When much of current society and culture is based off of lies and hypocrisy, I guess that any argument which points that out really is flamebait - it invites debate.
Your right to property is a useful social construct, not a moral tenet.
No, it isn't religion, I've been an atheist for more than a quarter of a century, so maybe I'm out of touch. Honesty in exchanges between mutually consenting beings is still moral, as far as I know;)
Social construct? Perhaps. I doubt that the first caveman who shared fire with his neighbors would have thought of it that way (although perhaps that's where the concept of trade came from).
Since then we've made it into an industry for parasites. That was probably inevitable, and has had it's detractors over the millenia, as well.
One could also argue that in the end, your actions (including thoughts) are determined by the laws of physics, and therefore, free will must be an illusion.
Quantum physics allows for indeterminate solutions;-)
On a more realistic note, if there was no such thing as free will, then science would never have developed anything. No thinking "outside the box" allowed;-) (philosophy has never been one of my strong subjects, because I think most of it is an illusion produced by people exercising free will...)
In the society we live in - yes, you do have that right. But ours is not the only possible society. The concept of property only emerged when humans began to settle down, so it can't be something inseperably linked to human nature. It must be allowed to assess, in a philosophical sense, whether this concept is still useful in serving society as a whole (as opposed to only serving a relatively small number of people).
The concept of "property" is extremely common amongst living things, particularly higher organisms. Most species above the level of bacteria have territorial behaviours that are comparable to human behaviour.
I really love the current scientific debate about "altruism". It has the potential to actually show how our species can be less destructive than animals which don't have the opportunity to steal from their fellows and the other species they compete with.
Technically, they were quoting Gene Roddenberry and/or the writers of the show*, not Spock, who is a fictional character.
* Not entirely sure who wrote the script, hence... it reminds me of people who quote Prof La Paz from Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, when they should be quoting Heinlein;-)
There is no such thing as free will in the first place.
Bullshit. The fact that I could read your comment and reply, or not, in any manner I see fit negates your statement. I can choose to have wine or a beer or nothing with my supper tonight, or I could choose to go out and spend my money elsewhere. Etc. It's the asshats who want to predetermine or legislate your free will that are the problem.
If property rights cause more harm than good they should be abandoned.
I have the right to keep property that I've bought and paid for, as long as I don't abuse that right to harm other citizens. This comment is too general. (Case in point would be the tools that I use to fix other people's problems. Quite a few of those tools, including the knowledge in my head, could also be used to harm other people; but that is not the use I put them to. ) I suspect you were probably thinking of things like gene patenting or intellectual property - but you should clarify that.
Individuality is harmed by blanket laws that leave law enforcement and judges little option but to impose mandatory penalties despite mitigating circumstances. Many of the problems human society is experiencing right now stem from such laws.
This may seem like a stupid question (I don't fly) but wouldn't you always have to check a firearm if you're a civilian? Otherwise you might be planning on hijacking the aircraft, or something...
It's rather strange how I can express the same opinion that is expressed on this website so often wrt 4chan, in a thread where it's actually relevant, and get modded troll.
Must have been a 4channer with mod points. (Now that is a troll)
Figures. Thanks for the info, Hatta. Shortly after I posted my comment I found out that the web site was already inaccessible, so I couldn't even read anything past the post on techdirt. Didn't pursue it past that, it isn't worth my time.
One could almost feel sorry for her, as she's obviously batshit insane; but considering the amount of resources she costs other people in insisting on spreading her demented bullshit, maybe not.
It sounds to me like she's suffering from some form of dementia.
Didn't even have large files that were directly linked to. Lame.
Good bet that their website admin is looking for a new job before the evening is over, poor bastard. (Not likely that the people actually responsible for this idiocy will be sacked, unfortunately)
Somehow I doubt they have the money to prosecute all the slashdotters who will soon be hitting their pages. Just the slashdot effect alone will likely bankrupt them.
Seconded - in that I'm dealing with another customer this year who just can't keep his kids/relatives/etc off the machine, and keep it from getting infected. Twice in the last 7 weeks - because of someone surfing the net and installing whatever they want to (he needs admin rights for some of his software). Negotiations are continuing.
All that he and his wife do on the machine is internet and email.
Let's hope that they keep the "non-standard" style naming. Might seem unprofessional to some, but "professional" in that respect is usually something thought up by a Marketing Division, rather than people with an actual sense of humour.
Someday, probably within your lifetime, we may have some really serious telescopes out beyond earth orbit, that can take exposures whose times are measured in months or years.
If they are just passing on torrents (text files) and keep the site simple, then anyone with the right receiver could downlink the orbiting site to the internet. Considering that satellite tv receiver/dishes are quite common, and pass on loads of data...
Actually I think it'd be more likely they'd have trouble finding anyone to actually launch the thing.
Slashdot Mirror
Might not be a bad idea.
SB
When much of current society and culture is based off of lies and hypocrisy, I guess that any argument which points that out really is flamebait - it invites debate.
SB
Both Gene Roddenberry and Robert Heinlein are well known for stating their opinions on culture and society in their fictional writings.
SB
Don't let the gestalt decide your commentary for you, then. You could have dissented.
SB
Your right to property is a useful social construct, not a moral tenet.
No, it isn't religion, I've been an atheist for more than a quarter of a century, so maybe I'm out of touch. Honesty in exchanges between mutually consenting beings is still moral, as far as I know ;)
Social construct? Perhaps. I doubt that the first caveman who shared fire with his neighbors would have thought of it that way (although perhaps that's where the concept of trade came from).
Since then we've made it into an industry for parasites. That was probably inevitable, and has had it's detractors over the millenia, as well.
SB
One could also argue that in the end, your actions (including thoughts) are determined by the laws of physics, and therefore, free will must be an illusion.
Quantum physics allows for indeterminate solutions ;-)
On a more realistic note, if there was no such thing as free will, then science would never have developed anything. No thinking "outside the box" allowed ;-) (philosophy has never been one of my strong subjects, because I think most of it is an illusion produced by people exercising free will...)
In the society we live in - yes, you do have that right. But ours is not the only possible society. The concept of property only emerged when humans began to settle down, so it can't be something inseperably linked to human nature. It must be allowed to assess, in a philosophical sense, whether this concept is still useful in serving society as a whole (as opposed to only serving a relatively small number of people).
The concept of "property" is extremely common amongst living things, particularly higher organisms. Most species above the level of bacteria have territorial behaviours that are comparable to human behaviour.
I really love the current scientific debate about "altruism". It has the potential to actually show how our species can be less destructive than animals which don't have the opportunity to steal from their fellows and the other species they compete with.
(/sarcasm on multiple levels)
SB
Technically, they were quoting Gene Roddenberry and/or the writers of the show*, not Spock, who is a fictional character.
* Not entirely sure who wrote the script, hence... it reminds me of people who quote Prof La Paz from Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, when they should be quoting Heinlein ;-)
SB
There is no such thing as free will in the first place.
Bullshit. The fact that I could read your comment and reply, or not, in any manner I see fit negates your statement. I can choose to have wine or a beer or nothing with my supper tonight, or I could choose to go out and spend my money elsewhere. Etc. It's the asshats who want to predetermine or legislate your free will that are the problem.
If property rights cause more harm than good they should be abandoned.
I have the right to keep property that I've bought and paid for, as long as I don't abuse that right to harm other citizens. This comment is too general. (Case in point would be the tools that I use to fix other people's problems. Quite a few of those tools, including the knowledge in my head, could also be used to harm other people; but that is not the use I put them to. ) I suspect you were probably thinking of things like gene patenting or intellectual property - but you should clarify that.
Individuality is harmed by blanket laws that leave law enforcement and judges little option but to impose mandatory penalties despite mitigating circumstances. Many of the problems human society is experiencing right now stem from such laws.
SB
This may seem like a stupid question (I don't fly) but wouldn't you always have to check a firearm if you're a civilian? Otherwise you might be planning on hijacking the aircraft, or something...
SB
Are you still in the Black Hills area?
SB
Except for the old farts (of which I am now technically a member) who remember what things were like... you know, before.
SB
It's rather strange how I can express the same opinion that is expressed on this website so often wrt 4chan, in a thread where it's actually relevant, and get modded troll.
Must have been a 4channer with mod points. (Now that is a troll)
My last statement is nothing other than truth.
SB
Lesson learned? Indeed.
@ Grimbleton: Ultimately there is only one person involved, the one who made the decision to do it this way.
SB
Not at all. From what I've seen of 4chan, it is for the most part naive ignorance, not the sort of arrogant ignorance this represents.
There are various forms of humour; just because one doesn't pay lip service to some of them doesn't mean that one doesn't understand them.
SB
Then again, when I read thru all the replies just to my first post here, I suspect that dementia is a lot more widespread than anyone suspects ;-)
SB
Figures. Thanks for the info, Hatta. Shortly after I posted my comment I found out that the web site was already inaccessible, so I couldn't even read anything past the post on techdirt. Didn't pursue it past that, it isn't worth my time.
One could almost feel sorry for her, as she's obviously batshit insane; but considering the amount of resources she costs other people in insisting on spreading her demented bullshit, maybe not.
It sounds to me like she's suffering from some form of dementia.
SB
That's horrid!
I don't know. I'm actually finding it rather amusing ;-)
Everybody gets bit by stupidity at least once in a while. For a clusterfuck of this magnitude takes deliberate, arrogant ignorance.
SB
Didn't even have large files that were directly linked to. Lame.
Good bet that their website admin is looking for a new job before the evening is over, poor bastard. (Not likely that the people actually responsible for this idiocy will be sacked, unfortunately)
SB
Zero comments when I posted*, and when I tried to access the site about ten seconds after that, it was already down ;-)
I think we can all see how this is going to play out...
* My first First Post. Yippy doo dah.
SB
Somehow I doubt they have the money to prosecute all the slashdotters who will soon be hitting their pages. Just the slashdot effect alone will likely bankrupt them.
Id10ts.
SB
Seconded - in that I'm dealing with another customer this year who just can't keep his kids/relatives/etc off the machine, and keep it from getting infected. Twice in the last 7 weeks - because of someone surfing the net and installing whatever they want to (he needs admin rights for some of his software). Negotiations are continuing.
All that he and his wife do on the machine is internet and email.
Loading Kubuntu on his box as I speak.
SB
Let's hope that they keep the "non-standard" style naming. Might seem unprofessional to some, but "professional" in that respect is usually something thought up by a Marketing Division, rather than people with an actual sense of humour.
SB
Someday, probably within your lifetime, we may have some really serious telescopes out beyond earth orbit, that can take exposures whose times are measured in months or years.
SB
If they are just passing on torrents (text files) and keep the site simple, then anyone with the right receiver could downlink the orbiting site to the internet. Considering that satellite tv receiver/dishes are quite common, and pass on loads of data...
Actually I think it'd be more likely they'd have trouble finding anyone to actually launch the thing.
SB
I find it pretty hard to believe that they could do this (I'd love to see anyone here predict an eclipse without using a computer)
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antikythera-mechanism-eclipse-olympics
SB