That's interesting. There have been a couple of complaints on Ed Foster's Gripe Line that said Cisco was demanding the software license fees just because the customer installed the used router (and the customer already had a support agreement with Cisco). I suppose Cisco could claim that the used equipment somehow added to their support burden, but it still seems shady to me.
In many ways Cisco *is* a victim here. They didn't design the router, and I'm reasonably sure that Cisco's development proceedures would have prevented such a gaffe from happening.
Heh. If Cisco had followed their usual development procedures, they would have offshored the work, had it stolen, and the router would now be mass-produced by the Chinese.:)
Cisco is terrified of all the old, "obsolete", "used" hardware floating around. And with all the failed dot-coms, there's tones of it available. Some of it never came out of the box/off the pallet. It might be several years old, but it works perfectly (2500's, 5000's, etc.)
A number of people have been burned buying used Cisco equipment because Cisco demands that you buy a new license for the "software". This is despite the fact that it doesn't work without the hardware, and the original buyer already paid for both.
In other words, they knew copyright infringement was against the law but they did not know it was happening because they were not the ones who put the infringing code in their product. It was added by an Indian outsourcing firm. (That's what you get for outsourcing! NOW how much money did they save?:) )
Ripping off GPLed code and selling it as new code to a customer, eh? I can't find any support for that in the CMM docs. Isn't CMM level 5 what all the Indian outsourcers are claiming?
Whatever happened to MicroSoft shutting down all new development, and focusing entirely on security for a month? Didn't they get all the problems fixed them?
That was for all the existing code. It's 19 years until the next code review.
Besides, how do you explain "statistical intrusion detection" to the average home user who just wants to read e-mail and surf the Web?
Dunno. How did they explain to all their users that they had to have anti-virus software running at all times without explaining why? Considering the way people pay for BestBuy extended warranties, Microsoft should have no problem selling security. Hey, they could even charge more for the XP-Secure version.
Furthermore, once you have a desktop user's privileges, it's easy to get root. You just pop up a dialog box asking for the root password, or install a keystroke logger or whatever and get the password next time the user installs something.
Yeah, that does poke a big hole in my initial response, but it's still more complicated and problematic than the typical Windows malware, which has "root" as soon as it executes. Your point reinforces my belief that the authors of any such Linux email client would be run out of town.:)
Yes, until someone decides to add that functionality to a mail program.
That would be a Very Bad Thing, but it still wouldn't have root privileges. I'd imagine the program's authors would subsequently be run out of Linuxville on a rail.
Things like having a 4 step process to read email attachments is WHY linux is not seeing mainstream growth. The average person cares a heck of a lot more about convenience than security.
Maybe the average person (and some companies) will finally get tired of having their equipment trashed and time and money wasted and switch to a more secure OS, even if your email doesn't automatically execute programs - oh, what a sacrifice.:) Besides it's not a 4-step process to READ email attachments with many Linux clients, it's 4 steps to EXECUTE an attachment.
ICANN should jerk their ticket. can 'em. shut the sumbucks down. remove the addressing of those top level domain servers in the other domain servers of da ISH and zero out VeriSign. sue 'em. drop 'em from the mailing list. gutshoot their dog. follow their kids to school in a dark-windowed van.
You've gone off the medication again, haven't you? We've discussed this before. Just take the pills like you're supposed to, and we won't have to report this.:)
I gather it's more like a lemming stampede than a mass suicide. The ones at the edge get shoved off by the guys behind--who can't see the edge because there are lemmings in front of them.
Hey, I agree with you, and I'm behind you all the way. Whoa, dude, watch that first step! Ooh, bummer.:)
It's already moral, what with them being 20 years old and generating no revenue for the original coders, artists and musicians, which is all I care about. Whether the company which bought up the company which bought up the company which did the work makes any money from their sale is not interesting to me.
Well, the companies in the RIAA are still charging $20 for 30-year-old recordings, so I'll leave the legality and morality to others. What interests me is that two of the Atari joystick-killers, Beam Rider and River Raid are not on the list of available titles. I'd pay for copies of them if they ran in emulation (even though I still have the originals).
Good for him! He's made computers accessible to every random idiot capable of operating a toaster. The good news is that MS lead to the commoditization of the cheap Intel/clone hardware, upon which Linux depends.
If I had even one BSOD on my toaster, I'd demand a refund. And let's not forget M$'s other contributions to computing: malware that keeps computer repair shops thriving and an entire industry devoted to making software that sucks up your computer's resources while looking for viruses.
Without M$, perhaps we wouldn't have Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and other free software.
Without M$, we would have had CP/M (which was the offered alternative) running on our IBM PCs, and the clones and BSD would have happened anyway. Perhaps Microsoft's lucky deal with IBM delayed the normal progression of OSS by decades. Just a thought.:)
I think it would be cool if Compaq tech support started answering their phones like this:
"HP Compaq Tech support, a tiny division of a Big Blue Monolith. How can I help you?"
I think it would be cool if they would just start answering the phone.
That's cute, but when I see *M$*, it reminds me that they have 40 billion dollars in the bank, 80% profit margins, and wail about Communist OSS, while forcing constantly more onerous terms and restrictions on their users. I was a long-time M$ $upporter (starting in the early 80's) before I realized I was getting burned, but what do I know.
The second round of Bush's tax cuts seem to have done the job. All economic indicators for the last quarter are up. The stock market is approaching 10,000 again. By the time the 2004 election rolls around, the recession will be long gone.
Gee, I sure hope you're right, but what about those pesky job numbers? Still 400,000 new jobless claims every week. Who is going to fuel this *recovery* ?
All these rich above are probably farmers collecting millions in Federal handouts (sarcasm).
You may very well be right, but there are many farmers who are millionaires solely by virtue of tax assessments. It's called being land poor. The authorities constantly increase the assessed value of land in rural areas to bolster revenues. The farmers often have to sell out to corporations because they have been taxed out of business, out of their homes, and off their property.
The spam issue must be fixed in the community. . . People who have serious spam problems are not very good at dealing with it.
Okay, I don't have much of a spam problem either, but why should I have any spam problem at all? Why should spammers be allowed to hijack a service I pay for? Why should my gray-haired mother, who is not a computer whiz, have to deal with spam? What about the bandwidth and resources that are being sucked up by spam? Why should "the community" be responsible for a problem created by the irresponsible?
Sorry, but for me, your answer to the problem just raises more questions.
My real curiosity is how people's attitudes or feelings would change (or not change) if it turns out SCO is right (however unlikely that is).
Why should anyone's attitude toward SCO change? It has been pointed out repeatedly that if IBM did a no-no, then SCO will get damages (be paid for their IP, ha ha), and the offending code would be removed from the kernel because it violates the GPL (not because we would have to).
SCO has no right to claim ownership of Linux in any case, nor to charge Linux users license fees. What they are doing is thinly veiled extortion. Why on earth would I change my opinion of them?
Heh, somehow it doesn't surprise me that the British view of the American Revolution differs from ours. Since it happened here, I'll stick with our version, thankyouverymuchanyway.:)
The second amendment, passed as you say in 1791 was several years after said eviction.
So WHAT is your point? As I originally said, the 2nd and 3rd amendments were about the British occupation. Firearms were considered necessary to prevent a future occupation. They certainly worked the first time.
The war of 1812 was not won by either side. Sure, guns were used against the Brits, but singularly ineffectively. As the Brits withdrew of their own accord, guns weren't used to evict them.
Yes, guns were used against the Brits, but they just withdrew because they were late for tea. Otherwise, they would have stayed and retaken the upstart colonies. No cause and effect there. You're right, you do have a sense of humor, and I sincerely apologize for suggesting otherwise.:)
Still...my point is the same. When was the last time the brits posed any risk?
Methinks your humor detector is due for a checkup. Did you see the little smiley at the end? Modern US history books (some anyway) classify the 2nd and 3rd amendments as outmoded responses to the British occupation. And you probably just insulted a bunch of Brits.:) [note humor indicator]
I'd suggest you got YOUR history straight. The guns were used to evict the Brits once. Of course, that was before the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, so the right to bear arms does not apply in that circumstance.
The amendments (Bill of Rights) had a good deal to do with what happened after the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, since they were ratified in 1791. I'd suggest YOU get your history straight.
The only other real time the Brits were in the USA in a war-like mood was in 1812.
Umm, that's twice. Have a problem counting? Take a math class. I'd also suggest you get a sense of humor, but that's probably expecting too much.:)
Everytime I read the uber captialist type posts I picture Larry Flynt's "Asshole of the Week" . A head with a big mouth sprouting up from an anus
It's spelled "capitalist". You can't spell it, and you don't understand it, and it doesn't have anything to do with good doctors. And if you have anything to say to me, don't post AC. Stand up and take your lumps like a man/woman.
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That's interesting. There have been a couple of complaints on Ed Foster's Gripe Line that said Cisco was demanding the software license fees just because the customer installed the used router (and the customer already had a support agreement with Cisco). I suppose Cisco could claim that the used equipment somehow added to their support burden, but it still seems shady to me.
In many ways Cisco *is* a victim here. They didn't design the router, and I'm reasonably sure that Cisco's development proceedures would have prevented such a gaffe from happening.
Heh. If Cisco had followed their usual development procedures, they would have offshored the work, had it stolen, and the router would now be mass-produced by the Chinese. :)
Cisco is terrified of all the old, "obsolete", "used" hardware floating around. And with all the failed dot-coms, there's tones of it available. Some of it never came out of the box/off the pallet. It might be several years old, but it works perfectly (2500's, 5000's, etc.)
A number of people have been burned buying used Cisco equipment because Cisco demands that you buy a new license for the "software". This is despite the fact that it doesn't work without the hardware, and the original buyer already paid for both.
In other words, they knew copyright infringement was against the law but they did not know it was happening because they were not the ones who put the infringing code in their product. It was added by an Indian outsourcing firm. (That's what you get for outsourcing! NOW how much money did they save? :) )
Ripping off GPLed code and selling it as new code to a customer, eh? I can't find any support for that in the CMM docs. Isn't CMM level 5 what all the Indian outsourcers are claiming?
Whatever happened to MicroSoft shutting down all new development, and focusing entirely on security for a month? Didn't they get all the problems fixed them?
That was for all the existing code. It's 19 years until the next code review.
Besides, how do you explain "statistical intrusion detection" to the average home user who just wants to read e-mail and surf the Web?
Dunno. How did they explain to all their users that they had to have anti-virus software running at all times without explaining why? Considering the way people pay for BestBuy extended warranties, Microsoft should have no problem selling security. Hey, they could even charge more for the XP-Secure version.
Furthermore, once you have a desktop user's privileges, it's easy to get root. You just pop up a dialog box asking for the root password, or install a keystroke logger or whatever and get the password next time the user installs something.
Yeah, that does poke a big hole in my initial response, but it's still more complicated and problematic than the typical Windows malware, which has "root" as soon as it executes. Your point reinforces my belief that the authors of any such Linux email client would be run out of town. :)
Yes, until someone decides to add that functionality to a mail program.
That would be a Very Bad Thing, but it still wouldn't have root privileges. I'd imagine the program's authors would subsequently be run out of Linuxville on a rail.
Things like having a 4 step process to read email attachments is WHY linux is not seeing mainstream growth. The average person cares a heck of a lot more about convenience than security.
Maybe the average person (and some companies) will finally get tired of having their equipment trashed and time and money wasted and switch to a more secure OS, even if your email doesn't automatically execute programs - oh, what a sacrifice. :) Besides it's not a 4-step process to READ email attachments with many Linux clients, it's 4 steps to EXECUTE an attachment.
ICANN should jerk their ticket. can 'em. shut the sumbucks down. remove the addressing of those top level domain servers in the other domain servers of da ISH and zero out VeriSign. sue 'em. drop 'em from the mailing list. gutshoot their dog. follow their kids to school in a dark-windowed van.
You've gone off the medication again, haven't you? We've discussed this before. Just take the pills like you're supposed to, and we won't have to report this. :)
I gather it's more like a lemming stampede than a mass suicide. The ones at the edge get shoved off by the guys behind--who can't see the edge because there are lemmings in front of them.
Hey, I agree with you, and I'm behind you all the way. Whoa, dude, watch that first step! Ooh, bummer. :)
It's already moral, what with them being 20 years old and generating no revenue for the original coders, artists and musicians, which is all I care about. Whether the company which bought up the company which bought up the company which did the work makes any money from their sale is not interesting to me.
Well, the companies in the RIAA are still charging $20 for 30-year-old recordings, so I'll leave the legality and morality to others. What interests me is that two of the Atari joystick-killers, Beam Rider and River Raid are not on the list of available titles. I'd pay for copies of them if they ran in emulation (even though I still have the originals).
Good for him! He's made computers accessible to every random idiot capable of operating a toaster. The good news is that MS lead to the commoditization of the cheap Intel/clone hardware, upon which Linux depends.
If I had even one BSOD on my toaster, I'd demand a refund. And let's not forget M$'s other contributions to computing: malware that keeps computer repair shops thriving and an entire industry devoted to making software that sucks up your computer's resources while looking for viruses.
Without M$, perhaps we wouldn't have Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and other free software.
Without M$, we would have had CP/M (which was the offered alternative) running on our IBM PCs, and the clones and BSD would have happened anyway. Perhaps Microsoft's lucky deal with IBM delayed the normal progression of OSS by decades. Just a thought. :)
I think it would be cool if Compaq tech support started answering their phones like this: "HP Compaq Tech support, a tiny division of a Big Blue Monolith. How can I help you?"
I think it would be cool if they would just start answering the phone.
That's cute, but when I see *M$*, it reminds me that they have 40 billion dollars in the bank, 80% profit margins, and wail about Communist OSS, while forcing constantly more onerous terms and restrictions on their users. I was a long-time M$ $upporter (starting in the early 80's) before I realized I was getting burned, but what do I know.
The second round of Bush's tax cuts seem to have done the job. All economic indicators for the last quarter are up. The stock market is approaching 10,000 again. By the time the 2004 election rolls around, the recession will be long gone.
Gee, I sure hope you're right, but what about those pesky job numbers? Still 400,000 new jobless claims every week. Who is going to fuel this *recovery* ?
All these rich above are probably farmers collecting millions in Federal handouts (sarcasm).
You may very well be right, but there are many farmers who are millionaires solely by virtue of tax assessments. It's called being land poor. The authorities constantly increase the assessed value of land in rural areas to bolster revenues. The farmers often have to sell out to corporations because they have been taxed out of business, out of their homes, and off their property.
What is HP's contribution to Linux?
Drivers for their brain-dead win-printers?
Are you sure HP is on the other side? It looks like Sun and HP who indemnify their customers are the only winners in the whole situation . . .
Has HP purchased any licenses from SCO recently? Sun did.
The spam issue must be fixed in the community. . . People who have serious spam problems are not very good at dealing with it.
Okay, I don't have much of a spam problem either, but why should I have any spam problem at all? Why should spammers be allowed to hijack a service I pay for? Why should my gray-haired mother, who is not a computer whiz, have to deal with spam? What about the bandwidth and resources that are being sucked up by spam? Why should "the community" be responsible for a problem created by the irresponsible?
Sorry, but for me, your answer to the problem just raises more questions.
My real curiosity is how people's attitudes or feelings would change (or not change) if it turns out SCO is right (however unlikely that is).
Why should anyone's attitude toward SCO change? It has been pointed out repeatedly that if IBM did a no-no, then SCO will get damages (be paid for their IP, ha ha), and the offending code would be removed from the kernel because it violates the GPL (not because we would have to).
SCO has no right to claim ownership of Linux in any case, nor to charge Linux users license fees. What they are doing is thinly veiled extortion. Why on earth would I change my opinion of them?
Heh, somehow it doesn't surprise me that the British view of the American Revolution differs from ours. Since it happened here, I'll stick with our version, thankyouverymuchanyway. :)
The second amendment, passed as you say in 1791 was several years after said eviction.
So WHAT is your point? As I originally said, the 2nd and 3rd amendments were about the British occupation. Firearms were considered necessary to prevent a future occupation. They certainly worked the first time.
The war of 1812 was not won by either side. Sure, guns were used against the Brits, but singularly ineffectively. As the Brits withdrew of their own accord, guns weren't used to evict them.
Yes, guns were used against the Brits, but they just withdrew because they were late for tea. Otherwise, they would have stayed and retaken the upstart colonies. No cause and effect there. You're right, you do have a sense of humor, and I sincerely apologize for suggesting otherwise. :)
Still...my point is the same. When was the last time the brits posed any risk?
Methinks your humor detector is due for a checkup. Did you see the little smiley at the end? Modern US history books (some anyway) classify the 2nd and 3rd amendments as outmoded responses to the British occupation. And you probably just insulted a bunch of Brits. :) [note humor indicator]
I'd suggest you got YOUR history straight. The guns were used to evict the Brits once. Of course, that was before the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, so the right to bear arms does not apply in that circumstance.
The amendments (Bill of Rights) had a good deal to do with what happened after the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, since they were ratified in 1791. I'd suggest YOU get your history straight.
The only other real time the Brits were in the USA in a war-like mood was in 1812.
Umm, that's twice. Have a problem counting? Take a math class. I'd also suggest you get a sense of humor, but that's probably expecting too much. :)
Everytime I read the uber captialist type posts I picture Larry Flynt's "Asshole of the Week" . A head with a big mouth sprouting up from an anus
It's spelled "capitalist". You can't spell it, and you don't understand it, and it doesn't have anything to do with good doctors. And if you have anything to say to me, don't post AC. Stand up and take your lumps like a man/woman.