First off, I'm an Opera user and a big fan of mouse gestures and a handful of other features in its latest version.
Here's what I agree with:
-Mouse gestures should not be too complicated. The "S" shaped ones and crazy circles etc are in fact unreliable (although I can accept that others may be able to do them accurately). I find that anything more complicated that two moves is a pain.
-There are perfectly good alternatives that involve keyboard use.
-anti Microsoft fanboys are tools.
Here's my rebuttal-
You say there are more efficient means of browsing. I disagree (to an extent). If I'm browsing only with my keyboard, fine.. point taken. I do like to browse with keyboard as much as possible. When I use my mouse, chances are I don't have my free hand positioned over the keyboard, so it takes time to get it there and more importantly, focus and a concerted effort. With mouse gestures, I don't have to look for anything to click on or move my hand for the F5 key. My hand is already where it needs to be, I just flick the wrist. I think this is much more efficient browsing since you don't have to think about anything. The only thing that comes relatively close in my book is the right click popup in most browsers that let you go back. You can go back a page almost without looking at the menu.. you know to right click and move down just a hair and click.. bam! Back a page. But what about four pages back in history? Then you have to go the back button above. With mouse gestures, you don't have to think about it.
I know.. I'm going to get the "what your too lazy to move the mouse even to a right click popup!?!?" but that's not the point. The point is, I want to go back or forward without any thought. It should be an extension of what I'm thinking with very little effort.
Bottom line, I like my browser to be responsive to my browsing as much as possible... and to hold one mouse button and move a handful of pixels is about as responsive as I can image. I don't have to find the ctrl. key or the F5 key or anything.
Even more bottom line... I like my browsing to be able to be done without looking at anything navgation related (that's why I don't like pie menues). I should be able to be reading a post and think "nah, that's stupid..back" and I'm back... not "nah that's stupid.. ok, there's the back button.. and click.. back"
Right... you took the text right out of my fingers. Actually, my first thought when reading the original post was "OperaShow" for a powerpoint like web browsing experience with pg up pg down going to the next page.
I admit.. although I love the keyboard the 'F' keys are generally something I can't hit without looking at the keyboard or at least feeling for the correct group of four keys especially since I don't make a habit of keeping my free hand hovering over the keyboard while browsing.
That takes my focus of what I want to do (reload the page to see what's changed... a non issue since I'd have to wait a non-negligible amount of time for the page to load, but apply this idea to other mouse gestures and it has significance).
But that's only two buttons. I can see more than up down left and right gestures being annoying and difficult, but that four basic motions that you can get from a standard mouse with two buttons that wouldn't be too difficult to do. It's when you start throwing in the 'S' shaped gestures that things get goofy. I personally don't use anything that has more than two motions in it Up then down" or "Down then Left" since the margin of error increases the more complicated it becomes.
Ugh...
No.. nobody is saying it's exhausting. But what's wrong with having the capability without moving "all the way up?"
How far would you have to move your mouse before it became more of a hinderance to your browsing than helpful? What if you had two monitors and you have to select something on the other monitor to reload a page in the first? Surely that would be annoying right? Well, that's how I feel about having to move my mouse all the way up there. It takes my attention away from what I'm doing (yes, I know the right click context menu works fine and is a viable alternative for me)
For me, I like being able to browse without having to worry about the buttons. I simply wave my hands and the page goes away or reloads or switches whatever. I don't want to have to physically focus in on the "back" or "reload" buttons. I just want the browser extend my desires as easily as possible with little distractions. To me, browsing without mouse gestures is like a button pressing user having a confirm box pop up saying "are you sure you want to go back?" every time you click back. It's a distraction that doesn't need to be there.
I hate the whole "you're too lazy to click back?" arguement. It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with efficiency and focus on what you're doing.
Someone will tell you to get StrokeIt or some compatable application. I say: "forget it" I don't like StrokeIt. There is something to be said for applications and (in your case) and OS that has the gestures native. They are smooth and quick. The plugins and third party stuff never seem the same to me.
I agree, it would be nice for OS support for mouse gestures.
I agree with the spirit of you post and I don't mean any ill regards... but you should seriously reconsider your welcome page:
"Welcome to my small yet somewhat interesting home on the 'net."
This has to the single most commonly printed expression in personal web pages. I stopped reading after that.
But to give you a fair shake before posting and went back and read the intro page again before posting. I note that you make a light hearted poke at web pages in general which eases the pain of your opening.. but my original comment still stands.
In conclusion, in the pictures of you halloween part, the plug/socket combo costume gave me a great (lazy) idea for next halloween, for which I thank you. Since you have provided me with something of value, your webpage has served a casual web browser. Bravo good sir, mission accomplished, you have restored some faith as to the purpose of personal web pages that start out with intros saying "welcome to my home on the net!"
I think the story submitted about Javascript mouse gestures is rediculous.
And I dont' really like the mouse gestures in Moz/Firebird. I'm not sure if its because they are JavaScript.. they just don't feel right. In Opera they feel native and smooth. In Firebird they feel like an add on...an afterthought if you will.
Hey.. I used obstuse in my post too.. sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder. If we were on fark, I would ask the mods to disable voting on my post:)
Sure, you choose the most obtuse gesture on the list completely ingorning the back/forward new page, and close page links (I'm an Opera user so I can't speak for Moz).
Yes, the view source gesture is rediculous, I would never do any gesture that involved more than two movements (snicker snicker.. yeah, I got it Beavis, I almost used the work 'strokes' instead of movements).
Yes hitting f5 is really convienient when you hands are on the keyboard... and no I'm not sooo lazy that I can't move my hand back from the keyboard.. but why not centralize as much functionality as possible? If I can easily reload the page without moving a hand to a keyboard, then I'm all for it.
Mouse gestures simply rock if only for the forward and back navigation. How about opening a link in the background? I don't have to hold control or anything else.. I just right click the link and move down. That's not too hard is it?
Look, I like keyboard navigation as much as the next guy. In windows, I live and die by my winkey application (from copernic) so that I can get some actual use out of the stupid windows key. I browse using Operas spatial navigation features as much as possible. But browsing is something that is designed for mouse so, if I've got my mouse in had, I want to be able to do as much as I can with it before I go to the keyboard, and vice versa.
Everything I read on slashdot tells me that someone will inevitably reply and call me lazy for not wanting to move from the mouse to the keyboard. That's fine.. I'm more fit than you (and as a bonus, I also have a job and have procreated! Checkmate slashdotter!). I just don't think it's necessary to constantly have to move back and forth from keyboard to mouse, nor do I think you should have to take your focus away from the page in order to click the back button at the top of the browser (admittedly, the right click popup is a viable alternative)
key word is think, not purchase. If you wait until school starts to start doing research/asking questions then it may be too late once you decide to pull the trigger and buy.
Slashdot Mirror
Here's what I agree with: -Mouse gestures should not be too complicated. The "S" shaped ones and crazy circles etc are in fact unreliable (although I can accept that others may be able to do them accurately). I find that anything more complicated that two moves is a pain.
-There are perfectly good alternatives that involve keyboard use.
-anti Microsoft fanboys are tools.
Here's my rebuttal- You say there are more efficient means of browsing. I disagree (to an extent). If I'm browsing only with my keyboard, fine.. point taken. I do like to browse with keyboard as much as possible. When I use my mouse, chances are I don't have my free hand positioned over the keyboard, so it takes time to get it there and more importantly, focus and a concerted effort. With mouse gestures, I don't have to look for anything to click on or move my hand for the F5 key. My hand is already where it needs to be, I just flick the wrist. I think this is much more efficient browsing since you don't have to think about anything. The only thing that comes relatively close in my book is the right click popup in most browsers that let you go back. You can go back a page almost without looking at the menu.. you know to right click and move down just a hair and click.. bam! Back a page. But what about four pages back in history? Then you have to go the back button above. With mouse gestures, you don't have to think about it.
I know.. I'm going to get the "what your too lazy to move the mouse even to a right click popup!?!?" but that's not the point. The point is, I want to go back or forward without any thought. It should be an extension of what I'm thinking with very little effort.
Bottom line, I like my browser to be responsive to my browsing as much as possible... and to hold one mouse button and move a handful of pixels is about as responsive as I can image. I don't have to find the ctrl. key or the F5 key or anything.
Even more bottom line... I like my browsing to be able to be done without looking at anything navgation related (that's why I don't like pie menues). I should be able to be reading a post and think "nah, that's stupid..back" and I'm back... not "nah that's stupid.. ok, there's the back button.. and click.. back"
Right... you took the text right out of my fingers. Actually, my first thought when reading the original post was "OperaShow" for a powerpoint like web browsing experience with pg up pg down going to the next page.
That takes my focus of what I want to do (reload the page to see what's changed... a non issue since I'd have to wait a non-negligible amount of time for the page to load, but apply this idea to other mouse gestures and it has significance).
But that's only two buttons. I can see more than up down left and right gestures being annoying and difficult, but that four basic motions that you can get from a standard mouse with two buttons that wouldn't be too difficult to do. It's when you start throwing in the 'S' shaped gestures that things get goofy. I personally don't use anything that has more than two motions in it Up then down" or "Down then Left" since the margin of error increases the more complicated it becomes.
How far would you have to move your mouse before it became more of a hinderance to your browsing than helpful? What if you had two monitors and you have to select something on the other monitor to reload a page in the first? Surely that would be annoying right? Well, that's how I feel about having to move my mouse all the way up there. It takes my attention away from what I'm doing (yes, I know the right click context menu works fine and is a viable alternative for me)
For me, I like being able to browse without having to worry about the buttons. I simply wave my hands and the page goes away or reloads or switches whatever. I don't want to have to physically focus in on the "back" or "reload" buttons. I just want the browser extend my desires as easily as possible with little distractions. To me, browsing without mouse gestures is like a button pressing user having a confirm box pop up saying "are you sure you want to go back?" every time you click back. It's a distraction that doesn't need to be there.
I hate the whole "you're too lazy to click back?" arguement. It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with efficiency and focus on what you're doing.
I agree, it would be nice for OS support for mouse gestures.
my spelling sucks
"Welcome to my small yet somewhat interesting home on the 'net."
This has to the single most commonly printed expression in personal web pages. I stopped reading after that.
But to give you a fair shake before posting and went back and read the intro page again before posting. I note that you make a light hearted poke at web pages in general which eases the pain of your opening.. but my original comment still stands.
In conclusion, in the pictures of you halloween part, the plug/socket combo costume gave me a great (lazy) idea for next halloween, for which I thank you. Since you have provided me with something of value, your webpage has served a casual web browser. Bravo good sir, mission accomplished, you have restored some faith as to the purpose of personal web pages that start out with intros saying "welcome to my home on the net!"
And I dont' really like the mouse gestures in Moz/Firebird. I'm not sure if its because they are JavaScript.. they just don't feel right. In Opera they feel native and smooth. In Firebird they feel like an add on...an afterthought if you will.
Hey.. I used obstuse in my post too.. sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder. If we were on fark, I would ask the mods to disable voting on my post :)
Yes, the view source gesture is rediculous, I would never do any gesture that involved more than two movements (snicker snicker.. yeah, I got it Beavis, I almost used the work 'strokes' instead of movements).
Yes hitting f5 is really convienient when you hands are on the keyboard... and no I'm not sooo lazy that I can't move my hand back from the keyboard.. but why not centralize as much functionality as possible? If I can easily reload the page without moving a hand to a keyboard, then I'm all for it.
Mouse gestures simply rock if only for the forward and back navigation. How about opening a link in the background? I don't have to hold control or anything else.. I just right click the link and move down. That's not too hard is it?
Look, I like keyboard navigation as much as the next guy. In windows, I live and die by my winkey application (from copernic) so that I can get some actual use out of the stupid windows key. I browse using Operas spatial navigation features as much as possible. But browsing is something that is designed for mouse so, if I've got my mouse in had, I want to be able to do as much as I can with it before I go to the keyboard, and vice versa.
Everything I read on slashdot tells me that someone will inevitably reply and call me lazy for not wanting to move from the mouse to the keyboard. That's fine.. I'm more fit than you (and as a bonus, I also have a job and have procreated! Checkmate slashdotter!). I just don't think it's necessary to constantly have to move back and forth from keyboard to mouse, nor do I think you should have to take your focus away from the page in order to click the back button at the top of the browser (admittedly, the right click popup is a viable alternative)
This, my friend, is for you: Fingerworks
Sounds like Strong Bad asking Marzipan if she likes him.
key word is think, not purchase. If you wait until school starts to start doing research/asking questions then it may be too late once you decide to pull the trigger and buy.
"Who are the ad wizards who came up with this one!" -Same sketch
Here ya go my brutha.. come in from the dark