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First RFC1149 Implementation
Crossfire writes: "IP over Avian Carrier (RFC1149) was just a joke, right? It would seem not. The Bergen Linux Users Group has made it a reality! It would also seem that Alan Cox was present for the event too, given by the photos on the page." This is just excellent. Kudos to everyone involved.
better known as FIM-attac (Food In the Middle)
A better way of saying this would be "from the Computer Science community". I would have to agree with the other reply to this parent, which states that you are, in fact, a troll.
Microsoft will use swallows. You will only be able to send through their gateway in Capistrano.
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
You have to catch the pigeon, change its packet, and release it to be a successful hijack. Now the question still burning in my mind is how do you spoof using pigeons?
:)\n"
if ($user =~ m/shaldannon/i) {
print "\n-- $user
}
What is your Slash Rating?
African or European Packet?
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
The 'inspiration' behind the whole project, no doubt:
t n/ 15packet_one_ready.jpg.html
http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/vegard_bilder/
I'm sure they all had few good laughs
"Worse, quantum encryption would be impossible, doe to the carrier's inability to fly in an entangled state."
I've heard cats work for that one (cf. Schrodinger et al). Although they need to stay unobserved, and herding them can be quite hard.
--
Packet size isn't that limited - just make sure to use microfilm.
Indeed. And they did leave at least one audit trail, as seen in http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/bilder/tn/20audit _trail.jpg.html
We did actually think about that. But, you don't send email as your first network test. You send a ping - or a traceroute, but that was not really interesting, as it was only one hop. And well, losing packets with email is quite worse than losing them with a ping. A retransmission could easily mean an hour or three extra time :) And
basically, we'd have needed more pigeons...
- Vegard
More pictures, this time mostly from the other site, is at http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/bjoff_bilder/
- Vegard
...would be a traceroute of the packets!
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
I don't know what's up, but the system has chosen a friend of mine to moderate posts twice in the last 4 days. I'm trying to figure out what's up there, but at the same time, he's not complaining.
That is: "For the sake of freedom, we cannot slip..."
Now we return you to your regularly scheduled nonsense...
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
You might get a dropped packet!
insignificant sig
... of about 5 minutes, or was that TCP?
------
Perhaps, in amazon.com fashion, Reuters could sue the Bergen LUG for patent infringement.
Ultrium tapes are higher still. On top of that you can fit more in an Aircraft carrier I should think ;)
I'll still stick with the UPS 18 wheeler than yours.. But, the 747 FedEx planes have got to beat all standard shipping lanes for this kind of traffic. Half decently quick and really really high parallism.
Rod Taylor
http://images.vrx.net/buttons/rfc1149now.jpg
Do what you want with it.
Need Mercedes parts ?
BTW, why are we seeing so many posts moderated so high recently? I only want to see a few posts per article, and now you get 15 at +5. Did Taco make everyone a moderator full-time or something?
/. already implimented the CPIP for moderation, but still need to work the bugs out :)
For a couple of days there was next to no moderating done and then they switched moderating back on. I thought the moderation permissions were just backed up and so there were a flood of them. Maybe the fix turned on too many moderators.
Or maybe
I can easily beat that. How about an 18 wheeler fully loaded with DVDs? :)
Is that aftrican pigeons or european pigeons?
-- What do you need?
-- Gnus. Lots of Gnus.
me too.. /. has improved lately with the extra mods.
I've been a mod twice in the last few days. I actually think that the quality of
...the guy who wrote this who seems to think that RFC == standard.
;)
Oh, and of course the crack-smoking moderators who consider bogosity to be insightful.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
MS will purchase several of the air cannons used to launch frozen poultry at aircraft windows to test for breaking point
The brits tried that once--damn thing punched right through the windscreen and embedded itself into the bulkhead behind the pilot's seat.
It makes slightly more sense to do this with non-frozen birds, since most of the birdstrikes that _I_ can think of don't involve icy wildlife.
I think Hitchcock showed what this would be like...
The second to it would be a Ryder truck fully loaded with punch cards...
It's the packet loss, I'm most worried about.
Of course, it's actually (TCP or UDP or ICMP)/IP/HCP/(make of automobile)...
sulli
RTFJ.
. . .
little transmitters and receivers would be placed on birds and a network would be set up that way. The signals would always be best in parks or where birds are fed. Power for the device would be generated from the motion of the bird. And if you cover enough birds, you could get city wide coverage.
For rural areas: deers, badgers, dogs, cats, squirrels and/or small unsuspecting children could be used in addition to birds.
Anyone try this out with penguins?
Can you imagine having missed this story? What could be more important or hilarious than a nerdgram about sending IP via carrier pigeon? Thank you, slashdot, for providing a forum where such vital news can be shared by geeks everywhere.
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
For some reason it never made it to RFC status. :-(
It is available at http://rgfsparc.cr.usgs.gov:8090/sysadmin/chips_on _avians.txt
Cheers,
MadSaxon
Licensing deals to hardware manufacturers are likely to follow, reports I. M. A. Dingus, an industry analyst familiar with the technology. No word has been received from Microsoft as to who the hardware vendors would be. &tongue location="removed from cheek"&
Eric S. Raymond has decided to include this event into The Jargon File version 4.3.0. He salutes the RFC fetishists of BLUG and calls them "wonderfully insane hackers", in addition to describing the event as "what may just be the funniest, cleverest hack of the last fifteen years" in a Linux Today article.
The Jargon entry can be found here.
Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, jakob@grimstveit.net, www.grimstveit.net
Excuse me, can you spare an IRQ?
obviously, a european swallow would not be able to carry such a heavy load, and african swallows ane not migratory.
Now we just need to work on the Power over IP implementaion. ACIP encapsulation?
Would we have to use Duck tape for carrier mallards?
No, you use African for LAN's, and European for everthing else!
Rational thought is the only true freedom
this is about to be a +1 Funny slut-fest.
so um, whatever, this one isn't.
...let's implement Napster over the avian carrier IP!
And ofcourse all the script kitties well be using netcat to sniff packets
hmm...seems to be a reaction in the system to last week, where it seemed like _nobody_ was a moderator and most stories had no 4+ comments at all...
--
You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
* Ping flood. They would need a lot of pigeons for this.
* Send an e-mail.
* Serve a web page.
* DOS attack! Just release a LOT of pigeons at the same time, most with SYN packets.
* Read news.
* Increase the bandwidth by attacking a mini-CDROM to each pigeon.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
I just thought of another improve ment that could increase the amount of data transfer that the pigeons could carry: if you could figure out a way to get the pigeon to Carry a CD-R, Zip disk or the like, you could transfer much larger packets.
650 MB in 6319 seconds would be a little better than 64 Bytes....
This should take care of the documented problem of Mars not being able to be on the Internet due to TCP/IP delays being too long. The bandwidth depends upon how many pigeons one can fit in a rocket.
No! Tying us to physical locations without protection rids us of anonymity and privacy!
What we need is CPIPsec, a new extension to RFC1149. Genetic engineering should allow us to engineer super-pigeons, capable of decoding encrypted mail addresses so that no one following the pigeon with binoculars can tell where it is going, while keeping the pigeon from getting lost itself. We can use the person's address to generate public PGP (Pigeon-Genius-Privacy) keys for protection of address info, and let the pigeon keep it's private key internally.
Plus, with advances in stealth technology, we can modify our pigeons to have anti-radar coating on their feathers. With these advances, our pigeons would show up on radar as smaller than a fly, instead of being the size of a bird like those bulky bombers that the US military has come up with. Advanced training can allow our pigeons to know how to use buildings as cover to baffle pursuers.
We must push through this new safer protocol to keep the U.S. Goverment's "RAPTOR" program from intercepting and recording our messages. Only this will avoid "birdcatcher-in-the-middle" attacks on our security systems. For the sake of freedom, slip in vigillance and become complacent with plainbird messaging. Only avian encryption will protect the foundations of democracy that we depend on.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The dinner picture would have been better if it had shown them eating small birds. Equipment recycling.
Besides logs and cable trays many of these audit trails will converge at the location of a freshly washed car.
.sdrawkcab si gis siht
Actually falcons will be used as firewalls, if a pigeon's packet is trying to breach security the falcon will take it out.
"I also suspect CAT might cause a segment fault."
;)
Wouldn't that be netcat?
Anyone got a few thousand M1A1 tanks lying around?
It happened in the movies!
sulli
RTFJ.
written for a non-technical audience. Very nice.
sulli
RTFJ.
Hehe - I can picture the headlines:
System engineer pecked to death, server room burried in pigeon droppings
^]:wq!^M
System engineer pecked to death, server room burried in pigeon droppings
JonKatz writing an essay about the way Pigeon Technology will completely transform the way people look at geeks, and proclaims he knew this was coming ever since he played "Duck Hunt" in the 80's...
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Learning to fly, Pink Floyd.
You can buy more licenses for a Microsoft product to extend it after purchase. How does one "extend" a castrated pigeon?
I mean, is the gene sequence of pidgeons freely available for download?
Of course.
If I find a design flaw in the pidgeon, who do I submit patches to?
god@heaven
He answers all prayers, you know.
"And like that
Actually, all transmitted ping replies did come through. If you read the story on the page, it says that the replying end had six pigeons, and two escaped without payload.
The reason we transmitted 9 pings is that we had to keep ping running to be able to feed the replies back. If we had stopped it we wouldn't get the stats.
There is always room for improvement over existing protocols.
Yea.. Microsoft said the same thing and now every message I get from a outlook client has html embeded in it even though its marked as plain text...
(Sorry.. thats been a gripe of mine latley..)
I don't know.
Eeeeeeearggggh...........
Tequila - drink of the gods.
Hey you could use these to get the internet to Antarticia. Sure latency would be measured in weeks. But it would still be their fastest method of communication to civilization.
for LAN, implement fast ground birds, like roadrunners, or perhaps emus (those things are frickin' fast!)?
This is one of the benefits of this transmission fabric not pointed out in the RFC. The process of natural evolution will ensure the next release of the transport will include organic modifications correcting design flaws. Unfortunately, this approach lends itself to comparison to Microsoft's product upgrade, new release and patching process. Especially considering the common user has no avenue through which to suggest enhancments or design flaws.
We had 8 pigeons at the pinging end and for some reason only six at the other. After the first four replies were sent, the remaining two pigeons escaped, leaving us in the 'carrier lost' state.
-- That grumpy BSD guy - http://bsdly.blogspot.com/
:)
1. Either:
1.1. Use barcodes instead of OCR, or
1.2. Use magtape instead of paper.
2. Transmit redundant packets to cut lossage.
3. Use better trained pigeons.
4. Secure packets against rain damage using cling film (saran wrap).
--
Just use 11-Pound Model Plane Vs. The Atlantic as the carrier and you have a new method for cross-continent communications!
Ok, so the ping times are gonna suck and having to wait months for a new packet to be constructed if the previous failed also isn't too good.
"How come I didn't get that email from Bob?"
"Oh, the model plane lost a wing half way across the ocean, sorry."
Geoff
I will no longer be able to make jokes about TCP/IP over carrier piegons in jest! Curse you, RFC! CURSE YOU!
It's just TCP/IP transport layer. You can add whatever encryption and authentication protocols on top as you like.
There is no theoretical difference between this transport and any other (ethernet anyone?) ... to the application it is all the same ... albeit perhaps a little slower ...
A DOS attack of the Avian carrier. Clip their wings, perhaps?
I would picture a DOS as being where you send *armies* of your own pigeons to the secondary base camp to elbow out the legitimate pigeons from dropping their messages.
Perhaps a herd of cats invading the receiving base camp might deter packets from landing, and cause bad pings.
- passion
I just loved the ping reports:
$ ping -i 450 10.0.3.1
PING 10.0.3.1 (10.0.3.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=6165731.1 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=3211900.8 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=5124922.8 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.3.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=6388671.9 ms
9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 3211900.8/5222806.6/6388671.9 ms
What happened with the 5 packets? Was the "carrier lost" or perhaps eaten? Or did it just "drop the packet?"
Someones port-scanning us! BANG! BANG! BANG!
..at least we won't be needing IPV6 if we do this.. in fact we won't need IP at all.. we could just use good old zip codes for the addressing schema.. in fact why use birds, we already have a transport system for that.. the Royal Mail / UPS / DHL / USPS..
So we translate all our communication data into TCP datagrams.. print them out.. stick them in envelopes... write the zip code and house number on the outside.. genius!
ah, no wait, that's a letter isn't it.
Al.
sapstuff.com
I certainly feel sorry for anyone who get slashdotted
Methinks they would get splatdropped...
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
This gives a new meaning to TTL for packets. =) How many uses do you get out of one of those poor pidgeons? It'd be interesting to see network traffic by looking up and seeing how big the cloud of birds is. What happens to the bird when you have a resend or a NAK?
or
or
Have to watch out that you don't get cats sniffing the packets or that the packet falls out of the sky from heat exhaustion. Seriously, this is an example of doing something because it could be done. What good is this in an age were people turn their nose up at 300 baud? They could have put that bird to some use afterwards and eaten it. =)
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
to fix the ipv4/6 problem.
we can destroy the internet as it is know, and use these little pigeons (maybe penguins that fly would be better) as our tunnel...
this way, everything would be almost to slow todo, except for the old schoolers that are used to there old 200bps modems..
now, everyone else decides to drop the internet, and we only have several people using it now..
then we will let it grow... but what will happen? i reckon itl end up like it is now.. again.
(a) some people see a chance for it making money
(b) they set up a 'bsp' or bird service provider
(c) this bsp has a user base of about 20
(d) several other small bsp's start. they hub together in a very unordered and unplanned fation, where each bird goes to a particular address, in its memory. unfortunatly the memory of pigioeons only holds 5, pengiuns actually hold 7.
(e) someone decides that the Australian's (me) want bird access.. and trains some pigeons to travel between us and au. Unfortunatly, most pigeons die because of the over loaded packages they are carying, bird loss is at 90%
(f) after a decade or so, despite its slowness, bird net is rocking along, with a whole 1000. Since the memory of a bird is maxed at 7 address', they have to start again. and where back to square one.
stuff
Did anyone contact the author of the RFC to let him know the protocol has been implemented? He's listed as: David Waitzman EMail: dwaitzman@BBN.COM Maybe someone should send him a pingflock....
Looks like the guys are egging each other on in those pics. But I guess if things go wrong they literally can't wing it! Still, its something to crow about though I wouldn't want to be the salesman who has to hawk it as theres not much chance of it ruffling any feathers down at the likes of Cisco. Ok, ENOUGH puns!
Seeing this makes me think of other protocols that I haven't seen implemented yet such as IP over snail mail or IP over Tam Tam (maybe using a morse encoding), even tcp/ip over voice, so you could use VoIP and then IPoV recursively.
2 years ago as a joke I wrote a vulnerability mock up on Packet Pigeons had I known the RFC existed I would've tried to make it funnier.
360 degrees of Karma
When Reuters was first starting out, there were certain areas where the telegraph hadn't been run through yet. So until the lines were completed, they had to send messages (packets) via carrier pigeons. It's by no means a new concept.
Or they'll install doors at the end stations which only allow Microsoft pigeons through
What if Slashdot started using these thing.
I certainly feel sorry for anyone who get slashdotted
... but it seems to be slashdotted already. I guess they need more birdwidth.
Hmm... IP over UPS truck...
Heh... problem with hacking too, you could lure them down with food or whatever (or just catch them whilst asleep during long distance IP) read the message and let them go - or even change said message - and nobody would know.
I guess you could rig the package to explode if tampered with. Maybe for long distance, we could use a modified avian carrier such as an albatross.
Troc
Great, someone ate the packets again.
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
www.blug.linux.no should have both cpu and
bandwith that can withstand som slashdotting.
However, there is a mirror at http://www.pvv.org/rfc1149/
- Vegard, member of BLUG and the CPIP WG.
We called it "HCP/IP."
-Omar
BTW, why are we seeing so many posts moderated so high recently? I only want to see a few posts per article, and now you get 15 at +5. Did Taco make everyone a moderator full-time or something?
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
I imagine that shortsightedness on behalf of the authors of rfc1149 meant that they'd specified duct-tape, when they didn't know that it would be inhumane to do so. Carrier pidgeons do not take kindly to having duct tape attached and then subsequently ripped off, not to mention the fact that the packet itself could become torn in the process.
There is always room for improvement over existing protocols.
Service pack for Pidgeon ver 1.0 has been announced by the spokeangel for the developer, God. Several flaws have been fixed, however, spokedemon for Hell have already found a security hole, a DOS attack dubbed birdseed.
A Hot fix is due out next week.
"Old Rallydrivers never die - they just fail to book in on time"
I can see it now.. Someone just started a bird-farm, instead of a server farm, to index MP3 requests..
wait..the RIAA has already sued the bird-farm owner..
Gives me a great new idea. If each one of us had 4 pigeons, and we pool them together, cant we beat Freenet or Gnutella ?
drop any 'packets'?
african or european?
Broadcast support isn't a problem; just have a whole bunch of pigeons pull a large packet banner for everybody on the ground to see...
/Janne
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
I head Msft already has an "improved" version in the works involving predatory hawks - your data doesn't get thru any faster but the UI is more attractive and it just naturally interfers with pidgeon carriers, causing packet droppings.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Pictures fro mthe last event are available here
- They make a big stink, and a lot of noise, but aren't really effective at anything but dying.
The process will be simple: MS will purchase several of the air cannons used to launch frozen poultry at aircraft windows to test for breaking point, and use those to launch the MS TIEE (Turkey Internet Enhanced Enabler) stack at any and all CPIP packets which get too close to Redmond, or any other MS campuses. And probably any QWest property now as well.--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
So was that spam that hit my windscreen on the way to work today? I'm NOT gonna "packet-sniff" it to see if was a commercial ad or not, but it sure as hell was unsolicited.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Not to mention out-of-order packet reception. I think we could have a rather large issue hunting for pigeon #35431 in the Great Flock. And of course, the risk of packet loss is much higher. Farmers out in their fields with shotguns have a lot lower chance of disrupting your ethernet connection but could take out pigeons #234, 54245 and 6644 with one good blast of 00 buck. Just imagine of the retransmission requests.. *shudder*
Suckey as it is, I'll stick with my csma/cd, thank you. Though it doesn't have that soothing 'coo.' :)
-'fester
I propose that once testing has been completed on a fully standards complient version of RFC 1149, testing on the implementation of RFC 2549, or "IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service", should begin. This extention of RFC 1149 adds many important features, such as quality of service, security, and traffic shaping.
Worse, quantum encryption would be impossible, doe to the carrier's inability to fly in an entangled state.
He meant open sauce.
Take a bird, open some sauce and
then cook it.
"You can catch flies till the cows come home, but wasps are a totally different kettle of fish."
As the saying goes: there is no higher bandwidth link than a UPS truck fully loaded with DVDs...
Another time related problem is the speed of attaching the datagrams to the pigeons and then reading them. We need pigeons with detachable legs so we can easily pop the data on and off of the transport mechanism (a bit like a physical implementation of mbufs, the pigeon being analogous to an Ethernet frame).
We could try little rockets or shooting them out of cannons (reduces latency) but this can lead to excessive packet loss if you try to push the birds past their limits. Routing is also an issue, you've got to give them some initial aim otherwise all that energy is just wasted. Topological routing is now appearing which could come in handy for this but does anyone have a driver for a turret mounted pigeon cannon handy?
I would imagine that a ping flood attack would look like something out of Hitchcock's The Birds ...
(don't worry, not a goatse.cx link..)
zsazsa
A DOS attack of the Avian carrier. Clip their wings, perhaps?
I also suspect CAT might cause a segment fault.
"Old Rallydrivers never die - they just fail to book in on time"
What's the air speed velocity of an unladen packet?
-if not me, someone else.
---
Hammer of Truth
How secure is this, really? I mean, is the gene sequence of pidgeons freely available for download? If I find a design flaw in the pidgeon, who do I submit patches to?
Does this mean anyone filtering packets using a Firewall could be prosecuted on charges of cruelty to animals? Dave
See for yourself...
Pic here.
"Hey Alan, stop bogarting. Pass it!"
- Packet loss - hunting season could cause major disruptions to services.
- Lack of broadcast/multicast support
- Limited packet size
- Mandatory source-routing could be a problem (I always configure my Linux kernel to drop source routed packages)
- Mating season could cause abnormal round trip delays
On the positive side, packet collisions are history - unless someone implements CPIP in a LAN that is...^]:wq!^M
One thing I really like about the open source movement is that never ceases to make me happy.
This is a great example of community acting in a fun and open way.
Not for greed, but because its fun.
A sense of community that I don't see in the rest of my life (Where I live, where I work).
It makes life worth living when you enjoy it.
Are you on the Sfglj (SF-Goth EMail Junkies List) ?
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Well, maybe not, but anyway ...
...to accommodate penguins, since they can't fly. They can swim, but I don't think the paper and duct tape will hold up too well under water.
That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
A funny little anecdote: One of the last frames (i.e. pigeons) we released actually crashed into a neighbor's bathroom window, after which Alan Cox himself commented; "Oh no, windows causing problems again." - Just thought I'd share that. :)
(BTW, I'm not officially a BLUG member, but was cordially invited by a friend of mine - thanks Karlmag! And hi mom!;)
--
McCarrum!
Robert Anton Wilson