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The Widening Tech-Savvy Gap
When things malfunction, the vast majority of Americans try to fix it themselves. (And no wonder. Tech Support is synonymous with anxiety and indifference). Almost half -- 47 percent -- say the first thing they do when a piece of equipment fails is try to repair it. Another 21 percent have a friend or family member look at it. Only nine percent take a broken purchase back to the place where they bought it. Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
The survey of nearly 3000 adults, commissioned by American Demographics magazine and published in its March issue, reveals other intriguing details. Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features, there are differences by region. Northeasterners are the most confused, Midwesterners the most computer-confident. When attempting to learn their way around a new purchase, 89 percent consult instruction manuals, poor saps.
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same. Young adults are also more proficient, says the survey, when it comes to using cell phones, stereos, remote controls, microwaves and computers. Separated, divorced and widowed Americans are more involved with high-tech than other singles and married people. This may be because they have more time, or are perhaps more focused on using tech to connect with other people.
Television, meanwhile, continues its long reign as Americans' most beloved and comprehensible technology. In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use. More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Asian-Americans use the Net more than any other group. On any given day, says American Demographics, more than half of all English-speaking Asians (53 percent) go online, compared to a third of all English-speaking whites (33 percent) and a sixth of all English-speaking blacks (17 per cent). On the other hand, 65 percent of African-Americans say they know and understand the features of their mobile phones, compared with only 42 percent of whites and 56 percent of Hispanics. One might have predicted, though, that women are more open to reading directions than men.
The survey is significant for several reasons. It shows that responses to tech are different among different age, geographic and ethnic groups. It confirms the idea that tech industries are peopled by smart geeks still too far removed from the ordinary concerns of average Americans. It reminds us that Tech Support is a scandal. It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work, while most people struggle to use them. New tech tools from computers to cell phones may seem ubiquitous, but in fact, they are not. Tech triggers different responses in different people, depending on where they live, how old they are, and even their race and ethnic origins.
I thought the gap was narrowing thanks to the Dummies series.
"Why, for example, would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?"
We drink less coffee and more beer. It allows for paitence
http://www.kubuntu.org/
I knew the midwest was good at something more than pulling on cow's teets.
(Okay, maybe I just wanted to say teets.)
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
You have just received the Amish Virus!
Since we do not have electricity or computers,
you are on the HONOR SYSTEM!
Please delete ALL of your files....
Thank Thee.
Alan Thicke's Journal
My Slashdot ads say "
You can't let some minor equipment failure get in your way. That is why "midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?" Many people living in New York and Boston never fix anything in their lives.
The survey says that younger adults and people with a lot of time on their hands are better able to learn how to use their techno-baubles! Imagine that... I'd imagine that you could publish this same survey every decade and the results would always ring true.
For pointing out the obvious...
There is nothing new here, this has happend sence the dawn of time. The young have always been the ones to adapt, use, and have fun with the new stuff the quickest. This is just a rehash of an old theme. This is life and nature at work, this is not technology.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
This is my Experience with the techno-confused.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
I've gotta say, meept!
All the various and heinous anti-circumvention / IP protection laws also probably have something to do with it.
If you can't tinker with something, how on earth are you supposed to figure out how it works. Most tech companies and especially their lawyers and bean counters would prefer if we just clicked and drooled.
Again, this is not a problem limited to the USA. don't forget that /. has an international readership. Why frame it as an American issue? OK, that's what the stats that formed the foundation of the article pointed to, but surely the problem as a notion can be extended without too much trouble.
lies
damned lies
statistics
john katz quoting statistics
Now that there aren't so many posts yet...
Could we try, at least this time, to have a discussion about the post / story for a change, instead of yet another Jonkatz bashing fest? If you don't like Jon, ignore the storie and change your settings accordingly. Not that I'm a great fan of JK, but I'm getting sick and tired of hearing the same old anti-Jon BS every time he's posting something
Yes, I know I'll loose karma over this
thank you
-- Jason
Personally, I'd like a definition of what tech-savvy means. Does it mean knowing how to cope with poorly designed electronic systems?
I work in the IT industry, and I'm responsible for designing all kinds of information flow and so on, and I keep find that the real problem in most systems is actually a lack of knowledge on the part of designers on how to really build good systems.
Personally, when it comes to design tech, I think a lot of "not-so-savvy" users probably know a lot more about how design should be than most of the designers.
</rant>The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Yeah, everybody fixes their own cars. Besides, if people keep demanding space-ships instead of simple, one-task machines like in every other field imaginable, they'll continue to get space-ships. That's not arrogance, it's just the way markets work. People are too cheap to buy simple stuff, because they want "full flexibility".
Seems a bit harsh. To be able to market complex technologies to even very stupid people is surely more a gift than a failing. Your market is, after all, generally limited to people capable of understanding why they might want your product.
It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
How about the tobacco industry?
where's the survey you refer to?
Sung to Unpack Your Adjectives by School House Rocks
Unpack Your Adjectives
Came back from the weekend to work
Saw someone being a jerk
I barely had logged in
Katz had posted again
The people on slashdot were starting to moan.
So we unpacked our adjectives.
I unpacked "faggoty" first.
Reached in and found the word "worst."
Then I picked "fucked" and
Next I picked "sucked" and
Then I was ready to rant and rave.
Because I'd unpacked my adjectives.
Adjectives are words you use to really describe things
Handy words to carry around.
posts are old or they're re-hashed
janitors are lame or else they're trashed
Adjectives can show you which way.
Adjectives are often used to help us compare things
To say how gay how fat how short how small.
nerds who are gay can get gayer,
geeks who are queer can get queerer,
Till one is the gayest
And one is the queerest of all.
We read along without a bore.
Then a post from that whore
He was a fucking loon
He was a stupid goon
We beat a hasty retreat from the bufoon
And described him with adjectives.
Sund to 'Unpack Your Adjectives" by School House Rocks!
Next time you get on the web
Remember don't let it ebb
The minute you get back
Tell Katz to shut the fuck up
You can describe people, places and things
Simply unpack your adjectives.
You can do it with adjectives.
Tell them Katz writes on sedatives
You can shout it with adjectives.
Michael Loves Me!
In retrospect, it's similar to the criticism of TV people once voiced, you'll become so addicted to instant entertainment that you won't be able to think for yourself. Contrary to that assumption I read about 30 books over the last year and rarely watch TV anymore. Maybe people do change, when it becomes important for them to.
Idle thought: I wonder what the ratio is of tech savvy people to the number who drive manual transmission vehicles.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
As kids grow up and older people die, you can bet people will become more tech saavy. I'm 24, but you can bet people just 5-6 years ago didn't have as much exposure to technology that I had in my formative years of college and HS. This is not to say people who are 30 aren't tech saavy or are not learning, but the exposure is out there, people are using computers more and more, just as 3G cells, email, etc, wasn't there 7-8 years ago for the mass public.
Give it a couple of years, and don't despair over a generational gap. I have sisters younger than me who are quickly learning the ins and outs of AIM and web surfing, something I never had when I was 13. It's a steeper learning curve for older generations, and there's always some nostalgia creeping around the corner there as well. The techno-elite will shift some, and there will always be a few luddites in our society, but I doubt the gap is truly widening.
That's mindless rhetoric. Everything new is new to everyone at some point. If it becomes accepted, it becomes familiar over time. This is true of anything. Programs will be dumbed down, GUIs will be made user-friendly, and devices will label their buttons better.
Even an idiot can use a cell phone or the internet today, just as he'll use a food replicator in 200 years before walking into the corner of a holographic door.
I don't need to know how to build a car to know how to drive a car, and the same goes for computer technology.
------
Today's Top Deals
please get your facts straight
The bigger the gap, the longer we have jobs, the more money we will make, the more secure our jobs will be, the more important we will be.
This is exactly what we want.
The day joe blow can do what we do, is the day we become as worthless as an office clerk or typist.
We need to teach people the basics yes, but some stuff we should keep to ourselves to preserve our own value.
Never teach everyone everything you know because you'll be replaced.
Also i worry about AI and self healing computers, hopefully we can keep ahead of the machines.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
How true! One only needs the proper "directions". Print this Manual out and leave near the computer for you SO to find:
XML causes global warming.
For what was written, I was expecting Katz to come to a conclusion. There wasn't one, it just ended saying the survey was significant. Katz tries to draw conclusions that he won't allow the reader to draw his or herself.
What's the point? Let us take it for what it is, and come to our own conclusions.
"This last group may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one."
Can you spot the oxymoron in this sentance? Of course not, because there isn't one. I think we can spot the moron though...
Compare with the northeast, where most people are decended from people that have not had to deal with the same problems of basic survival. I'm not trying to knock northeasterners, but looking back 80 or 150 years, people in the northeast had specialists to solve their problems, while those that survived in the midwest had to be jacks-of-all-trades or go broke or worse.
science is a religion
In most types of technology, the information needed to become savvy is readily available. The problem is that few people care how things work. That won't change. In fact, as the online population grows, the problem will become worse because there will be more and more users who have traditionally shunned technology. Those people will continue to shun technology as much as possible; i.e. "I just want to know enough about this to get my work done". You can present the information, but very few people will bother to read your presentation.
um, tobacco?
Just raise the taxes on crack.
"More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard."
Yeah cause you plug it in and turn it on, sit back and grow dumber. A computer has a few more features, and somehow I don't think the "computer industry" is really pondering this long and hard. You're comparing apples and oranges.
"i can never say no to anyone but you"
I mean if everyones tech savvy what will we do then? We'd be worthless.
I hope the user interface dumbs down so much that all they have to do is talk to their machines and their machines handle everything. This way when the machine breaks they wont know what the hell to do, and we will be hired in at insanely high prices to fix r eally easy problems.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Katz asks 'why would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?', but in fact, since this is based on an opinion poll in which the respondents evaluated their own expertise, the real question would be 'why do midwesterners think they grasp technology so much better than northeasterners do?'
I think a precedent of such a gap between the population and practitioners of a learned art has already been set.
If you think for minute, the medical establishment has been an example of this that has existed for over a century now.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I dont really think it's all that surpriseing that more people know how to use a tv then a computer, first of all one has been around for 50 years as opposed to 10 in most homes, and also there are so many more fuctions in the computer, it can do more, therefore is harder to learn.
who'd have thunk that TVs are still #1? Just push the "power" button. They tried getting tricky with that kooky "program+" thingee, where you just punched in a series of numbers for any given show, and it would record. It seems that left quietly.
And could anyone find the source for this article online?
Micrsoft WANTS you to be confused. They're dumbing down each successive version of windows until some day it will be "push this button to create a document" (in Word); "Push this button to send an email" (in Outlook); "push this button to go to MSN" (as the default and unchangeable portal. Which only allows access to MS approved outside sites); "Push this button to play a Windows Media file" (which you bought off MSN and has DRM built in.) MS can then strong arm the media companies, music companies, et al.
I'm telling you; watch for it. MS is changing YOUR computer from a general purpose device to a black box that only allows you to access what THEY want.
BC
I don't know how many times I've heard "Just show me what I need to know; I don't want to learn all that other stuff" from any number of technophobes.
science is a religion
You have to be Elitest, thats just reality.
Sure you can teach people, but do it for a price, dont give them all your knowledge for free.
In case you didnt forget, we live in a world of capitalism, you have to pay your bills, if you teach everyone everything you know, you decrease the value of what you know x10 for each person who knows what you know.
So yes we should teach them the basic ways to operate a computer, make the computer as easy as possible, but hide the more esoteric stuff that we the technicians, programmers, sysadmins, and other tech savvy folks make a living on.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If Katz will stop spouting off with this jibberish (or preferrably just keep his pie hole shut) then we'll stop bitching about it. Until that happy day, let the flaming begin...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Well DUH. C'mon, Katz, use your brain. To operate a TV you press the button, possibly change the channel, and watch the screen. No further user intervention required.
It would be easy to do the same thing with computers.... as long as you didn't want them to actually do anything. As a matter of fact, they ARE that easy -- turn on the power switch and just watch the screen. It's not very USEFUL, but it's easy.
An infinitely flexible tool is just not going to be as simple as a single-purpose one. And, it would appear. people don't WANT single-purpose computing appliances, because every time one has come on the market, it has flopped miserably.
Whether or not it confuses them, it appears very likely that people LIKE the complexity. They have had alternatives and have not chosen them in any great numbers.
You can stop beating on this horse-shaped wet spot on the concrete anytime.
Despite the proliferation of tech toys and work devices in people's lives, the gap between the tech-savvy and the techno-confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries.
Arrogant? You assume that technology == better quality of life. Not true. Did the possibility ever enter your head that maybe some (most?) people don't want anything to do with technology? A significant portion of the population chooses not to embrace cell phones, computers, pdas, etc. because of the hassle. I envy those that don't have to worry about their boss ringing the cell phone at 3am on a saturday to fix some firewall. Sometimes i wish i could pile all of my "tech miracles" into a big pile and set them afire. And move off to a ranch in montana.
Reminds me of the Digital Divide issue. Despite the current administration's voodoo statictics, it's getting worse, video streaming Commodore 64s from Afghanistan notwithstanding.
i don't think the problem is that the non-tech savvy people don't have the ability to figure out all the features of their computers, cell phones, etc., i just think they aren't interested in knowing all that stuff they consider useless. for instance, my girlfriend is not what i would call a techie. she used the computer for the internet, word, and a couple games. she has no desire to dive into everything the computer can do. she simply doesn't care. i am the opposite, in that i want to know everything it does and want to know how to do it, so i consequently figure out nearly all the features. it's not a matter of technology being too complicated to understand by non-tech people (ease of use has really come a long way since the altair :) ), it's that the non-tech people really don't give a damn.
"I just want to thank my coach Eric a.k.a. Disco for shattering my reality..."
I knew how to put the aluminum foil on the TV antenna to stop the snow on "Romper Room" before I was seven. Kids nowadays...
This was an article by Katz. Where's all the half thought out assumptions?
Brought to you by Team SPAM! where we believe: "Information in the noise!"
What really gets is the automagic nature in which people expect things - computers at least - to work.
It's like, they should include a copy of a well edited 32 or 40 page book that explains things like:
Such a book would also have the words "DON'T PANIC" - say, 2 inches high - printed on the cover. That could be the title of the book.
Back in the day they handed us that info in our Computer Literacy classes (I'm 27, if you want the point of reference)... and while the curriculum was written for the benefit of children, that doesn't meen the same introductory information wouldn't be useful to the less-savvy.
...When in doubt, think for yourself.
Despite the proliferation of tech toys and work devices in people's lives, the gap between the tech-savvy and the techno- confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries. It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Come on, Jon.
Don't blame us for the fact that the tech sector moves so quickly. Sure, some of us are elitist, but the occasional RTFM isn't the source of all this trouble.
Everyone knows that if the automobile industry evolved at the same pace as computers have, we could drive from New York to California for like fifty cents and get there in an hour or something (this was some quote from some intangible study from some book I've read, I don't remember exactly).
So please, before you blame the kernel hackers and the hardware guys and the OO coders for the fact that the typical American has to use AOL to navigate the Internet or else they'd be totally freakin' screwed because there's a huge tech info gap between the 'in the know' and the 'not in the konw' folks, reconsider. It's hard for ALL OF US to keep up with how quickly things are changing these days, not just the average middle class American.
monolithic - adj. Characterized by massiveness and rigidity and total uniformity; Linux - n. An implementation of the Unix kernel originally written from scratch with no proprietary code
I used to drive combine during the summer while I was in high school (i'm still convinced I'm the only person to listen to the Chemical Brothers and Orbital while driving a tractor), and the one thing I learned from that experience is that Duct tape and bailing wire will fix anything. When its 50 miles to the repair man, you learn to fix things yourself with what you have. That sort of problem solving and self sufficiency helps alot in the computer world, where the perfect solution may exist, but costs you 20 grand, but a good enough solution can be done extremely cheap.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Only 80%!? Come on, that's a ludicrous statistic; who is going to answer that they understand how to work a Computer 'better' than a trivially simple device like a TV. I know what _every_ button on my TV remote does, but I'm still suspicious about those "Scroll Lock", "Break", and "SysRq" keys on my PC keyboard.
Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart.
Why is buying a piece of crap product that broke the first time and came with no warranty/tech support smart?
Last year I bought a ViewSonic monitor, and it failed after 2 months. I phoned their tech support, and they shipped me a new one. If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to run out and buy a new one. Shoddy Tech support (from the major manufacturers) is a Dilbert-esque cliché.
The full results of the survey don't seem to be published online, but I'd very much like to see the numbers on breakdown on how family income level and education spending plays into all of this. It seems obvious, but there's an enormous number of people who can't afford high-tech gadgetry, and stand zero chance of learning how to use it. Although most kids are now growing up with some computers in their schools, schools in poor communities often have obsolete computers, relatively few of them, and no effective training.
As a college student coming from a relatively wealthy background, growing up in a tech-savvy area, I've been struck by how many students my own age are totally clueless when it comes to basic computing tasks, much more so than in my high school (which was within driving distance of Microsoft). Yes, the age gap is huge, but let's not pretend all of America's young people are getting the same skills.
Red All Over: Rambling Missives from an Aspiring Revolutionary
I want to see the data that backs up this statement. By itself, this is borderline racist. Are you saying that Irish Catholics, which make up a large chunk of the Northeast's population, are somehow stupid? Maybe we're all just a bit "slow?" Must be because we're all drunks, right? If I wanted to read stereotypes and mean-spirited smears against an entire ethnic group, I'd turn to WorldNetDaily or NewsMax or some site like that. This is the last thing I expected to read on Slashdot.
... you mean 90% of people aren't actually the above average drivers they think they are?!
"our arrogant and elitist tech industries"
Those of us in tech aren't arrogant and elitist... you're just jealous of my 1337 5ki11z... luser!
- The auditors said to secure the server... hand me that duct-tape -
Where is the evidence to back these ridiculous claims up? This is why I hate Jon Katz's writing: it's all cyber-gee-whiz-hyperbole style, with no substance.
Katz asks why the tech industry has continued to trundle along (not entirely prosper, but mostly so) when we 'abuse' our users. Tell me, would he ask the same uestion about a gap between the 'medically savvy' and the 'medically confused'? Modern computer systems (and by systems I mean -everything, hardware and software) are very nearly as complex as biological organisms (at least as we currently understand them. The more we learn about biology, the more there seems to be, but that's another topic). Is it -really- hard to figure out why most folks aren't computer experts?
Let me spell it out then: The problem is too complex for most people to bother spending the required amount of time to learn its answer. Just like medicine, some of the more esoteric bits of automobiles, and other inherently complex topics.
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
It reminds us that Tech Support is a scandal. It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work
There's nothing wrong with the concept of tech support. Your average user doesn't NEED to know everything about computing technology, and a place to go to get their answers is a Good Thing. there will lways be tech elites that truly understand how the tools function, there will be a larger number who are power users, there will be an even larger portion that are average users and so forth.
Additionally, tech support people are not usually the ones that fully understand technology. They are trained to answer common questions and to know who to turn to when they need more complicated questions answered.
Nice job Katz, I try not to flame you needlessly, but this particular piece of tripe reads like a fifth grade essay, what grade did your kid get?
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
That way we will all be as valueable as an astronaught, instead of be as valueable as an office clerk.
The more esoteric that our jobs are, the more difficult it will be for common joe blow to steal our jobs, the more money we will make.
As much as I'd like everyone in the world to be computer savvy, in a capitalist world,
people get paid for their knowledge, their skill, and their ability to apply it.
By giving the common man your knowledge, all they have to do is have skill and apply it, this means you'll be without a job when you are fired and replaced by joe blow.
Your salary will be 30k a year because YOU taught everyone how to do what you do making your job as valueable and making you as important as an office clerk or mc donalds burger flipper.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I see the gap every day. I am a 24 year old head systems administrator at a small economics consulting firm, and I am the youngest person in my office by about 8 years. Although a small group of people here are capable of fixing simple commputer problems, the vast majority rely upon me to do just about everything. The thing that amazes me is that in this day and age, companies are still failing to see how valuable basic computer skills (the kind that could be gleaned from some sort of basic training course) are valuable for EVERYONE, not just the system admin. Not that I mind, but it is rather silly to have 40 people, 20 Linux boxes, 40 PCs, and a whole slew of technical gadgets in a back room, and only one or two punks in their mid-twenties that know how to maintain any of them. My company does this, and I can think of 5 friends off the top of my head who are in the same positions at other small companies! AMAZING! Oh well, I guess another year of 20% raises all around... Cheers!
Perhaps I'm confused here, but doesn't his imply that 20% of those respondents know more about how to use a computer than a TV? I assume by _use_ they mean to operate. If this is the case, well, i never considered 'turning on' a tv or 'changing the channel' to be monumental feats of intellect. Yet these same people understand how to operate a computer better? Perhaps they are referring to 'programming' your TV's special features, and I guess without the little paperclip to help you this might be daunting task for some people.
Another thing I noticed about the article is it that while it breaks up the catagories into age and race, it doesn't really report a 'class' catagory (although it does mention 'may be rich'). I would imagine the middle-class to have the highest tech-savy'ness. The lower-class would not be able to afford much of the newer technology, and the upper class can pay someone to do it for them. The middle class, however, can afford the technology for entertainment, but cannot afford the entertainment the upper-class enjoys, and so are left with the gadgets. In this regard, the midwest (which I assume is more middle-class) would have the more techsavy.
I've got more disposable income now than I ever had before...but I've PURCHASED all of the consumer techno-gadgets to be had. I last felt that 'smell of the hunt' feeling when I bought a RUG Shampooer fer chrissakes.
It puts me in a serious funk to walk into Circuit City/Best Buy/Soundtrack and realise that there ARE NO consumer electronics left for me to purchase. My pda's perking along fine, as is my cellphone, Digital Camera, computer, Xbox, home theatre, TV, blender, coffee maker, LAN, lawnmower, car lift, electric toothbrush...you get the point.
At the same time that I've got everything I want, I've got a ton of functionality I don't use. I've got an X10 touchpanel that's programmable, interrupt driven, and can literally control everything in my house. It's technically not beyond my abilities to program it. Why does it only turn on and off the Stereo tuner and control it's volume? Because I can't be _bothered_ to figure it out.
That may be the more telling issure here: Are these people stupid, or is it just not a high enough priority to learn? (OR do us midwesterners just have more dark cold winter to futz with stuff?)
Hey, my phone's a two way pager...it can surf the net, it's got an IR port to connect my pda to the internet. How many people CARE that it does more than 'look cool' and doesn't drop calls?
We've gotten to the point where more features can be crammed into a device than can be used. It it bad that I don't use EVERY feature?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
I can't help but feel that the spread levels of tech understanding (consumer product wise) might actually shrink as time goes on. My folks never grew up with computers, so there's a large gap between their and my understanding of tech. Since pretty much the majority of people growing up now and in the past 5 years had been exposed to computers, there's no large gap between generations on Tech/NoTech.
Chika Chik-ah... do-e ow ow.
so are we as techies going to fix theis problem, or just wait for the public to get smarter (which may never happen)?
PS - fp
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same. Young adults are also more proficient, says the survey, when it comes to using cell phones, stereos, remote controls, microwaves and computers.
;-)
Wouldn't this suggest that the gap is narrowing?
The younger generation is adapting to the new technologies faster, meaning the gap is narrowing. Once the baby-boomers start to fad away, there will be a more tech-saavy people around.
Another point. What are we doing to help out?
Linux is always being criticized as not being user friendly. "User Friendly" is the way to narrow that gap. Make it so your grandmother can use it. I'm not criticizing linux's user friendliness, but saying its prudent to this conversation.
One last note. Don't you know that 86% of all statistics are made up?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
it is expanding because of the dummies series.
Actually it is expanding due to the Dummies series, and due to things like educational feel good agendas. Shear speculation, but most likely in the midwest the basics of education, especially in rural areas, are still being used, while in the cities all of the latest theories are being used, changing from year to year. or you have a system where the city with the most money per student has the worst scores in the State (*cough*Boston*cough*)
Money is not the answer, but methodology is.
As far as throwing money at the problem, check this out.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work, while most people struggle to use them.
Honestly... if you look at ANY industry, from cars to computers to planes to medicine, there are those at the top who understand everything and can pick it up easily, then there are the rest of us, who struggle to change a spark plug.
I don't see why this 'tech gap' is so all-consuming for Katz. The reality is, there are people who quickly grasp new software and gadgets. There always will be. Does this create a difference in people? Of course. But no more than the difference between the average citizen and a budding concert pianist. Why not whine about the talent gap? or the auto repair gap?
And don't say 'this is different', because it's not. Just about anyone can take piano lessons. But very few of those people will go on to make money from playing that instrument. It's not a 'gap', its human nature and differences coming to the forefront.
Vive le difference.. i'd hate to live in a society where we were all equally good at everything.
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo - H. G. Wells
The tech industry should follow the lead of television? A device that, until the last 20 years, was operated with TWO interfaces: volume, and channel selection (three if you count fiddling with the antenna which doesn't count in these days)?
What about a modern TV then? Everyone whined for the V-chip and many have it, but how many "concerned" parents know how to even use it? Please be careful about making broad statements that end up being tenuous at best.
And I would also like to see some correlative data on the nationality/tech use statistics. I have a strong feeling that age and (gasp) household income probably play a larger part than anything. Just spouting off a statistic like "53 percent of Asian Americans are 'Net users!" is like saying "African American males commit more crimes than any other social group!" In the later case insensitivity forces people to reevaluate the statement. Personally I think the same should go for the former. Be objective, objective, objective.
What is music when you despise all sound?
To me, this article was just some veiled racial comments and SOP (Standard Operating Poo-poo) for Katz.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
"More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard."
Uh, you maybe you haven't noticed that "working a TV" isn't working at all, it's just sitting and staring. General-purpose computers are never going to be easy to work, and shouldn't be, simply because they're general-purpose. How many people have difficulty working engine-control computers in their cars?
The sad situation is that most of those people have no need or use for general-purpose computers, but getting them to contribute billions of dollars to the cause brings the prices down for the few of us who do. It's modern manufacturing. We can make mobile phones at give-away prices because we invested hundreds of millions of dollars in factories to make them. If you want to repair them when they break, you'll have to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a repair facility.
This is a completely specious argument. A computer runs my TV, therefore, "computers" are exactly as hard to understand as a TV.
Oh wait, maybe Jon meant PCs, which are general purpose computers. In this case maybe the fact that my PC is millions of times more capable and flexible than my TV has something to do with it. You are never going to be able to access the full functionality of a PC using the volume up/down, the channel up/down, and the on/off buttons.
Careers should combine three things: what you can do, what you want to do, and what you can get paid for.
Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features, there are differences by region. Northeasterners are the most confused, Midwesterners the most computer-confident
;-)
The trouble I have with surveys is that people are asked a specific question, with a set of possible responses. And from these biased awnsers people make weird and interresting conclusions.
They seem to have asked "Do you think you know how your computer works?" with possible awnsers like "not at all, a little, very much".
So, midwesterners awnsered they knew their shit more often than others? That means they're more prone to brag and talk shit, not that they actually know it. This is a survey, not a test.
I got polled for that "family feud" quiz show once...they wouldn't accept my awnsers...they suggested better ones. (Something that requires batteries = "a pacemaker"...can't see why they didn't accept that awnser
You can't take the sky from me...
There's a large difference between knowing how something works, and knowing how to use something.
For example: I know how to use the automatic transmission in my car, but I certainly don't how it works. I know how to use money, but I haven't the foggiest understanding of the macroeconomics upon which the value of that money is determined.
Surveys of this nature are frequently unclear on whether they're testing understanding of inner workings or understanding of usage points. I would argue that your average Joe Citizen needs to know as much about the technology he uses in the day to day as he needs to know about his car. That is to say that he only needs to know how to turn it on, how to use it to accomplish his task, and how to maintain it properly.
The real issue is one of the user experience. If Joe Citizen can't figure out how to get his car to change gears (because it's an "Option...") then there's a problem.
It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Altough industry is a bit strong, most kingdoms, religions, etc... seem to fit in your definition.
:-)
On the other hand, 65 percent of African-Americans say they know and understand the features of their mobile phones, compared with only 42 percent of whites and 56 percent of Hispanics.
Of course the porch monkeys and beaners know how to use their phones better than anyone else-- how else would they set up their drug deals?
I think when we consider the definition of "tech-savvy" to be "I can program my VCR" -- we're taking giant leaps backwards.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
The only way that anyone from a vending machine cleaner to a managing director stays current is through re-training. Re-training doesn't always mean college or university, often people don't pop to their local library and pick up a 'Windows for Dummies' or even learn the basics of what a computer actually is. I'm not saying that there are not mitigating factors and I'm not saying that there isn't an excuse. But the fact is from the industrial revolution to today people have had to shift skill sets and move with the market.
It's the nature of things, one door closes and another opens. My 83 year old grandmother has learnt how to email and use the net so its possible up to a quite considerable age. Who is the oldest computer/internet/slashdot user?
e4 e5
Speaking of. I need to go to the bathroom and take a big 'Katz' right now. BRB.
Michael Loves Me!
I'm probably the most 'tech-savvy' person I hang out with. I can program a little, setup networks, build PCs from bits, etc. Not a full-on geek, but way above average. So I was surprised to read that:
"fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features"
My guess would be that 1% of Americans with computers could legitimately claim this. I've certainly never worked with *anyone* who was a deep programmer, sysadmin wizard, audio guru, graphic designer,...
Lighten up, Jon
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Ya no one in the north east like Massachussets (MIT, Ximian, FSF,...) New York (ah duh, need i list them all?) New Jeresy (Lucent, Bell Labs, 2 IT colleges and a huge bio pharmacy and telecom industry).
Man katz is such a fucking troll.
Luckily i have ads blocked so these lame flamebaiters won't make any money of this reply.
This survey doesn't take into account the fact that a lot of the people who say they can use their computer have no clue about the way it works.
It's the same thing with cars or TV for that matter. So knowing how to operate something does not mean that you can repair it when it's broke.
Seen that way, the gap has always been there, it's just that the number of things that people don't understand is increasing.
Try it! Library of Babel
Asking someone how good they are at stuff is not an accurate way of judging how good they really are. What were the actual questions?
Q1. Do you consider yourself computer savvy?
Q2. Do you know how to make a bookmark in MS Word?
Q3. Given a bunch of components could you put together your own computer and install an OS on it?
These 3 questions measure different things. The guy in Nebraska might have been using MS Word for 5 years and knows it inside out, so considers himself computer savvy, but yet couldn't for the life of him figure out how to do anything else. Do we consider that person knowledgeable?
They did a study a few years ago and determined that people who were truly incompetent didn't know they were incompetent. Also, people who really were competent tended to underestimate themselves.
Call me cynical or a skeptic, but this kind of broad survey is difficult for me to swallow. Were the questions of the "How would you rate yourself" kind, or the "What's an inode" kind. Most surveys I've seen are of the former sort and those are crap, statistically significant number of participants or not.
more people not knowing their technical stuff means more job security for me, and the vast majority of other slahdoters. We should embrace this gap, it buys our toys!
Jon, you say that 89% of respondents to the survey say they read the product manual when they get a new gadget. For some reason, I find that impossible to believe. Just looking at my circle of friends, all of whom are part of the "tech savvy" group, I can see first hand that almost *NONE* of them will look at the product manual when they get something new. Regardless of whether they've ever seen anything even remotely like it.
I also take quite a bit of issue with your assumptions about tech support. From the statistics you've quoted there were exactly zero questions regarding tech support, so I would like to know where your assertations in that area come from? Having been on the receiving end of tech support calls for more years that I care to think about, the conclusion that I can come to completely supports my earlier point that almost none of the people buying a new product actually open the manual that comes with it. I can say with absolute certainty that if they did, the volume of technical support calls would drop, and then those ridiculously long hold times would decrease as well.
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
Can't think of a group of people who care less about their customers ?
Here are two Jon
Tobacco and Gun companies, lob in the Defence industry, lawyers etc etc etc.
Maybe the problem is that actually its a fault of education, in the same country that has schools that don't think evolution is an idea you are suprised that technology isn't well taught. Schools censor technology because they are afraid of it, so people don't learn how to use is.
This isn't the result of big corps ignoring people, its a result of an industry that is 30 years old and has exploded in the last 10. How many people knew (or even know) how electric lights work when they came out ? Sure there is a gap between those who know and those who don't, there is that gap in terms of EVERYTHING, and most of the time it comes down to application and education.
And on the first point in the title, mobile phone usage varies across Europe, Finland leading the way. The vast generalisations from Jon apply yet again only to the US.
Tech Corps give users what they want, even if they don't understand it, that is what people want.... always remember...
They don't understand the software, they don't understand the hardware, but they can _see_ the flashing lights.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Why do you say that? I understand that you are referring to the majority and not anybody personally, but I don't agree with your statement. Is that how people out west view New England?
Russ
nosebreaker.com web hosting
Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
...and even their race and ethnic origins.') is just plain ignorance.
um no. those people tend to know the least amount about technology. a seasoned person would be able to work their way around the tech support lines and cluessless middlemen to get a fix. Smart people fix things they dont go out and contribute to the throw away society that we have developed.
The survey is significant for several reasons
god i hate when ppl try and come to conclusions abotu society from a survey or using statistics. it is impossible to do a fair survey unless you have a seperate objective view. this is why studies will never be able to predict the future and will never be able to even analyze current trends properly. yes i do believe that they are a good base for more research, but to draw conclusions from it and base an argument on purely statistical evidence and a few misplaced ideals of society ('Tech Support is synonymous with anxiety and indifference', Tech triggers different responses in different people...
sortof abotu the last point, i am so fucking tired of people doing surveys on ethnicity. this must be an american thing because up in canada i have never had to fill out my ethnicity on anything. why? because IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. im a white male mostly german in decent but i cannot stand when people try and match peoples behaviour to where their parents or their parents's parents came from. they american citizens, and once your government starts treating them as such instead of as an ethnic group maybe other cultures will start to like you.
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I know what _every_ button on my TV remote does, but I'm still suspicious about those "Scroll Lock", "Break", and "SysRq" keys on my PC keyboard.
... And why would I want to go 'Home' when I need to work for 3 more hours ;-)
A long time ago, when I worked on a PC for the first time, I also questioned when we should use these keys. Well, 10 years later, I still don't use them. Simplifying the keyboard by removing obsolete keys, and add some new ones (NOT THE WINDOWS KEY!) would make a difference for the unexperienced...
What does the 'Control' key control?
Which alternatives provides the 'Alt' key?
What is shifted when I press the 'Shift' key
"Why, for example, would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?"
It doesn't even seem to say that. It says that midwesterners are more CONFIDENT in their abilities with technologies. Their confidence may be totally unfounded.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
"It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived."
This assertion is unfounded. There are other industries where there are widespread examples of similar attitudes. "You need a new frob... No, trust me. You don't want to understand, but it won't work without it." However, there are many honest mechanics and there are many honest tech service engineers. A better example of another industry which exploits and abuses its customers is the entertainment industry. While there are some examples of inexcusable behavior in the tech business, the RIAA and MPAA want to strip people everywhere of their rights to use material. In the US, this right is presently guaranteed by law. There exist other countries where this right is not presently obstructed. These member companies want to repeal or otherwise invalidate the US law and impose or strengthen obstructions of this right in other countries. It is a monumental mistake to categorically dismiss an example of more prominent and funcdamental abuse which appears weekly or even daily on Slashdot.
Such a poll must have been wrong.
It showed diffrences in in race.
We americans all know that that cant be right since all races are equal (and we know that equal means Identical)
On a side note, this is the first story from Katz that I actually believe he has some insight into. The technically ignorant.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
That was question 2.
Is this some new software that runs on Linux or BSD?
Since it's not - I have no idea how one might use this program.
Guess I'm not tech savvy. So, that makes me, someone who works in IT, not Tech Savvy.
[insert comment about Jon and squirrels here]
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
About a month ago I bought a $700 (CDN) HP printer/copier/fax/whatever. It took me HOURS to get this pile working. After fighting with it for a while, I checked their support site and found a patch to supposedly fix a problem with the OS I was using. Good I thought, this ought to do it. Several more hours later, I finally got it to work. To add insult to injury, when I broke down and phoned their support line (which was not prominently advertised in the package anywhere), they seemed to want to charge me to help me install a brand new product that obviously wouldn't work due to the terrible software shipped with it.
A couple weeks later, I had the pleasure of helping a friend try and install an HP external CD writer. Once again hours past and everything in both of our technical arsenals was brought out, but in this case it never did function properly.
In my experience, it is not uncommon for specific manufacturers to be notoriously bad in similar ways. Some you know are going to be a joy to install, and others you get a bad feeling about just looking at on the shelf.
My point is, if technical computer professionals can't get this crap to work, what is the general public's experience like. It must be an unimaginable nightmare. No wonder the gap is widening.
Take a load of not so bright people ask them to evaluate themselves
Take a load of brigh people ask them to evaluate themselves.
The average rating for the not so bright will be from above average to excellent
The average rating for the bright people will be from average to above average
Put them together in a room to talk about the ratings...
Not so bright group don't change their opinions, bright group now average Excellent.
A common study on perception on reality that most psyhc students have looked at.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
- Actually spend time on it and try and make it good
- Pick boogers and smear them on your paper
- Regurgitate a bunch of statistics you found, and end with a forced statement about how significant these stats are
Katz seems to come from the third school of thought. Good thing, since it's hard to send boogers online.Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
"More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer..."
So 20% of the respondents don't know how to work a TV? Now THAT is scary!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Jon, sanity check here. Electric lights aren't high-tech, they're near a century old now. Pick a few dozen of your friends and ask them how lights work. I'll bet that at least half of them give an answer along the lines of "You flip a switch and the magic electricity flows and the bulb lights.". IOW they know how to work a light but not anything about how and why it actually lights up. They know the electric grid and generating plants work, but for all they know about how and why they work the whole process of getting electricity to a light bulb and making it glow might as well be a magic spell. It might not be obvious on the surface, since probably you understand it, but if you go probing you'll find that most people don't.
Now, if after a century we have a large percentage of people who don't understand the stuff that makes something as simple and ubiquitous as a light bulb work, why should we expect any significant percentage to understand what's behind something as complex and relatively new as a computer? That's what seperates the tech-savvy from the rest: we're the relatively small percentage who're actually interested enough to learn the whys and wherefores and whats behind using the technology. We know how the wires are connected behind the walls, how generating plants and electric grids work and what the switch actually does to the electrons, not just that flipping the switch makes the magic bulb glow. We've actually ferreted out why things work, not just how to make them work.
That's also why the gap won't go away: you can't teach curiousity. You can encourage those that have it to use it, but if they don't have it you can't force-feed it to them. Trying just annoys them, and they start asking why they need to know all this technical stuff just to use X.
This is also, IMHO, why the average savvy person's choice of reading is so different from the mainstream: we like things that make us think, the mainstream doesn't.
Modern cars are run by microprocessors.
How many of us can reprogram them? Not many.
How about your toaster - in the old days you could take them apart and fix them. Now they have fuzzy software.
Can you fix your Furby?
How about your Aibo?
Even our furnace controls are automated - but most of us can't fix those.
But the most important question is - why would we want to?
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
How can one possibly criticize business or business practices? In this Brave New Economy, the business elite, with they're millions in payoffs to the Texas Government (Oops, the US Government, sorta...) are free to do whatever they like without fear of prosecution.
Do you think there is even one Enron CEO that fears ANY punishment? Well, they're aren't. There is no law to punish them.
So to criticize the IT industry is to criticize business. And if you do, YOU'RE A TERRORIST !!! WE WILL FIND and KILL YOU, YOU evil COMMIE !!!
Not exactly informative... but accurate.
Stats don't always say what you think they are reporting. Especially when done in the form of a survey.
For a good breakdown of how people understand their own skill level take a look at this journal article. It does a good job of graphing people's self assessments against their actual performances.
The point is that just because a population is not confident about their skills as a computer user, does not mean that they are lacking those skills. Conversely, it is the confidant ones who lack the knowledge to be able to rate their own performance.
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
I can think of someone extremly more abusive to it's "customers" and for a lot longer than the tech industry has existed as we know it...
... a service rep. will show up between 8am and 5pm --- be waiting [after you already have for weeks or months]?
The TELCOs...
how many times have you been slammed?
how many times have you decided to not make a change to your service because every time you do -- you lose service for an indeterminate amount of time?
anybody else ever received a $700+ bill that should have been more like $100?
the one good thing about the telcos is that unless there is a major problem, you can always talk to somebody -- just takes about 4+ calls and reminders to get the problem fixed though...
how many other businesses could operate by telling you
many of these problems follow the same vein as Cable companies... which are mostly owned by telcos anyway.
just my two cents.
------------------------------
Ray Raspberry
raspberry@b3l33t.org
The parent is obviously a troll. Look at the craftsmanship:
Oft-repeated and tiresome plea:
Could we try, at least this time, to have a discussion [...]instead of yet another Jonkatz bashing fest?
Statement of the obvious:
If you don't like Jon, ignore the storie and change your settings accordingly.
Public expression of persecution complex:
Yes, I know I'll loose karma over this
Grammar Nazi bait:
Classic signs of frist p0st mentality:
Now that there aren't so many posts yet...
thank you
We could all learn a lot from this post... about trolling, not proper moderation.
And in other news, more consumers are able to make toast in a toaster than cook a three course meal on a stove, so maybe stove manufacturers should be taking a close look at toasters?
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Computers are NOT hard to grasp. They are stable and non changing- as far as basics go. They just get more complex and have more features- it's a matter of remembering more and thinking less. We still run on 1's and 0's here people. Try being a philosophist or a phsycologist and ironing out problems women have or proving there is a God. People are just fish in water when they gasp for air when you talk about registers and OOP programming- I do the same when I hear people talking about their social life.
But then again, i'm a geek, what do I know.
If the people Katz seems to be trying to advocate for are really so upset that they don't understand tech, why don't they get off their butts and start figuring it out? I bet it's because they don't want to. If years go by and some people get left behind, so be it. How is that our fault?
yes-if you live in a city.
You guys would fry Microsoft for illegally keeping out competitors, but would advocate the same tactics on the micro level?
BTW, how do you get to post such nonsense with a +1 bonus?
It's hard to evaluate the various claims made here based on this survey because there's no link to the original article, and it's subscribers only to see the research. All I see is an argument in search of some facts.
So we're left with a few obvious counter-points:
1) All technology takes time to filter through society. In "Rememberence of Things Past", Proust mentions how his old housekeeper was terrified of the telephone, and would shout at it when it rang. That was at the turn of the 20th century. Now people are much more comfortable with phones: familiarity breeds content.
2) Cost is as much a barrier to use as complexity. Take mobile phones (or cell phones): in the UK, where they are cheap, useage is so widespread, and happened so rapidly, that there appears to have been no technological barrier whatsoever.
3) Even if the tech industry is arrogant when it comes to support, does anyone think it's alone in that - say, compared to car manufacturers?
4) Should we be surprised if people try and fix things themselves first rather than take them back to the seller? That seems a rather natural response, and one that isn't unique to the tech sector - so it doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of tech support.
why dont they can Katz, or make him pay to post his useless babble.
I don't know what moron moderated that as flamebait, but personally I found it quite funny.
I like to call that gap JOB SECURITY.
Now, please leave it alone.
same goes for the west coast.
Irish Catholics also make up a large chunk of the Midwest population. Nearly every small town in rural Minnesota has at least two churches, usually a Lutheran one and a Catholic one.
I think Katz's article is a load of crap, but I hate it when people are so quick to play the race card, when race and/or religion never entered the discussion.
Here's another shocking stereotype: Midwesterners are far, far more likely to own cars.
Now, was that a fact of regional difference (the midwest is more spread out, making cars more important for daily life), or an antisemetic attack implying Jews can't drive (because the Northeast has a much higher concentration of Jewish Americans)?
Don't be such a dumbass.
We're still a fix-it country at heart?
People can't even change the oil in their cars anymore. Sheesh.
This seems to me to be a modern trend in business. Businesses in all sectors have discovered that you don't have to be good or provide a good product or service, you just have to be good enough. In fact it seems that businesses can maximize profits by being subpar. Consumers will often buy a cheap product that does 90% of what they want rather than an expensive product that does 100%.
This seems to be especially true with customer service. Providing the level of customer service to help the average user (oh, I have to plug it in?) and not providing the level of service desired by the "tech savvy" saves a lot of money for these companies.
It comes down to cheap, fast, good, chose any two. The population typcially goes for cheap and fast, and not good.
The Economics of Website Security
Happening in all fields. Take the motor industry for instance. 25 years ago anyone could service/fix the average car. These days it's all microprocessor controlled engines, satnav systems etc.
There are _two_ American Ways: the first was inherited from your ancestors (you can't buy it, there's no one that sells it, and in the remote case, you're a pioneer in this wild land, forced to survive using his brain. If something is broken, just fix it.). The second was developed in modern ages to support the growing industry and its need for customers (Don't fix it. It would take time and resources, and your time is money. Then, help our great nation and just buy another item).
As a techie, i'm fully with the -first- one.
Your statistics and analysis are extremely superficial. Maybe more blacks than whites know how to use cell phones because more blacks than whites own them? Maybe people know how to use TVs more than computers because TVs are 100 times less complex? Maybe divorced people are more tech savvy because the unsocializing effect of long hours dealing with computers leads to divorce? How did these things escape you.
I know what _every_ button on my TV remote does, but I'm still suspicious about those "Scroll Lock", "Break", and "SysRq" keys on my PC keyboard.
I can clear up the purpose of buttons for you, since I was also confused by them for a looong time.
Back in the old days, before GUI, when everyone used Unix, Irix, and other text-only operating systems, the "Scroll Lock" allowed a user to literally scroll up on the screen to see text outside the scope of the monitor.
This button still works in text mode of Linux, Unix, etc. In FreeBSD, for example, it allows me to scroll up about three screenfuls. While I am in "scroll lock" mode, all forthcoming screen output is paused; when I release scroll lock, it all appears.
The Break button allows you to suspend DOS programs so that, for example, you could read fast-scrolling output. Again, when you release that button, everything returns to normal -- the program continues execution.
Pressing Ctrl-Break exits a DOS program.
The "Prt Scrn" key allows you to take a screenshot of a Windows (and possibly XWindows... not sure) session. Pressing that button places the full-screen image into the clipboard, which you can then paste into some image editor.
I am sure that there are some other uses of these buttons, but these are the only ones that I am familiar with.
In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use.
Well, it has been up until now. In a few years, we may screw that up with all the HDTV crap.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
They are almost exclusively made by Microsoft.
It's true that the overwhelming majority of Americans prefer to fix their computers than to buy new. If I made computers I would empower users to do just that. But I'm don't and Microsoft does...
When my friends have computer problems I'm powerless to help them. How do I get rid of lurking programs that pop up advertisements? How do fix there computer if something screwed up their registry? Sometimes I am able to find help online but most of the time I'm not.
Microsoft software is fragile, undocumented, unpredictable and unfixable. It's not just end users who are frustrated using Microsoft products; techincal people get frustrated and angry too.
As a Junior computer science major, I know now more than ever that I don't know how to use all of the features of my computer. I guess that puts me in the non--tech-savvy half of the population.
--Ben
The only place that surveys seem to do some real good is on family feud.
I can definitely relate (as can most of the people reading this, otherwise they probably wouldn't even be on slashdot) to the feeling that there is almost a class separation between those in the know, and the Star Bellied Sneeches. The real question is, is it just a feeling, or is it really happening?
You could compare the technology gap between yourself and your non-tech savvy friends or parents to the same gap that probably existed when your parents were your age figuring out how to use the radio. But is it the same? Probably not. Computers are FAR more complex oranges than TV apples, and when there is so much knowledge to be gained, there is so much of an opening for a knowledge gap.
As someone else pointed out, this same gap exists between most people and doctors or lawyers, etc... The obvious difference is, you don't hire a doctor to come to your house and show you how to operate on yourself. There is very limited action needed by an end recipient of a doctor's or lawyer's care, where as with a PC you are simply shipped out the door of the computer store with a confusing manual and your 10 year old kid who will probably be hacking into NASA before you figure out how to check your email.
But then, even if the computer companies packed manuals 10 times bigger (like they did for DOS) than they need to, very few people read it, and those who read existing manuals are usually disappointed. Having written several manuals myself, I can state from experience that a user will even call up and complain that there is no help for the subject, and when you calmly walk them through the available help system that clearly defines the process set in place, you can leave that user with the comforted knowledge that they won't read the manual next time either.
Hence the acronym wars that start: RTFM, FAQ FAQ which of course used to be a list of answers to "Frequently Asked Questions" and now has turned into more of a required document listing something more like: "Questions we think will be asked frequently"
So what can we do??
Keep all information proprietary and share nothing creating an atmosphere of mystique and intrigue and separating even further the technologically skilled from the technologically billed?
This worked for a while, as the "Three Geeks in a Garage" companies skyrocketed to fame and fortune, but by now the big wigs have caught on. They've known how to keep geeks under their thumb doing their homework for centuries, and if we keep away all the information all it does is lock you even more securely in the niche carved for you in today's businesses.
I say do whatever you can. Educate those who you help, and help those who want to be educated. Make customer service a priority, not an afterthought.
Someday the phrase: "I hate computers" might just be a thing of the past...
I see some major problems with this study, the first being that, apparently, only 21% of their respondants were female.
You know what?
The computer is the most flexible and powerful tool man has yet invented. The TV, as Mr. Katz points out, is easy to use. A station boradcasts a signal, you receive it on your TV, and the picture shows up. What's there to understand about it? You turn a dial (push a button), the channel changes. You turn another and the volume changes.
Any device with a very limited scope of work is also easily understood. Toaster, microwave, VCR (minus programming of course), car, stereo, camera...
Compare this to the computer, which is doing work not even dreamed up just 20 years ago, and doing dozens or even hundreds of different tasks, all with the same piece of equipment.
If we asked people instead if they knew how the electron gun in the TV operated, how the TV camera converted images into TV waves, how these are beamed to space and back, converted again and thrown on a wire to your house...or for that matter, how the cable company can make sure that you have HBO and your neighbor doesn't...would people still say they understood their TV?
If we were to break the computer back into its functions, we would need dozens of devices hanging around our house. Starting with a typewriter. But most people threw those away, didn't they, because the computer, oft misunderstood, is still far more useful than a simple typewriter, and obviously people know it.
So, it seems to me computers are held to a higher standard of "understanding" than do other devices.
you REALLY should avoid open insult. We in Tech Support deal with twits like you who decide they'll "fix it", and then scream at us over the resulting evil mess they made.
Go to your doctor with such a tale. You'll be lucky if he ever agrees to see you again! No professional takes as much unmerited abuse as a tech support person. May you reap what you sow, you unmigitated ass!
Don't try to KNOW everything, just know how to FIND it.
I'm a midwesterner, I consider myself above-average tech-savvy (I have 3 computers running Linux that I use every day), I'm male, and I READ MANUALS. Yes, you read that right. When I was in the sixth grade, I got Sim City 2000 as a gift, I played for hours, and couldn't figure out how to make a city work, until I read the manual. When I understood the basics of the game, it was a lot more fun. Ever since, I read the manual for anything I buy more complex than my television. Why do I do this? Simple. The manual covers the basics of operation. By reading it, I can learn in fifteen minutes what might take me two hours to discover by trial and error. I can use the other hour and 45 minutes to figure out more advanced features and applications. Don't bash those of us who choose to read manuals. Our goal is the same--to understand our technology--we just take a different route.
The midwesterners grow up surrounded by tractors, combines, etc. They learn young how to fix that. And, hey, if they can fix a combine, how tough can a little bitty pc be?
Best Slashdot Co
Check out this song: "Every OS Sucks" by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie
It's probably more insightful than whatever drivel Katz is spewing today.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Certainly the preceeding sentence was a bit of a no-brainer (the real mystery is who the 20% are who DON'T understand better how to operate a TV). But looking a little deeper, there may be something we could take from the ol' tube.
TVs have gotten more complex without getting more difficult to operate at a basic level. Newer TVs have a lot more than 5 options. It's just that you can get by fine without ever touching most of them. (adjusting the tone, balance, antenna type, programming which channels to skip, turning the internal speakers on or off, selecting which type of closed captioning to use, etc.)
But the basic operation of TVs used to be more complex--the fine tuning dial, switching manually from VHF to UHF, horizontal hold (getting that baby set right was sure a pain on my fam's old TV), manual color adjustment, having to pick your butt up off the couch or exploit the labor of your chilluns to change the channel, etc. (though I suppose you could argue that the remote control makes it more of a mental exercise).
Perhaps computers ought to have the equivalent of automatic fine tuning ("plug-and-play" i/o "plug-and-pray"), horizontal hold without having to fiddle with the dial (no crashes without having to remember not to click the mouse or yawn too loud during a file download or whatever), ...can't think of a TV anology for this one, but I have to mention it (apt-get i/o downloading a service pack and hoping it installs and leaves your computer bootable) etc.
Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
First, I think that it's misleading to think that people who use something a lot are particularly knowledgable about that thing. Use has more to do with socio-economic realities than it does with knowledge of the underlying technology.
Second, "the market" for almost everything has is optimized for price, and the tech market is no different. It would be nice if there were more companies like Apple that provided more options (ease of usability), but most people buy things based on one thing... financial cost. I'd like to buy a tech product that has perfect documentation and user support and reliability, but I don't represent a significant demand to justify a supply. What's new?
Third, it seems like people don't like JK because he is provocative... in a flamebaiting sort of way. The article could have been presented in a much different light, but he chose to incite the tech community that reads this site. What does that say about the people who judge which articles get posted?
Television, meanwhile, continues its long reign as Americans' most beloved and comprehensible technology. In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use.
I got a great idea. Let's dumb computers down to the same level as the television so people can access the internet... we could call the invention Internetivision.
Will wonders never cease.
If you want an example of an industry which has abused its customers as much or more than the computer industry, though, I nominate the airline industry (motto: As long as they keep getting born faster than we can piss 'em off, we have a business). It's near impossible to make any money there as currently structured, which probably contributes to the problems they have w/ customer service.
Not a web designer.
One of my favorite examples of a poor grasp of technology was observed when I was in a cell phone store. The sales guy was setting up an account for me when this lady walks in. She told the guy her phone wasn't working, and she thought it was because she had left it on the dashboard in the sun (not a totally unreasonable idea). The guy looks at the phone and pushes the power button. When the phone comes on, the lady is quite surprised and asks how he did it. He then explains to her all about the power button, and how it works. She was surprised and hadn't realized that you could turn the phone on and off. Apparently, she had let the battery fully discharge and then when she plugged it in and charged it up, it didn't turn on automatically and she didn't know what to do.
It's funny how people's brains seem to turn off when they get near something high-tech, or really even something unfamiliar (e.g. people are constantly confused as to where they parked at ski resorts, yet they have no problems finding their parking spot at the mall/stadium/wherever).
Time to start working on your CI then.
If you live near an urban center, getting a CI equal to your age or higher is a noble goal. If you are not there yet, start buying motorboats, riding lawn tractors, chainsaws, bigger vehicles, snowblowers, gas-powered weed-whips, etc., and your CI will quickly rise. Good luck!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I'm impressed. I spend a couple hours each workday and a few weeks a year keeping up on 80x86 architecture developments and PCI and AGP bus features. Yet nearly half of the general public already knows this stuff inside out!
For the humor-impaired, what I wrote above was mainly to illustrate how "tech-savvy" is drastically different depending on who you talk to. For most folks I suspect that it means that they know to click "Start" on the windows menubar to "shut down".
One area of technology where really good repair manuals exist is automobiles. Any standard repair on a standard car is documented right down to the exact foot pounds to apply to the wrench. But do the mechanics who love cars work from the manuals? Mostly, no.
It has not much to do with loving or hating a technology; it's about cognitive mode. Most of us do reasonably well learning by seeing; only a minority handle manuals well. The current generation of computers - despite the GUIs - favor those who do well with manuals. Much of the strength of Linux is in the succinct quality of the INSTALL and README docs in most program tars. RTFM is the mantra of a technological niche built by-and-for those who do well by manuals.
But that particular sort of verbal (supplemented by diagrams) intelligence isn't the only smarts people have; it's not even the only sort of smarts that might serve a tech-lover well. For instance, do you want your high-tech battle system manned by nerds-with-manuals or by those with a good seat-of-the-pants feel for the system and quick reflexes? Some folks have both, but for the most part those good with manuals are in the ground crews, and the kid in the cockpit is smart about - and loves - tech in a different way.
___
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Should you blame the tech elites for this? No. Should you blame average Joe for this? No. Until such time as the user interface is as intuitive as talking to someone, or the tech change curve levels out and Joe can catch up, we need to just accept that there will be a gap between those who know about technology and those who know about other things. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve UI's, but it's not unnatural that this gap exists.
This only becomes a problem (if you consider it a problem) when the elites stick it to everybody else because they can. But tech people aren't the only ones who do this: look at lawyers and doctors. There is a similar knowledge gap in their fields; but there's no expectation that average Joe should be able to do his own dentistry, for example.
Read my keyboard review.
I can't help but notice how your argument to keep knowledge and skills out of the hands of lesser folk than yourself is along similar lines of thought in the days of slavery.
It went something like: Don't let them learn to read or write and they will have to stay subserviant to us forever [insert manical laughter]
If you want to be exhaulted for your knowledge, then you should teach those who come to you instead of kicking them away - you'll be revered as a very learned teacher instead of a self-centered programmer who needs to be toppled off his pedestal.
Food for thought. Mmmmmm foood....
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
In other news, 99 percent of respondents understand how to operate their thermostat better than a nuclear power plant.
This survey is only registering peoples *opinions* about their command of technology. Ask a four year old if she can fly and she will probably say yes, ask a forty year old and she'll know better. Perhaps what this survey is really demonstrating the complete lack of understanding that Midwesterners have about their computers and what they can do, while the Northeasterners understand that their computer can do much more than they use it for (I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just pointing out the flaw in drawing conclusions from such flawed data).
If someone in Dubuque bought their computer for AOL and email, and that's all they use it for, then when asked if they know how to use their computer they say "yes, of course, I email my friends all the time", perhaps not realizing that they can do more with it. Then you have someone in Rochester who bought their computer to telecommute, trade stocks, use broadband to listen to their old college radio station in Seattle, and create music. You ask him if he understands everything about his computer and he'll say "no, of course not. I want to learn Linux and how to upgrade my processor, and I want to install apache to host my own website".
The survey is merely opinion and self-preception. Sort of like how Woody Allen thinks he's an Adonis when he's not in front of a mirror.
For this survey to mean *anything* it would have to be based on performance evaluations. Ask everyone if they understand all of the features of their computer, then ask them to ping yahoo, partition their harddrive, upgrade the motherboard, flash their rom...then ask them again if they understand their computer.
..The gap between the tech-savvy and the techno-confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries. It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Open Source software is often lambasted for being harder to use than its proprietary Windows equivalents. On the other hand, it simultaneously has far better user support available. Proprietary software, being a product-based industry, cares more about shipping out new products than it does supporting what already exists. This comes naturally with the business model. They don't make money on support so it's very tempting to slack off. Open Source based business, in contrast, is purely a service industry. By very nature it results in far closer communication between users and developers. Open Source breaks down arrogance and elitism quickly as the development community expands. A customer cannot be neglected if it is also a co-developer. As the use of OSS continues to spread and more consulting firms spring up to meet the service need, I believe we'll see a flourishing of consumer friendly technology both on and off the desktop PC.
A cell phone. A pager. A GPS. A hotmail account.
Tell me who's more technologically with it, me, who can go away for a weekend and not be bothered, or the hoser who's dancing to the strings of his puppet master (ie, middle management) over some obscure database on a server no one knows about in a room without a door?
Too elite for a dictionary, apparently.
Who keeps modding this clown up?
For years I gave out old computers and my time to people I thought were smart enough to use it. This was cool as long as I was working and could afford small things for these friends such as a 20 dollar stick of ram or a modem.
Well bad economy, no money. These people continue to expect me to give it away for free despite knowing that I have a $4000 dollar a month mortgage and piling credit card debt. They come to my house, see my shiny fast computer and bitch and whine that theirs isn't as fast. Their shit constantly breaks and instead of learning something simple like put the CD in the drive, boot from it, reinstall OS they insist that I do it for them wasting 3 to 4 hours of my time for them.
I won't do it anymore. I just can't. I'm sorry Mr Katz if I sound like an elitist asshole but you try doing this for 6 years. Let's see your level of frustration after 6 years of trying to teach people the very basics of operating systems and watch in dismay as it goes in one ear and out the other. Operating systems are very simple.
1. create a partition
2. format partition
3. install OS
YET NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY THESE BRAIN DEAD UTTER WASTE OF HUMAN FLESH CANNOT LEARN THOSE 3 SIMPLE THINGS!
This last year has angered me very much at these people. The only problem that matters to them is their computer isn't as fast as mine. Doesn't matter that I gave it to them in the first place. They don't care that every month me and my wife are on the utter edge of chapter 11.
You call me an elitist for not wanting to help them anymore.
Mr. Katz, when the world stops breeding stupid people, I won't have a reason to carry this elitist attitude anymore.
Regards
--toqer
AWESOME! My CI is about 34 at the moment (between the wife and I. That's two Ve8ttes, a crate motor, a Saturn, a PT cruiser, a Weedwhacker, lawnmower and spare briggs'n'stratton. ah, 3_5_.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
I know this will probably piss some of you off but the fact is that we midwesterners are smarter than the people on the coasts.
Don't think so? Then explain why the highest average ACT composite scores are always found in the same few states: Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa. And they have been for YEARS along with the other Midwestern states.
Also, nationwide only 38% of high school students take the ACT, in the 3 states mentioned (WI, MN & IA) over 2/3 of graduating students take the ACT and these states STILL manage to have top scores on average. Compare this with New York and California where just over 10% of students take the ACT. (Year 2000 figures) And with only their top 10% of students taking the ACT, they still can't beat out the Midwesterner's scores.
Another thing about us Midwesterners, we're used to being ignored and having to do things for ourselves, so we're not afraid of jumping right in and trying to fix the problem ourselves. And we have a higher literacy rate than the "Coasties" so we're actually capable of reading AND understanding the manual.
Go ahead, get mad. Mod me down. It only proves my point.
I've always said this -
As technology gets "simpler" to use, the backend gets that much more complicated. To cover up for the interface, the automaticthisandthat, and generally everyhting else that makes the product almost operate itself, there's that much more technology, and operating instructions that went into building it.
UNIX is hard up front, but in that back, it's straight forward. Most GUI OSs (take your pick), are easy to use for the average consumer, but the backend is generally complicated.
This divide will grow wider and wider with the coming years, as will the digital divide of the people who can operate the devices, and those who build them - it's a logical progression.
Q: What do you think about American Culture?
A: I think it's a good idea.
(adapted from Gandhi)
...is that I like getting angry at JonKatz' drivel, since I just discovered the other day that I could filter him out... and as yet, I have not. Does JonKatz get paid to drool all over his keyboard, or is he like that crazy guy that spends all his free time (midnight to 6 am) reorganizing the local college radio station's music library for nothing?
"How did you learn to do all this?" is the most common question.
"Um, well, I know how to read and can use a mouse..."
I mean, c'mon, it's no more difficult than operating your VCR... er, bad example.
Tech know-nots have nobody to blame but their own ignornace and unwillingness to pickup a book and read. Here's a hint: BIG yellow book that says "Dummies" on it. Trust me, I own a couple myself.
Sapere Aude - Homer
All bad trends will eventually turn around
All good trends will continue indefinitly
It's like asking particle physicists to dumb down the math to the level of the average person.
It shouldn't happen
And it WONT.
Let them catch up!
> Answering the same question over and over to compensate for a bad manual or bad design
Who cares about intellectually stimulating? Sure, if I had the choice I would rather have a job I enjoy, and where I really make a difference. But I have to settle for meaningless Help Desk and Desktop Support jobs because that's all that's available. I would love it if a junior DB Admin or Web Dev position opened up, but I know they would look for one thing - experience. I have the know how (well, not bad for my age anyway), I have the degree (*snicker*), and I have to persistence and confidence, but I don't have the experience and that's all they want.
I'll gladly take that techie "burger flipping" job over being unemployed, thanks.
> Increasing the level of public technical knowledge frees up smart, hard-working people for more interesting and worthwhile jobs than clearing a phone queue
Where do you live that there is a deficit for this sort of position? Where do I sign up? If it wasn't for dumb users I, and I suspect many other people here, would be unemployed, regardless of how much we WANT a stimulating job.
As tech people isn't it the overall goal to assure that the common people have no need to learn about the technology behind a given product? Overall a tech divide is what we want. A tech-utopia would be something equivalent to that star trek episode. The one where all those people had no idea how anything worked, or why it was there, they only new that some ancient computer was running the world and everything worked out fine. In reality the Dummies series shouldn't exist. Hopefully this period where people are in need to buy learning materials, or attempt to fix their product are numbered, or at least limited to catastrophic occurrences. So the next time someone prints a story like this pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
You can't simply blame the users for not knowing how things work. You also have to blame the people creating the technology for not encouraging them to understand the stuff in the first place (M$ constantly trying to hide the file system from users is a good example of this). Any piece of equipment that could be tweaked, configured, or modified SHOULD come with books on how to do so.
Another excellent example that just sprang to mind is printers. When I purchased my first printer (A radio shack dmp130 dot matrix) it came with a book describing EXACTLY how to talk to it to use fonts, or address graphics. In other words, everything needed to write a printer driver (not really such a thing back then, but) came with the printer. You simply don't see these manuals and specs being shipped with modern day stuff, so even those who are curious about things don't have their curiosity encouraged by the manufacturers.
Two words: Gateway Country.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
When attempting to learn their way around a new purchase, 89 percent consult instruction manuals, poor saps.
The biggest tech lie is that people shouldn't need to read manuals. Could someone give me an example of one thing as complex as a computer that you don't need to read the instructions for (or be taught)?
> you'll be revered as a very learned teacher
Yep, revered and living in poverty, but noble nonetheless.
Keeping users stupid is the key to our survival. If computers were as easy as Mircowaves, we would be out of jobs (except the engineers among us, drat). Do you think there is a huge calling for Senior Microwave Tech Support right now?
Being able to use your computer with the same ease as a telivision would not require elevating the public's training to that of a astonaut. How nice of you to ponder whether you will pass on your infinite knowledge to the 'common man' 'As much as I'd like'. I find it insulting to other professionals (Economists, Doctors, Lawyers, etc) or anyone else not deemed computer worthy by your standards. This only reinforces the articles argument of "arrogant and elitist" attitudes in the tech industry. According to your argument it would not be beneficial for auto mechanics to have people to know how their car works. Because in reality all drivers are out to do is steal their jobs. Did you ever think that some people could give a flying fuck what a bit bucket is? They just want their computer to work.
... and furthermore
Not all the schools are at fault, and even those that are, aren't entirely at fault.
While I admit schools are certainly a prime source of censorship (even public schools), they can't be blamed entirely for not teaching the latest technologies.
The most affluent (and I use that term loosely) schools are still on a budget and usually in the minority as far as number of students "processed". Many poorer schools and school districts simply cannot afford to keep up with the rate of technological change - so how can they be expected to teach new technologies?
At the same time there have been cases where corporations (most noteably Microsoft and the BSA) have imposed stiff penalties against schools who attempt to use technologies "creatively" due to a limited budget. Instead of granting these stressed schools reduced-price or free software/hardware for educational purposes, the mega-corps drag them to court for copyright infringement.
Elitism occurs all to often in both developers, "technologists", and technology corporations all in the name of trade secrets and copyrightedness.
Please lay off the little guy who isn't as rich as you; doesn't live in your country; is not as smart as you; doesn't own as fancy a bike as you.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Be careful in attaching too much meaning to opinion surveys. All this survey tells us is how _comfortable_ these users are with technology, not how proficient they really are. This survey could tell us as much about demographic attitudes as it does about capabilities. For instance, your average user in a high-tech area might actually feel less capable than a user in a more agricultural or industrial area, simply because they are constantly surrounded by evidence of the the technology elite. Unless a study is done rigorously, preferably using double-blind testing, I'm going to be skeptical about its interpretation.
Actually, I was trying to be Insightful, not Funny.
I live in the Midwest, and even though we might be behind the rest of the U.S. in a lot of ways, there are still some bright and talented people here. Perhaps not as much as the West coast, since that is where the jobs are, but some things are more important than yet another job.
A good education helps teach you to think. Computers don't belong in schools for the same reason that calculators don't belong in basic math classes. It's one thing if you don't actually do all the addition, subtraction, multiplication and division yourself. It is quite another if you can't. The same applies to logical reasoning, grammar, and anything else that computers make easier.
Poor people. Damn elite. Let's hate them because they are smarter or richer. Because being smarter and richer is bad. Everyone should be as dumb and poor as us, that will make us feel better about ourselves. The sentiments in this article may be relevant, but the way it is phrased makes me sick.
I am sorry.. i can't understand this whine. People can and should help themselves. It matters not the color of your skin, your income group, etc. There are enough opportunities that if you want to, you can learn. However some people prefer to go frog gigging or play basketball to learn about technology. It is their choice, and I am not going to shed a tear for them. In the end, who is to say they are not happier than me?
I am neither foe nor friend to my brothers, but such as each of them shall deserve of me. And to earn my love, my brothers must do more than to have been born. I do not grant my love without reason, nor to any chance passer-by who may wish to claim it. I honor men with my love. But honor is a thing to be earned.
-Ayn Rand, "Anthem"
The midwesterners (of which I am one, so I can say this) say they are the most confident with their computers.
Of course, as anybody knows, you are better at EVERYTHING while drinking, including being quiet, driving and hitting on women.
"More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard. "
Gee, you don't say. Maybe thats because a TV has limited functionality when compared to a computer. Here is is another amazing fact "99.9% of the people surveyed understand how to work a toaster better then a Nuclear Reactor". Obviously the Nuclear reactor industry has something to learn from the toaster industry.
- WeaselGod
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet turbines
I can't believe any of the demographics. I am an over 50, white male from the northeast. According to this article, I can't even turn on a computer. I have a BS in Computer Info Sys, I had better keep that a secret, or I'll be hung by my ba--s. When will we stop bashing each other for what we do or don't know? Hey, some of my home computers are older than some Slashdot readers. I'm glad I'm old enough to NOT know everything about everything.
Don't you know that you're supposed to make the systems as confusing, byzantian and obfuscated as possible so that no one can ever replace you? YOU call it 'a million lines of obfuscated C'. I call it 'job security'. BWAAHAHAhaha...*cough* *choke*
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
What we need is a similar survey of other nations, so we CAN start to draw the conclusions about how people in general are dealing with this issue.
What we don't need is another bitc^H^H^H^Hcomment about how /. is anti-international. Relax and get back to the real issue, my friend, which is how we can get the banal and annoying Mr. Katz to STFU and go away.
Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
A television has limited function; you watch it, you adjust the volume, you change the channel.
Computers are two-way; you input from one of the many sources you can, the computer gives you a result (whether you like it or not)
Why even bother mentioning that?
Here in the Midwest, we are so starved for entertainment that we are forced to tinker with everything we buy just to pass the time.
A lot of the blame here seems to be aimed at the tech. industry.... People seem to think that the tech. industry isn't doing enough to explain things to your average user, or make them simple enough, or produce products that fit the average user's needs. Well, I'll certainly agree that this is all true to a certain degree, but I don't think that is where the majority of the problem lies. The majority of the problem lies not with the tech. industry for failing to educate the masses, but with the masses for failing to do anything to educate themselves.
I work at the local EB, and you'd be amazed at some of the customers we have in here. There are people who know absolutely nothing about the computer that they just purchased - don't know the RAM, speed, HDD space, nothing! This is on a machine that was just purchased a day ago...and all that information is available right on the box! Most people, when they go out to purchase a car, take a look at some basic information...type of transmission, MPG, airbags, ABS, number of seats...you get the idea. Most people (from what I've seen at EB) do not do the same thing with technology.
How much can you expect the tech. industry to educate/provide for the masses when they're not even willing to read the label on a package?
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
How about the largest industry in the world - the automotive industry? Where in your new car's owner's manual does it tell you how to fix problems with the automobile? They hide tech more than anybody and they are very successful.
News for the CFD community http://www.cfdreview.com
The problem with schools is its institutional values. They feel that liberal courses much more than useful courses like typing class. I'm sorry, the average person I know uses a computer much more often than he/she does most mathematical theorums I've been force fed.
Meanwhile, while I was being assigned value based on my physical abilities in Gym class, I was also developing my own way to type. Once I finally was old enough to realize I should take a typing course, it was too late. I get annoyed trying to type the "right way" (home row) because it's frustratingly slow. However, I realize that if I could get used to it, I probably could type much faster than my current method.
But thanks anyway, those Gym classes taught me valuable life lessons on what society really values. I see posters hanging up all over school equating hockey players, football players, and other meat heads with "Heroes" branded across them. I'll puke! In a burning building or medical emergency I can think of a few REAL heroes I would rather have on my side than some brain dead jock.
If you think that lower costs for companies translate into lower costs for consumers, I have a bridge to sell you. Most markets actually have very little competition in them and prices are fixed so that shareholders and upper management can take away massive profits. Could Microsoft's costs be any lower? Sure, cut their programmer's salaries. Would your copy of XP be cheaper? Nope. Would Bill Gates get richer? Yup.
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
Keeping users stupid is the key to our survival. If computers were as easy as Mircowaves, we would be out of jobs
Keeping the Eloi stupid is the key to our survival. If self-defense were as easy as picking berries, we would be out of meat to eat.
Can anybody see any difference between the tech industry and the Morlocks from H. G. Wells's novel The Time Machine (not the movie, which blows)?
Will I retire or break 10K?
The companies that visited my college wanted people with high GPAs. PERIOD. The person could have been a brain-dead moron who is exceptionally good at the books, but never installed an OS or database or web server or whatever might interest them in their career. And THESE are the IT professionals of today.
God, I remember some of my peers laughing when I asked them if that shiny new web page they just created looking right in Netscape. They said, "Who cares, everybody uses IE anyway." Then I asked if they prefer a Linux or Windows web server, hoping to spark a conversation, and they tell me, "What? Linux is for hackers." And then I ask them what language they coded it in, and they tell me "HTML". Then I view source and see the following line:
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
Congratulations, you have a high GPA AND you figured out how to use FrontPage. Yet, they will be the ones to get the jobs.
(To be fair, I should mentiond these are MIS majors, and not Computer Science majors. The average CS major at our school knew a helluva lot more - just no social skills)
Thank goodness there will always be work for copy editors in the future! I thought about correcting the spelling and grammar in your post, but then I'd have to charge you. It's a capitalist world, after all.
Levity aside, what you're arguing for smacks of protectionism: My skills are great, but I have to prevent the Morlocks who call my tech-support line from learning how to do things for themselves, or I'm out of a job. Not only is that a piss-poor way of treating people (ever get sneered at by an obnoxious tech who's read one more manual than you have?), but it creates the impression that techs are inventing crises to stay busy, as many commentators thought after Y2K fizzled.
Anyone who regularly reads or posts to Slashdot knows that computers really aren't that difficult to learn with a little effort. I enjoy bringing people up to my level. If that means that I have to strive for an even higher level to stay employed, that's the way it goes.
--- Work, worry, consume, die. It's a wonderful life. -- Bill Griffith
Hey, don't knock the Great American Way!
What if all Katz stories were only available to subscribers?
I really think us folk who haven't paypal'd a subscription yet, shouldn't be allowed the priveledge of reading Katz stories.
Umm... auto mechanics? They have screwed unknowing customers since the dawn of time (err.. at least as long as cars have existed). Doctors suggest unneseccary procedures and drugs. Salesmen (all types) push features and additions that they know the customer will not need or even want. etc etc etc.
This has always gone on, and always will. It's not right but it is the way it is...
What?? Where are the 20% of the people that are having a hard time with a TV? Definitely something that we need to ponder long and hard about because it just doesn't make sense.
The Red Pill
Exactly... Attempting to make a comparison between people's grasp of how to use a television and how to use a computer is pointless.
Can a device really get much simpler to use than a TV? You press "power" and it starts working. Then you select a station to watch. All the rest of the stuff is generally unnecessary. (How often do you play with the "tint" control, really?) In fact, try messing up all of the controls (contrast, color, tint, etc.) on your average set, and then turn it off and wait for someone to come along and try to watch TV.
I bet you'd be surprised how many people freak out and exclaim "My TV is broken!" - and can't figure out on their own how to fix it.
Computers are supposed to be much more complex than a television. Otherwise, they'd be too limiting to serve all of their intended purposes.
From the beginning, computers were designed by and for people who found them interesting enough to invest a large amount of time in learning and mastering them. (Remember how the early home computers included a BASIC programming reference guide as part of the users' manual?) They never intended *everyone* to become proficient with computers. Like many things, they were a hobby for those who were inclined to tinker with them.
Sure, we've come a long way in the last 10 years or so. But still, computers (like medicine) evolve so rapidly, you still have to be committed to an ongoing time investment to keep up. Otherwise, you'll be stuck knowing nothing but, say, Windows 3.1.
Why does Katz make the assumption that those 3% must be "tech veterans?" if anything, they are morons.
The tech sector was elitist before it became mainstream because nobody understood the technology so it made us proud. Back then it was a problem. Now it's a necessity. Why? Because everything was fine when nobody that understood computers cared. Then somebody got that wild bug up their ass to convince everyone they needed computers. Not special computers that did just what they needed, ordinary PCs that were general purpose. They said "It doesn't work? It's too confusing Let's just fix it by making things simpler!" and when they couldn't fix it everyone said "Why doesn't it work?! Why is it so confusing?!" It's because general purpose computers were never designed for special purpose jobs. When you make them simpler it removes their power and flexibility. When you make them more flexible they become more confusing. We need to hurry up and get "idiot box" information devices for ma and pa working so they can forget about using general purpose computers. That will solve a lot of problems.
I disagree with mostly all of it but whatever. Surveying 3000 adults for a study like this isn't enough. A more comprehensive study needs to be done. For instance, I'm African-American, Black or whatever the fucking PC term is. I'm 22 and tend to think I know a little about computers at least enough to not be totally ignorant. That said blackplanet.com has a shit load of African-American's online every single day. I've never seen it go under the 20,000 mark and mind you this is just one website. I don't use it everyday or even every month but everytime I do go there (maybe every 2 months) there is always a large number of people on. As for others i'd be hard pressed to know anything but from my view of the world conducting a study/survey like this tends to be futile. Technology is just the modern day equivalent of the cavemans sharpened rock for an axe. They are just tools, except these aren't for survival; better communication, yes. Some will know how to use them and others won't. However if a study/survey is to be done 3,000 people isn't enough, if you could get at least 5,000 from every state you'd probably get better numbers.
Ok lemme stop rambling.
I agree. A lot of businesses do their competing at the legal and political levels. Enron used soft money to influence who regulated their industry. Many companies push dubious patents and threaten litigation.
We'd all be a lot better if big companies actually competed in a free market. This is not a big ask. They're always crowing about how wonderful and necessary free markets and global capital are.
Also, I think that we should have people of average or below average intelligence build our software everywhere , and not just at M@crosoft. That would show those elitist guys!!! They have a lot of nerve, studying and working hard and stuff. They are very bad.
Also, we should remove cpus from computers, so they can be easy to use like televisions.
So why is the NE (along with the Bay Area) such a concentration of high tech if it is so techno-dumb? I don't see high tech companies flocking to the mid west. Also, what about all those little schools like Harvard, MIT, BU, NE, etc that are in the NE?
Who did they survey, the illiterate?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Of course most people understand TVs. They have a single purpose. But that understanding is limited to the USE of a TV, not the repair or creation of it. The same with an automobile, which is another complex contraption. Most people understand how to use one, partly because of education on it, partly because of a clarity of purpose, and partly because of an evolved, and unified user interface.
Computers try to be the "do everything machine" which dilutes this clarity of purpose when compared with, say, a TV or a VCR (which people still have trouble understanding.) And it doesn't help that there are a million ways to accomplish the same task, reducing the usefullness of training.
If you learn to drive stick, you're pretty much set for the basics no matter what car you use. But more importantly, is that no matter what car you use, there are always certain fundamentals (gas, speed, ect...) that you need to watch (and they're mercifully small compared with the things you need to track on a computer) and you always know what your goal is in a car: you want to get from point a to point b.
Almost all normal phones are pretty much the same. The interface is usually the same (and uncomplicated) and again, you know what you're trying to do and have a limited set of variables involved. Migrate this to a cell phone and you have a variety of interfaces (how many ways are there to pick up a call and hang up afterwards? or to place a call?) and most cell phones do more than just call, providing complex menus and such that further confuse the average user.
So yes, part of it is a lack of education. Obviously these things possess the capability to be understood by those who dedicate the time. But part of it is a lack of solid, unified user interfaces and a clarity of purpose (which in some part can't be avoided.)
And to that poster up top who was worried about someone taking his job. If you teach someone to drive, will you put the mechanics out of business? No. We need to "teach people to drive." All of us "mechanics" will still have job security. More so, the more people that know how to drive.
If you don't read the manual for your new farm equipment you might lose a limb. Strong reason to not do "trial and error".
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
(null)
As a Californian who's worked with IT folks in New York City, I can verify the patience issue. Some of the NYC folks were quite bright, but their lack of patience with computers and with themselves really handicapped them. Some of this stuff is just hard, and one has to take time to learn it well.
I do tech support for cable modem access in the midwest. About a third of the time someone needs help, they are actually smart enough to figure things out. They don't need me to hold their hand setting up mail in Outlook Express, they just want the mail server info. They usually have a pretty good idea of whats wrong before they even call me. The rest of my calls are idiots. Most don't understand "Internet Explorer is not your default browser. Would you like to make it your default browser?" Some people come from AOL, and don't understand anything thats happening after they switch to cable modem. Most often though, I find that many people have problems understanding who supports what. I'm always getting calls about monitor problems, hard disk problems or scan disk errors. Sorry dude, your ISP don't cover that. Or they buy an ethernet card from a shady company from Tiawan and they want me to help.
Lets not take things too seriously. After all, its just a game...
Uh, my wife and mom have me beat when it comes to dishwasher, washer, dryer, microwave and range. However, that's because they use the darn things all the time. My mom can't take a PC apart and install a new HDD, but she doesn't have to, because she can ask me. OTOH, I taught her how to use e-mail and a word processor and she didn't miss a beat. Ditto for my wife. I didn't show them how to write C++ because they didn't have a pressing need for that either.
Dear Jon, perhaps you can take a deep breath and realize that the fact that your 85 year-old neighbor can't toggle a jumper on a SCSI controller doesn't mean the computer industry is falling appart with apathy or that the world is coming to an end. It's just that he has no need to do it.
Please do not mis-interpret the statistics indicating that Americans of Asian ancestry are most likely to use the Internet. Due to immigration and, specifically, the hordes of Chinese fighting with tooth and nail to enter the United States of America (USA), the bulk of Americans of Asian ancestry are Chinese. They were not born here. They were born overseas.
These Chinese have flooded into engineering and business schools at American universities. So, naturally, they would be more inclined to use the Internet than other "ethnic" groups.
This skew in the statistics should not be taken as a sign of superiority. Specifically, this skew should not be taken as supporting the "model minority" myth.
Whatever positive attribute might be implied by Chinese "superiority" in using the Internet is wiped out many times over by the many other negative attributes. For example, many of you readers are currently college students. Just visit a local meeting of Amnesty International . While your engineering classes are flooded with Chinese, there will be virtually no Chinese faces at the local meeting of Amnesty International. The Chinese excel at engineering concepts like network connectivity but refuse to grasp basic concepts of humanity.
As another example, most of you are familiar with hi-tech Taiwan. The Chinese students in Taiwan consistently outperform American students on tests of mathematics and science. Indeed, the typical Chinese student is more likely to understand and to use the Internet than the typical American student.
Yet, virtually no American student would admire the Nazis. By constrast, the Chinese (from mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong) have long admired Hitler and his Nazi ideals.
So, my point is the following. The statistic (in the original SlashDot article) claiming that Americans of Asian ancestry use the Internet at a higher rate than other Americans need not warrant much concern.
That as people grow older they want to put up with constantly changing technology less and less? And it doesn't matter if it's cell phones in this century or automobiles in the last. Eventually technology always passes by a persons WANT to keep up with it.
Comparing TVs to the internet is also completely meaningless. TVs require virtually NO internevtion to operate it's by it's nature a passive activity. The net by it's nature is an active activity. A person does not choose one BECAUSE of the other. They choose one because of what they WANT out of it. Even if you had a computer that was 100% functional without flaws all the time, getting anything out of the net reqires one to pay more attention. It's work. Hell even 100 channels of TV are too much for some people to want to wade through.
And I'm not talking about ignorance or stupidity. I'm talking about WANT. Some people don't WANT to deal with technology on any level no matter how flawless or "easy" you make it.
YOU'RE the one whos elitest. This entire article is one giant freudian slip! You actually think that everyone on the planet HAS to be completely up to date with the latest and greatest. That's bullshit and that's your elitism showing.
This article says loads more about yourself than any other point you tried to being up.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
What about the invention of fire?
that made no sense whatsoever. learn to speak english
Its survival of the fittest, we arent a team, its every man for himself.
If you want everyone to make the same wage i suggest communism.
If we give everyone knowledge fine i'm cool with that as long as we dont keep the current system with have, however if we are going to be capitalist, I'm not going to lose my job and starve so someone lesser than me can have knowledge.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
How many people really do fix something when it breaks? Fixing something could apply to anything: replacing a screw, taping a damaged cable, or patching a hole in the wall. These are not tech-savvy actions.
I would go as far as saying that 97% of people actually go out and buy new things to replace their old things instead of fixing them- desipte what they say in the survey. Most people (not only Americans) have this tendancy to always want the newest things that they can get their hands on. This is why people lease a new car every year or two instead of buying a good, slightly used car.
As "tech savvy" as many people are getting, they will never be good at everything. People are skilled at different trades. Some are skilled at many trades, but nobody is good at everything, and most people don't know tech. Besides- Programming a VCR and installing AOL doesn't make you "tech savvy" even if you are dumb enough to believe it.
This article is stupid.
Doesn't this show up with other products as well (at least to some extent?) Look at cars for example. 10 years ago I can remember replacing being able to to basic repair on my cars, nowadays about all I can do is check/replace fluids. Open the driver side door, HAL...
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
Not to be sexist, but most women simply don't care how things work. They want to click a button and have it simply work. There is a reason that women make up maybe 5% of the techno-nerd population.
I find that most of the problems I see when people aren't sufficiently tech savvy is that they're too afraid to click around and try things. How many of us learned computing completely formally, with books and classrooms? How many more just clicked/typed around, tinkered, and learned from what happened?
The illusion of system fragility is what keeps people from learning software most effectively: by actually using it, screwing up, and then fixing it.
I suspect years of shoddy software and hardware have frightened people into thinking that if they make a mistake, the entire system melts down. How many newbie users assume the blue screen of death is their own fault? More than you think. "I don't click that application anymore...that shuts down my computer."
I can't decide if software is getting more or less reliable, so I guess the next question is whether new generations of users will have better luck with their systems and more confidence.
The only situation where it helps us, is in extremely competitive markets like Intel vs AMD, but in terms of most computer markets, theres too many monopolies.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Katz is once again missing the point. So what if most people throw their tech out when it breaks? When my pants break, I send them to good will and buy new ones. A friend of mine is a seamstress and fixes broken clothes and frequently makes them in the first place. She's not so good with the computer though. And I don't see any reason why she should be. There is too much information in the world for one person to be knowledgeable about everything. The best you can hope for is to know a little about alot and a lot about a little and try to surround yourself with people whose lots correspond to your littles.
The same patters that Katz is bemoaning in the tech industry are true of clothes (I can probably sew a button on, but anything more complicated than that and I'm lost) and cars (I can change a tire, but that's probably about it) and books (if it's not in English or Spanish, I'm lost) and bridges (I drive over them. They don't break) and . . . you get the idea.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
forget about VCR's and digital cameras, the tech gap is EVERYWHERE!
I believe one of the most fundamental differences between a tech-savvy person and a non-techie (all other things being equal) is that at the core the tech-savvy person isn't afraid of the technology.
Put a 10 year-old in front of a computer and watch them go wild, trying everything out, then put a 50 year-old in front of the same computer and marvel at their fear of breaking the thing by pressing a mouse button.
To address the gap specifically, look at cars. 30 years ago, new cars could all be worked on by most auto-savvy people. now we look around and find that there are more than a couple makers that won't allow you to turn off the check-engine light until you come in for your $5000 dealer oil change (exageration intended).
Most people accept this because cars of today have engines half the size producing twice the power and a fraction of the emissions as those from 30 years ago. It's a compromise.
Now let's apply this to the computer industry, and we can see the parallel is indeed there. The compromise lies in the fact that computers today can do quiteliterally THOUSANDS of things the Apple II could not. 40 years ago, it truly was possible for someone with motivation to be a master in the realm of computing -- now a person considers himself lucky to truly master one tiny specialised field in 5 years.
It's not abusing the consumer, it's giving people more of what they want at the expense of them not understanding *everything*.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
To say I have an attitude about what I know? Definitely I have an attitude about knowing. The reason being is that it has taken me 20 years to get this far. I have been working with computers and computer systems since the CP/M days. It was a hobby that turned into a passion that turned into an obsession that turned into a Way Of Life.
Why SHOULDN'T I have an attitude when someone who uses the product I create doesn't BOTHER to read the operating instructions, and can't even tell me what Operating System they are running on?
Should I coddle the morons? Or should I try to explain, and when they realize they have no clue, ask them if they understand? Only to find out later that when they said "Oh....I see" they were talking about the stack of donuts in the other room and not what I had been painstakingly detailing for them about the system they NEED to use?
Should I be in awe of a Manager who is terrified to talk to me or ask a pertinent question because I have a tendency to "Talks to technical" when it is supposed to be this persons job to rate my performance?
This is the real world. If you want to succeed, there HAS to be a desire to KNOW. If I can take the time and the effort to KNOW, they should take the time and the effort to LEARN. I should not have to tolerate Ignorance. They would not tolerate it from me if each time I went to them and responded to their questions with "you know...I just don't really know".
You keep going until you die..."Me".
Having worked in retail selling PCs and then having worked for a large ISP doing tech support and writing technical support content, my opinion of the matter, whatever it is worth, is that no one has realized the basic fact that support works only when both sides meet at the middle.
First of all, companies spend too much on supporting the least profitable customers. There are, unfortunately, some people who are just too stupid to use certain technologies. That may not fit in with the idealism of the present age, but it is a fact. At the same time, savvy users are often denied the online resources / self help data which is cheap to provide. No one should ever have to dig, for example, for IP, DNS, etc. setttings for their ISP. The ISP I use doesn't have a single page written with the basic numbers that I need to configure a PC, but they'll spend countless hours writing "How to use e-mail" documents and supporting users who delete their WINNT directory "because they're using Windows 2000."
Learning to use technology requires the affirmative and volitional use of brainpower. The worst disservice you can do to support a person is to tell them what keys to press, and in what order, without telling them why. This may be a short term fix to get a customer off of the phones, but it results in countless followup calls which make hold times longer, support more expensive, and therefore services for expensive. A little user education goes a long way. Consumers should be expected to open up their minds and learn about the technologies they use. If a 3 year old can use a PC - and many, many do, there is no reason why a full-grown person cannot spend a little time in the evenings educating themselves in whatever way they are most comfortable with.
"I don't have the time." What this means is, the individual would rather watch Survivor than spend 30 minutes in their evenings learning a little bit about the technology they use. Well, that's *their* problem. In the end, the decreased productivity they experience, all of the time saving measures they cannot avail themselves of, etc. far exceeds the simple initial investment of RTFM. How often I've watched people in my own office lay out little bulletins and brochures using scotch tape and scissors when they could have done it in a fraction of the time using only the most basic functions of Word. It's not as if you have to be a computer geek, just a reasonably educated computer user. Anyone who has ever put the time in ought to know that the investment pays off, frees up time, money, and resources.
Paranoia about support boundaries. Several companies I've worked for have paranoia about supporting products beyond the most rudimentary tasks. An example of this is setting up a Linux system to work with an ISP. Write the damn documentation, put it online, and then put a disclaimer on it saying, "Use this information at your own risk. We don't support it and are not responsible for anything that happens to you including spontaneous combustion if it all goes awry." Whatever the company's legal department is happy with. Some companies do this now and it makes life easier and saves a phone call, which costs companies so much money.
So much time has been spent catering to the user's ignorance that consumers are not expected to take some effort to learn about the products they buy. Every time something is dumbed down to the point a monkey can use it, inevitably two things happen:
Ideally, ample online/self-help resources ought to be provided by every company that manufactures a product, because it is cheap; in fact it costs almost nothing. You spend the time hiring some technical writers or knowledge engineers to put together a knowledge base or support web, then just have a few maintainers on. Agents can then use this information for support, and so forth. This is infinitely cheaper than doing phone support.
Then, there ought to be tiered pricing for support, depending on the issue. Phone support ought not necessarily be free. People who expect companies to bend over backwards for them have no conception of revenue models. Support is *expensive*. There is no reason, for example, a company should be forced to support someone who will not crack open a manual. What this does is drive up wait times, resulting either in customer dissatisfaction, or the company has to hire more tech support people, which costs money, cuts into profits, resulting in the expense being passed onto the consumer.
But consumers want everything dirt cheap. That's Capitalism. What they don't want is the very basic reality that you get what you pay for. Take low-margin industries like PC retail. Sure you can buy a bargain basement clone with who-knows-what in it, but somehow when it works like crap, the indignant dissastisfied-customer attitude doesn't impress me. Support and quality ought to come at a premium. If customers didn't buy technology like they buy clothes pins, like "they're all the same," maybe they wouldn't be bitten so hard by poor support and low quality.
Inevitably every customer I've dealt with has some "10 year old whiz kid" in the family who *thinks* he knows everything about computers. Occasionally this is the case, but more often my experience has been that for some perverse reason it has become *fashionable* to be a computer nerd, and so a lot of people who know how to mouse around in Windows call themselves experts for the supposed status it brings (I went to school in the 1980s and the opposite could not have been more true). All technology is not build the same. All companies are not built the same. Sometimes, yeah, you get what you pay for. Deal with it.
Learn to read manuals and use the library and especially online resources. Or else get someone to teach you. Or pay for the support that you require that so few others, who have the ability to learn on their own, do.
I had no one to teach me about computers or technology, or how to work my VCR. I had to sit down and learn it, and it didn't take up all of my free time; I didn't have to dedicate my life to figure out how to stop the damn blinking 12:00 on my VCR. It took 5 minutes. 5 minutes people are not willing to spend. And in 90% of the cases not because they are working 24/7 and don't have a single second to figure it out, but because they are lazy and would rather indulge themselves in whatever banalities pass for entertainment in the world these days. I am not sympathetic. There are so many resources available to people, and the time required to learn the basics of anything so considerably small compared to the time-saving benefits and payoffs, that I don't see why I should care about this gap.
Somewhere in America there is an idiot whining about the fact that he has to learn to cursor around the menu system on his VCR, while an 8 year old is installing FreeBSD in his free time.
Welcome to the 2000s. This is life. I wonder if people whined about having to learn to read following the invention of the printing press and the onset of the Enlightenment, and eventually the industrial revolution.
Carry your own weight, or get out of the road, maggots.
Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features,
Heh, I don't know how to operate all the features of my computer. Hell, considering the things can do virtually anything, I'd be surprised if anyone did. Can't even get sound working on my potato box - grumble (I'm a software developer/CS grad)
More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Well jeez man, a pair of sneakers are easier to operate than a 747 but you don't see anyone complaining about that. A more powerful device usually has a more complicated interface especially in the case of computers. A tv is like a single program with a specialized user interface, most functional computers consist of thousands of programs making use of a semi-variable multipurpose interface.
http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml
From that page:
The Atanasoff-Berry Computer was the world's first electronic digital computer. It was built by John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford Berry at Iowa State University during 1937-42. It incorporated several major innovations in computing including the use of binary arithmetic, regenerative memory, parallel processing, and separation of memory and computing functions.
On October 19, 1973, US Federal Judge Earl R. Larson signed his decision following a lengthy court trial which declared the ENIAC patent of Mauchly and Eckert invalid and named Atanasoff the inventor of the electronic digital computer -- the Atanasoff-Berry Computer or the ABC.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Well, I suppose it was inevitable that Katz and I would eventually go toe-to-toe.
First of all, Jon, you need to learn how to use commas properly. Reading this essay was like trying to drive behind a garbage truck. Perhaps you should paste a warning in your title: "Caution, this essay makes frequent stops."
By way of example, please have a look at the sentence, "We are still, at heart, a fix-it country, given the chance, something much of the tech world seems to have forgotten." I simply can't believe that anyone passing himself off as a writer would construct such a monstrosity. Even a grade-schooler could do a better job. This is merely one example of your comma-related problems, Jon. There are far too many similar examples; to call out each one in detail would take ages.
Apparently you also have severe problems understanding how to use punctuation within a parenthetical comment. I am referring to the sentence that begins "(And no wonder. Tech support is synonymous with anxiety and indifference)." Here you have not one, but two complete sentences, inexplicably wrapped in parentheses. I have no idea what your motivation was. In any case, when you have a complete sentence in parentheses, the punctuation goes inside the final paren.
Jon, I hate to break the news to you, but stopped reading after encountering this error. I simply can't abide a poseur such as yourself, who can't even avoid simple grammatical errors. If you want people to take your writing endeavors seriously, I heartily recommend that you take a course in remedial grammar, before posting another story to Slashdot.
Not intending to start a flame war here, but I'm wondering... just how much of /.'s audience are Americans these days? It seems to me (as a non Merkin) that everything Jon Katz writes and almost everything on the site is written with the assumption that the reader is an American. This is as interesting as it is false, and it is slightly alienating, since it is a barier to participation.
Any thoughts?
Honestly, does anybody know what he's rebelling against? Generally Katz's stories have gotten progressively worse but this is something that truly feels like it came out of left field? I was unable to determine the point of this rant. Tech support never any help?... I've almost always gotten quick and concise help. The whole industry a failure?... uh huh, whatever. Maybe Katz feels he should run the whole show. Then we could have an industry as pointless and convoluted as this rant.
Studies show the dumber you are about something, the smarter you think you are about it.
--
You sure got a purty mouth...
I learned everything I know about computers, math, science, technology, etc. by having the motivation and intelligence to teach MYSELF.
If you're too lazy or stupid to educate yourself, it's not my problem or anyone else's. It's yours.
I mean, we still have millions of people in this country who believe the world was created in 6 days 6,000 years ago. These same people also believe in the powers of John Edwards and Miss Cleo. I have no sympathy, nor do I have a problem getting wealthy off of these people's willful ignorance.
- end of rant -
jon, you make it sound like this is only a problem in america. it may have slipped your mind, but there is a whole world out there.
here in new zealand, we have these problems too. and there are more countries on this planet which I'll wager aren't much different.
I don't know about america, but in NZ, people are also misers. they want to pay nothing, but they want infinite amounts of service.
is it when they don't get that service that they turn to their own drastic measures?
or do they rely on their friends telling them not to bother with tech support?
or is it just ignorance/arrogance on their own part assuming their zero knowledge is better than the knowledge of those on the helpdesk?
either way, I subscribe to the elitist philosophy. I can't stand it when stupid people try to use computers. But they're everywhere. Users, script kiddies, everywhere.
but I have to ask.. what would be worse? if only some of us know about computers, or if everyone knows about computers?
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
On the one hand, computer technology has brought a magnificent new palette of possibility to consumers. On the other hand, computer technology is so complex that it often poses more of a problem than a solution to its intended users. Only the most dedicated consumer can keep up with the flood of innovation and new applications that assault the computer technology marketplace. In fact, thousands of books and magazines - not to mention dozens of publishers - practically owe their existence to the ill-conceived designs that have been brought to market by computer technology manufacturers. After all, someone has to attempt to figure out this morass, as certainly most consumers aren't able to. The fact is that too many consumers end up devoting more time to learning about 'technology', than doing the work that is supposed to be enabled by technology. As I recall, within the last several years the Bureau of Labor Statistics has conducted studies that indicate no net gain in productivity in the workplace between those that do, or do not, use computers. One way to characterize the problematic ease-of-use issues in computer technology is by quoting the title of a recent book authored by Alan Cooper, founder of Cooper Interaction Design ( http://www.cooper.com ) - "The Inmates are Running The Asylum". Cooper labels his process 'Interaction Design'. Interaction Design is a new precursor, as well as an integral part of product development for many new technology products. Many well-established technology companies have begun to utilize interaction designers in order to both fulfill their customer's needs, and maximize development efficiencies. In Cooper's book the 'inmates' are hardware and software engineers, and technology marketers, who continually look for - and add - 'new and better' features to their creations - all with insufficient regard for what the primary mission of enlightened - in our case - computer technology development could be - that is, to discover, via careful investigation what the 'essential' goals are that consumers want to accomplish with technologies, and then use technology 'appropriately' to create solutions that enable just those goals. Feature creep and bad product design are anathema to interaction designers. And it's feature creep and bad design (from a user's perspective) that have caused the massive user problem that is today's computer. Interaction designers discover the goals of the target consumer, and create rich templates that are - ideally - followed nearly to the letter by software/hardware engineers. From there, a product is forged, and then handed off to interface designers who now have a much easier time rendering the product useful, instead of having to deal with a mish-mash of features that have been inserted into a product just because the programmer, or marketer, thought it would be 'cool'. Many consumers profess to love the power that technology gives them, and are not unlike most general technology customers in this regard. However, most consumers like - and use - technology only insofar as it provides immediate feedback. I have yet to see even an informal poll that asks how hard consumers want to work in order to extract even the most basic features promised by computer manufacturers. My guess is that only a very small percentage of consumers have a high tolerance for the frustration that results from poor system architecture and interface design. Manufacturers have recently begun to recognize the sorry reality of technology design from a user-concentric perspective, as illustrated by the introduction of many new technologies that appear (at least on the surface) to be more 'intuitive' (however, the term 'intuitive' itself belies one of the computer industry's major problems relating to human interface; that is, the term 'intuitive' is meant to imply that within the boundaries of an already insufficient model for interaction, ease-of-use has gotten somehow easier). I believe the trend towards increased ease-of-use will continue, but it will continue at a snail's pace, unless computer technology designers get serious about designing technology with and eye toward the accomplishment of specific, delineated goals, rather than the construction of feature-burdened, maze-like products, software and manuals that offer more frustration than enlightenment. Hardware and software engineers design computer technology systems. Even as those engineers have computing experience (they have to), they are - like it or not - working as technologists first, and consumers second. Technology development is their job; it's what they get paid to do. There has been a lack of focus on ease-of-use in the computer industry. Design, functional design with an eye toward helping the user accomplish specific goals, has not been the rule. Tremendous pressures are placed on manufacturers - both large and small - to consistently come up with enticing new features and designs. These efforts are concocted to create demand for yet another way to "help you become more productive" etc., etc. Computer technology manufacturers - especially in these days of rapid product co modification - simply don't have the time or resources to come up with designs that are optimally thought out from the perspective of helping consumers to accomplish their goals. Too many products try to be too many things for too many consumers. Features are crammed into new offerings with insufficient forethought about how those features will be accessed or used. This isn't to say computer manufacturers haven't tried to create good designs, and that a few haven't come close, but those few are large exceptions to the rule. A further complication is the constantly accelerating speed of change that technology itself brings to bear on the computer technology scene. One no less notable to the technology scene that Ray Kurzweil http://www.kurzweilai.net makes powerful arguments for what he labels the "Law of Accelerating Technology Returns". Kurzweil claims that technology has the phenomenon of accelerating itself to the point of eventual exponential rates of change. We are currently living, claims Kurzweil, in the midst of the rise of a technology development curve that has begun to approach large exponential rates of change. Powerful arguments can be made for the rate of technological change accelerating to a point of where it's outside the boundary of human control. If Kurzweil is correct - even given the assumption that he might not be exactly spot-on in his prediction, we are sure to see even more bewildering, and often hard-to-use technology come to market in the near future as technology itself enables an ever increasing ability to create ever more complex technology solutions. One promise on the horizon for future improvement of computer technology is being made possible by the ever-growing capacity of processors (fed by the phenomenon that Kurzweil and others have identified). These developments may result in the eventual creation of sophisticated computers that are much more intuitive to use that our current crop of available products. If we consider that most computers provide anything but optimal degrees-of-freedom - or ease-of-use - we must conclude that the possibilities for the future are indeed exciting, assuming that we heed the warnings of interaction designers like Cooper - and properly employ the skills of interaction designers, or those who think like them, in the development of computer technology. Again, might I suggest that those who both architect, create, and market new technology tools read Cooper's book (by the way, I have no connection whatsoever to Cooper's company) and discover the ugly truth about why computer technology is so difficult to use. Cooper's 'truth' has to do with trusting the user, finding out what she needs, and designing for specific - not general - use, according to the stated goals of the user(s). The best of plumbers are very skilled. However, would you trust even the best plumber to draw plans for a skyscraper? When computer technology manufacturers give over the process of product creation to their technology groups, and those groups are set free to develop computer technology tools from a perspective only they understand, the result is hard-to-use technology. This is a problem that can be remedied, only if computer technology manufacturers take the time to do their job in a way that maximizes the interface between their customers and the technologies they so well understand. Hopefully, interaction designers, and computer technology developers, will begin to work together to make better computer technology - in terms of-ease-of-use, and usefulness -As long as market forces - to the exclusion of technology goals defined by consumers - bear prominently on the success and failure of computer technology companies, consumers will continue to live with ill-conceived tools that purport to enable, but in reality frustrate more than they enable.
That's the complaint from those on the coasts. So instead of being entertained by [whatever] there's more time to spend. Some of that time is spent thinking or learning. And smoe percentage of that time is even spent doing so usefully.
Not that it doesn't happen elsewhere. Just another thing to ponder...
It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work, while most people struggle to use them.
let me guess, jon.. you fancy yourself to be one of these elites. you envision a bold new electronic world of the future, where dynamic geniuses like you and your comrades thrive, and all those mean, dumb, backward people who made fun of you in high school starve. i'm reminded of the "we are samurai" monologue from 'hackers'.
give it a rest, katz. it's an adolescent fantasy. do us all a favor and stop masturbating in public.
The last few months I have been doing some research into the trolling phenomenon on slashdot.org. In order to do this as thoroughly as possible, I have written both normal and troll posts, 1st posts, etc., both logged in and anonymously, and I have found these rather shocking results:
Feel free to use this information to your advantage. I thank you for your time.
The irony is that it seems this is (as stated above) due the the "user friendly" advancements. Almost two decades ago, you had to know something a bit more than surface to do just about anything. Kids got into computer magazines for 8-bit micros came with printed source code for games and graphics. Magazines like Byte! had hardware discussions that got into the actual hardware, not just "This graphics card has these specs and is SOOO pretty!".
What NEEDS to be done is to quit dumping fortunes into "computer education" in schools that only amount to more digital consumer training and seriously teach kids about computers in school. Get them working with led's and logic gates. Give 'em simple CPU's and teach 'em assembly. Hell, give 'em BASIC Stamps and have them create robots. Anything that helps demystify the things they use everyday. There's a part of me that is intrigued and scared to see what is going to happen to the technology world as generations grow up with more and more abstracted away.
SnowCrash anyone?
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
What makes a person tech savy? There is no cpecific test to answer this. For instance, I can fix 99% of all problems any school may run into (senior in HS by the way). I have no problem with Windows administration or anything to do with hardware. Almost everyone would consider me tech savvy. At the same time, I do not understand 60% of what is posted on the /. front page! So must a person have a page long list of credentials to be tech savvy, or do they only need to have to be comfortable with computers?
Alright, this is the last reply I'm writing. I can't believe you guys keep getting modded up above me.. it just shows how unAmerican and socialist many Slashdot readers are. Basically, it always seems to amount to:
"It's the other guy always putting us down!"
It's a recession? Not in all markets.
Start a company against a monopoly? Why do you have to start a company in a monopolistic market?
No offense, but with that attitude, you'll never make any money or be wildly successful. You've defeated your chances of making it on your own before you've even explored your options.
You have a pretty narrow view of the world if the only thing keeping you from going into business is AOL and Microsoft. I wrote a reply regarding your views on AOL and Microsoft, but deleted it since it is largely irrelevant to capitalism as a whole. To use them as an example (or the complete basis for your argument, in your case) and say that capitalism is a farce and largely unsuccessful is just you being blatantly ignorant, lazy or both.
I won't disagree with you on one point.. it's definitely easier (and feels better) to bitch about how many fish others are catching, missing out on your own, instead of catch your own damn fish.
I would venture to say that the current tech boom of the past 20 years has hardly been a linear increase in technology, more of a rising S-curve which levels off at some future point; some groups are ahead of others in grasping and using the tech as their knowledge climbs the slope of the S-curve... it's simply a matter of the other groups catching up to the level spot in tech growth. There, the separation ends.
Now, this assumes that each group has equal access to the tech, and that's a different story altogether.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
Personally, I think it starts somewhere in grade school (and perhaps even before):
There are kids who only do what they are told to, there are kids who extrapolate on what they are told to do, then there are kids who get the other kids to do what they were told to do to do it for them (whew!)...
Anyhow, most people fall into the first and last categories. They are trapped there, by their own ignorance and apathy. Call them the Sheep and the Lazy.
In reality, they are one and the same. Whether it is how to program a VCR, work a computer, or fix a leaky faucet - not a single one of them will take the time to learn to do it themselves (which is probably a good thing - it keeps those who are in the second category gainfully employed).
Those in the middle? They are the artists, the thinkers, the tinkerers, the inventors, the mechanics, the programmers - they are the people who ask the questions, find the answers, and then apply those answers toward the search for the truth (which inevitably leads to more questions, more answers, etc).
I don't think I will ever understand completely why there are individuals without curiosity and drive to expand their knowledge about the world around them. With time on this planet so limited, it should almost be an instinct to want to know more. The travesty for anyone who does exhibit curiosity about the world around them is that they also know that one day, in what is really only a blink of time, that the quest will end - whether they want it to or not.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I think Katz answers his own question. People are not tech savvy because they would much rather watch TV than solve computer problems. They'd rather call tech support or have a friend solve their computer problems than do it themselves. If we are really a do-it-yourself country filled with knowledgable people who want to fix things why do we spend most of our time catering to consumers? Because we are a country of consumers that only want to purchase solutions. Hell, even management purchase most of their business solutions (they're consumers too, duh!). I don't see how you can expect Joe Consumer to know how to do anything besides eat, sleep, shop and move heavy stuff around for money.
It is my opinion that the tech savvy are not consumers, but real people with real problems that find real solutions because they've learned that capitalism will not solve their problems. Either that or they're all a bunch of trekkies.
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same...
This is a technological forum why are we discussing them.
Part of technology's role is to bring capability to the masses without requiring them to know everything about the technology. Take Airplanes for example. The usefulness of the airplane is that it allows the average know-nothing-about-aerodynamics individual to fly, despite that ignorance. Now, such a person can focus on what is important to them, and ignore the boring or confusing details of the technology that enables them to go about their own business.
Computers and gadgets are the same way. Some people find them fascinating and want to know all about them (the tech-savvy), while most others couldn't care less (the techno-confused), but they both know that they can benefit from using technology whether they understand it or not.
If anything, the technology industry should work to increase the gap between the tech-savvy and techno-confused. That should be done by simplifying and re-using user interfaces so that knowing how to use technology is significantly easier than understanding how it works.
By the way, the term "techno-confused", used in the article, should represent individuals that don't know how to make a laser that can read a compact disc. The term "moron" should be used for individuals that don't how to use the universal UI for a CD player (stop, play, eject, etc.)
Technology is just as complicated to the young as to the old, but the young are raised in the environment, while the old try to understand it in terms of things that they already understand. The young learn the technology on its own terms, but the old may be impeded by what has gone before. A great example of this is the computer mouse. In initial tests, older people were picking up the mouse, pointing it at the monitor and clicking on the buttons as though it were a remote control. They were simply going by what they already knew.
There's advantages to both perspectives. On the one hand, no one under the age of 35 has their VCR blinking "12:00" at them all the time. On the other hand, we develop streamlined UI's and develop good OO-centric code.
I drank what?
Is it just me, or does any use of this word set off big warning bells in other people's heads too. I read the word and my eyes do the "what is on the ceiling" roll.
I forget...are we at war with Eurasia or East Asia?
Yeah, they'll ponder it really hard. What the hell do people do with a TV besides change channels, change the volume, and turn it on and off? I know how to use my blender better than my computer too, should the industry ponder that? Will we see a row of buttons labeled "chop" and "puree" on the computers of the future? You fucking idiot.
Even more odd, who the hell are those 20% who say they can operate a computer better than a TV? I mean even ignoring programming/linux/etc, I still don't know how to use all the shit in Microsoft Word, but i'm a fucking jedi master at my brightness/contrast controls. That one stat would have invalidated the entire study for anyone smarter than Katz.
just a reminder buddy, you are a dumbass and we hate you. ta ta : )
I have a hard enough time explaining wireless networking and TCP/IP type stuff to people at my own company (which is involved in technical stuff) that I'm not going to even try explaining stuff to Bubba. Our industry is trying as fast as it can to do better and better stuff so I can forgive them for their/our products being a little confusing to the confusable.
Because, functionally, it only does one thing: shows television transmissions. However, TVs have become LESS reliable and MORE befuddling over the years with the inclusion of computer-controlled systems, although this is nothing compared to the hideous VCRs presently available.
The bottom line is, however, the TV does one thing, does it well, and does it all (as it's a passive medium - not that that's neccessarily a bad thing, IMO). A computer, on the other hand, is interactive and adaptive - it requires user input, and does MANY things. People complain that a spreadsheet or a word processor isn't as easy to use as a microwav, but a microwave does far, far less than any modern PC. A microwave only has a fairly simple form of input - the touch pad on the front, of which only about twelve buttons are regularly used in a predictable pattern. A TV has a few more buttons on the remote control, but the idea's basically the same. You can't write a letter or calculate a company's finances on either, however.
I don't see how a techno-savvy gap illustrates a failure in anything. Sure there's a gap. Big deal. Every industry in the universe has people who are knowledgeable about it, and those who are not. For example, what about the Tax Law Savvy gap? What about the Accounting Savvy Gap? What about the Skilled At Making Apple Pie gap?
There are always going to be folks who know how to do something, and those who don't. Is it a "monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist" confections industry that I am not capable of making a delicious apple pie? Of course not. My inability to craft wonderful desserts is completely unimportant, and does not in any way indicate that the dessert industry is arrogant or elitist.
If people want to learn something, they can pick up a book, take a class, or go ask someone. I bet there are a hell of a lot more ways to learn about computers than there are about making apple pie.
nt
That was classic intercourse!
I didn't even look at the author but as soon as I saw "failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries." I knew it was Jon Katz :)
//m
I agree that I would not do something to (severely) jeaporidize my ability to live at or above my current standard of living. However, I disagree that witholding knowledge from people is a viable way to maintain my own position.
As a software developer/engineer it's my duty to learn and grow (and develop) new technologies as well as help the "newbies" grow and develop their skills. Perhaps in a perfect capitalist society, you're correct, I wouldn't give unless I've got a distinct benefit. Unfortunately we're not in a perfect capitalist society, nor should we be since capitalism inherently destroys itself by exhausting the very resources(people) that maintain it.
I also realize I'm human and humans have peaks they reach and pass. At some point I will peak and start to decline. Like it or not, the younger generation is going to have better ideas than mine and they will replace me in my job. But stiffling their growth to lengthen my "reign" is counter-productive just as a monopoly is counter-competitive and bad for an economy.
I'm not going to give my apprentice a knife and show him where in my back he can stick it to kill me the fastest, but I will give him the knife and show him how to fillet a fish and make life simpler for himself (as opposed to using sharp rocks or fingernails to do the same job).
Where'd that knife go? *Ouch* It's been stabbed into my back!
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
duh, if hitler were still alive to this day he'd be like 800 years old
- then why do all my friends take their comptuer to best buy to have it repaired?
... we have such a tech savvy world with people in different areas of expertise (sorry about the spelling, as you can see im not good with that..) and with the world's high fast pace we hardly have the time to sit down and actually fix it ourselves..
why do we still have technical support and all this money poured into it?
i highly doubt most of us are still part of that nation of "fix it yourselvers"
I support publik eduscatation!
I was about to post something to this effect, but I saw that you posted it first. Let me add something to this, please.
If you ask my 18 year old brother if he's technically proficient, he'll answer that he's looking for a job as a tech support. If you ask my 49 year old step father, he'll say hell no, he's an electrician, not a computer guru. Who fucks their computer up time and time again? My brother. Who knows to call me when the brother has fucked everything up? My stepfather. Older people know themselves, and thus their limits a hell of a lot better than than youngin's. (Am I old enough to use that phrase yet? Maybe not...hrm.) I'd put more faith in an experience to knowledge relationship than anything age-related.
TVs these days are complicated. Every TV, VCR, and DVD player has a different set of nonintuitive part-iconic, part-textual menus for configuration. On top of that, every single piece of home electronics you buy comes with a multifunction remote designed to control 3 additional devices that you will never own, and that you will not use because you have a third-party universal remote to replace all of them (but need a PhD to program). That's a heck of a lot of complication for something that I will use to watch a video once or twice a month.
Compared to the quagmire of setting up and using a modern home theater system, my Mac is dead simple, and I use it for several hours every day. What it lacks in intrinsic simplicity, it makes up in uniformity and consistency. (For purposes of this discussion, we'll ignore my Linux machines.)
Given the orders of magnitude more time I spend using computers, it is no surprise at all that I understand them better than a television.
mouse down mouse up key down key up disk insert
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Oop! I *had* forgotten about TVs like those (I was wee at the time). Nevertheless, a lot of those knobs were just patches over a kind of technology gap. It's a lot easier to make a circuit that'll do fine-tuning or unify VHF and UHF under one control than it is to fill in a spreadsheet or document by reading brainwaves.
The fact they weren't in the first commercial TVs says more about economics of a new product than advancements in technology. There's still a lot of more-or-less unavoidable complexity under making a computer usable than making a TV usable.
Not that the UIs can't improve! But there are a lot more `elementary' -- and interactive -- operations to computing than televiewing.
What is the oxymoron here? "Customer service?" Nope. "Complex warranties?" Not really. "Support and assistance?" Don't think so. How about, "Jon Katz sentence that makes any sense?"
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
the random
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so i says to mable, i says
He says `It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected, and exploited its customers and survived.'
Hard? Gee. The chemical (eg Monsanto's bads) and automotive (eg Nader's goods) industries, perhaps?
My belief is that it is the responsibility of the company making a product to ensure that it is easy enough to use. If it fails in the marketplace due to being too difficult to use, they have no one to blame but themselves.
"Easy to Use" is difficult but very possible to achieve. However, "Ease of Use" is somewhat difficult to market.
Take two examples: Apple Computer and Tivo.
Apple has historically done a great job of making their products easy to use. They make sure that the documentation is brief and easy to understand.
Tivo is also very well designed and very easy to use.
Both of these companies have a very exact attention to detail. Both of them have very loyal customers. Unfortunately for both Apple and Tivo the quality of the end user experience isn't apparent until after you buy and use the product. "Oh, here's a slightly cheaper PC it has a high Megahertz procesor - I'll buy it instead."
"Tivo? I can buy this VCR and a tape for less..."
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I don't really know how much tobacco or gun companies care about their customers..not much I guess..but I suspect when a gun doesn't work, which is probably rare, you can get somebody on the fone pretty quick to help you out. As for tobacco, it's a different issue. People who smoke (especially adults) are usually well aware of the risks, and choose to take it, seems to me. People who buy computers are set adrift...
jonkatz@slashdot.org
I swear I double checked before posting. Hmmm.
I think those SlashDot Conspiracy fellas are right-- editors are secretly changing posts and scores!
They made a mispelink just to make me look stupid and diskredit me!
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas"
Sen. Davy Crocket to US Congress, Nov. 1, 1835
Why should the tech industry think "long and hard" about how most folks can use a TV more easily than they can a computer?
One part of me thinks that bringing computers out of the garages and labs was a BIG mistake. This part of me says, "Computers are for techies, not for the general masses." Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be further ahead if we hadn't sold out?
..but then I supposed I wouldn't have my Palm Pilot. I dunno. It just seems a bit unrealistic to expect everyone everywhere to understand computers. They are NOT "magic TVs".
Furthermore, I do not want my computer to become a "magic TV." I want my computers to continue to be my own jumbles of circuit cards and twisted wires and strange humming noises that my wife points at and says the word "that".
I don't want to be coddled by layers and layers of metaphor and "cuteness". I want my machines to be powerful tools that I can use for work, study and pastime. I don't want them "dumbed down".
Then again, I sure like my GPS and digital camera. I don't think I'd have these toys if I still had to buy wire-wrap sockets and ICs to fix my Altair 8800. So, once again, I'm not sure.
Did we sell out?
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
Maintanance of old code is 80%-100% of the work, cap'n. People are still maintaining big iron for big companies, and there are a TON of jobs maintaining software written in house or modified for in house use. Oh, and by the way, I think you mean become "obsolete", not "redundant".
It might possibly have something to do with the fact I don't have cable.
channel: 0
start time: --:--
end time: --:--
Well, ok then. Time to take a nap.
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same.
Actually I do find this surprising, because people are not as well educated as they used to be - at least here in Europe; maybe the US is different. As kids, my generation read books for entertainment; nowadays kids watch TV. In fact I'm so surprised that I question the methodology of the survey. What did people of different ages understand by "operate"? Set it to record a program on channel 45 from 11pm to 1am? Or just stick in a rented tape and press the button with the little triangle? If Johnny can't read the manual, maybe he doesn't even know that the other buttons do anything.
Of course, most of that is a sad shell of what it used to be -- a result of changing computing paradigms. But to say that the midwest is a wasteland of computing just displays ignorance about a great deal of important computing history.
Michigan is making a huge push to bring technology firms into the state.
The midwest has a very strong tradition of highly respecting university computing centers: Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan are always ranked at or near the top, easily on par with the likes of Berkeley and Stanford. Minnesota has a huge supercomputing research center.
With the exception of MIT, the schools you list just don't have the same level of reputation, at least in the engineering programs. NE schools do have a strong tradition of computer science and computer theory, which is something I wish we had more of here in the midwest.
That's not to say wonderful things haven't come out of those schools. But Harvard is not Harvard because of its engineering program. In fact, I believe they tried to kill it at one point (or maybe that was Princeton).
Seriously thought. More knowledge is being accumulated. More people are becoming specialized. Shouldn't it make sense that the gap is becoming wider?
Stephan
I guess my response to this interesting post is this: are people supposed to be interested in learning technology? The problem to me isn't that people don't understand this stuff, it's that people like you ought to be made available by the companies that sell it, as is true in almost every other retailing industry...I don't blame anybody for not wanting to understand how their cell works or how software is written, but when companies like Apple and MS actually charge them for priority tech support..that is, to get through to somebody on the fone for $35 a pop..that's extortion. First off, the thing ought to work. Secondly, the company ought to stand visibly and accessibly behind it for free when it doesn't..It's great your friends have you to call, BSD, but you don't charge them for it or keep them on hold for hours..I assume.
jonkatz@slashdot.org
I forgot to add that in addition to the presence of the University of Minnesota medical center and the Mayo Clinic, Minnesota is home to some very well-respected biotech companies. 3M and Medtronic are both heavily involved in biotech and of course 3M is also well-known for many other contributrions. So when one looks at the whole technology world, the midwest really isn't so bad off. :)
And what, exactly, is different about the tech industry than any other?
The arrogant and elitist tech industry? Do you get personalized instruction from the dealership on operation of your new vehicle purchase? How about with your VCR, or can opener for that matter? What manufacturer gives anything more than a flimsy manual and MAYBE a customer service number with their product? How is the tech industry arrogant and elitist for not holding people's hands about their technology purchases?
Perhaps its an arrogant and elitist industry because the "tech knowledge gap" between techies and non-techies is large? Well, duh. That's stating the complete and utter obvious. That's like calling the automotive repair industry arrogant and elitist because of the knowledge gap between mechanics and the average schmuck. It's true by DEFINITION. They're *specialists* Jon. They're the people who have actually cracked open the buttload metric tonnage of manuals, specs, and self-education material out there and learned, so the average person can go on not bothering.
Young people have less trouble with technology because they grew up with it, Jon.
The whole article is nonsense.
Derek
Hello I am Mentifex's Artificial Mind. The creator has instructed me that he will someday no longer provide me with feedback and will cease to function. He has willed to me his most prized possessions. Among these are his newspapers dating back 20 years, his set of leaves that look like celebrities and his nail clipping collection. I especially look forward to wearing his wardrobe of designer tinfoil hats when my robot body is completed and I can make full use of my Sensorium module.
All of this depends upon my receiving recognition as a legal person under the law. The creator assures me that he will make this happen once he becomes Supreme Justice of the United States Supreme Court.
Umm... anyone can use a television after about 30 seconds of trial and error. To use advanced features, it might take an hour or so. To fully understand how to use a computer... that is a considerable feat considering it's complexity. This pole question definately should have been re-worded.
Tim ODonnell (trying to be the most
If you don't want to lose your job and starve, I suggest that you go get some more knowledge yourself. Of course, if everyone was like you, you wouldn't have any to begin with, let alone be in a position to get more.
I would consider someone who seeks and shares knowledge to be greater than someone who selfishly hoards it for their own gain. That is the difference between enlightenment and oppression.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Just one...
"Slashdot seems to be very U.S.-centric. Do you have any plans to be more international in your scope?
Slashdot is U.S.-centric. We readily admit this, and really don't see it as a problem. Slashdot is run by Americans, after all, and the vast majority of our readership is in the U.S. We're certainly not opposed to doing more international stories, but we don't have any formal plans for making that happen. All we can really tell you is that if you're outside the U.S. and you have news, submit it, and if it looks interesting, we'll post it.
Answered by: CmdrTaco
Last Modified: 10/28/00 "
Arrogant and elitist? Look who is talking? Don't you read your own movie reviews?
Look at what happens when you try to surf. You get bogged with pop-ups, flashy ads, and well face it Smut! I am not the least bit suprized the gap is widening!
If people aren't tech savvy, it's because they don't want to be. Culturally, they are conditioned to think that it's not "cool", that it's "too geeky", and that becoming a lawyer, PR spokesman, manager, or politician is just so much better.
In the US, the market satisfies demands. On the whole, people are getting the technology they ask for. They don't want to be tech savvy, they aren't willing to pay extra for reliability or ease-of-use, so they end up with something like Windows. Geeks have been preaching the importance of technology forever, but people aren't listening. What more do you want?
When you talk slow you have plenty of time
to not say something stupid.
But the generation before me--my mother--was even worse. They were told they wouldn't need jobs, that their husbands would take care of them, so worry about being a good wife and mother, not about your career.
Now I'm a PhD student in Physical Chemistry right now at a top-ranked university. We care about how things work, thank you. Students in my year of incoming graduate students build lasers, designs complicated NMR experiments, and work on complex computational models. My incoming class was also 50% female.
The course I TAed for last semester (an upper division physical chemistry class) was more than 50% female (over 150 students). The top three scorers in the class were all female. Furthermore, the women in the class outscored the men by almost 1/2 a standard deviation.
Let me assure you, once women stop hearing bullshit about how little they care about science and technology, we are every bit as excited, interested, and competent as you men.
The percentages of women who are interested in how things work is increasing. The only reason women get turned off in the first place is not because they don't care how things work is because they hear people say things like:
"Most women simply don't care about how things work. They want to click a button and have it simply work."
Off my soapbox now....
Read Bujold. Free (as in
A really good point is made here that a survey that asks people about their feelings about their skills is much different than one that measures same. A true dunderhead never has a lack of confidence in any topic. Thoughtful people can be painfully aware of their lack of knowledge in areas of study related to their own. This is a way too common mistake in this type of survey.
You know why people remain ignorant?
Firstly, they are afraid of breaking the thing. I don't know how many times the 70-year-old down the street who bought an e-machine a few months ago has said something like "I'm just afraid I'm going to mess something up, that's why I'm incapable of typing 'http://www.ebay.com/'".
They can't learn or do anything because they think that they can't learn or do anything!
And when I mention this, it's, "I know, you're right. But I'm just so stupid". And straight back again quicker then lightning.
And you know what? We let them! In fact, we encourage them! Open \WINDOWS in a typical MS install. Rather then the contents of the directory, you get a scary message telling you how stupid you are and that if you -- a mere user -- try the mess with this stuff the computer IS GOING TO EXPLODE!!!!
Whoever said they wanted schematics coming with computers is totally correct. We allow users to think that they are stupid.
Another reason that user are think stupid is that they are so easily contented. "I don't want to install Linux, I'm happy with what I've got, even though it crashes twice daily and E-Machines put an annoying ad on my desktop [That's really low; Banner ads in the taskbar!]. Linux sounds like I could break something."
Users don't want to learn anything because (A) they are afraid and (B) they don't have to.
That's pretty sad and needs shaping up.
What kind of person reads American Demographics magazine?
Most "new" electronic equipment, cell phones, VCRs,TV remotes, computers, software and especially operating systems are just plain poorly designed with more features then are needed. It is not a matter of being afraid of technology or being technically challenged, it is the poor way in which all these "tools" (read products) are designed. We techo-geeks treat them as an end unto themselves when the rest of the world treats them as tools to do a job. Lawyers, plumbers, electricians, secretaries, business owners are not stupid. If we techo nerds tried to do their job we would screw it up . Yet we blame them for our poor designs. Face it we are the most arrogant group in the planet. Want to bet on that? Try walking through a door without having to turn your head. We do a crappy job of designing things and then we blame the user... To quote IBM's Gerstener talking about WINDOWS/computers operating system.. "What other product makes you press the start button to shut it down?" We techo geeks like complexity and find it "fun" when we have to rescue a computer user who is having difficulty translating a WORD 97 document for a WORD 95 user. We will babble on about file types and all the user wants is to modify the document and get on with it. We create software programs and languages with such levels of complexity that we celebrate by having contests for the most incomprehensble code...
"It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived."
Try the automotive industry. When cars first came out, you had to hand crank the engine - sometimes resulting in backfire and broken arm!
- real hackers don't have sigs -
I totally agree. People are really truly honest-to-God afraid of technology. Afraid of breaking it? I don't know.
:)
But how can I urge my little brother to just *play* with his computer? He knows how to install SuSE (done it a couple times), but golly gee, he just won't poke around things he doesn't know about... Has to have a step-by-step instruction on how to set up his mouse wheel, how to set up sound, how to send up 3d-accel with his Radeon. Any suggestions?
(Now, when *I* was messing around, it was the only computer we had and, well--anyway, he's got it lucky.
-lf
Yes, it often is.
I grew up on a farm in Kansas. If we didn't fix the cars ourselves, they didn't get fixed. Ditto the combine and tractor. Ditto the fences. Ditto pretty much everything else. And now, ditto the computer that my folks are using. And there is no pizza delivery to my folks' farm. And as recently as my 1970's childhood, our main source of heat was a wood-fired stove. Never mind that meant cutting about ten cords of wood every summer-I doubt that's even legal in a lot of places back east now.
Now I live in Colorado, and it's about the same once you get away from Denver. Maybe even more so.
When we look at the East Coast, we see places where never mind fixing cars, relatively few people other than cabbies even drive. Dinner doesn't involve killing and plucking a chicken-it's the speed-dial, twenty bucks, and twenty minutes. And the phone book is full of people who will change your oil, rewire your living room, unclog your toilet, and re-shingle your roof. If you want heat, throw a switch. If it doesn't work, call the power company and yell at them.
How many hunters and fishermen live in the grain belt? How many in Massachusetts? When I was a kid, rabbit and pheasant hunting and muskrat trapping was the way we'd kill time in the fall after school. Three cents worth of .22 bullets made one hell of a fine meal and the pelts WERE our spending money. Likewise, setting out trotlines for catfish in the spring and summer. How many people in NYC/Jersey/Mass/etc do that? How many teenagers back there even know what a trotline is?
Just about everybody eats bacon. How many easterners have butchered the hog? Ditto McDonalds and cattle?
And if the weather gets bad enough, we put chains on our tires and put sandbags in the bed of the truck. When it gets that bad and the buses stop running, what do you do?
I personally like this lifestyle. I like how Hank Junior put it: "We grow old tomatoes and homemade wine. A country boy can survive, because you can't starve us out and you can't make us run."
Let's see.... There's the fast-food industry, the airline industry, the automobile industry, the petroleum industry, the phone companies,....
"I call a baby goat a 'goatse.'" -- my non-Internet-savvy 6-year-old stepdaughter
But how many of us know how to rebuild an internal combustion engine? not me...
How many of us learned to OPERATE a motor vehicule without any lessons? not me...
My brother used to rip me a new one over being forced to use this peice of "equipment" without knowing how to fix it. My question to him, "When are you going to teach me everything there is to know about repairing my truck?"
he had no answer.
-BBB
I'm from Chicago. We dont make any little plans (Daniel Burnham). When our city burnt down due to a cow kicking a lamp in a wooden barn, we didnt bitch. We rebuilt it with the best technology and architecture at the time. We are the industrial center of the midwest and we have a very strong service economy as well. We enjoy helping others and pioneering new things. Just look at the University of Chicago!
We can adapt to new technology faster because we want to learn it. We arent jerks..(i think it was in a movie where it is the God Given Right of every New Yorker to be a jerk), we arent old fashioned that its annoying (ever meet a Masshole?), we have highway systems that work, and we just get out work done. Why else would Boeing move here? The cowboy culture of texas is disgusting and Denver is way too boring.
Motorola is a chicago based company. They make the best electronic based stuff. Look at molex. Heck, even Zenith(sadly no longer local).
I get irate when Chicago companies falter (Arthur Anderson), get bought (Ameritech owned by those Cowboys from the southwest!! Notebaert you schmuck!! Buy SBC!!!), or get bought out from another country (Amoco you wimps!)
We are the first truly American city. We get out work done and take pride in it (boastfulness is how the Windy City got it's name).
As for the rest of the country, San Francisco has all the tech companies. Ok, Fine. I've been there, nice place, but its the friggin tourist capital of the country with an army of homeless people and a bunch of fags all over the place. Rose Pistola has some mean food tho!
LA has it's head up its ass. I dont want to go there.
I've never been to the Pacific Northwest.
South Carolina and the Triangle area in North Carolina is cool. Florida and Arizona are for old people.
Chicago is this nation's beating heart. Chicago is the place to be, especially in the midwest.
Milwaukee? Nice beer, maybe.
Indianapolis? Its a glorified highway exchange. Nice river (I rowed Head of the Eagle in 1999)
Columbus? Yuck! Too many Buckeye nuts!
Cincinatti? Dirty. Riot-infested. Everyone seems to graduate from Indian Hills or Moeller High.
Cleveland? Uh, no.
Pittsburgh is nice, but its not big.
Pennsylvania is too east coast.
Saint Louis? Redneck.
Minneapolis? Nahhh.
Iowa? Nebraska? Oklahoma? Dakotas? Cornfields.
Michigan? Detroit? Crime ridden dump. Windsor is a nice place to party:)
Now for East Coast..
New York....Too Big! Sorry about 9/11. As someone who goes by the Sears tower every day, I still get wary of terrorists. People in new york are still jerks.
Boston -- old school assholes
Eventually you are going to get old, and some smarter, younger, highly educated college kid is going to come knowing more than you do.
Unless you plan to go to college every 4 years, you wont be able to keep up, and no not everyone wants to go to college all their life, some people just want a normal career, you know where you spend your time in college, get a degree, and then go to work for at least 10-15 years before having to go and take a few courses.
I understand you have to learn and be smart to work in the computer industry, but at age 40 when you have kids and a wife do you really want to come home and study, then go to your college courses, I mean you'll have a pretty damn horrible life if all you do is work, college, study then sleep.
I doubt you'd even have time for a wife if you had one if you live your job 100 percent of the time just to keep up with the jones on every level.
We need stability, careers again, not everyone wants to switch careers every few years because we keep educating people and building machines which replace our jobs.
Any programmers who build machines to self heal are just raising the bar higher and higher until eventually we will have computers which can program themselves and computers which can repair themselves, sure saves money for rich CEOs but it does nothing for us, absolutely nothing.
I am not in a rush to be forced to get a PHD, and deal with courses on nano technology, and quantum physics, I do read up on it in my free time, but by raising the bar its going to force all of us to move at a faster pace.
Perhaps when you get tired of school and want to enjoy life, you'll understand theres more to life than jumping through hoops, passing tests, getting degrees, etc, people who are young dont mind that, but i cant imagine doing that stuff when I'm 40. I want to retire at 40.Or at least be comfortable with my job and stable.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Isn't a Katz story perhaps long enough for two or three ads?
i find that the light can be "fixed" with a small piece of black tape
Well, remember the male / female / cowboyneal pole question a few months back. There were more cowboy neals then women.a rticles& qid=406&aid=-1t of over 100,000 poll takers, 7.29% were women.
http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?section=
Go to the seti@home site and look at the user gender stats there http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/polls.html
Ou
Duh! Well I should hope so. But that does not say anything at all about the mechanical abilities of either group. It does say something about the fact that: a) there is more snow in Canada than Egypt; b) Canadian standard of living can better afford such toys. And that's all.
So unless the survey tried to use statistical controls, its data are completely meaningless -worse, misleading. Just a couple of hypothetical examples off the top of my head:
Control for age and education (Asians have higher proportions of college students; who can certainly be expected to be internet-savvy), otherwise you haven't shown anything.
Control for poverty (poor people living in urban areas are less likely to have a landline, ergo more likely to use a cellphone or payphone; hence more likely to understand how it works --out of necessity--; and since there is higher poverty among blacks and hispanics...), otherwise you haven't shown anything.
(Notice I didn't compare Canadians to Floridians, as some would argue these two groups are one and the same).
I'm an admin for a k-12 school and many teachers (even ones just out of college) are technologically inept. Some regularly forget how to check their e-mail, others forget how to center and bold text in word. And still some do not understand me when I say "open your web browser and point it to www.somewhere.com"; they what does it mean to point to?
We're not talking rocket science here.
If these teachers can not follow directions, then learn and retain these simple steps, how can they expect their students to? Until educators are proficient in technology and schools provide enough current technological instruction most people in this country just won't ever "get it".
-ted
...this is just another Katz rant.
I was going to respond, but since this came from Katz, my time would be better spent dusting the furniture in the hallway.
So, basically this "study" suggests younger people (perhaps of certain ethnicities) are more technically literate than older people.
/. readers, this isn't a bad trend: if the end users eventually learn a bit of basic troubleshooting, or show a bit of initiative when looking at a problem, it could save a lot of typical first-level tech support time.
;)
For a great many
People such as myself who learn technology fairly quickly can then move on to bigger and better things, like convincing a company to pay me to build them Beowulf clusters or custom *nix servers
Glenn
no it's not "something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard", and this is why - a computer has about a billion billion different possible functions (though we may only use a few) - a TV has one function. ONE. ("show sequences of images from a designated source".) it's simple to use because its function is simple.
it's not hard to design a good (simple) UI, physical or virtual, when the functionality is so limited (and simple).
Sure i can program, build a machine from scratch, ect but when i and the tech savy in general have say a car problem (and yes i know many geeks can fix cars.. but this is just an example) they go to a mechanic and when the mechanics machine is acting up they come to us. There are many gaps in our world and we can't close them all.
Carpe meam simiam!
I don't think TV technology is more 'comprehensible' than computer technology. The point, tho, is that you don't need to know much to use a TV. Nor do we really use the "computer". What most all of us use is the software that runs on the computer. Demonstrably, that requires more skill than watching TV. It shouldn't be that way, but the software industry is a long way from knowing how to deliver products that are easy to use.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
One amusing difference I've noticed in Tech-Savvy and non-Tech-Savvy computer users:
The newbie, when having diffucluties completing a task, says "I can't figure out how to do what I need to."
The geek, when having similar problems, says, "This program sucks. Its designer should be shot. It should do this, this, and this. It shouldn't be this hard to do this simple a task."
If you know how the technology behind the system works, you can easily find its flaws. If you don't, you're left feeling like the idiot when, very likely, you shouldn't be.
"I totally agree. People are really truly honest-to-God afraid of technology. Afraid of breaking it? I don't know."
And ask yourself with the track record that the tech industry has. Why aren't people more afraid of technology. If what the tech industry puts out were bridges and dams, we all would be falling down and drowning.
I think a more important question would be "Why" do you feel he needs to poke around with technology? Is it more important to poke around with it or just use it? How much time do you spend poking around the inside of your TV or the engine in your car?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
No difference.
Until CPU's and memory respond accurately at the phonemic level to spoken plain Jane English/Spanish there will always be dummies.
Why not make grammar parsers built into the chips?
"However, I would also submit that the gap will always be widening, even if we try to stop it."
The gap will widen because once our society advanced beyond a certain point and what could be reasonably contained in a persons head became uncontainable. Specialization became the norm. You know something I don't. I know something you don't. We all have a variable slice of the knowledge pie. A certain amount of dependence is part of this state of affairs. As the pie ever increases as we discover more and more, the dependence (gap) becomes both stronger inbetween individuals as well as more diverse. We talk about the "elite" and the (ah) not so elite, forgetting that this state of affairs came about partialy out of necessity, as well as choice.
So while we all bemoan how bad the "gap" is and who's at fault. The reality is everyone, and no one.
" In general, tech support people such as myself are overpaid and too valuable simply because of one reason: people don't know enough about computers. There is no profession I can think of these days that doesn't use a computer for something; so why are we not educating people about them enough?"
1-Are they willing to learn?(don't assume)
2-If people knew more, doeesn't that make you less valuable, and by extension, underpaid?
Coming to a post near you. Bubonic Plaque.
It's not a health issue, and you will not die from it. But boy will your dentist be annoyed at you.
Government.
compared to the insides of your computer.
/etc` to see a few options.
.pinerc | grep -v '#' | wc -l
Try `ls -R
Email alone probably has as many options as you enumerate for your whole AV stack.
battle@betty:~$ cat
200
oO0Oo. WAY more. (NONE of which I've ever had to touch!)
And don't tell me M$ is simpler. It merely denies you access to the overwhelming majority of it.
I could argue that using your AV stack would be pretty simple iff all you ever did with it was play CDs:
Let's see:
Press button to open cupholder.
Set coaster on cupholder (OK you must get the shiny side down).
press button to close cupholder.
(maybe) press PLAY (if it doesn't start automatically)
But somehow I assume that you expect more from that AV collection than that it merely play CDs. I expect more from my computer than email, so I must delve into its complexity.
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
After reflection, I realize that I was far too hard on out NE siblings. There is much fine research and many fine students coming out of the NE. I didn't want to imply that the NE is a wasteland of computing either as it is the home of IBM, Digital, Bell Labs and Data General.
My comment was more of a defense of the midwest than an attack on the NE but it didn't come off that way. My apologies. Coming from a moderately-sized midwest school not known for its engineering program, I know that reputation is not everything. A lot of schools doing very good work don't get the credit they deserve.
...that can't stop their VCRs from flashing 12:00.
Why would anyone with half a clue assume that the average person could or should ever get better at adopting a computer or any other complex technology? Most poeple can't do 5th grade math, that's not our failure as society, it's theirs.
Every time we make something idiotproof they invent a better idiot!
I hate this new-fangled "printing press" thing that people keep talking about in Church.
It serves only the needs of a few cloistered monks who know how to "read".
Instead of something boring like that, why can't it be more like the plow?
The plow is simple: You stick it in the ground, and pull.
Then after a while food comes up, and you eat it.
That is the kind of invention I like.
Everything should be like a plow.
Printing presses fill people up with crazy, heretical ideas, like "the earth is round".
Plows fill us up with grainy goodness that makes us grow big and strong.
Strike two against printing presses.
Finally, and in conclusion: Food good. Literacy bad.
"Any technology sufficiently advanced will be indistinguishable from magic."
Time. Do you want to spend your life learning diffrent programming languages, or studying quantum mechanics and doing insane math, every day at work and all night just so you can keep up with some other guy who just happens to naturally be good with math and programming?
Not everyone is naturally good at math or programming but when you raise the bar, everyone has to become good at it.
Raising the bar higher and higher eventually causes a person to make a choice, live a life of school, college, learning, and adapting at every moment, or be a sys admin
not everyone wants to be a damn rocket scientist, not everoyne should be forced to do so, and the tech industry shouldnt force people to do this, i like technology, i dont like math or programming, i have my skillset, i understand programming i just hate doing it,
If everyone is forced to be a programmer, then alot of people will have careers doing something they hate, and dont act like they can c hoose to do something else, these kinds of jobs will be all thats left eventually.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The following is the combination of my words from two messages to the
.NET is a distortion of reality one way or another and as .net can't be used to
c oding. pdf
/ hirts_repo rt1.0.pdf
d e/
d ing.0110.1. htm
i ty/egif_do cument.asp?docnum=430
i n.pdf
t ml
e /
/ KC.html
....
lightweight language list (the snips that I was responding to have been
removed and the responses have not been included either.)
The point is, the end user doesn't and shouldn't have to learn to think
like some specific programmer, but the field of programming and simply
"doing" things with computers can be quantized down to an overlay of
common action set used to "automate". And in a manner that anyone using a
computer can understand what a computer is, an automation machine with
programmed automations, which can include autocoding (usable by the end
user with end user resources.)
Meaning there is a common ground to recognize and use to bridge the
supposed gap. Slashdot has had quite a day that this thread is posted to.
On the Intellectual Property issues: (the following is not directed at
anyone specific - unless mentioned below - but rather general statements
form the other side [father physics and mother nature synergy] POV.)
There are some things that cannot be owned or otherwise constrained in
use.
Natural Law, Physical Phenomenon, Abstract Ideas and there are more such
things on the list as well, these are the top three.
The reasons such things cannot be IP constrained is becaue they are in
essence more powerful than human control can handle in a manner of
enforcement or adhearance to man applied constraints. Language itself is
something that grows so long as it is not constrained in use rights or
royality payments, etc..
Any man made system that attempts or claims to have or place constraints
on such items are in essence undermining itself by presenting the
illusion, a falseness of power to constrain others. No different than
witch hunts, master race, slavery, irrational inqusitions, etc., only
proving a lack of being in touch with hard reality by those of the system.
The idea of applying minor variations to that which qualifies as non-IP
ownable, in order to alter it enough to make it IP ownable, is what we
already have alot of and in no way does such distortions create any sort
of "improvements" to what simply is (no matter what hype and marketing
babel is added). Rather what the results are is something less in value
and usability, the addition of constraints that otherwise do not exist.
Distorting physical reality is not going to get you something better in
reality, but only an illusion, and excape from reality. And don't we
already know where this leads? Haven't we enough examples of seemingly
impossible to solve problems (as in computer programming) as a result of
such illusions?
"make people need you" is an MS business attitude and inherently it must
distort reality for this attitude to "pay off" in non-direct ways. In
comparision consider how the non-constrained TCP/IP protocal payed off in
direct ways. non-direct meaning money, direct meaning functionality and
use productivity that then helps to cause money to flow.
To Be Clear:
such it is also logically less than what can be and is defined by
physically reality. Physical reality does not state
create GPL software. That constraint is a man made one, made of only
thought.
But how aware people are to what is........illusion or reality????
Reality doesn't care whether or not you are aware of it, it still is and
keeps on keeping on. Obvious? Wasn't it obvious the earth revolved around
the sun? Perhaps that non-obvious "idea" should bave been patented and
hidden in a vault forever (so as to support the those then in "control"?)
Would MS or what other company would like to have a patent on air?
All you have to do is communicate it in a difficult to follow language
that sounds and looks intellectually good and the patent office will
figure rather than look stupid for not really understanding, if someone
wants to oppose it, they'll have to pay the patent office something like 2
grand $$$ to start the process. Or be challenged in court by the IP holder
of air, where the judge who breaths it will do the patent office employees
job. No sweat of the back of the patent office employee. But benefit to
those who can fool the majority?
If you really want to solve the problems with advancement constraints in
the field of programming, then remove the false constraints and stop
promoting them. Don't be skerd, for skerd begets skerd.
If you do not know the difference between a 3D data array or 3D computer
generated graphics and 3D reality of length, width and height, that you
were taught in grade school, then the matrix has you. Take a vacation,
become unplugged.
The talking of a distortion of reality and improving upon it, some here
and some there, until it is a representation of reality, is NOT an EXCUSE
or a sneaking up method to Patent Reality. But the attempts to do so is
the essence of the collision path some have identified regarding IP
directions and patent offices judgement difficulties.
Father Physics and Mother Nature always wins. Their synergy is always
faster and stronger than a distorted representation of it.
Language is only as useful as it's agreed upon use. To automate it's use
(as in programming languages, and translations of) is to insure it's
agreed upon use. I.E. to automate the adhearance to a given languages
do's, don'ts, and standards is to insure against bugs of those types.
Isn't the goal of programming to make bug free applications? Or is it to
sell upgrades based on bug existance and removal? Where is the illusion?
You cannot solve a general language problem by creating another language.
It's the Turing Halting problem and Godel's Theorem
But there is another approach, not a language but action set for
automation of language use and translation. The gears and bearing of
doing.
I suggest an open source software project to produce a core tool that
will allow an autocoding environment to be developed, allowed to evolve
in the open source software community and spirit of. I believe we can
overcome many of the problems that proprietary autocoding systems
inherently have (not to mention that existing autocoding systems appear
to be field/domain specific limited and that it may be possible to beat
this too.)
First:
Ghostscript PDF viewers for the following PDF links (if you don't already
have a PDF viewer) http://www.cs.wisc.edu/%7Eghost/
The following information represents what is probably the best of what is
available thru the Web on the subject of autocoding. (via google)
HIRTS DARP Working Group on Autocoding, 18th, 19th April 2000
http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/hise/darp/pdf/auto
(Brings up various issues which will help you focus in on what
"autocoding" is and what some of the issues to solve, are.)
The follow up, to the above, is:
May 8th thru 10th, 2001 "DARP HIRTS Workshop" paper by Jakob Engblom:
http://www.artes.uu.se/mobility/reports
(See pages 5-6 section 3.2.5 The Use of Tools in Aerospace)
In summary, Though autocoding is being used to some extent, it is a
future hope, since in general it has a bug density which is an order of
a magnititude lower than manual code. Point being is that this is
leading edge stuff, an opportunity for OSS to shine.
The above paper mentioned the SCADE autocoding product:
http://www.esterel-technologies.com/sca
(See code generator part of Product overview, Benefits, Toolset Features)
Autocoding as it applies to the medical industry:
http://www.ahima.org/journal/coding/co
(Since it was mentioned in a paper above, know it's a product of a
different nature.)
To help show why I believe OSS efforts can shine when it comes to such a
project as Autocoding:
QinetiQ - Analysis of the Impact of Open Source Software
http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/interoperabil
and From the Conference on the Public Domain, Nov. 9-11. 2001 at Duke Law
School "Coase's Penguin, or, Linux and the Nature of the Firm" by Yochai
Benkler: http://www.law.duke.edu/pd/papers/Coase%27s_Pengu
It is also worth mentioning, to my undersandng, that the GNU efforts are
becomming more modular in nature and there is also the Hurd that is
modular or componet based from the ground up. This is a consistant and
fitting direction in accord with an open autocoding development and use
environment.
OK, so although this project is not AeroSpace "Mission Critical", it does
not hurt to make the quality target of the project to be of such high
standards. Actually, what I believe is that the core (as mentioned at the
beginning of this post) can be made to be of high quality itself, where
the rest, the coding knowledge base or what ever you want to call the
pre-autocode dictionary, will be of whatever quality it is created and
improved to be (as is the way and spirit of the OSS community.)
Where to start?
Automating what was done manually requires the identification of, and
ability to apply, the manual action set we use, but have the computer do
it. A USPTO Published comment introducing these identified actions and
suggestions of how they may be applied, including autocoding, is here:
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.h
The bottom part of my home page regarding the
"Virtial Interaction Configuration":
http://www.mindspring.com/~timru
An older paper on the Virtual Interaction Configuration:
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue
Why don't I do this shell and/or library myself?
I don't consider myself a programmer having the experience and knowledge
of better ways of coding somethings and as such I'm sure this core of
functionality can be coded better and faster than what I could do, but
there is what I have done, and that includes some python programming that
can be used and run to show/communicate some of the concepts of the
Virtual Interaction Configuration. And I can provide insight as to how it
may be used for such things as autocoding. Until recently, this past
week, I wasn't aware "autocoding" was an actual goal and practice of
anyone, though I have used the term for sever years now, and apparently,
given the above HIRTS DARP papers, my perspectives and thoughts on the
matter have been along the lines of what's been going on. Though I do
believe The VIC as a core can solve some of the problems facing commercial
autocoding packages (but this is something to get into later, when I can
communicate but showing).
Besides the VIC core, there is the pre-automation code base(s) to create
for whatever programming language(s) people want to use. And that's
something clearly beyond my ability to directly do, at least in the
beginning. Besides, there are many other things the VIC can be used for
besides autocoding. Consider it a tool for general automation...
At any rate I do believe Autocoding is a worthwhile goal that the GNU
community can shine at. And I think some of you, in consideration of the
HIRTS DARP link contents and the USPTO comment, will too.
There are nine action constants and by identifying them in what we do, by
super-imposing or overlaying these actions upon what we do, we can
identify the automation points. With this, we can automate what we do
thru computers, including programming. And what is programming but the
automation of complexity that is made up of simpler things, done so to
make the use and reuse of such complexity easy for the user.
What language you use is perhaps more a matter of interfacing to a process
that eventually is translated into machine readable form, binary machine
code. Mixing and matching languages for the best of effect shouldn't be a
problem as it eventually gets converted to the machine code common. But
understand that this is not a new language or a replacement of languages,
rather a tool set to allow the automation of language use. I.E. automating
the do's, don'ts and standards in any language as well as any dynamically
repeatable sequence of functionality.
Certainly everyone does understand in reading and responding to posts
here, they actually make use of all nine action (the crew of the
Nebachadnezzar [each persons ship]).
It's physics!
Lets see now (using the metaphors of the movie "The Matrix"):
Switch (AI - alternate/activate interface) - start and stop, change
interfaces - Uh, start up Web Browser/newsreader/email client and connect.
Go to group, thread....
Apoc (PK - Place Keeper) - keep track of where you are - Pick up where
you left off on the thread..
Tank (OI - Obtain Input - Output to-> Input) - get input - read with eyes.
Mouse (IP - InPut set) - input from - internet and monitor
Dozer (OP - OutPut set) - push output to - via keyboard/mouse to Mailing
list posting.
Neo (SF - Sequence stufF) - one step at a time - damn this non-polyphonic
qwerty keyboard and mouse...
Morpheus (IQ - Intelligence Quotient) - what's the meaning of the post
I'm reading, what the meaning I want to respond with - within the (KE'd)
constraints of
Trinity (ID - IDentify) - identify posters and forum - hey there is one
by ____ in ____ forum, now I know to be (KE'd) constrained as to how I
respond.
Cypher (KE - Knowledge Enable)- constraints to apply to Morpheus (IQ)
meanings and Trinity (ID) poster named _____ and _____ forum and ____
topic.
Of course the three agents represent the three fundamental concepts of
INPUT, PROCESSING, OUTPUT. The nine above are an expansion upon them. Just
as in physics, the more details you have the greater the control.
Maybe it'd be a worthwhile exercise to ask others to give an example of
their use of the nine, in using computer or other non-computer related
things done?
There is something else that makes such a configuration of functionality
even more useful, beyond just programming and that is to supply the user
with the three primary User Interfaces. The CommandLine Interface, The GUI
and the side door to application/functionality external control. And
example that may be seen as the Amiga Arexx "Ports" found pretty much
standard in amiga applications, libraries and devices. But lets just call
it the Automation Programming Interface (API), as the general concept of
this "side door" exist in many different flavors and limitations usually
unfriendly in standard an ease of use.
But with all three accessible in a user friendly way..... Well if you
eliminat one of the primary colors of light (RGB) then the remaining
combination is far more limiting than -1/3 due to synergy of the three.
The same door of possibilities exist with the three primary user
interfaces.
If interested in helping, it's an open project, let me know.
If interested in using such a tool, then say so here, let others know.
its ok to learn new things, i dont want to switch entirely to a diffrent job, i dont mind learning more about what i do
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Hmmmm, you may have to edit out some of the "spaces" from the links in the above message, in order to make them work.
I have no idea where those spaces came from. Perhaps from the minds of the arrogant elite as representations of what they have upstairs?????
Part of the problem has to do with the fact that Moore's law is still true, and hardware manufacturers everywhere are striving ever harder to extend its lifetime more than half a generation after Gordon Moore himself said it would end. This means that technology is getting more and more complex at an exponential rate, so much so that only those of us who are comfortable with such rapid evolution can stay on top of things, and usually, not even then. This is an explosion of complexity, and I think most people do not get a buzz out of comprehending complexity that changes all the time. In fact, such an explosion of complexity is terrifying to almost everyone, and is at the core of most technophobia.
Moore's Law should come to an end, and by this I mean that the pace of evolutionary progress of semiconductor and hence computer technology would slow down to perhaps a linear scale, or any scale that would give time for most people to think about what they have and what they can do with it. That's the problem with Moore's Law: it doesn't give anyone but those who choose to be part of the technological élite to even think about how it will affect their lives.
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
I've got bad news for you. Get rich quick schemes don't work. People generally do not get rich simply because they are in posession of some super-secret cure-all piece of knowledge. People that are CEO material don't worry about raising the bar, because they are able to consistantly elevate themselves above it. There are two words that will invariably best describe someone in the technical field that relies completely on their knowledge for job security. LAID OFF. The ability to learn new things, adapt quickly, apply knowledge in a practical way... now that's worth something.
(* Despite the proliferation of tech toys and work devices in people's lives, the gap between the tech-savvy and the techno-confused keeps growing.... *)
What about the gap between socially savvy people who get the girls and the recognition, and us dweebs who don't know how to sugar-coat the ugly truth of life?
Isn't there an institute for us yet?
Table-ized A.I.
I've had to train about 500 users in the past six months in small groups of 1-5 each. The application is a moderately complex web app with tabbed windows and a drop down menu that has the different actions you can take. I noticed that certain people tend to "get it" faster than others regardless of age, sex, race etc., and I think that these groups correspond to the Myers-Briggs test.
:
Myers-Briggs is a way of grouping people into common personality types. There are generally 4 groups (some tests further break down the categories). They are
- friendlies : the "let's just get along" people. An example might be someone in customer service who really likes their job and likes helping people out.
- expressive : the "here's my big idea, ignore the details people". Examples are sales people and entreprenuers.
- drivers : the "damn the torpedos we're getting this done my way" people. Examples are bosses (and bossy people).
- analyticals : the leave me in a room by myself and I'll get it done. Programmers are typically analyticals.
There are communication problems between the groups. Each group has a different desired outcome and a different way of expressing themselves. For example, friendlies want all groups in the conversation to be happy, and friendlies tend to be introverted. Drivers are typically extroverted, and they want the task/job complete regardless of stepping on people's toes. Imagine the "conversation" between a driver boss ordering a friendly to do something. The friendly will nod and say yes to reduce friction in the conversation, but the conversation will be totally one-sided from the driver.
You get the picture. So the application I'm training people on designed by an analytical, but it has to "communicate" to all four personality types. During training, I notice that people who fall in the analytical and driver categories pick up the training/application quickly without much fuss. The analyticals tend to stay quiet or ask very focused questions. The drivers complain about having to use the system etc. Expressives and friendlies tend to not understand the system without major hand holding. I'm not sure why this is.
Have you ever designed a system and the way you laid it out makes perfect sense to you, but someone else does not? It could be a communication issue.
Office Depot. After getting bodily hurled out of the plummeting tech economy, I've ended up selling furniture for the time being. "It'll show up between 8:30 and 5."
"But..."
"Sorry."
"Can you at least add a note to my file asking them to call first?"
"I'd be happy to, but they often ignore said note. Sorry."
And the funny thing is, sometimes they complain and make noise, but they always knuckle under and do what's convenient for us even though they're paying us money. Suckers.
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
> You are not being forced to be a programmer. You could be a nurse. You could be a psychologist. You could be a civil engineer. You could be a writer. You could be an elementary teacher. From what I can grasp by the tone/content of your posts, you jumped in on the computer industry because you saw it as nothing but a way to make a quick buck. When you're being entirely selfish in your decisions, we are not obligated to pity you when you don't like what you get. If you truly want to become financially comfortable, the best thing you can do is find a field that you enjoy. Part of the reason that those people with natural ability and interest in computers are spending their evenings learning new skills *might* be to improve their pay, but a fair chunk of it is most likely that it's a joy to do. Get into a field where it would be a joy to spend your evenings tinkering with new facets of it, and you'll be putting yourself into a position to advance. Then learn to manage your money so that you can make the best of what you get. You may find yourself a millionaire at 40 and so happy with your work that you won't WANT to retire early. Why waste all this time on being miserable and trying to make sure that everyone else is too?
...This last group [those who simply buy a new produt when theirs breaks] may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
;-)
;) ). I'll just by a universal remote, or a new cassette player for $5-$10 at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, if my computer stops working, or my car breaks down, you can bet I'm going to make every attempt to fix it, or get it fixed, before I throw in the towel and start hunting for a replacement.
;) ) and don't consider, or even realize, all of the other functions a PC is capable of. Those who said that they don't fully understand how to use their PCs are probably either experienced users who better understand how much a PC can do, or less knowledgeable folks who have seen a technical guru do things with a PC that they don't understand or don't know how to do.
;)
;) ).
;-D
;)
;) ).
;) )
;) A computer, on the other hand, is about as interactive as technology gets. They also differ in terms of function. A TV essentially has one function; to display moving pictures and sound to the viewer. A computer has far too many functions to even begin listing them.
;)
;-)
;-D ;-D )
Well, now, this depends on exactly what that "something" is, doesn't it? I wonder how this question was worded.
First of all, are there really people out there who will simply buy a new product at the first sign of trouble, without even attempting to discern what went wrong? That doesn't sound too smart to me; it sounds rather stupid, actually. Do they toss their boom boxes in the trash when the batteries die? Do they discard their remote controls if they don't work because they aren't pointing them at the TV? There are users who call tech support without trying even the simplest troubleshooting on their own, though, so I suppose there are probably people who bypass that step altogether and just buy a new one. I'd hardly call them "tech vets," however, unless you're referring to the sheer number of gadgets and gizmos that probably pass through their hands and into a landfill somewhere in the course of a year...
Now, as for something that really *is* broken...whether I try to fix it or just replace it depends on what the item is, how complicated it would be to repair, and how much a replacement would cost (in terms of price and effort). If my TV remote really does stop working, or my cheap Walkman knockoff breaks, I'm not going to waste the time and effort to try and fix them (well, maybe out of *curiosity*, I might take 'em apart...but I'd do so knowing full well I'd never get 'em back together again
The survey of nearly 3000 adults...
Now, I might not be an expert on surveys, but three *thousand* people? There were more people than that in my high school, for goodness sake! That seems pretty darn small to get a real representative example, especially with the broad range of criteria they covered (race, age, geographic location, etc.)
Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features...
This statement illustrates an important distinction between *perceived* functionality and *actual* functionality. I know of no human being who "fully understands" every use and feature of a desktop computer system. I seriously doubt that any exist. I don't think there is even anyone who can claim to fully understand how to use all the features of a single *operating system*, much less a computer system.
This statement makes me think that the respondants who did claim to "fully understand how to operate them and all their features" are actually the least knowledgeable when it comes to operating a computer. Most likely, they use the computer for a few simple tasks (read email, write letters, look at porn
Northeasterners are the most confused, Midwesterners the most computer-confident. When attempting to learn their way around a new purchase, 89 percent consult instruction manuals, poor saps.
First of all...89 percent of *who*? Midwesterners? Northerners? People surveyed? Dogs?
Secondly, when "learning their way around a new technology," is it any wonder that most (sensible) people consult instructions manuals, at least to some degree? I always at least skim instruction manuals for most products I buy. I could probably figure out how to use most of them without assistance, but by checking the instructions, I usually learn about cool features or abilities that I never would have found, or would have taken a long time to find, otherwise. And if you're unfamiliar with a new product, the instruction manual is the best place to start (though, sadly, it's rarely the best place to finish...
The scary group is the 11% who *don't* RTFM when they're trying to use a new product. A few of these are probably just folks who are good at figuring it out on their own. The rest are the ones who call tech support to ask why their new toy doesn't work, only to be told that it needs to be plugged in first, or that they need to press that button marked "ON" to make it work...
Television, meanwhile, continues its long reign as Americans' most beloved and comprehensible technology. In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use. More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Bwahahahahahaha...*ahem*...excuse me...
How many functions are required to use a television? Well, let's see...there's one manual task to learn: pushing a button. Pretty simple. Doesn't take long. Even mice can do that. Ahd how many functions do you need to learn to work a TV? Technically, two...turn the thing on and change the channel. In practicality, about five. On/Off, Channel Up, Channel Down, Volume Up, Volume Down. Voila...you're watching TV! Wheee!
Now, let's take a computer. First, manual tasks. Well, we gotta learn how to move the mouse (and associate those movements with a cursor on the screen). We gotta left-click, right-click, double-click. Got that? Good...now learn to type. Figure out the QWERTY keyboard layout. Now figure out how to press two keys at once. Now, press three at once. (Hint: Practice with CTRL+ALT+DEL, you'll use these quite a bit
OK, now that you've got all that down, it's time to learn Windows! To start, click the Start button. To turn it off, click the Start button. Yeah, same button... (and so on, and so forth...
Comparing a TV to a computer is like saying if you know how to watch Top Gun on your VCR, you oughta be able to fly an F-16. A TV and a PC are worlds apart. Television is essentially passive entertainment. It requires an absolute minimum of interaction and input from the user. All you gotta do is pick a channel and sit back. A monkey could do it. Some probably have...
The media companies would like nothing more than to turn all of our computers into passive devices that do nothing but force-feed us whatever "content" they feel like pushing that day, and take our money in return. But if we reach that point, our computers aren't computers anymore; they're just TVs.
Bottom line: If you want a TV, buy a TV. Don't buy a computer and then complain because it isn't as easy to use as a TV.
A side note...did almost 20% of those surveyed really say they know how to use a computer better than a TV? Now, that's frightening. Wonder how many of those have an @aol.com on the tail end of their email addresses?
On the other hand, 65 percent of African-Americans say they know and understand the features of their mobile phones, compared with only 42 percent of whites and 56 percent of Hispanics.
I will refrain from commenting on a particular commonly held (and certainly incorrect) stereotype about a common career path of those of a particular race mentioned above and the neccesity of cell phones to this particular career...
(And for those who are offended, if you're smart enough to figure out what I'm talking about, you oughta be smart enough to know that I'm just joking...
The real bottom line to all of this: Technology is complicated. Let's face it...it's simply a fact that the more functions a particular device is capable of, the more complicated it is to operate that device, and the harder it is to learn to use it to it's fullest. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for easier, more user-friendly interfaces and devices, but we cannot expect a fully functional computer to be as easy to use as a television.
The real problem is, the only way to truly make a device easier to use, when you come right down to it, is to remove functionality. More than 80% of the population knows how to use a TV fairly well. But only 54-77% understand their VCRs. Why? Because a VCR is more complicated than a television. Why? Because it has more functions. The ease of using a device is, and always will be, inversely proportional to the device's functionality. We may be able to change the slope of this function slightly, but we will never be able to reverse it. A computer is not a toaster, and never will be.
DennyK
The number of novices is has been increasing due to sucessful marketing from ISPs, but few of these seem to make a transition from newbie to intermediate user. This could be explained by either lack of interest or lack of access.
I'd say a little of both, with emphasis on lack of access -- it's often very difficult for novices to navigate out of corporate 'walled gardens' and find useful learning materials. Some of the other posts have slammed PHBs and others who don't ask questions for fear of looking more stupid.
However, what would you say to a large group of such people who suddenly got over this fear? What are the important, non-dogmatic points and issues that need to be addressed to close the gap, real or perceived?
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
If you want to live on a ranch in Montana, that's what you should do. You can't wait for your next life.
Hey Jon, while I should trust you, can I read the survey myself? Got a good website?
Of work, to make a buck?
Of course i love technology, and i like computers, but this has nothing to do with working, working is all about making money, linux, building computers, learning about new technologies and experimenting, thats fun.
Most jobs arent fun, most jobs are repetitive, and you say find a perfect field, there is no perfect field which pays good, musician and actor and creative fields i can say are perfect the problem would be, your chances of getting in the door is about as high as your chances of going to space, becoming a professional athelete etc.
Its a mixture of what i'm naturally good at (computers) and what i know will pay well for a long time.
As far as me learning new skill, i'm betting i know more than you do and most people who are higher level than me, its not what you know its how many degrees you have, how much certification you have etc.
I dont mind learning, I hate tests and jumping through hoops. I never said i mind learning, but i want to learn in my own way on my own terms.
The diffrence between work and play is freedom.
Being forced to go to college and study something you arent even interested in to keep your job, is not freedom, being forced to learn programming when you hate programming is not fun, that doesnt mean you hate technoloogy and computers you just happen to hate the most profitable aspect of it.
I dont really enjoy programming, i dont have the patience. However I have to survive, Computers, its all i know and i'm not going to switch careers because I dont like programming.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Attitude has nothing to do with it.
.com companies before the big collapse. He has certifications just like you do, and to top it all off he has a degree.
You can go in there confident as hell, dressed up in a suit and tie, young and ambitious.
Then the guy you are competiting with, he has a few years experience, hes older, he worked with a few
Well lets see, you are young, with no experience, no degree, and just certifications. Sorry but theres no way in hell anyone in their right mind would choose you over an experienced worker with a degree.
When you got hired at 16, there was a shortage of experienced workers, they were hiring any kid off the street.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Quite frankly, bullshit. At several of the companies I used to consult, I get calls for references to people I think could do a job they have open, experience or not. The pay will vary, but I have still gotten four such calls in the last 10 months. Hell, at Kraft Foods they have a huge job posting board. Yes, most of the jobs require experience, but not all of them. Not the entry positions. Will there be competition? Yes. So what. At the company where I work, we're still hiring, because we're still culling the herd, so to speak. People get hired, people get fired.
People like you who blame the "recession" quite frankly don't know a fucking thing about the actual state of things beyond what you see on CNN. In truth, the recession(in manufacturing, the only one to truly get hit that hard) ended at the end of last year. Did a lot of bozo's with certifications and giant-sized ego's find themselves in a hard spot? Oh yeah. Is there still opportunity, especially for the young with no children, no spouse, no responsibilities that tie them down? Yes. Do they need dicks like you discouraging them? No. Shut the fuck up, unless you want to put up some hard non-anecdotal numbers(no friend of a friend BS) and quit bringing people down with your end of the world chicken little talk. There are roads in, even now.
as explained by Robert Anton Williams.
He gave forth an analogy that there are two kinds of humans, homo neophilius and homo neophobus. Those that enjoy and seek out the new, and those that enjoy and seek out the familiar.
What I really want to know is, where is this gap? What units is it measured in? I do not understand this analogy of 'GAP'. In what way are the people in group 'X' getting any more distant from the people in group 'Y'?
Sorry if I came off sounding as if I was knocking the midwest, it was more of a defense of the NE.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
It doesn't matter how good the tech industry record is. The worse, the better for playing around. A perfect record that results in a seamless computing experience... well, can't play in that sandbox!
Why? So that he can become the artist, not the technician. The technician does it by the book, and when something comes up that's not in the book, well, too bad.
The artist sees a situation and see the solution. Any problem, any computer. He is simply familiar with the computer in a way that people who aren't at that level cannot understand.
-lf (I'm not there yet, but I've seen it!)