>> Oh yes because of bill gates hard work and not his perfect timing hes the richest man in the world
"Luck is merely preparation applied at the right time." - J. Curtis Bill Gates got rich because he had a great idea and had the work-ethic and business sense to follow it through.
>> There ARE no internships right now in the middle of a recession
That's funny, because over 5000 students at my school are off to internships and co-op placements within the next month.
It is the surplus being trimmed off in those rounds of lay-offs. Companies are still going to need programmers despite this apocalyptic recession of which you speak, you just have to prove that you are better than anyone else for the job or accept lower pay. This applies for jobs at all levels, if you're breaking into the industry or at the top.
While you're out gathering your tins of food for the recession everyone else is going to try to keep their skills up to date and get decent jobs.
>> Attitude has nothing to do with it. You can go in there confident as hell, dressed up in a suit and tie, young and ambitious.
I'm not talking about attitude when you walk into the interview, I'm talking about attitude when you're on your own time. Instead of bitching about the state of the economy why don't you do actual coding. If you can show off an Open Source project you contributed to, then they will take that for both experience and a demonstration of self-motivation.
>>He has certifications just like you do, and to top it all off he has a degree.
But he wants 60k+/year and benefits; I'll settle for $14/hour part-time because I'm still in school.
>> you are young, with no experience, no degree, and just certifications.
young = cheap labour, more attractive
no degree = cheap labour, more attractive
no experience - not true, I had plenty to demonstrate at my interview, including an encryption component that tied into Outlook, and a MFC-based flowchart program that I coded for my school (which still uses my app in their classes).
certifications = waste of time and money. No one gives a fuck about them. They show you can store some info in your short-term memory while you write a test. Spend your time coding real-world stuff instead. Want a job writing embedded apps? Get a cheap Palm and see what you can do. Want a job writing low-level C code? Get into Linux kernel dev. Web-based apps? Create some sort of web service using J2EE. Most of the tools you need are freely available on the net. You just need to get off your ass and get to work.
>>When you got hired at 16, there was a shortage of experienced workers, they were hiring any kid off the street
Firstly, the company was not hiring when I applied, and it was through sheer determination that I got job. I learned about what the company did (web-based applications) and learned all I could about it. Then, when I finally got an interview I was able to impress them with what I knew. They think "wow, this kid is smart and we can get him for cheap." Furthermore, when I was hired, it was as a lowly intern, not some senior position like the people you speak of would want. The unfortunate reality is that most companies in-hire, so once you have your foot in the door it is much easier to move up the ranks and gain experience.
Your bitterness, arrogance, and pathetic work-ethic are holding you back, not your lack of experience. If you want to break into the programming industry, work at it and be willing to start small. It seems like you're scrapping the bottom right now, so money is probably not an issue. Why not pursue a job at a small firm and use it as a jumping off point.
For a little more insight on how people tend to pick passwords check out this story previously posted to slashdot.
hgh
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigour of the mind." -Leonardo da Vinci
You cant just walk in and get a job as a database admin or sys admin, that takes years of experience and a degree.
No you don't. You need to be demonstratably good at what you do. When I was 16 (I'm now 20) I got a job as an intern at a consulting company. I was a Junior Developer at 18. I'm very involved in design, and lead some small/medium projects. Prior to getting the job I did a lot of stuff on my own, and kept learning things while I had the job.
The trick to being successful is working hard enough to give yourself an edge over anyone else, and keep working at it.
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the
vigour of the mind." - Leonardo da Vinci
Unless you plan to go to college every 4 years, you wont be able to keep up, and no not everyone wants to go to college all their life, some people just want a normal career, you know where you spend your time in college, get a degree, and then go to work for at least 10-15 years before having to go and take a few courses.
Maybe your looking at the wrong profession. If you really want to go on fifteen years without learning anything, the computer industry is really not the right fit for you. Why not take up a manual trade? Plumbing and toilets havn't changed much in the last couple decades. There almost always quite a bit of work available too. Even when the economy is down people will still need home repairs. I know a plumber who does quite well for himself, actually.
You seem to be expecting a free lunch after earning a degree. It sounds like you've earned some sort college or university degree, but you seemed to have missed the point: 4 years in university is supposed to push your boundries and teach you how to become a good thinker and problem solver. If you don't want that, why don't you go to trade school? If you don't want to learn anything new and work hard how do you expect to retire at the age of 40 from an industry that changes every 18 months?
to teach a non-programmer...absolutely wonderful about assembly, and to a certain degree C
I agree that a very high-level language is probably not the optimum way to teach programming, especially Java (a lot of the I/O and graphics stuff is way to complex for new programmers), but I don't think assembly or C is the way to go. Both languages require a relatively good understanding of computer architecture right from the beginning--there is no easing into it, especially in assembly.
Despite what seems to be a general sentiment against it, I think C++ is a great way to start, especially now the STL. The C++ I/O libraries are pretty easy to use, and the STL gives you quite a bit of high-level functionality. Having strings makes the initial steps a lot easier to grasp. New programmers won't ask "well, why do I have to do all this?" when they want to do some basic string manipulation. They can ease into that question in time, while using the same language. You can also use C++ to learn about OO techniques. The first language I learned was C++ (the first programming book I found), and I found classes to be an intuitive way to model "things" in code. At first it's always concrete classes, but as you learn you start to code more abstract classes. The power and flexibility you have with C++ make it a great language to learn with.
There is pretty good presentation (real video) featuring Bjarne Stroustrup that gives a better defence than I offer.
Disclaimer: I'm a Junior Developer at a relatively small consulting firm and havn't been in the industry too long, but I've noticed a lot of areas in which my management could improve:
1. Set deadlines. This sounds really obvious and somewhat vague, but I find it very important. I work best under micro-deadlines, especially when I'm doing relatively large tasks: break down the problem and set deadlines for each part; or, ideally, collaborate with the programmer on the deadlines. Working towards deadlines will motivate your programmers and give them a sense of pride when they meet them.
2. Give your programmers a pat on the back when they do well. Knowing your boss and your company value your work makes doing work infinitly more enjoyable.
3. Talk with your programmers frequently, even if just for a short time. Ask them about their concerns and ideas. Programmers (myself included) are relatively egotistical and love to have their ideas heard. Be approachable too. Try not to stretch your time so thin that you can't talk to someone who has a pressing concern. Often when I have a pressing question my manager is running around doing something and doesn't have time to talk to me.
4. Do code reviews. I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on code reviews, but I think if they're done correctly they can really do great things for a team. Firstly, it gives the manager a chance to see who is producing good code and who is not.
Code reviews also give good coders a chance to show off their clever code to others. I can't stress this enough. I've often tried to show off some particularly clever piece of code to my manager (or whomever), but they usually don't care or understand. Code reviews give the programmer a captive forum in which to show off--definitly boosts morale.
Slashdot Mirror
>> Oh yes because of bill gates hard work and not his perfect timing hes the richest man in the world
"Luck is merely preparation applied at the right time." - J. Curtis
Bill Gates got rich because he had a great idea and had the work-ethic and business sense to follow it through.
>> There ARE no internships right now in the middle of a recession
That's funny, because over 5000 students at my school are off to internships and co-op placements within the next month.
It is the surplus being trimmed off in those rounds of lay-offs. Companies are still going to need programmers despite this apocalyptic recession of which you speak, you just have to prove that you are better than anyone else for the job or accept lower pay. This applies for jobs at all levels, if you're breaking into the industry or at the top.
While you're out gathering your tins of food for the recession everyone else is going to try to keep their skills up to date and get decent jobs.
hgh
>> Attitude has nothing to do with it. You can go in there confident as hell, dressed up in a suit and tie, young and ambitious.
I'm not talking about attitude when you walk into the interview, I'm talking about attitude when you're on your own time. Instead of bitching about the state of the economy why don't you do actual coding. If you can show off an Open Source project you contributed to, then they will take that for both experience and a demonstration of self-motivation.
>>He has certifications just like you do, and to top it all off he has a degree.
But he wants 60k+/year and benefits; I'll settle for $14/hour part-time because I'm still in school.
>> you are young, with no experience, no degree, and just certifications.
young = cheap labour, more attractive
no degree = cheap labour, more attractive
no experience - not true, I had plenty to demonstrate at my interview, including an encryption component that tied into Outlook, and a MFC-based flowchart program that I coded for my school (which still uses my app in their classes).
certifications = waste of time and money. No one gives a fuck about them. They show you can store some info in your short-term memory while you write a test. Spend your time coding real-world stuff instead. Want a job writing embedded apps? Get a cheap Palm and see what you can do. Want a job writing low-level C code? Get into Linux kernel dev. Web-based apps? Create some sort of web service using J2EE. Most of the tools you need are freely available on the net. You just need to get off your ass and get to work.
>>When you got hired at 16, there was a shortage of experienced workers, they were hiring any kid off the street
Firstly, the company was not hiring when I applied, and it was through sheer determination that I got job. I learned about what the company did (web-based applications) and learned all I could about it. Then, when I finally got an interview I was able to impress them with what I knew. They think "wow, this kid is smart and we can get him for cheap." Furthermore, when I was hired, it was as a lowly intern, not some senior position like the people you speak of would want. The unfortunate reality is that most companies in-hire, so once you have your foot in the door it is much easier to move up the ranks and gain experience.
Your bitterness, arrogance, and pathetic work-ethic are holding you back, not your lack of experience. If you want to break into the programming industry, work at it and be willing to start small. It seems like you're scrapping the bottom right now, so money is probably not an issue. Why not pursue a job at a small firm and use it as a jumping off point.
hgh
For a little more insight on how people tend to pick passwords check out this story previously posted to slashdot.
hgh
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigour of the mind." -Leonardo da VinciNo you don't. You need to be demonstratably good at what you do. When I was 16 (I'm now 20) I got a job as an intern at a consulting company. I was a Junior Developer at 18. I'm very involved in design, and lead some small/medium projects. Prior to getting the job I did a lot of stuff on my own, and kept learning things while I had the job.
The trick to being successful is working hard enough to give yourself an edge over anyone else, and keep working at it.
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigour of the mind." - Leonardo da Vinci
hghMaybe your looking at the wrong profession. If you really want to go on fifteen years without learning anything, the computer industry is really not the right fit for you. Why not take up a manual trade? Plumbing and toilets havn't changed much in the last couple decades. There almost always quite a bit of work available too. Even when the economy is down people will still need home repairs. I know a plumber who does quite well for himself, actually.
You seem to be expecting a free lunch after earning a degree. It sounds like you've earned some sort college or university degree, but you seemed to have missed the point: 4 years in university is supposed to push your boundries and teach you how to become a good thinker and problem solver. If you don't want that, why don't you go to trade school? If you don't want to learn anything new and work hard how do you expect to retire at the age of 40 from an industry that changes every 18 months?
hghI agree that a very high-level language is probably not the optimum way to teach programming, especially Java (a lot of the I/O and graphics stuff is way to complex for new programmers), but I don't think assembly or C is the way to go. Both languages require a relatively good understanding of computer architecture right from the beginning--there is no easing into it, especially in assembly.
Despite what seems to be a general sentiment against it, I think C++ is a great way to start, especially now the STL. The C++ I/O libraries are pretty easy to use, and the STL gives you quite a bit of high-level functionality. Having strings makes the initial steps a lot easier to grasp. New programmers won't ask "well, why do I have to do all this?" when they want to do some basic string manipulation. They can ease into that question in time, while using the same language. You can also use C++ to learn about OO techniques. The first language I learned was C++ (the first programming book I found), and I found classes to be an intuitive way to model "things" in code. At first it's always concrete classes, but as you learn you start to code more abstract classes. The power and flexibility you have with C++ make it a great language to learn with.
There is pretty good presentation (real video) featuring Bjarne Stroustrup that gives a better defence than I offer.
hghDisclaimer: I'm a Junior Developer at a relatively small consulting firm and havn't been in the industry too long, but I've noticed a lot of areas in which my management could improve:
1. Set deadlines. This sounds really obvious and somewhat vague, but I find it very important. I work best under micro-deadlines, especially when I'm doing relatively large tasks: break down the problem and set deadlines for each part; or, ideally, collaborate with the programmer on the deadlines. Working towards deadlines will motivate your programmers and give them a sense of pride when they meet them.
2. Give your programmers a pat on the back when they do well. Knowing your boss and your company value your work makes doing work infinitly more enjoyable.
3. Talk with your programmers frequently, even if just for a short time. Ask them about their concerns and ideas. Programmers (myself included) are relatively egotistical and love to have their ideas heard. Be approachable too. Try not to stretch your time so thin that you can't talk to someone who has a pressing concern. Often when I have a pressing question my manager is running around doing something and doesn't have time to talk to me.
4. Do code reviews. I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on code reviews, but I think if they're done correctly they can really do great things for a team. Firstly, it gives the manager a chance to see who is producing good code and who is not.
Code reviews also give good coders a chance to show off their clever code to others. I can't stress this enough. I've often tried to show off some particularly clever piece of code to my manager (or whomever), but they usually don't care or understand. Code reviews give the programmer a captive forum in which to show off--definitly boosts morale.
Good luck in your endeavours.
-hgh