Couples. (driven by the incestant nagging of the fem party)
I caught it on hbo about 2 years after it was out, unbearable. Kate Winslet is hot, but not hot enough to deal with the "ultra hot sweet underdog guy" plot. Its the personification of every meg ryan movie ever made, I can do without that.
The only way I could quantify the problem with that movie is to give an example:
Imagine a movie that was designed purely to attract a male audience. Gore, Action, Hot women doing completely unreal things, gadgets etc
How many straight women do you think would like that kind of movie ? Not many you say ? EXACTLY.
PS - the acting between winslet and little man was horrible, you would have more chemistry between a board and a nail.
Fuck that. Original Sin. Full Frontal. Gia, Lesbian.
Hackers was a good movie, just like swordfish and several other movies that had "uber hacker" theme's. The problem is anyone who knows VB or HTML thinks they are a hacker and acts offended when people misuse the word, or try to pigeon hole the culture.
Get over it. If you wanna bitch about the movie then you are obligated to take up the fight with the media about the misuse of the word "hacker". I have fought this battle, its frustrating.
I wasnt making a statement about slashdot being a large or small percentage, I was reffering to Linux users as a whole being a small percentage. The mixup occured because I thought I stated that, but didnt. (must use preview...)
However the OP has a valid point, how does gartner track users of whitebox's or people who wipe a windows machine with a downloaded OS ? (that is the only point I was trying to make -- surveys, statistics etc are all bullshit)
And basically you cant assume that anyone is like you. R
that's why proper polls are necessary to come up with any figure.
Yet you fail to respond to the fact that there is no fucking way to come up with accurate numbers regarding this shit. Base it on sales and it skews a large percentage of the market (not everyone who builds a computer or buys a whitebox from a friend is counted.). Base it on.... whatever it doesnt matter there is no 100% in this situation because there are to many variables.
"We" are not the only group of people who use linux.
how the fuck does slashdot have a damn thing to do with this ? Slashdot is a website, thats it. I was using linux for 3 years before I had even heard of slashdot. Most people I know still dont know about it, and if they do there is no guarantee that they will actually come to it and read it.
Saying that you know something because it is obvious is foolish. Also I asked very specifically for some kind of logic -- that noone can provide because there is no way to provide it. There are to many variable's. I can produce anecdotal evidence to support whatever bullshit statistics or theories I come up with.
how do you know we are only a small percentage ? Do you have hard data about that ? How about from places like china ?
Mom and Dad might not use linux in your family, but they do in mine. So do quite a few people I know. The problem is very simple: there is no way to track usage of linux.
this firm estimated 2.8% of computers shipped last whatever ran linux when all was said and done. What if triple that number were built and had linux installed via a download ? or were ms machines but were wiped and had linux installed ? How do you estimate this ?
I would say worldwide linux runs 6% of desktops, mac 3%. that puts ms at about 90%, thats what I would assume. If I call it a statistic would anyone believe me ?
really ? Only 10 million ? I would venture a guess that there are a lot more "hobbyist's" out there than you think, how else do you explain so many computer store, parts suppliers etc...
I have 8 computers here, they all run linux. Most people I know use linux for something (although we tend to be younger and more technical types) those 8 for me have to count as 8 individual desktops since I am sure the 300 running windows at the local university count as 300 for windows. Point being -- I built 6 of my computers and bought two with windows installed, how the hell do they know that my 8 are running linux ? or even that I have 8 ?
The answer is: they dont. They estimate based on shipments from major/mid-major manufacturers.
We all knew that MS controlled the OEM market, that was a major reason for the anti-trust trial ?
Agreed. I think the problem lies with two main factors:
Most of the main projects now have a majority of developers who were raised and taught in a Microsoft environment, hence they mimic windows.
Most of the major projects are headed by ego maniacs who want nothing more than to be on the cover of wired. Accomplishing this has a copy-cat is a lot easier than doing it the right way, or by doing it your own way.
The very premise of all microsoft software should make any engineer cringe "usability at all costs". Its a nasty nasty road to go down. Especially when expectations are as high as they are. (and rising.)
There is no balance in the OSS community, you have your raving evangelists: RMS, Theo etc And your coporate sell outs: Linus, Icaza, etc
One of the major reasons I wish someone like Bill Joy would get involved. People who do it because they want to.... not to get rich, famous, powerful or to force your ideals on other people.
I think I speak for everyone when I say: "so long as it works, I dont care."
Problem is in the hunt for the crown jewel of usability things are getting mucked up, dumbed down and obscured to all hell. (the best examples of this are galeon and the kernel)
Never said it was all samba's fault. That said I personally cannot stand people who try to make *nix work like windows. That includes these assholes [Linus, this means you!] who feel the friggin need to make everything corporate, and to allow people to include code into projects just because they have the right domain in their email addy.
Such is the state of things. Major part of the reason that I am contemplating leaving the industry. (not that I am Bill joy or anyone important)/rant
Apache and sendmail yes. Samba however is a festering pile of shit that is based on an even bigger festering pile of shit.
Re:Not ONLY Faster, lighter, but also IE-compatibl
on
Browser Wars 2004
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Example's ?
I have been using Linux only browsers for 4 years and have had no problems with any webpages displaying incorrectly. As a matter of fact the only things I have heard of not working correctly are some streaming media type's (mms:// URL's) and little sites that were made using WYSIWYG tools.
And I wouldn't hold my breath about it being an IE only web, the more major site's and groups bash IE and promote alternatives the more it hurts MS, no matter how hard they try they wont be able to prevent people leaving their platform until they actually FIX the problems.
First and foremost most of the online degree programs do not issue a degree with an asterisk. There are some that do indeed issue them with an asterisk (such as "Earned online").
Linux Company = Company that focuses specifically on Linux and Linux related products. ie Novell, Redhat etc
there are some jobs (in this case they pay very well) that almost require you to go through college.
My point is that if those people can get the job by lying then perhaps the people doing the background check dont go as in depth as some people think, thus the whole "which school is better" and "grades are important" points aren't very true.
I would also point out that my job *REQUIRES* a 4 year degree, when we hired more people last year thats exactly what they put for req's. I trained those people and I have no degree. I got my job because I knew someone who worked here. There are very few jobs that require a degree that actually require it (if you follow). Most of the time its listed as a requirement its not really important except to the HR assmunch who also has a degree. He lists it so he can feel validated.
it's the way you portray your situation and cut down anyone with a college education that bothers me, especially when based on faulty or nonexistent evidence
College degree's are not as important as people think they are, and they are over valued by people who already have them. Like most things with people it is beyond their grasp to understand how someone can learn in a way different from themselves. Also exactly what makes my experience any less valid or useful as evidence than yours ? Who gets to make the detirmination as to what the rule is and what the exception is ?
why exactly is it difficult for these people to get fired (their bullshit aside)?
In many states it is very hard to dismiss an employee based on hearsay. Such things will have to be proven, or else lawsuits will ensue. The employers in questions dont always know people are lying, they might collectivly have their heads so far up their ass that they cant even tell when they are doing good or bad at their jobs.
why do you think these people lied on their resumes?
"How the hell did you get THAT job ?!?! I Lied" that about surmises it. And they didnt neccasarily lie about school, they could have lied about experience. I know what one of them lied about was what a prior job had for duties, of course corporate policy at that place only discloses pay, title and if they would re-hire the employee.
If the previous example you gave with your co-workers is any indication, you don't seem to be the best at gathering sample sets. However, let's assume these people are the norm.
... As opposed to pulling shit out of my ass ? I used information I had access to and could verify (within reason anyway), I unlike some people do not wish to spew shit just to prove a point. Everything I have said to this point is based on real life experience, which harkens back to my original point: Real life experience > a degree.
Name one reputable educational institution where it's easy to get an IT degree.
Depending on your definition of "reputable",I have attended school for a total of three semesters at two community college's and have done some serious research on a few of the online offering's (UofPheonix, Berkley) and found them seriously lacking in the "reality" department. Of note is the fact that I did a large part of this work AFTER I started working in IT.... hence I did know a lot more than most students (and a hefty portion of the teachers)
I have also been involved (on some level, not always as a student) with two other universities in the area (RIT and U of R).
I might also reference that of the team of 9 people I work with 6 of them have degree's (4 in computers, one MBA, one Chem.). The two people who are the best at doing what we do do not have degree's (Not including myself.). This has Generally echo'd with all of our clients (AOL, Allstate, TimeWarner, Chase etc etc). No one I know has had any difficulty in attaining a degree in computers. However obviously there are schools out there that are beyond what most grads can handle (or what most non-grads could handle) like MIT.
Never actually looked into what the average employer does as far as research into grades and schools. I can gaurantee its not as in-depth as you think. I know several people who work for a major Linux company who lied their asses off on their resume's and got jobs paying very large amounts of money. They kept their jobs because it is very very difficult to fire someone where they are located, and because they can bullshit their way out of almost anything. Welcome to the state of IT....
It's disheartening to see your arguments boil down to a simple assumption you've made about something you know nothing about
::SIGH:: Its sad to see you assuming things. It's even sadder to see you basing your opinion off of what very little full time experience you have. (wonderful when people assume shit isnt it ?)
... I disagree. College is a lot easier for many people than you seem to think. Once they actually make it through college they have even more incentive not to quit, and the employer has more of a reason to keep giving them chances.
Kids this is why you want to skip going to private school. First you get teased, then you get your ass kicked an finally you turn into one of those fucking losers who have no life and have to correct grammatical errors on websites.
You missed the point. The.com era introduced a slew of people who had no passion, desire or creativity about computers. They simply choose this field because of the money and because at the time you could clear what a lawyer or doctor was making; with only half (or less) schooling.
Having a fuckton of these types of people (majority perhaps ?) wandering around applying for jobs that they have no business applying for is what is making the HR and PHB type's think there are no qualified people in the IT industry. Hence fueling the offshore craze.
I once had a headhunter call me and say she had over 3000 applications for a junior sysadmin position that paid 50k/year in the bay area. She almost begged me to consider the job because I was one of only four people she could find who were qualified for the position. I never even applied for it, she pulled my resume of the net. (it was even two years out of date.)
I would assume you feel the same way about awards received from your employers.
Nope. It is shit that some people need to validate themselves and feel accomplished. The only thing I respect is/are people who know what they are doing, know their limitations and have competency up to or beyond what is expected.
I was assuming that the person got some kind of break as far as a scholarship. And school can be any term from two to six years. Sometimes more or less it is as long as you want it to be (provided you wanna bust your ass, or drag it has the case may be)
The problem I run into with alot of people who are strictly experienced, is they have a very focused skill set. If I want to hire somebody to just do database stuff, sure its good to hire an experienced database person. But If I need them to do database and maybe some USB driver work on a different project, alot of pure experienced people can't handle such different work.
Thats funny but in my experience its the EXACT opposite, the college grads have to be hand held through learning the new stuff and the people with experience can figure it out themselves.
Many employers actually do evaluate colleges.
Many Large employers do, most employment in this sector, and this country in general does not take place at large companies. You are far more likely to be hired by a mid-sized company that cannot afford to hire "recruiters" or scout college's.
My job "assignments" are similar, design a process to do X within certain parameters.
Indeed, however there wont be more chances to compensate for a pure fuck up. With a job, your fired. With school you are at least given the oppourtunity to re-take the course, or do really well the rest of the semester to compensate.
Welcome to the computer industry. Most of the decent jobs are in india or will be soon, so unless that degree is in hindi you had better prepare for some "unwanted" adjustments.
Especially since the average american works 50/hr weeks and the average techie works close to 60/hr weeks.
Nice examples, and your point is taken, however I wouldn't work for a company that tried to fuck me. Matter of fact I would fuck them back.
I know programmers with english and teaching and political science degrees. Techies don't diss 'em, if they're competent.
Yes, *IF* they are competent.
Ask around in the 45-and-older crowd, and see how many war stories you hear.
Agreed however there is also a lot of seperation between the amount of "degree" people and non "degree" people from back then, now everyone and their mother has a degree, its devaluing the effort it takes to get a degree when so many people who dont know or like computers can attain them. Thankfully employers are now realizing this and adjusting their requirements. It is one of the few things I can thank the.com bust for.
If you had a little less regard for a glorified piece of paper then I might take you a little more seriously. As it stands we are going to agree to disagree.
Slashdot Mirror
Lonely women.
Gay and Metrosexual males
Couples. (driven by the incestant nagging of the fem party)
I caught it on hbo about 2 years after it was out, unbearable. Kate Winslet is hot, but not hot enough to deal with the "ultra hot sweet underdog guy" plot. Its the personification of every meg ryan movie ever made, I can do without that.
The only way I could quantify the problem with that movie is to give an example: Imagine a movie that was designed purely to attract a male audience. Gore, Action, Hot women doing completely unreal things, gadgets etc
How many straight women do you think would like that kind of movie ? Not many you say ? EXACTLY.
PS - the acting between winslet and little man was horrible, you would have more chemistry between a board and a nail.
If you block out the part where jennifer lopez is in tights and talking about "my pussy", do you still think its a good movie ?
Just curious.
Fuck that. Original Sin. Full Frontal. Gia, Lesbian.
Hackers was a good movie, just like swordfish and several other movies that had "uber hacker" theme's. The problem is anyone who knows VB or HTML thinks they are a hacker and acts offended when people misuse the word, or try to pigeon hole the culture.
Get over it. If you wanna bitch about the movie then you are obligated to take up the fight with the media about the misuse of the word "hacker". I have fought this battle, its frustrating.
yeah ... well .... ummm .... My dad can kick your dads ass !!! (?)
Okay, just re-read the whole thread ....
...)
I wasnt making a statement about slashdot being a large or small percentage, I was reffering to Linux users as a whole being a small percentage. The mixup occured because I thought I stated that, but didnt. (must use preview
However the OP has a valid point, how does gartner track users of whitebox's or people who wipe a windows machine with a downloaded OS ? (that is the only point I was trying to make -- surveys, statistics etc are all bullshit)
And basically you cant assume that anyone is like you.
.... whatever it doesnt matter there is no 100% in this situation because there are to many variables.
R that's why proper polls are necessary to come up with any figure.
Yet you fail to respond to the fact that there is no fucking way to come up with accurate numbers regarding this shit. Base it on sales and it skews a large percentage of the market (not everyone who builds a computer or buys a whitebox from a friend is counted.). Base it on
"We" are not the only group of people who use linux.
how the fuck does slashdot have a damn thing to do with this ? Slashdot is a website, thats it. I was using linux for 3 years before I had even heard of slashdot. Most people I know still dont know about it, and if they do there is no guarantee that they will actually come to it and read it.
Saying that you know something because it is obvious is foolish. Also I asked very specifically for some kind of logic -- that noone can provide because there is no way to provide it. There are to many variable's. I can produce anecdotal evidence to support whatever bullshit statistics or theories I come up with.
how do you know we are only a small percentage ? Do you have hard data about that ? How about from places like china ?
Mom and Dad might not use linux in your family, but they do in mine. So do quite a few people I know. The problem is very simple: there is no way to track usage of linux.
this firm estimated 2.8% of computers shipped last whatever ran linux when all was said and done. What if triple that number were built and had linux installed via a download ? or were ms machines but were wiped and had linux installed ? How do you estimate this ?
I would say worldwide linux runs 6% of desktops, mac 3%. that puts ms at about 90%, thats what I would assume. If I call it a statistic would anyone believe me ?
really ? Only 10 million ? I would venture a guess that there are a lot more "hobbyist's" out there than you think, how else do you explain so many computer store, parts suppliers etc ...
I have 8 computers here, they all run linux. Most people I know use linux for something (although we tend to be younger and more technical types) those 8 for me have to count as 8 individual desktops since I am sure the 300 running windows at the local university count as 300 for windows. Point being -- I built 6 of my computers and bought two with windows installed, how the hell do they know that my 8 are running linux ? or even that I have 8 ?
The answer is: they dont. They estimate based on shipments from major/mid-major manufacturers.
We all knew that MS controlled the OEM market, that was a major reason for the anti-trust trial ?
the problem with that is that KDE and gnome look enough like windows to be considered an "upgrade" like going from 98 to XP.
If they dont know what they bought and they cant use a windows install disc, they probably dont care enough to warrant OS restoring.
Not to mention the average person has at least heard of linux at this point. its been fairly unavoidable for the past few years.
Agreed. I think the problem lies with two main factors:
.... not to get rich, famous, powerful or to force your ideals on other people.
Most of the main projects now have a majority of developers who were raised and taught in a Microsoft environment, hence they mimic windows.
Most of the major projects are headed by ego maniacs who want nothing more than to be on the cover of wired. Accomplishing this has a copy-cat is a lot easier than doing it the right way, or by doing it your own way.
The very premise of all microsoft software should make any engineer cringe "usability at all costs". Its a nasty nasty road to go down. Especially when expectations are as high as they are. (and rising.)
There is no balance in the OSS community, you have your raving evangelists: RMS, Theo etc And your coporate sell outs: Linus, Icaza, etc
One of the major reasons I wish someone like Bill Joy would get involved. People who do it because they want to
I think I speak for everyone when I say: "so long as it works, I dont care."
Problem is in the hunt for the crown jewel of usability things are getting mucked up, dumbed down and obscured to all hell. (the best examples of this are galeon and the kernel)
Never said it was all samba's fault. That said I personally cannot stand people who try to make *nix work like windows. That includes these assholes [Linus, this means you!] who feel the friggin need to make everything corporate, and to allow people to include code into projects just because they have the right domain in their email addy.
/rant
Such is the state of things. Major part of the reason that I am contemplating leaving the industry. (not that I am Bill joy or anyone important)
Apache and sendmail yes. Samba however is a festering pile of shit that is based on an even bigger festering pile of shit.
Example's ?
I have been using Linux only browsers for 4 years and have had no problems with any webpages displaying incorrectly. As a matter of fact the only things I have heard of not working correctly are some streaming media type's (mms:// URL's) and little sites that were made using WYSIWYG tools.
And I wouldn't hold my breath about it being an IE only web, the more major site's and groups bash IE and promote alternatives the more it hurts MS, no matter how hard they try they wont be able to prevent people leaving their platform until they actually FIX the problems.
First and foremost most of the online degree programs do not issue a degree with an asterisk. There are some that do indeed issue them with an asterisk (such as "Earned online").
... As opposed to pulling shit out of my ass ? I used information I had access to and could verify (within reason anyway), I unlike some people do not wish to spew shit just to prove a point. Everything I have said to this point is based on real life experience, which harkens back to my original point: Real life experience > a degree.
Linux Company = Company that focuses specifically on Linux and Linux related products. ie Novell, Redhat etc
there are some jobs (in this case they pay very well) that almost require you to go through college.
My point is that if those people can get the job by lying then perhaps the people doing the background check dont go as in depth as some people think, thus the whole "which school is better" and "grades are important" points aren't very true.
I would also point out that my job *REQUIRES* a 4 year degree, when we hired more people last year thats exactly what they put for req's. I trained those people and I have no degree. I got my job because I knew someone who worked here. There are very few jobs that require a degree that actually require it (if you follow). Most of the time its listed as a requirement its not really important except to the HR assmunch who also has a degree. He lists it so he can feel validated.
it's the way you portray your situation and cut down anyone with a college education that bothers me, especially when based on faulty or nonexistent evidence
College degree's are not as important as people think they are, and they are over valued by people who already have them. Like most things with people it is beyond their grasp to understand how someone can learn in a way different from themselves. Also exactly what makes my experience any less valid or useful as evidence than yours ? Who gets to make the detirmination as to what the rule is and what the exception is ?
why exactly is it difficult for these people to get fired (their bullshit aside)?
In many states it is very hard to dismiss an employee based on hearsay. Such things will have to be proven, or else lawsuits will ensue. The employers in questions dont always know people are lying, they might collectivly have their heads so far up their ass that they cant even tell when they are doing good or bad at their jobs.
why do you think these people lied on their resumes?
"How the hell did you get THAT job ?!?! I Lied" that about surmises it. And they didnt neccasarily lie about school, they could have lied about experience. I know what one of them lied about was what a prior job had for duties, of course corporate policy at that place only discloses pay, title and if they would re-hire the employee.
If the previous example you gave with your co-workers is any indication, you don't seem to be the best at gathering sample sets. However, let's assume these people are the norm.
Name one reputable educational institution where it's easy to get an IT degree.
.... hence I did know a lot more than most students (and a hefty portion of the teachers)
....
::SIGH:: Its sad to see you assuming things. It's even sadder to see you basing your opinion off of what very little full time experience you have. (wonderful when people assume shit isnt it ?)
Depending on your definition of "reputable",I have attended school for a total of three semesters at two community college's and have done some serious research on a few of the online offering's (UofPheonix, Berkley) and found them seriously lacking in the "reality" department. Of note is the fact that I did a large part of this work AFTER I started working in IT
I have also been involved (on some level, not always as a student) with two other universities in the area (RIT and U of R).
I might also reference that of the team of 9 people I work with 6 of them have degree's (4 in computers, one MBA, one Chem.). The two people who are the best at doing what we do do not have degree's (Not including myself.). This has Generally echo'd with all of our clients (AOL, Allstate, TimeWarner, Chase etc etc). No one I know has had any difficulty in attaining a degree in computers. However obviously there are schools out there that are beyond what most grads can handle (or what most non-grads could handle) like MIT.
Never actually looked into what the average employer does as far as research into grades and schools. I can gaurantee its not as in-depth as you think. I know several people who work for a major Linux company who lied their asses off on their resume's and got jobs paying very large amounts of money. They kept their jobs because it is very very difficult to fire someone where they are located, and because they can bullshit their way out of almost anything. Welcome to the state of IT
It's disheartening to see your arguments boil down to a simple assumption you've made about something you know nothing about
... I disagree. College is a lot easier for many people than you seem to think. Once they actually make it through college they have even more incentive not to quit, and the employer has more of a reason to keep giving them chances.
Kids this is why you want to skip going to private school. First you get teased, then you get your ass kicked an finally you turn into one of those fucking losers who have no life and have to correct grammatical errors on websites.
Be careful, it could happen to YOU !
You missed the point. The .com era introduced a slew of people who had no passion, desire or creativity about computers. They simply choose this field because of the money and because at the time you could clear what a lawyer or doctor was making; with only half (or less) schooling.
Having a fuckton of these types of people (majority perhaps ?) wandering around applying for jobs that they have no business applying for is what is making the HR and PHB type's think there are no qualified people in the IT industry. Hence fueling the offshore craze.
I once had a headhunter call me and say she had over 3000 applications for a junior sysadmin position that paid 50k/year in the bay area. She almost begged me to consider the job because I was one of only four people she could find who were qualified for the position. I never even applied for it, she pulled my resume of the net. (it was even two years out of date.)
I would assume you feel the same way about awards received from your employers.
Nope. It is shit that some people need to validate themselves and feel accomplished. The only thing I respect is/are people who know what they are doing, know their limitations and have competency up to or beyond what is expected.
I was assuming that the person got some kind of break as far as a scholarship. And school can be any term from two to six years. Sometimes more or less it is as long as you want it to be (provided you wanna bust your ass, or drag it has the case may be)
The problem I run into with alot of people who are strictly experienced, is they have a very focused skill set. If I want to hire somebody to just do database stuff, sure its good to hire an experienced database person. But If I need them to do database and maybe some USB driver work on a different project, alot of pure experienced people can't handle such different work.
Thats funny but in my experience its the EXACT opposite, the college grads have to be hand held through learning the new stuff and the people with experience can figure it out themselves.
Many employers actually do evaluate colleges.
Many Large employers do, most employment in this sector, and this country in general does not take place at large companies. You are far more likely to be hired by a mid-sized company that cannot afford to hire "recruiters" or scout college's.
My job "assignments" are similar, design a process to do X within certain parameters.
Indeed, however there wont be more chances to compensate for a pure fuck up. With a job, your fired. With school you are at least given the oppourtunity to re-take the course, or do really well the rest of the semester to compensate.
in school you have no help.
You went to a bad school.
Welcome to the computer industry. Most of the decent jobs are in india or will be soon, so unless that degree is in hindi you had better prepare for some "unwanted" adjustments.
Especially since the average american works 50/hr weeks and the average techie works close to 60/hr weeks.
Nice examples, and your point is taken, however I wouldn't work for a company that tried to fuck me. Matter of fact I would fuck them back.
.com bust for.
I know programmers with english and teaching and political science degrees. Techies don't diss 'em, if they're competent.
Yes, *IF* they are competent.
Ask around in the 45-and-older crowd, and see how many war stories you hear.
Agreed however there is also a lot of seperation between the amount of "degree" people and non "degree" people from back then, now everyone and their mother has a degree, its devaluing the effort it takes to get a degree when so many people who dont know or like computers can attain them. Thankfully employers are now realizing this and adjusting their requirements. It is one of the few things I can thank the
Agreement is fun.
If you had a little less regard for a glorified piece of paper then I might take you a little more seriously. As it stands we are going to agree to disagree.