Well unless you got a router with a verizon FIOS interface in it, you'd have to.
And I'm guessing that it will probably do your standard "routing" as much as a cablemodem does so it wouldn't be much different - you'd still need your linux box routing for you.
Or, it could be a cool little routing device like I got with my DSL when I was in NYC. Little ZyXel thing, it could do port forwarding, GRE nat, DHCP server, and all sorts of other cool stuff.
"I honestly fear that by the time the American people get fed-up enough to realize this, the transformation will be complete, and we will be powerless to change it."
Pretty sure it's already happened, it's just that the people still don't realize it.
"As for the internet, we knew our modems weren't good enough back then, and were always complaining."
So you make the arguement that you speak for everyone when you say that cablemodems and DSL are good enough?
Files have gotten bigger, media is higher quality, and it takes longer and longer to download things now. CD images take 20 minutes.
I could send an e-mail just fine with my 2400 baud modem, but forget any kind of media. Today, I can sent a photo just fine but forget any kind of video.
12 years ago, there was complaining that the word processors were difficult to use because you'd have to print your document to see what it would really look like on paper. They wanted advanced template editing, WYSIWYG editing and previewing, high resolution graphics, integration with other applications..
I think that there's something written about everything on the Internet. But a lot of the time what you get is junk, or very short. There's tons of news clippings, but nothing in depth.
Not like a series of books. There might be entire volumes of study and materials on very obscure subjects, whereas on the Internet, the popular and common prevails.
Until all that work is freely available and searchable online, and I mean ALL of it, it'll never replace the library.
I like Adobe software though, and I'd have to guess that they didn't just buy Macromedia to get rid of the competition. They'll probably keep on truckin' with Macromedia's software line-up for quite some time.
No, see.. if a company makes CHANGES to a GPL software and uses it internally, they don't HAVE to distribute it, and if someone did - against company policy and intention - I don't see how you think the company is now responsible to distributing it?
The insinuation is ridiculous. Nobody would ever be able to run modified GPL programs because they'd all have to have a delivery infrastructure in place to give people their changes all the time.
That's not in the spirit of the GPL or OSS and that's not the type of system the GPL was intended to create.
I think that Word/Excel XP were both just a little too much when it came to all the toolbar icons up there by default - I see no reason to put mail merge and equation editor up there ad default menu items.
But I think they improved both products quite a bit with 2003, along with the UI improvements in Outlook 2003 (I think the right-side preview pane was a really good idea, and cached exchange mode is SO much better then old offline mode.)
The default screen layout on Word/Excel 2003 is a lot less cluttered and everything seems just a little more organized. While functionally O2k3 didn't add much, they're just more enjoyable to use.
I don't find this software difficult to use productively at all. While I would agree that you can sure dig yourself into a mess with Word if you don't set things up correctly, if you DO use templates and formatting correctly these things just don't happen.
It takes a fair amount of time and plenty of hours logged in the software to begin using it properly, like most other full applications - same as Adobe stuff like Photoshop and Premiere.
You have the ability to type some stuff and put out a decent looking document or spreadsheet without knowing much about the software, but until you really get into it, you'll find yourself frustrated if you try to do more advanced layout.
"Spoken like a college kid who has never had to watch his money in his life."
I'm 26 years old, I went to a technical college that I finished 6 years ago, and I paid for it myself.
If spending $9 on a movie before hearing three hundred reviews from strangers, spending more time researching whether or not to see it then the time it would take to actually see it makes me a sound spoiled, then I guess I'm guilty..
"Sounds to me like you have a serious lack of imagination. There are lots of things to be done that don't cost money"
This guy "lures" this girl for two years? I don't know, he doesn't sound like a sexual predator to me. She's young, sure. But she was 17 when they were *going to meet* (read: they didn't.)
So if I meet a girl online, then find out that she's 15 years old, and say "Hey, maybe in a couple years we could meet each other" - I'm suddenly a potential rapist? This guy was only 23 when he met her, it's not like he was a 40 year old guy. I've known of plenty of guys in their mid 20's going out with girls at 18 or 19 years old.
I really don't think a company could be held responsible if their modified non-open GPL-based software was leaked. They were in compliance; someone else broke the license by distributing the software that was not supposed to be.
I think a lot of times they have a different crew writing the Linux apps then they do the Windows apps.
In the Windows world, I'd have to guess that people like the oddball interfaces you see all the time (I hate 'em all.) But in the unix world, I'd have to guess that with all the different widgets and toolkits out there, a "selling" point might be that the application actually fits in.
And with the current crowd that generally uses a linux system, I think you're right that they couldn't get away with it.
Yea, kinda like how MacOS does it. Brushed metal? Sure, we'll put that on the finder and Quicktime. But we'll put plastic on other parts, with a little pinstripe theme mixed in.
But it's not just the widget, with Office 2003. They changed the way a lot of the UI elements fit onto the screen in a good way.
Again, like a lot of the kids replying to my post here, you obviously don't utilize the more powerful features of the software. That's totally fine, but there's a lot of folks that do use the stuff.
There's a lot there that Word and OpenOffice Writer can do for you - advanced formatting, template based styles, automaticlly adjusting contents and indexes, liking to other documents, linking to other applications... plus a whole crap load of other things.
A modern word processor has a lot more features that you'd find in a desktop publishing application, and one of the great things is that you can seperate the content from the formatting.
Do you think that these people spend money and/or time to add features to the software that absolutely nobody wants?
How do you assume I create garbage? I use properly formatted documents that don't break when I move things around. If you actually use the software like you should, you don't run into these kinds of problems.
Word is good for whipping up something quick, but it can also do a lot for 100+ page documents with table of contents and indexes.
If I want to change the way my document looks, all I need to do is change a few of the templates and voila, it's formatted differently.
I'm sorry if you can't figure out Microsoft Word, man, but I did. And because OpenOffice is so similar, I can create nice documents with that too. You probably can't, though.
I've used FrameMaker in the past, and it's very nice. But it's not necessary when I can do everything I want to do with Word/Writer.
Of course, I shouldn't have even wasted my time with someone that insists on using phrases like "Microsoft Turd." I'm surprised you didn't say "M$ Turd."
Perhaps it's not the calculations that slow it down, but the subroutines that grab data from the other spreadsheet. Not that it's a great excuse, but there's a lot of factors to be considered when loading up parts of other files.
Well no shit, but why should this be necessary? And what about users that aren't too savy with these things to know that some random.exe in the startup configuration is okay to delete?
So, yea. We should all drive around 12 year old cars wearing 12 year old clothes. We'll drive right home and use 12 year old computers while watching 12 year old TV's, and re-runs of 12 year old shows, while we wait for a 1MB file to take 20 minutes to download on our 2400 baud modems.
Because if it was good enough 12 years ago, it MUST be good enough now. Nevermind the fact that there's been just a little improvement in things... just a little..
You apparently don't need anything more then a basic word processor, and that's fine. But just because you don't - don't assume nobody else does either.
I don't necessarily agree about the menu-hiding thing (it's something of a love-hate kind of thing for me - I like it because it keeps my menus clean, but I hate it when there's an option that I use sometimes which is always hidden) since I don't believe that the intention was to hide things from people that don't know how to use the software.
But I do agree that the mindset needs to change. People should learn to use their computers to some degree. I guess there's a lot of people out there that just don't want to be bothered with anything of the sort - whereas I like to know how everything works computer or not.
I could never charge friends and family to fix their machines, though. My mom would probably slap me even though I'm 26 years old, and my friends wouldn't feel very obligated to help me when I need it. But when it comes to helping friends of friends and friends of family, I generally just avoid offering up any help.
Well, at least I know what you mean even if the other two people that replied have no clue.
I've installed a lot of software that insists on putting something in startup. Network tools that want to put a menu in the systray, adobe software (like photoshop) that puts all this Adobe stuff in startup, and even a video encoder I have (a very nice one too) drops something in startup. Most of the media players do it, too.
It's not necessary, for the most part. While some applications have an option to turn these features on and off, most don't. It's silly.
On my workstations it's not really a big deal, but it does make startup slower and you never know what kind of instability these programs can cause while using the computer.
I was wondering when someone would say something useless like that. Didn't take long.
So how about this: "you don't NEED a car that can go above (INSERT YOUR STUPID FUCKING SPEED LIMIT HERE, OKAY SHIT FOR BRAINS? HERE,) but it's sure nice to have one huh?"
Is that better for you, asshat?
And you're wrong anyways. Top speed of an old jeep might be 50MPH, but that doesn't mean the ENGINE is running in the red.
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Well unless you got a router with a verizon FIOS interface in it, you'd have to.
And I'm guessing that it will probably do your standard "routing" as much as a cablemodem does so it wouldn't be much different - you'd still need your linux box routing for you.
Or, it could be a cool little routing device like I got with my DSL when I was in NYC. Little ZyXel thing, it could do port forwarding, GRE nat, DHCP server, and all sorts of other cool stuff.
"I honestly fear that by the time the American people get fed-up enough to realize this, the transformation will be complete, and we will be powerless to change it."
Pretty sure it's already happened, it's just that the people still don't realize it.
So, wondering why your post is marked as Informative.. it's got nothing to do with the topic at hand.
And FIOS is available... just about nowhere. Unless you live in select locations in California or Florida.
Something tells me they could still pump the 48V down the lines even without local analog service, though..
"As for the internet, we knew our modems weren't good enough back then, and were always complaining."
So you make the arguement that you speak for everyone when you say that cablemodems and DSL are good enough?
Files have gotten bigger, media is higher quality, and it takes longer and longer to download things now. CD images take 20 minutes.
I could send an e-mail just fine with my 2400 baud modem, but forget any kind of media. Today, I can sent a photo just fine but forget any kind of video.
12 years ago, there was complaining that the word processors were difficult to use because you'd have to print your document to see what it would really look like on paper. They wanted advanced template editing, WYSIWYG editing and previewing, high resolution graphics, integration with other applications..
I think that there's something written about everything on the Internet. But a lot of the time what you get is junk, or very short. There's tons of news clippings, but nothing in depth.
Not like a series of books. There might be entire volumes of study and materials on very obscure subjects, whereas on the Internet, the popular and common prevails.
Until all that work is freely available and searchable online, and I mean ALL of it, it'll never replace the library.
Who knows man.
I like Adobe software though, and I'd have to guess that they didn't just buy Macromedia to get rid of the competition. They'll probably keep on truckin' with Macromedia's software line-up for quite some time.
"Of course, I do think the guy should be fired, there is no question of that."
Why? Is it a crime now to meet members of the opposite sex while at work, be they customers or not?
No, see.. if a company makes CHANGES to a GPL software and uses it internally, they don't HAVE to distribute it, and if someone did - against company policy and intention - I don't see how you think the company is now responsible to distributing it?
The insinuation is ridiculous. Nobody would ever be able to run modified GPL programs because they'd all have to have a delivery infrastructure in place to give people their changes all the time.
That's not in the spirit of the GPL or OSS and that's not the type of system the GPL was intended to create.
I think that Word/Excel XP were both just a little too much when it came to all the toolbar icons up there by default - I see no reason to put mail merge and equation editor up there ad default menu items.
But I think they improved both products quite a bit with 2003, along with the UI improvements in Outlook 2003 (I think the right-side preview pane was a really good idea, and cached exchange mode is SO much better then old offline mode.)
The default screen layout on Word/Excel 2003 is a lot less cluttered and everything seems just a little more organized. While functionally O2k3 didn't add much, they're just more enjoyable to use.
I don't find this software difficult to use productively at all. While I would agree that you can sure dig yourself into a mess with Word if you don't set things up correctly, if you DO use templates and formatting correctly these things just don't happen.
It takes a fair amount of time and plenty of hours logged in the software to begin using it properly, like most other full applications - same as Adobe stuff like Photoshop and Premiere.
You have the ability to type some stuff and put out a decent looking document or spreadsheet without knowing much about the software, but until you really get into it, you'll find yourself frustrated if you try to do more advanced layout.
"Spoken like a college kid who has never had to watch his money in his life."
I'm 26 years old, I went to a technical college that I finished 6 years ago, and I paid for it myself.
If spending $9 on a movie before hearing three hundred reviews from strangers, spending more time researching whether or not to see it then the time it would take to actually see it makes me a sound spoiled, then I guess I'm guilty..
"Sounds to me like you have a serious lack of imagination. There are lots of things to be done that don't cost money"
Okay.. so, name some.
I just wanted to say that I agree with every one of your points.
This guy "lures" this girl for two years? I don't know, he doesn't sound like a sexual predator to me. She's young, sure. But she was 17 when they were *going to meet* (read: they didn't.)
So if I meet a girl online, then find out that she's 15 years old, and say "Hey, maybe in a couple years we could meet each other" - I'm suddenly a potential rapist? This guy was only 23 when he met her, it's not like he was a 40 year old guy. I've known of plenty of guys in their mid 20's going out with girls at 18 or 19 years old.
Sounds like another finger-in-the-chille to me.
I really don't think a company could be held responsible if their modified non-open GPL-based software was leaked. They were in compliance; someone else broke the license by distributing the software that was not supposed to be.
I think a lot of times they have a different crew writing the Linux apps then they do the Windows apps.
In the Windows world, I'd have to guess that people like the oddball interfaces you see all the time (I hate 'em all.) But in the unix world, I'd have to guess that with all the different widgets and toolkits out there, a "selling" point might be that the application actually fits in.
And with the current crowd that generally uses a linux system, I think you're right that they couldn't get away with it.
Yea, kinda like how MacOS does it. Brushed metal? Sure, we'll put that on the finder and Quicktime. But we'll put plastic on other parts, with a little pinstripe theme mixed in.
But it's not just the widget, with Office 2003. They changed the way a lot of the UI elements fit onto the screen in a good way.
Again, like a lot of the kids replying to my post here, you obviously don't utilize the more powerful features of the software. That's totally fine, but there's a lot of folks that do use the stuff.
There's a lot there that Word and OpenOffice Writer can do for you - advanced formatting, template based styles, automaticlly adjusting contents and indexes, liking to other documents, linking to other applications... plus a whole crap load of other things.
A modern word processor has a lot more features that you'd find in a desktop publishing application, and one of the great things is that you can seperate the content from the formatting.
Do you think that these people spend money and/or time to add features to the software that absolutely nobody wants?
How do you assume I create garbage? I use properly formatted documents that don't break when I move things around. If you actually use the software like you should, you don't run into these kinds of problems.
Word is good for whipping up something quick, but it can also do a lot for 100+ page documents with table of contents and indexes.
If I want to change the way my document looks, all I need to do is change a few of the templates and voila, it's formatted differently.
I'm sorry if you can't figure out Microsoft Word, man, but I did. And because OpenOffice is so similar, I can create nice documents with that too. You probably can't, though.
I've used FrameMaker in the past, and it's very nice. But it's not necessary when I can do everything I want to do with Word/Writer.
Of course, I shouldn't have even wasted my time with someone that insists on using phrases like "Microsoft Turd." I'm surprised you didn't say "M$ Turd."
Perhaps it's not the calculations that slow it down, but the subroutines that grab data from the other spreadsheet. Not that it's a great excuse, but there's a lot of factors to be considered when loading up parts of other files.
Well no shit, but why should this be necessary? And what about users that aren't too savy with these things to know that some random .exe in the startup configuration is okay to delete?
So, yea. We should all drive around 12 year old cars wearing 12 year old clothes. We'll drive right home and use 12 year old computers while watching 12 year old TV's, and re-runs of 12 year old shows, while we wait for a 1MB file to take 20 minutes to download on our 2400 baud modems.
Because if it was good enough 12 years ago, it MUST be good enough now. Nevermind the fact that there's been just a little improvement in things... just a little..
You apparently don't need anything more then a basic word processor, and that's fine. But just because you don't - don't assume nobody else does either.
I don't necessarily agree about the menu-hiding thing (it's something of a love-hate kind of thing for me - I like it because it keeps my menus clean, but I hate it when there's an option that I use sometimes which is always hidden) since I don't believe that the intention was to hide things from people that don't know how to use the software.
But I do agree that the mindset needs to change. People should learn to use their computers to some degree. I guess there's a lot of people out there that just don't want to be bothered with anything of the sort - whereas I like to know how everything works computer or not.
I could never charge friends and family to fix their machines, though. My mom would probably slap me even though I'm 26 years old, and my friends wouldn't feel very obligated to help me when I need it. But when it comes to helping friends of friends and friends of family, I generally just avoid offering up any help.
Well, at least I know what you mean even if the other two people that replied have no clue.
I've installed a lot of software that insists on putting something in startup. Network tools that want to put a menu in the systray, adobe software (like photoshop) that puts all this Adobe stuff in startup, and even a video encoder I have (a very nice one too) drops something in startup. Most of the media players do it, too.
It's not necessary, for the most part. While some applications have an option to turn these features on and off, most don't. It's silly.
On my workstations it's not really a big deal, but it does make startup slower and you never know what kind of instability these programs can cause while using the computer.
"the freeway I take to work every day is 75mph.."
I was wondering when someone would say something useless like that. Didn't take long.
So how about this: "you don't NEED a car that can go above (INSERT YOUR STUPID FUCKING SPEED LIMIT HERE, OKAY SHIT FOR BRAINS? HERE,) but it's sure nice to have one huh?"
Is that better for you, asshat?
And you're wrong anyways. Top speed of an old jeep might be 50MPH, but that doesn't mean the ENGINE is running in the red.
FUD is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I don't see anything in there that says anything about discouraging products or services.
The original comment *eluded* to proper, consise coding but was put out there just like any other FUD, especially because it's simply not true.