I don't believe so -- from a "they're the ones publishing it" standpoint, they have the same responsibility that they would serving files that they didn't write. Also, having a license to or even owning copyright to (assuming you can legitimately copyright libelous material -- not sure about that) certainly isn't illegal.
The first mouse I saw having a wheel was a Genius mouse (Easyscroll), with pratically no support (CoreyFromailed me that the first scroll mouse was actually a mouse systems "3d mouse"). One year afterwards, Microsoft popularised the concept with its Intellimouse, trying as usual to use if for unfair competition (it only worked with MS apps), but other manufacturers soon followed, with products working with all windows apps, such as the logitech ones.
I'd like to start out by saying that I also find this block disgusting and awful as well. But just to get things absolutely straight:
Blocking sites make it impossible for Pennsylvania enforcement officers to find child porn traders in their own state, pushing them farther underground!
Meh. There's a long tradition of trying to attack social behavior deemed unacceptable by direclty supressing the behavior. You'd have to change a *lot* of things if you didn't want to take this approach.
Misuse of secret web censorship lists is well documented. It is possible to disclose information about where these sites are without making an open advertisement. Their argument is illogical.
Yeah, though it's pretty easy to just hand this to the few Penn backbone ISPs.
Their action may be unconsitutional and certainly may be moot should a Freedom Of Information Act request be made by someone with the list published anywhere on the net
Does FOIA apply to state as well as federal documents? (I don't have any idea)
It is not possible for people to use the net to identify Pennsylvania's definition of child porn should the medium itself be censored.
The textual definition would not be censored.
There is no information about whether they are making efforts to identify whether underage models are actually being used.
Good point.
I am thinking about the comics sold in every convenience store in Japan that have drawings which could be construed as child porn, and use of the term "Lolita" for young-looking models. I don't want to see these myself, however what happens to people who have gotten used to this kind of titillation and when the virtual source of imagery dries up will they not be led to look for actual child porn and exploitative venues in the real world?
Mmm...I dunno if your conclusion is that likely, but I agree that this kind of ruling is definitely going to impact a lot of people.
Likewise would this cover sites which distribute dirty stories? There must be at least one nasty child porn fantasy in there. An easy way to ban these sites, just have some fundamentalist submit a bunch of illegal stories and sue them?
Again, good point.
Many fibers undoubtedly run through Pennsylvania, are they going to be censoring all packets at all switches? This is a neat way to start killing the Internet, let's drop every spamming country off the net.. not.
I don't see why. It'd be pretty easy to just filter stuff entering Penn ISPs.
There is no information (I presume) about how to find out if your site is banned in Pennsylvania, say what if a hacker started serving child porn from your 0wned box, and there is no information about how to reinstate an IP address.
Very good point.
Since the point is in fact removing dangerous and illegal information from the net, in particular the underlying reason should be to protect children from dangerous exploitation, it is in society's best interest to openly maintain a database of sites accused of child pornography, which states and municipalities may use to implement censorship should they so choose.
Again, I agree. This censorship is voluntary, by *Pennsylvania*. Presumably, anything on the list blocked. Except for savvy users using proxies to bounce around the blocks, the only people this list will help find underage porn are people in other states.
(Of course there could indeed be a list of overseas sites which have not been taken down due to different local ordinances)
I'm sure that's what's being talked about.
Pennsylvania's action is also a restraint on interstate commerce
If someone is showing porn involving a minor, he'll be prosecuted. Failing that, he'll be blocked. And you dont need a list of URLs. It doesnt matter. You dont get a list of addresses where the sick pedophiles snail mail it from either.
It's a crime to make, possess, or facilitate it. And it should be.
Interesting to see that you feel that the morality of pornography changes completely upon the subject's eighteenth birthday.
are you wasting everyones time with this lawsuit? You do know that if SCO played nice and put itself in a position to be bought out it's quite possible someone would buy you out.
Now, now. Let's give SCO some credit. They *can't* be so stupid as to think that someone would consider them worth buying.
Why would anyone want to pay $35 million for a bunch of essentially useless code and a trademark on an operating system that is rapidly losing relevance?
I mean, at $100K/developer/year (which is pretty liberal pay), that's a good 350 man-years of work on open-source software that could be done that would essentially go down the drain.
SCO isn't worth it. SCO stock isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Here it is. Microsoft agrees to hire their remaining execs in exchange for SCO acting so nastily that Microsoft is no longer #1 on everyone's hit list.
Seriously, when was the last time that *every* post on an interview was outraged or disgusted? Even Microsoft doesn't manage to build up that much animosity.
I knew this was going to get bitter -- SCO folks acting like jerks trying to dig a little money out of IBM, lawsuits, major folks pissed off -- but when the first comment is a +5 Perens flame, this is definitely going to be a rocky interview.
So if I wanted to volunteer to run/maintain a site for an opensource project--is there a clearinghouse for this sort of thing?
Not that I've heard of, but you probably have a piece of software that you like that has an out-of-date web page, or a web page that the developer maintains (and doesn't want to). Just drop a note to the developer of a project, and see what he thinks.
I at least would like to do work on a project that I also like using. If you really don't care what you're working on, rxvt is an excellent example of a good virtual terminal program (probably the fastest one out there) that's under active development that has a totally unmaintained web site. And there are many more projects...
Also, having other people pitching in, be it to write docs, do a website, or anything like that, helps encourage the project developers.
There are a few exceptions. The kernel and X and a few other very mature, very widely-used and critically-important projects move at a slower pace and frequently have tough standards. I suspect glibc and perhaps gcc probably have tough requirements for patches.
context sensitive help with examples coded in multiple languages.
But so does man, which comes with cygwin.
Intellisense that integrates user code documentation.
Doxygen.
Template creation to limit junior programmer usage of pretty/useless widgets
Dunno exactly what this is.
Good macro support
Hehe. Yup, I think emacs could manage this.
Integrated web load testing tools
Why would you bundle web load testing tools into an IDE, and what's the benefit over using an external program?
Integrated Active Directory support
What does it let you do...you aren't managing a network from VS.NET...
Integrated database support
What's the benefit over having a db client built into the IDE over just running an external, like psql?
Integrated debugger
ddd
Forms designer for the gui guys (I ain't one)
Okay, fair enough. I can see how tying a RAD UI tool to the IDE might be convenient.
Class/object browser
There are a *ton* of these for UNIX, for C++ and Java at least. Dunno about.NET.
See, that's what I don't get. The integrated forms designer might be nice, but most of the things that people like VS for don't seem to be anything special. And it costs enough money to get much nicer hardware instead...
No, there were multiple wheel mouse vendors that predated them. MS was the first one to popularize the wheel mouse, and to get it working well with lots of apps.
Yup. You are relatively rational and educated. Unfortunately, the bulk of Americans are not.
So we get people refusing to fly on airplanes, or people accepting the Patriot Act.
I'd like to know how many deaths would have been prevented if the billions and billions of dollars allocated to the Office of Homeland Security had been spent on encouraging people to wear seatbelts.
The United States doesn't *want* stability in the Middle East. Divisiveness is what prevents OPEC from presenting a united face to the United States. The United States wants to play factions off against each other, while maintaing a foothold by keeping puppet governments in place. Just like we did in Vietnam, just like we're doing in Afghanistan.
Well...he *was* elected at one point, but that isn't really the issue. The point is that Hitler came to power via the same methods that could be used in the United States. Backroom deals go on here. Public distrust of Arabs/Muslims is *amazing* -- not at university and maybe not on Slashdot, but I spent some time in West Virginia last week...scary.
Slashdot Mirror
I wonder if Microsoft has any programmers in New Zealand that have ever written source code and transferred it over Xtra's lines.
:-)
If so, can I buy Windows licenses from the *other* Windows copyright holder?
(Probably not -- I'd bet that MS has a strict code-does-not-leave-company policy.)
And it could even backfire
I don't believe so -- from a "they're the ones publishing it" standpoint, they have the same responsibility that they would serving files that they didn't write. Also, having a license to or even owning copyright to (assuming you can legitimately copyright libelous material -- not sure about that) certainly isn't illegal.
Are you sure?
Yup, MS did not invent the scroll wheel. Here's a quote from the X scroll wheel mouse page.
The first mouse I saw having a wheel was a Genius mouse (Easyscroll), with pratically no support (CoreyFromailed me that the first scroll mouse was actually a mouse systems "3d mouse"). One year afterwards, Microsoft popularised the concept with its Intellimouse, trying as usual to use if for unfair competition (it only worked with MS apps), but other manufacturers soon followed, with products working with all windows apps, such as the logitech ones.
I believe the original poster was pointing out some of the flaws in our current underage porn laws.
Oh, this one's a sweet one. Pleeeeease mod parent up, moderators.
I'd like to start out by saying that I also find this block disgusting and awful as well. But just to get things absolutely straight:
Blocking sites make it impossible for Pennsylvania enforcement officers to find child porn traders in their own state, pushing them farther underground!
Meh. There's a long tradition of trying to attack social behavior deemed unacceptable by direclty supressing the behavior. You'd have to change a *lot* of things if you didn't want to take this approach.
Misuse of secret web censorship lists is well documented. It is possible to disclose information about where these sites are without making an open advertisement. Their argument is illogical.
Yeah, though it's pretty easy to just hand this to the few Penn backbone ISPs.
Their action may be unconsitutional and certainly may be moot should a Freedom Of Information Act request be made by someone with the list published anywhere on the net
Does FOIA apply to state as well as federal documents? (I don't have any idea)
It is not possible for people to use the net to identify Pennsylvania's definition of child porn should the medium itself be censored.
The textual definition would not be censored.
There is no information about whether they are making efforts to identify whether underage models are actually being used.
Good point.
I am thinking about the comics sold in every convenience store in Japan that have drawings which could be construed as child porn, and use of the term "Lolita" for young-looking models. I don't want to see these myself, however what happens to people who have gotten used to this kind of titillation and when the virtual source of imagery dries up will they not be led to look for actual child porn and exploitative venues in the real world?
Mmm...I dunno if your conclusion is that likely, but I agree that this kind of ruling is definitely going to impact a lot of people.
Likewise would this cover sites which distribute dirty stories? There must be at least one nasty child porn fantasy in there. An easy way to ban these sites, just have some fundamentalist submit a bunch of illegal stories and sue them?
Again, good point.
Many fibers undoubtedly run through Pennsylvania, are they going to be censoring all packets at all switches? This is a neat way to start killing the Internet, let's drop every spamming country off the net.. not.
I don't see why. It'd be pretty easy to just filter stuff entering Penn ISPs.
There is no information (I presume) about how to find out if your site is banned in Pennsylvania, say what if a hacker started serving child porn from your 0wned box, and there is no information about how to reinstate an IP address.
Very good point.
Since the point is in fact removing dangerous and illegal information from the net, in particular the underlying reason should be to protect children from dangerous exploitation, it is in society's best interest to openly maintain a database of sites accused of child pornography, which states and municipalities may use to implement censorship should they so choose.
Again, I agree. This censorship is voluntary, by *Pennsylvania*. Presumably, anything on the list blocked. Except for savvy users using proxies to bounce around the blocks, the only people this list will help find underage porn are people in other states.
(Of course there could indeed be a list of overseas sites which have not been taken down due to different local ordinances)
I'm sure that's what's being talked about.
Pennsylvania's action is also a restraint on interstate commerce
Wow. Excellent. Wouldn't have thought of that.
If someone is showing porn involving a minor, he'll be prosecuted. Failing that, he'll be blocked. And you dont need a list of URLs. It doesnt matter. You dont get a list of addresses where the sick pedophiles snail mail it from either.
It's a crime to make, possess, or facilitate it. And it should be.
Interesting to see that you feel that the morality of pornography changes completely upon the subject's eighteenth birthday.
are you wasting everyones time with this lawsuit? You do know that if SCO played nice and put itself in a position to be bought out it's quite possible someone would buy you out.
Now, now. Let's give SCO some credit. They *can't* be so stupid as to think that someone would consider them worth buying.
And what are you going to do when you wake up next to the girl that IBM sent over but you have no idea what her name is?
Furthermore, SCO, what contingency plans do you have if the girl is not, in fact, a girl?
SCO doesn't belong here *either*, but no one's bothered to knock off the upper echelon of management yet.
I think their business model is based around paying the CEO's brother-in-law lawyer to sue people.
5. Are there *any* engineers at your company, or was this decision made entirely by (a) execs getting a buyout bonus and (b) corporate consultants?
6. Does SCO differ at all from Dilbert's world, and if so, how?
Why would anyone want to pay $35 million for a bunch of essentially useless code and a trademark on an operating system that is rapidly losing relevance?
I mean, at $100K/developer/year (which is pretty liberal pay), that's a good 350 man-years of work on open-source software that could be done that would essentially go down the drain.
SCO isn't worth it. SCO stock isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Your just a nasty piece of flamebait.
Yes. Gore may have his failings, but comparing him to SCO is a low blow, even for Slashdot.
Do you think the publicity you will lose over this lawsuit in the linux/unix community is worth it?
Folks at SCO: do you ever intend to use computers again, and if so, how do you intend to avoid the crippling waves of DDoS attacks?
Here it is. Microsoft agrees to hire their remaining execs in exchange for SCO acting so nastily that Microsoft is no longer #1 on everyone's hit list.
Seriously, when was the last time that *every* post on an interview was outraged or disgusted? Even Microsoft doesn't manage to build up that much animosity.
I knew this was going to get bitter -- SCO folks acting like jerks trying to dig a little money out of IBM, lawsuits, major folks pissed off -- but when the first comment is a +5 Perens flame, this is definitely going to be a rocky interview.
So if I wanted to volunteer to run/maintain a site for an opensource project--is there a clearinghouse for this sort of thing?
Not that I've heard of, but you probably have a piece of software that you like that has an out-of-date web page, or a web page that the developer maintains (and doesn't want to). Just drop a note to the developer of a project, and see what he thinks.
I at least would like to do work on a project that I also like using. If you really don't care what you're working on, rxvt is an excellent example of a good virtual terminal program (probably the fastest one out there) that's under active development that has a totally unmaintained web site. And there are many more projects...
Also, having other people pitching in, be it to write docs, do a website, or anything like that, helps encourage the project developers.
There are a few exceptions. The kernel and X and a few other very mature, very widely-used and critically-important projects move at a slower pace and frequently have tough standards. I suspect glibc and perhaps gcc probably have tough requirements for patches.
It just seems that most of these have parallels.
.NET.
context sensitive help with examples coded in multiple languages.
But so does man, which comes with cygwin.
Intellisense that integrates user code documentation.
Doxygen.
Template creation to limit junior programmer usage of pretty/useless widgets
Dunno exactly what this is.
Good macro support
Hehe. Yup, I think emacs could manage this.
Integrated web load testing tools
Why would you bundle web load testing tools into an IDE, and what's the benefit over using an external program?
Integrated Active Directory support
What does it let you do...you aren't managing a network from VS.NET...
Integrated database support
What's the benefit over having a db client built into the IDE over just running an external, like psql?
Integrated debugger
ddd
Forms designer for the gui guys (I ain't one)
Okay, fair enough. I can see how tying a RAD UI tool to the IDE might be convenient.
Class/object browser
There are a *ton* of these for UNIX, for C++ and Java at least. Dunno about
See, that's what I don't get. The integrated forms designer might be nice, but most of the things that people like VS for don't seem to be anything special. And it costs enough money to get much nicer hardware instead...
No, there were multiple wheel mouse vendors that predated them. MS was the first one to popularize the wheel mouse, and to get it working well with lots of apps.
Yup. You are relatively rational and educated. Unfortunately, the bulk of Americans are not.
So we get people refusing to fly on airplanes, or people accepting the Patriot Act.
I'd like to know how many deaths would have been prevented if the billions and billions of dollars allocated to the Office of Homeland Security had been spent on encouraging people to wear seatbelts.
I suspect a lot more than from any terrorist act.
The United States doesn't *want* stability in the Middle East. Divisiveness is what prevents OPEC from presenting a united face to the United States. The United States wants to play factions off against each other, while maintaing a foothold by keeping puppet governments in place. Just like we did in Vietnam, just like we're doing in Afghanistan.
Well...he *was* elected at one point, but that isn't really the issue. The point is that Hitler came to power via the same methods that could be used in the United States. Backroom deals go on here. Public distrust of Arabs/Muslims is *amazing* -- not at university and maybe not on Slashdot, but I spent some time in West Virginia last week...scary.
I just thought that a lawyer calling a crowd of security engineers Luddites was kind of funny.