I'd think that if I had nearly 400 million -- or perhaps as much as a billion at BTC's, what, $1100+ peak -- that I'd probably have moved some of it "physically" offline......created some number of wallets that weren't managed by my electronic system, with keys and passwords not managed by my admins, only by a trusted third party, and moved funds into those wallets in 10M, or 50M, or 100M values.
There. Then my auditor from PCW (or wherever) makes a printed copy of the keys, an electronic copy of the keys, and then deposits them in a safe deposit box like you'd store diamonds or gold. The only way to get them would be to have your lawyer's office meet you at the vault and "unencrypt" your keys from the bank vault.
FFS people, drop some cash in a deposit bag at the bank.
We chose a lease for exactly this reason. We'll see where the technology is in 3 years.
In the meantime, I see a very high rate of adoption of public chargers in my city. As mentioned in other posts, only twice in the last 10,000 miles have I ever been more than 5 miles from one. At least two of the places on my regular work-lunch circuit have free chargers as well.
I had been doing pretty basic cocktail napkin math, which was based on the 2012 average of $3.60/gal, and crediting most of the cars presented at $0.10/mile based on 30/39 city/highway numbers.
The 2013 average is about $3.50, but the math holds true for most cases of cocktail napkins and envelope backs.
I can lease a Civic for under $200 a month. A Leaf runs about $300 a month. The Leaf uses less money for go-go juice, but not enough to break that difference.
Why are you so afraid to DO BASIC MATH? Why do you keep making up numbers? Is your search button broken? A Leaf is $199/mo. Leaf Lease: 36mo, 199/mo+tax, 2k down. Civic Lease: 36mo, 159/mo+tax, 2k down.
Although the average driver drives MUCH farther, these leases are 12,000 miles before a penalty. Even assuming a modest 800 miles a month, the civic is 10c/mile to drive on gas, and costs you $80. The leaf costs $20 in electricity. That makes the Civic $280+/mo and the Leaf $220+/mo on even modest driving.
Tell me: Which is more? $280 or $220?
The fact is, all costs considered (including depreciation), a Leaf just doesn't make any sense.
The person I responded to, Lumpy, falsely said that it'd take 10 years to break even on a Leaf vs Civic purchase, and for an average driver - he's dead wrong.
You're charging to 80%, which is probably a good idea if your commute is 30 miles round-trip and you're an owner, not a lessee.
I do wonder how the logic works for the mileage estimates. I always assumed (at least based on my watching mine) that it started by giving you an average based on long-term driving, and then weighed that based on actual driving conditions. Obviously it factors in something. At 100%, I see anywhere between low 80's and low 90's when I sit down -- so it's not just the last few miles you drove -- since my home is in the boonies, the last 8 miles are almost always the same.
Obviously a Leaf isn't the right car for you -- it's not the right car for a lot of people. It wasn't the right car when I drove to ABQ recently. I rented a car that weekend. [It's almost never worth driving your own car over a couple hundred miles versus a cheap rental, but that's another story.]
Range anxiety, having such a small bladder -- it's a fear you overcome early in your driving of a Leaf. It took me a week or two; it took my wife a couple months.
What people don't realize about the Leaf is that......you just go about your day. Every time you get home, magic elves start filling your gas tank. Sure these elves steal about 60 or 70 cents a day from you in electricity, but every day these elves charge your car while you sleep. When you drive to the movies, you park up front, in the reserved electric car spot with the free charger they provide at nearly every mall. About 50% of your grocery stores (in my city), you just park and top off your Leaf while you shop -- all while parking near the front row again. You just go about your day.
The 85 miles you can go in a day easily -- easily -- can become 100+ as you just go about your day, doing what you normally do.
After a while, the anxiety subsides.
Every once in a while, you have a plan a trip. The overwhelming majority of the time......not so much.
We've got 10k on our Leaf in way less than a year, and we'll be over 15k for sure before the year ends.
It's a fact that people drive, on average, 15k a year. There's no reason Leaf drivers will drive more or less. The Leaf can certainly support a modest 41 miles a day -- you know, what people drive. I don't have any data to suggest that Leaf owners drive fewer miles than conventional drivers.
Of *course* I'm taking the tax credit into account. Why shouldn't I? [PS. Nobody leasing a Leaf gets a tax credit except the dealer.]
The OP didn't say that it'd take 10 years for his car to look better, he didn't say he'd have to charge over night - he said it'd take 10 years to BREAK EVEN ON COSTS and he's completely stupid if he believes that.
You can dislike the Leaf. It might not be the car for you, but you break even with a Leaf over a Civic in 38,700 miles - give or take.
Unless you're only driving 3800 miles a year, that's well before 10 years.
Price difference, I will be ahead of him for 10 years at $4.00 a gallon gas before the Leaf saves him enough money to reduce its TCO to my civic.
Are you bad at math?
A base four-door Civic is $18,300, and costs roughly 10c/mile worth of gas to drive. A base Leaf is $21,400 after the tax credit, and costs roughly 2c/mile in electricity to drive.
That means you take 38,750 miles before you've both paid $22,175
A Versa Note is about $8,000 less than a Leaf after incentives. [If you can actually afford a new car, you can probably take advantage of the tax credit. YMMV.]
The Versa Note costs about 10c/mile to drive in gas. The Leaf costs about 2c/mile to drive in electricity.
There's this thing called the road. Being able to change the stereo with your thumb on the steering wheel control, or press the hard button with your right hand beats looking away from the road and locating it on a big smooth screen every day of the week.
The Leaf, sadly, is DOA. Unless you start getting charging stations everywhere the only practical alternative is the hybrid.
Says who? 500+ public chargers in my city. I've only twice been >5 miles from a charger. I was 5.2 miles away from a CHAdeMO charger when visiting my parent's retirement community, and I was once 23 miles away on a trip to the casino outside of town.
The other 10,000 miles I've driven have never, ever, been more than a few minutes from a charger in nearly any direction.
I actually lease my Leaf SV (the middle trim) for $300/month. Considering I save almost $100/month in gas, and only pay $20 more per month in electricity, I think it's a great value. The thing I didn't expect to love is the single speed transmission. You don't realize how obnoxious gear changes are until you drive without them.
Surprising you'd mention a 25+25 range. My average is 85 on a full tank, and that jives with most other owners.
Agreed. The leaf is just too range challenged. (Claims 100miles, owners say half of that)
Leaf owners aren't claiming 50 mile ranges, at least not in bulk.
I do blended highway/city driving in a huge sprawl city, and I get about 86. [That's 3.9 miles per kWh, which jives with what a lot of people will tell you.] Even under the worst possible conditions (all freeway) I get the 70 miles necessary to go to my office and back.
Add to that, the leaf has little in the way of creature comforts or high tech gadgetry.
What creature comforts do you think the leaf is missing?
It matches most other lines of car at similar prices in terms of features. The mid-level version (which is less than 3k ask over the base) has a nice XM stereo with on-steering-wheel controls, navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc. It's nothing "fancy," but it's certainly not missing hightech gadgetry. The base model is only missing built-in navigation and has cheaper wheels. http://www.nissanusa.com/elect...
Its safety rating is Good, (code word for mediocre)
Perhaps. "Good" at IIHS is their top rating. It's only 4 out of at Safecar.gov USnews gave it a 9, which is in the middle of other Hybrid/Electric cars.
As mentioned, it is not any more bare than any other car in this price range.
Its performance is abysmal
You haven't driven one, or you're only interested in high-speed driving. Yes, the Leaf tops out at 93mph (that's a 10,000rpm artificial limit on the motor), but it's VERY VERY quick in city situations, and certainly doesn't suffer getting on the freeway either. You've got full torque from a stop. You never worry about merging or having to beat someone out to change lanes. It's not a giant beast, but it's by not means a car with "abysmal performance."
One "simple" password, used for web services that don't have any sort of financial or other "real" interaction with me beyond a pseudonym and a download I needed to access or an article behind registration that I needed to read.
One "complex" password with a little bit of ever-changing entropy used for things like Google or Microsoft type services, banking/mortgage sites that don't offer me two-factor, etc. Your basic 7724hAppy!d0G$$smil3s sort of affair. Next year they'll all rotate slowly into 8562saD^DOG$$fr0wnz, if they're still in use, rendering abandoned site's passwords useless.
And either two-factor authentication (RSA + "complex") or a unique "complex" password for accessing my work or accessing my uber-secrets.
I frankly can't be bothered with much beyond that.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd think that if I had nearly 400 million -- or perhaps as much as a billion at BTC's, what, $1100+ peak -- that I'd probably have moved some of it "physically" offline... ...created some number of wallets that weren't managed by my electronic system, with keys and passwords not managed by my admins, only by a trusted third party, and moved funds into those wallets in 10M, or 50M, or 100M values.
There. Then my auditor from PCW (or wherever) makes a printed copy of the keys, an electronic copy of the keys, and then deposits them in a safe deposit box like you'd store diamonds or gold. The only way to get them would be to have your lawyer's office meet you at the vault and "unencrypt" your keys from the bank vault.
FFS people, drop some cash in a deposit bag at the bank.
We chose a lease for exactly this reason. We'll see where the technology is in 3 years.
In the meantime, I see a very high rate of adoption of public chargers in my city. As mentioned in other posts, only twice in the last 10,000 miles have I ever been more than 5 miles from one. At least two of the places on my regular work-lunch circuit have free chargers as well.
YMMV
It's, what, $35k?
The middle model, with a modicum of nice features is 24.4 after the tax credit, which is a real thing.
I had been doing pretty basic cocktail napkin math, which was based on the 2012 average of $3.60/gal, and crediting most of the cars presented at $0.10/mile based on 30/39 city/highway numbers.
The 2013 average is about $3.50, but the math holds true for most cases of cocktail napkins and envelope backs.
I can lease a Civic for under $200 a month. A Leaf runs about $300 a month. The Leaf uses less money for go-go juice, but not enough to break that difference.
Why are you so afraid to DO BASIC MATH? Why do you keep making up numbers? Is your search button broken? A Leaf is $199/mo.
Leaf Lease: 36mo, 199/mo+tax, 2k down.
Civic Lease: 36mo, 159/mo+tax, 2k down.
Although the average driver drives MUCH farther, these leases are 12,000 miles before a penalty. Even assuming a modest 800 miles a month, the civic is 10c/mile to drive on gas, and costs you $80. The leaf costs $20 in electricity. That makes the Civic $280+/mo and the Leaf $220+/mo on even modest driving.
Tell me: Which is more? $280 or $220?
The fact is, all costs considered (including depreciation), a Leaf just doesn't make any sense.
The person I responded to, Lumpy, falsely said that it'd take 10 years to break even on a Leaf vs Civic purchase, and for an average driver - he's dead wrong.
Stop making up new arguments.
We get it. A Leaf isn't the car for you.
If you can get 50-60 on 80%, it sounds like you can get 65-75 on a full charge.
An all freeway trip at 65 miles, with only a tiny bit remaining sounds right.
That could have easily been 80 blended city.
You're charging to 80%, which is probably a good idea if your commute is 30 miles round-trip and you're an owner, not a lessee.
I do wonder how the logic works for the mileage estimates. I always assumed (at least based on my watching mine) that it started by giving you an average based on long-term driving, and then weighed that based on actual driving conditions. Obviously it factors in something. At 100%, I see anywhere between low 80's and low 90's when I sit down -- so it's not just the last few miles you drove -- since my home is in the boonies, the last 8 miles are almost always the same.
Obviously a Leaf isn't the right car for you -- it's not the right car for a lot of people. It wasn't the right car when I drove to ABQ recently. I rented a car that weekend. [It's almost never worth driving your own car over a couple hundred miles versus a cheap rental, but that's another story.]
Range anxiety, having such a small bladder -- it's a fear you overcome early in your driving of a Leaf. It took me a week or two; it took my wife a couple months.
What people don't realize about the Leaf is that... ...you just go about your day. Every time you get home, magic elves start filling your gas tank. Sure these elves steal about 60 or 70 cents a day from you in electricity, but every day these elves charge your car while you sleep. When you drive to the movies, you park up front, in the reserved electric car spot with the free charger they provide at nearly every mall. About 50% of your grocery stores (in my city), you just park and top off your Leaf while you shop -- all while parking near the front row again. You just go about your day.
The 85 miles you can go in a day easily -- easily -- can become 100+ as you just go about your day, doing what you normally do.
After a while, the anxiety subsides.
Every once in a while, you have a plan a trip. The overwhelming majority of the time... ...not so much.
Does your Leaf have lower than average usage? Mine doesn't.
We've got 10k on our Leaf in way less than a year, and we'll be over 15k for sure before the year ends.
It's a fact that people drive, on average, 15k a year. There's no reason Leaf drivers will drive more or less. The Leaf can certainly support a modest 41 miles a day -- you know, what people drive. I don't have any data to suggest that Leaf owners drive fewer miles than conventional drivers.
Of *course* I'm taking the tax credit into account. Why shouldn't I? [PS. Nobody leasing a Leaf gets a tax credit except the dealer.]
The OP didn't say that it'd take 10 years for his car to look better, he didn't say he'd have to charge over night - he said it'd take 10 years to BREAK EVEN ON COSTS and he's completely stupid if he believes that.
You can dislike the Leaf. It might not be the car for you, but you break even with a Leaf over a Civic in 38,700 miles - give or take.
Unless you're only driving 3800 miles a year, that's well before 10 years.
Price difference, I will be ahead of him for 10 years at $4.00 a gallon gas before the Leaf saves him enough money to reduce its TCO to my civic.
Are you bad at math?
A base four-door Civic is $18,300, and costs roughly 10c/mile worth of gas to drive.
A base Leaf is $21,400 after the tax credit, and costs roughly 2c/mile in electricity to drive.
That means you take 38,750 miles before you've both paid $22,175
The average person 20-54 drives 15k/year.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/...
The average person breaks even in cost of driving half way through YEAR THREE, not ten.
This is true of any range. Someone's driving habits will put them outside of its range.
There's a big difference between an automatic transmission and either a CVT or a constant-ratio transmission.
Smoov...
A Versa Note is about $8,000 less than a Leaf after incentives. [If you can actually afford a new car, you can probably take advantage of the tax credit. YMMV.]
The Versa Note costs about 10c/mile to drive in gas.
The Leaf costs about 2c/mile to drive in electricity.
The average 20-54 year old drives about 15k/year.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/...
The Leaf becomes cheaper than the Versa Note late in year 6.
You're kidding, right?
There's this thing called the road. Being able to change the stereo with your thumb on the steering wheel control, or press the hard button with your right hand beats looking away from the road and locating it on a big smooth screen every day of the week.
The Leaf, sadly, is DOA. Unless you start getting charging stations everywhere the only practical alternative is the hybrid.
Says who?
500+ public chargers in my city. I've only twice been >5 miles from a charger. I was 5.2 miles away from a CHAdeMO charger when visiting my parent's retirement community, and I was once 23 miles away on a trip to the casino outside of town.
The other 10,000 miles I've driven have never, ever, been more than a few minutes from a charger in nearly any direction.
I would have brought it in, and watched them change it.... :)
Concur. The shortest person in my family is 5'10", and we fit four just fine.
I actually lease my Leaf SV (the middle trim) for $300/month. Considering I save almost $100/month in gas, and only pay $20 more per month in electricity, I think it's a great value. The thing I didn't expect to love is the single speed transmission. You don't realize how obnoxious gear changes are until you drive without them.
Surprising you'd mention a 25+25 range. My average is 85 on a full tank, and that jives with most other owners.
Are you charging your lease to 80%?
What 50 mile range?
Real world Leaf owners get 85+ on average.
I'm currently averaging just above that myself, and non-freeway driving can easily net 100+.
A Leaf driven at 35mph can get over 130.
n.b. Leaf Owner.
Agreed. The leaf is just too range challenged. (Claims 100miles, owners say half of that)
Leaf owners aren't claiming 50 mile ranges, at least not in bulk.
I do blended highway/city driving in a huge sprawl city, and I get about 86. [That's 3.9 miles per kWh, which jives with what a lot of people will tell you.] Even under the worst possible conditions (all freeway) I get the 70 miles necessary to go to my office and back.
Add to that, the leaf has little in the way of creature comforts or high tech gadgetry.
What creature comforts do you think the leaf is missing?
It matches most other lines of car at similar prices in terms of features. The mid-level version (which is less than 3k ask over the base) has a nice XM stereo with on-steering-wheel controls, navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc. It's nothing "fancy," but it's certainly not missing hightech gadgetry. The base model is only missing built-in navigation and has cheaper wheels.
http://www.nissanusa.com/elect...
Its safety rating is Good, (code word for mediocre)
Perhaps. "Good" at IIHS is their top rating. It's only 4 out of at Safecar.gov USnews gave it a 9, which is in the middle of other Hybrid/Electric cars.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratin...
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl...
http://usnews.rankingsandrevie...
Its a pretty bare bones car, sold at a loss.
As mentioned, it is not any more bare than any other car in this price range.
Its performance is abysmal
You haven't driven one, or you're only interested in high-speed driving. Yes, the Leaf tops out at 93mph (that's a 10,000rpm artificial limit on the motor), but it's VERY VERY quick in city situations, and certainly doesn't suffer getting on the freeway either. You've got full torque from a stop. You never worry about merging or having to beat someone out to change lanes. It's not a giant beast, but it's by not means a car with "abysmal performance."
With only 100 billion humans having ever lived, and 7 billion of us on the planet now, being human currently only has a 93% mortality rate.
As I'm currently one of the 7%...as to my plan to live forever...so far, so good.
When I'm a VM slice in the Google Omnipresence Datacenter, I won't know when I've been turned off.
Much like I assume humans have no idea that they're dead - since they don't have ideas - since they're dead.
We just need to believe we're going to the GOD.
I fail at /b>
I'm pretty awful at password management.
One "simple" password, used for web services that don't have any sort of financial or other "real" interaction with me beyond a pseudonym and a download I needed to access or an article behind registration that I needed to read.
One "complex" password with a little bit of ever-changing entropy used for things like Google or Microsoft type services, banking/mortgage sites that don't offer me two-factor, etc. Your basic 7724hAppy!d0G$$smil3s sort of affair. Next year they'll all rotate slowly into 8562saD^DOG$$fr0wnz, if they're still in use, rendering abandoned site's passwords useless.
And either two-factor authentication (RSA + "complex") or a unique "complex" password for accessing my work or accessing my uber-secrets.
I frankly can't be bothered with much beyond that.