Hey now, don't be insulting the parent post;-p I mean, if you're gonna insult anyone, insult my post for being an analogy about an analogy that's 100% bullshit, okay?
Follow the link in the submission to see the following at the bottom of the page:
"Update: Palm Beach County has updated their numbers and added 91,802 absentee ballots and 1,041 provisional ballots. The vote totals for president increased by 1,543. To view an archived copy of the previous report, click here. While Palm Beach County appears to have accounted for the discrepancy, this underscores the flaws in the system and data compilation."
Luckily/. has the moderation system. In fact it is the perfect solution to what you have described. -1 offtopic will need to be given free reign in all topics other than Politics to correct abuses to the discussions. If the readers have any objectivity in them then moderation will work and offtopic rants about political opinions will show up next to l33t discussions about the best way to attack your isp for 'revenge'...
It's true. It's also true that European nations are responsible, directly responsible for nearly all of today's political and social problems in the world.
Over 200 years ago European nations began a policy of colonialism without regard to the impact it would have on those regions it colonized.
European nations began a policy of might makes right, military occupation of 60% of the world. Since then every conflict outside the two world wars has been a direct result of this policy's legacy. Every conflict has been one wherein the local population has had to throw off the chains of colonialism and it's consequences, including European sanctioned governments set up when the colonial power decided to pull out but maintain priority trading status and political influence. These governments were imposed upon the people of these nations for no reason other than maintaining European authority.
The policy continued after each of the world wars as well with European nations re-making national boundaries, creating nations out of disparate populations and controlling local governments in regions all around the world.
The only colonies exempt from this are the US and Canada... nations where the native populations were summarily displaced and almost completely exterminated.
The world outside of Europe was rudely and brutally thrust into the future at the point of a sword, on the other end of the cannon, their resources plundered, their cultures subverted, their people enslaved and marginalized. When will Europeans realize that THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE for nearly every conflict that has occurred in the last two centuries...
The United States stayed out of conflicts for the first hundred years as much as possible. We tried to stay out of conflicts in the last hundred years but Europe had screwed up the world too much to avoid getting involved if we wanted to participate in the global economy at all.
Feel justified?
If you're Canadien then you can take solace in the fact that you are still a European Commonwealth Colony and that all you did was commit genocide on Native americans the same as us US'ers.
Yes, actions do solve problems - WE understand that, which is why we like George W. Bush, he's an action star... unlike the leadership in the EU and the UN which seem to be incapable of taking any action whatsoever and appear to be more than happy to let things happen to them rather than take a course of action.
In the end we'll all just have to agree to disagree on what is important to us. I feel that making the world a better place is very important and that it is worth sacrificing to improve our world for future generations. Western Europeans seem to feel that ignoring the problems of the 2nd and 3rd world is important because they are afraid of getting their hands dirty and having to do some things they'd rather not do. People around the world who look to western europe for guidance and ethical/social authority seem to have adopted this opinion as well./rant over;-b
So anyways, how do you really feel about the United States? Rants are all good but they don't really seem to change anyones mind... well I suspect my rant didn't do a thing to change your mind.
Don't worry too much... I'm sure the approved method will involve billion dollar psychic amplifiers for decades while private commercial developers work on miniaturizing it and making it into viable off-the-shelf mix and match components;-p
Please... Everybody leaves main street rural USA to find work.
I'd also posit to say that minorities are just as discriminted against in large cities as anywhere else... but the descriminators are held to a higher standard of behavior in large cities for fear of recrimination and loss of substantial opportunity, whereas in small towns in rural areas there is less to lose and therefore less ability to enforce social mores.
In summary, one could not argue your statement... it is unsupportable.
Minorities took up residence in large cities during a time when racism and descrimination were broadly held institutions... back in the 20's and 30's and even earlier for various reasons that I won't go into because they are well known and were then world wide accepted practices. Since then they have created communities with great tradition and both good and bad circumstance. Those communities grew insularly and welcomed new members from the outside and became focal points of minority culture and heritage within the United States... black Americans, Puerto Ricans, Chinese, Indian, Persian etc. Hispanics from Mexico are newcomers at least outside of Callifornia and the Southwest.. they all have established strongholds within each major city...
I don't remember seeing too many Puerto Ricans in small town America... or Chinese... black Americans are unique in their history here, especially in the Southern States, but they aren't moving around too much.. Atlanta born black Americans tend to stay in Atlanta, same for other major cities in the south and same for most major cities in the north and west, ie: Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, St. Louis, etc.. their families moved there several generations ago and only in the last two generations has there been much movement away from these new 'family homes' as education and economic prosperity have begun to look like favorable and potential opportunities for those with the will to succeed.
You show your ignorance of social demographics and ethnic trends... are you simply repeating something you heard or is it something you assume to be true because it fits your 'defend the poor victims' world view?
Minority groups tend to cluster in larger cities looking for work there... so this also may be a bias in the direction of Democrat affiliation there.
I won't say whether minority groups are less or more educated or intelligent... probably less educated though certainly not less intelligent.
Larger cities also tend to have the largest number of foreign born citizens or 2nd generation immigrant citizens who are more likely to be influenced by world opinion and more specifically European opinion.
These factors added together should tend to add to the Democrat affiliation preponderence in large cities.
IQ is pretty much irrelevant when you talk about serious issues. It might be relevant to figuring out statistics data or designing a new gadget but those are not serious issues.
I personally have a high IQ but I don't rely on it to make decisions.. if I did I would be a cold heartless SOB and wouldn't have many friends. IQ helps you to manipulate people but it doesn't make for good conversation or fellowship, both of which are more important than whether or not you know more stuff or can put a 2500 piece puzzle together faster.
The exit polls have been looked over extensively and found to be time-biased towards different demographics. Early on many of them were more than 50% women and more than 50% democrat. The conjecture is that those two groups were on average able to go to the polls earlier in the day and had thrown off the exit polls early in the election process.
I could flame about house-wife democrats and democrats with no jobs but instead I'll just say that I agree that the answer was more than meek, it was weak.
There should have been a better answer but citing unofficial results as an indicator that election results may have been tampered with is just as weak a statement.
My Fiancee worked for Nordstroms for 3 years, Macy's for 1 year... sorry, I wouldn't call Wal-Mart a clothing store to say the least and this story doesn't mentioned going into a cut-rate department store.
I wouldn't expect to get a pair of $20 pants hemmed or tailored but if you are paying $50 or more you should expect to get it done for free. If you haven't ever asked then it's your own fault.
Also if you're only shopping discount I wouldn't assume a great level of service. You get what you pay for.
If the places that do have an alteration service are charging for it, I would ask for it free of charge or simply walk away. If they can get you to pay they will. Just try it, you'd be surprised what people will do if they think they're losing a sale.
It seems like people just are not aware that you can go to pretty much any clothing store and ask for your clothes to be tailored for free.
Yes, free. If you are paying then you are a sucker. Demand that the clothing you buy fits. Why else are you buying it? Go to a different store and ask up front if they offer free tailoring, if not tell them thanks but no thanks and see how quickly they will point you in the direction of their free tailoring service.
Didn't see a single mention of 'morality'.. though I did read some alternative accounts of life in Iraq that gives me hope for the future of the people who live there.
Just a quick aside... "our entire theory of knowledge" was created by people who believed in a God.
That said I agree that ID is not science, it is philosophy.
That said I think that philosophy should be taught beginning in 5th grade... but not just ID... also include aethesim, nihilsm, communism, freudian thought, plato and other philosophies... maybe even religion as philosophy? Really in the modern world religion is more of a philosophy than anything else right?
I won't assume you're talking about me...;-p but maybe just a little....
I think you're letting your prejudices regarding religion and specifically, Christianity get in the way of what you are reading.
Humans are amazing, and you can be a statistic if you'd like but I'd prefer to believe that we're a little more interesting than that.
The evolution of self-awareness which can not as yet be explained, we're working on it, is the single most amazing thing in the history of the universe as we have observed/recorded it, excepting only the evolution of life itself from inanimate chemicals to biological processes and the big bang or creation of the universe.
Again, I've mentioned in other posts.. your language is that of a creator, "no major flaws", "far from perfect", "good all round design".
Is this simply a lack of expressive capability on your part or do you think of the world in terms of it having been designed and put through quality control?
You really need to come up with some new terminology to explain your understanding of how the world works if you don't believe in a higher power... cause the terms you are using refer to purposeful decision making, outside of the forces of nature extra-natural or super-natural forces making 'design decisions' about how life has or will evolve, how we have and will evolve.
You talk about statistics selecting something... while artificial constructs used to make observations about natural processes are not cognizant and do not 'select' anything. I'm guessing that the words 'natural selection' are confusing you.
Additionally I have to point out that chance and statistics are one and the same. We say "1 chance in a million" or "not a chance" when we refer to the statistical likelihood of an event happening given the circumstances. So your statement "chance creates mutations, but statistics selects which one survives (over all)" could be re-written accurately as "statistics creates mutations, but chance selects which one survives (over all)" or either of the other permutations.
Just to be fair... nothing personal here, just providing a counterpoint that a belief in a higher power can incorporate science, evolution, stem cell research or any other hot button topic you want to throw in the ring... and it can do it without falling back on some magic moment of divinity.. and it can be intelligent and well thought out and based in logic and reason. What it can not incorporate is a blind acceptance that there is not a greater purpose to our existence.
How can someone who seeks truth simply accept that there is nothing more than what you can see ot touch or hear... do you refute quantum physics or the existence of gravity? We can not directly observe either phenomenon and only know them from their effects on a grand scale... do you deny them?
Can you say that God has any less evidence for existence? We also can not observe Him directly and we only know of Him from His effects on a grand scale... does it make Him any less real than a quark or a gluon? Talk about faith... how many people have ever even observed a gluon indirectly... how about dark matter which we know only from mathematical models that say it 'should' be there? There's a lot more evidence for God than there is for dark matter, yet in the scientific community the existence of dark matter is taken as a fact, because it 'should be there'.
We're still evolving - if we're still around in a millenia or two, hopefully we won't lose all of our useful adaptations.
I'd rather have this for my expensive sunglasses that always seem to be falling off my face, the table or otherwise exposed to scratching surfaces of all kinds... they're a whole lot more expensive to replace than CDs... but of course I'd want this on my iPod screen and laptop screen too.
Sit at the bar and strike up a conversation with some guy you'd never talk to under normal circumstances.. he or she is probably well-dressed with a big smile, a loud voice and plenty of fair weather friends around....
he/she probably isn't the one you're looking for but he/she probably knows someone who knows someone who might be interested...
It's called networking and all the MBAs are doing it these days... apparently it's a big hit in the business crowd. They say it's better than playing online games hours on end and they you meet more people who are over 20 years of age too... some are even graduates with real degrees.
Oh yeah, this works well for meeting girls too.
I know, I know it sounds utterly stupid, I mean what's the internet for if you're just going to go out and meet people in person... but hey, chat rooms haven't worked out so far so it might just be worth a try.
BTW, when you say "best design" what are you trying to say, cause it's not 'design' if there's no thought or purpose behind it. When people talk about natural designs or design in nature they are humanizing and anthropomorphizing nature itself. Nature doesn't design. people design. You very language implies that you do believe in a higher power... what gives?
Nature is the way it is because of interactions and forces, no thought no purpose... clouds don't choose the form they take, trees don't choose their shape, rocks don't choose to break down into sand or gravel... they interact with and are acted upon by each other and cosmic forces such as radiation from the sun over time.. entropy, not design. Unless you believe in a higher power that is.
I did read what you said... and now you've clarified your position.
Have you ever considered that becoming aware of a higher conciousness IS one of those things we figured out better than other species? It has been a part of human culture for tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years... planning for the afterlife, worhip of nature spirits (nature as intelligent entity other than ourselves), gods, goddesses, deities, idols, etc.
This is not a small localized phenomenon.. it is world wide through multiple independent cultures with many beginnings many evolutions in theory, in practice, philosophy and understanding. Guess we were just mistaken though cause after a little over 500 years of science we've got it all figured out now.
Evolution is an even younger theory of how the world as we know it came to be. Don't misunderstand me, it is a very good and very well-documented theory that is an awesome tool in furthering discovery not unlike taxonomy, physics, economics and the other academic disciplines which have all come about as a result of the scientific method in application to a more complete understanding of natural and artificial forces.
IF there is no design then it's still all chance though... yep, a good ol' self-perpetuating logic loop. Until you can explain what was here before the 'big-bang' or great expansion or whatever description you want to give the beginning of the universe as we know it, then it's all just chance that weak forces act the way they do and strong forces act the way they do and hydrogen bonds are both weak and strong and waves of energy propagate at a predetermined speed and amplitude and frequency determined by the original amount of matter in the universe and the fucking relationships that were established in that first instant of being and how they interacted over time as expansion occured and eventually came to be in the relative locations at the relative speeds with the relative amounts of potential energy turning into relative amounts of kinetic energy dissapating at relatively useful speeds of entropy, ad infinitum and somewhere in that soup of relativism based on some initial strange attractor of mass and energy and velocity and momentum, we came to be and came to see all those interactions and observe them and understand them and appreciate them for their infinite levels of beauty....
never mind, I should just eat and shit and reproduce like some dog or snake and maybe not eat and shit too much or there won't be any left for my kids... never mind looking for any reason why or how or what's next... never mind cause the dolphins will fix it all millions of years from now and maybe they'll have a better idea of what to do with their new consciousness...
If not for a belief in a higher power, no one would ever have gotten past hunting and gathering, though they would have an insanely scientific understanding of how every little molecule of their tiny little world worked.
--rant that might not fully apply to you---
I detest you small minded self-centered can't think beyond your own generation so called activists who in reality are more concerned about your own well-being than anything else... you're scared, just admit it. The world moves too fast, there's too much change and you can't handle it. Global economy got you flustered? Multi-national organizations make you feel small and powerless?
Want to know why? It's because you have no concept of anything bigger than yourselves. Every life counts, peace not war, save the forest...
-but lets go ahead and kill millions of potential lives, abort them cause no one wants them, it's not really a life...
-no more wars cause we already fought ours and got what we wanted so nobody else gets to...
-3rd world nations can't deforest their own land or strip mine their natural resources cause we did it to our land and look how far it got us...
it goes on and on.. the only apparent explanation is that people who are comfortable in their liv
Oh so somehow evolution is just for the benefit of us homo sapiens? Countless species have become extinct for various reasons.. mostly the inability to adapt... sometimes because they used up all the available resources. Why are we some damn special in the grand scheme of things?
That is the big question after all isn't it? Are we special or just another product of a slow methodical evolution begun millions of years ago without purpose or design.
If you believe there is a purpose or design then you must also believe in a higher order, a mystery of the divine, a story of creation... what that was/is/will be, we can only guess at... or make into religion.
otherwise you believe in chance or better yet you give in to a dumb reality of chance where things just happen for no apparent reason but since we're here and we are self-aware, why not make the most of it and live it up to the fullest... and let chance and evolution sort it out in the end.
"Ideally, I would like to see a president who is conservative when it comes to spending and liberal with social policies. However, this is never going to happen. There is too much bigotry in this world."
SO you're a disenfranchised Libertarian? Why don't you guys and gals go find someone within your ranks who is ELECTABLE and put them in the presidency? There seems to be enough support, just no organization.... 4 more years to do something for real...
Atheists which specifically promote anti-religious traditions are such a group and one which actively promotes universe as accident. They don't believe in spirit or higher consciousness or afterlife or collective unconscious or anything else greater than ourselves and the chaos of entropy with out direction.
Not all scientists are atheists and not all Christians are creationists.. we can leave it at that.
Science is getting closer and closer to understanding the genetic, environmental - biological and chemical constituents which influence your morals... you might want to take a closer look at that.
Morals aren't just a choice... they are the result of useful adaptations our species has adopted through evolution whether on an individual or societal level. Certain situations cause stress and release chemical signals from various organs that stimulate mental and physiological responses in our brain, body and mind... these are the raw materials for "morals" as well as "taboos" and other vague feelings toward behavioral self-direction. Society has codified these feelings through language so that we can all agree on what stresses justify what reactions and comparisons of behavior can be made and judgements taken regarding what resulting behaviors are allowed within our society and which are not allowed.
Science is in the process of re-writing those codifications based on direct observation of biology and chemistry rather than indirect observation of behavior itself... science may soon justify your morals after all.
Slashdot Mirror
Hey now, don't be insulting the parent post ;-p I mean, if you're gonna insult anyone, insult my post for being an analogy about an analogy that's 100% bullshit, okay?
Glad we got that all cleared up...
How about if you were given treatment for a lethal illness that guaranteed 90% chance of cure (not just survival) and 10% chance of death?
Follow the link in the submission to see the following at the bottom of the page:
"Update: Palm Beach County has updated their numbers and added 91,802 absentee ballots and 1,041 provisional ballots. The vote totals for president increased by 1,543. To view an archived copy of the previous report, click here. While Palm Beach County appears to have accounted for the discrepancy, this underscores the flaws in the system and data compilation."
Luckily /. has the moderation system. In fact it is the perfect solution to what you have described. -1 offtopic will need to be given free reign in all topics other than Politics to correct abuses to the discussions. If the readers have any objectivity in them then moderation will work and offtopic rants about political opinions will show up next to l33t discussions about the best way to attack your isp for 'revenge'...
It's true. It's also true that European nations are responsible, directly responsible for nearly all of today's political and social problems in the world.
/rant over ;-b
Over 200 years ago European nations began a policy of colonialism without regard to the impact it would have on those regions it colonized.
European nations began a policy of might makes right, military occupation of 60% of the world. Since then every conflict outside the two world wars has been a direct result of this policy's legacy. Every conflict has been one wherein the local population has had to throw off the chains of colonialism and it's consequences, including European sanctioned governments set up when the colonial power decided to pull out but maintain priority trading status and political influence. These governments were imposed upon the people of these nations for no reason other than maintaining European authority.
The policy continued after each of the world wars as well with European nations re-making national boundaries, creating nations out of disparate populations and controlling local governments in regions all around the world.
The only colonies exempt from this are the US and Canada... nations where the native populations were summarily displaced and almost completely exterminated.
The world outside of Europe was rudely and brutally thrust into the future at the point of a sword, on the other end of the cannon, their resources plundered, their cultures subverted, their people enslaved and marginalized. When will Europeans realize that THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE for nearly every conflict that has occurred in the last two centuries...
The United States stayed out of conflicts for the first hundred years as much as possible. We tried to stay out of conflicts in the last hundred years but Europe had screwed up the world too much to avoid getting involved if we wanted to participate in the global economy at all.
Feel justified?
If you're Canadien then you can take solace in the fact that you are still a European Commonwealth Colony and that all you did was commit genocide on Native americans the same as us US'ers.
Yes, actions do solve problems - WE understand that, which is why we like George W. Bush, he's an action star... unlike the leadership in the EU and the UN which seem to be incapable of taking any action whatsoever and appear to be more than happy to let things happen to them rather than take a course of action.
In the end we'll all just have to agree to disagree on what is important to us. I feel that making the world a better place is very important and that it is worth sacrificing to improve our world for future generations. Western Europeans seem to feel that ignoring the problems of the 2nd and 3rd world is important because they are afraid of getting their hands dirty and having to do some things they'd rather not do. People around the world who look to western europe for guidance and ethical/social authority seem to have adopted this opinion as well.
So anyways, how do you really feel about the United States? Rants are all good but they don't really seem to change anyones mind... well I suspect my rant didn't do a thing to change your mind.
Don't worry too much... I'm sure the approved method will involve billion dollar psychic amplifiers for decades while private commercial developers work on miniaturizing it and making it into viable off-the-shelf mix and match components ;-p
Please... Everybody leaves main street rural USA to find work.
I'd also posit to say that minorities are just as discriminted against in large cities as anywhere else... but the descriminators are held to a higher standard of behavior in large cities for fear of recrimination and loss of substantial opportunity, whereas in small towns in rural areas there is less to lose and therefore less ability to enforce social mores.
In summary, one could not argue your statement... it is unsupportable.
Minorities took up residence in large cities during a time when racism and descrimination were broadly held institutions... back in the 20's and 30's and even earlier for various reasons that I won't go into because they are well known and were then world wide accepted practices. Since then they have created communities with great tradition and both good and bad circumstance. Those communities grew insularly and welcomed new members from the outside and became focal points of minority culture and heritage within the United States... black Americans, Puerto Ricans, Chinese, Indian, Persian etc. Hispanics from Mexico are newcomers at least outside of Callifornia and the Southwest.. they all have established strongholds within each major city...
I don't remember seeing too many Puerto Ricans in small town America... or Chinese... black Americans are unique in their history here, especially in the Southern States, but they aren't moving around too much.. Atlanta born black Americans tend to stay in Atlanta, same for other major cities in the south and same for most major cities in the north and west, ie: Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, St. Louis, etc.. their families moved there several generations ago and only in the last two generations has there been much movement away from these new 'family homes' as education and economic prosperity have begun to look like favorable and potential opportunities for those with the will to succeed.
You show your ignorance of social demographics and ethnic trends... are you simply repeating something you heard or is it something you assume to be true because it fits your 'defend the poor victims' world view?
Minority groups tend to cluster in larger cities looking for work there... so this also may be a bias in the direction of Democrat affiliation there.
I won't say whether minority groups are less or more educated or intelligent... probably less educated though certainly not less intelligent.
Larger cities also tend to have the largest number of foreign born citizens or 2nd generation immigrant citizens who are more likely to be influenced by world opinion and more specifically European opinion.
These factors added together should tend to add to the Democrat affiliation preponderence in large cities.
IQ is pretty much irrelevant when you talk about serious issues. It might be relevant to figuring out statistics data or designing a new gadget but those are not serious issues.
I personally have a high IQ but I don't rely on it to make decisions.. if I did I would be a cold heartless SOB and wouldn't have many friends. IQ helps you to manipulate people but it doesn't make for good conversation or fellowship, both of which are more important than whether or not you know more stuff or can put a 2500 piece puzzle together faster.
The exit polls have been looked over extensively and found to be time-biased towards different demographics. Early on many of them were more than 50% women and more than 50% democrat. The conjecture is that those two groups were on average able to go to the polls earlier in the day and had thrown off the exit polls early in the election process.
I could flame about house-wife democrats and democrats with no jobs but instead I'll just say that I agree that the answer was more than meek, it was weak.
There should have been a better answer but citing unofficial results as an indicator that election results may have been tampered with is just as weak a statement.
My Fiancee worked for Nordstroms for 3 years, Macy's for 1 year... sorry, I wouldn't call Wal-Mart a clothing store to say the least and this story doesn't mentioned going into a cut-rate department store.
I wouldn't expect to get a pair of $20 pants hemmed or tailored but if you are paying $50 or more you should expect to get it done for free. If you haven't ever asked then it's your own fault.
Also if you're only shopping discount I wouldn't assume a great level of service. You get what you pay for.
If the places that do have an alteration service are charging for it, I would ask for it free of charge or simply walk away. If they can get you to pay they will. Just try it, you'd be surprised what people will do if they think they're losing a sale.
It seems like people just are not aware that you can go to pretty much any clothing store and ask for your clothes to be tailored for free.
Yes, free. If you are paying then you are a sucker. Demand that the clothing you buy fits. Why else are you buying it? Go to a different store and ask up front if they offer free tailoring, if not tell them thanks but no thanks and see how quickly they will point you in the direction of their free tailoring service.
BTW I love Futurama...
You should probably adopt this as your sig:
"Yeah, I know. Fucking pedants suck all the joy out of life. w00t!"
I'm fairly certain it will represent you fairly;-p
Only thing I've read so far is this:
t m
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-20041024.h
Didn't see a single mention of 'morality'.. though I did read some alternative accounts of life in Iraq that gives me hope for the future of the people who live there.
Just a quick aside... "our entire theory of knowledge" was created by people who believed in a God.
That said I agree that ID is not science, it is philosophy.
That said I think that philosophy should be taught beginning in 5th grade... but not just ID... also include aethesim, nihilsm, communism, freudian thought, plato and other philosophies... maybe even religion as philosophy? Really in the modern world religion is more of a philosophy than anything else right?
This may very well be the only truly Insightful comment in this discussion. I applaud you for your Insight!
Well spoken.
I won't assume you're talking about me... ;-p but maybe just a little....
I think you're letting your prejudices regarding religion and specifically, Christianity get in the way of what you are reading.
Humans are amazing, and you can be a statistic if you'd like but I'd prefer to believe that we're a little more interesting than that.
The evolution of self-awareness which can not as yet be explained, we're working on it, is the single most amazing thing in the history of the universe as we have observed/recorded it, excepting only the evolution of life itself from inanimate chemicals to biological processes and the big bang or creation of the universe.
Again, I've mentioned in other posts.. your language is that of a creator, "no major flaws", "far from perfect", "good all round design".
Is this simply a lack of expressive capability on your part or do you think of the world in terms of it having been designed and put through quality control?
You really need to come up with some new terminology to explain your understanding of how the world works if you don't believe in a higher power... cause the terms you are using refer to purposeful decision making, outside of the forces of nature extra-natural or super-natural forces making 'design decisions' about how life has or will evolve, how we have and will evolve.
You talk about statistics selecting something... while artificial constructs used to make observations about natural processes are not cognizant and do not 'select' anything. I'm guessing that the words 'natural selection' are confusing you.
Additionally I have to point out that chance and statistics are one and the same. We say "1 chance in a million" or "not a chance" when we refer to the statistical likelihood of an event happening given the circumstances. So your statement "chance creates mutations, but statistics selects which one survives (over all)" could be re-written accurately as "statistics creates mutations, but chance selects which one survives (over all)" or either of the other permutations.
Just to be fair... nothing personal here, just providing a counterpoint that a belief in a higher power can incorporate science, evolution, stem cell research or any other hot button topic you want to throw in the ring... and it can do it without falling back on some magic moment of divinity.. and it can be intelligent and well thought out and based in logic and reason. What it can not incorporate is a blind acceptance that there is not a greater purpose to our existence.
How can someone who seeks truth simply accept that there is nothing more than what you can see ot touch or hear... do you refute quantum physics or the existence of gravity? We can not directly observe either phenomenon and only know them from their effects on a grand scale... do you deny them?
Can you say that God has any less evidence for existence? We also can not observe Him directly and we only know of Him from His effects on a grand scale... does it make Him any less real than a quark or a gluon? Talk about faith... how many people have ever even observed a gluon indirectly... how about dark matter which we know only from mathematical models that say it 'should' be there? There's a lot more evidence for God than there is for dark matter, yet in the scientific community the existence of dark matter is taken as a fact, because it 'should be there'.
We're still evolving - if we're still around in a millenia or two, hopefully we won't lose all of our useful adaptations.
I'd rather have this for my expensive sunglasses that always seem to be falling off my face, the table or otherwise exposed to scratching surfaces of all kinds... they're a whole lot more expensive to replace than CDs... but of course I'd want this on my iPod screen and laptop screen too.
Sit at the bar and strike up a conversation with some guy you'd never talk to under normal circumstances.. he or she is probably well-dressed with a big smile, a loud voice and plenty of fair weather friends around....
he/she probably isn't the one you're looking for but he/she probably knows someone who knows someone who might be interested...
It's called networking and all the MBAs are doing it these days... apparently it's a big hit in the business crowd. They say it's better than playing online games hours on end and they you meet more people who are over 20 years of age too... some are even graduates with real degrees.
Oh yeah, this works well for meeting girls too.
I know, I know it sounds utterly stupid, I mean what's the internet for if you're just going to go out and meet people in person... but hey, chat rooms haven't worked out so far so it might just be worth a try.
BTW, when you say "best design" what are you trying to say, cause it's not 'design' if there's no thought or purpose behind it. When people talk about natural designs or design in nature they are humanizing and anthropomorphizing nature itself. Nature doesn't design. people design. You very language implies that you do believe in a higher power... what gives?
Nature is the way it is because of interactions and forces, no thought no purpose... clouds don't choose the form they take, trees don't choose their shape, rocks don't choose to break down into sand or gravel... they interact with and are acted upon by each other and cosmic forces such as radiation from the sun over time.. entropy, not design. Unless you believe in a higher power that is.
I did read what you said... and now you've clarified your position.
Have you ever considered that becoming aware of a higher conciousness IS one of those things we figured out better than other species? It has been a part of human culture for tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years... planning for the afterlife, worhip of nature spirits (nature as intelligent entity other than ourselves), gods, goddesses, deities, idols, etc.
This is not a small localized phenomenon.. it is world wide through multiple independent cultures with many beginnings many evolutions in theory, in practice, philosophy and understanding. Guess we were just mistaken though cause after a little over 500 years of science we've got it all figured out now.
Evolution is an even younger theory of how the world as we know it came to be. Don't misunderstand me, it is a very good and very well-documented theory that is an awesome tool in furthering discovery not unlike taxonomy, physics, economics and the other academic disciplines which have all come about as a result of the scientific method in application to a more complete understanding of natural and artificial forces.
IF there is no design then it's still all chance though... yep, a good ol' self-perpetuating logic loop. Until you can explain what was here before the 'big-bang' or great expansion or whatever description you want to give the beginning of the universe as we know it, then it's all just chance that weak forces act the way they do and strong forces act the way they do and hydrogen bonds are both weak and strong and waves of energy propagate at a predetermined speed and amplitude and frequency determined by the original amount of matter in the universe and the fucking relationships that were established in that first instant of being and how they interacted over time as expansion occured and eventually came to be in the relative locations at the relative speeds with the relative amounts of potential energy turning into relative amounts of kinetic energy dissapating at relatively useful speeds of entropy, ad infinitum and somewhere in that soup of relativism based on some initial strange attractor of mass and energy and velocity and momentum, we came to be and came to see all those interactions and observe them and understand them and appreciate them for their infinite levels of beauty....
never mind, I should just eat and shit and reproduce like some dog or snake and maybe not eat and shit too much or there won't be any left for my kids... never mind looking for any reason why or how or what's next... never mind cause the dolphins will fix it all millions of years from now and maybe they'll have a better idea of what to do with their new consciousness...
If not for a belief in a higher power, no one would ever have gotten past hunting and gathering, though they would have an insanely scientific understanding of how every little molecule of their tiny little world worked.
--rant that might not fully apply to you---
I detest you small minded self-centered can't think beyond your own generation so called activists who in reality are more concerned about your own well-being than anything else... you're scared, just admit it. The world moves too fast, there's too much change and you can't handle it. Global economy got you flustered? Multi-national organizations make you feel small and powerless?
Want to know why? It's because you have no concept of anything bigger than yourselves. Every life counts, peace not war, save the forest...
-but lets go ahead and kill millions of potential lives, abort them cause no one wants them, it's not really a life...
-no more wars cause we already fought ours and got what we wanted so nobody else gets to...
-3rd world nations can't deforest their own land or strip mine their natural resources cause we did it to our land and look how far it got us...
it goes on and on.. the only apparent explanation is that people who are comfortable in their liv
Oh so somehow evolution is just for the benefit of us homo sapiens? Countless species have become extinct for various reasons.. mostly the inability to adapt... sometimes because they used up all the available resources. Why are we some damn special in the grand scheme of things?
That is the big question after all isn't it? Are we special or just another product of a slow methodical evolution begun millions of years ago without purpose or design.
If you believe there is a purpose or design then you must also believe in a higher order, a mystery of the divine, a story of creation... what that was/is/will be, we can only guess at... or make into religion.
otherwise you believe in chance or better yet you give in to a dumb reality of chance where things just happen for no apparent reason but since we're here and we are self-aware, why not make the most of it and live it up to the fullest... and let chance and evolution sort it out in the end.
"Ideally, I would like to see a president who is conservative when it comes to spending and liberal with social policies. However, this is never going to happen. There is too much bigotry in this world."
SO you're a disenfranchised Libertarian? Why don't you guys and gals go find someone within your ranks who is ELECTABLE and put them in the presidency? There seems to be enough support, just no organization.... 4 more years to do something for real...
Atheists which specifically promote anti-religious traditions are such a group and one which actively promotes universe as accident. They don't believe in spirit or higher consciousness or afterlife or collective unconscious or anything else greater than ourselves and the chaos of entropy with out direction.
Not all scientists are atheists and not all Christians are creationists.. we can leave it at that.
Science is getting closer and closer to understanding the genetic, environmental - biological and chemical constituents which influence your morals... you might want to take a closer look at that.
Morals aren't just a choice... they are the result of useful adaptations our species has adopted through evolution whether on an individual or societal level. Certain situations cause stress and release chemical signals from various organs that stimulate mental and physiological responses in our brain, body and mind... these are the raw materials for "morals" as well as "taboos" and other vague feelings toward behavioral self-direction. Society has codified these feelings through language so that we can all agree on what stresses justify what reactions and comparisons of behavior can be made and judgements taken regarding what resulting behaviors are allowed within our society and which are not allowed.
Science is in the process of re-writing those codifications based on direct observation of biology and chemistry rather than indirect observation of behavior itself... science may soon justify your morals after all.