The three points I addressed were pre-release, radar, and repro steps.
Now I consider bugs from private betas covered by NDAs to be forbidden fruit, and that's true of Microsoft as well. However, public betas are fair game. So it depends on the nature of the release, both for Microsoft and Apple..
Although it's possible there's another system somewhere, the only system I'm aware of for reporting bugs to Microsoft requires me to pay them. They may, at their discretion, return the money. I'm not risking my money to help Microsoft, so I don't expect anyone else to. And since Microsoft doesn't have a public and free bug reporting system, the repro steps would have to be public only at first. I don't like public only. Ideally, vendors should be notified first; simultaneously is the minimum. But by plugging their ears and requiring a credit card number, they're digging their own grave here.
I should say, by the way, that I don't especially like bugs being publicly disclosed quickly. It wouldn't be the way I'd handle it. But I don't think people who do it should be tarred and feathered. Maybe that wasn't clear.
I have never got a "free" Word. I have definitely had the option to get an inexpensive bundle, but it's never been free, and I've always had a choice to opt out of it. And none of those bundles have ever been less expensive than $33 ($99 for 3 users).
There is still no evidence that SecureWorks' hole exists. The subsequent patches from Apple are completely unrelated to the claimed vulnerability. I'm still waiting to see what SecureWorks has; so far, it really looks like nothing.
I don't oppose making the bugs public at all. But I do think this needs to be done in a fair manner.
Specifically:
Bugs should be in Mac OS X 10.4 (or possibly 10.3).
Pre-release software is not a fair target. It's under NDA, and is bound to have a bunch of issues. Apple has a system in place for dealing with 10.5 issues.
All bugs should be reported to Apple via Radar.
Posting without giving Apple advance notice is fine, but forcing Apple to deal with potentially thousands of reports from readers isn't.
The web and Radar report should both include steps to reproduce.
This really falls under the category of "duh." A bug report that can't be reproduced is simply not worth much (although it isn't entirely worthless).
No, it just proves you find humor in trolling. Randomly adding Darth to someone's last name simply isn't funny.
Darth Torvalds Darth Bush Darth Jobs Darth Stallman Darth Blair Darth Bin Laden
It's okay to find meta-humor amusing - i.e., the fact that Apple fanboys don't find it funny -- but posting to elicit that kind of response is trolling by definition.
Now, personally, I wouldn't waste mod points modding it down anyway, but I would not m2 Unfair someone who did. My only point is this: You're not being nearly as clever as you think.
What I find funny about this is that I have seen dozens of requests for a top menu bar option in Gnome. I've even seen patches to implement it. We're not talking a period of months, either, but years and years. If the menu bar location really is a "love it or hate it" thing (and keeping it attached to windows is not a pseudo-religious FUD "we're not Apple!" thing), where's that option? It's probably the most requested feature for Gnome. I'm sure KDE is the same.
Without a doubt, Visual Studio is the least capable - and most frustrating - IDE I've ever used. Intellisense is so buggy as to be almost impossible to work wtih.
I concur that the lack of the Apple menu will tend to confuse people, but only because power users set it up for them with the applications they needed. None of the rest apply; the first time you start a Mac OS X system it walks you through the multi-user stuff and sets the system to automatically log in. Users (as opposed to tweakers) never even opened their system folder, let alone tinkered with it. Users had one printer, and if their settings broke they called someone to fix it. The few users I ran into who moved applications did so by mistake, and were quite happy to learn how to move them back. Oh, and the Finder does not default to column mode.
Yes and no. Because the Canadian "pirate tax" exists, the courts have so far (to my knowledge, anyway) said that consumed are allowed to swap music all they want.
Believe me, I understand the "rational" perspective. However, i do not believe the perspective is, in fact, rational because no amount of evidence would convince this "rational" person otherwise. Rational is defined as "agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible." If a rational person can not be convinced of something by a reasonable amount of sensible evidence, we have clearly either misdefined rational or are applying it incorrectly.
What do I mean?
Nowhere in that post did I ever say I had previously woken my wife in the middle of the night, having had a dream that did not come true. You assumed this. In fact, that was the first time I've ever woken her up. Before then, I never remembered a single dream.
Assume that I'm telling you the truth about that, okay? Yes, I can't prove it to you, unless you follow the recipe I already provided, of course. But I think we've already established you're not going to actually try it.
Okay. This dream indicates precognition is possible. This other one indicates ESP is possible, or that I can otherwise read minds. This other one indicates that I have a goal in life I don't understand. This other one indicates... what? After how many hundreds of examples from my life, and how many hundreds of other lives that function the same way, would it be more rational to stop trying to explain things away individually and seek a broader explanation?
But Cherry's inane ranting (a perfect description, btw) is what makes him so charming!
I remember a few years ago Greg Millen did a Toronto game. Dozens of us sent messages saying how great he was, and how he should be kept. It didn't do any good, though; they moved him back to Vancouver games anyway. (Did I mention I live in Vancouver, not Toronto? It was a clever plan. Too bad it didn't work.)
It is exactly as externally verifiable as any other proof. Working through any proof requires an individual given the proof to work through the process and verify the conclusions. Have a person willingly work through the same process, and he or she will verify the same conclusion every single time. This is exactly the case as a proof for God, only with the added wrinkle that you need to be unsure of what the result will be.
Are you looking for specific examples in my life of God moving? I'd be happy to share them, but how much are they going to mean to you?
For instance, you used an example of "I was praying for that last month." Exactly how short does the time period need to be, and how specific the "coincidence," and how often?
To give one really specific example, a few months ago I had a specific dream where my grandfather died. I stayed in the dream just long enough to find out exactly how, though I didn't have to in order to help him. I woke and woke my wife, and she verified he was still alive. I described the dream to her.
Now, the bible says we're given authority over life and death, so we agreed he would live through whatever was coming. (That's all the bible says you need to do.) I went back to sleep completely at peace with the situation. Less than twelve hours later, my grandfather was in the hospital with exactly the condition I described to my wife. They didn't know what was wrong and sent him home. Two hours after that, he was sent to the hospital in an ambulance. They figured it out this time and, though they were sure he'd die from his infection (which by this point was very advanced) successfully treated him.
I found this out about 36 hours after God told me. Nobody thought to let me know my grandfather was that close to death.
This is not a one-time occurrence. This is something that now happens whenever my extended family is in any kind of jeopardy. It isn't just health & safety issues, either; God's told me a few specific things that I shared with my wife that happened exactly as I described them. Again, how many, how specific, and how quickly?
If you can send anyone through a process and have them realize there is a God, and He talks to them, and He tells them things they cannot otherwise know then it is in fact provable on a person-by-person basis. What remains is whether or not someone will try the proof. It sounds like you've decided not to; that's fine, but in that case you simply can't claim that it won't work.
Slashdot Mirror
The three points I addressed were pre-release, radar, and repro steps.
Now I consider bugs from private betas covered by NDAs to be forbidden fruit, and that's true of Microsoft as well. However, public betas are fair game. So it depends on the nature of the release, both for Microsoft and Apple..
Although it's possible there's another system somewhere, the only system I'm aware of for reporting bugs to Microsoft requires me to pay them. They may, at their discretion, return the money. I'm not risking my money to help Microsoft, so I don't expect anyone else to. And since Microsoft doesn't have a public and free bug reporting system, the repro steps would have to be public only at first. I don't like public only. Ideally, vendors should be notified first; simultaneously is the minimum. But by plugging their ears and requiring a credit card number, they're digging their own grave here.
I should say, by the way, that I don't especially like bugs being publicly disclosed quickly. It wouldn't be the way I'd handle it. But I don't think people who do it should be tarred and feathered. Maybe that wasn't clear.
True, but after following the scent of a chocolate bar, I'd want that chocolate bar right now, darnit. :)
Not me. I'd want a chocolate bar at the end. But I think that's fair.
See, now coming up with alternate names to use... that's actually funny. I got a good chuckle out of this list. Darth GNU indeed! :)
By the end, I'm sure the participants were drooling. Did they get to eat the chocolate?
I have never got a "free" Word. I have definitely had the option to get an inexpensive bundle, but it's never been free, and I've always had a choice to opt out of it. And none of those bundles have ever been less expensive than $33 ($99 for 3 users).
There is still no evidence that SecureWorks' hole exists. The subsequent patches from Apple are completely unrelated to the claimed vulnerability. I'm still waiting to see what SecureWorks has; so far, it really looks like nothing.
I don't oppose making the bugs public at all. But I do think this needs to be done in a fair manner.
Specifically:
Pre-release software is not a fair target. It's under NDA, and is bound to have a bunch of issues. Apple has a system in place for dealing with 10.5 issues.
Posting without giving Apple advance notice is fine, but forcing Apple to deal with potentially thousands of reports from readers isn't.
This really falls under the category of "duh." A bug report that can't be reproduced is simply not worth much (although it isn't entirely worthless).
No, it just proves you find humor in trolling. Randomly adding Darth to someone's last name simply isn't funny.
Darth Torvalds
Darth Bush
Darth Jobs
Darth Stallman
Darth Blair
Darth Bin Laden
It's okay to find meta-humor amusing - i.e., the fact that Apple fanboys don't find it funny -- but posting to elicit that kind of response is trolling by definition.
Now, personally, I wouldn't waste mod points modding it down anyway, but I would not m2 Unfair someone who did. My only point is this: You're not being nearly as clever as you think.
Yeah, I could do this in 20 seconds.
So buy Word? It sounds like you qualify for the Student/Teacher edition.
"Oh, sure! First you get us hooked and then you jack up the price!"
Awesome! I'm switching when I get home. Thanks.
What I find funny about this is that I have seen dozens of requests for a top menu bar option in Gnome. I've even seen patches to implement it. We're not talking a period of months, either, but years and years. If the menu bar location really is a "love it or hate it" thing (and keeping it attached to windows is not a pseudo-religious FUD "we're not Apple!" thing), where's that option? It's probably the most requested feature for Gnome. I'm sure KDE is the same.
Interesting, but "I think this is real" is not the same as "I agree that this is proven."
Without a doubt, Visual Studio is the least capable - and most frustrating - IDE I've ever used. Intellisense is so buggy as to be almost impossible to work wtih.
I wonder if there really is a reward at 1,000? They should have said 100,000 just to make some idiot try it.
I concur that the lack of the Apple menu will tend to confuse people, but only because power users set it up for them with the applications they needed. None of the rest apply; the first time you start a Mac OS X system it walks you through the multi-user stuff and sets the system to automatically log in. Users (as opposed to tweakers) never even opened their system folder, let alone tinkered with it. Users had one printer, and if their settings broke they called someone to fix it. The few users I ran into who moved applications did so by mistake, and were quite happy to learn how to move them back. Oh, and the Finder does not default to column mode.
Yes and no. Because the Canadian "pirate tax" exists, the courts have so far (to my knowledge, anyway) said that consumed are allowed to swap music all they want.
Btw, in case it isn't clear, I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. If you're not, feel free to say so and I'll stop responding. :)
Believe me, I understand the "rational" perspective. However, i do not believe the perspective is, in fact, rational because no amount of evidence would convince this "rational" person otherwise. Rational is defined as "agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible." If a rational person can not be convinced of something by a reasonable amount of sensible evidence, we have clearly either misdefined rational or are applying it incorrectly.
What do I mean?
Nowhere in that post did I ever say I had previously woken my wife in the middle of the night, having had a dream that did not come true. You assumed this. In fact, that was the first time I've ever woken her up. Before then, I never remembered a single dream.
Assume that I'm telling you the truth about that, okay? Yes, I can't prove it to you, unless you follow the recipe I already provided, of course. But I think we've already established you're not going to actually try it.
Okay. This dream indicates precognition is possible. This other one indicates ESP is possible, or that I can otherwise read minds. This other one indicates that I have a goal in life I don't understand. This other one indicates... what? After how many hundreds of examples from my life, and how many hundreds of other lives that function the same way, would it be more rational to stop trying to explain things away individually and seek a broader explanation?
mostly for the US stations in basic cable which the government wont let us watch without paying the cable companies
...because all radio waves need to clear Canada customs.
But Cherry's inane ranting (a perfect description, btw) is what makes him so charming!
I remember a few years ago Greg Millen did a Toronto game. Dozens of us sent messages saying how great he was, and how he should be kept. It didn't do any good, though; they moved him back to Vancouver games anyway. (Did I mention I live in Vancouver, not Toronto? It was a clever plan. Too bad it didn't work.)
It is exactly as externally verifiable as any other proof. Working through any proof requires an individual given the proof to work through the process and verify the conclusions. Have a person willingly work through the same process, and he or she will verify the same conclusion every single time. This is exactly the case as a proof for God, only with the added wrinkle that you need to be unsure of what the result will be.
Are you looking for specific examples in my life of God moving? I'd be happy to share them, but how much are they going to mean to you?
For instance, you used an example of "I was praying for that last month." Exactly how short does the time period need to be, and how specific the "coincidence," and how often?
To give one really specific example, a few months ago I had a specific dream where my grandfather died. I stayed in the dream just long enough to find out exactly how, though I didn't have to in order to help him. I woke and woke my wife, and she verified he was still alive. I described the dream to her.
Now, the bible says we're given authority over life and death, so we agreed he would live through whatever was coming. (That's all the bible says you need to do.) I went back to sleep completely at peace with the situation. Less than twelve hours later, my grandfather was in the hospital with exactly the condition I described to my wife. They didn't know what was wrong and sent him home. Two hours after that, he was sent to the hospital in an ambulance. They figured it out this time and, though they were sure he'd die from his infection (which by this point was very advanced) successfully treated him.
I found this out about 36 hours after God told me. Nobody thought to let me know my grandfather was that close to death.
This is not a one-time occurrence. This is something that now happens whenever my extended family is in any kind of jeopardy. It isn't just health & safety issues, either; God's told me a few specific things that I shared with my wife that happened exactly as I described them. Again, how many, how specific, and how quickly?
If you can send anyone through a process and have them realize there is a God, and He talks to them, and He tells them things they cannot otherwise know then it is in fact provable on a person-by-person basis. What remains is whether or not someone will try the proof. It sounds like you've decided not to; that's fine, but in that case you simply can't claim that it won't work.