Just for fun, I put the phrase "A penny saved is a penny earned" through Babelfish to translate to German and back (not my idea), and got the following:
I'm not trying to put down Ogg or Vorbis specificially. I'll freely admit that it's technologically superior. However, practically, there are dozens of reasons why people could, quite reasonably, continue to use MP3 anyway. Technology isn't the only selling point.
In my particular case, and in the OP's, that reason is that it's not as widely supported.
Saying that we should go out and buy new equipment so we can use Ogg is, IMO, just stupid. Ogg isn't ENOUGH better to justify it. Even if you're looking for a new player, the (supposedly, I haven't used it or really anything else myself) user interface of he iPod might win out over Ogg support. And quite reasonably.
And because we refuse to buy new or different products to get Ogg support doesn't necessarily mean that we are blindly following the masses.
You can if you own the copyright to the part you want to put under LGPL.
Look at it like this. We'll used the BSD license because the differences are more drastic.
I can release my program under the GPL license or the BSD license. I can also put links to two different downloads of the same code, one of which has a COPYING that's the GPL and one that's BSD. Do you agree so far?
I can also distribute just the GPL version, and say "this is dual licensed under the GPL and BSD."
This is how there's BSD code in the Linux kernel. (Okay, I don't know for sure there is, but I'd bet good money there's some there whether it's marked as such or not.)
What the OP is saying is that you can license part of the program under GPL only, than dual license the public part under GPL and BSD. (Or LGPL)
...which has no bearing on the grandparent's post, which is about the Linux kernel.
The Linux kernel only makes most of itit available under v2 of the license:
Also note that the only valid version of the GPL as far as the kernel is concerned is _this_ particular version of the license (ie v2, not v2.2 or v3.x or whatever), unless explicitly otherwise stated.
I'll give you my address if you want to send a check. (I'm tempted to just post my current address as I move out in 4 days, but that still probably is a bad idea.)
Until then, the benefits of OGG don't give me enough reason to change. Especially when I can encode at 256 kbps; I can't tell the difference between that and the original. Sure, it takes up more space than the OGG, but that's not a big concern for me. I have enough hard drive space, and my MP3 player is an MP3 CD player so I can carry around arbitrarily large amounts of music.
Especially if they starts putting into press releases and game manuals "This game will not run well on Vista. It is strongly reccommended to use Windows XP or earlier."
Or make it so the programs just won't run at all on Vista, though I think that'd be a bad idea.
There may not be pollution with those, but if you're concerned about ecological impact, hydroelectric plants can hardly be said to have a negligible effect.
Even wind and solar take up vast amounts of land.
They're still probably better than the alternatives, but they are far from perfect. The real solution to this is to reduce consumption.
Keep in mind that anything you produce will probably be tied to the VC++ library that ships with VS. If you call printf, MS's (copyrighted) printf implementation goes with your code. You code could then be considered a derivative work.
The license grants you no rights to produce such a work because you're not a student, so at the very least you probably wouldn't be able to distribute them. (You could argue fair use, but in the case of distribution I don't think it'd fly.)
Of course, if you replace the Microsoft's implementation with, say, some glibc for Windows, you're probably golden as far as criminal court goes.
(However, MS could probably still get you on a breach of CONTRACT, assuming that EULAs aren't thrown out. They probably couldn't garnish any profits from your work per se, but they could force you to buy the full version of VS, plus punative damages, plus costs, plus your costs.)
Um, if you use VS, your code doesn't magically go away.
If you work in VS for a while, then the bits on your computer get corrupted and it doesn't work, or you hit a bug, or whatever, JUST TAKE YOUR CODE AND USE SOMETHING ELSE. You'll be no worse off than if you had just used something else initially. (Okay, you may be a little worse off because you'd have to write a makefile, but that's something you'd have to have already done and it would have slowed you down later.)
But we can also just ask the question: if you are free to choose your language, which is the better IDE? And I think it's pretty clear that Eclipse is.
With the release of VS 2005 (with at least some refactoring support, I don't know how much, I haven't used it) I don't think that either has a clear advantage over the other.
(And, incidentally, I hate programming in Java with a passion and would gladly program in C++ with, say, Notepadd++ as my sole editor before Eclipse in Java on most projects. But that's because of a ton of beefs I have with the Java language as defined and a number of (IMHO) limitations Java has rather than the IDE, so is incidental to this discussion.)
Incidentally, there are GUI designer plug-ins for Eclipse.
Really? Can you link some? What language/toolkit? I'd love to see them.
I should make it clear that I think Eclipse is wonderful and all, and it's by far and away the best free IDE I know, but I would say that, even if you compare C++ or C# (or VB, but we won't mention that again) under VS 2005 to Java under Eclipse, the tables are pretty much even.
Before, I wrote a stupid little class to test it with, then in another file made an object of that type, then tried to get it to show the code suggestion window, and it didn't come up. What I didn't realize is that I forgot to include the file, which is why it didn't come up.
(Incidentially though, VS's Intellisense is still nicer. It gives icons corresponding to the type of member (public/private/protected and function/field) which is extremely nice. KDevelop seems to indiscriminately show all members. Eclipse (and from what I surmise from other comments, VS 2005) goes a step further and for the currently highlighted function shows any documentation associated with it, drawn from the JavaDoc. KDevelop doesn't even give you the return type.)
As for the indentation, I didn't have the option on to do it.
So it looks like my earlier comments were just my ignorance and stupidity talking. (Which is not surprising, considering that I was pretty sure that I had seen both those features in KDevelop before.)
(BTW, the comments on its shortfallings are based on KDevelop 3.1.2, so I'm a minor release behind.)
Some implementations of "Intellisense" (in quotes because the term is actually VS specific, but I'm using it generically) show you source comments.
Besides, what if you know most of the signature, but can't remember which order the args come in? Don't really need the comments for that.
Finally, it just speeds up typing. Instead of typing out a whole name -- and very easily making a typo -- you usually just have to type a few characters.
Other people prefer Eclipse, and arguably, Eclipse has long surpassed Visual Studio both in terms of UI and in terms of functionality.
The Java development features surpass VS, but VS has a couple things working for it:
1. C++ support is still better than Eclipse + CDT. VS 2005 will have refactoring support, CDT doesn't appear to. (The refactoring menu is at least empty.) You can't even rename an identifier let alone do many of the more complex refactoring tasks. (Disclaimer: I haven't tried the prereleases of CDT 3. They could support refactoring.) It won't autoformat code. (This time I'm pretty sure CDT 3 *will* support that.)
2. If you want a GUI designer, Eclipse doesn't help you at all.
It's not so much that I like VS's implementation of Intellisense. (It was reasonably poor in VS6, often not showing up. I've had little problem with VS.NET though.) I just used that term because it exactly describes what I'm talking about. (Something like 'code completion' doesn't, because I've seen other things that could be called that.)
I've done a lot of Java work recently in Eclipse for instance, and think that the Intellisense in Eclipse is fantastic.
KDevelop doesn't have an intellisense type feature near as I can tell, and that drops it below the 75% itself IMHO.
I just tried it, and it doesn't even seem to do auto code indenting. If i type if(a==b) { , any half decent IDE should indent the following line. KDevelop didn't. (I didn't look for an option to turn this on, I'll be fair.)
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This is one of the funniest posts I've seen in a while, redundant or not
Just for fun, I put the phrase "A penny saved is a penny earned" through Babelfish to translate to German and back (not my idea), and got the following:
"A penny, which is stored, is an acquired penny."
I'm not trying to put down Ogg or Vorbis specificially. I'll freely admit that it's technologically superior. However, practically, there are dozens of reasons why people could, quite reasonably, continue to use MP3 anyway. Technology isn't the only selling point.
In my particular case, and in the OP's, that reason is that it's not as widely supported.
Saying that we should go out and buy new equipment so we can use Ogg is, IMO, just stupid. Ogg isn't ENOUGH better to justify it. Even if you're looking for a new player, the (supposedly, I haven't used it or really anything else myself) user interface of he iPod might win out over Ogg support. And quite reasonably.
And because we refuse to buy new or different products to get Ogg support doesn't necessarily mean that we are blindly following the masses.
You can if you own the copyright to the part you want to put under LGPL.
Look at it like this. We'll used the BSD license because the differences are more drastic.
I can release my program under the GPL license or the BSD license. I can also put links to two different downloads of the same code, one of which has a COPYING that's the GPL and one that's BSD. Do you agree so far?
I can also distribute just the GPL version, and say "this is dual licensed under the GPL and BSD."
This is how there's BSD code in the Linux kernel. (Okay, I don't know for sure there is, but I'd bet good money there's some there whether it's marked as such or not.)
What the OP is saying is that you can license part of the program under GPL only, than dual license the public part under GPL and BSD. (Or LGPL)
The problem isn't making the document say what you want it to say.
The problem is figuring out what you want it to say.
The Linux kernel only makes most of itit available under v2 of the license:
COPYING from linux-2-6-12-13.tar
No, this is comparing apples and oranges.
Just because a player plays the 'standard' formats does not make it superior.
The poster didn't say there was a casual relation there.
For all you know, the poster's opinion could be that the iPod is a better player in spite of the lack of OGG support.
Just because a player plays only the 'standard' formats doesn't mean it's inferior either.
Get a better player
I'll give you my address if you want to send a check. (I'm tempted to just post my current address as I move out in 4 days, but that still probably is a bad idea.)
Until then, the benefits of OGG don't give me enough reason to change. Especially when I can encode at 256 kbps; I can't tell the difference between that and the original. Sure, it takes up more space than the OGG, but that's not a big concern for me. I have enough hard drive space, and my MP3 player is an MP3 CD player so I can carry around arbitrarily large amounts of music.
It's got negative information in it!
Wow, so your confidentiality extends beyond the legal privilege communications of attorney-client, spouses, doctor-patient, etc. Interesting.
I would have thought it would have been roughly in line.
What if the conversation contains more than merely threatening language, to the point of, for instance, conspiring to commit a crime?
Assuming you have to/can report it, where does the line fall?
Especially if they starts putting into press releases and game manuals "This game will not run well on Vista. It is strongly reccommended to use Windows XP or earlier."
Or make it so the programs just won't run at all on Vista, though I think that'd be a bad idea.
There may not be pollution with those, but if you're concerned about ecological impact, hydroelectric plants can hardly be said to have a negligible effect.
Even wind and solar take up vast amounts of land.
They're still probably better than the alternatives, but they are far from perfect. The real solution to this is to reduce consumption.
Keep in mind that anything you produce will probably be tied to the VC++ library that ships with VS. If you call printf, MS's (copyrighted) printf implementation goes with your code. You code could then be considered a derivative work.
The license grants you no rights to produce such a work because you're not a student, so at the very least you probably wouldn't be able to distribute them. (You could argue fair use, but in the case of distribution I don't think it'd fly.)
Of course, if you replace the Microsoft's implementation with, say, some glibc for Windows, you're probably golden as far as criminal court goes.
(However, MS could probably still get you on a breach of CONTRACT, assuming that EULAs aren't thrown out. They probably couldn't garnish any profits from your work per se, but they could force you to buy the full version of VS, plus punative damages, plus costs, plus your costs.)
Um, if you use VS, your code doesn't magically go away.
If you work in VS for a while, then the bits on your computer get corrupted and it doesn't work, or you hit a bug, or whatever, JUST TAKE YOUR CODE AND USE SOMETHING ELSE. You'll be no worse off than if you had just used something else initially. (Okay, you may be a little worse off because you'd have to write a makefile, but that's something you'd have to have already done and it would have slowed you down later.)
Older versions of Qt (i.e. 2) had pre-.NET Visual Studio plug-ins.
Don't forget refactoring support.
This is a recent innovation in IDEs (last couple years) but is one I could easily see becoming a second killer feature.
I put Refactor > Rename alone at almost the importance level I hold Intellisense, which, as you can see somewhere around here, is very high.
(Okay, I suppose that there could be a VI or Emacs plugin that'll do this, but I haven't run across any)
But we can also just ask the question: if you are free to choose your language, which is the better IDE? And I think it's pretty clear that Eclipse is.
With the release of VS 2005 (with at least some refactoring support, I don't know how much, I haven't used it) I don't think that either has a clear advantage over the other.
(And, incidentally, I hate programming in Java with a passion and would gladly program in C++ with, say, Notepadd++ as my sole editor before Eclipse in Java on most projects. But that's because of a ton of beefs I have with the Java language as defined and a number of (IMHO) limitations Java has rather than the IDE, so is incidental to this discussion.)
Incidentally, there are GUI designer plug-ins for Eclipse.
Really? Can you link some? What language/toolkit? I'd love to see them.
I should make it clear that I think Eclipse is wonderful and all, and it's by far and away the best free IDE I know, but I would say that, even if you compare C++ or C# (or VB, but we won't mention that again) under VS 2005 to Java under Eclipse, the tables are pretty much even.
Ah, I see.
Before, I wrote a stupid little class to test it with, then in another file made an object of that type, then tried to get it to show the code suggestion window, and it didn't come up. What I didn't realize is that I forgot to include the file, which is why it didn't come up.
(Incidentially though, VS's Intellisense is still nicer. It gives icons corresponding to the type of member (public/private/protected and function/field) which is extremely nice. KDevelop seems to indiscriminately show all members. Eclipse (and from what I surmise from other comments, VS 2005) goes a step further and for the currently highlighted function shows any documentation associated with it, drawn from the JavaDoc. KDevelop doesn't even give you the return type.)
As for the indentation, I didn't have the option on to do it.
So it looks like my earlier comments were just my ignorance and stupidity talking. (Which is not surprising, considering that I was pretty sure that I had seen both those features in KDevelop before.)
(BTW, the comments on its shortfallings are based on KDevelop 3.1.2, so I'm a minor release behind.)
Some implementations of "Intellisense" (in quotes because the term is actually VS specific, but I'm using it generically) show you source comments.
Besides, what if you know most of the signature, but can't remember which order the args come in? Don't really need the comments for that.
Finally, it just speeds up typing. Instead of typing out a whole name -- and very easily making a typo -- you usually just have to type a few characters.
Other people prefer Eclipse, and arguably, Eclipse has long surpassed Visual Studio both in terms of UI and in terms of functionality.
The Java development features surpass VS, but VS has a couple things working for it:
1. C++ support is still better than Eclipse + CDT. VS 2005 will have refactoring support, CDT doesn't appear to. (The refactoring menu is at least empty.) You can't even rename an identifier let alone do many of the more complex refactoring tasks. (Disclaimer: I haven't tried the prereleases of CDT 3. They could support refactoring.) It won't autoformat code. (This time I'm pretty sure CDT 3 *will* support that.)
2. If you want a GUI designer, Eclipse doesn't help you at all.
Actually, I take that back.
The 'rename' refactoring tool might make me switch to something without Intellisense. Maybe.
(Any replacement for that for XEmacs BTW? (Also, I am not trying to bash Emacs. I love Emacs. Just not for programming.))
It's not so much that I like VS's implementation of Intellisense. (It was reasonably poor in VS6, often not showing up. I've had little problem with VS.NET though.) I just used that term because it exactly describes what I'm talking about. (Something like 'code completion' doesn't, because I've seen other things that could be called that.)
I've done a lot of Java work recently in Eclipse for instance, and think that the Intellisense in Eclipse is fantastic.
KDevelop doesn't have an intellisense type feature near as I can tell, and that drops it below the 75% itself IMHO.
I just tried it, and it doesn't even seem to do auto code indenting. If i type if(a==b) { , any half decent IDE should indent the following line. KDevelop didn't. (I didn't look for an option to turn this on, I'll be fair.)