so by your logic since it wasn't completely destroyed it's ok. So forms of female genital mutilation - such as removal of the clitoris - are perfectly ok since the woman can still enjoy sex (remember that woman i made reference to earlier? the one that wrote a book about this? i exchange emails with her).
Tell her that she achieves no pleasure, because she does - she knows that it's not as good as it should be but she still enjoys it - same with me and my modified genitalia.
You don't see circumcision as a serious issue because you don't understand the biology involved and what is actually taking place.
Can we just agree that non-medical modification of genitalia of minors is BAD - how hard is it to agree to that statement?
lemme make a quotation for you here.
Benefits enjoyed by males who are intact (not circumcised)
1. Full penis length and circumference. The "prepuce" (foreskin) constitutes 50% or more of the skin system of the penis [1]. If unfolded and spread flat, the average adult foreskin measures 60-90 square centimeters (10-14 square inches) [2], or about the size of an index card [see illustration]. The foreskin creates a visibly longer penis, especially when the foreskin extends beyond the head of the penis. Also, the double-layered tissue of the foreskin engorges with blood during erection and creates a visibly and sensually thicker shaft and glans.When the engorged foreskin retracts behind the coronal ridge of the glans, it often creates a wider and more pronounced "ridge" that many partners find especially stimulating during penetrative intercourse. The circumcised penis appears truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.
2. Protection. The sleeve of tissue known as the foreskin normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and environmental contaminants. The glans is intended by nature to be a protected internal organ, like the female clitoris [see illustration]. The effect of an exposed glans and resulting keratinization on human sexual response has never been studied. Increasing reports by circumcised men indicate that keratinization causes a loss of sexual sensation, pleasure and fulfillment [3, 4].
3. Ridged bands. The inner foreskin contains bands of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue [1]. They constitute a primary erogenous zone of the human penis and are important for realizing the fullness and intensity of sexual response [5].
4. Gliding action. The foreskin is the only moving part of the penis. During any sexual activity, the foreskin and glans work in unison; their mutual interaction creates a complete sexual response. In heterosexual intercourse, the non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth and pleasurable intercourse for both partners [Blue_ArrowD096.gif (140 bytes)see illustration]. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, dragging vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for non-painful intercourse [6].
5. Specialized sensory tissue. In addition to the "ridged bands" mentioned above, thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors (Meissner's corpuscles) constitute the most important sensory component of the penis [1]. The foreskin contains branches of the dorsal nerve and between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which are capable of sensing slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture [7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12].
6. The frenulum. This is a highly nerve-laden web of tissue that tethers the inner foreskin to the underside of the glans [see photo]. It is similar to the frenula found under the tongue, the upper lip and the clitoral hood (female foreskin). For many intact men, the penile frenulum is a male "G-spot" that is highly pleasurable when repeatedly stretched and relaxed during sexual activity [13]. Depe
oh PS - it's been shown that the studies that claimed that UTIs were less common in circumcised males were riddled with methodological errors. We evolved with a foreskin, for millions of years all human males had one, and the vast majority of human males on the planet right now have one still.
I see you know absolutely nothing about anatomy. The foreskin is the same structure as the clitoral hood. Removal of the clitoral hood, a form of female genital mutilation, is the direct female equivalent of removal of the foreskin. The foreskin contains 66% of the erogenous nerves of the penis, 50% of the mobile tissue (without that it is MUCH more likely for the female to get sore during intercourse). Only your ignorance makes it seem to be an obscene error in magnitude (that is to not say there aren't forms of FGM that are worse than the one mentioned, but that doesn't make circumcision not evil).
You know why people compaign against it? Because it was done on us when we were infants, without our consent or any ability to reverse the damage done. It is the ONLY cosmetic medical proceedure allowed to be performed on a child with a parents preference.
Even a small amount of HONEST research will reveal that circumcision is an evil practice.
It was started in the english speaking world as a cure to masturbation - because at the time (late 1800s) masturbation was considered the root of all evil. Dr Kellogg and a few others got everyone to start cutting off foreskins - Dr Kellogg also encouraged applying carbonic acid to the clitoris for the same reasons. Infact FGM was practiced in the united states within living history - see the book "The Rape of Innocence" by Patricia Robinett - a woman born in kansas in the 50s who had most of her labia and her clitoris removed.
So before you godwin the thread again, know what the fuck you're talking about.
that's not suprising... it requires a respectable medical organization and publication - such as the British Journal of Urology - to find articles critical of it. (and don't trust the american medical organizations.. they're still mired where the BJU was in the 1950s on the subject)
A great many, the problem with the "wisdom of the mob" theory is exactly that- the mob. Information unfavorable to cultural biases will be left out of the encylopedia - take the article on circumcision and the article on penis - there are a few fanatics (including an administrator and a member of arbcom) who use the rules to bludgeon people to keep information (that is clearly verifiable [read: medical studies]) out of those articles (and related ones) because it casts circumcision in an unfavorable light (and appropriately so - it's no more medically appropriate 99.9999999% of the time than female genital mutilation). The bias is subtle, one of withholding information, and the people enforcing the bias are very good at making it look like they're in the right - all because of the idea that "the wisdom of the mob" is infallible. there are definantly other articles that this is true about as well.
Wisdom of the Mob fails when Fact contradicts Culture.
No, we need a government that is more honorable that doesn't engage in unconstitutional search and seizure, that respect privacy, that doesn't go on fishing trips in your data storage. Crypto is there to protect you from this, use it.
PS: the "if you don't have anything to hide.. blah blah" argument is a load of horseapples and only a MORON doesn't know that.
so when the religious books tell you to go out and subjugate others, commit genocide, perform mutilations on your children that cannot be reversed, etc - we should just all think that it's not caused by religion.
no, i'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to admit it - but these things are indeed caused by religion. The "humans corrupt it" claim is laughable.
Faith is belief without evidence/sound logical justification. If there is evidence/sound logical justification, like there is for the scientific method, then it's not faith.
Do not confuse faith (explicitly no evidence) with belief (includes faith, as well as belief w/ evidence).
i'll throw you a bone and let you slide on the "i cannot show you" garbage for the sake of argument... describe me your methodology, i should be able to shoot it down on methodological grounds without worrying about the "i cannot show you" stuff.
"desire to believe" - if you "desire to believe" something, you're going to do so whether or not there is evidence and you're going to intentionally interpret things as evidence which are not. The Terry Goodkind book Wizard's First Rule comes to mind, and it's titular rule - "People are stupid. People are stupid and will believe anything if they either want it to be true, or are afraid it is true."
I'm not literally suffering from depression, i'm a very happy person and have fun all the time - i was using "it depresses me" as a figure of speech. It makes me very sad how immature my fellow humans are as to have to wrap themeselves in pleasant lies in lieu of reality.
I'm writing a comparative religion paper... not a fun thing to do on a friday (comparing christian holidays to the pre-christian european pagan holidays they ripped off)
So Stalin's 50-odd million in the name of protecting the Soviet Union was what, inconsequential?
do not put words in my mouth - i never said it was inconsequential, i just said that more war and death is caused by religion tha not
What about some of the high-profile genocides in the last 60 or so years?
most involved the two different factions having different religions.
What about, for that matter, the Iraq war? Religion wasn't invoked there, but tens of thousands have died already in that conflict. Jeez, you're making it hard for me to not invoke Godwin's law!
hmm... christian fundamentalists vs muslim fundamentalists by proxy.
a) rights have not be defined through religion b) for starters i have no piercings or tattoos.. but for effect there is a difference between voluntary self alteration (such as piercings and tattooes) and involuntary irreversable alteration of the genitals of a child before they can consent (in the cases i was refering to of male genital mutilation and female genital mutilation) c) it can simultaneously give emotional support (make you feel good, special, important) but at the same time cause damage (vult of virginity, anti-woman positions, anti-healthy-sexuality, anti-rationality) d) and religion has been the primary enabler of wars throughout history - crusades anybody? how about the holocaust? how about the war between hindus and muslims that's been brewing forever, how about muslims and jews, or christians and muslims, and on and on from today all the way back through history e) for every mendel there were 10,000 clergy who supressed science and knowledge - the dark ages ARE THE CHURCHS FAULT f) and you're a fucking moron
when i personify religion i am refering to it's organizations and individuals as a whole.. but I guess that's too difficult of a concept for an anonymous coward to grasp
good think you're not talking to a sophist who doesn't know what they're talking about... the primary religion i tend to piss on all the time is christianity and I know more about that fucking religion than most adherents to it know about it themselves! especially the ones who call themselves "biblical literalists"!
Moreover, some of what science would imply about man and our place in the universe is decidedly antagonistic to our sense of well-being and happiness.
oh boohooo booohooo i'm not the center of the universe boohooo. This is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM, humans need to grow the up and stop feeling the need to be the center of the fucking universe - you're not special, get over it.
Belief in some personal relationship with a higher power fills a human need, and has significant personal and societal value, even if it's not provable, and, for that matter, even if it's not true
Still a total load of utter bullshit. "Because it makes you feel good" is the WORST reason to believe ANYTHING - much less hold that thing to be factually true.
You have very strong faith in the scientific method, and that all knowledge of value can be empirically supported.
I Have faith in NOTHING. Don't ever imply that I have faith any anything ever again, it's insulting.
Nevertheless, it's the truth as I perceive it, after the experience of my own empirical testing.
show me this "empirical testing" if you have empirical evidence, then submit it for verification. The fact of the matter is you have no evidence, and you're right I do have a VERY strong (utterly destructive of your point) argument about your little "neener neener - I have evidence but you can't see it! Ha ha! i'm so special". For starters the circular logic - for that to constitute evidence for your diety you must first believe in your diety for you to be able to believe that "he doesn't want to ti be verifiable". What an utter crock of unreasonable bullshit. Seriously, you people make me embarassed to be human!
and you missed the point of my post - if you're going to assert something is real, you better well have fucking evidence. Religion is asserting something is real, they have no support. Sure it "serves a purpose" as a comfort blanket, but it does so much more damage, including damage to those that don't adhere to it, that I consider it nothing but filth that should be utterly destroyed.
Religion is responsible for the supression of my rights, the mutilation of my body and of millions of other people (males and females alike), the pyschological damaging of millions of people, the death of even more millions, the cause of untold wars, the supression of sceicen and progress.
Religion thinks it should force everyone to be compliant to it's wishes. By now humanity should have had enough of this shit, but I'm continually depressed by how mindlessly guillable other humans are and they cede their intellectual sovereignty to religion.
indeed... science concerns itself with figuring out what is factual... religion concerns itself with bullshit that cannot be supported in the slightest
(before you ask: yes i have a vendetta against the STL sometimes... i like to be able to use Watch effectively for debugging and that wasn't possible w/ STL in MSVC6... in MSVC8 it's much better)
if you don't think the java VM is slow then you aren't running many java apps. Startup time on java applets on sites i have to deal with is probably 100x greater than a C++ app doing the same function, and 20x greater than using AJAX to do the same thing.
From 1998 through 2002 I had a nice very stable (4 hours of downtime TOTAL in 4 years) DSL connection in Cedar Rapids, IA through a local ISP - about half the downtime was their fault (router went bad once, another time their big pipe went down) other half was qwest outtages (storm once, servicing another time).
Between then and now I had a mixture of college-provided lan, then cable internet (mediacom) which was decent - but i just moved this last few days to a new appartment - came with internet delivered via HPNA, shared bandwidth between multiple buildings (not told of this in advance), filtered (not told of this in advanced), qos-degraded for non http/imap/smtp/pop traffic (not told of this in advance) weee. So anyway.. nasty emails to the new landlords - and a new 1.5mbit Qwest DSL connection ordered [with my own DSL modem/bridge so i can get one that is JUST A BRIDGE since I already have a 10/100 switch/wireless-g ap/NAT router and qwest only lets you rent dsl modem/routers (one w/ wireless, one w/o)].
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Tell her that she achieves no pleasure, because she does - she knows that it's not as good as it should be but she still enjoys it - same with me and my modified genitalia.
You don't see circumcision as a serious issue because you don't understand the biology involved and what is actually taking place.
Can we just agree that non-medical modification of genitalia of minors is BAD - how hard is it to agree to that statement?
lemme make a quotation for you here.
oh PS - it's been shown that the studies that claimed that UTIs were less common in circumcised males were riddled with methodological errors. We evolved with a foreskin, for millions of years all human males had one, and the vast majority of human males on the planet right now have one still.
I see you know absolutely nothing about anatomy. The foreskin is the same structure as the clitoral hood. Removal of the clitoral hood, a form of female genital mutilation, is the direct female equivalent of removal of the foreskin. The foreskin contains 66% of the erogenous nerves of the penis, 50% of the mobile tissue (without that it is MUCH more likely for the female to get sore during intercourse). Only your ignorance makes it seem to be an obscene error in magnitude (that is to not say there aren't forms of FGM that are worse than the one mentioned, but that doesn't make circumcision not evil).
You know why people compaign against it? Because it was done on us when we were infants, without our consent or any ability to reverse the damage done. It is the ONLY cosmetic medical proceedure allowed to be performed on a child with a parents preference.
Even a small amount of HONEST research will reveal that circumcision is an evil practice.
It was started in the english speaking world as a cure to masturbation - because at the time (late 1800s) masturbation was considered the root of all evil. Dr Kellogg and a few others got everyone to start cutting off foreskins - Dr Kellogg also encouraged applying carbonic acid to the clitoris for the same reasons. Infact FGM was practiced in the united states within living history - see the book "The Rape of Innocence" by Patricia Robinett - a woman born in kansas in the 50s who had most of her labia and her clitoris removed.
So before you godwin the thread again, know what the fuck you're talking about.
that's not suprising... it requires a respectable medical organization and publication - such as the British Journal of Urology - to find articles critical of it. (and don't trust the american medical organizations.. they're still mired where the BJU was in the 1950s on the subject)
not going to disagree with you there - reference Dr Kellogg (As in frosted flakes, circumcision and acid on the clitoris)
A great many, the problem with the "wisdom of the mob" theory is exactly that- the mob. Information unfavorable to cultural biases will be left out of the encylopedia - take the article on circumcision and the article on penis - there are a few fanatics (including an administrator and a member of arbcom) who use the rules to bludgeon people to keep information (that is clearly verifiable [read: medical studies]) out of those articles (and related ones) because it casts circumcision in an unfavorable light (and appropriately so - it's no more medically appropriate 99.9999999% of the time than female genital mutilation). The bias is subtle, one of withholding information, and the people enforcing the bias are very good at making it look like they're in the right - all because of the idea that "the wisdom of the mob" is infallible. there are definantly other articles that this is true about as well.
Wisdom of the Mob fails when Fact contradicts Culture.
No, we need a government that is more honorable that doesn't engage in unconstitutional search and seizure, that respect privacy, that doesn't go on fishing trips in your data storage. Crypto is there to protect you from this, use it.
PS: the "if you don't have anything to hide.. blah blah" argument is a load of horseapples and only a MORON doesn't know that.
No, mythtv was explicitly permitted - they issued mythTV a service code for registering
clearly you haven't read the bible. god orders the israelites to commit genocide.
oops
my professor and I get along great - he agrees with me for the most part, though is a significantly more forgiving than I.
I expect an A in the class.
so when the religious books tell you to go out and subjugate others, commit genocide, perform mutilations on your children that cannot be reversed, etc - we should just all think that it's not caused by religion.
no, i'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to admit it - but these things are indeed caused by religion. The "humans corrupt it" claim is laughable.
Faith is belief without evidence/sound logical justification. If there is evidence/sound logical justification, like there is for the scientific method, then it's not faith.
Do not confuse faith (explicitly no evidence) with belief (includes faith, as well as belief w/ evidence).
i'll throw you a bone and let you slide on the "i cannot show you" garbage for the sake of argument... describe me your methodology, i should be able to shoot it down on methodological grounds without worrying about the "i cannot show you" stuff.
"desire to believe" - if you "desire to believe" something, you're going to do so whether or not there is evidence and you're going to intentionally interpret things as evidence which are not. The Terry Goodkind book Wizard's First Rule comes to mind, and it's titular rule - "People are stupid. People are stupid and will believe anything if they either want it to be true, or are afraid it is true."
I'm not literally suffering from depression, i'm a very happy person and have fun all the time - i was using "it depresses me" as a figure of speech. It makes me very sad how immature my fellow humans are as to have to wrap themeselves in pleasant lies in lieu of reality.
I'm writing a comparative religion paper... not a fun thing to do on a friday (comparing christian holidays to the pre-christian european pagan holidays they ripped off)
He didn't murder people in the NAME of atheism, i recommend you go to college instead since i'm already there.
You fail at attempting to turn my own point around on me.
do not put words in my mouth - i never said it was inconsequential, i just said that more war and death is caused by religion tha not
most involved the two different factions having different religions.
hmm... christian fundamentalists vs muslim fundamentalists by proxy.
a) rights have not be defined through religion
b) for starters i have no piercings or tattoos.. but for effect there is a difference between voluntary self alteration (such as piercings and tattooes) and involuntary irreversable alteration of the genitals of a child before they can consent (in the cases i was refering to of male genital mutilation and female genital mutilation)
c) it can simultaneously give emotional support (make you feel good, special, important) but at the same time cause damage (vult of virginity, anti-woman positions, anti-healthy-sexuality, anti-rationality)
d) and religion has been the primary enabler of wars throughout history - crusades anybody? how about the holocaust? how about the war between hindus and muslims that's been brewing forever, how about muslims and jews, or christians and muslims, and on and on from today all the way back through history
e) for every mendel there were 10,000 clergy who supressed science and knowledge - the dark ages ARE THE CHURCHS FAULT
f) and you're a fucking moron
when i personify religion i am refering to it's organizations and individuals as a whole.. but I guess that's too difficult of a concept for an anonymous coward to grasp
good think you're not talking to a sophist who doesn't know what they're talking about... the primary religion i tend to piss on all the time is christianity and I know more about that fucking religion than most adherents to it know about it themselves! especially the ones who call themselves "biblical literalists"!
oh boohooo booohooo i'm not the center of the universe boohooo. This is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM, humans need to grow the up and stop feeling the need to be the center of the fucking universe - you're not special, get over it.
Still a total load of utter bullshit. "Because it makes you feel good" is the WORST reason to believe ANYTHING - much less hold that thing to be factually true.
I Have faith in NOTHING. Don't ever imply that I have faith any anything ever again, it's insulting.
show me this "empirical testing" if you have empirical evidence, then submit it for verification. The fact of the matter is you have no evidence, and you're right I do have a VERY strong (utterly destructive of your point) argument about your little "neener neener - I have evidence but you can't see it! Ha ha! i'm so special". For starters the circular logic - for that to constitute evidence for your diety you must first believe in your diety for you to be able to believe that "he doesn't want to ti be verifiable". What an utter crock of unreasonable bullshit. Seriously, you people make me embarassed to be human!
"in the name of religion" and "because of religion" are the same thing - one of them is merely an apologists cop-out to try and shift the blame.
nationalism hasn't been used anywhere nearly as effectively as religious bigotry to start wars and kill people.
and you missed the point of my post - if you're going to assert something is real, you better well have fucking evidence. Religion is asserting something is real, they have no support. Sure it "serves a purpose" as a comfort blanket, but it does so much more damage, including damage to those that don't adhere to it, that I consider it nothing but filth that should be utterly destroyed.
Religion is responsible for the supression of my rights, the mutilation of my body and of millions of other people (males and females alike), the pyschological damaging of millions of people, the death of even more millions, the cause of untold wars, the supression of sceicen and progress.
Religion thinks it should force everyone to be compliant to it's wishes. By now humanity should have had enough of this shit, but I'm continually depressed by how mindlessly guillable other humans are and they cede their intellectual sovereignty to religion.
indeed... science concerns itself with figuring out what is factual... religion concerns itself with bullshit that cannot be supported in the slightest
every time i've used the two on the same hardware VS has been much faster (not to mention much more usable than) eclipse.
and i hate every other MS app in existance... but they did get one right for the most part - VS
Templates aren't readable?
e routes/code/core/opstack.h?revision=1.1&view=marku pe routes/code/core/oplinkedlist.h?revision=1.1&view= markupe routes/code/core/fe_dbl_linked_list.h?revision=1.2 &view=markup
O'RLY?
http://alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/alliance/trad
http://alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/alliance/trad
http://alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/alliance/trad
(before you ask: yes i have a vendetta against the STL sometimes... i like to be able to use Watch effectively for debugging and that wasn't possible w/ STL in MSVC6... in MSVC8 it's much better)
if you don't think the java VM is slow then you aren't running many java apps. Startup time on java applets on sites i have to deal with is probably 100x greater than a C++ app doing the same function, and 20x greater than using AJAX to do the same thing.
don't even get me started on desktop apps....
From 1998 through 2002 I had a nice very stable (4 hours of downtime TOTAL in 4 years) DSL connection in Cedar Rapids, IA through a local ISP - about half the downtime was their fault (router went bad once, another time their big pipe went down) other half was qwest outtages (storm once, servicing another time).
Between then and now I had a mixture of college-provided lan, then cable internet (mediacom) which was decent - but i just moved this last few days to a new appartment - came with internet delivered via HPNA, shared bandwidth between multiple buildings (not told of this in advance), filtered (not told of this in advanced), qos-degraded for non http/imap/smtp/pop traffic (not told of this in advance) weee. So anyway.. nasty emails to the new landlords - and a new 1.5mbit Qwest DSL connection ordered [with my own DSL modem/bridge so i can get one that is JUST A BRIDGE since I already have a 10/100 switch/wireless-g ap/NAT router and qwest only lets you rent dsl modem/routers (one w/ wireless, one w/o)].
so... dsl definantly not dead.