"...Music activists Downhill Battle, who organised the Grey Tuesday protests for disseminating censored music, run a copy of the script and say 'this is a cute tool, but it has the potential to become a powerful weapon to fight the major record label monopoly' in the ways they outline..."
Did that submission sound like a press release to anybody other than me?
This most certainly is about P2P, that's why people cares about WASTE in the first place (that, and also because JF made it). It's certainly not a global P2P app like Kazaa, but most folks think of it in terms of little closed, encrypted file-sharing communities -- all clearly stated in the original Slashdot post: "encrypted chat, instant messaging and file sharing over a private peer-to-peer network." That's not about P2P?
And, as my post indicated, it certainly comes as no surprise to me to see someone now come in and say that the FSF's position -- that they themselves presume WASTE to be unauthorized -- isn't even relevant.
I personally asked FSF their opinion of the legal status of WASTE, and here's their reply:
"If WASTE's release was unauthorized, you have no rights to do anything with the software. I am not certain what you could be required to do, by law, should you be found to possess a copy."
"Unfortunately, there is no good way to determine whether or not the release was authorized or not. We are currently presuming that it was unauthorized, until we see convincing evidence otherwise."
But the thing is, I doubt anybody even cares. The logic in the P2P debate is always "I believe whatever supports my position, and I don't believe anything that speaks against my position."
In this case the FSF themselves say that they are presuming it to be unauthorized, and that therefore others have rights to do anything with the software.
"If WASTE's release was unauthorized, you have no rights to do anything with
the software. I am not certain what you could be required to do, by law,
should you be found to possess a copy."
"Unfortunately, there is no good way to determine whether or not the release
was authorized or not. We are currently presuming that it was
unauthorized, until we see convincing evidence otherwise."
"I think you just made his point. Have you ever read war and peace?"
I'm not trying to dispute any point, just give some numbers to it. The 10MB file for an hour of audio (read by perhaps a somewhat slower reader) was for about 25 pages.
According to Amazon, "War and Peace" is about 1400 pages, and so that roughly maps to 56 hours, or 560 MB total.
You can certainly stream 560 MB of audio within 56 hours, and so the only issue reagards downloading a local copy, and then it's just a question of how fast you can download 560 MB (and how fast the source server can provide it).
"I'm not buying another 1 hit wonder that has only one song"
This is one of those common excuses, but I'm genuinely curious:
1) Who are these one hit wonders with only one good song on their CD? Can you cite the one good song on otherwise all-crap CDs?
2) Do you think such CDs are intentionally made with the idea that it's all crap, except for that one song? In other words, does the band, producer, etc, not stand by their work?
Re:I fall for every April Fools Day gag!
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"You should have called it 'Andromedia'"
Here's the story of the name. I was joking around with my S.O. Amy, and I told her that I had replaced her with a perfect android replica. She asked, "what's my android name" and I just said "Andromeda."
When it came time to give it a name, that's what I picked.
PS, some people call it Andromedia anyway...;)
Re:I fall for every April Fools Day gag!
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"The is Usenet-Audio streamer _IS_ running with LIVE-audio on-line."
Yeah, and I fall for that too...;)
Re:I fall for every April Fools Day gag!
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Hey Viv,
Most recently, I've actually been putting a lot of work into the docs on the Andromeda site -- it seems lots of people never knew about many of the features *already* available.;)
I'm also trying to help highlight user sites, like bands that want their music shared.
PS, you're certainly free to contact me anytime via email.
-Scott
I fall for every April Fools Day gag!
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Sheesh, even though I make streaming software, I still fall for this (and every) April Fools Day gag. If you're interested in streaming, you might want to check out my app, Andromeda.
Quitting coffee...
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· Score: 4, Interesting
I'm a pot-a-day drinker too, but every so often I like to quit for a little while (I don't much like the idea that I'm physically addicted).
When I quit, I reduce my intake by halves -- in other works, today a pot, tomorrow half a pot, and so on, until it's just a sip, and then nothing.
That makes it fairly painless to shake the monkey (no headaches).
And then it's extra fun to drink that next pot a few weeks later...;)
"You make the point yourself: 'Unauthorized copies of AutoCAD no doubt hurt AutodDesk's bottom line' "
"You conveniently left out the happy ending."
"What about the unauthorized copies of ProCAD? What ever happened to them?"
"What DID happen to them? If they went out of business, it's obviously because they didn't catch on. There was a better product out there. Don't try to blame it on piracy. Even if they were able to stop all bootleg copies, they might not have sold eneough copies to stay in business."
Of course, the problem with your logic is that a sucessful example proves your point, but an unsucessful one doesn't work in the opposite direction.
I should also point out, and sorry for having been unclear, that I made up ProCAD as a hypothetical example.
"Any ideas on how AutoCAD became the dominant CAD software before they started using a dongle, went flat while they used it, and then basically gained the monopoly position a couple of years later?"
"Unauthorized copies of AutoCAD no doubt hurt AutodDesk's bottom line... for awhile. Thereafter, it became a bottomless bag of money."
You make the point yourself: "Unauthorized copies of AutoCAD no doubt hurt AutodDesk's bottom line"
What about the unauthorized copies of ProCAD? What ever happened to them?
"Your saying that something is "just plain dumb" does not make it so. Unless you give some hard statistics, which is mighty hard with this situation, I'm not very likely to believe you."
Well, in this very subthread, one post claimed that unrestricted file-sharing helps CD sales (as opposed to the article's "has no effect") and another points out that "if you read the article, you'll find that more often than not, P2P *helps* albums, especially the most popular ones. On the other hand, it does hurt albums released by niche groups."
Sorry, but "unregulated p2p helps CD sales" is a dumb meme, and the other dumb meme is "dude, how about a tip jar"...
"The only real threat is to the established publishers."
Ok iminplaya, I guess that makes a self-employed guy like me an "established publisher". Let me know when you're actually willing to step up to the plate and tell me what *you* do for a living...
"Despite your doomsday opinion, more and more people are finding success with the internet as their distribution model."
Nobody says that the Web isn't good for distribution. The problem is that P2P is *too* good for distribution -- unauthorized distribution is ultimately at the expense of the author (or, more precisely, the copyright holder).
Again, you shouldn't feel the need to hide your age/occupation. If, for example, you're a student, you should be willing to factor that into the overall perspective...
"Are you really that convinced that there is only one way to do business?"
Absolutely not, but I am convinced that free and easy downloads are at odds with the ability to sell those same files.
"or that money is the only way to motivate people?"
You do know that I like you, right? Seriously. But you won't tell me how old you are or what you do for a living, and that makes it tough to frame your question.
As I told you last time, I'm 35 and a I make a living selling my own work. It's tough and it's fun, but to characterize people like me as interested in nothing other than money is just way off the mark.
"Hint: the most obvious outcome isn't always the actual outcome."
Hint: the notion that unregulated P2P doesn't affect CD sales is just plain dumb.
Aren't more people getting broadband? Won't P2P apps get more reliable? Don't more and more people have CD burners?
Again, this meme -- that unregulated filesharing doesn't hurn CD sales -- it just dumb.
LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY: not so long ago, the same meme was a little different... it was that unregulated filesharing actually helps CD sales. But now it's downgraded to "doesn't hurt" -- and so, what comes next?
Slashdot Mirror
Did that submission sound like a press release to anybody other than me?
Following the poster's link lead to this.
This most certainly is about P2P, that's why people cares about WASTE in the first place (that, and also because JF made it). It's certainly not a global P2P app like Kazaa, but most folks think of it in terms of little closed, encrypted file-sharing communities -- all clearly stated in the original Slashdot post: "encrypted chat, instant messaging and file sharing over a private peer-to-peer network." That's not about P2P?
And, as my post indicated, it certainly comes as no surprise to me to see someone now come in and say that the FSF's position -- that they themselves presume WASTE to be unauthorized -- isn't even relevant.
"If WASTE's release was unauthorized, you have no rights to do anything with the software. I am not certain what you could be required to do, by law, should you be found to possess a copy."
"Unfortunately, there is no good way to determine whether or not the release was authorized or not. We are currently presuming that it was unauthorized, until we see convincing evidence otherwise."
But the thing is, I doubt anybody even cares. The logic in the P2P debate is always "I believe whatever supports my position, and I don't believe anything that speaks against my position."
In this case the FSF themselves say that they are presuming it to be unauthorized, and that therefore others have rights to do anything with the software.
But who cares what the FSF says, right?
"If WASTE's release was unauthorized, you have no rights to do anything with the software. I am not certain what you could be required to do, by law, should you be found to possess a copy."
"Unfortunately, there is no good way to determine whether or not the release was authorized or not. We are currently presuming that it was unauthorized, until we see convincing evidence otherwise."
fwiw, you might check out the streaming archive that I've been putting together...
I'm not trying to dispute any point, just give some numbers to it. The 10MB file for an hour of audio (read by perhaps a somewhat slower reader) was for about 25 pages.
According to Amazon, "War and Peace" is about 1400 pages, and so that roughly maps to 56 hours, or 560 MB total.
You can certainly stream 560 MB of audio within 56 hours, and so the only issue reagards downloading a local copy, and then it's just a question of how fast you can download 560 MB (and how fast the source server can provide it).
I finally settled on 24kbit/s (at 11Khz, mono). And so, they should even stream over modems -- and an hour of audio comes out to only about 10 MB...
Along these lines, I assembled a streaming version of Lessig's new book "Free Culture", with contributed readings by assorted folks...
OK, and Allmusic (a source I find to be quite reliable) gives "C'mon C'mon" 4.5 out of 5 stars. (and Trust Company got a respectable 3).
This is one of those common excuses, but I'm genuinely curious:
1) Who are these one hit wonders with only one good song on their CD? Can you cite the one good song on otherwise all-crap CDs?
2) Do you think such CDs are intentionally made with the idea that it's all crap, except for that one song? In other words, does the band, producer, etc, not stand by their work?
Here's the story of the name. I was joking around with my S.O. Amy, and I told her that I had replaced her with a perfect android replica. She asked, "what's my android name" and I just said "Andromeda."
When it came time to give it a name, that's what I picked.
PS, some people call it Andromedia anyway... ;)
Yeah, and I fall for that too... ;)
Most recently, I've actually been putting a lot of work into the docs on the Andromeda site -- it seems lots of people never knew about many of the features *already* available. ;)
I'm also trying to help highlight user sites, like bands that want their music shared.
PS, you're certainly free to contact me anytime via email.
-Scott
Sheesh, even though I make streaming software, I still fall for this (and every) April Fools Day gag. If you're interested in streaming, you might want to check out my app, Andromeda.
When I quit, I reduce my intake by halves -- in other works, today a pot, tomorrow half a pot, and so on, until it's just a sip, and then nothing.
That makes it fairly painless to shake the monkey (no headaches).
And then it's extra fun to drink that next pot a few weeks later... ;)
"What about the unauthorized copies of ProCAD? What ever happened to them?"
Of course, the problem with your logic is that a sucessful example proves your point, but an unsucessful one doesn't work in the opposite direction.
I should also point out, and sorry for having been unclear, that I made up ProCAD as a hypothetical example.
"Unauthorized copies of AutoCAD no doubt hurt AutodDesk's bottom line... for awhile. Thereafter, it became a bottomless bag of money."
You make the point yourself: "Unauthorized copies of AutoCAD no doubt hurt AutodDesk's bottom line"
What about the unauthorized copies of ProCAD? What ever happened to them?
Ok, let's try another way: if the same study had said "P2P is bad for CD sales" what would your reaction have been?
Well, in this very subthread, one post claimed that unrestricted file-sharing helps CD sales (as opposed to the article's "has no effect") and another points out that "if you read the article, you'll find that more often than not, P2P *helps* albums, especially the most popular ones. On the other hand, it does hurt albums released by niche groups."
Sorry, but "unregulated p2p helps CD sales" is a dumb meme, and the other dumb meme is "dude, how about a tip jar"...
Ok iminplaya, I guess that makes a self-employed guy like me an "established publisher". Let me know when you're actually willing to step up to the plate and tell me what *you* do for a living...
Nobody says that the Web isn't good for distribution. The problem is that P2P is *too* good for distribution -- unauthorized distribution is ultimately at the expense of the author (or, more precisely, the copyright holder).
Again, you shouldn't feel the need to hide your age/occupation. If, for example, you're a student, you should be willing to factor that into the overall perspective...
Absolutely not, but I am convinced that free and easy downloads are at odds with the ability to sell those same files.
"or that money is the only way to motivate people?"
You do know that I like you, right? Seriously. But you won't tell me how old you are or what you do for a living, and that makes it tough to frame your question.
As I told you last time, I'm 35 and a I make a living selling my own work. It's tough and it's fun, but to characterize people like me as interested in nothing other than money is just way off the mark.
But even if it only hurts albums released by niche groups, aren't those *exactly* the sort of folks to be most concerned about?
The only thing dumber than the notion that unregulated P2P doesn't affect CD sales is the notion that unregulated P2P actually helps them.
Fat pipe, indeed.
Hint: the notion that unregulated P2P doesn't affect CD sales is just plain dumb.
Aren't more people getting broadband? Won't P2P apps get more reliable? Don't more and more people have CD burners?
Again, this meme -- that unregulated filesharing doesn't hurn CD sales -- it just dumb.
LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY: not so long ago, the same meme was a little different... it was that unregulated filesharing actually helps CD sales. But now it's downgraded to "doesn't hurt" -- and so, what comes next?