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Pennsylvania Refuses to Disclose Banned Website List
koehn writes "In an interesting turn of events, the Attorney General of Pennsylvania has ordered all PA ISPs to block sites that have child porn. If that's not bad enough, they won't tell you which sites those are because - so the excuse goes - that could be construed as 'disseminating pornography.' So much for public review, huh?" See the previous story.
/me marks one more state to not move to.
http://wsulug.org
the Attorney General of Pennsylvania has ordered all PA ISPs to block sites that have child porn. If that's not bad enough...
Waa... Hunh... I had to read this a few times to realize it's not supposed be a joke.
Bad enough for who?
Here
But what about this?
Oh BTW, Pajonet's Hot or Not News Site has been totally redone
You'd think they could just publish the list on the net, so every s. kiddie could try to take it down with their mad skills...
/. - I bet the sites would never be back up.
Alternately, just publish the list on
-Maher-
if they told residents, that'd just make people want to go to sites just so they could say "ha-ha-ha, look at me, i got around the law!!! w00t?". maybe by proxy or just traveling outside of the state...but by not telling the people, they can only find out what's blocked by actually looking for child pornography - how low is that? the majority of people would simply not bother with the whole thing and continue their lives.
It seems likely to me that they simply don't have a list, and they want to make it the ISP's problems. The best law enforcement agencies in the country can't stop kiddy-porn rings, so let's see if overworked sysadmins can! If it fails, at least we'll be able to pass the blame...
I think ISPs should simply declare that, to the best of their knowledge, there is no kiddy porn on the web, and only block things if they get complaints (then report the complainant as having viewed kiddy-porn.)
Sig:Why copyright isn't a fundamental human right
blame it on bush.
You are a nerd, right ?
Does that mean you know more than the rest ? Think so...??
Check your facts cause this means that you haven't read this on Sean-Pauls Bulletinboard:
What they don't want you to know !!
(Read the link on Project for the New American Century)
If all of these sites actually contain child porn why not focus all efforts on getting them shut down completely .. having a few ISP's block these websites accomplishes nothing ..
Under current regulations they can't do this. There isn't really any harm done either as long as when sites on this list can't be reached a page is returned to the user saying the site has been blocked because it's on this list. That way if a legitimate site is blocked, everyone will know why and be able to appeal its inclusion on the list. Seems fine to me.
Yes, the problem with an open society is having to deal with things you may not like. I can trust them to use this list honestly (I don't think they'd blacklist a site that doesn't qualify as child porn), but if we're pretending to be an open society, we ought to act like it.
Fact is, people who look at child porn already have their hookup, they don't need a list to figure out where to go. (ie, USENET)
Open up the damn list so the paranoid people can judge for themselves, and so we're not hypocritical when we pretend that we're better than police states like China in this regard.
The CDT report - entitled "The Pennsylvania ISP Liability Law: An Unconstitutional Prior Restraint and a Threat to the Stability of the Internet" - analyzes a 2002 Pennsylvania law that forces ISPs to block access to any web site deemed "child pornography" without notice to the site's publisher and without any opportunity to challenge the determination. ISPs are required to block the sites even if they do not host the content and have no relationship whatsoever with the publishers of the content. The Pennsylvania Attorney General has since gone even further, bypassing the law's inadequate court procedures to simply demand by letter that sites be blocked.
CDT.org
More News
Fisher has so far instructed Internet providers with customers in the state to block subscribers from at least 423 Web sites around the world.
First, I find it hard to believe that there are only 423 web sites that offer kiddie porn, based soley on the amount of spam I get advertizing it. And in what way is this list updated? Porn sites move around constantly, and use any number of tricks to fool browsers (fake.site.com@real.site.com tricks, IP addresses instead of host names, etc.) so I think this list must be changing every few minutes. Do they reall y have someone sitting and watching as the porn sites get a new IP address?
I'm not saying anything for or against the block itself, I'm just saying this must be one hell of a headache to manange.
...if you don't get to look at the list, how do you know it's not being abused? How do you know that they are all child porn sites, and not, for example, pro-choice advocate sites, or whatever the reviewer decides is against his personal beliefs?
If I was in charge of the list, and I knew that it would never be seen by anyone but me and my cronies, then I've got a really big stick to wave around the heads of those people I don't agree with. Child porn is bad, but the potential to lose some bit of freedom is worse. Eventually those kids grow up and either adjust or they don't, but lost freedoms are usually gone forever and they affect everybody in the country. There is no bigger superpower than us that can come and bail us out if our govt becomes a totolitarian regime, so we have to defend our liberty at all cost while we have the chance.
I don't like the implications this will have for the future. If the government decides to censor some websites, what's to stop them from restricting access to others?
Why do laws like this, which are completely impossible to force and redundant (possession of child porn is ALREADY illegal, why force ISPs to filter it?) manage to get passed?
Because who the hell expects to get any votes after voting against a child-porn law?
They only get away with stupid laws like this because most people don't look past the title, so we get things like "The Patriot Act"...
Uhm, they already have...
So how exactly does the state tell the ISPs which sites to block without such 'disseminiation'?
Sounds like he's just passing the buck. Last time I checked it was the legal system's job to enforce laws -- not some private company that provides internet access. Not that this exactly qualifies as law enforcement since the sites are still out there -- they're just kinda-sorta-maybe blocked in PA (motto: "Yet Another Hillbilly State").
Were all the internet child porn cases coming through his court cutting into his golf time? Did someone forget to give him the memo that would have clued him in to the fact that a lot of this shit is hosted by the russian mafia and isn't exactly a stationary target because (suprise!) even people on the internet hate kiddie porn?
Spam suits seek poetic justice
You lived in the "capitol"? Funny, I thought they'd only have office space in that building...
...and it's not a good one. It's the same reason most school systems who do their own in-house filtering through stuff like BorderAlert and such. Given the percentage of the internet that is pornography, a large percentage of blocked sites are blocked for political reasons. At my old high school, they blocked socialistworker.org and other "seditious" websites.
It took some checking to see what sites were blocked, and much question asking and nosing around before they were unblocked. Apparently, some people in the school system decided on their own to block sites.
I think there could be something similar here. They may be wanting to prohibit access to non-porn political sites that don't support the war, or are Anti-Penn (I myself think that state sucks ass for a variety of reasons).
While I myself do not like sites like socialistworker.org (see my journal for explanation), I'd like to see the rights of others protected, and this is yet another excuse to hide government activity against freedom of speech.
Only in slashdot are posts of solidarity modded at -1 Redundant, while posts of antagonism are modded as -1 Flamebait.
If that's not bad enough
Yeah that's awful.
How are linux users in PA going to get their "FIX".
Fucking idiots. Someone tries to crack down on child porn and all you see is "YeR rIteZ OnLYNE"
Gawd.. Hold a dying baby in front of your faces and you'd see a mirror.. So goddamn self-absorbed.
If someone is showing porn involving a minor, he'll be prosecuted. Failing that, he'll be blocked. And you dont need a list of URLs. It doesnt matter. You dont get a list of addresses where the sick pedophiles snail mail it from either.
It's a crime to make, possess, or facilitate it. And it should be.
All you idealistic high school nerds-in-training: pick your battles. You dont want to side with pedophiles and NAMBLA, trust me.
Have you been cleaning them properly? Sometimes sweat accumulates in the folds, which can lead to an itchy fungal growth. I recommend scrubbing the hell out of them... get some liquid soap and one of those lace-like scrubby things and just go to town.
If it's severe, you can always swab your balls with rubbing alcohol. That'll kill the fungus, but it'll burn like a motherfucker, plus after you do it a couple times you'll notice some peeling, so you'll probably want to have some lotion handy.
HTH
I am just curious. I keep hearing this argument made over and over-- the "what if the site is in a country where child porn is legal" argument, i mean. I can't think of any countries where such *IS* legal though.
Which countries do you refer to, anyway? Are there any, or is this just a straw man?
I think the point might be to keep it from people who want this stuff or who might be turned to this suff.
Says who? A bunch of libertarians? Come on. The ISP is in the perfect position to filter content on a regional basis. Yes, this means state- or province-wide.
If it is efficient to block child porn at the ISP level then so be it. I don't care if information wants to be free, that stuff SHOULD be censored, and the people who make it should never see the light of day again.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Child porn is illegal everywhere I am aware of. Why block the websites when they can be taken down like they should be? That's like when your mother told you to clean your room and so you just shoved it all under the bed, didn't make your room clean and this wont make the internet better. A band-aid won't stop the bleeding.
if they don't tell you what sites are on it, how can they block them? Are they going to make everyone in the state use their DNS servers or something?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Pennsylvania rocks for many reasons. Don't take one
lame law and your experience with Harrisburg and
label my state a "shithole" you arrogant fuckwad.
Why don't you just go the whole pathetic route
and craft up a "Pennsylvania is dieing" troll while
you are at it. I've lived all over this country in
the past 20 years, and I always come back here at
some point for some very important reasons.
#1 I don't have to lock my fucking doors at night
because crime isn't an issue.
#2 The education opportunities here are
incredible
#3 There is a bubble of positive economy in many
areas that isn't effected much by the rest of
the country.
#4 The cost of living is low, but the quality of
living is outstanding.
#5 The cops aren't assholes.
#6 You don't have to pay a premium for good
service with a smile like you do just about
ANYWHERE else I've been. It's EXPECTED.
#7 Some of the best Italian food "in my area
anyway" in the US. Period.
#8 Excellent nightlife without a shitload of lame
scenesters trying to pretend they are in L.A.
#9 Perfect place to raise a family.
#10 It's own deep history and culture. America
started here moron.
So just because you were too lame to enjoy
yourself here in "Pennsyltucky" doesn't mean
anybody else wouldn't be able to see past your
bullshit and truly enjoy themselves in this small
piece of heaven. Just because NY and LA are the
only things you see on television doesn't mean
it's the only way to live you pompous twit.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
Wow, and that's where Thom Ridge is from. Not entirely surprising, just a bit surprising that the state takes this action publicly...can they do that?!
"I feel it is my duty to look at the porn that kids download before I delete it, to be sure what it is."--School Admin
I live in Mechanicsburg. While PA certainly has some bad points, it could be much worse. The entire Harrisburg area is growing. New houses are being built constantly, and property values just keep rising.
Did you honestly live here or are you trolling? You never learned to spell the name of the capital, nor the word capital itself?
If they fail to make the list open then some cracker will crack one of the covered ISP's and make the list public. Information wants to be free, and any information this widely distributed is bound to make it into the wild. Now I personally believe that hidden government is bad in general, but I put up with the CIA and NSA because they provide a service that is necessary and requires secrecy. Whether blocking sites alleged to contain kiddie porn is a compelling enough argument to put up with hidden government is debatable, but for me it is not.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
If Penn. won't give the ISPs a list of sites to block because of illegal dissemination, isn't it just as illegal for the ISPs to go searching for this stuff to determine what to block?
Ok, I find child porn disgusting and wrong as most people. It takes advantage of a child while their are most vournable and can scar them for life. But covering the public's eyes is not a way to stop the problem! Just because people who don't want to see it can't get to it doesn't mean it's not happening. Those who want to, will just find away around it. I think PA should invest the money that they are spending on this list and its enforcement on actually stoping the perpitrators of this crime.
It is a sad day for NAMBLA in Pennsylvania.
would be a great reason to live in Mechanicsburg.
It has to be one of my favorite bars in the world.
The G-man in Carlisle isn't too bad either.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
So if she weighs more than a duck...she's a witch, burn her!!!
Leaving aside any civil liberty issues, I just have one question:
If they're blocking all the sites on the blocklist, then how is it dangerous for people to get the blocklist? They won't be able to get to the sites!
virginia as the state to move to
thoughts, anyone?
Simply amazing
I'm quite sure PA is desperate to keep people there: Stay, Invent PA I'm from the Reading area; and yes -- PA is nothing to brag about. Lots of Amish, farmers, people who are clueless about technology, hicks, and those who graduate HS and work at gas stations for the rest of their lives.
May this post be indexed by spiders, and archived for all to see as my Internet epitaph.
The US Government ruled today that all ISPs null route 0.0.0.0/0 to prevent bad, naughty information from being accessed.
Come on you just wanted to get a look at the kiddy porn... I know I do, purely novelty. I have never seen any, and its one of those disgusting, evil things that humans are capable of therefore other humans who cannnot possibly imagine doing it, are interested in it (i.e. war, murder, rape, violence of any sort etc.)
Personally, I think the whole thing is bullshit. Fit this right in with the Patriot Act (I and soon II) as yet another thing that the Nazis running our country are doing to remove our civil liberties. No, it is not a right to exploit children in very imhumane ways, but yes it is a right to post, download/view, and be arrested for doing so. To me, this is somewhat like that movie Minority Report, where we now deter crime by arresting those that think about it... this is not too far from that. "Yes we'll will stop child porn by blocking all access to it."
For Christ's sake, go after the source, don't ignore it... does this remind anyone of the war on drugs? Finally, isn't it ironic (thanks Alanis) that this is happening in the former state of our esteemed Secretary of Homeland Terror (err security)?
-Xanadu
While I like freedom of speech, I can't think of WHY sites like www.rotten.com exists. No, I don't think they are worth a direct link.
Child pornography is a major problem, but the problem isn't solved by stupid legislation. Why do we needs laws punishing ISP's and not the child pornographers themselves?
Why don't we instead of making new dumb laws? Why don't we just trace the money these child pornography companies make and catch the real criminals?
Pushing the work over to the private sector so the government doesn't have to actually do detective work. Just seems stupid.
The public seems to have something of a love-hate relationship with child porn. On one hand, child porn in the classical sense is bad. On the other hand, child porn in the form of Britney and Christina is just fine? I remember reading an article on Britney before the music industry pimped her out. Cute kid. I just say LeAnn Rimes the other day on a Blender cover, topless. Even country music has gotten into it. Sigh... Maybe just another reason to hate the RIAA?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I'm wondering who came up with the list, and did they look at the pages when they comiled it? If so, shouldn't they be charged with viewing kiddie porn?
Even if the program were honest and verifiable, it would still be a bad idea. This essentially closes off sites that alow user posts, such as Slashdot. All you have to do to kill Slashdot in Pensylvania now is persistenlty place kiddie porn links into your posts. But it is not honest and it is not verifiable so the state could just block Slashdot as it pleases. If people noticed and complained that they can't find Slashdot anymore, the State can claim it was an honest mistake. The damage would have been done as the people would have been kept from knowledge in a timely manner. Other sites that few no about can be blocked with impunity.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It seems like this law tries to regulate interstate commerce. If the child porn site is in Nevada (nothing against Nevada, mind you) and Pennsylvania wants to block its citizens from accessing it, the transaction has to occur across state lines. Interstate commerce is the domain of Congress, not Pennsylvania. It would seem to me the only Constitutionally valid law Pennsylvania could pass would bar Pennsylvania citizens from accessing Pennsylvania child porn.
-jag
http://starboard.flowtheory.net/
The problem with this law is that an ISP cannot search web content for a given filename or even URL and block it based on that. ISPs don't look at anything beyond IP Layer 3. All they care about is routing IP packets. What happens if a large over-seas company hosts thousands of customers with a single IP address (or pool of addresses in the case of a webserver farm)? All it would take is one bad apple at that hosting ISP and Penn. would force Penn. ISP's to block all other content from that hosting ISP's webserver.
Should that ISP be hosting child porn? Of course not. Should all the other sites hosted at that ISP be blacklisted? No.
These lawmakers are either uneducated about how the internet works, or simply do not care and feel that blocking child porn is more important than the free speech of the other legit websites that may be hosted on an ISP's shared webserver farm.
Penn should enforce the law where they can: If the webservers are outside the arm of the US law, go after what isn't: those who download and view this content. They can start with their own state employees at work, which would violate no privacy laws. Folks seriously addicted to kiddie porn known no bounds. I've know of a case where a local county employee spent 2-3 hours a day at work surfing this stuff.
All this law is going to do is drive kiddie porn sites futher underground and make those in Penn be more sneaky. As someone else posted, Penn. law enforcement won't even be able to access these sites to verify if it has kiddie porn (say if they had a download history on a PC but no actual photos.)
If they know the addresses to all these domains, why don't they just forward all the domains to a goverment controlled server? last time I checked, the DNS servers call the shots.
Kiddie porn is illegal so they can find just cause. I know it's drastic, but damn, individual ISP's shouldn't be forced to filter access. Most ISP's are struggling just to keep afloat as is. people in PA will just get the nation-wide Long distance and dialup to NY or California for that matter.
THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
Reading, where Reading railroad on the monopoly board comes from. Reading is a great town. So is York, Lancaster, Lebanon, Mechaniscburg, Allentown, Shippensburg, State College, etc. You have one of the most famous war colleges in the world in Carlisle, along with the largest automobile shows in the world. You have the history of the railroad out of Enola. Make it a point to stop at the whistle stop cafe on 15. Gettysburg. Indian Echo Caverns. The whole amish countryside. One of the largest outlet shopping centers in the world near lancaster. Every major manufacturer is represented. Tons of theme parks. Huge stadium venues for bands all over the place. Perhaps the best college football team in the world. Pennsylvania seems to breed an inordinate number of professional racecar drivers, as well a rivalling texas for breeding first round draft picks and NFL superstars. I wish I grew up there every time I pass through on the way to the shitload known as new york. I think a lot of people are jealous because it's whole wholesome there. Perhaps some sour grapes. I fully intend to retire somewhere along the susquahanna river when I can afford the couple of million or so to buy one of the thousands of mansion sized homes there. There is a lot of very old money in pennsylvania. If you are the kind of person that loves to shop for antiques, there are some incredible finds all over the state. It's nice being able to stop along the road and pickup fresh produce that was picked that morning at one of the many roadside stands. It's neat being able to go to one of the few remaining drivein theatres left. I think pennsylvania has 5 of them. Hershey park is a blast, and Hershey chocolate is pretty neat also. Once I'm retired, I'll relax knowing that if I smash up my car, a life-lion life support helicopter can take me to hershey medical center at nearly 200 miles per hour. Hershey medical center is home to some of the best of the best, and a great medical school to boot. Maybe I'll send my kids to dickinson law. I was lucky enough once to catch the firewords over city island when I was in harrisburg for business over weekend during the 4th of july. It's definitely not a lifestyle for everyone. Plenty of bored kids leaving town because they grew up there and suppose things are better out in what they think is the "real world". A lot of them, much like the parent poster probably won't realize how good they had it until they inevitabely move back when they are old enough to understand what the good life is.
..but when is the government gonna put some real money into stopping the root cause of things like child abuse?
oh...there's an invasion on, we can't afford to have things like a social system, and the rich need their tax cuts..I'm sorry, i forgot, go back to whatever it was you were doing.
Lawyers for the civil liberties group said the technique undermines the Internet's global connectivity by regularly blocking Web surfers visiting harmless sites that may be located on the same server computers as sites with child pornography. They have compared the tactic to disrupting mail delivery to an entire apartment complex over one tenant's illegal actions.
I've heard that analogy before, but it seems lacking. Few people would care much about a "disruption" of snail mail. It's missing the first amemdment free press ring that it should have. Good analogies are hard to find.
This is more like confiscating printing machines or jamming the airwaves. Suppose someone decided to broadcast kiddie porn from some kind of pirate TV station. Would you block the legitimate station to get rid of the horrible one? No, you would find the person responsible for the broadcasts and shut them down. Suppose someone in a city started publishing kiddie porn on dead trees. Would you shut down the newspaper over it? No, you go after the publisher. Yet in Pennsylvania, any website that takes content from the public is subject to blocking.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It's going to be interesting when they try to prosecute somebody.
Prosecutor: This guy looked at child porn.
Defendant: It isn't child porn!
Judge: OK, let's show the jury this alleged porn.
Prosecutor: No, we can't do that! It's illegal for the jurors to look at child porn!
Judge: Well, then let me look at it.
Prosecutor: But, Your Honor, it's illegal for you to look at child porn, too!
Judge: Well, dammit, what if it's not porn?
Prosecutor: Well, then you could look at it. But you realize that if you deem it porn, we can charge you with having viewed it.
Judge: Well, then, I don't want to risk it. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you're just going to have to take his word for it.
[Jury deliberates.]
Jury: Not guilty due to lack of evidence.
Sunlit World Scheme. Weird and different.
Some one working at an ISP will leak the list and sooner or later you'll be able to download the list on Bearshare.
Aint that a bitch Mr. Attorney General.
http://yetanotherpoliticalrant.blogspot.com
Looking around on the net and watching what TV is handing out I'd say female deaths and disapearences are up 10% maybe 15% in the US over the last 6 weeks, ages 24-50. The war gets all the media, with a female face to push whose side we're all on, eh? A little switch and bait, a little money gets passed around now and a little later, and the blame goes to someone else. Been there done it a thousand times, some day somebody is going to catch you. Practical uses of psychology, Jesus.
Here to say One side or the other, neither for me.
No one here seems to realize that this could turn out to be a very good thing. As far as I know, there hasn't been a test case about whether a state can force an ISP to block content. If, as I suspect, this one goes all the way to the Supreme Court, it'll give every ISP (and state, for that matter) in the country a roadmap on how to handle these sorts of situations.
This is not necessarily a bad thing.
IAAL
i think your answer might be better answered with biology. there is a vast and great difference between child porn, the majority of which feature children and pre-teens, and teenage girls. biologically, teenage girls are sexually attractive. the 18==adult law is more of a responsability and experience assurance than anything else.
and growing up in Germany I moved to pennsylvania six years ago for a technical manager position with a company in state college. The mountains here are so beautiful. A lot of german people settled here a long time ago because a wonderful man named William Penn said that anybody could live on his land regardless of their religious beliefs. This was long before there was any such thing as the united states of anything. William Penn was very far ahead for his time, and Pennsylvania is as well. Stupid problems in buffalo with simple city management problems were solved here centuries ago. There are so many different ethnic backgrounds, but very little racism. So many social programs that actually work here. So many very nice people that it reminds me of my birth home. My parents came to visit a year ago and were amazed at home beautiful it was here and how kind the people are. For lunch I walk out the back door and down a tree lined path to a cafe and pay 3 dollars for a good sandwich and a beer. This is quite normal here. These people love german cars and I had little problems getting my right hand drive bavarian registered in this state. The local BMW dealership does excellent work. The women here are absolutely beautiful. Many cute college girls running around. Many fun places to dance and drink good beer. Everybody is always happy and in good spirits. I wish I hadn't wasted 8 years in buffalo.
In the morning I awake
I feel my bladder about to break
I scratch my balls I rub my eyes
Just feeling lousy
My girlfriend tells me that
It's time to take a bath
I say, "No, not today, it's only Tuesday"
Once every 24 hours
I'm supposed to take a shower
That's not the way I do it
Do it, do it
Personal hygiene is the last thing on my mind
I don't want to do it
Do it, do it
It doesn't make a difference to me
Everyday I do the same old thing
So why should I have to be clean?
Those dreaded Wednesdays and Saturdays
Also known as shower days
I hate them.
Electronic Frontiers Australia have been trying to get a list of sites from the authorities over here. While there isn't an all-encompassing list of sites that ISPs must block, there is a list of sites that have been reported to the authorities. If these sites are deemed sufficiently offensive by the same governmental body that issues classifications for movies, and the site falls under Australian jurisdiction, it will be issued a takedown notice.
So far the government has managed to weasel it's way out of complying with EFA's Freedom of Information requests, due to exemptions in the law. Whether the exemptions should protect the government in this case isn't an open and shut case though - in fact, the government is worried enough that they're currently pushing legislation that would explicitly put such information outside of the scope of the FOI Act.
The problem with keeping this information from the public is that there is no ability to properly review the process. Many in Australia are of the opinion that our content regulation regime is a farce.
More information at EFA
What's next? Are they going to take down the road signs to the towns "Blue Ball" and "Intercourse" PA so kids don't see them?
The last article was blocked by my school's filter!
nuff said
How the hell are ISPs supposed to be able to implement and deploy this blocking according to the official list if they are not given a copy of the list? And doesn't that law at least claim it applies to any ISP, even out of state, as long as it serves customers in Pennsylvania ... at least for the Pennsylvania customers? I'd like to know if the list consists of IP addresses, domain names, or complete URLs (or some mix of these).
If the list has IP addresses only, then it would be theoretically possible to deploy this in a router access list. But many routers don't scale well with large lists because of sequential implementation. And what if the web site in question changes IP address periodically? Does the IP address list get updated equally as often?
If the list has domain names, perhaps those can be remapped to IP addresses regularly, and put in the access list.
In either case, using IP addresses has "collateral damage" effects on other web sites sharing the same server, and maybe even other services if not deployed to specific ports (e.g. other connections like SMTP won't work). I'm sure that Mike Fisher, who is so full of himself that he tries to make people think he is the only attorney general around by registering attorneygeneral.com and attorneygeneral.gov, won't care (using the same theory spam fighters use that if the ISP hosts bad customers, then everyone should suffer until the ISP stops hosting them or goes out of business).
Or perhaps the list consists of URLs, including path names to specific site areas or user pages. The problem is most routers can't deal with that at all. You need a web proxy. That means ISPs now have to pay out more money to run web proxies, with all their associated problems, such as DNS lookup failures for users accessing web sites in different DNS realms (e.g. DNS name spaces NOT rooted at the normal ICANN root servers) or with add-on TLDs (e.g. pseudo-realms that take normal TLDs and combine with special TLDs like ... uh ... the ".xxx" and ".sex" TLDs). And what about accessing HTTPS sites via the proxy? The certificates won't match up unless the browser is configured to "trust" the proxy (e.g. accept the proxy's certificate for that half the end-to-end path, or just connect to the proxy unencrypted and ask for an HTTPS URL). If the ISPs don't filter on HTTPS, then the porn sites that are intended to be blocked can just make HTTPS work. OTOH, if the ISPs force proxying HTTPS, that becomes a major privacy violation.
So one way or the other, porn sites can evade the blocking. If blocked by IP address, they just move around ... maybe as often as every 5 minutes with very dynamic DNS or other very highly distributed methods. And if blocked by URL, they can use HTTPS to bypass proxies or force the ISPs to invade secure web privacy. And if blocked by domain name in the DNS server (using local authoritative zones) users can get around that by not using the ISP DNS servers, running their own DNS servers, or the porn site can register more domain names (they're cheap for porn operators).
And with tens of thousands of open proxies around the world (check today's load of spam for more addresses), there's going to be plenty of ways for perverts to get their fix once they learn these methods. Is the PA AG going to track all the open proxies out there, too?
But in either of these cases, there isn't much the ISP can do without the list. And I didn't see anything in the text of the law that says the list has to be held in strict confidence by the ISP (as if that would apply to an out of state ISP anyway).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
they are using facilities in the public domain. although, IANAL, and don't pretend to be one, this would be similar to using the phone lines to organize criminal activity. or, better, it is similar to radio or television broadcast frequencies.
if an isp laid (no pun intended) its own lines, and ran its own vpn or whatever, and had its own backbone, etc., than the issue is different. but, unless i am wrong, and that possibility does exist, most isp's are leasing lines and connect over a public backbone. thus, there is clearly a compelling interest that those lines not be used to disseminate child porn.
as for the slippery slope, this is pure nonsense. remove the word porn. just deal with the age factor. we are talking about sexually explicit photography of children UNDER 18. if you can't tell the difference between that and naked baby photos my wife takes of my kids, then i feel sorry for you.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I think that the general model for the internet should be more like the phone system. The phone company cannot be held responsible for anything you say over the phone or whom you call. I expect my ISP to be much the same. I give them packets, and they deliver them to the destination. It's not their job to know what's in the packets or where they're going.
This idea of forcing ISP's to block certain sites is just ridiculous. Somehow, it's just the wrong layer in the network stack. If you don't want people to look at porn, you either shut down the porn servers or install filters on the client. It should not be the ISP's job to watch what their clients are doing, much like it's not the phone company's job to keep track of what you say over the phone, so long as you pay the bill.
And they're forgetting one small thing with their secret list: They have to at least give it to the ISP's, and I'm sure that there are a number of ISP's in Pennsylvania who would be more than happy to share this list with the rest of the world.
Johnsonville brats and lebanon balogna.
Cookouts growing up in PA are something I miss and I try to make it back for the fourth of july every year. Even if you didn't grow up german, almost everybody does brats, sourkraut, and lot of other german stuff that's awesome on a grill. Cookouts and beer all summer long is what I remember from growing up in PA. Funnel cakes at hershey park. All the bitchin fieldtrips in school. When you have tons of history all around you, it's pretty easy to pile on a yellow bus and drive an hour to see it. Riding innertubes down hundreds of local rivers all summer long smoking pot and drinking beer. I miss the girls in PA something fierce. Lots of really hot looking girls in cut off jeans and bikini tops without the attitude problems I've come to expect here in dallas. The shitty thing is it's very hard to score a tech job in PA. The competition is very fierce and the jobs scarce. I've been trying to get off the "third coast" for 3 years now and get back home. I have my parents ship me lebanon balogna because I can't live without the stuff. If you ever try it, you'd understand.
Does this law affect only those ISPs which are based in Pennsylvania, or ISPs that operate in Pennsylvania, or that have a Point Of Presence in Pennsylvania?
What about a national DSL ISP that doesn't have a POP in Pennsylvania, but instead backhauls all their Pennsylvania customers over the phone company's ATM cloud to a POP in a neighboring state? It could be argued that the customer is not technically connected to the Internet in Pennsylvania.
In order to block specific URLs (rather than IP addresses), PA ISPs would be required to redirect port 80 through a transparent proxy server. This can potentially cause problems (although it's not a problem for most people). If the law does not apply to ISPs that are not based in Pennsylvania, could non-local ISPs to advertise that they don't redirect, block or monitor traffic, possibly giving them a competitive advantage over local PA ISPs?
Of course I'm all for getting rid of child porn, but this doesn't sound like the way to do it.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Who exactly maintains the list? Can a site be removed from the list if it stops hosting the objectionable content? How would the PA Attorney General's office be able to check the site to verify this, if every ISP in the state blocks access to it?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Web Sites like sarsscam.com (do a google search) are shut down that reveil information that possibly Gov or someone secret group or whatever do not want people to view .. All I know is I can't load the web page
HOw does this relate. its a Evil way they can cover up items they do not want the world to see. ahh well its child porn. Gov have done this before with certain people claiming they are racists or something that has nothing to do with them..
sites to check out http://www.thepowerhour.com
But PA guys are the best. I've been stuck in cali for 4 years now surrounded by the most amazingly boring conceited men imaginable. The biggest difference is that guys that are built here go to a gym and work out so they can "look good" and "score with the ladies" but guys from PA that are built look that way because they actually play sports. I was lucky because last year a really good looking guy from PA started working down the hall, and I got his ring on my finger. ;P You can keep your boring stuck up west coast guys. I'll stick with my sweet, hot, well built, big dicked PA guy any day of the week.
This is way offtopic but this whole thread is.
Me and a few other girls in my dorm were just talking about this same thing short time ago. I'm at a very northern very irish college. There are 4 different guys that are like, the hottest guys that all play football, are very well built, and VERY well built where it counts, and they are all from pennsylvania. We know at least two of them are on full athletic scholarship. We joke about how it has to be something in the water and how we need to dump our boyfriends and transfer there!
Does anyone have a link of a site banned by PA, that is non deserving?
God spoke to me
However when a site has already been removed from the internet then its details should be made public. This would allow some review of what the government is doing. However if the site cannot be removed as it only breaks American Laws then there is not justifiable reason for keeping the blocking information secret.
nich
37 - what does it stand for really...
South Phili has a *cough* charm all it's own. But
you have areas like king of prussia and shwenksville
and especially mana yunk sp? that absolutely rock.
On a side note, a lot of people would be amazed if
they knew how many movies are filmed each year in
Harrisburg. They thought they were looking at
detroit or chicago or DC, but they weren't. A lot
of movies that require maasive trainyard shots, or
D.C. looking architecture are filmed there. Kinda
sucks for traffic in the summer though.
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
The ISPs are obliged to block the sites, so no-one can view them, even if they had the list. Mind you, seeing www.ashcroftsucks.org on the list might raise suspicions
"Seriously for anyone who hasn't lived in PA this should be marked +5 Informative"
How about +5 stupid shit?
Steelers
Eagles
and Skins spring training in Carlisle.
Penn fucking STATE FOOTBALL
Not everyone has dickless geek priorities for where they live. Go set up a beowulf cluster of dildoes to ride on you big pussy.
but it's all about the terrible towel!
BTW, Jan LaRue, [senior director of legal studies at the Family Research Council] You can suck my dick you sanctimonious cow. Is it true that Kevin Hanley, is the buttboy for Attorney General Mike Fisher?
Or maybe the music industry is selling what people want but are ashamed to admit they want. Heck, it wouldn't be the first time.
I think people over-react to child porn. Just look at the replies in this topic. Everybody seems to have to put "I don't like kiddie-porn but..." in every message. It's almost like "I'm not a communist but..." Does anybody really think that someone who doesn't include that disclaimer goes out and rapes kids?
Exploitation of anybody, including children is bad. No question. I fully support going after anybody who makes, sells or buys child porn, but I'm not 100% sold on going after people who possess it. If it is simply found "in their possession", which could possibly even mean that it showed up in their browser cache. Should you be in trouble because you mistype a URL and get one of the many porn typo sites?
Maybe intentionally seeking out child porn online should be illegal, but the penalty should reflect the crime. Someone who doesn't buy, sell, or make kiddie porn hasn't hurt any kids. Now the the argument is of course that viewing child porn leads to other crimes against kids. But isn't that the kind of thing that Slashdotters hate when it comes to other things? Just because someone loves playing violent video games and perhaps even makes a level that reflects their school or office doesn't necessarily mean they're going to go shooting up their school or office. Perhaps the punishment for seeking out child porn should be giving up all their privacy in case they can't control their urges.
This isn't intended to be flamebait. I'm sure there's many a libertarian who would agree with me that any action that doesn't actually hurt somebody else shouldn't be illegal. If you're going to moderate it down because you don't like what I'm saying, consider posting a reply instead. And it's not offtopic, the topic is child-porn and law, isn't it?
If they are concerned about disseminating pr0n, they should just disclose their list of unblocked sites instead.
Why would you want to look at sites with child porn on. I is a block list what else you need to know. Anyway if it was public info someone would connect to some proxy and surf it anyway so you might havewell keep it a secret :)
before you go off on voicing your opinion for either way, realize that for every positive there is a negative to keep checks and balances in effect. Go on and try to prove relativity wrong - I dare you. =p
What you say is true. It's also no acccident. Child porn is to the Internet as Saddam Hussein is to the Middle East.
In the words of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, et al:
"While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein"
Remember: the actual goal is not necessarily the stated goal.
. . . there are extensive mechanisms to protect against abuses here.
1) Despite child pornography being outside the protected classes of speech, any mechanism capable of being arbitrarily extended beyond that scope will be subject to strict scrutiny under the First Amendment. It is a dead lock certainty that Pennsylvania's program would be shut down upon the first hint of abuse, and the first guy to get shut down therefor who isn't actually stepping over the line to criminal conduct will have a hell of a lawsuit.
2) This is what public records requests are for. It is probably impossible for him to withhold it -- and the newspapers have probably already made their formal demands. This is an area where the fourth estate has still been vigilant -- and this is the type of case that newspapers love to press in court.
That is what I don't get. If they want to get rid of Kiddie Porn, why are they just trying to block it? It seems to me that you should prosecute the dispicable freaks that put up this kind of crap. That would get more done than this will. I know that would be difficult too, but that ain't my problem. The law enforcement types all need to get a little more knowledge of how this technology works and then when some senator (state or federal) proposes a silly law, the law enforcement folks who know can tell them it's stupid and won't accomplish anything. I mean a lot law enforcement officers I have met have all been barely capable of punching the pin number into a credit card machine at the local Dunkin Donuts.
Gorkman
If the government says it would be illegal to tell anyone which sites have been blocked (it would be disseminating porn to do so), how did they tell the ISPs themselves which sites to block? Was that not disseminating porn? It's the same list after all!
You cannot have laws which seek to protect people without checks and balances - there must be some way of checking that the list is correct and does not harm the interests of others, ie innocent sites which just happen to be on the same server.
Mod parent up
I have a erotic picture of myself when I was 15. I took this picture with a webcam for a girl I liked, it involves only me. That picture is technically child porn (though I'm unclear if it was illegal for me to view it then, and it is illegal for me to possess it now. That blows my mind.
My parents have a picture of me naked that clearly shows my genitals. Technically that could be child porn. I'm embarrased by the picture yes, but it should not be child porn.
even if you are totally against the possession (as opposed to creation) of child porn, shouldn't those pictured have a right to I don't know, sanction their own pictures?
Statutory rape bugs me for similar reasons. I'm sorry, but if they were abused, then prosecute them. But why is it illegal to have sex with a willing partner? Coercion is handled by sexual abuse and rape laws, so why criminalize a victimless crime?
It's then hypocrisy to say that two minors having sex aren't commiting a crime? Is one of the hidden powers of being an adult, along with voting and such, the ability to turn normal sex (between minors) to rape? Basically I'm against victimless crimes. If something wrong happened, like coercion or abuse, then it's a crime already. Maybe I'll join that Free State Project>. I'm sick and tired of being told things that don't harm anybody should be criminal.
Gryftir
http://www.santacruzbynight.com/index.shtml Santa Cruz By Night Vampire Larp
1) Since they are required to block an unspecified list if sites, the only thing they can do is to block all access to the net.
2) Since this is such a big move, they will have to implement it stpe by step. The first step is to block the access for all sites related to PA state administration, and home lines of the people involved.
It might be sufficient just to announce this policy, but if the silly law isn't retracted, they may have to step in and actually block the lawmakers first...
In Murphy We Turst
Is it still kiddie porn if you have pictures of a 12 year old taken the day after she committed a crime that causes her to be tried as an adult?
You can only buy beer in PA from a bar unless you buy it from a distributor. Minimum quantity 1 case. Bar prices for 6 and 12 packs to go are higher than national average while case prices at the distributor stores are decent.
Liquor stores sell wine and hard stuff but no beer.
Go figure!
I run an ISP, no one has mentioned anything to me to ban any websites, but I am a smaller ISP. I have 1 portmaster 3 w/ 2 pri's comming into it.
>> ISPs are just carriers. They're not supposed to be filtering...
Says who? Seems to me it makes as much sense to compel ISP's to block child porn as it does to go after wholesalers and distributors that knowingly disseminate the stuff.
Communities have long prevented the illegal sale of child porn by blocking retailers from displaying and marketing the stuff. I.e., we don't allow them to carry it. The only effective way to prevent the display and marrketing of child porn via the web is to block access to known sites.
This isn't a free speech issue; it's about stopping criminals. Ordering an ISP to block child porn in no way diminishes that ISP's freedom to engage in legal activity.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Yes, and this foolishness started when Governor Tom Ridge was still in Pennsylvania. Recognize the name? He's Directory of Homeland Security Tom Ridge now. Whether Bush is directly involved, this is the kind of thing that his administration supports.
This is far from an original idea. The Pope and Roman Inquisition did the same thing back in the 1700's and 1800's. The Church published the "Index librorum prohibitorum" or "List of Prohibited Books".
Once the list got out, nearly every book on it became a best seller and eventually the list itself was put on the "Index librorum prohibitorum". So the Catholics arrived at the same point. The Catholics maintained a secret list of prohibited books but wouldn't disclose what was on the list for fear of promoting that which was prohibited.
Either this guy knows his history or it's a clear case of "There is nothing new under the Sun." I wonder if he also knows that in 1966 the Index was abolished. I suspect the list was abolished because the Catholics could no longer keep up with the volume of books being released and they had probably had their fill of p0rn too. So, if history does repeat itself, this list will fade away too. I just hope he doesn't start making claims that "heavy bodies fall faster than lighter bodies."
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Well ?
You have seen.
You have decided.
Now.. What are YOU going to do about it ?
Time travel is possible. We are quickly heading for 1984.
Surely somebody who has seen this list is of a mind to post it somewhere anonymously... a programmer at Worldcom or one of the other ISPs, or someone in the AG's office?
George Carlin needs a new routine to complement his "7 words you cannot say on TV and Radio" act.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Where's Flint when we need him come help please :)
Where does the filtering stop? And how will you know it has been extended into 'questionable' territory.
True child porn is illegal and wrong, but if you cant at least review the site names, who is to stop them from blocking political sites too. You cant review the list so you will never know who was just squelched.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
a) Some sites are illegal under Pennsylvanian law, because they contain kiddie pr0n by their definition.
b) Where those sites exist, they are either not kiddie pr0n or the local law enforcement couldn't really give a rats ass. Remember this doesn't have to be in Pennsylvania or the USA, which means they can't issue a takedown notice.
c) To keep Pennsylvanian residents from being able to view said material, they force ISPs to block these sites instead.
This has been a problem ever since the Internet was formed. Should Internet be a unified "cyberspace" or should there be "cyberboarders" with "cybercustoms" on every state line and national border, and only what is legal within that region may pass? Personally I feel they have the right to try, just as much as they have the right to try to stop people bringing physical kiddie pr0n tapes into the state. While the ISPs are the ones enforcing the block, the government is ultimately responsible for what is and is not blocked. I don't think you can go down to your local police station and see through their kiddie pr0n archive to verify that all the tapes they have confiscated, really is kiddie pr0n either...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Hehehe
Hrrm... I usually just sign my name.
I live in Pennsylvania and I've been using an international proxy server for a while because I don't trust either my state or my federal government.
Often, but not always, I use proxy servers to mask my location and avoid the possible censorship; especially while looking for information regarding the Iraq invasion. Aljezerra for one has blocked the USA at times from fully accessing their site. I would not doubt if my ISP or government has been censoring or monitoring the activities of their customers/citizens.
Don't trust anyone.
I can't access fark.com now.
Fark.com is a political site, not a child pornography site.
Maybe its not blocked, maybe its just down today.
God spoke to me
If you query if a site is blocked, it should return a yes or no.
In this way, they're not spreading porn.
God spoke to me
If the system isn't abused, and only sites containing child pornogrophy are blocked, then I think that this is an excellent idea. Only good can come frome blocking these types of sites, which contain images that are already illegal.
SIGFAULT
turn over the list ? If they were served, it is a public record and they are in no way bound to remain silent. I'd say there was some back room politics involved here...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Replace "sites that have child porn" with "e-mail accounts that send spam" and all of a suddon it's something that most Slashdotters are gung-ho in supporting.
Instead of block the sites, how about we
enforce the goddamned law and shutting them down
Most of Traci Lords' porn was made when she was under 18 and thus is "child porn", kiddie porn, etc. by definition and by legal determination - in fact.
Many comments are along the lines of how disgusting kiddie porn is or how sick its viewers are. Do you think Traci Lords porn is sick or perverted or unappealing to normal males?
Fact: much of what is legally kiddie porn is INDISTINGUISHABLE from regular porn.
Opinion: Within a few years, any normal PC will be capable of generating photo realistic images of nude children doing whatever.
Conclusion: Law enforcement activity needs to concentrate on actual children and use zeros and ones as possible evidence of a crime and not a crime in itself.
It would be interesting to know what sites are blocked and what sites are not blocked. If non pornographic sites with information about pedophilia are blocked this could be CENSORSHIP. Here is such a site: www.fpc.net/sites/. Maybe somebody from the Pennsylvania area can tell us if this is blocked or not.
There was an article on CNN, a few months back in the wake of the Pete Townsend arrest, which cited an unnamed FBI source as saying that 99% of all child porn being offered (online or otherwise) is being offered by law enforcement to catch people who seek it out. Will these sites be blocked by PA too ?
Like everyone else, I'm absolutely against child pornography. However, I am also against laws that are unenforceable or even worse, where an individual or business cannot reasonably avoid breaking the law.
This law makes about as much sense as taking a law that says it is "illegal to walk on the grass" to the extreme that it is also "illegal to look at the grass". The only possible way to enforce such a law is to blind everyone.
Likewise, the only way to ensure compliance with this law is to simply shut down all ISPs in Pennsylvania. After all, ISPs have no control over the actions of those at either end of a web transaction and monitoring all potential transactions for violations of the law is virtually impossible.
I'm no lawyer and not familiar with the current status of ISPs, but I thought that it has generally been established that ISPs are to be regarded as "common carriers" and thus offered immunity from laws such as this. Obviously, Pennsylvania doesn't think so. Otherwise they would hold their regional phone companies to the same standard as the ISPs they connect to. It seems logical that a phone company would be just as culpable as an ISP in that the very same digitized bits of child pornography that traverse the ISP also traverses the phone companies DSL and phone lines? Sure, it would be horrendously expensive and inconvenient for the phone companies to monitor and stop the "bad bits", but it is technically possible.
cause law enfrocement are excempt from the law if they have to do it as part of doing their job... [ie: a cop soliciting as a hooker cant be charged with it if it was t ocatch the jhons...]
Owner of the Girls Gone Wild empire was arrested for reasons related to this article. A Good Thing, if you ask me.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
Don't worry, it's just michael being knee-jerk about absolutely anything and posting whatever gobbledygook gets submitted.
Pennsylvania could be banning child porn sites and michael would still be up in arms! Oh...damn. I have a question. Why would you trust policeman and the government to normally enforce the illegality of child porn and child abuse, yet not trust them to block child porn websites? In either case, you're trusting them to make the judgement call about what makes up child porn.
But because its websites, we get nice and knee-jerk about it. "How dare they decide what is child porn and block websites without telling me! Oh--so they've been busting child porn rings and arresting offenders for years, and I've trusted them with doing that. But that's okay, because it doesn't involve some idealistic Slashdot movement to make absolutely everything available on the internet! How dare they block child porn websites, and even worse, not tell me what they are! Down with all child porn laws because I don't trust them to make the judgement call! Viva child porn!"
Kind of disgusting in my view. But, hey. I'll probably get modded into oblivion, or some wannabe free speech lawyer will reply and start lecturing me about how "this sets a dangerous precedent" that "allows the government to decide what we can and cannot view." I'm sorry, but I don't want to view child porn! If you don't trust the government to decide what is child porn, why do you let them when it comes to standard child porn and abuse laws? Should civilians be enforcing all laws now because they don't trust whether or not the government can correctly judge what is illegal? Better not have faith in any policemen, detectives, or anyone else.
But what do I know? I'm going against the mentality of michael and his minions here. I guess I'll head over to michael's RIAA piracy article and attempt to inject a little sanity over there now instead of "OMG!!1 RIAA IS SUING OVER ILLEGAL PIRACY! HOW DARE THEY!!1"
From crackhead moderators who mod you down when they disagree with you, to vindictive editors who hound you into oblivion, it can be hard having a dissenting opinion on Slashdot!
"Sufferin' succotash."
Umm, so if there exists a list of known child-porn sites, why have they not been shut down?
One possibility is that the sites on the list are sites that are border-line questionable. (perhaps fake child-porn for example?) That the government knows it can't get shut down through the legal system, so they do it this way.
Or maybe they aren't child-porn sites at all! Maybe the government has hired an uberhacker named "Rat" to "hack the planet" and prevent anyone from finding out about the secret government plan to save the planet by riding a metal turd to the center of the earth and setting off a nuke (magically five nukes later). Don't worry about the fact that this is a Pennsylvania only law because the movie you're in already makes no sense!
So if I read this article and some of this discussion, and I e-mail it to a friend who has kids, the FBI could find the term "Child Pornography", call me a terrorist and put me in jail? Ouch...
"It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
In my view, there is nothing more obscene than censorship. Back in the late '60s or early '70s, the President of the US established a Congressional committee to study the issue. They could find no link between pornography and crime. This study and its findings were published in the Congressional Record. The President quickly swept it under the rug, as best he could, but the publishers of Zap Comics (popular underground comic books) got hold of it and published an illustrated version. It contained photographs to illustrate just about everything mentioned in the Congressional Record, along with the text, and yes, some of it was damn disgusting, but it made a point: the Committee viewed this same sort of stuff, and though they may have found it disgusting, they saw no harm in it. These dumbass politicians need to look for REAL problems to solve and quit sweating the small stuff. And parents need to keep a closer eye on their kids.
part of China now? or am I missing something? The one thing the story doesn't cover is exactly -who- in the office gets to decide what the kiddy porn sites are.
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
So, if somebody who reads slashdot is privy to this list, why not send it to cryptome.org or 2600? They'll publish it. If not, just post it anonymously to USENET or something. In fact, email the PA governor, PA legislators, and even your congresscritters with it so that they will be in violation of the law. Or post it to slashdot!
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand