"First of all, your statement that "Energy doens't come from nowhere and if we all had electric cars then there would just be more coal burning power plants," applies equally well to fuel-cell cars."
Of course it does, that's why I said we need new technologies. I never said fuel cells produce energy from nothingness.
"And in any event, that same technology could be used to replace coal plants, too, which nullifies your complaint about pure electric cars."
America uses way too much coal power. Which do you think will take the energy producing market first? Fuel cell vehicles or fuel cell power plants?
"Something that you are overlooking is economy of scale in large power plants. While it is true that if we were all driving electric cars, we would need a beefed-up electric grid, it is also true that big electric plants are more efficient than cars in extracting energy, and that they are also easier to regulate and monitor."
Valid point but we still use too much coal for power plants.
"Also, one of the reasons that hybrid electric vehicles get good overall mileage is that the motor is optimized for a narrow load range, unlike conventional automobile motors which have to supply reasonable torque over a wide RPM range. This means that the hybrid power plants can be more efficient and/or simpler."
This can be done with any motor. But... everyone in American wants to drive a Ford Excursion.
"Finally, I have never seen a detailed energy analysis of the fuel-cell energy cycle."
Fuel cells have energy efficiency ratings of around 50% whereas internal combustion engines running on gasoline have about a 25% efficiency.
We need newer, more efficient technologies(fuel cells), not new vehicles that derive energy from the same old sources and technologies. Energy doens't come from nowhere and if we all had electric cars then there would just be more coal burning power plants.
Just think of the hybrid Toyota Prius. Where do you think the electricity comes from? It's batteries. How does it charge these batteries? From the engine and energy collected from braking. The energy collected from braking is not a significant amount of energy to constitute any real sigh of relief to an oil shortage problem.
Electricity isn't a free thing, even for a hybrid car. Try turning your headlights on and all electrical accessories next time you're in your car and listen to the engine. You'll probably notice that the engine loses some RPMs and then comes back up to speed. That's because your modern day computer controlled vehicle just started giving the engine more fuel/air to make more power to compensate for the power you're demanding from it's alternator.
We need efficiency. We need fuel cells.
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"First of all, your statement that "Energy doens't come from nowhere and if we all had electric cars then there would just be more coal burning power plants," applies equally well to fuel-cell cars."
Of course it does, that's why I said we need new technologies. I never said fuel cells produce energy from nothingness.
"And in any event, that same technology could be used to replace coal plants, too, which nullifies your complaint about pure electric cars."
America uses way too much coal power. Which do you think will take the energy producing market first? Fuel cell vehicles or fuel cell power plants?
"Something that you are overlooking is economy of scale in large power plants. While it is true that if we were all driving electric cars, we would need a beefed-up electric grid, it is also true that big electric plants are more efficient than cars in extracting energy, and that they are also easier to regulate and monitor."
Valid point but we still use too much coal for power plants.
"Also, one of the reasons that hybrid electric vehicles get good overall mileage is that the motor is optimized for a narrow load range, unlike conventional automobile motors which have to supply reasonable torque over a wide RPM range. This means that the hybrid power plants can be more efficient and/or simpler."
This can be done with any motor. But... everyone in American wants to drive a Ford Excursion.
"Finally, I have never seen a detailed energy analysis of the fuel-cell energy cycle."
Fuel cells have energy efficiency ratings of around 50% whereas internal combustion engines running on gasoline have about a 25% efficiency.
I said we need newer technologies. "more efficient technologies(fuel cells)"
We need newer, more efficient technologies(fuel cells), not new vehicles that derive energy from the same old sources and technologies. Energy doens't come from nowhere and if we all had electric cars then there would just be more coal burning power plants. Just think of the hybrid Toyota Prius. Where do you think the electricity comes from? It's batteries. How does it charge these batteries? From the engine and energy collected from braking. The energy collected from braking is not a significant amount of energy to constitute any real sigh of relief to an oil shortage problem. Electricity isn't a free thing, even for a hybrid car. Try turning your headlights on and all electrical accessories next time you're in your car and listen to the engine. You'll probably notice that the engine loses some RPMs and then comes back up to speed. That's because your modern day computer controlled vehicle just started giving the engine more fuel/air to make more power to compensate for the power you're demanding from it's alternator. We need efficiency. We need fuel cells.