Linux isn't "Orange Book" Secure. Not really even all that close. SGI was making promises to work on that, using code taken from their secure-compliant version of Irix they sell the DoD, but aside from XFS, they haven't really made all that many releases of things to show any progress in this direction. Thus, Linux is not even permitted to be on the vast majority of DoD networks (private or internet-based). --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
I as a developer hate that use of the word, "framework". A framework already has a meaning in OO-speak, and not all of the "frameworks" in the Mac system fit that definition...probably very few.
Its a bad use of a word/phrase that already has a meaning, that will in the end only confuse young and budding developers. I hate Java's "Design Patterns" (in this case, the naming scheme for JavaBean accessors and event methods) for the same reason -- "Design Patterns" already had a well used, and mostly well understood meaning. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
If they "learned Java so they could make money fast", they DIDN'T learn it in a 4-year university bachelors of science degree program. If you want BS of CS or EE graduates with decent GPAs, you'll already have ignored the "i just learned this language in a computer training center" types already in your resume filtering, so why worry?
Remember I wasn't talking about those who "learned Java", but those who learned Java as part of their university c/s program who will have a slight advantage over those who didn't. Read between the lines, people, I didn't say "java programmer" meaning "one who only knows java" -- i was referring to the c/s grad who knew java as well as all the rest of what normally goes into a c/s degree (as opposed to the one who only had theoretically "correct" languages that aren't used as much in the real world, like smalltalk or eiffel). sheesh. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Yes, but to reiterate, a graduate with BOTH theory and practical experience applying the theory with pragmatic, business-world languages, may be more valuable than either. The question that started this wasn't "should we teach java in place of teaching c/s theory", it was "[sh|c]ould we use java to teach c/s theory". I believe that if the teacher designs his curriculum right, he can test for and grade the students ability to use the language to demonstrate knowledge of the theory.
Yes, Java has the ability to "bypass" good OO design (as does C++), but if the teacher makes the programming assignment conditions include not using those proceedural cheats, then the student MUST learn the theory too, and walks away with both theory and practical application.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Oh give me a break and read between the lines (translation -- show your education).
If a BALANCED education, in liberal studies as well as the field of industry one intends to specialize in, wasn't important, then college wouldn't be important and the american tech industry would all be based around people who are "Computer Learning Centers" graduates.
I'm not talking about higher-education being 100% directed to getting the job, but it is almost 100% NECESSARY to get a good job, especially in the IT industry. Just having a head full of theory and languages that one will never use again (and liberal studies along the way) is NOT going to necessarilly be useful in the competition to get a decent job (competition that is increasing in today's.com-deaththrows) -- some experience (classroom is usually enough) in practical languages used in the modern world is also important.
Companies won't take a "generic c.s. grad" without practical experience in a language that company uses -- they'll only take the "exceptional c.s. grad".
It would be nice if we were all exceptional and all could just study the finer theory of things, but its not that way -- schools don't get 100% exceptional students (not even the ivy league), and their curriculum should reflect that and provide means by which their average students are in some ways prepared for getting jobs in a competitive market. Teaching practical programming languages like Java, C++, Python, Perl are means to that. A smalltalk-educated student will have a learning curve to learn Java that a company may decide isn't worth paying for when another candidate already has Java experience. They'll only take the smalltalk one if his overall record is exceptional as well. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Here in the UK most of the better Universities are the ones that teach more theory whereas the less good ones teach more practical applications.
Well, that's been the British practice throughout most of Britain's higher education...and it cost them dearly, historically speaking. A brit (Perkin) created (by accident, he was looking for artificial quinine) one of the more important inventions in the modern world (the coloured dye, which eventually led directly to plastics (also a coal-tar derivative)), and the British culture of "higher education isn't something someone does for work" pretty much through that head start right down the drain...the winners in the new chemistry technologies were the Germans, where education WAS considered something for the practical. In particular, color plating and color photography was a German invention that the Brits might have had a lead on otherwise...(Source: James Burke's Connections)
But as I said (and I was talking about American Universities, where the competition to get in can be harder at times, 'cause it isn't practically set-in-stone by some test one takes in the 4th grade...or do the Brits still do that?)-- the Balance is what's important. The theory languages are good for teaching good programming and design and all that, but there's no reason that the practical, business-hyped languages should be ignored -- teach BOTH of them and you've got the prime candidates for a fresh-outta-college job. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
You shouldn't be taught specific tools at university rather you should be taught theory.
Nice sentiment, but regardless of the "ideals" of education, when one gets out of college, one expects (screw that -- NEEDS) to get a job, and given two straight-A students, one with a lot of theoretical-application languages under his belt, and the other with not so many of those, but having known Java since his freshman year, the recruiter will pick the Java programmer, 'cause it means his company can save money having to train the programmer.
And any University with a reputation for letting the education get in the way of future employment for their students is gonna start losing students quickly.
Its nice to "learn", but the truth is that since the 1960s and the G.I. bill, one goes to university because the degree is a requirement for getting a job, not to "learn". And that isn't gonna change anytime in the near future.
The theoretical and the practical-for-today's-world should be considered hand-in-hand. I value the theory I know from my C.S. degree very highly...but I wouldn't have gotten the good job I wanted without having had C++ in college.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
The only problem I can see with an OpenSource solution to the issue of music preferences and ratings and stuff like that is basically what happened to CDDB. SOME corporation, probably one of the big-four of the RIAA, is gonna buy the damn thing out (and GPL isn't gonna protect the database, as we've all discovered) and take it all away from us and our open sense of thought. We're gonna build a system that the RIAA will realize makes money and controls money, and the RIAA will try to take it away from us. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
That's not that abnormal in the music industry. Hell, ASCAP goes after Irish pubs that play almost entirely traditional music and almost no modern stuff at all, and hit them with a site-license that acts as if the pub is playing all ASCAP covered music all the time.
A pub may have an artist on stage, playing his own all-original self-written material, and ASCAP is getting paid for it to happen, whereby they turn around and give all the money to the #1 pop artist of the week (or actually that artists' writers or other copyright holders).
"The history of the music industry is a history of exploitation and theft." -- Robert Fripp --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Re:"Shared Source" Philosophy
on
Mundie Responds
·
· Score: 2
Students and other poor people are NOT allowed to participate in their philosophy.
Oh yes they are -- in the belief that they will eventually get rich(er) and be able to afford software, M$ has a major campaign of donating computers (exclusively running Windows) to libraries (where poor people get 'net access), and has been more agressively targetting "exclusivity" licenses with schools than Pepsi. If a school agrees to the terms and ONLY runs M$ for its education programs (including CS departments) and only sells M$ products in its bookstores (this means no MACs as well as no Linux), then M$ gives a rather large grant to the school. These actions were praised by the press as "Bill Gates finally starts donating some of that cash of his" -- but the reality is that its to hook people on M$ software as soon as possible.
Get 'em hooked on M$ early and they'll stay with M$ when they can afford to buy it themselves... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
They only search one place: their own index of patents and applications. If its already patented, its rejected. If a different application has been filed and rejected, the new one will be rejected if its not unique from that one enough. If one has been filed and not yet rejected, the dates are compared and the first one wins. Simple, no?
The fact that the PTO only searches its own database was confirmed by the PTO's chief. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
To quote Robert Fripp, "A group only exists in service of an aim". When the need to group is there, the group will form. When the goal of the group is achieved, or failure is innevitable, the group will disband.
We band together only when we need to. Its only when the Common Enemy uses our "disunion" as a tool (in this case, FUD) against us that we must turn on the Common Enemy and remove its threat. Then we can get back to our infighting in peace.;-) --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Fine, but I want to be the first to publish "The Idiot's Guide to 12 Steps to Programming Your Way to a Slimmer Healthier You For Dummies". --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
XP Code CAN be broken -- the quality of the code is reflective of the quality of the tests. If a test case doesn't cover some oddball input ("garbage in garbage out"), then it will never be tested and the potentially broken code will be delivered.
But where XP can help recover from this is that the atmosphere for testing is still there. When an integration or enduser break happens, the inputs can then go back to the programmer to create a new test case and fix the code by making that test case do what should have been done.
So its still possible to have broken XP code, but at the same time, the fixing of it should also be easy... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
the entire point of object oriented programming is creating generic reusable components
The point of OOD/OOP is creating software that more directly reflects the problem domain of the system being constructed. Its for creating maintainable software fast (by directly implementing the model instead of having to twist the model to fit restrictions in the language paradigm). Encapsulation helps maintainability; inheritance and polymorphism help the reflection of the model.
This code is not necessarilly reusable. And any true Object Model is going to be very application specific and have very few reusable parts.
Reusability comes from a Component-design approach. Components are not (necessarilly) Objects. They can be used to implement Objects, but they can be constructed using non-OO techniques. Objects belong to a problem domain; reusable components might not. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
To counter, its that sort of thing that justifies the clause in the employment contract where anything you create, even "on your own time", still belongs to the company. If your creative mind while off the clock can still think about stuff belonging to the company, then anything else you think about also belongs to the company.
A slave clause, surely, but that's their side of it... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Exactly -- here with RedHat/Cygnus (usually), you're not so much paying for the software (you can get that for free), but paying for the work that went into ease of installation, and real honest-to-god, the engineers-who-messed-up-will-actually-fix-it-for-y ou-and-get-the-fix-to-you-in-a-reasonalbe-ammount- of-time support.
But that isn't something that can be re-sold... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Open Source, and OSI approved licenses, like GPL, really are a viable, long term, money making, market gaining, idea and force, or else MS would not bother.
Its not "money making" directly -- its what you DO with OpenSource software that can be money making. M$ doesn't fear that somebody else is really going to make money by making OSS...what they feare is the other factors you mention -- long term and market gaining -- things tht won't make money for others, but WILL take money away from M$.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
It is in M$'s interests to NOT sort out the differences (though internally they surely have, as the Halloween documents showed). They want the "average user" out there to think that they are the same; once they do, then furthur presentations like this can focus on what some of us call the GPL virus and how it can prevent developers from "protecting" their software from being used without permission and other stupid FUD like that.
As for RedHat being the only Linux brand (at least in the public's eye)? Well, others have written that the chance for that has come and gone and it isn't going to happen. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
No -- its buy the first one for $10,000 ONCE, sell it to 12 people for $1,000, and boom : $2000 profit...but eventually the price will finally (and in good health) drop to 0...in any case, this is unlikely for any GPL software to have happen to it. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
hmm...seems to be a reaction in the system to last week, where it seemed like _nobody_ was a moderator and most stories had no 4+ comments at all... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
No, it shouldn't (and usually wouldn't) change the outcome of the case itself; justice being blind and all that.
But media attention to a case where the law is enforced, even it its morally the wrong thing to do, CAN have an impact on Congress changing the law.
The best example in the last 10 years was the Credit Union law. Credit Unions were expanding beyond their "common ground" in order to survive if their original common group was lost for whatever reason. The banks sued, won the case and all appeals to just shy of the Supreme Court...
...Then congress and Clinton, under major lobbying and petition efforts by the Credit Unions and their members, passed a law that pretty much gave the Credit Unions the right to exist as they have been, ending the case right on the spot. --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Of course, it could be argued that the founding fathers did not predict the existence of multi-national corporations whose stock value
exceeds the GNP of many countries.
Not really...by that point, Lloyds of London and the British East India Company were already far and away making more loot than anything Eastern Europian countries could have imagined... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
In this case, I can. As another post said, transmitting mail and storing mail _should_ be two different things. If the mail is stored in a "fancy" mailbox, as opposed to a unix mbox (where From is the divider), then there should be no need whatsoever for the > character...but its there anyways, because Sendmail attaches it to it as it forwards it.
See page 79 of Unix-Haters Handbook for a discussion on it.
Page 81:
Sendmail even magles mail for which it isn't the "final delivery agent"...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
I'm just wondering if Sendmail will finally stop putting in the > character in front of every occurance of the word "From" at the start of a line... --
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Slashdot Mirror
Linux isn't "Orange Book" Secure. Not really even all that close. SGI was making promises to work on that, using code taken from their secure-compliant version of Irix they sell the DoD, but aside from XFS, they haven't really made all that many releases of things to show any progress in this direction. Thus, Linux is not even permitted to be on the vast majority of DoD networks (private or internet-based).
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Its a bad use of a word/phrase that already has a meaning, that will in the end only confuse young and budding developers. I hate Java's "Design Patterns" (in this case, the naming scheme for JavaBean accessors and event methods) for the same reason -- "Design Patterns" already had a well used, and mostly well understood meaning.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Remember I wasn't talking about those who "learned Java", but those who learned Java as part of their university c/s program who will have a slight advantage over those who didn't. Read between the lines, people, I didn't say "java programmer" meaning "one who only knows java" -- i was referring to the c/s grad who knew java as well as all the rest of what normally goes into a c/s degree (as opposed to the one who only had theoretically "correct" languages that aren't used as much in the real world, like smalltalk or eiffel). sheesh.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Yes, Java has the ability to "bypass" good OO design (as does C++), but if the teacher makes the programming assignment conditions include not using those proceedural cheats, then the student MUST learn the theory too, and walks away with both theory and practical application.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
If a BALANCED education, in liberal studies as well as the field of industry one intends to specialize in, wasn't important, then college wouldn't be important and the american tech industry would all be based around people who are "Computer Learning Centers" graduates.
I'm not talking about higher-education being 100% directed to getting the job, but it is almost 100% NECESSARY to get a good job, especially in the IT industry. Just having a head full of theory and languages that one will never use again (and liberal studies along the way) is NOT going to necessarilly be useful in the competition to get a decent job (competition that is increasing in today's .com-deaththrows) -- some experience (classroom is usually enough) in practical languages used in the modern world is also important.
Companies won't take a "generic c.s. grad" without practical experience in a language that company uses -- they'll only take the "exceptional c.s. grad".
It would be nice if we were all exceptional and all could just study the finer theory of things, but its not that way -- schools don't get 100% exceptional students (not even the ivy league), and their curriculum should reflect that and provide means by which their average students are in some ways prepared for getting jobs in a competitive market. Teaching practical programming languages like Java, C++, Python, Perl are means to that. A smalltalk-educated student will have a learning curve to learn Java that a company may decide isn't worth paying for when another candidate already has Java experience. They'll only take the smalltalk one if his overall record is exceptional as well.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Well, that's been the British practice throughout most of Britain's higher education...and it cost them dearly, historically speaking. A brit (Perkin) created (by accident, he was looking for artificial quinine) one of the more important inventions in the modern world (the coloured dye, which eventually led directly to plastics (also a coal-tar derivative)), and the British culture of "higher education isn't something someone does for work" pretty much through that head start right down the drain...the winners in the new chemistry technologies were the Germans, where education WAS considered something for the practical. In particular, color plating and color photography was a German invention that the Brits might have had a lead on otherwise...(Source: James Burke's Connections)
But as I said (and I was talking about American Universities, where the competition to get in can be harder at times, 'cause it isn't practically set-in-stone by some test one takes in the 4th grade...or do the Brits still do that?)-- the Balance is what's important. The theory languages are good for teaching good programming and design and all that, but there's no reason that the practical, business-hyped languages should be ignored -- teach BOTH of them and you've got the prime candidates for a fresh-outta-college job.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Nice sentiment, but regardless of the "ideals" of education, when one gets out of college, one expects (screw that -- NEEDS) to get a job, and given two straight-A students, one with a lot of theoretical-application languages under his belt, and the other with not so many of those, but having known Java since his freshman year, the recruiter will pick the Java programmer, 'cause it means his company can save money having to train the programmer.
And any University with a reputation for letting the education get in the way of future employment for their students is gonna start losing students quickly.
Its nice to "learn", but the truth is that since the 1960s and the G.I. bill, one goes to university because the degree is a requirement for getting a job, not to "learn". And that isn't gonna change anytime in the near future.
The theoretical and the practical-for-today's-world should be considered hand-in-hand. I value the theory I know from my C.S. degree very highly...but I wouldn't have gotten the good job I wanted without having had C++ in college.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
The only problem I can see with an OpenSource solution to the issue of music preferences and ratings and stuff like that is basically what happened to CDDB. SOME corporation, probably one of the big-four of the RIAA, is gonna buy the damn thing out (and GPL isn't gonna protect the database, as we've all discovered) and take it all away from us and our open sense of thought. We're gonna build a system that the RIAA will realize makes money and controls money, and the RIAA will try to take it away from us.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
A pub may have an artist on stage, playing his own all-original self-written material, and ASCAP is getting paid for it to happen, whereby they turn around and give all the money to the #1 pop artist of the week (or actually that artists' writers or other copyright holders).
"The history of the music industry is a history of exploitation and theft." -- Robert Fripp
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Oh yes they are -- in the belief that they will eventually get rich(er) and be able to afford software, M$ has a major campaign of donating computers (exclusively running Windows) to libraries (where poor people get 'net access), and has been more agressively targetting "exclusivity" licenses with schools than Pepsi. If a school agrees to the terms and ONLY runs M$ for its education programs (including CS departments) and only sells M$ products in its bookstores (this means no MACs as well as no Linux), then M$ gives a rather large grant to the school. These actions were praised by the press as "Bill Gates finally starts donating some of that cash of his" -- but the reality is that its to hook people on M$ software as soon as possible.
Get 'em hooked on M$ early and they'll stay with M$ when they can afford to buy it themselves...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
The fact that the PTO only searches its own database was confirmed by the PTO's chief.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
We band together only when we need to. Its only when the Common Enemy uses our "disunion" as a tool (in this case, FUD) against us that we must turn on the Common Enemy and remove its threat. Then we can get back to our infighting in peace. ;-)
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Fine, but I want to be the first to publish "The Idiot's Guide to 12 Steps to Programming Your Way to a Slimmer Healthier You For Dummies".
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
But where XP can help recover from this is that the atmosphere for testing is still there. When an integration or enduser break happens, the inputs can then go back to the programmer to create a new test case and fix the code by making that test case do what should have been done.
So its still possible to have broken XP code, but at the same time, the fixing of it should also be easy...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
The point of OOD/OOP is creating software that more directly reflects the problem domain of the system being constructed. Its for creating maintainable software fast (by directly implementing the model instead of having to twist the model to fit restrictions in the language paradigm). Encapsulation helps maintainability; inheritance and polymorphism help the reflection of the model.
This code is not necessarilly reusable. And any true Object Model is going to be very application specific and have very few reusable parts.
Reusability comes from a Component-design approach. Components are not (necessarilly) Objects. They can be used to implement Objects, but they can be constructed using non-OO techniques. Objects belong to a problem domain; reusable components might not.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
A slave clause, surely, but that's their side of it...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
But that isn't something that can be re-sold...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
Its not "money making" directly -- its what you DO with OpenSource software that can be money making. M$ doesn't fear that somebody else is really going to make money by making OSS...what they feare is the other factors you mention -- long term and market gaining -- things tht won't make money for others, but WILL take money away from M$.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
As for RedHat being the only Linux brand (at least in the public's eye)? Well, others have written that the chance for that has come and gone and it isn't going to happen.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
No -- its buy the first one for $10,000 ONCE, sell it to 12 people for $1,000, and boom : $2000 profit...but eventually the price will finally (and in good health) drop to 0...in any case, this is unlikely for any GPL software to have happen to it.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
hmm...seems to be a reaction in the system to last week, where it seemed like _nobody_ was a moderator and most stories had no 4+ comments at all...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
But media attention to a case where the law is enforced, even it its morally the wrong thing to do, CAN have an impact on Congress changing the law.
The best example in the last 10 years was the Credit Union law. Credit Unions were expanding beyond their "common ground" in order to survive if their original common group was lost for whatever reason. The banks sued, won the case and all appeals to just shy of the Supreme Court...
...Then congress and Clinton, under major lobbying and petition efforts by the Credit Unions and their members, passed a law that pretty much gave the Credit Unions the right to exist as they have been, ending the case right on the spot.
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
exceeds the GNP of many countries.
Not really...by that point, Lloyds of London and the British East India Company were already far and away making more loot than anything Eastern Europian countries could have imagined...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
See page 79 of Unix-Haters Handbook for a discussion on it.
Page 81:
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
I'm just wondering if Sendmail will finally stop putting in the > character in front of every occurance of the word "From" at the start of a line...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)