The folding thing only works in theory. Paper has yet to be folded more than 7 (could be 8?) times with out a machine. If you don't believe me just try it yourself.
Besides I'm pretty sure you and everyone else in this forum understood what he meant =)
Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with you about the "strategy" of developing the next gen system while the current system is still selling well.
The Play Station was selling well for a few years before the PS One (which is essentially the same thing). Even then you should realize that the moment a designer/coder/etc. is done building a thing he/she needs to start working on something new. They don't suddenly start working on something a couple of months before release.
It takes AT LEAST 5 experienced coders and perhaps as many as 10 more graphic/sound/support staff a full year of very hard work to make a game, let alone how long in "skilled" machine/man/hours it takes to build the console it's played upon.
The Dreamcast died because SEGA did not want to continue fighting with the big boys over and over again for how little money they were pulling in from hardware. It was on all of the news boards for quite a while. They had decided to switch their focus to software again (which is what they are good at). Sony keeps coming out on top because they do not restrict the developer (like Nintendo did with the 64) and they even go so far as to provide them useful tools.
Besides all of that we should all be glad Sony starts talking about it now so that we, as consumers, can take part in the process of making the next gen more in line with what we would like to see as well.
While your examples seem weak to me, because they are all things that we agreed to allow our gov't to handle on behalf of us and your interesting perspective on my personality feels irrelevant to me. I do agree in principal that my wording is a bit harsh. So to that end I apologize to you and all other Canadians/Americans alike if I insulted your sensibilities.
I am perhaps alone in my quest for Canadian pride. The endless stream of American jokes at our expense is getting to me. Especially when we so often seem to be helping them with their problems and shortages due to mismanagement by their gov't.
I realize that our gov't is FAR from utopian, but most of the places where I disagree with their policies is in regards to how often we bend over for US business interests with absolutely no concern for our own.
Again I appologize for upsetting you and/or anyone else.
This is an ill-fated line of taxation AGAIN! I am a coder and I can tell you that this is not going to help me one bit. It will help the publishers, that put my hard work to media and resell it for 20X+ what I get paid for it, make more money. Instead of these greedy buggers figuring out better ways to protect my code and thus employing more of my ilk, they scream and yell that they are being ripped off until they get money from the gov't. This is AFTER they have already "reluctantly" raised their prices to "compensate" for the same. Yet I somehow doubt that I will see a raise in my income due to this.
This is just another case of our gov't giving into the demands of a bunch of businesses that can't balance their budgets, because they are too busy golfing. This is as a result of "blackmail" by the few publisher's we still have left here to take the services somewhere else unless we pay them more. Let's call this what it is: "The Keep Them Here Tax".
The Brain is recordable media, are we going to tax that too?
There is another topic developing in Washington that is the same veiled attempt of people who don't understand something attempting suck money that isn't there out of it. One day all the coders in the world are going to live in a small caribean island with no extradiction treaty with the US or Canada and then where will these 2 short sited countries be?
ARRRRGGGHH!!! Hasn't ANYONE ever heard of an honest days work anymore? Is it everyone's goal to make money off of someone else's time and energy? To the governments of the world I say: "Get your bloody hands out of my pockets!!! There isn't anything there anymore! I just submitted income tax!!!"
I'm not sure if this point has been made already (not in the mood for sifting today), but taxes are not supposed to be a profit sharing cut for the gov't. They are ONLY to alleviate the cost incurred by the gov't in question to help support the creation and deployment of a company's service/product. Some where further down someone mentions Coca-Cola and their case, but it is completely different with the creation of software. Software does not impact the environment at all where it is created. Nor does incur costs to anyone other than developer (or sponsoring publisher). Not even the machines it is created upon, as these have already been taxed for their creation. The gov't is going after software because they think we make too much money. When you say my brain is worth $75/hr it's not just that hour your buying it's all of the hours of sifting through endless amounts of information on new/old techniques, technologies, and costings.
There is no reasonable reason why software "manufacturing" (coding) should be taxed as it makes no impact on anything other than the coder's brain. Not to mention that the whole argument is totally contrary to the logic of a "tax break" for R&D. I think further down someone mentions this already.
Another point is that there is no way to establish how much the code was worth to produce unless you tax based on the time it took to create it, special licenses required (use of logos, SDK's, and other copyright material), and the hardware it was developed on (which is reusable across multiple projects). All of these things have already been taxed, including the time it took to create it (in the form of income tax AND the "employer's burden" for same). Also if the intention is to tax time then what is to stop the developer from saying it only took 10 hours to bang out said code instead of the 10,000 hours a year long project with 5 coders takes (conservative estimate).
None of this even takes into account the Internet, where you can make money in a round about way from making a cool app (like slashdot) that people can use for free via advertising and such. Then what do you tax? The whole infrastructure down to the server? They all had a part in making this engine function and thus creating any income derived from it. Then the gov't will need a "special task force" that is comprised of "experts" to make assessments of the value of the software systems that have been created, which of course costs more money and who's going to pay for that?
Ok, one last point. How do you tax an idea? Some would say that your entire life experience helps to shape your view of the world and thus create your moments of enlightenment or bursts of inspiration. So do you tax the coders entire life every time he concieves a new line of code? Of course not, but how could you draw the line. Any argument you can use to say Intellectual Property can be taxed by , I could use to argue an unlimited and completely arbitrary system of taxation for the same that would sound ridiculous even to the most ignorant "ludite".
Never mind that!! The whole concept of taxing people for developing software as a "manufacturing" tax is just another MORONIC attempt to gain an upper hand on people the gov't can't seem to grasp. Which is self defeating because, as we see in my province (BC, Canada), when you take the money away from coders in one place they will just pick up and move somewhere else where there is money.
So close to Canada... hmmm. Perhaps you have never been here. We aren't dumb and arrogant enough to "attempt" to control things that are not our business to control (ie. the Internet, Microsoft, etc.). That would be another country. It always amazes me that we are friendly and helpful to our neighbours to what the rest of the world would call a fault, and yet there is always some bone head attempting to say that we are to blame for their woes.
Slashdot Mirror
sure ... ok ... machine/no machine ... whatever that WAS my point.
... I had more to say but nm it'll just get lost in some pointless detail.
LOL
The folding thing only works in theory. Paper has yet to be folded more than 7 (could be 8?) times with out a machine. If you don't believe me just try it yourself.
Besides I'm pretty sure you and everyone else in this forum understood what he meant =)
Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with you about the "strategy" of developing the next gen system while the current system is still selling well. The Play Station was selling well for a few years before the PS One (which is essentially the same thing). Even then you should realize that the moment a designer/coder/etc. is done building a thing he/she needs to start working on something new. They don't suddenly start working on something a couple of months before release. It takes AT LEAST 5 experienced coders and perhaps as many as 10 more graphic/sound/support staff a full year of very hard work to make a game, let alone how long in "skilled" machine/man/hours it takes to build the console it's played upon. The Dreamcast died because SEGA did not want to continue fighting with the big boys over and over again for how little money they were pulling in from hardware. It was on all of the news boards for quite a while. They had decided to switch their focus to software again (which is what they are good at). Sony keeps coming out on top because they do not restrict the developer (like Nintendo did with the 64) and they even go so far as to provide them useful tools. Besides all of that we should all be glad Sony starts talking about it now so that we, as consumers, can take part in the process of making the next gen more in line with what we would like to see as well.
While your examples seem weak to me, because they are all things that we agreed to allow our gov't to handle on behalf of us and your interesting perspective on my personality feels irrelevant to me. I do agree in principal that my wording is a bit harsh. So to that end I apologize to you and all other Canadians/Americans alike if I insulted your sensibilities.
I am perhaps alone in my quest for Canadian pride. The endless stream of American jokes at our expense is getting to me. Especially when we so often seem to be helping them with their problems and shortages due to mismanagement by their gov't.
I realize that our gov't is FAR from utopian, but most of the places where I disagree with their policies is in regards to how often we bend over for US business interests with absolutely no concern for our own.
Again I appologize for upsetting you and/or anyone else.
This is an ill-fated line of taxation AGAIN! I am a coder and I can tell you that this is not going to help me one bit. It will help the publishers, that put my hard work to media and resell it for 20X+ what I get paid for it, make more money. Instead of these greedy buggers figuring out better ways to protect my code and thus employing more of my ilk, they scream and yell that they are being ripped off until they get money from the gov't. This is AFTER they have already "reluctantly" raised their prices to "compensate" for the same. Yet I somehow doubt that I will see a raise in my income due to this.
This is just another case of our gov't giving into the demands of a bunch of businesses that can't balance their budgets, because they are too busy golfing. This is as a result of "blackmail" by the few publisher's we still have left here to take the services somewhere else unless we pay them more. Let's call this what it is: "The Keep Them Here Tax".
The Brain is recordable media, are we going to tax that too?
There is another topic developing in Washington that is the same veiled attempt of people who don't understand something attempting suck money that isn't there out of it. One day all the coders in the world are going to live in a small caribean island with no extradiction treaty with the US or Canada and then where will these 2 short sited countries be?
ARRRRGGGHH!!! Hasn't ANYONE ever heard of an honest days work anymore? Is it everyone's goal to make money off of someone else's time and energy? To the governments of the world I say: "Get your bloody hands out of my pockets!!! There isn't anything there anymore! I just submitted income tax!!!"
Lol! So does that also mean that we will be taxed on our brains? I know my brain isn't the most reliable storage medium, but it is semi-functional.
... and hey when I go for walks I'm usually thinking about a coding problem. So do I get taxed twice? =)
I'm not sure if this point has been made already (not in the mood for sifting today), but taxes are not supposed to be a profit sharing cut for the gov't. They are ONLY to alleviate the cost incurred by the gov't in question to help support the creation and deployment of a company's service/product. Some where further down someone mentions Coca-Cola and their case, but it is completely different with the creation of software. Software does not impact the environment at all where it is created. Nor does incur costs to anyone other than developer (or sponsoring publisher). Not even the machines it is created upon, as these have already been taxed for their creation. The gov't is going after software because they think we make too much money. When you say my brain is worth $75/hr it's not just that hour your buying it's all of the hours of sifting through endless amounts of information on new/old techniques, technologies, and costings.
There is no reasonable reason why software "manufacturing" (coding) should be taxed as it makes no impact on anything other than the coder's brain. Not to mention that the whole argument is totally contrary to the logic of a "tax break" for R&D. I think further down someone mentions this already.
Another point is that there is no way to establish how much the code was worth to produce unless you tax based on the time it took to create it, special licenses required (use of logos, SDK's, and other copyright material), and the hardware it was developed on (which is reusable across multiple projects). All of these things have already been taxed, including the time it took to create it (in the form of income tax AND the "employer's burden" for same). Also if the intention is to tax time then what is to stop the developer from saying it only took 10 hours to bang out said code instead of the 10,000 hours a year long project with 5 coders takes (conservative estimate).
None of this even takes into account the Internet, where you can make money in a round about way from making a cool app (like slashdot) that people can use for free via advertising and such. Then what do you tax? The whole infrastructure down to the server? They all had a part in making this engine function and thus creating any income derived from it. Then the gov't will need a "special task force" that is comprised of "experts" to make assessments of the value of the software systems that have been created, which of course costs more money and who's going to pay for that?
Ok, one last point. How do you tax an idea? Some would say that your entire life experience helps to shape your view of the world and thus create your moments of enlightenment or bursts of inspiration. So do you tax the coders entire life every time he concieves a new line of code? Of course not, but how could you draw the line. Any argument you can use to say Intellectual Property can be taxed by , I could use to argue an unlimited and completely arbitrary system of taxation for the same that would sound ridiculous even to the most ignorant "ludite".
Never mind that!! The whole concept of taxing people for developing software as a "manufacturing" tax is just another MORONIC attempt to gain an upper hand on people the gov't can't seem to grasp. Which is self defeating because, as we see in my province (BC, Canada), when you take the money away from coders in one place they will just pick up and move somewhere else where there is money.
I appreciate your help in making my point for me. Thanks =)
Then perhaps you can get your own lumber, power, and water. Let alone fish.
So close to Canada ... hmmm. Perhaps you have never been here. We aren't dumb and arrogant enough to "attempt" to control things that are not our business to control (ie. the Internet, Microsoft, etc.). That would be another country. It always amazes me that we are friendly and helpful to our neighbours to what the rest of the world would call a fault, and yet there is always some bone head attempting to say that we are to blame for their woes.