with solutions rather than simply complaining..
Corruption affects both ends of the political spectrum
We agree there. And we also agree that Medicare/Medicaid is a corrupt policy ("big medicine/pharma/insurance getting fat on the public purse", your words). Now, in support of the statement that the US is "very rightwing and right extremist", you described the corrupt nature of Medicare/Medicaid. Since corruption is, as you point out, a feature of both ends of the political spectrum, it logically doesn't tell us whether Medicare/Medicaid is left wing or right wing by your own criteria.
Right I think we're on the same page again, except I didn't say it was either. Your response was to Johnaw, which I merely commented that spending lots of money on public services isn't necessarily socialist. The key here is in the actual definition and the perceived definition (which I've also pointed out)
To explain, Spending lots of money on public health sounds socialist on the surface, but if all that money goes to your rich mates instead of the people who need it, then it's actually capitalist (one of the definitions of right wing is social stratification ie inequality, which is what the current public health system is in the US. Despite spending tonnes of cash on it, the rich get a *LOT* more benefit out of it than the poor.
So, you still have provided no convincing argument for the assertion that the US is "very rightwing and right extremist".
I pointed you to a wiki link that has all the definitions. Economics, social stratification (inequality), Nationalism, Populism, Religion etc is all much more extreme in the US than most other OECD nations.
You're saying that they have the $$$ to pay for it up front, that they don't get loans from banks and pay them off over a decade or two as the solar farm generates $$$ to pay them with? Color me skeptical...
The cool thing about solar is you don't need big industrial sized farms requiring large investment. Most of the Solar in my state is generated from residential housing which home owners installed themselves and feed back surplus into the grid. A $5k investment isn't much when the average house price in my city is over $1M.
The economics may differ where you live, but that's the point. You don't need a one size fits all approach. If Solar provides only 25% of overall demand it will have a net positive effect on the whole system
What are those actual costs? In my country (Not USA) it's a 5 year payback time.
Sure is. Ask people in Illinois and Georgia how that's working out, it was a big enough issue that people in surrounding states tried not to cause that problem by limiting the government intervention via FIT and requiring a larger upfront cost.
What are those costs exactly? Solar panels are solid state, the maintenance is almost zero.
You mean besides that you have one of two designs: Panels stuck in a static line, and those that track. The first are nearly no maintenance except that they require frequent cleaning, especially in the countryside. The second requires maintenance for all those moving parts, inspections for wiring, and so on.
So you have no costs then? Sounds like words coming out of a hat....
You said, in effect, "this can't be socialism because it has corrupt and inefficient outcomes".
No I didn't. If you're unsure try asking rather than tell me what you think I'm thinking. It's very right wing and authoritarian to tell others what they are thinking. I get the message
Which would suggest those policies are actually less socialist, since the more socialist a policy is, the more corrupt and the worse the results tend to be.
Again, you're just talking stuff. Come back when you figure out how base your claims on some actual data.
Corruption affects both ends of the political spectrum, your statements make it clear you are unable to have an objective view of such things.
"The infrastructure" is the solar farm itself. That will be difficult to pay for when supply-and-demand forces the wholesale price of electricity for those hours that the sun shines to a penny or two per KwH.
It only gets to 'a penny or two' once you have the solar infrastructure in place. Once it's there it's paid for and the per kwH price will include maintenance and upgrades just like any other power source..
Maybe you could tell me where I went wrong? The King is the govt, the cousin is big medicine/pharma/insurance getting fat on the public purse while the people are the peasants not getting a seat at the table.
So just like socialism then.
Depends on what your definition of socialism is. In many other countries with 'socialist' policies, they spend less on health and education and get better results.
But what are facts...
No. I actually emigrated from Europe, so I can tell you from first hand experience that you don't know what you're talking about.
Cool Story. Let me know when you finish high school....
Slashdot Mirror
Dude, that didn't start with Trump...
Didn't say it did. But he's taking in that direction a lot stronger than any previous western leader since WW2. We need to be vigilant as anyone who knows history knows this direction never ends well.
Europe is great for rich folks and conservatives: lower taxes, less regulations,
Yeah sure...
I think the US and Western Europe are politically and economically pretty similar: they are highly developed democracies with massive social welfare systems, highly educated workers, low crime rates, and good social services.
Similar when compared to say Libya or Myanmar, but not so much when you only focus on 'like' nations
As a comparison of the top 38 economies (OECD), here's how the US is doing:
Life Expectancy 27/38
Educational Attainment 7/38
Years in Education 22/38
Homicide Rate 33/38
Working Hours 28/38
Voter Turnout 22/38
etc
If this was the World Cup the USA wouldn't make it past the first round. This should be concerning when you consider how much money is being spent.
I've lived in so-called 'socialist'** countries that hit #1 on some of these measures. How does that fit in with you 'thesis'?
Has the study been replicated? Have the conclusions been replicated?
Sort of. WW2 Germany was a good example of how normal regular people changed their behaviour to an inhumane level based on not much more than political inference. Donald Trump (yeah yeah I know) is actually having a similar effect where suddenly it's ok to dehumanise other people as long as they belong to a different social or ethnic group. I can't recall any other Western leader post WW2 promoting such despicable behaviour.
So yeah, I'll probably get modded troll for this, but the pattern of regular people suddenly deciding it's ok to dehumanise others to the point where they are tortured or killed is a thing that has plenty of examples. The key lesson is that it can happen any where at any time so we must all be vigilant lest we repeat history's mistakes.
When you were at college did you have a section on the noticeboard for ride shares?
Your experience should be the standard that all shall live by. Cool story....
Do you think you can ignore food hygiene regulations by calling your restaurant a meal share and having an app?
You mean like how kids sell cakes and lemonade on a street stall? Or people donate food to others in need? I had a friend over last night for dinner and we shared a meal. OMG regulations are being broken!!! Lock them up!!!!
You do realise that the law is a living process that evolves and responds to its environment? The law will adapt to Uber type services, regardless of your personal problem with the phrasing used.
The best healthcare systems in the world are in the US, Europe, Japan, and Singapore. None of those are "socialist".
You just said the US was socialist because it spends the most public money on health. You can't have it both ways.
Socialists have been making that point for more than a century;
Cool story...
it's bullshit.
Because?
Socialism results in massive corruption, economic failure, dictatorships, and eventually mass murder, each and every time. Those consequences are clearly unintended, but they are inevitable.
http://www.lmfgtfy.com/?q=soci...
Most of these have higher standards of living and lower crime rates than the US. Cognitive dissonance much?
Under what legal theory would Western Union be responsible for the content of the messages it carries?
Does this mean that I can sue my phone company if...
I didn't even RTFA, but it says it right there in TFS "Western Union admitted it knew some of its employees had conspired with scam artists to bilk people out of money and had failed to fix the problem"
Are your phone company employees participating in those phone scams? This is the difference.
Unlikely. It could, but since we don't understand how human intelligence, including leaps of reason and intuition that can lead to incredible breakthroughs, I'm not too sure. Time will tell.
So either AI does our jobs for us, or we continue to do it. In both scenarios the work is still being done, so I don't get your statement "Once artificial intelligence takes over in medicine, medical research will grind to a halt."
Oh the irony. Why don't you go back, rethink your original reply, and come up with something constructive to my point. I'll wait.
I'm still waiting for that data to back up your claim. I'll assume after so many attempts that you don't have them as I expected. Thanks for playing.
Well, they're 20th century laws,
The first recorded taxi services were around in the 17th century. The modern taxi service which we know today was created in the 19th century.
but what do you think the point of them was?
The same as most archaic laws, to protect the wealthy and their monopolistic business practices and prevent competition.
Because, where I am, I definitely see similar problems to what caused the taxi laws to go into effect.
The biggest problems identified globally - not just 'where you are', is unreliable and illegal behaviour of taxi drivers/services and corruption. Technology solves a lot of these problems (or at least reduces the opportunity) by introducing full accountability. Drivers are more easily screened, journeys are fully tracked and auditable as are payments and feedback. There is now no need to run a taxi service as a monopoly, so why do we still have them?
That's because it actually is a stated objective of socialism
Only if the money delivers actual healthcare. If it's simply a facade for diverting public money to your rich friends then it isn't. This is my point.
No, it is simply the inevitable and natural result of implementing the stated objectives of socialism.
This flies in the face of the facts. The best healthcare systems (ie the ones that deliver the most health to as much of the population as possible) are socialist.
As we've already established, corruption is neither socialist or capitalist, it is a problem of poor transparency and accountability.
The most successful systems tend to pick and choose the best qualities of both capitalism and socialism for the best outcomes.
The wiki link talks about ideology, not outcomes.
Which is point. America is ideology focused. Everything is based on the bible or the constitution or other 'ideals' rather than practical outcomes. This is what makes it 'extreme' rather than moderate.
Ride sharing is nothing to do with whether it's part- or full time.
It's a ride share if the driver was going there anyway.
Says you. The law (according to the drafts I've heard about) will say different.
Some of the best developers I know, I wouldn't trust them to set up a basic PC for me.
In Web services land you don't need to know how to setup a PC. IaaS and Paas has eliminated the needs for these skills (unless you work at an IaaS or PaaS provider.
Ok - so here's the thing. Developers should have a firm understanding of OS maintenance, firewalls, networking, security, and all that good stuff.
What is this 2003? Devops is usually used in web services/microservices/cloud type environments where you don't care about that stuff. Infra is so last decade, have you heard of AWS or Azure?
Didi like a lot of Chinese companies seem to benefit from a lot of protectionism in China to grow and evolve. Surely this is giving them an unfair advantage when they decide to jump into other markets?
Evolution is unfair by it's nature. This is why we need smart policy makers to stay ahead of the game, not a tangerine blowhard who behaves like a baby.
They're a taxi service skirting labor laws...It bothers me to see the way mega corps can so easily shape are narratives.
So you want to choose the narrative for us?
In my own mind it's both. Some drivers are full time time, and for them they are simply an improved much better taxi service that outdated laws have failed to recognise. The law will catch-up soon and then you can rest easy.
For the rest, they are part time ride share type drivers. I have a few friends who are registered drivers and this is how they use the sevice. Again the law will catch up soon and recognise the technology has made the 19th century laws obsolete.
We've already had draft bills here which would see casual driver (less than a certain amount of hours per week) treated as ride share, and full timers treated as Taxis. So these current problems are not unsolvable.
This is how 'non-dense' people tackle these types of things, with solutions rather than simply complaining..
Once artificial intelligence takes over in medicine, medical research will grind to a halt.
Won't the AI do the research for us?
So you have no costs then? Sounds like words coming out of a hat....
No, because only someone who doesn't understand that everything costs money would make an inane post like that.
Blah, blah, deflect, avoid, distract
The silence is deafening...
My guess is that you aren't thinking at all and just repeat phrases you have picked up, like "very rightwing and right extremist".
If you go back through the thread, I didn't bring it up.
We agree there. And we also agree that Medicare/Medicaid is a corrupt policy ("big medicine/pharma/insurance getting fat on the public purse", your words). Now, in support of the statement that the US is "very rightwing and right extremist", you described the corrupt nature of Medicare/Medicaid. Since corruption is, as you point out, a feature of both ends of the political spectrum, it logically doesn't tell us whether Medicare/Medicaid is left wing or right wing by your own criteria.
Right I think we're on the same page again, except I didn't say it was either. Your response was to Johnaw, which I merely commented that spending lots of money on public services isn't necessarily socialist. The key here is in the actual definition and the perceived definition (which I've also pointed out)
To explain, Spending lots of money on public health sounds socialist on the surface, but if all that money goes to your rich mates instead of the people who need it, then it's actually capitalist (one of the definitions of right wing is social stratification ie inequality, which is what the current public health system is in the US. Despite spending tonnes of cash on it, the rich get a *LOT* more benefit out of it than the poor.
So, you still have provided no convincing argument for the assertion that the US is "very rightwing and right extremist".
I pointed you to a wiki link that has all the definitions. Economics, social stratification (inequality), Nationalism, Populism, Religion etc is all much more extreme in the US than most other OECD nations.
The Overton Window
This the first time I've heard of this phrase. Thanks for the tip.
You're saying that they have the $$$ to pay for it up front, that they don't get loans from banks and pay them off over a decade or two as the solar farm generates $$$ to pay them with? Color me skeptical...
The cool thing about solar is you don't need big industrial sized farms requiring large investment. Most of the Solar in my state is generated from residential housing which home owners installed themselves and feed back surplus into the grid. A $5k investment isn't much when the average house price in my city is over $1M.
The economics may differ where you live, but that's the point. You don't need a one size fits all approach. If Solar provides only 25% of overall demand it will have a net positive effect on the whole system
What are those actual costs? In my country (Not USA) it's a 5 year payback time.
Sure is. Ask people in Illinois and Georgia how that's working out, it was a big enough issue that people in surrounding states tried not to cause that problem by limiting the government intervention via FIT and requiring a larger upfront cost.
What are those costs exactly? Solar panels are solid state, the maintenance is almost zero.
You mean besides that you have one of two designs: Panels stuck in a static line, and those that track. The first are nearly no maintenance except that they require frequent cleaning, especially in the countryside. The second requires maintenance for all those moving parts, inspections for wiring, and so on.
So you have no costs then? Sounds like words coming out of a hat....
You said, in effect, "this can't be socialism because it has corrupt and inefficient outcomes".
No I didn't. If you're unsure try asking rather than tell me what you think I'm thinking. It's very right wing and authoritarian to tell others what they are thinking. I get the message
Which would suggest those policies are actually less socialist, since the more socialist a policy is, the more corrupt and the worse the results tend to be.
Again, you're just talking stuff. Come back when you figure out how base your claims on some actual data.
Corruption affects both ends of the political spectrum, your statements make it clear you are unable to have an objective view of such things.
"The infrastructure" is the solar farm itself. That will be difficult to pay for when supply-and-demand forces the wholesale price of electricity for those hours that the sun shines to a penny or two per KwH.
It only gets to 'a penny or two' once you have the solar infrastructure in place. Once it's there it's paid for and the per kwH price will include maintenance and upgrades just like any other power source..
So just like socialism then.
Depends on what your definition of socialism is. In many other countries with 'socialist' policies, they spend less on health and education and get better results.
But what are facts...
No. I actually emigrated from Europe, so I can tell you from first hand experience that you don't know what you're talking about.
Cool Story. Let me know when you finish high school....