Just because someone says "family computer" doesn't mean they want to hear a joke about the NES's Japanese name. Do you tell the same joke to every one you know every time they say something like "I need a new computer for the family" or "our family computer is an HP"
You don't get it, Chromebooks aren't for professional photo-editors that need the $600 Adobe-foo application...they're for the people who want to browse the web, and maybe post some cat pictures to their facebook.
They can do that on a Chromebook and don't need Photoshop.
Yes, until Mom/Dad/kids/salespeople ask why can't they use Microsoft Word
Who says they will ever need to use Microsoft Word? Many long years ago there were word processors that cost a lot of money for offices (WordPerfect, Wordstar, PC Write)...and then there were $50 (or less) word processors for the home/kids (GeoWrite, Paperclip, Speedscript, Bank Street Writer). Those separate markets existed because people hadn't been told yet that they needed to buy into the Microsoft/Intel Hegemony because they "might" need to bring work home from the office.
THAT was one of the things that killed the "true home computer market"...but now that market is returning..we call it the tablet/chromebook market now.
You are way way too literal. No he meant "family computer" as in "the family owns one computer that it shares" rather than "everyone has their own computing device" situation of the present.
Even downstate, many channels had film libraries. WCIA in Champaign in particular, not counting things like that "Family Classics" syndicated movie thing or "Silver Screen":on WILL.
Course once VCR's became popular movie studios realized their libraries were valuable...and then the TV stations had to fill their afternoons with Phil and eventually Oprah.
And the cable channels...TBS hasn't shown The Beastmaster in ages, and TNT the former home of Monstervision is now the Police Procedural Channel with L & O, Southland, etc. USA has become home to quirky dramas that really belong on NBC, instead of Commander USA, Kung Fu Theatre and USA "UP" All Night.
And while I like AMC's original shows (except the reality stuff) it has cut down drastically on their movie classics.
No more Sonia Braga movies on Bravo either, and A&E doesn't do "arts"...they used to show classical concerts!
(A couple of days ago I tried to install Linux on a 7 year old office machine which runs office apps just perfectly under XP, and my first experience on reboot was a login screen where you had to wait about half a second for each character to appear. Not good.)
Should have installed a 7 year old version of Linux.... I kid, I kid. The thing was probably trying to use accerlated X on the desktop. Which distro was it? Try an XFCE based variant/spin, that should do the trick.
But isn't this... extremely, painfully trivial? Do people really graduate and not know how to do this?
I am not a programmer, the last time I did any programming was back in High School...and one PL/C class, but that's it and it was almost 30 years ago, and I was thinking the same thing.
Wouldn't a FizzBuzz program look like something this:
For input check to see if input is a number and not letter or symbol, if true, then continue. If false, return and get a new input.
Declare subroutine "check_evenly_divisible_sub" for checking if a number has anything to the right of the decimal point, if so, then evenly_divisible_var = false. else evenly_divisible_var = true
Take input, divide by 3, send result to."check_evenly_divisible_sub" If evenly_divisible_var = true then set fizz_status_var = fizz, else fizz_status_var ="" (null string)
Take input, divide by 5, send result to "check_evenly_divisible_sub". If evenly_divisible_var = true then buzz_status_var = buzz, else buzz_status_var ="" (null string)
print "fizzbuzz status for", input, "is" fizz_status_var, buzz_status_var, \n
My point is that we need LESS non-programmer work from RMS! His extreme positions are doing Free Software no favors.
you replied that the real people we should thank for GNOME are coder Miguel de Icaza and dotcom startup Eazel
Yes, they did the real work. And now the grunt work behind Gnome is done by people working for IBM and Red Hat.
He's been doing non-programmer work full-time for about twenty years now. Including launching four desktop projects and doing everything he can to make them a success
He should have done it right...the first time. And if he wants to make Free Software a success he needs to stop being so extreme!
And with GNOME he did.
The man didn't DO anything in regards to GNOME. Yes yes, the GNU project was there behind the scenes, and that was good but HE isn't the person we should be thanking directly. He doesn't even use Gnome, he lives in Emacs in the console! The man is stuck in the computing paradigms of his MIT days.
The man can also be a bit of a jerk, he'll betray his own principles...as long as the downsides don't affect him.
refuse to have supermarket frequent buyer cards of my own because they are a form of surveillance. I am willing to pay extra for my privacy and to resist an abusive system. See nocards.org for more explanation of this issue.
However, I don't mind using someone else's card or number once in a while, to avoid the extra charge for not using a card. That doesn't track me.
When I need to call someone, I ask someone nearby to let me make a call. If I use someone else's cell phone, that doesn't give Big Brother any information about me.
And even his mode of usage fits very well with Web 1.0, so you exaggerate when you say 1970s paradigm.
Not by much. He says he lives in the console with emacs (written in 1976)..which was inspired by TECO which was written in the 60's. His computer usage is not that dis-similar to some university guy sitting in front of a VT100...or ASR33.
The problem is the rest of the world has moved past that...and Stallman hasn't..
As such, binary blobs and other proprietary code --yes, even drivers-- are kept strictly virtualized.
That sounds interesting. Problem is, Stallman would probably be opposed to even doing that at all, saying that even virtualized binary blogs were anathema to free software.
IMO they are far too trusting of hardware manufacturers.
I can't believe that Stallman uses that Chinese MIPS machine.
People around the world are walking away from proprietary computing in droves, and the ones who aren't have already internalized the zeitgeist that will eventually lead to sharp reductions in closed components
They are? So Apple and Samsung aren't selling tons of phones/tablets, business users are dumping their XP/Vista/7/8 boxes for Trisquel on MIPS, and google isn't selling lots of Chromebooks, and Sony and Microsoft haven't sold millions of PlayStation-foos and Xbox-foos?
The only people walking away from propietary computing tend to be those who were already FSF supporters...not the masses.
Of course, with the direction of modern UI/UX (e.g. chrome/firefox, Metro and iOS), I don't know if that would be much of an improvement.
Don't forget Unity and Gnome3's Gnome-shell.
I keep saying there was a reason the CDE/Win9x+ UI paradigm became so popular. I have my XFCE desktop set up so that it resembles that UI
From left to right: application menu, quick start buttons for files, reboot/restart/shutdown, quick start for terminal (mrxvt), claws-mail, firefox, second life, "taskbar":for running applications, volume control, systray, clock.
I even use the Redmond theme..always did like red close buttons.
Who is the #1 spokesperson of the FSF? Who is the Face of the FSF? Who is the guy that Slashdot posts about every position statement he makes?
RMS
He founded it, he created it. They are promoting this laptop because of HIS ideals...which were basically set in the 70's. When the people with access to computers were either programmers, or at universities.
It's a new world out there, and the FSF isn't as relevant in a world of Grandmas on facebook. You send most people to the FSF site and they'd go:
"What? They don't want me to use Flash, Facebook, binary drivers, propietary anything! How am I supposed to use a computer?"
And then the FSF says "Use this machine...but oh, it can't do what you want to do. And in fact is designed to not let you.bypass the restrictions we want there to be on non-open source software"
At least with Debian they could use the non-free repositories/restricted extras. To the Grandmas, and even to me, something like GNewSense and Trisquel restrict my choices and freedom MORE than even plain Debian or Fedora.
If the FSF doesn't want Grandmas or Me to use Skype, then they need to come up with something better that people other than ex MIT AI-Labs grad students will want to use and adopt.
GNU has more than a hundred successful software projects. Some are cornerstones of the operating system, and you're moaning because there are some GNU projects which haven't been successful. And how are your microkernel and your Flash replacement coming along? Written any good compilers or standard c libraries recently?
Oh, so if one isn't a programmer they shouldn't criticize the excessive zealotry of the FSF which is heading into silly territory with that outdated overpriced laptop.
Besides, you are FSF member #8, you are not unbiased in this matter. You used to work for the FSF and are probably ticked that I'm calling on the FSF to be more "practical". I bet you're even ticked I call it "Linux". and not GNU/Linux. Well In common English usage we often use short and snappy words for things. Car rather than automobile, plane rather than airplane. Linux instead of GNU/Linux.
If RMS want's his ideals achieved then there has to be "Free" software for those who weren't students at MIT, and the FSF simply isn't very good at getting that done. At least not without IBM or RedHat throwing money and workers at it. The behind the scenes stuff (libraries/compilers/etc) is all well and good, but they're mostly mature. But we need good Free software besides that. Maybe you live in emacs in a console, but the number of people like you are minimal. The FSF needs to focus more on Software for the Masses, not just for those who have taken programming classes.
Nope that's not me, I just think Stallman needs to drop most of the rhetoric, join the real world and make software that is useful to people whose first text editor wasn't TECO. I mean how much more "stuff" does emacs need, when GNASH is no where near the functionality of Adobe Flash.
If Stallman hates propietary closed source software so much, how about some "Free" replacements...besides the replacements for compilers/debuggers/system tools.
It's almost 2014, and while we've got LaTeX for those math geeks doing dissertations we still don't have a "Free" equivalent to "Print Shop". No, LibreOffice isn't it.
It's almost 2014, and The GIMP, while better than it was is STILL lacking...how long have we been waiting for GEGL?
It's almost 2014, and we still don't have an equivalent to Dragon Naturally Speaking.
If Stallman wants people to use Free software he's got to be able to convince the masses, not just FSF member grognards who don't use X and live in Emacs.
I use Linux (currently Fedora 20) every day, but there is no way in hell I am not using the Nvidia driver via RPMFusion because Nouveau isn't up to snuff. I have Skype installed because that's what people who aren't FSF zealots use. I don't audit every piece of javascript in my browser because I'm not some FSF zealot, I simply don't have the time/knowledge to mess with that.
FSF Zealotry is fine for Stallman since it's his job, but the FSF ideals are simply not practical for real-world modern computing. He's lost the war, it's that simple. A little bit of practical pragmatism would do the FSF good, like approving Debian...I mean my god, Debian's not approved by the FSF because they allow you to install/link to non-free software.
I am aware of Icaza and Microsoft technologies, and understand the ire, but that doesn't mean that Stallman's Ideals are "Practical", or that he or the FSF doesn't need to learn how people other than former MIT grad students use computers and design good free software for THEM.
Sure, I have no love for Icaza, but I think Stallman needs a dose of computer reality.
GNOME is a GNU project....now. But that doesn't mean they created it other than promoting it.
RMS spent years promoting it and getting people to work on it. He still does.
Why Yes, GNU has plenty of projects that RMS promotes....how is that Flash replacement thing coming along.....
Promotion doesn't get shit done. Take a look at Gnome and the Gnome foundation that runs it... take a look who founded the Gnome Foundation:
It was founded on 15 August 2000 by Compaq, Eazel, Helix Code, IBM, Red Hat, Sun Microsystems and VA Linux Systems.
RMS can do all the advocacy and promotion and Fantasyland Idealism he wants when the grunt work of actually finishing and releasing usable software is done by employees of for-profit companies or universities.
It's easy to be a FSF idealist when you squat at an office that MIT lets you use....yes I know he has an actual place now.
The toolkit is a GNU project, born from another GNU project.
It is...now...but wasn't when it was created at UCB.
You seem to be trying to make GNU disappear by arguing that nothing matters but lines of code
Lines of code matter, what use is software that isn't finished/usable. How are HURD and GNASH coming along? The whole reason we have Linux is because GNU and the FSF are bunch of neckbeards living in a 70's world of computer interaction that are more about their Ideals, taking extreme positions and being blowhards when people don't follow their positions, than actually getting shit done.
I would love to have an open Flash replacement but 10 YEARS after I first heard of GNASH it still isn't ready for prime-time.
Then KDE was launched, with the then-proprietary QT toolkit. The problem was so urgent that FSF launched two projects to fix it, GNOME and Harmony. Harmony was a project to replace the QT toolkit, but it wasn't a success.
Gnome wasn't started by the FSF itself, but by Miguel de Icaza While it has a recursive name referencing GNU it' isn't one of their projects. It uses the GTK tookit, which was created by a university, University of California at Berkeley, not the FSF. Besides, the Nautilus file manager was developed by a for-profit company called Eazel...look it up:
GNOME was a success. So much of a success that it was, IMO, what lead to QT being freed. So we've FSF to thank for directly making GNOME, and indirectly for licence changes in QT.
That must be why in 2009, RMS called Miguel de Icaza a "Traitor to the Free Software Community"
But as usual, people try to avoid crediting FSF, so a lot of people don't know this.
Yes, the FSF and GNU project deserves some credit, for creating the tools, but beyond that...just beause those tools are used to create other things, doesn't mean we should kowtow to Stallman for every thing made using those tools.
He probably turns his connection on or off as needed.
E-mailed web pages...On.
Having to use a graphical browser...turn off the network connection first.
But he uses some Chinese MIPS machine...how does he know they haven't stuck in some hardware spychip....unless he has ANOTHER machine packet sniffing/monitoring his network connection between his Lemote machine and the network.
In 1995 they said we'd never have a decent GUI desktop. In 1997, they said we'd never have a free web browser. Then they said we'd never have a free office suite.
And none of those things were done by the FSF itself. Stallman himself doesn't use those things. If we were waiting on the FSF to have a graphical web browser we still wouldn't have one. They'd be telling us to use some kind of lisp addon within emacs to show images in a separate emacs buffer after having another machine download the images separately and then sending them to our machine in an e-mail.
In part they are able to get away with living in Fantasyland because they still use computers the same way they did when they were students at MIT back in the 70's, not like the way most everyone else uses computers.
For goodness sake, RMS doesn't actually use a web browser like "normal people do:
I spend most of my time editing in Emacs. I read and send mail with Emacs using M-x rmail and C-x m. I have no experience with any other email client programs. In principle I would be glad to know about other free email clients, but learning about them is not a priority for me and I don't have time.
There's nothing wrong with using Emacs... but the vast majority of computer users don't use a text editor to read their e-mail. If one wants to make a free operating system that is of use to people who don't have neckbeards...then perhaps one should learn about Non-Emacs reading of E-mail. It's not that hard to learn a E-mail client...it's not like learning lisp.
I edit the pages on this site with Emacs also, although volunteer helpers install the political notes and urgent notes. I have no experience with other ways of maintaining web sites. In principle I would be glad to know about other ways, but learning about them is not a priority for me and I don't have time.
Not even Seamonkey's composer.
I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (but I make sure I have no net connection, so that it won't fetch anything else).
I sometimes use Google's search engine, and I sometimes use DuckDuckGo. When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course.
That more than anything else shows the disconnnect in how a Free Software most fervent promoters use computers compared to everyone else. No wonder they seem so "Fantasyland"
I think it would serve RMS or any other hardcore FSFer to actually watch how people who are NOT FSF members actually use computers and then design a free operating system for them...not just bearded guys still using 1970's paradigms who know nothing about modern computer use.
Slashdot Mirror
Just because someone says "family computer" doesn't mean they want to hear a joke about the NES's Japanese name. Do you tell the same joke to every one you know every time they say something like "I need a new computer for the family" or "our family computer is an HP"
You don't get it, Chromebooks aren't for professional photo-editors that need the $600 Adobe-foo application...they're for the people who want to browse the web, and maybe post some cat pictures to their facebook.
They can do that on a Chromebook and don't need Photoshop.
apparently this Crouton chroot thingy that got mentioned in this discussion, that I hadn't heard of before, lets you install Skype for Linux.
Yes, until Mom/Dad/kids/salespeople ask why can't they use Microsoft Word
Who says they will ever need to use Microsoft Word? Many long years ago there were word processors that cost a lot of money for offices (WordPerfect, Wordstar, PC Write)...and then there were $50 (or less) word processors for the home/kids (GeoWrite, Paperclip, Speedscript, Bank Street Writer). Those separate markets existed because people hadn't been told yet that they needed to buy into the Microsoft/Intel Hegemony because they "might" need to bring work home from the office.
THAT was one of the things that killed the "true home computer market"...but now that market is returning..we call it the tablet/chromebook market now.
You don't... you port Mega Man to something with real buttons, like a DS/PSP/Vita.
Different devices, different uses, different games.
You are way way too literal. No he meant "family computer" as in "the family owns one computer that it shares" rather than "everyone has their own computing device" situation of the present.
Don't forget Creature Feature!
Even downstate, many channels had film libraries. WCIA in Champaign in particular, not counting things like that "Family Classics" syndicated movie thing or "Silver Screen":on WILL.
Course once VCR's became popular movie studios realized their libraries were valuable...and then the TV stations had to fill their afternoons with Phil and eventually Oprah.
And the cable channels...TBS hasn't shown The Beastmaster in ages, and TNT the former home of Monstervision is now the Police Procedural Channel with L & O, Southland, etc. USA has become home to quirky dramas that really belong on NBC, instead of Commander USA, Kung Fu Theatre and USA "UP" All Night.
And while I like AMC's original shows (except the reality stuff) it has cut down drastically on their movie classics.
No more Sonia Braga movies on Bravo either, and A&E doesn't do "arts"...they used to show classical concerts!
1980x1024 is "good enough", but having more won't hurt.
You do know that the 1080p in 1080p is referring to the vertical resolution, right? That 1080p is 1920x1080.
1080p refers to the vertical resolution. 1080p is 1920x1080
While it's true that those are always options, (I run XFCE myself) what I was implying that Linux isn't immune from having tablet-ized UI's.
(A couple of days ago I tried to install Linux on a 7 year old office machine which runs office apps just perfectly under XP, and my first experience on reboot was a login screen where you had to wait about half a second for each character to appear. Not good.)
Should have installed a 7 year old version of Linux.... I kid, I kid. The thing was probably trying to use accerlated X on the desktop. Which distro was it? Try an XFCE based variant/spin, that should do the trick.
And don't even get me started with the piece of shit that is windows 8, linux users are not forced to use a half-tablet OS
Gnome 3 and Unity would like a word with you.
But isn't this ... extremely, painfully trivial? Do people really graduate and not know how to do this?
I am not a programmer, the last time I did any programming was back in High School...and one PL/C class, but that's it and it was almost 30 years ago, and I was thinking the same thing.
Wouldn't a FizzBuzz program look like something this:
For input check to see if input is a number and not letter or symbol, if true, then continue. If false, return and get a new input.
Declare subroutine "check_evenly_divisible_sub" for checking if a number has anything to the right of the decimal point, if so, then evenly_divisible_var = false. else evenly_divisible_var = true
Take input, divide by 3, send result to ."check_evenly_divisible_sub"
If evenly_divisible_var = true then set fizz_status_var = fizz, else fizz_status_var ="" (null string)
Take input, divide by 5, send result to "check_evenly_divisible_sub".
If evenly_divisible_var = true then buzz_status_var = buzz, else buzz_status_var ="" (null string)
print "fizzbuzz status for", input, "is" fizz_status_var, buzz_status_var, \n
next input;
My point is that we need LESS non-programmer work from RMS! His extreme positions are doing Free Software no favors.
you replied that the real people we should thank for GNOME are coder Miguel de Icaza and dotcom startup Eazel
Yes, they did the real work. And now the grunt work behind Gnome is done by people working for IBM and Red Hat.
He's been doing non-programmer work full-time for about twenty years now. Including launching four desktop projects and doing everything he can to make them a success
He should have done it right...the first time. And if he wants to make Free Software a success he needs to stop being so extreme!
And with GNOME he did.
The man didn't DO anything in regards to GNOME. Yes yes, the GNU project was there behind the scenes, and that was good but HE isn't the person we should be thanking directly. He doesn't even use Gnome, he lives in Emacs in the console! The man is stuck in the computing paradigms of his MIT days.
The man can also be a bit of a jerk, he'll betray his own principles...as long as the downsides don't affect him.
http://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html
refuse to have supermarket frequent buyer cards of my own because they are a form of surveillance. I am willing to pay extra for my privacy and to resist an abusive system. See nocards.org for more explanation of this issue.
However, I don't mind using someone else's card or number once in a while, to avoid the extra charge for not using a card. That doesn't track me.
When I need to call someone, I ask someone nearby to let me make a call. If I use someone else's cell phone, that doesn't give Big Brother any information about me.
And even his mode of usage fits very well with Web 1.0, so you exaggerate when you say 1970s paradigm.
Not by much. He says he lives in the console with emacs (written in 1976)..which was inspired by TECO which was written in the 60's. His computer usage is not that dis-similar to some university guy sitting in front of a VT100...or ASR33.
The problem is the rest of the world has moved past that...and Stallman hasn't..
As such, binary blobs and other proprietary code --yes, even drivers-- are kept strictly virtualized.
That sounds interesting. Problem is, Stallman would probably be opposed to even doing that at all, saying that even virtualized binary blogs were anathema to free software.
IMO they are far too trusting of hardware manufacturers.
I can't believe that Stallman uses that Chinese MIPS machine.
People around the world are walking away from proprietary computing in droves, and the ones who aren't have already internalized the zeitgeist that will eventually lead to sharp reductions in closed components
They are? So Apple and Samsung aren't selling tons of phones/tablets, business users are dumping their XP/Vista/7/8 boxes for Trisquel on MIPS, and google isn't selling lots of Chromebooks, and Sony and Microsoft haven't sold millions of PlayStation-foos and Xbox-foos?
The only people walking away from propietary computing tend to be those who were already FSF supporters...not the masses.
Of course, with the direction of modern UI/UX (e.g. chrome/firefox, Metro and iOS), I don't know if that would be much of an improvement.
Don't forget Unity and Gnome3's Gnome-shell.
I keep saying there was a reason the CDE/Win9x+ UI paradigm became so popular. I have my XFCE desktop set up so that it resembles that UI
From left to right: application menu, quick start buttons for files, reboot/restart/shutdown, quick start for terminal (mrxvt), claws-mail, firefox, second life, "taskbar":for running applications, volume control, systray, clock.
I even use the Redmond theme..always did like red close buttons.
Who is the #1 spokesperson of the FSF? Who is the Face of the FSF? Who is the guy that Slashdot posts about every position statement he makes?
RMS
He founded it, he created it. They are promoting this laptop because of HIS ideals...which were basically set in the 70's. When the people with access to computers were either programmers, or at universities.
It's a new world out there, and the FSF isn't as relevant in a world of Grandmas on facebook. You send most people to the FSF site and they'd go:
"What? They don't want me to use Flash, Facebook, binary drivers, propietary anything! How am I supposed to use a computer?"
And then the FSF says "Use this machine...but oh, it can't do what you want to do. And in fact is designed to not let you.bypass the restrictions we want there to be on non-open source software"
At least with Debian they could use the non-free repositories/restricted extras. To the Grandmas, and even to me, something like GNewSense and Trisquel restrict my choices and freedom MORE than even plain Debian or Fedora.
If the FSF doesn't want Grandmas or Me to use Skype, then they need to come up with something better that people other than ex MIT AI-Labs grad students will want to use and adopt.
GNU has more than a hundred successful software projects. Some are cornerstones of the operating system, and you're moaning because there are some GNU projects which haven't been successful. And how are your microkernel and your Flash replacement coming along? Written any good compilers or standard c libraries recently?
Oh, so if one isn't a programmer they shouldn't criticize the excessive zealotry of the FSF which is heading into silly territory with that outdated overpriced laptop.
Besides, you are FSF member #8, you are not unbiased in this matter. You used to work for the FSF and are probably ticked that I'm calling on the FSF to be more "practical". I bet you're even ticked I call it "Linux". and not GNU/Linux. Well In common English usage we often use short and snappy words for things. Car rather than automobile, plane rather than airplane. Linux instead of GNU/Linux.
If RMS want's his ideals achieved then there has to be "Free" software for those who weren't students at MIT, and the FSF simply isn't very good at getting that done. At least not without IBM or RedHat throwing money and workers at it. The behind the scenes stuff (libraries/compilers/etc) is all well and good, but they're mostly mature. But we need good Free software besides that. Maybe you live in emacs in a console, but the number of people like you are minimal. The FSF needs to focus more on Software for the Masses, not just for those who have taken programming classes.
Nope that's not me, I just think Stallman needs to drop most of the rhetoric, join the real world and make software that is useful to people whose first text editor wasn't TECO. I mean how much more "stuff" does emacs need, when GNASH is no where near the functionality of Adobe Flash.
If Stallman hates propietary closed source software so much, how about some "Free" replacements...besides the replacements for compilers/debuggers/system tools.
It's almost 2014, and while we've got LaTeX for those math geeks doing dissertations we still don't have a "Free" equivalent to "Print Shop". No, LibreOffice isn't it.
It's almost 2014, and The GIMP, while better than it was is STILL lacking...how long have we been waiting for GEGL?
It's almost 2014, and we still don't have an equivalent to Dragon Naturally Speaking.
If Stallman wants people to use Free software he's got to be able to convince the masses, not just FSF member grognards who don't use X and live in Emacs.
I use Linux (currently Fedora 20) every day, but there is no way in hell I am not using the Nvidia driver via RPMFusion because Nouveau isn't up to snuff. I have Skype installed because that's what people who aren't FSF zealots use. I don't audit every piece of javascript in my browser because I'm not some FSF zealot, I simply don't have the time/knowledge to mess with that.
FSF Zealotry is fine for Stallman since it's his job, but the FSF ideals are simply not practical for real-world modern computing. He's lost the war, it's that simple. A little bit of practical pragmatism would do the FSF good, like approving Debian...I mean my god, Debian's not approved by the FSF because they allow you to install/link to non-free software.
I am aware of Icaza and Microsoft technologies, and understand the ire, but that doesn't mean that Stallman's Ideals are "Practical", or that he or the FSF doesn't need to learn how people other than former MIT grad students use computers and design good free software for THEM.
Sure, I have no love for Icaza, but I think Stallman needs a dose of computer reality.
GNOME was launched by FSF
GNOME is a GNU project....now. But that doesn't mean they created it other than promoting it.
RMS spent years promoting it and getting people to work on it. He still does.
Why Yes, GNU has plenty of projects that RMS promotes....how is that Flash replacement thing coming along.....
Promotion doesn't get shit done. Take a look at Gnome and the Gnome foundation that runs it... take a look who founded the Gnome Foundation:
It was founded on 15 August 2000 by Compaq, Eazel, Helix Code, IBM, Red Hat, Sun Microsystems and VA Linux Systems.
RMS can do all the advocacy and promotion and Fantasyland Idealism he wants when the grunt work of actually finishing and releasing usable software is done by employees of for-profit companies or universities.
It's easy to be a FSF idealist when you squat at an office that MIT lets you use....yes I know he has an actual place now.
The toolkit is a GNU project, born from another GNU project.
It is...now...but wasn't when it was created at UCB.
You seem to be trying to make GNU disappear by arguing that nothing matters but lines of code
Lines of code matter, what use is software that isn't finished/usable. How are HURD and GNASH coming along? The whole reason we have Linux is because GNU and the FSF are bunch of neckbeards living in a 70's world of computer interaction that are more about their Ideals, taking extreme positions and being blowhards when people don't follow their positions, than actually getting shit done.
I would love to have an open Flash replacement but 10 YEARS after I first heard of GNASH it still isn't ready for prime-time.
Then KDE was launched, with the then-proprietary QT toolkit. The problem was so urgent that FSF launched two projects to fix it, GNOME and Harmony. Harmony was a project to replace the QT toolkit, but it wasn't a success.
Gnome wasn't started by the FSF itself, but by Miguel de Icaza While it has a recursive name referencing GNU it' isn't one of their projects. It uses the GTK tookit, which was created by a university, University of California at Berkeley, not the FSF. Besides, the Nautilus file manager was developed by a for-profit company called Eazel...look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eazel
Another for profit company founded by Icaza, Helix/Ximian also did much work on GNOME
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ximian
GNOME was a success. So much of a success that it was, IMO, what lead to QT being freed. So we've FSF to thank for directly making GNOME, and indirectly for licence changes in QT.
That must be why in 2009, RMS called Miguel de Icaza a "Traitor to the Free Software Community"
But as usual, people try to avoid crediting FSF, so a lot of people don't know this.
Yes, the FSF and GNU project deserves some credit, for creating the tools, but beyond that...just beause those tools are used to create other things, doesn't mean we should kowtow to Stallman for every thing made using those tools.
He probably turns his connection on or off as needed.
E-mailed web pages...On.
Having to use a graphical browser...turn off the network connection first.
But he uses some Chinese MIPS machine...how does he know they haven't stuck in some hardware spychip....unless he has ANOTHER machine packet sniffing/monitoring his network connection between his Lemote machine and the network.
In 1995 they said we'd never have a decent GUI desktop. In 1997, they said we'd never have a free web browser. Then they said we'd never have a free office suite.
And none of those things were done by the FSF itself. Stallman himself doesn't use those things. If we were waiting on the FSF to have a graphical web browser we still wouldn't have one. They'd be telling us to use some kind of lisp addon within emacs to show images in a separate emacs buffer after having another machine download the images separately and then sending them to our machine in an e-mail.
In part they are able to get away with living in Fantasyland because they still use computers the same way they did when they were students at MIT back in the 70's, not like the way most everyone else uses computers.
For goodness sake, RMS doesn't actually use a web browser like "normal people do:
http://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
I spend most of my time editing in Emacs. I read and send mail with Emacs using M-x rmail and C-x m. I have no experience with any other email client programs. In principle I would be glad to know about other free email clients, but learning about them is not a priority for me and I don't have time.
There's nothing wrong with using Emacs... but the vast majority of computer users don't use a text editor to read their e-mail. If one wants to make a free operating system that is of use to people who don't have neckbeards...then perhaps one should learn about Non-Emacs reading of E-mail. It's not that hard to learn a E-mail client...it's not like learning lisp.
I edit the pages on this site with Emacs also, although volunteer helpers install the political notes and urgent notes. I have no experience with other ways of maintaining web sites. In principle I would be glad to know about other ways, but learning about them is not a priority for me and I don't have time.
Not even Seamonkey's composer.
I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git://git.gnu.org/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (but I make sure I have no net connection, so that it won't fetch anything else).
I sometimes use Google's search engine, and I sometimes use DuckDuckGo. When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course.
That more than anything else shows the disconnnect in how a Free Software most fervent promoters use computers compared to everyone else. No wonder they seem so "Fantasyland"
I think it would serve RMS or any other hardcore FSFer to actually watch how people who are NOT FSF members actually use computers and then design a free operating system for them...not just bearded guys still using 1970's paradigms who know nothing about modern computer use.