And THAT attitude is one of the reasons Linux on the desktop has such a small amount of users.
Users are why software exists in the first place. Now I know in the open source movement, some developers get a big head and talk about scratching a personal itch, but when you release the thing to the public then you have an ethical responsibility to the users.
Sure you can put a no warranty clause in the license, but disrespect the userbase and then the software has no users. And software that has no users is dead software.
The gimp developers KNEW that most of their userbase, even on Linux, was using non-tiling WM's And one guy living in the past of WM's stood in the way of implementing a single window mode that would have benefitted more users than practically any other feature since EVERYONE has to deal with the UI.
Besides.. "new features"? How long have they been working on GEGL now....15 YEARS.
So don't give me that "bearded FSF Zealot style" lecture accusing people that complain of being "freeloaders". If you don't want people to use the software for free...start a company, release binaries, don't release the source and charge money.
Old isn't bad, but if say someone designs an application like it's only going to be used by members of the "bearded computer priesthood at MIT in 1972", then they might find that people who DON'T use computers like members of the "MIT bearded priesthood" are going to have issues with it.
Designing GIMP so that it was annoying under modern KDE/GNOME/XFCE, (even back in 2002 that was the case) and then having the GIMPdeveloper equivalent to the "Bearded priesthood" tell GIMP users they were "doing it wrong" and should use some old-fashioned WM like TWM or some other tiling WM, wasn't really the best way to handle the UI issues.
It is nice that console users are getting it even if we PS4 owners have to wait a bit longer.
I've always said that some of the more fervent "PC gamer partisan types" should avoid saying things like "$GAME will never be on consoles". Because it's sometimes not true from the moment they say it.
I remember letters in PC gaming magazines and statements on the net later on, saying things like
"consoles will never have an action packed bloodathon like DOOM. Console makers will never allow it." (Cue DOOM getting ported to every console under the sun)
"Consoles will never have a game from Bioware/Blizzard/Bethesda"
"Consoles will never have MMO's" (I saw someone make this statement AFTER EQOA and FFXI had been released)
"Consoles will never have Minecraft"
"You'll never play a game like IL2 with a HOTAS on a console." (cue IL2 with HOTAS support on console.)
"PC's have esports like LoL, consoles will never have a MOBA" (I've also seen this statement made AFTER the first console MOBA had been released)
There it is, the old "The name isn't offensive to foreigners" excuse Yeah that's the standard Gimpdev response now since euro-devs now. dominate Gimp development The classic "Gimpel is an attractive european bullfinch" response, for example.
Well, that's bunk. As TFA states, the GIMP was a project at an AMERICAN university, started by NATIVE English speakers who should have known better than to give it that name but were so in love with their own cleverness and geeky-Pulp fiction-reference-making that they kept it.
I absolutely hate having all the random bits strewn all over my desktop rather than neatly contained in a program window
GIMP has a single window mode now. It's a checkbox option in the "windows" menu. Works well if you're using a more modern Desktop environment instead of some silly archaic WM from 1996 the GIMP developers probably use. Single-window mode isn't enabled by default.
Not just because it doesn't have hardware acceleration
Actually it did/does. I know it had both MIPS (including mipsel) and Altivec optimization. Altivec enhancements were why running certain filters is faster on GIMP running on say..a PS3 with a YDL install vs running on X86.
AFAIK GIMP doesn't have any GPU enhancements though.
Yep. I even tried out that Photoshop version under wine, it worked fairly well.
Though doing so changed a bunch of text icons in Thunar to wine bottles because for some silly reason Wine overrode the mime types and assigned text files as Adobe Workspace files for some reason. I STILL haven't got that entirely fixed.
A native Mac OS X version was released in May 2015.[53] Although there are no plans for a Linux version of the game, Braben has stated, "There is no reason why COBRA cannot run on Linux, running through OpenGL."[54] On 5 March 2015, Frontier confirmed at GDC that work was underway on bringing the game to Xbox One consoles, with David Braben later confirming via Twitter that the Xbox One version would be a timed exclusive and that game would eventually also be released on PlayStation 4.[55] A "preview" version of the game for Xbox One was later released via the Xbox Game Preview Program on 15 June 2015 during Microsoft's briefing at the Electronic Entertainment Expo 2015.[9][10]
The XBox One version got it's actual release in October:
+ Games that will never be on the console, such as RTS's,
I could be playing an RTS on my PS3 in less than a minute.
Terraria, etc.
You might want to double check your mental list of games that aren't on consoles because Terraria most certainly IS on console...several consoles and portables have it.
IIRC they did charge a small fee under certain circumstances. I think I had to pay 20 bucks to get one fixed, but that might have been a 39001 rather than the 30001 series with the DRE defect.
They don't charge a lot to fix PS3's either and they actually FIX it, you get you your same PS3 back. I have a CECHE model PS3 that was having graphical glitches and freezes.
Early model PS2's have drives that can flake out with Disc Read Errors after some years. However, the 50001 FAT model series (the one with integrated IR) are built like tanks, and about as heavy especially if you have the PS2 HDD in it. I never had a slim so can't compare them to FAT PS2's.
So if I make them follow my FSF-aligned beliefs, I'm just going to alienate them from me and from the ideas of the FSF.
Then it becomes a question of whether I hate patent-wielding, FUD-spreading, monopoly tactics, proprietary operating system Microsoft more than I hate insecure customer data, insecure company servers, kings of DRM and bad rootkit DRM Sony.
vi? VI? do you also stroke your beard and tug your suspenders as you pine for the days of pine over a serial line?
vi is for lickspittles who say "by gum", "geewillickers" and "23 skidoo" as they ride their velocipedes.
you should be using vim, and probably already are since it was sometimes just a script that ran vim with a few options enabled to make it more vi-ish, or provided by the vim-minimal package.
With every operating system, there is a learning curve. That's what introductory books about an OS, and for more advanced users, those big fat O'Reilly books. Also, guess what happens if you type just "help" in a terminal:
$ help
GNU bash, version 4.3.42(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. (cut big list of commands)
Turns out that even the SNES emulator (forget which) would be stupidly slow thanks to the hypervisor taking over half the resources on the ps3.
What? SNES emulation ran fairly well for me when I tested it. Did you have VRAM swap enabled? And which Desktop environment were you running? It matters, for some reason the default E17 caused a performance hit. You were better off running Gnome2 or XFCE
My Linux system (Fedora) can become unresponsive under seriously heavy disk I/O or swap load. I've seen Firefox do it rarely, but for me it's more often the linux versions of the Second Life client (including third party versions). The damn thing has memory leaks and WILL eat all your RAM and swap space if you run it for long enough.
you essentially just said you don't see any other uses for the ability to run Linux on hardware that was purpose built for media playback other than military cluster computing and game piracy? Either you are being intentionally obtuse with the intention of trolling or you are incredibly unimaginative and just plain ignorant of the potential the PS3 had as a HTPC running Linux.
Indeed. I had YDL on mine. It could handle plenty of basic computing tasks. For example, Firefox on the PS3 was a much better browser than the silly Netfront based browser the PS3 had at first. (The browser the PS3 currently has is by the same company but is webkit now, it's "some" better)
It was great for music playback, more functionality than what is built into the PS3. Video not so much, unless 720p or lower.
It had OO, GIMP. and most of the usual applications LInux distros have. There was even IBM's Java for PPC. YDL even had LaTeX.
I know some people who had YDL installs only installed it to run emulators. Some people even had Win95 running under QEMU.on it.
If you bought a PS3 able to boot Linux (an advertised feature,
I wouldn't exactly call OtherOS an "advertised feature". Sure a few Sony people talked about it in interviews with sites like Ars, but that's not really advertisement but promotion. They're two different things. Use the right word for the job. OtherOS was "promoted" and "documented" (In the PS3's larger manual), but not "advertised". Hell, Sony's "OpenPlatform" website wasn't actually indexed by search engines back when the PS3 launched.
[quote] and on the box)[/quote]
OtherOS/Linux was never mentioned on the box, go check, I'll wait.
The ps3 slims removed that feature from the box description.
NO PS3 boxes mention OtherOS or Linux, I don't know why some people think they did. And yes, I have checked. (CECHE model PS3) Did some shops in the UK/EU slap Tux stickers on PS3's or something?
Slashdot Mirror
And THAT attitude is one of the reasons Linux on the desktop has such a small amount of users.
Users are why software exists in the first place. Now I know in the open source movement, some developers get a big head and talk about scratching a personal itch, but when you release the thing to the public then you have an ethical responsibility to the users.
Sure you can put a no warranty clause in the license, but disrespect the userbase and then the software has no users. And software that has no users is dead software.
The gimp developers KNEW that most of their userbase, even on Linux, was using non-tiling WM's And one guy living in the past of WM's stood in the way of implementing a single window mode that would have benefitted more users than practically any other feature since EVERYONE has to deal with the UI.
Besides.. "new features"? How long have they been working on GEGL now....15 YEARS.
So don't give me that "bearded FSF Zealot style" lecture accusing people that complain of being "freeloaders". If you don't want people to use the software for free...start a company, release binaries, don't release the source and charge money.
Old isn't bad, but if say someone designs an application like it's only going to be used by members of the "bearded computer priesthood at MIT in 1972", then they might find that people who DON'T use computers like members of the "MIT bearded priesthood" are going to have issues with it.
Designing GIMP so that it was annoying under modern KDE/GNOME/XFCE, (even back in 2002 that was the case) and then having the GIMPdeveloper equivalent to the "Bearded priesthood" tell GIMP users they were "doing it wrong" and should use some old-fashioned WM like TWM or some other tiling WM, wasn't really the best way to handle the UI issues.
It is nice that console users are getting it even if we PS4 owners have to wait a bit longer.
I've always said that some of the more fervent "PC gamer partisan types" should avoid saying things like "$GAME will never be on consoles". Because it's sometimes not true from the moment they say it.
I remember letters in PC gaming magazines and statements on the net later on, saying things like
"consoles will never have an action packed bloodathon like DOOM. Console makers will never allow it." (Cue DOOM getting ported to every console under the sun)
"Consoles will never have a game from Bioware/Blizzard/Bethesda"
"Consoles will never have MMO's" (I saw someone make this statement AFTER EQOA and FFXI had been released)
"Consoles will never have Minecraft"
"You'll never play a game like IL2 with a HOTAS on a console." (cue IL2 with HOTAS support on console.)
"PC's have esports like LoL, consoles will never have a MOBA" (I've also seen this statement made AFTER the first console MOBA had been released)
Hi there Gimp developer!
There it is, the old "The name isn't offensive to foreigners" excuse Yeah that's the standard Gimpdev response now since euro-devs now. dominate Gimp development The classic "Gimpel is an attractive european bullfinch" response, for example.
Well, that's bunk. As TFA states, the GIMP was a project at an AMERICAN university, started by NATIVE English speakers who should have known better than to give it that name but were so in love with their own cleverness and geeky-Pulp fiction-reference-making that they kept it.
They should have known better.
The "fix" is to get a window manager that doesn't suck. If you have a non sucky WM
what something out of 1987 like TWM? Or some other archaic thing like Icewm, Windowmaker, or one of the fluxbox variants?
That's one of the big issues with open source development, too many developers are stuck in the past and use computers like it was 1964 or 74 or 84.
I absolutely hate having all the random bits strewn all over my desktop rather than neatly contained in a program window
GIMP has a single window mode now. It's a checkbox option in the "windows" menu. Works well if you're using a more modern Desktop environment instead of some silly archaic WM from 1996 the GIMP developers probably use. Single-window mode isn't enabled by default.
Not just because it doesn't have hardware acceleration
Actually it did/does. I know it had both MIPS (including mipsel) and Altivec optimization. Altivec enhancements were why running certain filters is faster on GIMP running on say..a PS3 with a YDL install vs running on X86.
AFAIK GIMP doesn't have any GPU enhancements though.
Yep. I even tried out that Photoshop version under wine, it worked fairly well.
Though doing so changed a bunch of text icons in Thunar to wine bottles because for some silly reason Wine overrode the mime types and assigned text files as Adobe Workspace files for some reason. I STILL haven't got that entirely fixed.
Yes, if you fucking need Elite Dangerous, you need a goddamned PC. No console will ever do that.
Ahem! From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The XBox One version got it's actual release in October:
https://store.xbox.com/en-US/X...
+ Games that will never be on the console, such as RTS's,
I could be playing an RTS on my PS3 in less than a minute.
Terraria, etc.
You might want to double check your mental list of games that aren't on consoles because Terraria most certainly IS on console...several consoles and portables have it.
+ Mouse / Keyboard / Throttle == Elite:Dangerous bliss
HOTAS? You mean that thing I could plug in and play IL2 on the PS3, or War Thunder on the PS4 with? And Elite Dangerous isn't PC exclusive.
+ 3D support
Consoles also have this, though it's considered a gimmick.
- crappy FPS gamepad
Depends on the game, besides there have been console shooters with keyboard and mouse support.
IIRC they did charge a small fee under certain circumstances. I think I had to pay 20 bucks to get one fixed, but that might have been a 39001 rather than the 30001 series with the DRE defect.
They don't charge a lot to fix PS3's either and they actually FIX it, you get you your same PS3 back. I have a CECHE model PS3 that was having graphical glitches and freezes.
Early model PS2's have drives that can flake out with Disc Read Errors after some years. However, the 50001 FAT model series (the one with integrated IR) are built like tanks, and about as heavy especially if you have the PS2 HDD in it. I never had a slim so can't compare them to FAT PS2's.
So if I make them follow my FSF-aligned beliefs, I'm just going to alienate them from me and from the ideas of the FSF.
Then it becomes a question of whether I hate patent-wielding, FUD-spreading, monopoly tactics, proprietary operating system Microsoft more than I hate insecure customer data, insecure company servers, kings of DRM and bad rootkit DRM Sony.
At least the PS4 is running BSD.
vi? VI? do you also stroke your beard and tug your suspenders as you pine for the days of pine over a serial line?
vi is for lickspittles who say "by gum", "geewillickers" and "23 skidoo" as they ride their velocipedes.
you should be using vim, and probably already are since it was sometimes just a script that ran vim with a few options enabled to make it more vi-ish, or provided by the vim-minimal package.
In XFCE on Fedora: Applications>Accessories>Application Finder
With every operating system, there is a learning curve. That's what introductory books about an OS, and for more advanced users, those big fat O'Reilly books. Also, guess what happens if you type just "help" in a terminal:
$ help
GNU bash, version 4.3.42(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)
These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list.
Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'.
Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general.
Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list.
(cut big list of commands)
all it does is list the contents of /bin and /usr/bin where most Linux binaries live You probably had a typo or something.
"apropos" is what helps you find new commands
You put in a disc, a "Blu-ray disc" tile will show up in the UI. select it with the controller.
Turns out that even the SNES emulator (forget which) would be stupidly slow thanks to the hypervisor taking over half the resources on the ps3.
What? SNES emulation ran fairly well for me when I tested it. Did you have VRAM swap enabled? And which Desktop environment were you running? It matters, for some reason the default E17 caused a performance hit. You were better off running Gnome2 or XFCE
My Linux system (Fedora) can become unresponsive under seriously heavy disk I/O or swap load. I've seen Firefox do it rarely, but for me it's more often the linux versions of the Second Life client (including third party versions). The damn thing has memory leaks and WILL eat all your RAM and swap space if you run it for long enough.
you essentially just said you don't see any other uses for the ability to run Linux on hardware that was purpose built for media playback other than military cluster computing and game piracy? Either you are being intentionally obtuse with the intention of trolling or you are incredibly unimaginative and just plain ignorant of the potential the PS3 had as a HTPC running Linux.
Indeed. I had YDL on mine. It could handle plenty of basic computing tasks. For example, Firefox on the PS3 was a much better browser than the silly Netfront based browser the PS3 had at first. (The browser the PS3 currently has is by the same company but is webkit now, it's "some" better)
It was great for music playback, more functionality than what is built into the PS3. Video not so much, unless 720p or lower.
It had OO, GIMP. and most of the usual applications LInux distros have. There was even IBM's Java for PPC. YDL even had LaTeX.
I know some people who had YDL installs only installed it to run emulators. Some people even had Win95 running under QEMU.on it.
If you bought a PS3 able to boot Linux (an advertised feature,
I wouldn't exactly call OtherOS an "advertised feature". Sure a few Sony people talked about it in interviews with sites like Ars, but that's not really advertisement but promotion. They're two different things. Use the right word for the job. OtherOS was "promoted" and "documented" (In the PS3's larger manual), but not "advertised". Hell, Sony's "OpenPlatform" website wasn't actually indexed by search engines back when the PS3 launched.
[quote] and on the box)[/quote]
OtherOS/Linux was never mentioned on the box, go check, I'll wait.
The ps3 slims removed that feature from the box description.
NO PS3 boxes mention OtherOS or Linux, I don't know why some people think they did. And yes, I have checked. (CECHE model PS3) Did some shops in the UK/EU slap Tux stickers on PS3's or something?
Why hasn't the PC had a similar "death spiral into shovelware"
Haven't you seen all the low budget mediocre indie shovelware out there?
And it is something of a death spiral, because developers that want to make "real money" go cross platform in ways that they didn't do in the past.