Because it makes it easy to keep track of wether you're vulnerable or not.
Especially it makes easy to track for everyone who send HEAD request to your server, because Apache dutifully report its version in the Server: header with default settings.
What if they want something not included in debian?
Then they have to provide reasons for sysadmin to package and install it.
I use Fedora - similar to Debian in that it has masses of bundled software...
I think that Fedora about order of magnitude smaller.
When you ask the garage to change your brakes you rely on their honesty and competence
It is much easier to rely on competence of mechanican, to do his job properly, than to rely on honesty of somebody who have access to your private secrets. It looks more like your lawer or you psychoanalyst than your mechaniacan. But people hire attorneys and come to psychoanalysts.
The most common reason for a top of the line system is gamaing - that's something that cannot be done on a remote server
Than why networking games such as Ultima Online, Counter Strike and such are so popular? If you are using multiuser server, you can play with live opponents. It compensates poorer graphics. And really, I don't think that host-terminal setup is showstopper for good graphics. OpenGL is networked from the births. And fifteen years ago there already were X terminals with hadware MPEG decoders.
I'm also not sure how you stop clueless lusers doing stuff like installing spyware - either you prevent them from installing anything (which would make it terribly restrictive)
I don't think it is too restrictive. Some years ago I've written security policy for Linux server in our company. It reads "If user wants a program which is included in Debian (excluding "games" section, it is office server after all), and system administrator doesn't like the idea, it is admin's responsibility to provide reasons why thing shouldn't be available for user.
It was more than enough for our users.
Debian includes more software than user can learn in his whole live, and if thing is not included, it probably is not worth that.
You can even allow clueless users to do apt-get install via sudo (providing them sources.list which excludes some daemons and other system-wide stuff, which could conflict with your carefully set up system).
A computer is more like a car - it needs maintaining by someone who knows what they're doing.
Agree wholehearthedly. But problem with computers is that they work with data, when cars work with space. Once you let smart guy in, you depend on his honesty with all your sensitive data. It is hard to understand for casual user. It is much more understanable that data on public server depends on honesty of server support team. So, it is psychologically easier to measure risks.
It is quite easy to produce computer under $100 Just don't put 1GHz processor there - put 100Mhz one, don't put 1GiB of RAM, put 64Mb and so on.
Unfortunately, current Microsoft products wouldn't run on such hardware with reasonable speed. OO.o, KDE and GNOME wouldn't run at all. But something like old good GeoWORKS/NewDeal or Framework IV would run and justify needs of most users.
This solution exists for twenty years. It is called X terminal.
As for your questions
What if it's compromised
There was posted news on slashdot many times, that Windows system on broadband connection is going to be compromised in 20 minutes without qualified sysadmin supervising.
System offering public service would be supervised by team of qualified admins, so it is much less likely to be compromised.
What if it crashes
Do you have backup device capable of backing up your hard drive? Do you use it daily? What would you do if your system crashes? Spend a day reinstalling everything and loose data? If public server crashes, it is likely to be fixed by its admins very soon, and your data restored from backups.
It is much more probably that your connection to this server would crash. And deprive you from working with entirely functional server. It is a drawback of OS-as-service solution.
And paying for something that's free now?
Are you sure it is free now? I'm running couple of X terminals home. One of them is more than 10 years old and never need hardware upgrade. But if I count all the money I spent upgrading my home computer last 10 years, it would probably cost more than $50/month. And countless hours administering the system. How much your work-hour cost?
This is why DVD zones were invented. To allow recording companies to have different price policies in different parts of world. But this doesn't work either.
It is end-user who have to have total control after his desktop.
So, approach when everything moved to client-side library gives more control to application authors and less to user. In old times where there is Xaw and Motif and nothing more, I could completely restyle my desktop using central (per display) resource database.
Now with lot of Gtk and Qt programs out there, I cannot tune my desktop as I like.
In Ancient Greece all wars were stopped for the duration of Olympic Games. If we about to upheld true spirit of Olympic games we ought to stop all business and politics (as these are main things which make people angry with each other nowadays) for the duration of Games and just enjoy this sporting event.
Unfortunately this is not happening. Since 1980 and 1984 when Games was used as cold war weapon, no spirit of fair sport exist in Olympics.
I think that athletes shoud refuse to participate on such conditions. They ought to demonstrate that they are those who matter, not silly buerocrates in Olympic Committee.
I've always wanted a small fighter chopper which would sit on my shoulder and every time a mosquitto gets to close to me would launch and shoot damned best down.
Seems that technology moves in right direction. We only need a machine gun lighter than 5g (0.5mm would be enough even for biggesth horse-fly or hornet, and some clever design for shoulder mounted helicopter pad, which would allow thing to recharge before next mosquitto would attack me.
Of course we would also need a clever control program. It seems that processor of my new java-enabled cell phone is powerful enough to control the beast.
Some may argue that the USSR, etc., wasn't "real Communism" but then the question remains: why wasn't it?
Because there was no copy command. It is main reason. If you want somebody to share food with others, you have take food away from him (and he probably has other ideas how to use this food). That is why USSR need oppressive goverment - to forcebly take goods away from manufacters and distribute them.
If you want to share some piece of software, there is no need to deprive you from any use of this software. You can even continue to sell it for those who don't like to download it for free for some reason. Not mention that you can still use this software.
There is old saying If I have an apple and you have an apple, and we exchange them, each of us have one apple. If I have an idea and you have an idea, and we exchange them, each of us now have two ideas.
Software is an idea, not a goods item.
So if you give away some food, you've produced, you clearly in loss. If you give away some software you've developed for your own use, you can benefit from it - somebody may point you to a bug before it hits you, or came up with idea of improvement which never occur to you.
Remember, people do not eat software, do not wear it etc. They use it as tool to do other things. And if you have some tool you benefit from its use, no matter how many other people use same tool.
People should have terminals on their desktops. And these terminals shouldn't produce no unexpected noice (such as fans, disks etc) but sounds which are willingly produced by programs user willingly run. It is what sound servers are for - serve sounds for users from applications which run on some rack-mounted thing mile away.
Host rooms typically quite a noisy place due to high performance cooling systems and 10000rpm disks.
But what host room has to do with user desktop projects like Gnome and GoneME? Nothing except that some of these hosts may run same OS which can also be used for running end-user apps.
I can imagine some of those hosts running end-user apps to serve bunch of X-terminals around. But person who manages such hosts would comprehand neccessity of sound server, so it is scarcely your case.
BTW, I'm not aware of any hardware X-terminal which is able to run esound. But there is a bunch of them which understands NAS protocol.
If person begin to talk about "average user", there is one of two choices left:
He is marketing-type liar and FUD spreader, and should be beaten out.
He is dumb user himself, and should be either ignored or taught how to file proper bug reports and feature requests.
Problem is that OSS is kind of economy, and never was based on altruism. Person either can contribute to OSS development someway, or cannot.
If person cannot contribute, than ones voice cost nothing. He can hire a programmer who can contribute and we would talk with this programmer, accepting or rejecting his contributions. There are other models such as sponsorship, which allow nontechie-types to contribute.
But really free software as free speech are for those who speak on programming languages.
If we don't ask you to pay for our software, it doesn't mean that we are altruists and want to help you do your job for nothing. We are out there to do our job with maximal efficiency. Free exchange of programs both as tools and as source code helps us solve our needs.
If somebody writes tool I can use, and releases it as free software, he might expect that it would save me some time, which I could spend improving my tool, which helps him do his job.
If there are thousand other people who use this software and contribute nothing, they may as well cease to exists. They just do not count, becouse they don't make life of free software author easier. It is other hackers who do count.
Of course, if non-techie user can give some good bug reports which help to hunt problem down, or provide some enhancement ideas, may be not expressed in form of code, but nice enough to catch some developer's eye, he must be counted as useful member of community.
There can be some exceptions from this rule - for instance hacker might have a girlfriend whom he want to help do her job, writing useful tools for her. But see this as exception.
*nix was and still is ONLY true user-friendly system on the marked. It is becouse it doesn't require user to interact with applications. If user don't want to, he can use yes to provide input or grep to minimize amount of output.
It is a rule completely forgotten in newer OSes - If you don't like to read output of this program, let other program do it
If that guy has found difficult to "look under the hood", than he cannot understand other meaning of "free" - ability to fix, to improve etc. He is already deprived of this ability.
What bothers me most in recent trends of OSS software is that software tends to grow bloated and overcomplicated.
In the days where Stallman started project GNU, toolbox model worked well. One can find that 90% of his problem can be solved by existing tools and concentrate on remaining 10%, which should be easy enough.
Now we want so called usability and consistent interfaces and thus write GUI apps on languages as low level as C!!. Even worse, we have adopted object-oriented model (but non in form of SmallTalk - in form of C++) from commertial programmers, and it makes our software even more uncomprehandable.
What we really need is ability to break such big projects as OpenOffice or Gimp into small pieces to be developed separately.
To be really free software should be understandable for average programmers.
Only person who made step in right direction was John Ouserhout, but even his creation looks a bit too complicated to allow average user make GUI which he want with same easy as terminal users 30 years ago were able to build new command line programs with original Bourne shell.
or have a US-based revolution that redefines America as a self-sustaining entity - reliance on our own farmers, manufacturing industry, service sectors, etc. In this mode, we refuse to give up the quality of life we have built for ourselves, and start requiring other countries to come to our level playing field if they wish to participate.
You cannot maintain your current standards of life being a self-sustained entity.
America have such standard just because you robbed third world buying their resource and unskilled labor cheaply an selling hi-tech products at high cost.
Now they are trying to get even with you and you begin to cry.
We, in Soviet Union tried to run self-sustained economy and failed even to support military paritet with USA, not mention life standards (which are much more costly)
There is no way to run less-than-global self-sustained economy in today's world
Oh, no! How can I live without my beloved xpat2?!!
Taking this seriously, it is you who mentioned word "server", not I. Personally I think that "server" and "client" applied to computer it is something from evil marketing model of Microsoft and Novell. If we are talking about Linux there is no servers and clients, there are just hosts.
Slashdot Mirror
Because it makes it easy to keep track of wether you're vulnerable or not.
Especially it makes easy to track for everyone who send HEAD request to your server, because Apache dutifully report its version in the Server: header with default settings.
What if they want something not included in debian?
Then they have to provide reasons for sysadmin to package and install it.
I use Fedora - similar to Debian in that it has masses of bundled software...
I think that Fedora about order of magnitude smaller.
When you ask the garage to change your brakes you rely on their honesty and competence
It is much easier to rely on competence of mechanican, to do his job properly, than to rely on honesty of somebody who have access to your private secrets. It looks more like your lawer or you psychoanalyst than your mechaniacan. But people hire attorneys and come to psychoanalysts.
The most common reason for a top of the line system is gamaing - that's something that cannot be done on a remote server
Than why networking games such as Ultima Online,
Counter Strike and such are so popular? If you are using multiuser server, you can play with live opponents. It compensates poorer graphics. And really, I don't think that host-terminal setup is showstopper for good graphics. OpenGL is networked from the births. And fifteen years ago there already were X terminals with hadware MPEG decoders.
I'm also not sure how you stop clueless lusers doing stuff like installing spyware - either you prevent them from installing anything (which would make it terribly restrictive)
I don't think it is too restrictive. Some years ago I've written security policy for Linux server in our company. It reads "If user wants a program which is included in Debian (excluding "games" section, it is office server after all), and system administrator doesn't like the idea, it is admin's responsibility to provide reasons why thing shouldn't be available for user.
It was more than enough for our users.
Debian includes more software than user can learn in his whole live, and if thing is not included, it probably is not worth that.
You can even allow clueless users to do apt-get install via sudo (providing them sources.list which excludes some daemons and other system-wide stuff, which could conflict with your carefully set up system).
A computer is more like a car - it needs maintaining by someone who knows what they're doing.
Agree wholehearthedly. But problem with computers is that they work with data, when cars work with space. Once you let smart guy in, you depend on his honesty with all your sensitive data. It is hard to understand for casual user. It is much more understanable that data on public server depends on honesty of server support team. So, it is psychologically easier to measure risks.
Never by phone without IRDA or Bluetooth. IRDA and BLUETOOTH have standards of object exchange (OBJEX) while cables don't.
I never have problems transfering pictures from my phone (which, of course isn't Motorola) using ircp.
It is quite easy to produce computer under $100
Just don't put 1GHz processor there - put 100Mhz one, don't put 1GiB of RAM, put 64Mb and so on.
Unfortunately, current Microsoft products wouldn't run on such hardware with reasonable speed. OO.o, KDE and GNOME wouldn't run at all. But something like old good GeoWORKS/NewDeal or Framework IV would run and justify needs of most users.
May be port PalmOS to desktops?
programmers out on the street with signs that say "Will program for food!".
I wouldn't buy this. Results of their programming doesn't justify even food.
This solution exists for twenty years. It is called X terminal.
As for your questions
What if it's compromised
There was posted news on slashdot many times, that Windows system on broadband connection is going to be compromised in 20 minutes without qualified sysadmin supervising.
System offering public service would be supervised by team of qualified admins, so it is much less likely to be compromised.
What if it crashes
Do you have backup device capable of backing up your hard drive? Do you use it daily? What would you do if your system crashes? Spend a day reinstalling everything and loose data?
If public server crashes, it is likely to be fixed by its admins very soon, and your data restored from backups.
It is much more probably that your connection to this server would crash. And deprive you from working with entirely functional server. It is a drawback of OS-as-service solution.
And paying for something that's free now?
Are you sure it is free now? I'm running couple of X terminals home. One of them is more than 10 years old and never need hardware upgrade. But if I count all the money I spent upgrading my home computer last 10 years, it would probably cost more than $50/month. And countless hours administering the system. How much your work-hour cost?
This is why DVD zones were invented. To allow recording companies to have different price policies in different parts of world. But this doesn't work either.
It's a time to invent new slashdot joke
"In the proprietary software world vendor blames you for software faults"
"In the proprietary software world bug fixes you"
and so on
And especially, prohibit bots, employed by RIAAand MPAA
It is end-user who have to have total control after his desktop.
So, approach when everything moved to client-side library gives more control to application authors and less to user. In old times where there is Xaw and Motif and nothing more, I could completely restyle my desktop using central (per display) resource database.
Now with lot of Gtk and Qt programs out there, I cannot tune my desktop as I like.
Unfortunately this is not happening. Since 1980 and 1984 when Games was used as cold war weapon, no spirit of fair sport exist in Olympics.
I think that athletes shoud refuse to participate on such conditions.
They ought to demonstrate that they are those who matter, not silly buerocrates in Olympic Committee.
So you don't want a windowing system that is flexible, because people might want to take advantage of that flexibility?
It depends on what people take advantage of flexibility - users or application authors.
I've always wanted a small fighter chopper which would sit on my shoulder and every time a mosquitto gets to close to me would launch and shoot damned best down.
Seems that technology moves in right direction. We only need a machine gun lighter than 5g (0.5mm would be enough even for biggesth horse-fly or hornet, and some clever design for shoulder mounted helicopter pad, which would allow thing to recharge before next mosquitto would attack me.
Of course we would also need a clever control program. It seems that processor of my new java-enabled cell phone is powerful enough to control the beast.
Some may argue that the USSR, etc., wasn't "real Communism" but then the question remains: why wasn't it?
Because there was no copy command. It is main reason. If you want somebody to share food with others, you have take food away from him (and he probably has other ideas how to use this food). That is why USSR need oppressive goverment - to forcebly take goods away from manufacters and distribute them.
If you want to share some piece of software, there is no need to deprive you from any use of this software. You can even continue to sell it for those who don't like to download it for free for some reason. Not mention that you can still use this software.
There is old saying If I have an apple and you have an apple, and we exchange them, each of us have one apple. If I have an idea and you have an idea, and we exchange them, each of us now have two ideas.
Software is an idea, not a goods item.
So if you give away some food, you've produced, you clearly in loss. If you give away some software you've developed for your own use, you can benefit from it - somebody may point you to a bug before it hits you, or came up with idea of improvement which never occur to you.
Remember, people do not eat software, do not wear it etc. They use it as tool to do other things. And if you have some tool you benefit from its use, no matter how many other people use same tool.
Enabling a firewall by default in Windows is the greatest thing Redmond has ever done
Only problem with it - they made it nine years later than ought to.
Host rooms typically quite a noisy place due to high performance cooling systems and 10000rpm disks.
But what host room has to do with user desktop projects like Gnome and GoneME? Nothing except that some of these hosts may run same OS which can also be used for running end-user apps.
I can imagine some of those hosts running end-user apps to serve bunch of X-terminals around. But person who manages such hosts would comprehand neccessity of sound server, so it is scarcely your case.
BTW, I'm not aware of any hardware X-terminal which is able to run esound. But there is a bunch of them which understands NAS protocol.
Problem is that OSS is kind of economy, and never was based on altruism. Person either can contribute to OSS development someway, or cannot.
If person cannot contribute, than ones voice cost nothing. He can hire a programmer who can contribute and we would talk with this programmer, accepting or rejecting his contributions. There are other models such as sponsorship, which allow nontechie-types to contribute.
But really free software as free speech are for those who speak on programming languages.
If we don't ask you to pay for our software, it doesn't mean that we are altruists and want to help you do your job for nothing. We are out there to do our job with maximal efficiency. Free exchange of programs both as tools and as source code helps us solve our needs.
If somebody writes tool I can use, and releases it as free software, he might expect that it would save me some time, which I could spend improving my tool, which helps him do his job.
If there are thousand other people who use this software and contribute nothing, they may as well cease to exists. They just do not count, becouse they don't make life of free software author easier. It is other hackers who do count.
Of course, if non-techie user can give some good bug reports which help to hunt problem down, or provide some enhancement ideas, may be not expressed in form of code, but nice enough to catch some developer's eye, he must be counted as useful member of community.
There can be some exceptions from this rule - for instance hacker might have a girlfriend whom he want to help do her job, writing useful tools for her. But see this as exception.
And thing that bites me worst is that GIMP objects, such as drawables and images are not garbage collected when created in SIOD scripts.
COBOL, its reputation is warranted. It is actually designed for clueless suits and it will damage you, both mentally and physically.
Cobol fingers? But we are in XXI centure and do not need to type all this clueless staff in - we have text editor or two which do completion for us.
It is a rule completely forgotten in newer OSes -
If you don't like to read output of this program, let other program do it
What bothers me most in recent trends of OSS software is that software tends to grow bloated and overcomplicated.
In the days where Stallman started project GNU, toolbox model worked well. One can find that 90% of his problem can be solved by existing tools and concentrate on remaining 10%, which should be easy enough.
Now we want so called usability and consistent interfaces and thus write GUI apps on languages as low level as C!!. Even worse, we have adopted object-oriented model (but non in form of SmallTalk - in form of C++) from commertial programmers, and it makes our software even more uncomprehandable.
What we really need is ability to break such big projects as OpenOffice or Gimp into small pieces to be developed separately.
To be really free software should be understandable for average programmers.
Only person who made step in right direction was John Ouserhout, but even his creation looks a bit too complicated to allow average user make GUI which he want with same easy as terminal users 30 years ago were able to build new command line programs with original Bourne shell.
or have a US-based revolution that redefines America as a self-sustaining entity - reliance on our own farmers, manufacturing industry, service sectors, etc. In this mode, we refuse to give up the quality of life we have built for ourselves, and start requiring other countries to come to our level playing field if they wish to participate.
You cannot maintain your current standards of life being a self-sustained entity.
America have such standard just because you robbed third world buying their resource and unskilled labor cheaply an selling hi-tech products at high cost.
Now they are trying to get even with you and you begin to cry.
We, in Soviet Union tried to run self-sustained economy and failed even to support military paritet with USA, not mention life standards (which are much more costly)
There is no way to run less-than-global self-sustained economy in today's world
Just two years ago I wrote
about future of African outsource market. It was modded funny...
Taking this seriously, it is you who mentioned word
"server", not I. Personally I think that "server" and "client" applied to computer it is something from evil marketing model of Microsoft and Novell.
If we are talking about Linux there is no servers and clients, there are just hosts.