Dude, awesome comment ! In fact one of the best in my last 10 years of slashdot experience !! Last sentence is probably the best single line I have ever read in slashdot.
> SAMBA 4 as a simple directory replacement for Active Directory is no where near ready.
Its in last or second last RC stage right now and final version is expected by end of this month
> But, even if it was close, it would still be lacking "minor" things like a dead simple and reliable GUI that even end users can use
Integration with Zentyal (www.zentyal.org) is already in place and it has a "dead simple" GUI for every common tasks required by the admins
> It would still lack integration into third party application capabilities for Share Point and Exchange-like apps
Based on samba4, SOGo(www.sogo.nu) has released sogo version 2 which is a feature-by-feature replacement for exchange and has native outlook compatibility. If this is integrated with Zentyal, it should be a perfect replacement for AD/Exchange combination
> Even if SAMBA 4 were vastly superior technically, it would still have no chance against the integration and ease of use that Active Directory has over the most prevalent and widely used operating systems and applications on the planet.
You forget one very important point here. Along with all the deployments and usage of AD, there are lot of problems too like stability, virus, worms, license etc. People are desperately looking for an alternative based on Linux. If they can get something solving these core issues, they are ready to make "compromise" on some peripheral features and problems.
As someone who has used and deployed Zentyal for many customers, I have to say that your conclusion derived from reading the forum thread is terribly wrong! Some of our Zentyal implementations have more than 1000 outlook users and are working without any problem. Configuration was not very difficult in any stretch of the word. Right now, I am testing the latest version of zentyal which includes samba4. One problem I see with samba4 in general is that documentation is very very scarce. For e.g, I want to integrate SOGo 2 groupware( which has built in, native outlook support using Microsoft protocols) with Zentyal and the samba4 of Zentyal. But I don't see any documentation in zentyal, sogo or samba web site regarding how to query/manipulate the built in LDAP server of samba4. If I can do that, I can offer a complete exchange replacement for the customers. The beauty of Zentyal is that complete administration of the system is using a very attractive and powerful web interface.
Just google for Indian Information Technology act amendments 2008 and read it yourself. It is much worse than any of you even think. Probably the worst IT act in the world !
If you are lazy to read the whole stuff, just read my personal blog about the same http://nasirudheen.blogspot.com/2010/02/in-name-of-terrorists.html
Were all the biggest terrorists of past century Engineers ? Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Bush.... I dont think so . These were the REAL terrorists who dealt with whole sale terrorism. They have killed more people than any other terrorists anytime in the history. But most of these so called "Engineer terrorists" are involved in retail terrorism and the effect was marginal comparing to the former.
> As far as non-north-american countries go - the UAE is very progressive
Could you please tell me what do you mean by "Progressive" ? . Coz, I have been living in many countries of Middle East for years and this includes UAE also and they all are same more or less. Like other countries, UAE has the following,
-- Family dictatorships which have absolute control about every element of the society and economy. -- No Democracy in any tangible meaning of that term -- Absolutely no freedom of expression(UAE does not even allow the media to give true reports about the recession which has affected the country more than any other country in the world !) -- Worst rules and laws which are inhumane to say the least.
Now unlike other countries in the region, UAE has the following,
-- Easier access to prostitution & alcohol
Is this one point is what you mean by being "Progressive" ? If something else, please let me know as I have not experienced anything else in my stay here. I do admit that specifically in the case of Saudi, things are even worse as women are not allowed to have their choice of dress or job. If there is any country in the region which has some elements of "progressiveness", its Iran whom we all love to bash.
> Every "election" that happens, candidates are screened for loyalty to that unelected guy and Islam, if found not loyal enough, they are barred. And democracy is not just about elections.
Then how come candidates like Mousavi came to election and won the second place ?
> Iran used to be a quasi-democracy, after the recent "election" (read coup) Khamenei gave a big fuck you to people and said we're not even going to bother counting votes anymore.
Show me solid evidence like international observers findings for the "coup" in election . Then I would believe you. Because frankly speaking, I have not seen anything other than reports about "protests"
> Iraq was technically a democracy as well. It's just that Saddam happened to get 100% of the vote every time.
Iran democracy is way better than Iraq(old) one. For e.g even now the candidates who are dead against president Nejad were allowed to contest. And as I said in previous post, other countries like Saudi have NO election at all ! They have even worse filtering of internet. I am typing this from Saudi where even some of google pages are blocked(like language tools). What is the point in selling everything to these countries and bitching against selling something to Iran ?
> "Democracy" isn't the first word to come to my head when describing Iran... the recent events have done nothing to suggest otherwise.
Thats because western media are showing a very biased story of the Iran issues. Were the western reporters and observers able to see any solid evidence of rigging the election ? I doubt. The reason Nejad won the election with such a huge margin is because of his popularity among rural mass. The so called "reformist's" influence is confined to Tehran and surrounding areas only.
Iran, regardless of all the shortcomings and issues IS a democracy. Most of the other countries in gulf region(Like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) are under family dictatorships and worse tyrannies. And US/EU governments and corporations sell everything including weapons to them. I think this is far worse than selling technology to Iran.
> This would be a demographic disaster for Israel and the Israelis would never go for it
It would be a demographic disaster for Israel because they have been expanding their borders by occupying others land.
> It would be the equivalent of the United States having to absorb 150,000,000 new people
No its NOT. US has never occupied its neighbors land and expanded its borders. US has done many bad things. But it has not expanded its border by occupying other's land. So your comparison is absolutely wrong.
> No, it's really not [wikipedia.org] that simple. If it was that simple it would already be solved. The settlers aren't particularly popular in Israel and there'd be no point to the occupation if the Arabs weren't busy conducting terrorist attacks against Israel.
I still don't understand why is it not simple.And nowhere in your posts, you explain why is it not simple. If you have engaged in occupation, then there is no other solution than ending it completely. You can never ever live peacefully without doing that. Thats what we are seeing in the forms of rockets and suicide bombs. Whether settlers are popular in Israel or not is not relevant. What is important is Israel as a state engaged in settlement and occupation and they are not sleeping peacefully because of that.Though that doesnt mean that I agree with all the response it received for it's activity.
Regarding your evidence, one(in Israel) is official government activity and its EXPANDING its border by doing this(kicking out Palestines and settlement) where as in Arabs countries it was not official(though some acts from states have helped it) and Arabs are not expanding their border by doing this. But still, I absolutely condemn any mistreatment of Jews(or anyone) by anyone. That includes what seems to have happened these Arab countries.In many cases Zionist movement was the catalyst for the exodus(from your link only). But in not a single case of Palestine displacement was caused by any such movement. To sump up, I repeat very first argument in this thread. The solution is simple if Israel is willing to roll back complete settlement and illegal occupation and ask the Arab/neighboring countries to give a written UN mediated assurance for peace in return.
1. If Israel is ready to have comprehensive peace for a complete withdrawal from all the occupied territories, why dont they say that ? that will give them solid credibility.
2. Where is the evidence to your allegations that many jews were kicked out of their home in neighboring countries ?
> that given the amount of help that Gaza gets from them, it would have been cheaper simply to relocate the entire Gaza population into any of those countries. There is so much unused territory, that rationally speaking, the continuation of this conflict makes no sense.
Yes ! we can extend your peace formula for all the conflicts in world and relocate people who are kicked out of their home to some other unused land somewhere else. Good right?
> You call the Israeli Labor and Kadima parties extremists? Seriously?
Wasn't here any illegal settling(i.e kicking out Palestines out of their home) under any of these ? Wasn't there any illegal occupation under these people ? for me, it qualifies them to be called as extremists.
> If it wasn't for the distraction of "Palestinian suffering" the Arab leaders might actually have to answer some tough questions at home. Nothing better to distract a populace from your own corruption and oppression than to blame it all on some external (real or imagined) enemy.
This is the key point. Palestine people have suffered because of these family dictators called Arab leaders(who are absolutely controlled by US). But its strange that people take these Arab leaders stupidity as an excuse for Israel to do every inhuman act and occupation against people of Palestine.
> The Arabs refused to accept the partition and decided to contest it militarily. Israel soundly defeated them on the field of battle and we've been living with the consequences ever since.
Israel had occupation agenda from day one. Otherwise, why can't they say that they are ready for a total withdrawal from all occupied land for complete(written) peace agreement with all the neighbors. If they say anything like this, it would give them some element of credibility rather saying craps like "promised land" and "Arabs attacked us and lost so we can kick out every Palestine out there out of their home"
--How have people who made JBoss, MySQL, KVM all have made money (Huge money actually) when all these products are GPL ? This is beside the obvious and easy option of selling support.Look at RedHat. CentOS is selling perfect clone of RedHat and still they make money. There are hell lot of ways to make money of free software and many guys have proven this. Still people continue this FUD. Of course there are companies which fail with free software oriented business model. Just like there are companies which fail with proprietary business model too.
How did JBoss, KVM team made money out of free softwares they created ? How did MySQL team earned money when SUN bought them ? There are numerous ways to make money out free software until and unless you are hell bent on making money out of making it proprietary.
> There will be people who want to keep credit for their work, people who want to make money off of their work, and they do not want to make money supporting their software.
Each and everyone of the above is possible with Free software too.
> Might I add that the patent protection deal with Microsoft, despite something I dont personally agree with has actually been helpful to get Linux into the places that have already bought Microsoft's FUD campaign, increasing Linux's market share in places it proberbly wouldn't have.
You are equating success with market share ALONE. While companies like Microsoft believe in this , FLOSS is altogether different.
Slashdot Mirror
Dude, awesome comment ! In fact one of the best in my last 10 years of slashdot experience !! Last sentence is probably the best single line I have ever read in slashdot.
> SAMBA 4 as a simple directory replacement for Active Directory is no where near ready.
Its in last or second last RC stage right now and final version is expected by end of this month
> But, even if it was close, it would still be lacking "minor" things like a dead simple and reliable GUI that even end users can use
Integration with Zentyal (www.zentyal.org) is already in place and it has a "dead simple" GUI for every common tasks required by the admins
> It would still lack integration into third party application capabilities for Share Point and Exchange-like apps
Based on samba4, SOGo(www.sogo.nu) has released sogo version 2 which is a feature-by-feature replacement for exchange and has native outlook compatibility. If this is integrated with Zentyal, it should be a perfect replacement for AD/Exchange combination
> Even if SAMBA 4 were vastly superior technically, it would still have no chance against the integration and ease of use that Active Directory has over the most prevalent and widely used operating systems and applications on the planet.
You forget one very important point here. Along with all the deployments and usage of AD, there are lot of problems too like stability, virus, worms, license etc. People are desperately looking for an alternative based on Linux. If they can get something solving these core issues, they are ready to make "compromise" on some peripheral features and problems.
As someone who has used and deployed Zentyal for many customers, I have to say that your conclusion derived from reading the forum thread is terribly wrong! Some of our Zentyal implementations have more than 1000 outlook users and are working without any problem. Configuration was not very difficult in any stretch of the word. Right now, I am testing the latest version of zentyal which includes samba4. One problem I see with samba4 in general is that documentation is very very scarce. For e.g, I want to integrate SOGo 2 groupware( which has built in, native outlook support using Microsoft protocols) with Zentyal and the samba4 of Zentyal. But I don't see any documentation in zentyal, sogo or samba web site regarding how to query/manipulate the built in LDAP server of samba4. If I can do that, I can offer a complete exchange replacement for the customers. The beauty of Zentyal is that complete administration of the system is using a very attractive and powerful web interface.
Just google for Indian Information Technology act amendments 2008 and read it yourself. It is much worse than any of you even think. Probably the worst IT act in the world ! If you are lazy to read the whole stuff, just read my personal blog about the same http://nasirudheen.blogspot.com/2010/02/in-name-of-terrorists.html
Were all the biggest terrorists of past century Engineers ? Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Bush.... I dont think so . These were the REAL terrorists who dealt with whole sale terrorism. They have killed more people than any other terrorists anytime in the history. But most of these so called "Engineer terrorists" are involved in retail terrorism and the effect was marginal comparing to the former.
> "this means they can do a surprise inspection on our premises!"
Same is true with almost all of the proprietary licenses too. They can do a surprise inspection. So your customer would be terrified either
> As far as non-north-american countries go - the UAE is very progressive
Could you please tell me what do you mean by "Progressive" ? . Coz, I have been living in many countries of Middle East for years and this includes UAE also and they all are same more or less. Like other countries, UAE has the following,
-- Family dictatorships which have absolute control about every element of the society and economy.
-- No Democracy in any tangible meaning of that term
-- Absolutely no freedom of expression(UAE does not even allow the media to give true reports about the recession which has affected the country more than any other country in the world !)
-- Worst rules and laws which are inhumane to say the least.
Now unlike other countries in the region, UAE has the following,
-- Easier access to prostitution & alcohol
Is this one point is what you mean by being "Progressive" ? If something else, please let me know as I have not experienced anything else in my stay here. I do admit that specifically in the case of Saudi, things are even worse as women are not allowed to have their choice of dress or job. If there is any country in the region which has some elements of "progressiveness", its Iran whom we all love to bash.
> Every "election" that happens, candidates are screened for loyalty to that unelected guy and Islam, if found not loyal enough, they are barred. And democracy is not just about elections.
Then how come candidates like Mousavi came to election and won the second place ?
> Iran used to be a quasi-democracy, after the recent "election" (read coup) Khamenei gave a big fuck you to people and said we're not even going to bother counting votes anymore.
Show me solid evidence like international observers findings for the "coup" in election . Then I would believe you. Because frankly speaking, I have not seen anything other than reports about "protests"
> Iraq was technically a democracy as well. It's just that Saddam happened to get 100% of the vote every time.
Iran democracy is way better than Iraq(old) one. For e.g even now the candidates who are dead against president Nejad were allowed to contest. And as I said in previous post, other countries like Saudi have NO election at all ! They have even worse filtering of internet. I am typing this from Saudi where even some of google pages are blocked(like language tools). What is the point in selling everything to these countries and bitching against selling something to Iran ?
> "Democracy" isn't the first word to come to my head when describing Iran... the recent events have done nothing to suggest otherwise.
Thats because western media are showing a very biased story of the Iran issues. Were the western reporters and observers able to see any solid evidence of rigging the election ? I doubt. The reason Nejad won the election with such a huge margin is because of his popularity among rural mass. The so called "reformist's" influence is confined to Tehran and surrounding areas only.
Iran, regardless of all the shortcomings and issues IS a democracy. Most of the other countries in gulf region(Like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) are under family dictatorships and worse tyrannies. And US/EU governments and corporations sell everything including weapons to them. I think this is far worse than selling technology to Iran.
> This would be a demographic disaster for Israel and the Israelis would never go for it
It would be a demographic disaster for Israel because they have been expanding their borders by occupying others land.
> It would be the equivalent of the United States having to absorb 150,000,000 new people
No its NOT. US has never occupied its neighbors land and expanded its borders. US has done many bad things. But it has not expanded its border by occupying other's land. So your comparison is absolutely wrong.
> No, it's really not [wikipedia.org] that simple. If it was that simple it would already be solved. The settlers aren't particularly popular in Israel and there'd be no point to the occupation if the Arabs weren't busy conducting terrorist attacks against Israel.
I still don't understand why is it not simple.And nowhere in your posts, you explain why is it not simple. If you have engaged in occupation, then there is no other solution than ending it completely. You can never ever live peacefully without doing that. Thats what we are seeing in the forms of rockets and suicide bombs. Whether settlers are popular in Israel or not is not relevant. What is important is Israel as a state engaged in settlement and occupation and they are not sleeping peacefully because of that.Though that doesnt mean that I agree with all the response it received for it's activity.
You have still not answered to the first one.
Regarding your evidence, one(in Israel) is official government activity and its EXPANDING its border by doing this(kicking out Palestines and settlement) where as in Arabs countries it was not official(though some acts from states have helped it) and Arabs are not expanding their border by doing this. But still, I absolutely condemn any mistreatment of Jews(or anyone) by anyone. That includes what seems to have happened these Arab countries.In many cases Zionist movement was the catalyst for the exodus(from your link only). But in not a single case of Palestine displacement was caused by any such movement. To sump up, I repeat very first argument in this thread. The solution is simple if Israel is willing to roll back complete settlement and illegal occupation and ask the Arab/neighboring countries to give a written UN mediated assurance for peace in return.
Sir, you dont answer to my question
1. If Israel is ready to have comprehensive peace for a complete withdrawal from all the occupied territories, why dont they say that ? that will give them solid credibility.
2. Where is the evidence to your allegations that many jews were kicked out of their home in neighboring countries ?
> that given the amount of help that Gaza gets from them, it would have been cheaper simply to relocate the entire Gaza population into any of those countries. There is so much unused territory, that rationally speaking, the continuation of this conflict makes no sense.
Yes ! we can extend your peace formula for all the conflicts in world and relocate people who are kicked out of their home to some other unused land somewhere else. Good right?
> You call the Israeli Labor and Kadima parties extremists? Seriously?
Wasn't here any illegal settling(i.e kicking out Palestines out of their home) under any of these ? Wasn't there any illegal occupation under these people ? for me, it qualifies them to be called as extremists.
> If it wasn't for the distraction of "Palestinian suffering" the Arab leaders might actually have to answer some tough questions at home. Nothing better to distract a populace from your own corruption and oppression than to blame it all on some external (real or imagined) enemy.
This is the key point. Palestine people have suffered because of these family dictators called Arab leaders(who are absolutely controlled by US). But its strange that people take these Arab leaders stupidity as an excuse for Israel to do every inhuman act and occupation against people of Palestine.
> The Arabs refused to accept the partition and decided to contest it militarily. Israel soundly defeated them on the field of battle and we've been living with the consequences ever since.
Israel had occupation agenda from day one. Otherwise, why can't they say that they are ready for a total withdrawal from all occupied land for complete(written) peace agreement with all the neighbors. If they say anything like this, it would give them some element of credibility rather saying craps like "promised land" and "Arabs attacked us and lost so we can kick out every Palestine out there out of their home"
> They wouldn't be under siege if they hadn't elected a movement whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
They call for the destruction of Israel in present form because it has occupied a lot of other's land and kicked a lot from their home.
> If you were Israel would you want to make it easy for Hamas to smuggle in offensive weaponry?
If you were kicked out of your home, wouldn't you fight against the occupier ? or just sit idle and pray for him ?
I have replied to this earlier, will repeat.
--How have people who made JBoss, MySQL, KVM all have made money (Huge money actually) when all these products are GPL ? This is beside the obvious and easy option of selling support.Look at RedHat. CentOS is selling perfect clone of RedHat and still they make money. There are hell lot of ways to make money of free software and many guys have proven this. Still people continue this FUD. Of course there are companies which fail with free software oriented business model. Just like there are companies which fail with proprietary business model too.
Just to add to the list..
How did JBoss, KVM team made money out of free softwares they created ? How did MySQL team earned money when SUN bought them ? There are numerous ways to make money out free software until and unless you are hell bent on making money out of making it proprietary.
>Do you mind providing some good examples of how this can be done?
One by one,
>There will be people who want to keep credit for their work,
Copyright notices which is there on almost all free software keeps the credit with the creator. You think Linus doesn't get credit for his work ?
> people who want to make money off of their work, and they do not want to make money supporting their software.
Writing patches, custom modules, training.....etc. Of course, this is all besides the main way of making money out of free software which is service.
Just to add a personal note, I am a sys admin working on Free softwares almost exclusively and I make good amount of money.
> There will be people who want to keep credit for their work, people who want to make money off of their work, and they do not want to make money supporting their software.
Each and everyone of the above is possible with Free software too.
> Might I add that the patent protection deal with Microsoft, despite something I dont personally agree with has actually been helpful to get Linux into the places that have already bought Microsoft's FUD campaign, increasing Linux's market share in places it proberbly wouldn't have.
You are equating success with market share ALONE. While companies like Microsoft believe in this , FLOSS is altogether different.
(Stupid) Userful Bash Tricks ???