Palm may have bought BeOS, but webOS is built upon Linux with a fairly standard GNU userland with a few proprietary bits and toolkit centered around HTML/CSS/JS (along with a native devkit.)
Can't it get a break from all the turmoil?
It'd be a steal for Samsung/Intel if they could snag it and open it up as part of Tizen. Squeeze out some efficiencies on ARM (and the native toolkits to boot) and leave the GUI a blank slate, and they'd have a ready to use platform that was fully open source at all phases of development.
On the other hand, it could be bought by someone and allowed to rot like the mobile platform company Motorola bought ages ago.
I can only imagine how pissed off add-on developers are with this batshit insane update schedule.
My guess is that any competent addon developer is using the Nightly channel, and thus their addons have been fixed for weeks already. Hell I use Nightly on my system at home and it's been rock solid.
I don't see Google screaming about every new Chrome release that comes out.
Nor does Mozilla. They made a blog post. I just saw (seconds ago) the notice that FF8 was released. And this article, full of people bitching about it.
This isn't an "open" system by any stretch of the imagination. It's basically charging people $9 for the ability to sideload software, something Android enables via a checkbox. The security systems remain 100% in force.
I'd be impressed if it put the user in control of the security systems, rather than let Microsoft retain that control (oh, and if it were free and not $9.)
and so really smart geeks will figure out how to root the device and install "real" Android on it.
Yet this virtually never happens. Either the old kernel gets reused, or the kernel holds the device back and newer versions of Android never get ported back. Lack of kernel sources inhibits "real" android as much as it inhibits other OSes.
Has it never occurred to you that there's a middle ground between where we are and no regulation at all?
You assert we are at the extreme end of regulation?
Or that one can go about regulation differently?
One can always do things differently, but whether it is still effective is what matters.
Or, geez, that even if there was _no_ regulation how public outcry from everyone would still provide a good deal of incentive to not do it? Not that I'd rely on that, but still we wouldn't be half as bad as China.
We'd probably end up like China, or at least like we were in the early to middle part of the last century (can you say "superfund"), real quick. And people would die needlessly before the uproar was enough to drive them out of business or, as is the policy these days, they sell their assets to a new company and the shell goes under.
I've heard nothing out of the likes of Bachmann, Perry, or Cain that suggest they have some plan for alternate forms of less intrusive regulation while still protecting the environment. Instead, they seem to desire to tear down regulations and environmental protections wholesale, for the sake of "jobs" and as in Cain's case the Koch Brothers who are, in his own words, his "brothers from another mother." Yeah. I think we know where his loyalties lie.
Quoting this stupid comment for posterity. There is no "Android" connector, Android devices tend to come with two common connectors: 1/8" audio jack and micro USB port. And both of those are extremely standard. You seem interested in arguing an idiotic point to somehow place Apple on some untouchable pedestal.
Apple's proprietary port is all over the place. So fucking what?
But then there's no sense in arguing with you, no point will get through the residual RDF that has stuck with you.
One of the things Apple has done very effectively is manage the user experience
Apple is also a single company that produces both the OS and the hardware.
MS Windows and Android have allowed manufacturers to put out devices with too little RAM, CPU, and/or poor quality screens, keyboards, touch-screens and it hurts the reputation of the platform.
WP7, since that's the only thing that is relevant now, requires you use the hardware that Microsoft dictates, with a little maneuverability regarding design and gimmicks. As for Android, I don't your point regarding the other bits as NEW devices tend to be top of the line in all aspects. Rather, Android itself seems to have been fundamentally fucked as Google has spent the last 3 years reinventing the wheel that had already been built, quite well, in regular Linux platforms.
That's not "more standard." That's just de-facto acceptance due to the commonality of the device. The port is still totally proprietary and I have no doubt that Apple would sue the fuck out of anyone else that used it.
If the Secureboot thing happens, it's virtually guaranteed that Macs will honor it or they won't be able to boot Windows 8. And they won't abandon Boot Camp, as it keeps people in the Apple fold. I suspect MS and Apple are buddies way more than people think.
About the only thing it'll win on are some aspects of battery life and the price, I'd be surprised if the Nook Tablet didn't have a stereo audio jack considering even the Nook Color has one.
Nope. I had one of those, and while the hardware was somewhat interesting about a year ago (one of the earliest Tegra 2 devices) the TN panel basically made it suck. Then to discover that the early Tegra 2 platforms had flawed silicon that impacted the behavior of a critical register, I gave up on hacking the thing and took it back to the store.
Now I have a Nook Color, whose better screen and smaller form factor have made it a much more interesting hack target. I'm very interested in the Nook Tablet if it's as readily accessible as the Nook Color was.
I could totally see this failing due to privacy legislature relating to patient records.
That only controls how the hospital and their associates handle the documents. I, however, can do whatever I please with my patient records including posting them up on the internet for all to see or sending a 3D MRI model of, let's say my crazily warped femur, to a rapid prototyping shop to have them produce it.
even with the ability to import your own keys or switch off secure boot, there is probably a license problem with GPLv3 which will set Linux, BSDs etc at a disadvantage.
Nope. No issue there, so long as you can install your own keys or switch off secure boot. The problem would come if I received a system with secure boot on and a signed GPLv3 bootloader that I could not replace, and was provided no key with which to sign it.
The GPLv3 run afoul of this. This is why FSF wants vendors to implement the draconian "setup mode" scheme.
I like how setting up a system such that it can still be configured by the end user is "draconian" whereas somehow a scheme that is locked by default to Microsoft and only Microsoft is somehow "liberating" I guess?
Secure Boot will give a closed source system (or at least a system with secret private keys) a clear security advantage.
False. As-is, it will give Microsoft and only Microsoft an advantage due to the deliberate difficulty in getting keys out there and adding them to the platform. What SHOULD happen is there should be a menu that allows me to import keys I select, but MS et. al. can't have that happen.
Why would ANYONE want Microsoft to start putting requirements into OEM contracts for anything but there own stuff
Because they've been convicted of abusing their position in the market to benefit themselves at the cost of competition?
if you don't trust the OEM's then complain to the OEM's, don't look to an even bigger bastard to stomp on there necks to do your job for you, the only thing that will result from that is both of your necks being hurt.
I'm sure the OEMs are more than willing to ignore Linux users in exchange for being friendly with Microsoft.
But they will absolutely not allow users to define what keys are used for secure boot.
There is some FUD speculation about a conspiracy that Microsoft will secretly require the vendors to *enfore* secure boot with Microsofts key exclusively. That would prevent other bootload'ers from loading. This is despite the fact that Microsoft has publicly said that they prefer that vendors do not do this but that they cannot mandate this, as it is ultimately the vendors choice, not Microsofts.
I doubt they will be explicit about their desire for such crippling. Microsoft wants the availability of other OSes to be at the whim of the vendor, but have ensured that their platform will ABSOLUTELY be available. If anything, much like the browser issue in the EU they should be forced, as a convicted felon, to work with vendors to ensure other options are available.
Or are you saying we should just trust Microsoft not to do things to disenfranchise and drive competitors out of the market? In the face of their history?
In fact, it would hurt Microsoft as it would exclude the enterprise and corporate sector from downgrading to non-secure boot aware OSes like Windows 7, Server 2008/R2 etc.
Considering all of those OSes support UEFI boot, I'm sure they could add support down the line if they really wanted to.
when I think Linux experts, I think of HP and Dell machines sitting on their desks
Perhaps not everyone wants to build their own system? Maybe they just want a bunch of identical boxes for whatever task they have at hand?
Ask ASUS how their retail boards' BIOS will be configured.
Considering ASUS gets the Windows logo on all of their hardware, I expect that out of the gate they'll be set to locked mode, maybe with the option to disable it.
But who knows, they might require you download a secondary BIOS image that adds the disable option, but upon installing forces you to agree to give up your warranty. You know, sorta like what the HTC, SE, and Nexus handsets do when you unlock them. Isn't that an awesome thought?
Slashdot Mirror
Palm may have bought BeOS, but webOS is built upon Linux with a fairly standard GNU userland with a few proprietary bits and toolkit centered around HTML/CSS/JS (along with a native devkit.)
It'd be a steal for Samsung/Intel if they could snag it and open it up as part of Tizen. Squeeze out some efficiencies on ARM (and the native toolkits to boot) and leave the GUI a blank slate, and they'd have a ready to use platform that was fully open source at all phases of development.
On the other hand, it could be bought by someone and allowed to rot like the mobile platform company Motorola bought ages ago.
Slashvertisement?
I knew you could! This one isn't even interesting.
My guess is that any competent addon developer is using the Nightly channel, and thus their addons have been fixed for weeks already. Hell I use Nightly on my system at home and it's been rock solid.
Nor does Mozilla. They made a blog post. I just saw (seconds ago) the notice that FF8 was released. And this article, full of people bitching about it.
That's AT&T being a bunch of assholes though, not a matter of policy set by the OS vendor.
This isn't an "open" system by any stretch of the imagination. It's basically charging people $9 for the ability to sideload software, something Android enables via a checkbox. The security systems remain 100% in force.
I'd be impressed if it put the user in control of the security systems, rather than let Microsoft retain that control (oh, and if it were free and not $9.)
Dwindling? Really?
Holy shit, choice! Competition!
I never thought I'd see the day when people would whimper and cry because of it.
Yet this virtually never happens. Either the old kernel gets reused, or the kernel holds the device back and newer versions of Android never get ported back. Lack of kernel sources inhibits "real" android as much as it inhibits other OSes.
Unlike the "higher end Chinese clones" the kernel sources will probably be available.
No offense, but, source please.
You assert we are at the extreme end of regulation?
One can always do things differently, but whether it is still effective is what matters.
We'd probably end up like China, or at least like we were in the early to middle part of the last century (can you say "superfund"), real quick. And people would die needlessly before the uproar was enough to drive them out of business or, as is the policy these days, they sell their assets to a new company and the shell goes under.
I've heard nothing out of the likes of Bachmann, Perry, or Cain that suggest they have some plan for alternate forms of less intrusive regulation while still protecting the environment. Instead, they seem to desire to tear down regulations and environmental protections wholesale, for the sake of "jobs" and as in Cain's case the Koch Brothers who are, in his own words, his "brothers from another mother." Yeah. I think we know where his loyalties lie.
Quoting this stupid comment for posterity. There is no "Android" connector, Android devices tend to come with two common connectors: 1/8" audio jack and micro USB port. And both of those are extremely standard. You seem interested in arguing an idiotic point to somehow place Apple on some untouchable pedestal.
Apple's proprietary port is all over the place. So fucking what?
But then there's no sense in arguing with you, no point will get through the residual RDF that has stuck with you.
Apple is also a single company that produces both the OS and the hardware.
WP7, since that's the only thing that is relevant now, requires you use the hardware that Microsoft dictates, with a little maneuverability regarding design and gimmicks. As for Android, I don't your point regarding the other bits as NEW devices tend to be top of the line in all aspects. Rather, Android itself seems to have been fundamentally fucked as Google has spent the last 3 years reinventing the wheel that had already been built, quite well, in regular Linux platforms.
That's not "more standard." That's just de-facto acceptance due to the commonality of the device. The port is still totally proprietary and I have no doubt that Apple would sue the fuck out of anyone else that used it.
USB is a standard. The dock connector is not.
If the Secureboot thing happens, it's virtually guaranteed that Macs will honor it or they won't be able to boot Windows 8. And they won't abandon Boot Camp, as it keeps people in the Apple fold. I suspect MS and Apple are buddies way more than people think.
About the only thing it'll win on are some aspects of battery life and the price, I'd be surprised if the Nook Tablet didn't have a stereo audio jack considering even the Nook Color has one.
Nope. I had one of those, and while the hardware was somewhat interesting about a year ago (one of the earliest Tegra 2 devices) the TN panel basically made it suck. Then to discover that the early Tegra 2 platforms had flawed silicon that impacted the behavior of a critical register, I gave up on hacking the thing and took it back to the store.
Now I have a Nook Color, whose better screen and smaller form factor have made it a much more interesting hack target. I'm very interested in the Nook Tablet if it's as readily accessible as the Nook Color was.
That only controls how the hospital and their associates handle the documents. I, however, can do whatever I please with my patient records including posting them up on the internet for all to see or sending a 3D MRI model of, let's say my crazily warped femur, to a rapid prototyping shop to have them produce it.
That's ExpressGate.MagicGate is Sony's MemoryStick DRM system.
Err, why do you think people are up in arms?
Nope. No issue there, so long as you can install your own keys or switch off secure boot. The problem would come if I received a system with secure boot on and a signed GPLv3 bootloader that I could not replace, and was provided no key with which to sign it.
I like how setting up a system such that it can still be configured by the end user is "draconian" whereas somehow a scheme that is locked by default to Microsoft and only Microsoft is somehow "liberating" I guess?
False. As-is, it will give Microsoft and only Microsoft an advantage due to the deliberate difficulty in getting keys out there and adding them to the platform. What SHOULD happen is there should be a menu that allows me to import keys I select, but MS et. al. can't have that happen.
Sorry, your points are trollish at best.
Because they've been convicted of abusing their position in the market to benefit themselves at the cost of competition?
I'm sure the OEMs are more than willing to ignore Linux users in exchange for being friendly with Microsoft.
But they will absolutely not allow users to define what keys are used for secure boot.
I doubt they will be explicit about their desire for such crippling. Microsoft wants the availability of other OSes to be at the whim of the vendor, but have ensured that their platform will ABSOLUTELY be available. If anything, much like the browser issue in the EU they should be forced, as a convicted felon, to work with vendors to ensure other options are available.
Or are you saying we should just trust Microsoft not to do things to disenfranchise and drive competitors out of the market? In the face of their history?
Considering all of those OSes support UEFI boot, I'm sure they could add support down the line if they really wanted to.
Perhaps not everyone wants to build their own system? Maybe they just want a bunch of identical boxes for whatever task they have at hand?
Considering ASUS gets the Windows logo on all of their hardware, I expect that out of the gate they'll be set to locked mode, maybe with the option to disable it.
But who knows, they might require you download a secondary BIOS image that adds the disable option, but upon installing forces you to agree to give up your warranty. You know, sorta like what the HTC, SE, and Nexus handsets do when you unlock them. Isn't that an awesome thought?