But the burden is upon those who claim it will be successful. I can criticise those claims, without having ever seen one.
No, I haven't seen an Ipad. But I haven't seen most other tech products, just as most Apple fans haven't tried every other single tech product out there. But that doesn't stop them making claims about how Apple products are best, and for some reason we still have endless coverage over the unreleased iStale... You're right, I wish the speculation and media coverage would stop until (if) the thing is actually released. Then, it can have a single article, at most, just as happens with any other tech product.
The top of the line iPad is not even twice the price of an unsubsidised iPhone. It's pretty cheap for what you get.
Right, so it's more expensive than the unsubsidised Iphone, which is already pretty expensive. What does it add to justify that price? What does it do better than netbooks at a fraction of the price? Or the other tablets out there?
But even without this, there are so many other "pads" out there, that this is silly. For example, where was this controversy over the Fujitsu iPAD? Or the various other pads. ThinkPad? Newton MessagePad? MS Notepad?
Think, Message and Note are more significant than simply "i". Furthermore, messagepad and notepad are pre-existing words.
Fujitsu Ipad is stupid too. If we got daily stories all over the media about that, we'd be ridiculing that too. But since it's only Apple that gets an absurdly disproportionate coverage even when it's vaporware (remember, it's not even released yet), that's the one people are mocking.
The brilliance of the iPhone OS is that it's designed specifically for multitouch. You're not just using your finger (or stylus) as a mouse,
What happened to "One mouse button is better"? Adding complex gestures doesn't necessarily make things easier - plus you have the downside of a less accurate touchscreen (capacitive versus resistive).
with handwriting recognition thrown in for good measure.
Welcome to 2002. What portable touch device doesn't have that these days? And I'd rather do that with a stylus, not my finger.
Okay, we've heard the "It's an appliance" claim about a hundred times now, but what does it actually mean? How does that justify spending more money, for something that does less than other products already available (and not merely announced vaporware)?
But yes, I agree. Apple isn't interested in making computers anymore, and therefore their products should not be considered for the markets of portable computers or smartphones.
The 5800 has a choice of stylus of finger, and it has handwriting recognition as one of the methods of input. I like using the stylus, and would hate not to have the choice.
Sadly you don't hear about it, because Slashdot and the rest of the media would rather give advertising to Apple, than mention the number 1 company in the market (Nokia).
Indeed, even on this article - a rare coverage of a non-Apple product, yet we still have the obligitary Apple mention. "Ipad alternative" my arse. The Ipad wasn't the first tablet, and it hasn't even been released yet. This, and the Ipad, are "Archos alternatives".
(If I tick the box to disable Slashdot advertising, will it clear all the Apple advertising too?)
Lots of people want to be able to use a computer without having to use one.... These are the people this type of device is designed for.
This new device - if it's ever released - is a computer, so it fails your requirement.
And there are other tablets already around that aren't vaporware, you just won't hear about them when places like Slashdot and the BBC are giving advertising to Apple (how much are they being paid, I wonder?)
AIUI, the kind of screen needed for multitouch is also less accurate, so there's a trade-off. It's not all nicer.
And I want a device that works, rather than having to memorise complex justifies. "One mouse button is simpler" -this is even more true on portable devices.
I have the same views regarding what I want from a portable device, but please let's not give free advertising to Apple - it's bad enough that now every phone is referred to as an "Iphone clone". Tablets - and indeed phones - existed years before Apple decided to play catch-up.
I propose that the Ipad now be referred to as an Apple "Archos clone". And the Iphone can be an Apple Nokia clone.
You can get a netbook for a fraction of the price - these are colour devices easily portable, that also are fully fledged computers, rather than the basic Islate which can't even master multitasking (is this the early 1980s, or something?), so I don't see how it's good value for money. Even if you prefer a tablet to a real keyboard, there are cheaper alternatives around.
And even for touch screen tablets, Apple did not invent this.
I did wonder how long it would be before some clueless idiot claimed this as an "Apple first" - for heaven's sake, the thing hasn't even been released yet!
It's bad enough that we get daily Iphone stories. Now I see that, even when the damn thing hasn't even been released, we're going to get daily stories about the Istale, or whatever it's called (it's hard to tell real news from vaporware). Meanwhile, actual tablets that have been released don't get a single story whatsoever!
Slashdot was once a place for geeks who knew about technology. Now it's rumours and false claims hyping Apple.
I agree - I do hope that whoever wrote that test isn't a programmer, as carrying out the actions as you read them is perfectly sensible, and step 5 is just paradoxical.
Now, if step one said "Read all these instructions first before performing any of them" they might have a point. But even there - why should step 5 take priority over steps 2-4?
Except products more open than Apple's do exist (lots of them!) And 90+% of people are buying those products. No one is asking for things for free, so you can take that straw man elsewhere.
If we're going to have hype about Apple splashed all over the media as if it was election day, with people saying how wonderful Apple are, then people equally have the right to voice their criticisms of that product.
I agree with all your criticisms of Apple - but please, can we drop the association with people's sexuality, and the childish claims that gay people would want to use their shitty products, and because they supposedly like being trendy? (Last time I looked, being straight was more "trendy" than anything else...)
If they use such a trivial and obvious naming scheme, that's their own fault.
And this is a good thing for trademarks to work this way. We allow existing words, and trivial variations of them, to be trademarks, but it is good to have a deterrent against companies doing this in such a broad and systematic matter.
An interesting idea, but it does seem to me it would make it harder to know who's in the wrong. If a company sells an mp3 player called an "iPod", but without trying to claim that you're getting a specific Apple Ipod model, are they guilty of anything? What if they call themselves "Apple", or call the product "Apple iPod"?
Plus, isn't fraud a criminal issue, which would make it more serious?
Complexity minimized by iPad/iPhone OS: file systems file extensions directory structures minimized peripheral device considerations minimization of virii due to app store
All of those things are just headaches for the average user.
And what phone has all of those? Most of them don't. If you don't want Windows (which I presume you allude to), there's plenty of alternatives, most of them more popular than Apple, and cheaper too.
So the Ipad is less features for money money? Right.
The iPad is a device which makes computing VERY simple
How? Have you even used one?
These answers aren't even consistent - the other guy alleges that the Ihype isn't a computer at all.
Is it going to be a tinkering geeks favorite? No, of course not. Is it likely to be well received by it's intended audience (lay users), yes most likely.
Then Apple have shot themselves in the foot. With the sole exception of the Ipod, it's only among geeks that Apple have popularity. The geeks delude themselves into thinking that Apple are the number one company (good god, what has this place become? I remember when people were concerned about Microsoft, and promoted open systems in opposition. Long have those days gone, here on Appledot). Yet the reality is that most people are buying phones from other companies.
But if it's just an appliance, you might as well get one of many cheaper cut down appliances.
Your post is just speculations on what you think various devices are like, and based on some misinformation about how popular Apple actually are in the phone market. But since it's pro-Apple, that's an instant ticket to +5 "insightful".
the iPad is perfect for your mom or grandmother to finally get on the internet, email, download books, etc. without needing a part-time geek to hand hold them through the process each time.
Finally? Portable devices - including those that are "appliances" - have been around already, and cheaper too in most cases.
Of course, I see you assert that the Kindle is awful based on a single data point, and then conclude without having seen an Ipad that it must be better, than all other appliances. Let's have evidence, not speculation.
I would say a majority just want to pick up the device and the device works. This is the primary reason the iPhone has done so well and is likely why the iPad will do really well.
The Iphone hasn't done "so well", it's done okay. The vast majority of phones, you can pick up, and the device works (why wouldn't it? Take it back to the store if it's so defective - is that the best you can say of Apple, that it works?), and that includes the 95+% of the phone market that isn't Apple.
Why would a device that's less useful than an Iphone, bigger, and more expensive, do better?
People "choose" to buy products with DRM too, by that logic.
Though yes, thankfully you are right that it is a choice for Apple, as they are such a minority of the market. But given all the free advertising they get, it is worth being vigilant: what if the Apple-only coverage that the media have adopted leads to Apple becoming the only choice? Or what if other companies adopt their model?
We need to speak up against poor computing solutions, especially if everyone else is just hyping it as "OMG It's Apple It Must Be Great".
God yes, obviously no one ever did VoIP on a mobile device before Apple allowed it. Now that the less than 5% of Iphone users can do it, that's the real tipping point!
Nah, it's retro 80s with the iBrick! Now it'll be cool again to hold a ridiculously sized device to your ear just to talk to someone, now that Apple are doing it!
No they can't, because most phones let you run whatever applications you want, from any download site (you know, how it used to be, with old fashioned desktop and laptop computers, remember that?) without needing permission from the manufacturer.
Agreed - but also blame the places that give media coverage almost solely to the Iphone, whilst ignoring the many (more popular) products like those from Nokia that don't follow this model. Then we get Slashvertisements like this, where Apple are then wowed for removing these restrictions.
My 5800 phone recently added kinetic scrolling in a firmware update - shall we have a front page story for every little thing like that, I wonder...
Slashdot Mirror
But the burden is upon those who claim it will be successful. I can criticise those claims, without having ever seen one.
No, I haven't seen an Ipad. But I haven't seen most other tech products, just as most Apple fans haven't tried every other single tech product out there. But that doesn't stop them making claims about how Apple products are best, and for some reason we still have endless coverage over the unreleased iStale... You're right, I wish the speculation and media coverage would stop until (if) the thing is actually released. Then, it can have a single article, at most, just as happens with any other tech product.
The top of the line iPad is not even twice the price of an unsubsidised iPhone. It's pretty cheap for what you get.
Right, so it's more expensive than the unsubsidised Iphone, which is already pretty expensive. What does it add to justify that price? What does it do better than netbooks at a fraction of the price? Or the other tablets out there?
But even without this, there are so many other "pads" out there, that this is silly. For example, where was this controversy over the Fujitsu iPAD? Or the various other pads. ThinkPad? Newton MessagePad? MS Notepad?
Think, Message and Note are more significant than simply "i". Furthermore, messagepad and notepad are pre-existing words.
Fujitsu Ipad is stupid too. If we got daily stories all over the media about that, we'd be ridiculing that too. But since it's only Apple that gets an absurdly disproportionate coverage even when it's vaporware (remember, it's not even released yet), that's the one people are mocking.
The brilliance of the iPhone OS is that it's designed specifically for multitouch. You're not just using your finger (or stylus) as a mouse,
What happened to "One mouse button is better"? Adding complex gestures doesn't necessarily make things easier - plus you have the downside of a less accurate touchscreen (capacitive versus resistive).
with handwriting recognition thrown in for good measure.
Welcome to 2002. What portable touch device doesn't have that these days? And I'd rather do that with a stylus, not my finger.
Okay, we've heard the "It's an appliance" claim about a hundred times now, but what does it actually mean? How does that justify spending more money, for something that does less than other products already available (and not merely announced vaporware)?
But yes, I agree. Apple isn't interested in making computers anymore, and therefore their products should not be considered for the markets of portable computers or smartphones.
The 5800 has a choice of stylus of finger, and it has handwriting recognition as one of the methods of input. I like using the stylus, and would hate not to have the choice.
Sadly you don't hear about it, because Slashdot and the rest of the media would rather give advertising to Apple, than mention the number 1 company in the market (Nokia).
Indeed, even on this article - a rare coverage of a non-Apple product, yet we still have the obligitary Apple mention. "Ipad alternative" my arse. The Ipad wasn't the first tablet, and it hasn't even been released yet. This, and the Ipad, are "Archos alternatives".
(If I tick the box to disable Slashdot advertising, will it clear all the Apple advertising too?)
Lots of people want to be able to use a computer without having to use one. ... These are the people this type of device is designed for.
This new device - if it's ever released - is a computer, so it fails your requirement.
And there are other tablets already around that aren't vaporware, you just won't hear about them when places like Slashdot and the BBC are giving advertising to Apple (how much are they being paid, I wonder?)
AIUI, the kind of screen needed for multitouch is also less accurate, so there's a trade-off. It's not all nicer.
And I want a device that works, rather than having to memorise complex justifies. "One mouse button is simpler" -this is even more true on portable devices.
One of the other "iPad clones" may as well.
I have the same views regarding what I want from a portable device, but please let's not give free advertising to Apple - it's bad enough that now every phone is referred to as an "Iphone clone". Tablets - and indeed phones - existed years before Apple decided to play catch-up.
I propose that the Ipad now be referred to as an Apple "Archos clone". And the Iphone can be an Apple Nokia clone.
You can get a netbook for a fraction of the price - these are colour devices easily portable, that also are fully fledged computers, rather than the basic Islate which can't even master multitasking (is this the early 1980s, or something?), so I don't see how it's good value for money. Even if you prefer a tablet to a real keyboard, there are cheaper alternatives around.
And even for touch screen tablets, Apple did not invent this.
I did wonder how long it would be before some clueless idiot claimed this as an "Apple first" - for heaven's sake, the thing hasn't even been released yet!
It's bad enough that we get daily Iphone stories. Now I see that, even when the damn thing hasn't even been released, we're going to get daily stories about the Istale, or whatever it's called (it's hard to tell real news from vaporware). Meanwhile, actual tablets that have been released don't get a single story whatsoever!
Slashdot was once a place for geeks who knew about technology. Now it's rumours and false claims hyping Apple.
I agree - I do hope that whoever wrote that test isn't a programmer, as carrying out the actions as you read them is perfectly sensible, and step 5 is just paradoxical.
Now, if step one said "Read all these instructions first before performing any of them" they might have a point. But even there - why should step 5 take priority over steps 2-4?
Except products more open than Apple's do exist (lots of them!) And 90+% of people are buying those products. No one is asking for things for free, so you can take that straw man elsewhere.
If we're going to have hype about Apple splashed all over the media as if it was election day, with people saying how wonderful Apple are, then people equally have the right to voice their criticisms of that product.
I find it interesting that Apple's "Think Different" mantra is now conveniently shoved under the carpet, with them pretending it never happened...
I agree with all your criticisms of Apple - but please, can we drop the association with people's sexuality, and the childish claims that gay people would want to use their shitty products, and because they supposedly like being trendy? (Last time I looked, being straight was more "trendy" than anything else...)
They only read Slashdot, and thus were unaware of non-Apple products? ;)
If they use such a trivial and obvious naming scheme, that's their own fault.
And this is a good thing for trademarks to work this way. We allow existing words, and trivial variations of them, to be trademarks, but it is good to have a deterrent against companies doing this in such a broad and systematic matter.
An interesting idea, but it does seem to me it would make it harder to know who's in the wrong. If a company sells an mp3 player called an "iPod", but without trying to claim that you're getting a specific Apple Ipod model, are they guilty of anything? What if they call themselves "Apple", or call the product "Apple iPod"?
Plus, isn't fraud a criminal issue, which would make it more serious?
Complexity minimized by iPad/iPhone OS:
file systems
file extensions
directory structures
minimized peripheral device considerations
minimization of virii due to app store
All of those things are just headaches for the average user.
And what phone has all of those? Most of them don't. If you don't want Windows (which I presume you allude to), there's plenty of alternatives, most of them more popular than Apple, and cheaper too.
So the Ipad is less features for money money? Right.
The iPad is a device which makes computing VERY simple
How? Have you even used one?
These answers aren't even consistent - the other guy alleges that the Ihype isn't a computer at all.
Is it going to be a tinkering geeks favorite? No, of course not. Is it likely to be well received by it's intended audience (lay users), yes most likely.
Then Apple have shot themselves in the foot. With the sole exception of the Ipod, it's only among geeks that Apple have popularity. The geeks delude themselves into thinking that Apple are the number one company (good god, what has this place become? I remember when people were concerned about Microsoft, and promoted open systems in opposition. Long have those days gone, here on Appledot). Yet the reality is that most people are buying phones from other companies.
But if it's just an appliance, you might as well get one of many cheaper cut down appliances.
Your post is just speculations on what you think various devices are like, and based on some misinformation about how popular Apple actually are in the phone market. But since it's pro-Apple, that's an instant ticket to +5 "insightful".
the iPad is perfect for your mom or grandmother to finally get on the internet, email, download books, etc. without needing a part-time geek to hand hold them through the process each time.
Finally? Portable devices - including those that are "appliances" - have been around already, and cheaper too in most cases.
Of course, I see you assert that the Kindle is awful based on a single data point, and then conclude without having seen an Ipad that it must be better, than all other appliances. Let's have evidence, not speculation.
I would say a majority just want to pick up the device and the device works. This is the primary reason the iPhone has done so well and is likely why the iPad will do really well.
The Iphone hasn't done "so well", it's done okay. The vast majority of phones, you can pick up, and the device works (why wouldn't it? Take it back to the store if it's so defective - is that the best you can say of Apple, that it works?), and that includes the 95+% of the phone market that isn't Apple.
Why would a device that's less useful than an Iphone, bigger, and more expensive, do better?
People "choose" to buy products with DRM too, by that logic.
Though yes, thankfully you are right that it is a choice for Apple, as they are such a minority of the market. But given all the free advertising they get, it is worth being vigilant: what if the Apple-only coverage that the media have adopted leads to Apple becoming the only choice? Or what if other companies adopt their model?
We need to speak up against poor computing solutions, especially if everyone else is just hyping it as "OMG It's Apple It Must Be Great".
God yes, obviously no one ever did VoIP on a mobile device before Apple allowed it. Now that the less than 5% of Iphone users can do it, that's the real tipping point!
Nah, it's retro 80s with the iBrick! Now it'll be cool again to hold a ridiculously sized device to your ear just to talk to someone, now that Apple are doing it!
No they can't, because most phones let you run whatever applications you want, from any download site (you know, how it used to be, with old fashioned desktop and laptop computers, remember that?) without needing permission from the manufacturer.
Agreed - but also blame the places that give media coverage almost solely to the Iphone, whilst ignoring the many (more popular) products like those from Nokia that don't follow this model. Then we get Slashvertisements like this, where Apple are then wowed for removing these restrictions.
My 5800 phone recently added kinetic scrolling in a firmware update - shall we have a front page story for every little thing like that, I wonder...