Bullshit, you obviously have never worked in a service provider network where you are protecting application DMZs for a couple score applications that can inter-work between each other and other pieces of your network. GUIs increase productivity, if we were managing all our firewall policies via command line we would need at least 30 more people on our staff. Even for me who can get upwards of 80 words per minute on a good day. It's a damn sight quicker to drag TCP-443 into a policy line than to log into a box, define TCP-443 with a name in syntax, then find the policy line via a crazy show command, and finally add that object to the policy line.
Get real. GUIs despite being "lame" are useful for speeding up common tasks.
-K
A company called Exaprotect, which acquired a company called Solsoft, made a pretty neat tool that visualized the network and you could put enforcement points onto a map based on topology and apply rules. My company uses the tool for some things in our network. It's an amazing tool once you get it up and running, but there is a level of effort and understanding of how the tool works that is involved. Sadly Exaprotect is making the tool End of Life because they didn't see enough demand/profit from it.
The killer feature of it was that once you got a policy looking like you wanted, and you needed to add a subnet or host. You'd simply manipulate the object at that point in the topology then click on all the enforcement points involved (easy to do because it could track them down via the policy layout) and then click "Update Policy Enforcement Point". If anyone knows of a good replacement please let me know, we're looking for one as Exaprotect is killing this product.
-K
Latency, Throughput and NO NO NO NO.
Are you guys on crack?
Latency is network based. Host to host. It takes 45ms for my packet to get from my computer to your computer.
Throughput is network based. Host to host. I can achieve from my computer to your computer 1000 kilobits per second in throughput.
Server level "latency" is some other crap, I'm sorry but us networkers REFUSE to accept your junky server problems as either latency or throughput, find new words server monkeys! Make em up! Here are some suggestions, processor bound response time, PBRT (latency for server geeks), processor bound data transfer PBDT (throughput for server geeks).
Damn it server monkeys, get off my network! And stop blaming it for your latency and throughput whines! *Shakes cane*
JB
aaaah, Slashdot... where else would the top post diverge into a discussion of the cost/benefit of hardcover vs. paperback, instead of what's actually contained between said covers. How could you discount the aforementioned
bedtime reading sessions It almost sounds sexual....:)
Adam Smith stated that specialization increases productivity. IMO this has been proved true.
Thusly, a laborer who builds a tool then uses it is less productive than a laborer that uses a premanufactured tool. This is due to the time it takes the laborer to manufacture and use the tool versus just learning to use the tool and producing labor. For this argument (computer use) it holds true. There are exceptions in various fields as noted by Adam Smith. There are also additional considerations involved in the laborer switching tasks reducing productivity.
There is a corollary here with the division of labor where, in this case, a developer/system administrator may be apt to understand the OS and applications; the user of said OS and applications has no interest outside of using them as a tool to accomplish his labor and receive his pay.
Thusly the person who is "ignorant" is probably more focused on using the tool than building it.
In the case of Linux/UNIX there is not a sufficiently wide "standardized tool" (read install/look) for multiple laborers to easily learn the functions of common labor (outside of an employer trained and maintained environment) for it to become a widespread tool amongst the average laboring public in learning this tool.
Thus the "ignorant" people are in fact working in their own interest in maximizing the usefulness and rewards of their time here on Earth.
I personally find looking at artifacts that were created by great minds and craftsmen of ages past as an affirmation of humanity.
It makes me feel like we might actually be going somewhere - if these peices of history (and humanity) mean nothing - all the things we do in this life mean nothing.
They are a testament to the human mind, craftsmanship, or faith (generally one of those three). It makes me feel better about the fact that I will die one day, because hopefully something of the age I lived in will be left. And just maybe some wierd guy like me will look at some artifact from this time and feel connected to the past, and perhaps, some measure of responsibiliy for ensuring a future for our species.
PhD's require a college education.
Janitors do not.
I'm talking about public basic education schools here, not colleges.
I think a Janitor/"Garbage man" with a high school education that can fuction well in society, perhaps manage their own finances and vote semi-effectively wouldn't be so bad....
The only real solution to our American education system is to figure the average amount nationwide that all schools have for their budget.
Double that number and then increase all corporate american taxes to get an amount of money equal that doubled number. (Corporations benefit from well educated workers, so should be willing to pay to get them)
Then distribute this amount of money evenly to all schools nationwide based upon the number of students that were enlisted in the previous year. Beyond that the federal government should have no say other than that money should be spent by the school district it was allocated to ONLY. Let the states manage their educational systems. Increase this number and the tax amount by the previous year's inflation numbers published by the federal reserve and you have a well funded local educational system.
This has the dual effect of increasing nearly all school's budgets (and rich parents can still donate money in rich areas if they want an elite school) and at the same time reducing the dependence on local property values for school income (and theoretically reduce local taxes) This is Democratization of American Education.
And to the critics that say doubling the amount spent on average in American public schools - public education is the ONE thing that this nation can throw money "away" on or "spend money frivilously on".
At least in the telecom world there is a lot of that "behind the curtain" sneakiness that needs a lot of horsepower to make the stuff customers see work.
Just as an FYI, the digital world isn't all web servers talking to clients.
On the back-end B2B side there are seems to be more and more XML+HTTPS over private network links between a service provider (any service, think PayPal + X service for instance) and any number of external vendors. External vendors are doing anything from billing, to content delivery, to simply providing user tracking (evil, I know). The user tracking stuff is particularly intensive if you are doing network level tracking (X users going to Y IP that resolves to Z domain) that's a lot of packets to parse:)
Further thought and random comment reading and I think: Intel Inside.
What does that last one mean, that last one means, that I'm wondering if Apple isn't making a market move.
We have OSX based on FreeBSD. FreeBSD loves Intel hardware. Intel hardware has a natural market share over AMD/IBM and greater brand recognition.
Now think about this random idea. An Apple computer with a tastilly designed little "Intel Inside" sticker pasted on it and Apple becomes like Microsoft a "software is the future" company.
I think the idea of a sexy looking Apple PC with that "Intel Inside" logo would sell. To the average PC purchaser take the following equation:
Bigger numbers are better(Intel clock speed) + Intel is a good think (market share) + Sexy looking hardware (Apple designs well) + Sexy looking OS (Apple designs well) = +++ Which really means, "I want to buy it Mr. Salesman."
This of course is minus the technical issues, which I don't think are insurmountable with good developers and some help from Intel hardware-wise.
Can you do plumbing, drywall, framing, roofing, siding, flooring, electical wiring, etc????
I'm sure you could do it with some training, but wait, who is going to train you? Joe Six Pack after you've "0wnz0r3d" his PC?
Not bloody likely.
The simple fact of the matter is that the human race an indeed technology owes it's position to specialization of skills. If you don't care about Joe Sixpack's PC experience then you are an elitist bastard.
It takes all kinds to make the world go round as they say and it is our job as the nerds/geeks/pointy head/whatever to make our part move you short sighted bastard.
** This post made while mostly drunk, 8 beers... Call me Joe 8 Pack, you asshat
Because it's still a population density issue. In Japan it's cost-effective to deply mini-cels in buildings to cover that building. There is a higher population density that reduces network cost while still maintaining a higher deployment rate to the public. Thereby you can take a small amount of capital and deploy mini-cells to cover buildings or areas that have poor coverage while still maintaining a cost effective full-sized-cell network.
I would love to be a carrier in Japan. Technologically savvy public, readily adopts new technologies, not afraid of gadgets and a land-mass that makes network deployment extremely cost effective.
Firstly if there was a regulation put in place that required ISP's to default block initial ports for all of their customers there had better be some funding that comes along with that regulation because quite simply on even a smaller ISP's network (say 10 cities in the US) the manpower cost to implement this kind of filtering is not cheap.
Secondly ISP's have enough problems making money and want to leverage things like this as services to increase their revenues.
If you think that ISP's should by default block certain ports and provide protection for end-users then you may as well give all the networks services of the nation to AOL Time Warner.
Let us also not forget that M$ doesn't come out of this scott free either with their careless enabling of services by default as well as poor coding. (I blame the former more than the latter)
Thanks,
-k
Depending on what exactly you are doing you may consider using multicast and joining the "Mbone". I don't know if it would suit your needs or not, but it wouldn't hurt you to research it and see if it applies.
Slashdot Mirror
Bullshit, you obviously have never worked in a service provider network where you are protecting application DMZs for a couple score applications that can inter-work between each other and other pieces of your network. GUIs increase productivity, if we were managing all our firewall policies via command line we would need at least 30 more people on our staff. Even for me who can get upwards of 80 words per minute on a good day. It's a damn sight quicker to drag TCP-443 into a policy line than to log into a box, define TCP-443 with a name in syntax, then find the policy line via a crazy show command, and finally add that object to the policy line. Get real. GUIs despite being "lame" are useful for speeding up common tasks. -K
A company called Exaprotect, which acquired a company called Solsoft, made a pretty neat tool that visualized the network and you could put enforcement points onto a map based on topology and apply rules. My company uses the tool for some things in our network. It's an amazing tool once you get it up and running, but there is a level of effort and understanding of how the tool works that is involved. Sadly Exaprotect is making the tool End of Life because they didn't see enough demand/profit from it. The killer feature of it was that once you got a policy looking like you wanted, and you needed to add a subnet or host. You'd simply manipulate the object at that point in the topology then click on all the enforcement points involved (easy to do because it could track them down via the policy layout) and then click "Update Policy Enforcement Point". If anyone knows of a good replacement please let me know, we're looking for one as Exaprotect is killing this product. -K
Latency, Throughput and NO NO NO NO. Are you guys on crack? Latency is network based. Host to host. It takes 45ms for my packet to get from my computer to your computer. Throughput is network based. Host to host. I can achieve from my computer to your computer 1000 kilobits per second in throughput. Server level "latency" is some other crap, I'm sorry but us networkers REFUSE to accept your junky server problems as either latency or throughput, find new words server monkeys! Make em up! Here are some suggestions, processor bound response time, PBRT (latency for server geeks), processor bound data transfer PBDT (throughput for server geeks). Damn it server monkeys, get off my network! And stop blaming it for your latency and throughput whines! *Shakes cane* JB
It's not that one. It was stolen in 2000 and returned.
9 .stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/648064
Adam Smith stated that specialization increases productivity. IMO this has been proved true.
Thusly, a laborer who builds a tool then uses it is less productive than a laborer that uses a premanufactured tool. This is due to the time it takes the laborer to manufacture and use the tool versus just learning to use the tool and producing labor. For this argument (computer use) it holds true. There are exceptions in various fields as noted by Adam Smith. There are also additional considerations involved in the laborer switching tasks reducing productivity.
There is a corollary here with the division of labor where, in this case, a developer/system administrator may be apt to understand the OS and applications; the user of said OS and applications has no interest outside of using them as a tool to accomplish his labor and receive his pay.
Thusly the person who is "ignorant" is probably more focused on using the tool than building it.
In the case of Linux/UNIX there is not a sufficiently wide "standardized tool" (read install/look) for multiple laborers to easily learn the functions of common labor (outside of an employer trained and maintained environment) for it to become a widespread tool amongst the average laboring public in learning this tool.
Thus the "ignorant" people are in fact working in their own interest in maximizing the usefulness and rewards of their time here on Earth.
This is why Linux is still not on my desktop.
-K (network monkey, not coder/SA monkey)
We already do that, it's called a board of directors.
I personally find looking at artifacts that were created by great minds and craftsmen of ages past as an affirmation of humanity.
It makes me feel like we might actually be going somewhere - if these peices of history (and humanity) mean nothing - all the things we do in this life mean nothing.
They are a testament to the human mind, craftsmanship, or faith (generally one of those three). It makes me feel better about the fact that I will die one day, because hopefully something of the age I lived in will be left. And just maybe some wierd guy like me will look at some artifact from this time and feel connected to the past, and perhaps, some measure of responsibiliy for ensuring a future for our species.
-John
These things should be in a museum and on display for all people to see.
All of the above are some of the foundations of the modern world.
They are some of the building blocks for the technological revolution of the 20th century.
It would be a shame for these to be in some private collection out of view of the world.
-John
PhD's require a college education. Janitors do not. I'm talking about public basic education schools here, not colleges. I think a Janitor/"Garbage man" with a high school education that can fuction well in society, perhaps manage their own finances and vote semi-effectively wouldn't be so bad....
The only real solution to our American education system is to figure the average amount nationwide that all schools have for their budget.
Double that number and then increase all corporate american taxes to get an amount of money equal that doubled number. (Corporations benefit from well educated workers, so should be willing to pay to get them)
Then distribute this amount of money evenly to all schools nationwide based upon the number of students that were enlisted in the previous year. Beyond that the federal government should have no say other than that money should be spent by the school district it was allocated to ONLY. Let the states manage their educational systems. Increase this number and the tax amount by the previous year's inflation numbers published by the federal reserve and you have a well funded local educational system.
This has the dual effect of increasing nearly all school's budgets (and rich parents can still donate money in rich areas if they want an elite school) and at the same time reducing the dependence on local property values for school income (and theoretically reduce local taxes) This is Democratization of American Education.
And to the critics that say doubling the amount spent on average in American public schools - public education is the ONE thing that this nation can throw money "away" on or "spend money frivilously on".
John B
Apparently you've never dealth with small town politics :)
Mark my words:
One day the dust mites will rise up and overthrow us while we are all asleep.
-K
At least in the telecom world there is a lot of that "behind the curtain" sneakiness that needs a lot of horsepower to make the stuff customers see work.
Just as an FYI, the digital world isn't all web servers talking to clients.
On the back-end B2B side there are seems to be more and more XML+HTTPS over private network links between a service provider (any service, think PayPal + X service for instance) and any number of external vendors. External vendors are doing anything from billing, to content delivery, to simply providing user tracking (evil, I know). The user tracking stuff is particularly intensive if you are doing network level tracking (X users going to Y IP that resolves to Z domain) that's a lot of packets to parse :)
Kisanth
ipconfig
nslookup cnnfn.com
tracert cnnfn.com
Email the output of that to kisanth88@gmail.com
I'll look into it.
Bah, I even proof read it 3 times..... That should read "Intel is a good THING" *sigh*
So reading the initial post I think: Bomb Shell.
Further reading and I think: Fluff.
Further thought and random comment reading and I think: Intel Inside.
What does that last one mean, that last one means, that I'm wondering if Apple isn't making a market move.
We have OSX based on FreeBSD. FreeBSD loves Intel hardware. Intel hardware has a natural market share over AMD/IBM and greater brand recognition.
Now think about this random idea. An Apple computer with a tastilly designed little "Intel Inside" sticker pasted on it and Apple becomes like Microsoft a "software is the future" company.
I think the idea of a sexy looking Apple PC with that "Intel Inside" logo would sell. To the average PC purchaser take the following equation:
Bigger numbers are better(Intel clock speed) + Intel is a good think (market share) + Sexy looking hardware (Apple designs well) + Sexy looking OS (Apple designs well) = +++ Which really means, "I want to buy it Mr. Salesman."
This of course is minus the technical issues, which I don't think are insurmountable with good developers and some help from Intel hardware-wise.
-Drunken K
Sig of above:
"Windows XP Uptime: 11months 2days 17hrs 41mins 37secs"
Dude, you are missing like..... a billion patches.
Security > Uptime.
Sheesh
-Kisanth
At the risk of sounding like a flame....
"fuck joe six pack"
Can you do plumbing, drywall, framing, roofing, siding, flooring, electical wiring, etc????
I'm sure you could do it with some training, but wait, who is going to train you? Joe Six Pack after you've "0wnz0r3d" his PC?
Not bloody likely.
The simple fact of the matter is that the human race an indeed technology owes it's position to specialization of skills. If you don't care about Joe Sixpack's PC experience then you are an elitist bastard.
It takes all kinds to make the world go round as they say and it is our job as the nerds/geeks/pointy head/whatever to make our part move you short sighted bastard.
** This post made while mostly drunk, 8 beers... Call me Joe 8 Pack, you asshat
Because it's still a population density issue. In Japan it's cost-effective to deply mini-cels in buildings to cover that building. There is a higher population density that reduces network cost while still maintaining a higher deployment rate to the public. Thereby you can take a small amount of capital and deploy mini-cells to cover buildings or areas that have poor coverage while still maintaining a cost effective full-sized-cell network.
I would love to be a carrier in Japan. Technologically savvy public, readily adopts new technologies, not afraid of gadgets and a land-mass that makes network deployment extremely cost effective.
-k
Firstly if there was a regulation put in place that required ISP's to default block initial ports for all of their customers there had better be some funding that comes along with that regulation because quite simply on even a smaller ISP's network (say 10 cities in the US) the manpower cost to implement this kind of filtering is not cheap. Secondly ISP's have enough problems making money and want to leverage things like this as services to increase their revenues. If you think that ISP's should by default block certain ports and provide protection for end-users then you may as well give all the networks services of the nation to AOL Time Warner. Let us also not forget that M$ doesn't come out of this scott free either with their careless enabling of services by default as well as poor coding. (I blame the former more than the latter) Thanks, -k
Depending on what exactly you are doing you may consider using multicast and joining the "Mbone". I don't know if it would suit your needs or not, but it wouldn't hurt you to research it and see if it applies.