It's also on the iPod touch, which isn't getting its time from the network (I'd be very surprised if it could). Reykjavik and zones to the east all show 31 Dec 2007 instead of the customary "Tomorrow" for those presently past-midnight WorldClock choices. All the way, that is, until Pago-Pago, Samoa, across the date line, where it is showing Today. Wellington, New Zealand is the same time modulo 24 hours, only Tomorrow, er, 31 Dec 2007 iTouch(iPod) Central Standard Time.:)
Fascinating. I've never heard anyone take this point of view before.
Well, it is not really all that exotic. If you think of the human labor as a multi-dimensional fractal, a crystal growth, if you like -- then you will agree that it is not going to hell in a handbasket -- there is ever more of it, and there is ever more potential for it, as long as the people are increasing in number and complexity. They do and they do: Finding time on your hands and finding things to do just increases the dimensionality of both human labor and the embedding space, the space of possible human labor.
What I must do in order to provide for myself and my family- that is compulsary labor. No one forces me to do any particular job, but I must do some job.
You just qualified it as compulsory labor, to distinguish it from other kinds, evidently. The original point was that the human labor is going by the way of the dodo. My point is that this is a misapprehension of reality. Now, whether you like the labor you say you have to do -- or whether you are even aware that what you do is labor -- that's neither here nor there.
Fundamentally, some fraction of what you are -- what you do -- how you interact with others -- is human labor, has that effect, is indistinguishable from human labor in its effect, whether you happen to think it is that or not. A better metric than what you yourself think of your labor is what others say it does for them, and an even better one is some sort of a thought-experiment calorimeter that measures the labor output of your existence under all conceivable interactions with the universe, under some qualification of locality.:)
Can you deny that, for most people, the number of hours they must devote to this sort of labor has decreased, and will likely continue to decrease in the future?
Yes, I can deny it. What constitutes most people? Collecting all human labor from every elegible capita, where each human is elegible for the count who survived the separation of his or her umbilical cord from Mom for 2 minutes, for example, and is still letting you us about it?
If you distribute human labor over all who come calling, it is far from evident that "for most people" the hours they must devote to laboring has decreased. Child labor is on the rise, planetwide, corellated with increasing poverty in those locales. You could even say that children working even in affluent societies are directly expressing the cultural impoverishment setting in.
Commute times are also increasing, especially if you count the time for queuing up for necessities. You are appealing from a comfortable position of being lodged on the good side of a skewed world of inequities. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing all the same.
Quite apart from that, you should consider allowing that human labor in all its manifestations, not just the compulsory, only gets compounded by the ability of the few privileged humans -- say, those who may type into/. -- to reduce doing upleasant things per unit time in order to engage in the pleasant ones. You will agree that the aggregate of such lucky souls actually labors humanly on an increasing wealth of fronts, contributing in the process an ever vaster space of things undone (not done yet == crying out for human labor, you know, the thing that was said to be getting obsolescent).
No, actually that is one point that was very correct in the article. Human labor as pointed out in the traditional sense as defined in the -communist manifesto- is actually drastically decreasing.
The amount of human labor require to "build" anything is much less than 100 years ago.
No. You are pointing at the obvious: The amount of invested human labor. The interviewee is making a different, uncareful point, that the human labor is becoming obsolescent.
This is not so. The very same dynamic which you quote, having more time, doing more things, creates more need for human labor -- more degrees of freedom, if you will, more territory ready for human labor to move in.
The human labor is exploding, as is the need for it. That is congruent with any one existing task or toil taking less of it. I never denied productivity is increasing.
The problem is how to connect available capacity for human labor to available human labor, at the same time providing for every human.
One development is the increasing obsolescence of human labor. The more production is done by machines the less human labor is needed in the production process.
I think this is shallow thinking, an illusion in progress, because "production process" is more interconnected and harder to contain in one bucket of isolated money/goods/value added than the interviewee lets on.
Human labor is always increasing because there are more humans laboring with more opportunity to labor at something, and therefore is always more needed; ie., there is a yawning and only getting wider permanent shortage of it because more things go undone, and the undonness of things in the world is only increasing -- thanks to production and creation of resources, as well as waste, want and web, and also, the loss of ecosystem and resources.
It is the displacement and barriers which come about from various turmoil, ranging from eco-calamities and wars to local economical or production hiccups that derail the effectiveness of any one human's labor, to the point of belittling or endangering the human.
The true invariant is having a unit of actual time to fill per human. What goes into it, by definition, is the human's labor and the complement of it, everything else. But even in such a binary division, the conception of free time does not respect this division: One's free time may well contribute to one's human labor.
I'm hopeful about free software, as adding flow capacity to the human exchange manifold, but I don't buy the obsolescence of human labor.
Those of us who read into the record, as it were, creative stuff, not keeping copies, will find it wonderful to have a chance to recover some. With
14k posts in Google Groups, I feel on the whole happy to have the chance to be embarrassed by the past... and find things lost poems.
segway's navigation invokes steering a boat
on
This is IT?
·
· Score: 1
Segway makes it obvious what's starboard and what's port and
uses those categories intuitively, avoiding "left" and "right"
or any arbitrary conventions reminiscent of the control layout
in cars, or drive-on-the-left/right conventions.
the only green thing is the GUI display with the human face, and it
is to the right, not center, or starboard. The starboard/starboard
wingtip light is green.
the only red thing is the on/off switch, and it is to the left, or port.
The port side/port side wingtip light is red.
The yaw control is just like a rudder -- rudder controls yaw. Pushing on it pushes to the right and pushes Segway to the right, and pushes to NorthEast. Pulling on it pulls to the left and pulls Segway to the left, and pulls to SouthWest. This is just like East-West action of a rudder.
The rudder was historically (Viking times) mounted on the right, the starboard. In fact in Icelandic, "styrr-" "bord" "steer-" "side".
These ergonomic considerations go back a long way, yet here remain
consistent with both the inconography and bicycle handlebars metaphor
of steering the vehicle you are riding on/in.
This will generalize nicely to 3-space motion, for future personal
transport underwater, in the air, or in gridded space (imagine untethered elevators, allowed to move in and out of space).
Slashdot Mirror
It's also on the iPod touch, which isn't getting its time from the network (I'd be very surprised if it could). Reykjavik and zones to the east all show 31 Dec 2007 instead of the customary "Tomorrow" for those presently past-midnight WorldClock choices. All the way, that is, until Pago-Pago, Samoa, across the date line, where it is showing Today. Wellington, New Zealand is the same time modulo 24 hours, only Tomorrow, er, 31 Dec 2007 iTouch(iPod) Central Standard Time. :)
Well, it is not really all that exotic. If you think of the human labor as a multi-dimensional fractal, a crystal growth, if you like -- then you will agree that it is not going to hell in a handbasket -- there is ever more of it, and there is ever more potential for it, as long as the people are increasing in number and complexity. They do and they do: Finding time on your hands and finding things to do just increases the dimensionality of both human labor and the embedding space, the space of possible human labor.
You just qualified it as compulsory labor, to distinguish it from other kinds, evidently. The original point was that the human labor is going by the way of the dodo. My point is that this is a misapprehension of reality. Now, whether you like the labor you say you have to do -- or whether you are even aware that what you do is labor -- that's neither here nor there.
Fundamentally, some fraction of what you are -- what you do -- how you interact with others -- is human labor, has that effect, is indistinguishable from human labor in its effect, whether you happen to think it is that or not. A better metric than what you yourself think of your labor is what others say it does for them, and an even better one is some sort of a thought-experiment calorimeter that measures the labor output of your existence under all conceivable interactions with the universe, under some qualification of locality.
Yes, I can deny it. What constitutes most people? Collecting all human labor from every elegible capita, where each human is elegible for the count who survived the separation of his or her umbilical cord from Mom for 2 minutes, for example, and is still letting you us about it?
If you distribute human labor over all who come calling, it is far from evident that "for most people" the hours they must devote to laboring has decreased. Child labor is on the rise, planetwide, corellated with increasing poverty in those locales. You could even say that children working even in affluent societies are directly expressing the cultural impoverishment setting in.
Commute times are also increasing, especially if you count the time for queuing up for necessities. You are appealing from a comfortable position of being lodged on the good side of a skewed world of inequities. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing all the same.
Quite apart from that, you should consider allowing that human labor in all its manifestations, not just the compulsory, only gets compounded by the ability of the few privileged humans -- say, those who may type into
No. You are pointing at the obvious: The amount of invested human labor. The interviewee is making a different, uncareful point, that the human labor is becoming obsolescent.
This is not so. The very same dynamic which you quote, having more time, doing more things, creates more need for human labor -- more degrees of freedom, if you will, more territory ready for human labor to move in.
The human labor is exploding, as is the need for it. That is congruent with any one existing task or toil taking less of it. I never denied productivity is increasing.
The problem is how to connect available capacity for human labor to available human labor, at the same time providing for every human.
I think this is shallow thinking, an illusion in progress, because "production process" is more interconnected and harder to contain in one bucket of isolated money/goods/value added than the interviewee lets on.
Human labor is always increasing because there are more humans laboring with more opportunity to labor at something, and therefore is always more needed; ie., there is a yawning and only getting wider permanent shortage of it because more things go undone, and the undonness of things in the world is only increasing -- thanks to production and creation of resources, as well as waste, want and web, and also, the loss of ecosystem and resources.
It is the displacement and barriers which come about from various turmoil, ranging from eco-calamities and wars to local economical or production hiccups that derail the effectiveness of any one human's labor, to the point of belittling or endangering the human.
The true invariant is having a unit of actual time to fill per human. What goes into it, by definition, is the human's labor and the complement of it, everything else. But even in such a binary division, the conception of free time does not respect this division: One's free time may well contribute to one's human labor.
I'm hopeful about free software, as adding flow capacity to the human exchange manifold, but I don't buy the obsolescence of human labor.
Those of us who read into the record, as it were, creative stuff, not keeping copies, will find it wonderful to have a chance to recover some. With
14k posts in Google Groups, I feel on the whole happy to have the chance to be embarrassed by the past... and find things lost poems.
Segway makes it obvious what's starboard and what's port and
uses those categories intuitively, avoiding "left" and "right"
or any arbitrary conventions reminiscent of the control layout
in cars, or drive-on-the-left/right conventions.
the only green thing is the GUI display with the human face, and it
is to the right, not center, or starboard. The starboard/starboard
wingtip light is green.
the only red thing is the on/off switch, and it is to the left, or port.
The port side/port side wingtip light is red.
The yaw control is just like a rudder -- rudder controls yaw. Pushing on it pushes to the right and pushes Segway to the right, and pushes to NorthEast. Pulling on it pulls to the left and pulls Segway to the left, and pulls to SouthWest. This is just like East-West action of a rudder.
The rudder was historically (Viking times) mounted on the right, the starboard. In fact in Icelandic, "styrr-" "bord" "steer-" "side".
These ergonomic considerations go back a long way, yet here remain
consistent with both the inconography and bicycle handlebars metaphor
of steering the vehicle you are riding on/in.
This will generalize nicely to 3-space motion, for future personal
transport underwater, in the air, or in gridded space (imagine untethered elevators, allowed to move in and out of space).