OS X is a 'rip-off' from NeXT because it is literally the next step of NeXT. And a lot of old-school NeXT developers are carrying the flag now, so they're basically ripping off themselves.
And well, you're right, and yes, my rant was an emotional one, but just like OS X added heaps of style and innovation to an already stylish OS, KDE does have incredibly wild themes and some true innovation that take away from copy-cat stuff like Keychain or whatever. That - while it confuses me at the same time (habits habits) - I enjoy and appreciate.
The new Linspire stuff doesn't add anything new, and that is reason enough to evoke at least one emotional rant.
Not saying I wouldn't use the apps if I were to "switch" today, but I generally prefer some originality over complete copying.
When iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes saw the light, there was something about those apps. They were different, not standard at all, it took some time to get used to them (about 5 minutes).
And they kicked ass, you ended up wanting to use them, finding excuses and stupid projects (let's digitise all my JJ Cale albums, yeah!) to test and try every hook and nook of your mac all over again.
That's what original and good design can do for you, dear linux crowd. I'm currently feeling my way around KDE and while very impressed (all this for FREE?) I'm constantly muttering "rip-off" under my breath.
Amazingly enough a lot of linux users are very much badmouthing a lot of products that get copied almost to the last detail.
While I'm a standards freak and know they can be more important than innovation for the sake of it, there's a time and place and above all USE for originality and style. And there are many ways to express them.
LPhoto and LSong are Lame (as said in previous post) and not because they were copied (who cares), but because they were copied without LStyle and LOriginality and as such Lack LFlavour.
The naming. This whole iWhatever thing already is long in the teeth, but at least has meaning and says something to and about the user.
LSong? LPhoto, that's just plain LLLLLLame.
SongBox, PhotoLog or whatever, how hard is it to come up with names that mean something?
Some originality while still trying to indicate what the program does. Lsong sounds like me too much like an oriental fortune cooky quoting machine and LPhoto... say that ten times, real fast...
A cease and desist is written in a minute and a half... They do it basically every few weeks, so why not for commercial Linux rip-offs? It's not as if we're talking about free-ware here.
"That being said, does the nature of the World Wide Web in fact give sites like Wonkette, Drudge, or even Slashdot a free pass on accuracy if it means the difference between getting the scoop or not?"
It's funny to say on/. but one should always be aware of the source.
The web may give rise to some inaccuracy in reporting, but luckily it also empowers people to investigate themselves.
I don't want to belittle the issue, as it is an important one, but one could raise the question "should the web be more correct and integer than other media?"
At least, now you have the option of a thousand sources instead of just the pre-packaged opinions from multibillion dollar media-outlets.
And at least, places like/. and blogs give people the chance to react or offer alternative sources.
I meant helpful for the Linux community, not to myself.
For me, the problem was none of the PPC distributions supported Firewire HDD booting. And the other option, creating partitions through Linux itself seemed a daunting task, a typical RTFM-and-then-some Odysseus of which I just know I'm not qualified. And the hardware compatibility list showed a few red flags and workarounds that are also beyond my capabilities.
I have decided on an approach that is within my "intellectual" reach and doesn't require days of trying and reading contradictory information and messing with settings I don't understand. Been there, done that, didn't like it one bit.
So OS X native KDE support sounds like heaven. A bit of geek-estate without the head-ache. So far, even in the extremely buggy Pre-Alpha, I find a lot of nice things.
btw: I've heard of so called fool proof installations, and will surely consider them when I finally have a little PC to torture:-)
I'm not sure if this article warrants the attention it gets and I don't like overblown titles, but *every* article get a *wild* title so don't blow your fuses on that.
But some of the reactions here on a Common Problem are funny as hell "is this guy qualified to do a Linux install?", "Is it Linux's fault that there are no drivers for his sound card?" etc.
I think a lot of linux advocates have stated that hardware compatibility and installer ease of use are weak points in Linux.
I'm now toying around with the native Pre-Alpha KDE for OS X. It comes wrapped up as an OS X-default mpkg, which means it uses Apple's standard Installer.app, and that's the only way I can enjoy OSS programs because all my other install attempts be it under X11 or on external disks have failed, because 1) installing indeed requires someone "qualified", at least on my OS and in my experience; and 2) my hardware isn't supported unless I want to wipe out my system disk and make the jump. The more I see first hand on Linux usability, the less likely that becomes.
Now I don't give a *** who's to blame. I don't blame anybody, for me it's a harmless hobby and you guys provide it to me for free, so what's to complain. But there are only two conclusions - one is not helpful. 1) This Is A Problem 2) This Guy Is Too Stooopid To Use Linux And I'm L33T.
I don't care how you look at it, it's "your" platform, but if you like the idea of widespread adoption of Linux, you'll have to live with media attention. And that means that if there are Problems, they'll be mentioned.
Overall, I think there's an incredible amount of goodwill towards Linux at the moment. And there are a lot of people who - like me - are happy to keep looking at OSS despite some bad experiences.
A good argument to make is: usability will significantly reduce the amount of training required - since training is for most companies a considerable cost.
And as with all value adding: you should make them pay for the usability. This takes some salesmanship, but I've seen it done. It always helps to show some real world examples, they abound, both of the good and the bad.
I'm not pretending to know your business, and do take your point, but I've also seen a lot of companies go belly up because they focussed solely on short term. In the end it's about making a product that meets the customers needs. There are many ways to do it, not all of them desirable, but usability is an asset and if marketed right, a money maker, not a loss.
And it's a big help in cutting development time and otoh justifying some delays.
I excuse for the harshness of my reply, but the point is and remains: always look at the users first.
In your case - and you're right, I don't know most of the circumstances, but what was clear was: - you knew exactly who was going to use your product. That's a dream come true for a lot of developers.
And you don't only look at the most cost-effective employee, you also look at the average employee and see how you can get him in the same performance class as the most cost-effective one. Often this *can* be done by design.
And as said, cost can never be an issue since it's pretty well proven that a bit of good, honest and sustained user testing and communicating saves heaps and heaps of development costs later on.
While it takes time and effort to do usability, it generally takes a lot more time to develop, so you should always look at avoiding developing the "wrong" thing.
I've been frustrated in using Linux, and get this, I'm far from alone in this. I know sys-admins who confessed they can't install a lot of stuff they downloaded.
If there's a truly user-friendly place of people who can tell you 1) which apps actually are installable and usable 2) how you can do the most common things with them then PJ deserves at least one Nobel price.
I don't feel it duplicates any existing project.
And two nice side effects might be: 1) a better how-to standard/template to be used by programmers or manual writers 2) more programmers caring about some of the issues inside some programs.
As always, not a developer myself, so respect and thanks.
"We added hundreds of new features, but because they lost one the upgrade was crap and they couldn't use it. I'm afraid that it's all about who bitches the loudest"
You blame users for your sheer stupidity?
You might have walked in and, talked to the users and observed which features they actually need in order to get their job done.
What keeps amazing me is that loads of programmers just don't relate - or want to relate - to users. They walk, talk, shit and stink just like you do.
Doing usability studies is easy. There's enough literature to try and do it yourself as long as you're honest about it.
And if you want to bicker about the cost, think about all the trouble you might have saved yourself...
For everybody looking for the right time to buy the latest and greatest: might I suggest the following? It works every time:
Evidently, the fastest computer will be the latest model. If you need a computer in say January, buy one in January. If you need one today, buy one today.
"In essence, Appe takes from the open source community, mutates its function and intent, and then spits it back out with a high price and fruity colors."
Oh my god, that must be why KHTML browsers look so cool nowadays...
Every advance Apple makes in OSS, they put back in the OSS community. Hence the advances made the last couple of years in BSD.
And what's not open is what they've developed themselves, be it at NeXT or at Apple.
You should read up on the subject. Fruity colours indeed. Those iMacs happen to be W-H-I-T-E btw.
It should come as no surprise that a lot of posts are in the vein of "they should have used xxx instead of Apple, because Apple is proprietary/expensive/..."
Which shows a lot of people who shout RTFM all day are above RTFA. I think it's pretty cool to see macs deployed in open source situations. Best of two worlds and such...
The funniest posts of course are in the vein of "they should of called my cousin Ned" (translated from "build yourself").
Which shows a lot of people don't know what "Cost" and "Cost of ownership" and associated factors are.
Even with Apple's recent track record, I doubt self-built kits will outlive a bunch of macs without blowing some fuses and minds, but whatever.
I think the appropriate response to Apple and NSW TA would be "Good on ye, mate!"
Um, I like the notion, but to be completely honest: I'd copy.
Yes I would.
And so would everybody I know. I'm pretty sure.
I'm actually very conservative about this, I think I have about 4 copied CD's in a total collection of 300+ CD's and 400+ records, but still...
I know I would do it because where I lived a year ago, I could buy pirated software for $4 as opposed to twice or trice the market price in the US, and guess what, I bought the pirates.
It's a shame, really, I won't waste your time with excuses, but the bottom line is: Software firm fears are grounded.
I'm not waving a flag for proprietary, afaic everything should be free, but as long as it isn't I don't expect programmers or musicians to turn into revolutionaries just because I'm too lame to pay for other people's work.
I'm always bitching about usability and installers, but maybe the biggest problem really is the missing "retail experience". You know (might remember): grabbing the box, checking out and reading the install instructions. Think of it as a ritual if you will.
If such a library project could emulate some of this, that would overcome a big obstacle.
I think: include a booklet with hardware compatibility, system requirements and install instructions, make sure all distributions are stable and leave the experimental stuff for adventurers out of it. Adventurers will have to "rough it" on their own, it's part of the fun, or so I'm told.
Also provide a descriptive list of what's included. Linux program names are horribly confusing.
Just thought I'd mention here that Steve Jobs had nothing to do with Apple's lock-out strategy. That was that ex-pepsi guy Jobs reeled in.
Jobs at the time was already fired for his hum arrogance.
I'd love to see Apple make strategic alliances, but rather with Sony than with Real. Anyway, although the guy has a big mouth, he has done some pretty amazing things, and a lot of Apple's bad business decisions had nothing to do with him.
He was making his own bad decisions at NeXT - where he made kick ass machines and a cool OS, ask the "inventor" of the internet (no, not that ex-vice president)...
I stated that they should be standardised. But hey, if you say Redhat and Suse are simple and nobody has the problems I mentioned, then it must be enough.
Slashdot Mirror
See me scrolling through those pages, watch the flames appear as I type them...
Uh, the guy is political, what a loooooser, he's against the war, what a sissssssy, the guy is personal in his professional life, what a wimp!
/.
Nice going
Cool crowd.
OS X is a 'rip-off' from NeXT because it is literally the next step of NeXT. And a lot of old-school NeXT developers are carrying the flag now, so they're basically ripping off themselves.
And well, you're right, and yes, my rant was an emotional one, but just like OS X added heaps of style and innovation to an already stylish OS, KDE does have incredibly wild themes and some true innovation that take away from copy-cat stuff like Keychain or whatever. That - while it confuses me at the same time (habits habits) - I enjoy and appreciate.
The new Linspire stuff doesn't add anything new, and that is reason enough to evoke at least one emotional rant.
Not saying I wouldn't use the apps if I were to "switch" today, but I generally prefer some originality over complete copying.
Well that's something to be proud of...
When iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes saw the light, there was something about those apps. They were different, not standard at all, it took some time to get used to them (about 5 minutes).
And they kicked ass, you ended up wanting to use them, finding excuses and stupid projects (let's digitise all my JJ Cale albums, yeah!) to test and try every hook and nook of your mac all over again.
That's what original and good design can do for you, dear linux crowd. I'm currently feeling my way around KDE and while very impressed (all this for FREE?) I'm constantly muttering "rip-off" under my breath.
Amazingly enough a lot of linux users are very much badmouthing a lot of products that get copied almost to the last detail.
While I'm a standards freak and know they can be more important than innovation for the sake of it, there's a time and place and above all USE for originality and style. And there are many ways to express them.
LPhoto and LSong are Lame (as said in previous post) and not because they were copied (who cares), but because they were copied without LStyle and LOriginality and as such Lack LFlavour.
The naming. This whole iWhatever thing already is long in the teeth, but at least has meaning and says something to and about the user.
... say that ten times, real fast...
LSong? LPhoto, that's just plain LLLLLLame.
SongBox, PhotoLog or whatever, how hard is it to come up with names that mean something?
Some originality while still trying to indicate what the program does. Lsong sounds like me too much like an oriental fortune cooky quoting machine and LPhoto
A cease and desist is written in a minute and a half...
They do it basically every few weeks, so why not for commercial Linux rip-offs? It's not as if we're talking about free-ware here.
"That being said, does the nature of the World Wide Web in fact give sites like Wonkette, Drudge, or even Slashdot a free pass on accuracy if it means the difference between getting the scoop or not?"
/. but one should always be aware of the source.
/. and blogs give people the chance to react or offer alternative sources.
It's funny to say on
The web may give rise to some inaccuracy in reporting, but luckily it also empowers people to investigate themselves.
I don't want to belittle the issue, as it is an important one, but one could raise the question "should the web be more correct and integer than other media?"
At least, now you have the option of a thousand sources instead of just the pre-packaged opinions from multibillion dollar media-outlets.
And at least, places like
I meant helpful for the Linux community, not to myself.
:-)
For me, the problem was none of the PPC distributions supported Firewire HDD booting. And the other option, creating partitions through Linux itself seemed a daunting task, a typical RTFM-and-then-some Odysseus of which I just know I'm not qualified. And the hardware compatibility list showed a few red flags and workarounds that are also beyond my capabilities.
I have decided on an approach that is within my "intellectual" reach and doesn't require days of trying and reading contradictory information and messing with settings I don't understand. Been there, done that, didn't like it one bit.
So OS X native KDE support sounds like heaven. A bit of geek-estate without the head-ache. So far, even in the extremely buggy Pre-Alpha, I find a lot of nice things.
btw: I've heard of so called fool proof installations, and will surely consider them when I finally have a little PC to torture
I'm not sure if this article warrants the attention it gets and I don't like overblown titles, but *every* article get a *wild* title so don't blow your fuses on that.
But some of the reactions here on a Common Problem are funny as hell "is this guy qualified to do a Linux install?", "Is it Linux's fault that there are no drivers for his sound card?" etc.
I think a lot of linux advocates have stated that hardware compatibility and installer ease of use are weak points in Linux.
I'm now toying around with the native Pre-Alpha KDE for OS X. It comes wrapped up as an OS X-default mpkg, which means it uses Apple's standard Installer.app, and that's the only way I can enjoy OSS programs because all my other install attempts be it under X11 or on external disks have failed, because
1) installing indeed requires someone "qualified", at least on my OS and in my experience; and
2) my hardware isn't supported unless I want to wipe out my system disk and make the jump. The more I see first hand on Linux usability, the less likely that becomes.
Now I don't give a *** who's to blame. I don't blame anybody, for me it's a harmless hobby and you guys provide it to me for free, so what's to complain.
But there are only two conclusions - one is not helpful.
1) This Is A Problem
2) This Guy Is Too Stooopid To Use Linux And I'm L33T.
I don't care how you look at it, it's "your" platform, but if you like the idea of widespread adoption of Linux, you'll have to live with media attention. And that means that if there are Problems, they'll be mentioned.
Overall, I think there's an incredible amount of goodwill towards Linux at the moment. And there are a lot of people who - like me - are happy to keep looking at OSS despite some bad experiences.
A good argument to make is: usability will significantly reduce the amount of training required - since training is for most companies a considerable cost.
And as with all value adding: you should make them pay for the usability. This takes some salesmanship, but I've seen it done. It always helps to show some real world examples, they abound, both of the good and the bad.
I'm not pretending to know your business, and do take your point, but I've also seen a lot of companies go belly up because they focussed solely on short term. In the end it's about making a product that meets the customers needs. There are many ways to do it, not all of them desirable, but usability is an asset and if marketed right, a money maker, not a loss.
And it's a big help in cutting development time and otoh justifying some delays.
I excuse for the harshness of my reply, but the point is and remains: always look at the users first.
In your case - and you're right, I don't know most of the circumstances, but what was clear was: - you knew exactly who was going to use your product. That's a dream come true for a lot of developers.
And you don't only look at the most cost-effective employee, you also look at the average employee and see how you can get him in the same performance class as the most cost-effective one. Often this *can* be done by design.
And as said, cost can never be an issue since it's pretty well proven that a bit of good, honest and sustained user testing and communicating saves heaps and heaps of development costs later on.
While it takes time and effort to do usability, it generally takes a lot more time to develop, so you should always look at avoiding developing the "wrong" thing.
I'm hoping some of this amounts to something.
I've been frustrated in using Linux, and get this, I'm far from alone in this. I know sys-admins who confessed they can't install a lot of stuff they downloaded.
If there's a truly user-friendly place of people who can tell you
1) which apps actually are installable and usable
2) how you can do the most common things with them
then PJ deserves at least one Nobel price.
I don't feel it duplicates any existing project.
And two nice side effects might be:
1) a better how-to standard/template to be used by programmers or manual writers
2) more programmers caring about some of the issues inside some programs.
As always, not a developer myself, so respect and thanks.
"We added hundreds of new features, but because they lost one the upgrade was crap and they couldn't use it. I'm afraid that it's all about who bitches the loudest"
You blame users for your sheer stupidity?
You might have walked in and, talked to the users and observed which features they actually need in order to get their job done.
What keeps amazing me is that loads of programmers just don't relate - or want to relate - to users. They walk, talk, shit and stink just like you do.
Doing usability studies is easy. There's enough literature to try and do it yourself as long as you're honest about it.
And if you want to bicker about the cost, think about all the trouble you might have saved yourself...
Eternal computer buying dilemmas.
For everybody looking for the right time to buy the latest and greatest: might I suggest the following? It works every time:
Evidently, the fastest computer will be the latest model.
If you need a computer in say January, buy one in January.
If you need one today, buy one today.
Great, I'm thinking of a script that lets me listen to an endless stream of 30sec previews. Who wants to put more effort than that in music anyway.
What? You still talking about that?
"The profit margin on the iPod is LOW"
OK, I'll bite:
iPod gross margin 23% this quarter
iPod mini gross margin 20% this quarter
Now you show me an mp3 player with a higher profit margin.
In fact show me a product - any product - from say Dell with such a profit margin.
Were you a stockholder, you'd have a more informed opinion.
Cheers
"In essence, Appe takes from the open source community, mutates its function and intent, and then spits it back out with a high price and fruity colors."
Oh my god, that must be why KHTML browsers look so cool nowadays...
Every advance Apple makes in OSS, they put back in the OSS community. Hence the advances made the last couple of years in BSD.
And what's not open is what they've developed themselves, be it at NeXT or at Apple.
You should read up on the subject. Fruity colours indeed. Those iMacs happen to be W-H-I-T-E btw.
Umm, from here to Sunday? You know what? I'll bring it up again tomorrow.
You already run the native version?
I've installed the pre-alpha and toyed with it, but *use* it?
Slow as a dog and buggy as hell.
To keep up with the adjectives however, I'm as excited as a virgin going to the proms...
Looks kind of dorky in aqualand, but heaps better than Gimp.
It should come as no surprise that a lot of posts are in the vein of "they should have used xxx instead of Apple, because Apple is proprietary/expensive/..."
Which shows a lot of people who shout RTFM all day are above RTFA. I think it's pretty cool to see macs deployed in open source situations. Best of two worlds and such...
The funniest posts of course are in the vein of "they should of called my cousin Ned" (translated from "build yourself").
Which shows a lot of people don't know what "Cost" and "Cost of ownership" and associated factors are.
Even with Apple's recent track record, I doubt self-built kits will outlive a bunch of macs without blowing some fuses and minds, but whatever.
I think the appropriate response to Apple and NSW TA would be "Good on ye, mate!"
Um, I like the notion, but to be completely honest: I'd copy.
Yes I would.
And so would everybody I know. I'm pretty sure.
I'm actually very conservative about this, I think I have about 4 copied CD's in a total collection of 300+ CD's and 400+ records, but still...
I know I would do it because where I lived a year ago, I could buy pirated software for $4 as opposed to twice or trice the market price in the US, and guess what, I bought the pirates.
It's a shame, really, I won't waste your time with excuses, but the bottom line is: Software firm fears are grounded.
I'm not waving a flag for proprietary, afaic everything should be free, but as long as it isn't I don't expect programmers or musicians to turn into revolutionaries just because I'm too lame to pay for other people's work.
I'm always bitching about usability and installers, but maybe the biggest problem really is the missing "retail experience". You know (might remember): grabbing the box, checking out and reading the install instructions. Think of it as a ritual if you will.
If such a library project could emulate some of this, that would overcome a big obstacle.
I think: include a booklet with hardware compatibility, system requirements and install instructions, make sure all distributions are stable and leave the experimental stuff for adventurers out of it. Adventurers will have to "rough it" on their own, it's part of the fun, or so I'm told.
Also provide a descriptive list of what's included. Linux program names are horribly confusing.
Just thought I'd mention here that Steve Jobs had nothing to do with Apple's lock-out strategy. That was that ex-pepsi guy Jobs reeled in.
Jobs at the time was already fired for his hum arrogance.
I'd love to see Apple make strategic alliances, but rather with Sony than with Real. Anyway, although the guy has a big mouth, he has done some pretty amazing things, and a lot of Apple's bad business decisions had nothing to do with him.
He was making his own bad decisions at NeXT - where he made kick ass machines and a cool OS, ask the "inventor" of the internet (no, not that ex-vice president)...
Oh well, whatever.
I stated that they should be standardised.
But hey, if you say Redhat and Suse are simple and nobody has the problems I mentioned, then it must be enough.
Year of the desktop.