Anybody is free to criticize Linux or Windows. But of course it's more acceptable here to criticize Windows. And when someone raises the point that something Windows is being criticized for is true of Linux, it suddenly becomes a matter of a personal decision and I should just not use Linux and butt out of the discussion?
Nope.
For the record, there are several other versions of UNIX that I prefer over Linux these days anyhow. But that's immaterial.
I was replying to the traditional "Microsoft is good at making both their old software, and old hardware obsolete" comment. Linux lately has been making lots and lots of hardware obsolete.
Except when said modularizations would allow enhancements to performance that monolithic structure is preventing the addition of...
Why is it that what I visualize when reading that is:
A big ugly clone case with room for all kinds of extra drives, and tapped holes on the mounting plate for the holes in 1500 permutations of motherboards.
versus
A nice well-designed designed Sun Workstation case, maybe the SS20 or Ultra 1?
The first is modular as hell, but rift with compromise, big, bulky, with no style at all. The second is less 'expandable' (Sbus is cool, though) but something that was actually engineered, not just kludged together at random or design-by-committee.
One of the problems with X11 is nobody is working on X12. Hell, nobody is working on anything better than X11R6 as far as I can tell. I remember an article in a UNIX magazine about five years ago talking about multimedia extensions, but that was right before the X consortium sorta went *boom* or whatever it is that made them completely invisible (do they still exist?) now.
And Multimedia extensions would be nice. It'd be cool if there was a network transparent sound protocol that ran in parallel with X to deliver the sound portion of apps.
Maybe I just haven't been following it much, but it seems like it just disappeared.
There's plenty of hardware now that 'current' versions of Linux won't run on. Sure, you can compile back in the code from earlier versions of XFree86 and get your S3/Trio64 card to work if you want, but it's unsupported, abandoned hardware in the mainstream builds. And more and more it's common to run into the same snide comments from Linux people 'get some better hardware, loser' that used to be associated only with Microsoft's bloatware. The dominant Linux 'desktops' now require hellacious bloated hardware even to install.
Go ahead. Chime in with your comment about 'hardware is cheap' now and prove my point.
The term 'cracker' was first coined by hackers, too, just not the current ones who insist that a cracker is someone who 'cracks' security. A cracker was someone who 'cracks' personal computer games and removes or NOPs over the copy protection. Famous 'cracked' games always had a 'cracked by' comment on the splash screen.
However, at that point in time, the 'crackers' were playing around with color displays on cheap PCs and Apple IIs and Amigas. 'Hackers' were staring at green screen dumb terminals. The people who now 'own' the 'Jargon file' are the latter.
I hope you noticed that the default shell in NetBSD is/bin/csh. Where are people getting this information that the default shell in NetBSD is/bin/sh ???
bash is an extend-and-embrace version of/bin/sh: it encourages people to write broken shell scripts.
On some of the GNU systems, i.e. Linux,/bin/bash is the automatic replacement for a nonexistent/bin/sh, so people write what they think are generic shell scripts, but carelessly include bash-only features. Then their scripts won't work on systems without/bin/bash.
bash is sorta like Microsoft's Java implementation in that way.
There certainly is a history in the default shell (/bin/csh) on NetBSD. Type the 'h' command to see your numbered command history. Then type, for instance !3 to repeat the third command on the list, or !! to repeat the most recent command.
But if we wanted to have a shell war, maybe I am just being pedantic and interfering.
... to make sure *NIX doesn't fall behind in the OS game....tumbleweeds waft through the view. The lonely wail of a coyote is heard, off in the distance....
Now, if it wasn't all under the command of a democratic government, one that actually let the opposition yammer and ramble away for months and years before it was finally grudgingly deployed, it would be a different matter.
You know what, though? Religious zealots often aren't the brightest people in a given population. So the more stupid people are the most determined. That doesn't sound all that bad...
I have a fetish for compiling everything from source, too. It's brought me over to NetBSD, from Slack, because a base install of NetBSD is so generic you don't even get a Window Manager except for TWM, unless you compile it from the Packages or use the binary packages. A base install is simple, yet complete, in a 100 meg download of TGZ files.
Also it's cool that there is one NetBSD, all the same, to run on all my architectures. The same exact source tree, kernel and userland, runs on my Sparc, Intel, and PPC boxes. The same/etc hierarchy. It's nice.
I wouldn't know enough about Unix to even have started on NetBSD if I hadn't learned so much running Slack, though. And the Slack boot/root diskettes have been important power tools (with useful things like dd for backing up partitions or entire raw hard drives) for years.
Naw. You install Slackware, then you use 'pkgtool -r' to remove packages one by one as you reinstall your tuned versions compiled from source. That's kinda-sorta using packages.
I remember how liberating it was the first time I installed Slackware. It was wonderful after suffering for so long with the always-broken-in-a-new-way mess that was Yggdrasil Linux. The old Infomagic Linux CD-ROM sets were a lifesaver to an isolated nerd in a sea of Microsoft.
I remember, during the brief period when I ran Red Hat Linux (at Version 4.2), that I always told people I ran Red Hat only for about a half hour. That was how long it took to recompile a nice solid static kernel on top of Red Hat and get rid of their broken kludge-ridden kernel module system. It was bad back with 4.2, but Red Hat had some nice binaries all preconfigured that I didn't know how to install on Slack. But as I learned more I went back to Slack.
I bought one of the books, _Linux Programming_, co-authored by Patrick Volkerding. I figured that was paying him for his efforts. The book came with a CD that had 'Slackware 96' (Slackware 3.1.0) on it. That was the big leap from Kernel 1.2.13 to 2.0 for me. Back in those days, before I had any kind of reliable connection to the Internet at all, buying Linux CDs and books with Linux CDs in them was the easiest way to get the latest version of Slack.
I haven't looked recently, but are there still high quality commercial X servers for Linux on the market? I remember magazine ads for Metro-X in Linux Journal years ago. Are these products still available?
I was drawing a parallel to why Winston Churchill went to war. You didn't attempt to challange that parallell and either deliberately or mistakenly evaded it.
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Nope.
Anybody is free to criticize Linux or Windows. But of course it's more acceptable here to criticize Windows. And when someone raises the point that something Windows is being criticized for is true of Linux, it suddenly becomes a matter of a personal decision and I should just not use Linux and butt out of the discussion?
Nope.
For the record, there are several other versions of UNIX that I prefer over Linux these days anyhow. But that's immaterial.
Whoosh! My point went right over your head.
I was replying to the traditional "Microsoft is good at making both their old software, and old hardware obsolete" comment. Linux lately has been making lots and lots of hardware obsolete.
Except when said modularizations would allow enhancements to performance that monolithic structure is preventing the addition of...
Why is it that what I visualize when reading that is:
A big ugly clone case with room for all kinds of extra drives, and tapped holes on the mounting plate for the holes in 1500 permutations of motherboards.
versus
A nice well-designed designed Sun Workstation case, maybe the SS20 or Ultra 1?
The first is modular as hell, but rift with compromise, big, bulky, with no style at all. The second is less 'expandable' (Sbus is cool, though) but something that was actually engineered, not just kludged together at random or design-by-committee.
One of the problems with X11 is nobody is working on X12. Hell, nobody is working on anything better than X11R6 as far as I can tell. I remember an article in a UNIX magazine about five years ago talking about multimedia extensions, but that was right before the X consortium sorta went *boom* or whatever it is that made them completely invisible (do they still exist?) now.
And Multimedia extensions would be nice. It'd be cool if there was a network transparent sound protocol that ran in parallel with X to deliver the sound portion of apps.
Maybe I just haven't been following it much, but it seems like it just disappeared.
There's plenty of hardware now that 'current' versions of Linux won't run on. Sure, you can compile back in the code from earlier versions of XFree86 and get your S3/Trio64 card to work if you want, but it's unsupported, abandoned hardware in the mainstream builds. And more and more it's common to run into the same snide comments from Linux people 'get some better hardware, loser' that used to be associated only with Microsoft's bloatware. The dominant Linux 'desktops' now require hellacious bloated hardware even to install.
Go ahead. Chime in with your comment about 'hardware is cheap' now and prove my point.
The term 'cracker' was first coined by hackers, too, just not the current ones who insist that a cracker is someone who 'cracks' security. A cracker was someone who 'cracks' personal computer games and removes or NOPs over the copy protection. Famous 'cracked' games always had a 'cracked by' comment on the splash screen.
However, at that point in time, the 'crackers' were playing around with color displays on cheap PCs and Apple IIs and Amigas. 'Hackers' were staring at green screen dumb terminals. The people who now 'own' the 'Jargon file' are the latter.
You didn't address his point at all. He made a comment about Oracle's low quality. You replied 'Microsoft has bad quality.'
Are you one of Larry's minions?
bash is an extend-and-embrace version of /bin/sh: it encourages people to write broken shell scripts.
/bin/bash is the automatic replacement for a nonexistent /bin/sh, so people write what they think are generic shell scripts, but carelessly include bash-only features. Then their scripts won't work on systems without /bin/bash.
On some of the GNU systems, i.e. Linux,
bash is sorta like Microsoft's Java implementation in that way.
There certainly is a history in the default shell (/bin/csh) on NetBSD. Type the 'h' command to see your numbered command history. Then type, for instance !3 to repeat the third command on the list, or !! to repeat the most recent command.
But if we wanted to have a shell war, maybe I am just being pedantic and interfering.
... to make sure *NIX doesn't fall behind in the OS game. ...tumbleweeds waft through the view. The lonely wail of a coyote is heard, off in the distance....
Yeah. I do.
Now, if it wasn't all under the command of a democratic government, one that actually let the opposition yammer and ramble away for months and years before it was finally grudgingly deployed, it would be a different matter.
You know what, though? Religious zealots often aren't the brightest people in a given population. So the more stupid people are the most determined. That doesn't sound all that bad...
Mental age of 11.
I have a fetish for compiling everything from source, too. It's brought me over to NetBSD, from Slack, because a base install of NetBSD is so generic you don't even get a Window Manager except for TWM, unless you compile it from the Packages or use the binary packages. A base install is simple, yet complete, in a 100 meg download of TGZ files.
/etc hierarchy. It's nice.
Also it's cool that there is one NetBSD, all the same, to run on all my architectures. The same exact source tree, kernel and userland, runs on my Sparc, Intel, and PPC boxes. The same
I wouldn't know enough about Unix to even have started on NetBSD if I hadn't learned so much running Slack, though. And the Slack boot/root diskettes have been important power tools (with useful things like dd for backing up partitions or entire raw hard drives) for years.
Naw. You install Slackware, then you use 'pkgtool -r' to remove packages one by one as you reinstall your tuned versions compiled from source. That's kinda-sorta using packages.
Thanks, Pat.
I remember how liberating it was the first time I installed Slackware. It was wonderful after suffering for so long with the always-broken-in-a-new-way mess that was Yggdrasil Linux. The old Infomagic Linux CD-ROM sets were a lifesaver to an isolated nerd in a sea of Microsoft.
I remember, during the brief period when I ran Red Hat Linux (at Version 4.2), that I always told people I ran Red Hat only for about a half hour. That was how long it took to recompile a nice solid static kernel on top of Red Hat and get rid of their broken kludge-ridden kernel module system. It was bad back with 4.2, but Red Hat had some nice binaries all preconfigured that I didn't know how to install on Slack. But as I learned more I went back to Slack.
I bought one of the books, _Linux Programming_, co-authored by Patrick Volkerding. I figured that was paying him for his efforts. The book came with a CD that had 'Slackware 96' (Slackware 3.1.0) on it. That was the big leap from Kernel 1.2.13 to 2.0 for me. Back in those days, before I had any kind of reliable connection to the Internet at all, buying Linux CDs and books with Linux CDs in them was the easiest way to get the latest version of Slack.
I haven't looked recently, but are there still high quality commercial X servers for Linux on the market? I remember magazine ads for Metro-X in Linux Journal years ago. Are these products still available?
Certainly it is. Vendors can produce closed source forks if they like. That isn't encouraged, though.
The bad news is that those who bought a Cisco access point now have a LinkSys access point for double the price ;(
The grandparent comment was speculating in much the same way. I was just pointing out the contradiction.
Yes, and killing one of the people at your party might get you to turn down that damned stereo.
Ends don't justify means.
I was drawing a parallel to why Winston Churchill went to war. You didn't attempt to challange that parallell and either deliberately or mistakenly evaded it.