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Microsoft: We Make Hackers Obsolete
bahamat writes "This article explains how Microsoft was forced to yank a magazine ad by the Advertising Standards Authority. In the ad MS claims that they'll make the hacker extinct. The tagline reads "Microsoft software is carefully designed to keep your company's valuable information in, and unauthorised people and viruses out. Which means that your data couldn't really be safer, even if you kept it in a safe. Which is great news for the survival of your company. But tragic news for hackers." Does MS really think that people are too stupid to remember what happened less than 2 months ago? My favorite quote from the article is "Clarke described Microsoft's claim as "laughable". "
I wonder if they used stock photography again this time?
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
So where is their product that makes hackers extinct! I havent heard of the release yet! This is great new! Does someone have a link to it?
This is almost too stupid to be true. The majority of the world would disagree with this, even my MOM! :)
I think their ad exec provided a self portrait with that Dodo.
I'll take the safe any day1
Instead of the ad showing the greasy hacker it should show the hacker with huge muscles and maybe like laser beams shooting from its eyes as it thrives in the microsoft environment. I bet then they'd run the ad.
-Eod
Maybe they've finaly refined their product to the point where you simply can't boot it anymore. Put your safe inside your computer and feel as safe as ever.
Computing in Hell:
The security of Windows, the ease of use of Linux, and a Macintosh mouse!
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
It IS hacker proof - we don't have access to the source, how are we supposed to hack on the code?
*rim shot*
Because it doesn't require a hacker to break into Microsoft products, any average user can do it.
I can't believe they would even consider pulling a stunt like that.
Sadly, many people would believe it, if for no other reason than total ignorance.
I can't believe it; someone LYING in an ADVERTISEMENT?! This threatens the integrity of the entire advertising field!
Windows 2000 Server:
3 vulnerabilities in 7 yea--- days!
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
It seems reasonable that, Oracle already having garnered the attention the press for its "Unbreakable" slogan, that Microsoft try it, too. (I'll let you argue amongst yourselves whether this is in keeping with Microsoft's traditional business practices.)
Precendent's been set. But the correct response from the geek public has been to attempt to poke holes in an(y) absolutist claim, as is its obligation.
The product is called "Microsoft Offswitch"
Microsoft's typical strategy at this point is to sue the ASA.
Jason
ProfQuotes
Ummm.... Isn't this post off topic?
need i say more?
Seeing as you dont need a hacker to break it then technicaly they could make hackers obsolete. Of course the growth in crackers is and will be astonomical.
:)
If there serious in selling internet portales then a free site certificate thats certified by recocnised organisation might be a step in the right direction but the only hacker/craker proof NT system I've seen had a blue screen and was locked down solid as a box switched off
Hackers = Old and Busted
Self-Destructing Security Free Worm-Destroyed Software = New Hotness
Who needs hackers when the installer itself breaks windows...
It might be the end of advertising as we know it.
While I agree with you, how do you expect such comments to be taken seriously if you post anon? hmm
(null)
" In the ad MS claims that they'll make the hacker extinct. "
I don't see what the problem is. It's true! Why be a hacker when you can do it all as a script kiddie?
It's just a cultural mixing pot. If you have enough people that can hack Microsoft software (which is practically anyone) then hackers become diluted and are mixed into the normal genepool. So after everyone becomes a "hacker," no real hackers are left.
rofl bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Linux needs a cool commercial. http://phunny.drghetto.com/switchlinux3.swf
okay. Doesn't really have anything to do with this article (it's more of a switch ad) but it's still funny.
YOU SUCK BALLS!
From the Jargon Dictionary link in the article:
hacker n. [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe]
Why would Microsoft even care about some crude pre-modern furniture makers? I am beginning to think there was more than one reason the advertisement got yanked.
Microsoft construction: we make bricks and mortar obsolete
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
Dammit! I already used up my mod points!
Need we say more?
they will definitely make the Business 2.0 Bad business ideas next year, HANDS DOWN!!
Stallan once said if you stated a lie long enough it would become true.
...."Windows is reliable...Unix is reliable...Windows is scalable...Unix is scalable...Windows cost less then a $1000 dollars...???" ?
I remember how NT4 was supposed to be the unix killer. Anyone remember the microsoft ad on the internet which went something like this
At the same time Bill Gates did a show called scalability day. In the demonstration with Microsoft Transaction server they showed NT doing million of simulated hits for banking apps. Bill said if NT can do this with only pc hardware just imagine what it can do with 32 processor systems.
What a joke. We all know that NT4 sucked bigtime and it was no solaris as Microsoft claimed.
Same is true with this. Many companies like Motorolla and TI believed the lie and replaced all there unix systems with NT ones only to downgrade back to unix. NT just could not handle it and Microsoft transaction server was not the magical bullet Microsoft made it out to be.
Its like the story of the boy who called wolf.
http://saveie6.com/
http://phunny.drghetto.com/switchlinux3.swf
much more creative.
YOU SUCK BALLS!
Of course they make hackers obsolete. I just got done spending a week making dotnet asp/vb code talk to a unix based web services. Did I want to learn about the wonders of a new webform? A few years back I could respect myself (somewhat) in the morning after some serious ATL development. I wonder if there is a 'hacker' audience anymore.
Now what they did not say is 'we make Crackers obsolete'. Their marketing department gets one right and everyone gripes...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
mahhahaha your software couldn't keep out a 13 year old kid, let alone anyone else
This is a classical example of how M$ will just say or do anything it wants. Personally I think their Marketing deptartments and all other deptments don't have any way of communicating.
I'm not sure how many people have used internet explorer... But if you go to the wrong website, not click on anything, simply go there... You can have .exe files on your computer that run. Basically most of the stuff is spyware and 900 numbers that charge you 400$/minute long distance. But if someone wanted, they could totally delete all your files in addition to spying on you. Internet explorer with all the security updates, and you might as well be hog tied while hackers take over your computer.
God spoke to me
Is that the definition of hacker which is the guy who works miracles and is a real programmer?
Or, does Microsoft mean the type of hacker that can bypass Microsoft security in 30 seconds without breaking a sweat. As opposed to a script-kiddy taking an hour?
Fight Spammers!
If anyone else was confused by the appearance of the "Advertising Standards Authority", it should be pointed out that this all occurred in South Africa, and not in the United Corporations of America.
America, naturally, would never CONSIDER such an insightful group.
Um.. perhaps someone needs to enlighten Microsoft as to the real definition of hacker.
Directly from the jargon file, a list of common definitions of hacker. Notice the 'malicious meddler' one...
(Originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe) 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in "a Unix hacker". (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. (Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is cracker. The term "hacker" also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see The Network and Internet address). It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic. It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. Thus while it is gratifying to be called a hacker, false claimants to the title are quickly labelled as "bogus" or a "wannabee". 9. (University of Maryland, rare) A programmer who does not understand proper programming techniques and principles and doesn't have a Computer Science degree. Someone who just bangs on the keyboard until something happens. For example, "This program is nothing but spaghetti code. It must have been written by a hacker".
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
*Ignorant Person reads ad saying Microsoft products are hacker-proof and security bug free*
Ignorant Person: "This is what I have been waiting for!"
*Ignorant Person runs to the nearest Wal-Mart and buys a copy of Windows 2000 Server.*
*Ignorant Person tries to install it over his previous server OS, Windows 95 original release.*
*Ignorant Person is satisfied once Windows 2000 Server is installed and IIS is running*
*Ignorant Person's web site is hacked, Code Red I-IV finds a new home, and Nimda exploits every unpatched bug and then some. Not to mention the original Melissa virus from the W95 days*
Ignorant Person: "Ah shit"
Are you some kind of robot? If yes, what powers do you have? Do you use them for good or for awesome?
Are they using the same crack(sic) team that created the WindowsXP protection scheme?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1633875.stm
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
..but can anybody out there make that claim? I doubt it. If you know enough to keep everybody out, you pretty much know enough to keep everybody out no matter what OS you're on. Windows' big problem (I'm referring only to NT/2K/XP, not 9x or ME. I wouldn't defend that line for nothing.) is its poor choice of defaults. Lock it down and it isn't half bad. I had an IIS server running for nearly 2 years without a single incident. The big thing I did (here's a free tip for you IIS users out there) was I installed 'URLScan' which applied a filter to all URS before parsing. This not only prevented people from trying to use buffer-overflow techniques to break in, but it also let me prevent very specific things from being run. Damn cool, but it really should come with IIS. Like I said, poor defaults.
A Linux box, by default, is hardly more secure. Within a couple of weeks of building an Apache Server with the latest Redhat, it got rooted. Yay. You still have to patch it up, lock it down, and monitor it. I know the tools are there to make it more secure, but the problem is that you have to get to know it. I'm new to the Linux world, and as such I was more vulnerable to malicious attack than I was with IIS because I was unfamiliar with it.
So I'm curious, who actually can make that claim? Nobody immediately springs to mind.
"Derp de derp."
unfortunately yes. there are people that stupid.
So it looks like Microsoft doesn't realize how lucky it has been in recent times.
SQL Slammer - affected users had better be thankful the packets only caused congestion - a packet 5 times the size but had a damaging (as opposed to disruptive) payload would hurt a lot more.
The WebDAV hole - a hell of a good job keeping hackers out of the US Army website.
The JScript hole - so just by reading my (HTML and JScript enabled) mail, an attacker could potentially run arbitrary code on my computer?
SirCam and Klez - information really does want to be free, it keeps escaping from Microsoft products!
In Soviet Russia, Microsoft owns Hackers!
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
This reminds me of the time Ari Fleischer insisted at a press conference that "Nobody, but nobody, is more reluctant to go to war than President Bush." (source, emphasis mine)
Apparently, people think that saying something enough makes other people believe it, even if it's 180 degrees from the evidence.
Which is great news for the survival of your company. But tragic news for hackers.
Even if it were true that Microsoft platforms were secure and immune to outside vulnerbilities, their advertisement implies that hackers would become extinct using their platforms.
This should lead us to believe that anyone who cares to code or develop applications on a computer, or any company that wants to have or just use any applications post-Microsoft platform era, should no longer use their platforms as they make hackers extinct? It is rather a catch-22 situation for Microsoft is it not, that their platform will prevent anyone from developing it further once hackers are obsolete (although with a perfectly performing system why would they need to develop it further?)
But thanks for the warning Microsoft, we should not develop for their platforms and must move to other platforms if we want to hack away at the system to create applications. How nice of them to advertise this fact.
... I guess
yes that must be the correct answere bob! tell a group of chalange hungry people they can't do something...hah
... and I'm sitting at work this afternoon, after corporate sent out the latest microsoft "critical update" notice and recommends that we patch all our servers...
so we are looking at an "update server" to keep everything up to date, and the guy I work with notices that there are over *900* updates for Win2K. Now, ok, not all of these are critical security holes, I'm sure... but... even saying that Win2K has been out since March of 2000, 3 years, thats almost a a patch a *DAY*!!
yeah, MS... they make stable secure software. Any day now those hackers are going to be gone... of course, it might be well after the next SQL Server hole is found, and your entire company's database is wiped out...
whoever made up that add has to be a n00b. hackers and crackers (wich i believe is the word they ment) are smart enuf that eventually they will be able to hack it. anything is hackable, it just takes sk1llz and time. plus, this is microshaft we are talking about. i mean, they make windows for crying out loud.
> "I allege that SCO is full of it" -Linus
Microsoft is good at making both their old software, and old hardware obsolete, along with hacking. .net on Windows 98, or read some CDs in a file system compatible with Win 98 but not NT 4+, then I'd say they are pretty darn good at making all sorts of things obsolete. .net, all the while them spouting about how it would make .dll hell disapear, make software for any Microsoft operating system including obscure ones like Windows CE Tablet, and not once did they mention that it wouldn't run on Windows 98.
When you can't read a file from the next version of MS Works in the previous one, or use MS
I was at a MS presentation of
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
As I suspected all along, Micro$oft was the leading cause of disappearance of dodo, woolly mammoth, sabre tooth tiger, and probably even the dinosaurs. Someone call PETA and WWF before they are done with hackers and whales!
Sig ?
Can we sue Microsoft based on the ad ?
I was forced to buy windows with notebook
and according to this ad it was supposed
to be safe but it was not!
I demand refund and a small compansation:
0.01% of the company profits.
is one that's disconnected from any network, and locked in a vault.
But I did appreciate the comic relief from MicroSoft.
Thriving? More like stagnating. There's not really much of a challenge. Just look at all the script kiddies going around these days. Maybe they mean "our software is so riddled with holes, real hackers need not apply".
Windows is a threat, how is that missleading? Please just up Mr Clarke.
Yours sincerely,
Decameron
diegoT
Who needs hackers when the Windows can exploit itself over and over again...
I believe it's called self-abuse... for the more techie, it's known as digital-masturbation.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
Holden: Yeah.
Banky: Good. Over here, we have a publicly accessible, secure, and intelligently maintained Windows server. Down here, we have a self-hating, angry as fuck, agenda of rage, bitter Solaris admin. Over here, we got Santa Claus, and up here the Easter Bunny. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first?
Holden: What is this supposed to prove?
Banky: No, I'm serious. This is a serious exercise. It's like an SAT question. Which one is going to get to the hundred dollar bill first? The male-friendly lesbian, the man-hating dyke, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny?
Holden: The self-hating admin.
Banky: Good. Why?
Holden: I don't know.
Banky: Because the other three are figments of your fucking imagination!
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0118842
"My God, this must be a truly remarkable corn chip, to be so widely and confidently touted."
"814078: Security Update (Microsoft Jscript version 5.6, Windows 2000, Windows XP) Download size: 361 KB
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to run programs on a computer running Microsoft® Windows®. The attacker would first have to send you an e-mail message or entice you into visiting a malicious Web site. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Once you have installed this item, it cannot be removed."
"I think you guys with quotes in your signatures should go have an original thought." -- Dan Miller
I would just like to take a moment to thank the moderators for recognizing my efforts. Thank you.
this is some marketing shmuck in M$ pulling what they do best , a publicity stunt. looks to me that we are the ones who need a reality check.
as another poster pointed out , oracle has the
unbreakable ads. heck every company advertises
their product as "the best", "the biggest innovation", "the change it all" - its called
marketing. agreed that in this case the disconnect between what they say and what is the truth is a little appalling.....
i guess the ASA was worried about PHB's and joe's being misled. well they are a decade or two, too late! The money is in the kitty and the people have already been misled
vv
I almost edited it correctly. It's Friday, I'm still working, and that is my excuse. :P
"My God, this must be a truly remarkable corn chip, to be so widely and confidently touted."
Mislead? Hell no - we were just joking. We're really just a big bunch of kidders. Hey, your fly is open!
Strong Bad is so awesome!
-- derby
Any logical person would conclude that what follows will be a conclusion presented by the advertiser, based on the afore-mentioned fact.
I have no doubt that some will argue that Microsoft software designers do not take security into consideration when designing software, or that Microsoft intentionally introduces security holes, so as to promote the purchase of upgrades to it's products (although msot security patches are distributed freely, think SUN and their policy of many years ago, requiring that companies wanting a bug fixes in Solaris were required to pay for the patch to be created).
The other issue is code change. The products to which the advertisement refers MUST be based on new code, because we know that in the past Microsoft did not design software with security in mind, because Craig Mindie said so:For this reason, IF the products are all based on new code, and IF you think that Microsoft would act in it's own best interest to sell more software and IF you believe that designing security in mind is likely to sell more product, then the ad is not misleading at all.
The key here is to see that Microsoft is NOT CLAIMING that their software IS SECURE they are claiming that they try to design it so that it is secure, and then draw the conclusion (however ridiculous it may be) that it is in fact more secure than a vault, but this is a conclusion, not a statement of fact.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
bahamat wrote: Does MS really think that people are too stupid to remember what happened less than 2 months ago?
You don't need to look that far back. Try this week. It seems as though Microsoft has an ongoing program to nurture and feed the *acker types of the world.
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
People can still run programs even if you updated.
God spoke to me
Maybe Microsoft is finally doing a Linux distribution.. Hmmmm.. Microsoft HP 2004, based on Slackware.. :)
Of course, they'll need their own happy bubbley interface.. Oh wait, didn't someone just do a good Microsoft clone for XF86?
All it needs is an automatic update manager, and it'd be perfect.. But knowing Microsoft, they'd mess that up somehow.. Magically, your kernel would turn to mush or something.. They just proved their excellence to that a few days ago.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
"Lies, Damn Lies, and Microsoft Adverts"
What is music when you despise all sound?
It's sad to see that there are always weak of mind people that are receptive to propaganda and nationalism.
In WW3, you should be fighting on the front lines for America. The world doesn't need scum like you.
From the article: Microsoft submitted documentation to substantiate its claims about the security of the software and said the advert was not designed to mislead the consumer.
Their substantiation is pretty fucking worthless IMHO, as long as the software includes a EULA that absolves Microsoft of any responsiblity should the software NOT be as secure as they claim.
~Philly
How many slashes would a slashdot dot, if a slashdot could dot slashes?
Evil l337 h4x0r: Mwah ha ha! I am going to break into this system, cause it to become slow and unreliable, trash lots of files, turn the security framework into pure unmanageable chaos, and make it send out IP packets violating several RFCs!"
(Typing...)
Elh: Ah, crap, it's already running Windows.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
I know, I know....you can switch right over from the "collateral damage" arguments to the "I guess the oil companies behind this war felt they needed someone to man the oil fields, so they didn't want that many killed" argument....
I think this is great. With this predcedent set, not only will Microsoft soon have to pull *all* its ads, so will 98% of the rest if the universe. With any luck, the entire media industry will come crumbling down. Maybe Microsoft has finally managed to start what Al Quaida was hoping to start - the end of western civillization as we know it.
Ah'm grabbin' mah gun and headin' ta mah bunker!
Anyone else notice a similarity of that guy on the advert with a certain (younger) William Gates? I think he might have had words with the advertising department, which is the real reason the advert was pulled (let's face it, an advert with misleading information isn't particularly unusual is it?) Wonder what the world would be like if he WAS obsolete though... (collapses into bliss).
... I guess
that they can stop all these spammers claiming that they can increase the size of my penis?
Microsoft Disclaimer: Please uplug all Cat-5 and/or modem cables from your system and do not connect to any networks, especially the internet in order to take full advantage of our "Hacker Exterminator" Technology. Wireless networking is included in this disclaimer. Thank you for choosing Microsoft.
The two oldmen from Muppet Show:
-- I believe this ad is true?
-- Huh?
-- They'll be secure in a billion years and we'll be all extinct!
I wonder how many crackers and script kiddies cut their teeth on Microsoft vulnerabilities. I'd wager that the vast majority of the black hats out there owe their "careers" to Microsoft software.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
You may have stumbled on to Microsoft's secret security strategy here.
- Release insecure software for over a generation.
- Watch 'real' hacker skills atrophy with time.
- Implement all the code fixes they have been secretly stockpiling in Bill's underground lair.
- MS systems become inpenetrable.
Maybe this is the real reason MS wants Linux eliminated, because it keeps hackers sharp.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
Hi! Maybe I didn't read the article carefully enough, but I was wondering anyone had a higher-dpi image of the ad! I want to put it up in our office next to my Slackware box - I love the image of the Hacker! It's hilarious!
What kinda crack you smokin biatch? Pom Pom's where it's at.
No, not really. Most firms are honest. Some firms exadurate, like Apple's famous "bicycle for your brain" hyperbole describing the Apple II or Oracle's "Unbreakable" advert. Microsoft, however is so dishonest that really large, generally clueless organizations notice:
When you get to the point where the postman. bankers and marketing droids notice you suck and lie about it, man, it's over.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Microsoft IS making hackers obsolete, because
a) Because of their user-friendly security you no longer need to be a hacker to break into computer systems
and
b) all the good hacker jobs are being driven offshore where they are filled by Bulgarian script kiddies.
Go Microsoft!
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
Actually, advertising regulations for mutual funds are super strict ( but then again, so are all the laws regulating mutual funds... but I digress). The SEC will fine you (well, your fund) big time if its advertisments violate regulations (clearly mentioning that any famous poeple in the ad are paid, guiding people to the prospectus, warning of risks, etc.)
also- the NASD regulates its member's advertising as well.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a securities lawyer, I'm married to a soon-to-be securities lawyer. All my knowledge comes from a paper she wrote for her Market Regulations class. If its any consolation, she got an "A".
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Actually, to make this true you would really just need to revise the End User Licensing Agreement:
By clicking "I agree" below, the user warrants that:
1. 'carefully designed' means 'cobbled together from papers we found in a dumpster at Xerox Parc in 1981 and have been trying to figure out ever since.'
----
2. 'Your company's valuable information' excludes any material represented on fixed or removable storage media, in any volatile or non-volatile memory, or intercepted network communications.
----
3. Microsoft warrants that the operating system will keep viruses from damaging the system. For the purposes of this agreement, 'virus' shall be defined as any file ending in '.txt' or '.jpg'
----
3. Microsoft warrants that the operating system will keep 'unauthorized people out.' For a person to be recognized as 'unauthorized' for the purposes of this agreement, they must be registered in a handwritten book at the corporate headquarters of Microsoft's Solomon Islands subsidiary. Names may be added to this book in person, between the hours of 8:00am and 8:10am on the eleventh of every month beginning with "F." By appointment only.
-------
Believe me, I'm as surprised by my comment as you are.
MS is right--hackers (okay, so it's "crackers") are obsolete, because with Windows, you don't have to be 3133t to break in.
Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
I can point to two big differences: reputation and quality. M$'s bad reputation is well earned. As for quality, people still remember that Microsoft products are not designed for security.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
"The 1974 Ford Pinto: Featuring a non-exploding gas tank!"
"Amtrak: No more deadly derailments, we promise!"
"Slashdot: Never a duplicate story!"
good, now i'm not the only one who think homestarrunner.com "it's dot com" is funny. i feel much better.
This post was brought to you by the number 584811 and the characters / and .
Technically speaking Gateway, as a result of the Escom buyout, which followed the Commodore buyout, owns the design patent on the two-button mouse. I kid you not.
Who would have ever thought that it'd be a Microsoft topic that'd bust the "+5 Funny" limit ?
bring in the script kiddies!
...The DMCA already did away with all the hackers.
how can the link that points to the reference in the (+4 Funny) parent and replies be moderated as "Offtopic"? in the context of the original article, maybe. but i think its good information for those that didn't get the reference.
I run windows (xp) on one of my two main workstations, which have had alot of things installed/uninstalled, and I haven't had a problem with "dll hell" since like windows 2000. Anyone can avoid this situation, IMHO by being careful about their installing software... which shouldn't you be anyways?
DISCLAIMER: I am not a gates-flunky, I am a slackware/freebsd backer, who sometimes uses software unfortunately not available on those platforms. I just figured dll hell was DOA.
good call... we'll sick Randy the Macho Man Savage on their asses..
"Microsoft software is carefully designed to keep your company's valuable information in, and unauthorised people and viruses out." This statement has a factual basis.
But you are mistaken and Microsoft knows it. Silly fanboy, grow a memory.
What do you call a consultant who recomends M$ for security of private information? A baldfaced liar.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Does MS really think that people are too stupid to remember what happened less than 2 months ago?
They don't just think it... They count on it.
For example, just pulled from the Microsoft outlook home page:
If you have Outlook version 2002, you already have industry-leading technologies helping to protect your data.
Evidently, Security Bulletin MS03-003 is some of that industry-leading technology.
guess microsoft got their days mixed up =P
It says so in the license!
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - Orwell
Maybe this is the real reason MS wants Linux eliminated, because it keeps hackers sharp.
Or maybe MS doesn't really want Linux eliminated but doesn't really mind the perception that it wants Linux eliminated, because it keeps hackers sharp.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
No, really. Hear me out.
Maybe they finally realize that hacker == "person who likes to tinker and discover things" and that cracker == "person who likes to break into things"
By accepting the "geek" definitions of these words, MS has let its true plans slip. Their new Palladium/TCPA/AYBABTU plans will stop _hackers_ since people won't be able to tinker and play with their computers anymore. Unless they're "approved" corporate drones working on "approved" projects. So, you see, they really are going to get rid of hackers, and I think it's a real shame.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
Don't they give MS authorization to go into your computer on a whim?
I dunno about you, but I don't give out the combination of my safe to anyone, including microsoft.
Well, it does look like Bill Gates, but I'm afraid the Borg Bill Gates is Trademarked. They had to settle for an undergraduate picture of him fresh from fishig basic source code out of the dumpster. It all kind of shows how much Microsoft values personal initiative and inovation in programers.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Alternative Title/Article
Microsoft: We Make Our Programmers Obsolete.
The article really reads: "Microsoft software is carefully designed to keep your company's valuable information open source at Microsoft, and unauthorised people and virii/worms in."
Which means your data couldn't be safer (unless you migrate to an open source operating system/applications or re-install Windows 3.11), even if you keep it in a Microsoft (TM) built safe (made of paper and duct tape). This is great news for the survival of our company (Microsoft). But tragic news for the uninformed suckers who purchase our products.
All that is required is the acceptance of our standard waiver of liability for installing Microsoft software, and the affirmation that your hardware & software belong to Microsoft... you just rent it.
When we (read: hackers/business users) find security holes in our software (read: spyware) we release download patches, amouting to about 10MB per week, and several reboots. This augers well with 56 K modem users who use Linux to dial their ISP (requiring MS-CHAP), when chap.secrets wont work. Don't concern yourself with patches to increase performance and reliability, we only release 'security' (cough) patches.
And to top it off, each new version of our software grows exponentially in size. The next version of Windows will require 2GB of hard disk space and 1024 MB of RAM to work as fast as it would have with Windows 98 and 64 MB of RAM. Never mind that you are doing exactly the same tasks, and the MS Office file format is ideantical in XP, 2000 and 97.
Microsoft programmers are first rate. They all get their qualifications with toys in breakfast cereal packets.
Prepare to be assimilated! Resistance is futile!
[In case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic. All hail Tux, commander of the USS Starship Future!]
I would have prefered to see the alternate add with the pictures of a unicorn, a mermaid, a pixie and a hacker with the caption;
"Just like the unicorn, the mermaid and the pixie, a hacker who cant compromise our operating systems just doesnt exist."
It just seems more appropriate to me...
"I'm tired of all this 'Aren't humanity great' bullshit. We're a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks
when I saw that headline...
I have never seen so many +5 funny(s) in my life...
No kidding they make hackers obsolete, now even my grandma could probably download some utils to r00t some poor unpatched wind0ze box...
It makes hackers laugh so hard, they can't even type. Thus, data is secure...sort of.
Microsoft must be really, really stupid to think that anybody is going to fall for that. The reliability of their software is a joke across the industry that EVERYBODY knows about.
Being an advocate of alternative software, I talk to a lot of people about Microsoft before I even mention that I advocate other stuff. I have never heard someone say that Microsoft's stuff is reliable. As a matter of fact, even the most naive computer users have stated plainly that Microsoft causes all kinds of trouble for them. It is a widely known fact.
So why would Microsoft make a stupid claim like this? My feeling is that they have a serious break in communication between their marketing department, which probably uses blueberry candy-apple Macs to make glossy, lickable presentations, and all other departments, which use UNIX for all of their operations because they know how much Windows sucks (because they made it) and refuse to use it.
'ta
Pretty much all of those holes were patched well before the exploits came out. Tards that don't patch will get fucked up, regardless of the OS. Zealot.
It's great that Microsoft's advertising claims were shot down in this case for being unjustifiable, but they've still got some other pretty nasty falsehoods floating around out there.
I don't know if this particular campaign is appearing at American schools, but certainly at Canadian universities, Microsoft has launched a fairly heavy ad campaign for academic-priced software (I've seen the ads at Waterloo and Simon Fraser.) The ads feature bold print saying "Getting software for any less would be illegal", and in smaller print, below: "90% off the estimated retail price!". (See a banner ad of it at the University of Waterloo computer store.)
Hmm... given that I've paid less than their listed prices for the software on my computer, I guess they're accusing me of breaking the law. It's too bad that a lot of their competition's software is still cheaper (e.g. I use OpenOffice, myself, but I'm pretty sure I could get a full-priced copy of StarOffice for less than the student-priced Office XP.)
I would love to see Sun start a competing campaign saying "Getting certain other software at these prices would be illegal. Save money and keep yourself out of jail: use StarOffice."
Ya right and hell just froze over. Isn't this kinda faults advetizing?
All our holes belong to us. We'll just call them terrorists and theives instead of hackers.....
The only extint I see in the future is Microsoft.
Hackers 1, Bill 0
"Linux: we make having a fucking life impossible."
Sure can! Real/32 can also. There are plenty that can. MS isn't one of them.
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
as long as there is consumer products, there will be someone exploiting them, It goes back to my old quote :: No matter how secure you think your box is someone can and will take it down...
For The Best Jazz/Hip-hop fusion > COlD DUCK
"(Cr|H)ackers" by definition are people skilled at breaching the security of systems to gain unauthorized access. With the kind of security MS's products provide, all you need is a script kiddie level of skill. No more need for that skill set. :)
Wait, let me guess ... Before the exploit code can execute, Windows blue screens?
I'll grant Slammer was like that.
But the second WebDAV exploit was not patchable before it was out in the open. Heck, it's only been out a few DAYS!
The new JScript bug is even newer than that.
Both these bugs are currently listed on the Internet Storm Center as pressing issues.
(-pi, Circular)
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
"The Advertising Standards Authority of SA (ASA) has ordered that a Microsoft ad implying that its software will bring about the extinction of the hacker is to be pulled for being "unsubstantiated and misleading"."
The m$ stuff is not shocking, but the fact that standards exist in advertising is.
To give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they meant an open safe, with a big arrow pointed towards it and the words "FREE STUFF!" spray painted on the wall. ;-)
...you are told you can not advertise your product as submited because everyone knows it does not function as promised.
Open Source; we make salaries obsolete.
Maybe someone should bring forth the litany of previous Unix exploits? Samba, Sendmail, various RPC flaws, telnet, shell issues, etc...
Windows has had some security issues lately, but Unix is a complete joke as far as security. The only things it does have going for it are:
a.) It's ancient so most of the flaws are finally worked out.
b.) Nobody _gives a shit_ about Unix so there aren't a lot of hackers out there targetting it.
More secure than a safe - if you leave the door open.
www.sjbaker.org
As far as I'm concerned the name Microsoft means
'Hackers find another security hole, its so easy'.
Yet another security patch for 98... good thing it's end of life is June '03. Then I won't have to worry about anymore patches.
The funny thing here is that independent verification isn't required unless everyone already knows the claim is a lie. Also worth noting is that a company with 1/1000th the cash that M$ has could get independent verification for anything they wanted (we've all seen the court cases where the sleazy side has their expert witnesses). Heck, even M$ bought some expert witnesses for their antitrust trial. But even M$ couldn't find anyone who was able to claim M$ software is secure with a straight face.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
From the article:
Laubscher says despite the decision, Microsoft fully maintains that its software is able to fulfil the task of keeping hackers and viruses out, making the customers' data safer than if kept in a safe.
I try to be open minded, but when you walk around with your foot hovering in front of your mouth, eventually, someone is going to push it in. This is worse that walking around with a "kick me" sign on your back, because they did it on purpose.
The claims they made are so over the top, its obvious their marketing dept. has lost all contact with the real world. No one with a pulse is stupid enough to believe it just because they said its true. This is insulting to their existing customers, who know better.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Actually, if you think about it, the bugs are not new, just our knowledge that the bug exists. And the new WebDAV proved that the bad guys find some of the bugs before the good guys. Imagine how bad SQL Slammer would have been if it was written and released BEFORE there was a bug report published and patches available.
In my universe I'm perfectly normal, it's not my fault you don't live in my universe.
Found a Reuters article on Yahoo that ties RIGHT in titled Microsoft to Fund University Virus Testing Course that you might want to look at as well. Very good timing, compliments this discussion.
Sendmail - granted.
Samba - even the protocol itself is rather bad.
Everything else - developed in a world when TCP/IP was trusted and users were trustworthy. And restricted to advanced computer users in the first place.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
Most firms are honest? What boulder have you been living under? Obviously you have never heard or seen ads by GEICO, numerous heath supplement companies, car manufacturers, beer brewers, fast food joints, shampoo makers, etc. Need I go on?
If you think that blatant lying in ads is the sole province of MS, you seriously need to get out of your room one day, and just look around. And if you indeed have done that, then you need to purchase some observation skills quick.
Had you faced Germany alone in WW2, you would be insulting me in German now... or not at all.
I'm not careful, because as a citizen of a civilized high-tech country, you have absolutely no explanation to attack me that your brain-amputated patriotes would buy.
Vive la France!
Unix is a complete joke as far as security.
I don't know what you mean by "Unix", but I'm assuming it includes all POSIX-compatable operating systems (including GNU/Linux, *BSD, etc). In that case, maybe you should look at OpenBSD. It's about as Unix as they come, being BSD-derived and all. Yet it is also one of the most secure general-purpose operating systems out there. In the past 7+ years, OpenBSD has had one remote root hole in the default install (the OpenSSH off-by-one hole, I believe) and a handfull of priviledge escalation holes and the like. Compare this to Solaris or Red Hat Linux, and you'll see that not all Unixes are the same.
a.) It's ancient so most of the flaws are finally worked out.
I agree here, but I think that the point deserves more elaboration. Many of the flaws in Windows and Windows-related products like IIS stem from fundamental design problems, the kind that only massive time and energy spent reworking can fix. For example, the fact that any NetBIOS-enabled Windows machine will send you its password hashes upon request (by getting the machine to retrieve a remote file:// url) has been acknowledged by Microsoft as a pretty much unfixable design flaw. Similarly, the IIS URL parsing mechanism is overly complex, leading to holes like the Unicode ../../ problems. With Unix, most of the fundamental design issues have been worked out or worked around. True, there are still a few fundamental problems; the inflexible permissions system and the fact that many things run as root just to get one specific priviledge (ping, daemons, etc) come to mind. But most of the flaws in Unix programs come from buffer overflows, format string vulnerabilities, unchecked perl open() calls, and the like: little, isolated errors that are easy to make and almost as easy to fix.
b.) Nobody _gives a shit_ about Unix so there aren't a lot of hackers out there targetting it.
This point blatantly contradicts the others. If Unix is so unimportant, why (according to point a) have there been so many flaws found and fixed? Besides that, have you looked at how many companies are into Linux these days? I think that Red Hat, IBM, and HP (just to name a few) would disagree with your statement that "Nobody _gives a shit_ about Unix". With the release of Mac OS X, Unix is now also a popular desktop OS with a significant market share. As for "hackers" (I'll assume you meant crackers) targeting Unix, take a look at any security-related mailing list and you'll see that many Unix-related flaws are researched and found, and often exploited. Crackers and script kiddies do care about Unix (it accounts for over half of all webservers*, for example), and this is why so much effort has gone into and will continue to go into securing Unix.
*Netcraft says that 64.19% of sites run Apache, but does not mention the OS distribution. Since most Apache installs are on Unix systems, and since there are also some non-Apache Unix webservers, I figured that saying 50% was more than reasonable.
Is that when I went to view this article, a Microsoft ad was right underneath it...
--etrnl
Why stop fools from making fools of themselves. It's funny to watch. I would have much rather "ROFLed" seeing this ad in print than read this story.
-... ---
In other news... the collapse of the Soviet Union has NOTHING to do with America being the "greatest patriotic motherfuckers that ever walked the planet"
And still in other news...
80% of Americans are indeed motherfuckers, which was confirmed by a white thrash woman living in a trailer park.
This message may appeal to naive purchasers, but does not address real-world threats. Most corporate fraud is committed by insiders. Microsoft is proposing an overly simplistic threat model: the villains are outside the wall. In reality, villains inside the wall account for greater damage.
This advertisement tells us quite a bit. Microsoft has indirectly revealed breath-taking advances in huge ball-enlargement technology.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Had we faced them alone, those Krauts would have been sent home packing like the rest. No one can ever dream of defeating the blinding sunshine of American fury. Bitch.
since the add was for an OPERATING SYSTEM and not for an APPLICATION, I fail to see the relevance
No, actually, you fail to see the relevance because you're a complete fucking moron.
read the quote: "Microsoft software is carefully designed..." The specific ad might (or might not) have been for an OS, but the wording implies applications as well.
at least we dont have to hear that "linux is so secure" bullshit anymore
On the whole, it's not bullshit - Linux is more secure.
But the whole damn point of this is that MS is claiming that their software is completely secure. Show me ad advertising campaign for Linux that says the same, or go climb back under your rock.
I guess you guys didn't read the extra fine print. It says that the user must... 1. Use a hardware firewall with both incoming and outgoing ports blocks.
2. Use Mozilla instead of IE and Outlook Express.
3. Have two anti-virus programs that checks for updates every five minutes.
4. Sanitize all floppy disks with magnets before use.
5. Check for and download Windows updates daily, unless the updates undoes the previous fix (e.g. Slammer) or breaks the Windows. Consumers should buy a second system and a second copy of Windows.
6. Leave the system off. If you must use your computer, try your local library computer lab. If you must use your home computer, turn it on just long enough to do your business and turn it off when finished. Note that acorrding to EULA, by merely turning on the system, you are acting against the recommandation of MS and therefore, MS is not liable for any damages.
7. Upgrade to the new version of Windows as soon as it is released. Delete your old partition and do a clean install as the new and improved Windows magically wipes away your past problems.
8. If you get hacked with the latest version of Windows, that probably means that you are a pirate.
9. If you are not a pirate, that means that you must have violated one of the clauses above and MS shall not be held liable.
10. If you followed all the clauses above, by EULA, you must submit the problem to us, so that we can put a clause excluding your error in the future EULA (to be installed with the next patch) so that MS MS shall not be held liable. If you do not submit your error, you are in violation of EULA and MS shall not be held liable.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Try our good friend CleverNickName
Karma: Non-Heinous
but the ad says: "No everybody benefits from our secure software", Now my question is :
How is M$ software involved in the extinction of the dodo,the wooly mammoth and the sabre tooth tiger??????
Any suggestions?
"Windows hackers extinct! Now if we could only get rid of the generation of script kiddies we've created."
N/T
Each key on a keyboard is unique, with a different symbol, and thus a different use.
On a single button mouse, a single click is unique, and a double click is unique, as is a click and drag or a click and hold.
With two buttons, then there's a question: Which button to use in any situation? With three buttons, you've also got to worry about two button combos (keyboards have combos!)
So in a sense, it's just less training. The Mac OS is designed to be sufficient with a single mouse button, and every additional button and scrollwheel is acceleration.
The Windows OS is *not* designed to be sufficient with a single mouse button. Rather, it's extremely inconvenient to use only a single mouse button.
On the *flip* side, the Mac has not traditionally been designed to be run mouseless (OS X may be more so, but I haven't tested that capability), while Windows has been designed from the ground up to be navigable without a mouse. Not terribly pretty, but it works.
So the bitching about a single mouse button is wasted energy; if you're using a Mac, you don't need more, though you are certainly welcome to use more if you want it, while on Windows (and Linux) it's just different, not worse, not better.
GPL Deconstructed
I just received a link to this PCWorld article which says they are paying Universities to teach students how to hack into software, supposedly to learn how to "fix" design flaws!
Which is it going to be?
Would be totally immune to such weapon ... unless he saw someone who looked very similar to Ricky Martin.
What about Palladium or TCPA? Trusted computing blah blah. They want to enforce that on us. Why? Because they are incapable to come up with a secure OS. So they want to enforce secutiry through hardware.
Hey Microsoft (Intel & others). I will *never* but a computer with TCPA or Palladium. I'd rather buy Dragon chip powered computers from China.
Wake up. Users are not that stupid.
When you're moving back to a system that you had just moved from.
Does anyone have higher resolution images from the advertisement? I'd like to get it framed :)
Don't worry, we hate you all as well.
Just shows how low the media whores in this country. No objection to printing that in Time magazine. An African country can see the absurdity of these ads and force retractions, but not here.
Now you've pissed a bunch of hackers/crackers off. Let's see how many exploits they can find now.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
I'm not from US, either.
Claiming to be secure is pretty laughable when coming from Microsoft. But his isn't the first bonehead ad they've run.
I mean with all of the patches that they put out almost on a daily basis, why would they pick a butterfly (a bug) for their MSN mascott?!
Maybe I have a sick mind but Microsoft choosing a bug for a mascott just strikes me funny.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Remember when El Presidente went to Congress to get authorization to go to war? It was because there was supposed to be an immediate threat. Months passed, and the "immediate" part was forgotten as the USA went to the UN to try get other countries to pay for their war. Now that the war has started, the "immediate threat" condition is down the memory hole.
Hackers: "We Prove Microsoft Obsolete"
--
ACid
Tell a big enough lie and people will believe you.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Hackers: We make Microsoft obsolete.
Real hackers that is.. people who write Free Software.
"Microsoft software is carefully designed to keep your company's valuable information in, and unauthorised people and viruses out. Which means that your data couldn't really be safer, even if you kept it in a safe. Which is great news for the survival of your company. But tragic news for hackers."
Obviously Microsoft does not value grammar:
1. You can't start sentences with "which".
2. "But tragic news for hackers." is an incomplete sentence, and so, is wrong.
Perhaps instead of lying about how safe their software is, they should work on improving Microsoft Office's grammar checker.
-Dae
"Alle reden vom wetter. Wir nicht." - SDS Sozialistischer Deutscher Studentenbund.
j00 4r3 3n73r1ng l337 w0r1d.
Hahahahahahaha! American fury. Everyone knows you're a country of weaklings anyway. Keep crying about your lost skyscrapers, you little weenies.
If you own me, why do I drive a better car than you?
Just be careful that those rabid niggers that roam your streets don't overrun you.
The reason hackers are obsolete is now you don't need to skill of a hacker to break Windows, any old Joe can do it now (and you don't even need to try hard!)
I've started back on some old VB code where I work, and this time I have a file on my Linux box, VBWinges.txt, to vent my frustration in. I have about 1Gig left in /home where this resides. I wonder how long before I run out of space.
The sound of me coding VB goes something like routine swear words followed by rigorous typing on the Linux box as VBWinges.txt grows another few hundred bytes.
Last thing it did was decide it couldn't save my modified form because I didn't have the project file checked out.
Another major frustration has been the following
Create new Class file
Asked to add it to SourceSafe
SourceSafe or something sees the 8.3 DOS filename
8.3 name not the same as real name
Asked if I want to move it
Click yes
File gets deleted
Operation aborts, and file is lost
Go in to SourceSafe directly to add file
Manage it somehow (same 8.3 problem)
Hand hack project file in VIM.
Restart VB to see efects.
Gates must be nostalgic for when he was a little nerdy guy with a "kick me" sign on his back... he has just fit himself with the biggest "kick me" sign in the history of computer geeks.
I have not love for Microsoft, but ooch!!
I guess they're asking for it...
Kraut technology would have blown you away before you even could spell "V2".
Remember NT Server 4.0 achieving DoD C2 Certification?
Remember how MS touted this certification to the world, saying that if it was good enough for the U.S. Dept. of Defense, then it is good enough to be run anywhere on the Internet?
Remember how we found out that the C2 certification applies to a computer ***with no LAN/Internet connection?***
That C2 line smeared thick BS over the eyes of many an IS manager. I can think of several offhand that converted entirely because of that certification.
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. --John Wayne
anyone know the ISA Server's track record? I hear it's very secure and it's firewall engine inspects packet data and not just source and destination address. Didn't they win a secure computing competition recently using the ISA server?
Your thoughts are appreciated
Hardly anyone who programs windows could hack there way out of a paper bag. ;)
I joke, barely.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think it's funny that I got an OSDN advert at the start of this story, instead of the .net advert that slashdot's been running.
Where is the "official" post: ;)
In Soviet Russia, hackers make Microsoft obsolete
... because our stuff is easy enough for skript kiddies to break in to.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Someone put up a scan of this ad, preferably one that can be blown up or at least is higher res than the one in the article. It's just too funny.
I need a copy of that to put up in my computer security lab.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
It's a true ad in the sense that you don't need a hacker (talented individual) to get to someones system. Any child can do it.
Wow, that was fucking funny. Really fucking clever.
A: War Is Peace was taken ;)
Stallan once said if you stated a lie long enough it would become true
"If you say it three times, it's true."
Lewis Carroll - "Alice In Wonderland"
Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
I agree that the one-button mouse is absurd, but I started with PCs and currently use Macs and PCs roughly equally. Most of the people I know who've used Macs from the start have no problem with a one-button, given that Ctrl-click performs the same function as a right click.
;-)
I guess it all depends on what you're used to. I'm typing this message on my new PowerBook, and after the first couple of days I've hardly given it a second thought. I can certainly see where you might be annoyed by it, but it seems a shame that you consider it to be a deal breaker.
Another thing to bear in mind is that you always have the option of plugging in any USB 3-button mouse- no drivers required. When I'm at a desk using a full keyboard and mouse the mouse is a Compaq (Logitech) 3-button scroll mouse which works like a champ for me. Additionally, I know that Kensington makes some pretty amazing trackballs that are Mac-only, so there's really no dearth of multi-button options.
To each his own, of course.
BTW, I'd love to see your ad idea produced, but they'd have to find a way to include a couple of lingerie-clad women having a catfight.
-Cybrex
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
Especially when the text currently reads:
/inc/copycode.asp, line 264"
"Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
It's still happening right now! Hilarious ad from MSFT, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually an Onion pardody though. =) I guess it being from MSFT makes it even more hilarious.
see, now I've used three button mice with AIX, two and three button mice with windows, and one button mice with mac.
I can't see any advantage to having all three buttons on the mouse except to cause repetetive stress injuries faster.
with the ctl and alt buttons on the mac, (laptop I might add,) I have been able to avoid repetetive stress injuries that plagued me as a windows and UNIX user in the past. my wrists thank me for using a mac.
what's your problem? wrist pains got you down???
some of us have better luck with women and cars, but hey, I work for a circus.
cheers!
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
The result of this evaluation is that both products are not safe to use on the Internet and as a public terminal:
(Read it yourself.)
So Windows is indeed certified to be hacker-proof, unless you connect it to the Internet, or the hacker is unwilling to cooperate.
Hope this isn't redundant, So, I went to the first link mentioned and nothing. I'm thinking /. effect is taking place, just come back later... so I do, and what do I see, but a VB script error. No story.
Here's a link I found on Google to the story on another site - all africa.com
VB script error? Man, I'm just going to shake my head and get some sleep.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
What has Microsoft introduced a new licensing scheme? Are the hackers are now forced to upgrade their software every 6 months.
I would think the following words would also be applicable:
What's even more criminal is the poor English:
Which is great news for the survival of your company.
They never said anything about locking the safe.
Always read the fine print... even if it isn't there.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Although the concept of wanting to make hacking impossible in time is a commendable one,despite the near comedic boast of Microsoft. I wish them luck in this,and it's luck they will need,because the enemy they face is not merely "hackers",but...
Human Nature.
For every person trying to achieving the mythic "Good Thing",to bring to the world something useful and wonderful,pouring their time energy and sweat in pursuit of some happy dream of an idea,for every person trying to contribute to the betterment of their fellow human...
There are a thousand assholes who will break,hurt,interfere with,muddle,malign,and oppose anyone not because it will benefit themselves,not because of misconceived righteous indignation,not with tangable reason.
But because it's F-U-N. Grief play. Entertaining to make the worms wriggle when you are only a worm yourself.Sad,true.But it might be possible to drag these muck dwellers to the shores of enlightment by making such acts of hacking punishable like real crimes.Theft is theft,sabotage sabotage.Throw enough of them in jail and maybe the rest might take the hint.
Or maybe not.It's Human Nature after all.
You forgot:
- Profit!!!
The reason MS makes hackers extinct is because their software offers no challenge to crackers. Thus, the all take up competitive knitting or l33t carpentry instead.
Unix already has a WOFS;
/dev/null
it's accessed via
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Microsoft software comes pre-hacked.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Goes right along with the MS switcher campaign :)
Besides, their own development team has no clue how to track down security bugs so they actually depend on independent hackers to find them for MS.
I bet you really meant this:
Besides, their own development team has no clue how to track down security bugs so they actually depend on independent hackers to find them for MS, and then try to call them such inflammatory statements as terrorists, try to give them jail sentences that are heavier than murderers, or coerce the community into shutting up about security holes as a fix, all in the name of expanded prosperity for one company.
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
I expect that MS will claim soon that they can do exponential type problems in O(1) time just by running MS software. * correct answer is optional pack available at 1 tirllion US$.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
so the door is left wide open?
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
AND ...
we have bigger dicks too.
so there!
be an ultimate recycler - buy an old used car every year
Some security there.
Yah, definitely, I know what you mean. Like, I tried using Mr. Clean once, but no burly bald cartoon character came to clean my floors for me. I mean, wtf!?!
It's sarcasm, genius. Also, when ads say "if our prices were any lower, we'd be insane" they're not actually accusing you of being insane if you purchased the product at a lower price.
... when I tried to read the article, but somehow it does seem like it explains it all:
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
/inc/copycode.asp, line 264
power, .controll.
we'll all be 'obsolete', if the pathology is not intervened on.
"We should all look into the real motives of those who now own the world, beyond the nation states, even beyond oil contacts, market profiteers, and, of course, "democratization" of "rogue" nations notwithstanding. The reality is that a small power elite has become the only "necessary" section of the human species to keep the corporate entity growing and replace biological intelligence. And this itself will hold only for a "transitional" stage. It will hold true only during the tranfer of purely biological evolution to something less dependant on narrow physical and chemical conditions of life and consciousness. It's like the human species is giving birth to something else, a cosmic monster that will supersede it. Once the corporate entity has become able to function and grow without even the outlet of consumer markets, as it has somehow for a large part already, it won't need any longer the alibi of a product to manufacture or a service to render in order to exist. Already, many corporate entities don't even bother. Purely financial/speculative "businesses" thrive around the world, and nobody knows exactly what they are providing as far as human livelihood is concerned. At some point in the near future, even the Bushes and their Carlysle clique may become irrelevant, and that may be our only consolation. Put simply, I think the human species is on the verge of having run its course in the history of evolution."
we're suggesting more frequent consultation with yOUR creator, during times of fear, uncertainty, & doubt.
get the ghettodilta.swf It be funny.
Only idiots will want to use it
Mod parent to: (Score:5, Irrational & Paranoid)
OMG, that is the f!$^in funniest thing :)
Just tried to read the article on the link... got this error Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d' Type mismatch: 'Ubound' /inc/copycode.asp, line 264
Hmm..kinda funny..this has been hacked or better yet it's another msoft screwup
HACKERS make MICROSOFT extinct
this sig steers like a cow. and i can prove it
Microsoft.
We get rid of hackers by making it so that you only
need to be a script kiddie to break into our systems.
-Adam
Such good timing I would say ....
http://196.30.226.221/sections/software/2003/03032 00801.asp?A=%&O=F
The Micro$oft marketing machine is the most powerful psychological warfare system in the world. It has been called up for the duration but is unfortunately sitting in ships off the coast of Turkey at present.
Previous successes of this unit include...
Panama and the capture of Noriega
Selling sand to the Kuwaiti government to provide barriers on the Iraqi border.
Ice making machines to the Inuit community
Sh1t to pig farmers worldwide
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
They have had it for years. You press the f8 key as it boots. No services are runing in safe mode so you can't get online or do anything. So that must be microsofts secret weapon. When noone is looking they throw a master switch behind microsoft's secret development door and 'poof' all computers running windows slip to safe mode adn there are no more security leaks. The precurser to this strategy was when they had the update in OLE where noone could open an attachment, to help enhance security, and never told anyone about the new security feature.
The laughter is overwhelming - so far there's 57 +4/5 Funny comments.
"Smithers, are they laughing at me?"
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
For a moment I thought that the Advertising Standards Board had actually helped Microsoft out. I mean, had Microsoft been allowed to proclaim that MS software is hacker-proof, it would have had the inevitable effect of encouraging every black hat hacker in the world to devote themselves entirely to attacking Microsoft.
Then I remembered: they already are.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Microsoft: We Make Hackers Obsolete cuz Any idiot can hack windows.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Let's remember here that this is yet another company who happily ignores security holes until its too late, and only after somebody high profile (or just a lot of people) gets cracked, they release the fix. We make hackers obsolete... indeed.
This sig no verb.
There's a reason for every marketing move Microsoft makes. Deciphering the corporation's intent may not be easy or precise but is necessary.
The depiction is one of the majority of users of Microsoft products, a person who is put off by
Microsoft abandoned two generations of their developer community with .NET. Most of them were white males in the U.S. This new start puts everyone in the global workforce at the start of a new race to learn Microsoft .NET technology. Microsoft has decided that the existing Microsoft developer base is disposable. Part of this marketing scheme is to tar members of that community with a broad brush, depicting them as potential "hackers".
While it is likely that a Microsoft "hacker" (someone who breaks into Microsoft-designed systems) is a member of the set of white middle-aged older Microsoft users, that only follows because a priori most Microsoft developers are in that group (e.g., there are an estimated 3 million Visual Basic developers - if only 0.1% were "hackers", that would be 1,000 hackers!).
Also check http://dakin.be/~gryp/microsoft_rules I scanned an advertising from Microsoft "Competing with Linux" See for yourself...
In Holland someone sued M$ Netherlands for this commercial. You can read it in this article (dutch). M$ lost the case, so sue them in all countries! :-)
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
/inc/copycode.asp, line 264
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
lol!
wrong.
I don't need elementary school but that doesn't mean it's going away. I don't need training wheels on my bike but that doesn't mean they're going to stop making training wheels. I don't need one of those cool little sippy-cups, a bib (well, okay, sometimes), a booster seat, rails on my bed to keep me from falling out, etc, etc, etc, but NONE of that stuff is going away.
I don't need cartoons or flashy graphics on my TV shows and movies, but damn it I want them and they better not go away.
I've never had a guy in a butterfly suit on my computer, except for Arthur (from the Tick, a cartoon with flash graphics), but I think he was a moth.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
I can't believe a right-minded person would be claiming the US government should practice more censorship. Are you suggesting that every ad should pass a government board of approval before being printed? Under the Bush regime, you might have some difficulty advertising for "The West Wing" under those rules.
SA, like some other countries (for example Germany) don't allow direct comparisons without substantative proof. So, saying your software was safer than it would be in a safe is a problem. This kind of policty seems like a great idea at first, but it prohibits humorous applications such as this one. It also leads to those bland "versus Brand X" type commercials the US used to have.
No, I can't say that I'm for any kind of government power to remove ads like this. It isn't a good thing for us in the long run.
Here is another story where Microsoft asks colleges to teach hacking . http://idg.net/ic_1236724_9677_1-5043.html
So that's the killer app they have been working on.
We are the people our parents warned us about.
Most people, present company on slashdot excluded, believe what they read or see. Two months ago is a long time in the media world. So yes, I believe the MS marketing machine is BANKING on people forgetting what happened last week ... much less two months ago.
My $.02
To rewrite it
Make a difference - use Windows! (open source clone of Windows NT)
True -- but in that sense, "obsolete" may not be the best word choice.
But let's not kid ourselves: Much better! Now let's remember E.B. White's immortal directive: "Omit needless words." Thus: There ya go. Pro bono.That's funny because the definition for "hacker" states: "...A slang term for a computer enthusiast, i.e., a person who enjoys learning programming languages and computer systems and can often be considered an expert on the subject(s)..." So in theory wouldn't MS be making their own obsolete?
I'd agree, but considering the fact that improvements on the single-button mouse include the round mouse, sometimes ya just have to wonder..
Their ad generated three green lines when using Word 2000 grammar check.
Microsoft Exchange Directory service which failed to start because of the following error:
The operation completed successfully.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
How can you hack a computer that is always frozen or rebooting from a crash.
lies as usual. with a three week change control window my company needs almost half a year to implement the patches released just so far, provided they don't kill the apps. lies, lies, and more lies! MS should, for the benefit of all, just go out of business - nothing good has ever come out of this place. Macdonalds of computing
Heh, like the Wiki philosophy. If anyone can blow your data away with no skills whatsoever, no one will bother trying to "break" in.
Slashdot could take a lesson from this. It wasn't until they started trying to use technical measures to "defeat trolls" that the trolls and crapflooders really started to kick it into high gear. At least it looks like the crapflooders got bored, and all that's left are some pretty high quality trolls.
Everyone get together and hack anything that Microsoft presents on that. Let's make them look extra, extra dumb this time. Of course, I'm not saying I'm gonna break any law, cause i'm not, I'm just saying it would be funny.
stuff |
When trying to read the article in question:
/inc/copycode.asp, line 264
;-)
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
Maybe the secret is that there's no point in hacking something that doesn't work anyway...
We're banging our heads against the wall, but it's just good advertising strategy. Hitler once said something to the effect that people are more likely to believe massive lies than much smaller ones. Microsoft security is much like swiss cheese or Iraqi buildings or the tax code for rich people: full of holes that aren't going to get fixed unless someone really does something drastic.
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
Who "took out", as you say, 3000 of *your* civilians? From the victims of the WTC attack only a minority were actually US citizens. This wasn't an attack on the USA but the US administration exploit it as such for their questionable political aims.
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
Better invest in a GOOD Intrusion Prevention System (IPS), not those ineffectual Intrusion Detection System (IDS), which are inherently an I&T money-pit.
Snicker (evil laughter) Muuu-aaaaahHaHahHahaaaaa!
(h4ck3r-w4nn635 need not apply, so no links for you!)
my earlier comment.
my pet machine
This is actually offtopic in an offtopic thread, but yeah, that name rules!
I laughed so hard I almost puked when I read this.
LOL
I (being a Linux User) agree that many many things could be more end-user friendly in their configuration.
:-)
However, Linux still has the edge over Windows:
* you can always go down to editing config files with your favourite editor. No matter how nice the GUI tools may be, sometimes they may be broken. Regedit is much less comfortable --- if it can help you!
* Linux is quite consistent. This is not very true on the GUI level (KDE, Gnome, etc), I grant you that, but it's true at the configfile level
* The online help is usually extensive, clear and readable. You can even look into the code (usually) for checking really obscure behaviour --- in 99.99% you won't, though, 'cause you'll find your answer in the documentation.
Of course, for a well-trained Windows-user (RRRR --- Retry. Restart, Reboot, Reinstall) finding that this is no good solution anymore might classify as hell
Because there's nothing in France worth having, your foul hair-covered women included.
You probably would succeed
No shit.
be prepared to have a few of your big cities nuked as a response
Yeah right. Hope they work better than that Maginot line you fucktards built. I'd hate to be Spain, though, you'll probably hit them.
Fact is, you Frogs need to learn to either do something or shut your stinking holes. Either way, stay the hell out of our way.
"The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper." - Thomas Jefferson
My, how far we've come. I wish more people took the time to return or reject charges for things which don't perform as advertised, but I'm guilty myself. It's just corporate america dicking thousands of people out of a few buck each...
They sure knows how to keep their data secured. This is what i get when i try to read the article:
/inc/copycode.asp, line 264
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a000d'
Type mismatch: 'Ubound'
Maybe they mean crackers? They will become extinct because of M$'s clever copy protection...
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law
Does this mean that M$ finally fixed their 90 minute auto-reboot bug/feature?
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law
.... it is because of microsoft that the hackers have a job at all...
jeezuz what kinda arrogant and foolish company must microsoft be, that they come up with bullshit claims like that.
In the correct sense of the word "hackers", they are absolutely right. Microsoft aims to make thier apps so "easy to use" that they eliminate the need (and the ability) to hack things. Their goal is to sell to average desktop users and average business owners, so that they can do things without having to hack and tweak with things. This is the reason Microsoft is so successful.
Unfortunately this "dumming down" produces many security holes, runtime errors, and eliminates the freedom we enjoy with Unix/Linux/BSD. This business model also moves software away from the 31337 h4x0r$ like us, and makes it nice and shiny and "easy."
This is fine, and useful, however the problems are: Many MS programs are notoriously bug ridden (IE, IIS, Exchange, Windows, etc.)
In thier quest for global domination, the code is top secret, and the programs loose much of their hackability. It is a good analogy to say it is "like a car with its hood welded shut."
Sorry if I duped anyone.
P33(,
Arthur K.
Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
Microsoft - Our Adverts make Hackers more determind?
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
it was said "Does MS really think that people are too stupid to remember what happened less than 2 months ago?"
I respond that it seems, sadly, to work for the U.S. Prez.
And in both cases, the back reference needn't be limited to a single recent event; but a lifetime history of persistence.
What's it about "if you can't win them with flattery, persuade them with b*s*" ??
> I try to be open minded, but when you walk around with your foot hovering in front of
> your mouth, eventually, someone is going to push it in.
Sadly, many of Microsoft's customers aren't going to realize that MS's foot is actually in its mouth until and unless they actually see the toes protruding from the rectum.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Er. Um. Linux is consistent on the config file level?
Consistent across versions, I assume you mean. Because if you take a look at, say, the config file for inetd, and the config file for sendmail, and the config file for named, and you consider them 'consistent', I can't imagine what the common elements are.
They're all text files? They all can be edited with the same programs? They're all next to impossible to understand or edit unless you have a huge tutorial and a bunch of reference guides open while you're doing it?
That's a KIND of consistency, I guess.
(Sadly, even those generalizations are not really true. You CAN edit sendmail.cf, but of course you're not supposed to. You're supposed to edit the bunch of macro files and then compile them into a sendmail.cf. Sadly, I find those files even less intelligible than sendmail.cf itself.)
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Either way, you are right that MS is proving that once again their "solution" to real problems are pretty words that themselves encompass the wrong direction of problem solving. Sounds like the craphole where I work. When things go wrong, they send in some bullshit artist to "talk down" those with the problems and will ONLY actually solve the problem internally (fix the code, update documentation, etc) unless a potential security violation would cause a lack of accreditation. Quality is NEVER an issue if you can just waste tax payer dollars and sit on charge numbers... yay ethics and honor!
whatever the 'hackabilitystatus' of microsoft software may be, i like the add, why did they have to withdraw it? i remember an ad for a cereal on tv, where a cartooncharacter jumped out of the box and let the children who ate that stuff ride on a flying carpet, so that is misleading too, because the retailpackage of the cereal did neither contain living cartooncharacters nor flying carpets and nobody complained. If you dont expect advertisement to be exaggerating, you cannot have been living on this planet for long.
On the other hand some decent wikis have had many problems with assholes blowing away the entire knowledge base on a regular basis because they could. In most cases the admins had decent backups and the data was restored quickly, but it is still a massive annoyance.
Sort of like tagger behavior, never underestimate the power of being able to point at something stupid and destructive and say "I did that"
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
consider this theory:
:o)
1. 'hackers' are specialist, these people are masters of their choosen field of study.
2. 'script kiddies' is a term to that is constantly applied to 'hackers'.
3. 'script kiddies' is also a term coined for how to tweak/crack/hack/break/abuse microsoft products, and by the people that are able to do it. in some cases it can be proved that above actions are an improvement to the orginal product, but this will be left up to the reader to reasearch.
therefore it is at this point that hackers become extinct; with respect to microsoft.
q.e.d.
No worries. Microsoft's software gets hacked before they even release it.
In addition to lying about wireless, there was also the issue of lying about MS-Passport.