So I can ignore the GPL if I like? I can take GPLed code, change it, use it in my device or product and then sell that product?
Then when people ask for the source code, or my changes to this code I am now using commercially I can tell then to get stuffed?
You can argue that it *shouldn't* be legal for conditions to be imposed after purchase (although they're really not - you can read a full copy of the terms and conditions for OS X on Apple's website before purchase if you so choose [here is is btw: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf%5D), but that doesn't make it so. I don't think it should be illegal for under 18s to buy alcohol, but the law says otherwise. As the law stands currently, they are on Apple's side here.
The outside of the box features the bit you are complaining about. It is easy to read (although printed small because the box is very thin) even if it is in pale grey text. Might have been better if it was printed in black.
You don't have to break any seals to read it. The same information is also printed on the outside of box on new Mac computers too.
If Jezza's information from Apple's own site is not enough, how about this from amazon:
Main Specifications Product Description: Mac OS X Snow Leopard - ( v. 10.6 ) - version upgrade package Operating System: Apple MacOS X 10.6 Version: 10.6 License Type: Version upgrade package License Qty: 1 user License Pricing: Standard Upgrade from: Apple MacOS X v. 10.5 Media: DVD-ROM Package Type: Retail
In nice big, clear letters, before you add it to the shopping cart. It does also say it on the box too - I have one on my desk right here. Says quite clearly "Requirements: Mac computer with an Intel processor [other info] see www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html. Don't steal software." Very definitely on the outside of the box, legible clearly before you open it or break any seals.
I was thinking the exact same thing, and if the results had been reversed and the Droid had been on top, we'd have had a flurry of posts talking about how the iPhone is an overpriced and inferior option.
I also have issues with my iPhone (lack of built in MMS initially, lack of cut and paste until recently, annoyance that you still can't sync up your ToDo items from iCal with the built in calendar app and have to rely on third party apps, annoyance that you have to manually disable wifi if are trying to use 3G in an area with a hotspot, where it will try to use that wifi, even if you don't have a password for it, or its one of those web login ones).
What's wrong with saying "the droid's touch sensitivity is less effective than I'd like"? It seems like droid users are just as zealous about their phones as they accuse iPhone users of being.
No, I remember when they changed it, and I knew exactly where it was, because someone asked me about it at the time. I don't remember a huge slashdot campaign about it though.
No, you ran with "Apple is deluded and believes it's own hype" only to then tell me you remembered when they changed their website. You just weren't expecting me to point it out and back it up with a citation, so you are now trying to backtrack.
You can call me a "fanboi" all you like - I have stood up and been counted on both sides of a debate about Apple and will openly criticise them if I feel it is necessary. Equally I will come down on the side of Microsoft in situations where that is warranted. If you're looking for a black and white style "Everything Apple does is good and they must never be questioned!" then you will not find it here.
Also, you can drop the impoliteness. I may have been a little flippant in my initial arguments with a touch or sarcasm, but I'm not telling you to fuck off. I have not been impolite to you, and I'd ask that you maintain the same level of discourse. If you want to just yell obscenities and namecall, you can go to 4chan.
So they were calling the Mac virus free in the 80s? The 70s? The first virus was on the Apple II as I recall - back in the early 80s.
Also [citation needed] on this site mocking Apple for updating their page re: security. You just spent several posts spouting off how Apple thinks it is immune and "deluded" and now you are claiming all along that you remembered specifically when they updated their wording about OS X to specifically *not* say that? You can't have it both ways.
[quote]The Mac is designed with built-in technologies that provide protection against malicious software and security threats right out of the box. However, since no system can be 100 percent immune from every threat, antivirus software may offer additional protection.[/quote]
What, that you're trying to use semantics to disprove your opponent's argument?
How about if we expand the discussion to "malware", and use the term "malware" in place of "virus" - so that covers worms, trojans, adware, spyware, keyloggers, viruses...
How many OS X boxes have been turned into nodes in a botnet? How many Mac users have been affected by a keylogger and had their bank account details stolen, or their WoW account (both are very profitable)? How many OS X users have spread an infection from their box to all the users in their Address Book?
You are claiming it's trivial to exploit OS X. I will buy it if you can prove it. So far, it does not seem to be the case. Is it just as trivial to exploit Linux installs?
I guess that explains why my OS X boxes are so crippled with countless viruses. There are just so many!
I didn't get that "virus" from the p2p sites though, that pretended to be Office for Mac but instead deleted your home folder after asking for your password. Guess I was just lucky!
Phew!
What's the number for Norton again? I better get on this right away!
(and let's also head off the "it's not popular enough to write viruses for" myth - compare the number of infected Windows webservers running IIS/Server with Linux based ones running apache. Not to mention the fact that the first proper virus on OS X that is seriously dangerous without social engineering methods will be a huge coup for whoever writes it.)
You seem to be positing that Apple does not take security seriously - well the vast, vast, vast number of OS X viruses in the wild seem to be totally rubbing their faces in that position, right? If it is so trivial to write viruses for OS X, why aren't there (m)any (more than a handful of proof of concept/trojans/malware that deletes home folder)? What is stopping the explosion of trivial-to-write viruses on OS X? It's certainly not low numbers of installs.
Light a thousand cigarettes near a boxed iPod that is open. I bet it never explodes. You know very well what I mean when I talk about contained chemical energy and the safe handling of such. You can drop a can of hairspray from head height as often as you like too and it likely won't explode, but if you punctured it with a screwdriver, you won't be pleased with the results. This is about safe precautions for things that can harm you. No one stores open cans of gasoline next to their bench grinder, or by the furnace. People just don't attribute lithium batteries the same amount of care in handling.
There is a difference between a defect that causes the battery to catch fire and a user mishandling (or one off defect) that causes the same thing. Extensive testing by Apple and by third parties who can *force* Apple to do a recall if they believe they won't call one for a necessary fault and we have yet to see one for iPods. We did see one for the power adapters that could cause a fire, and for the iBook logic boards which were genuinely faulty due to design issues.
What about all the Sony batteries? And this current Acer recall?
Apple devices only seem to explode more than others due to the enormously out of proportion response that issues like this cause regarding Apple products. They are no more or less likely than any other small electronic device that has a lithium battery (after all, the battery itself is not unique to apple - they buy them from 3rd party manufacturers that also sell them to others).
Of course it shouldn't explode, but you cannot ever remove that risk if you pack that much energy into a tiny package and then don;t treat it with respect. A can of gasoline is equally dangerous if you mistreat it since it is a volatile form of chemical energy that is useful to us. A pressurised can of hairspray or deodorant is the same. Safe if handled properly, but will cause *severe* damage if mishandled. A lithium polymer battery is no different.
What do you think is in there? I have disassembled many Apple devices over the years - they tend to be reasonably well protected for such small things.
Of course it shouldn't burst into flame at the first sign of a drop, but it's what all the fuss is about - how do you know that was the first time he dropped it? Perhaps it experienced some other trauma before the "small drop" that finally set it off. Perhaps it was a one off in the batch.
When companies hear about this of course they test to see if it is a widespread problem by attempting to replicate the issues raised by customers. They just don't show it publicly, unless a recall is needed.
(not to mention during the product design cycle, situations like this will have been tested: dropping it from height repeatedly, splashing it with water, leaving it in the equivalent of a hot car on a sunny day, freezing it, throwing it, deliberately overcharging it etc).
Think about how many iPods, iPhones, MacBooks and MBPs get dropped every day. How many of them "burst into flames"? Given the number of them out there you think you'd see it a lot more if it was a widespread problem. Of course any fires or explosions are not good, but that's the price you pay for storing up the energy of a grenade into a battery pack. Apple's devices are not unique in using LiIon and LiPoly battery packs.
I think I have seen one female dwarf rogue - not sure if she was Sub. I waved to her from my female dwarf holy engineer/tailoring priest. I kid you not.
I once pugged an UB run back at 70 and was asked in all seriousness why my dwarf was smaller than a normal dwarf - I had to point out she was female.
Aye, that's what I was driving at but I initially worded it badly - the initial assertion was that there are no rules for an emergency vehicle, where there actually are - they're just different.
Not treating a red light as a give way would be a violation of those rules, for example; you can't just drive through without looking out for other traffic, even with your sirens on.
Apparently it doesn't have a grammar checker though, assuming you posted this from your new Nexus One. Apostrophes are important. I'm also not sure how the chrome on the iPhone in any way relates to the performance of the phone itself compared to a Nexus One. You seemed to jump between points there; are you comparing the way the two phone looks, or they way they perform? I want to have a look at one and properly compare it to my iPhone (3G version with the slower CPU) - are you suggesting I take the chrome off my phone before doing any tests?
Nancy can write whatever she likes - I am near certain that she does not own an iPhone. The likely conclusion is that she owns a Nexus One and is having issues with it. You know the sort of thing; write about stuff you are experiencing and testing.
Oh wait, you were just trying to spread baseless, false information in an attempt to smear Apple... somehow. By what? Making it look like iPhone-using journalists set out to deliberately smear the competition.
Remind me not to call you if I need business tactics.
Blizzard knows exactly how to keep people out of the game, and tells you how to do it. It has extensive FAQs on account security and how to prevent it happening. What they cannot do is control whether users read and follow these tips, or keep spyware off their machines.
The simple fact is that all you need to log in the account is the user name and password, which are trivial to acquire from dumb people wither by technical or social engineering methods.
The authenticator prevents this, and is free for many mobile phones or costs €6.99 from the store if you don't have a compatible phone. Alternatively you can just use the current system and be smart. I had a WoW account since the original release of the game and have never been compromised: I don't share my account details, I keep my machine up to date, I have no virus/keylogger/spyware issues and I don't go to gold selling websites. I have never needed the authenticator.
I have known people in game who have had their accounts taken - some more than once.
If you think Blizzard "has no clue how to keep accounts secure from hackers" then you are sorely mistaken. The introduction of the optional authenticator immediately dismisses that assertion right off the bat. The fact that people still choose not to use it and then wail about long GM response times for restoration of their stolen accounts is hardly Blizzard's fault.
Right, after Apple tested and reproduced the faults (to confirm that it's not just user misuse and an actual fault) they issued a recall. No different to any other company when something like this comes up.
Well, except perhaps Ford and the Pinto fuel tank, but they gambled and lost on that one.
There's a long history of many manufacturers not "admitting" there is a fault with a product unless they have something in place to deal with it - eg, a recall if it actually is faulty, or a replacement part, or some other fix, or whether a fault is confined to a certain batch of products or affects all models in a whole line. Just because people are making a lot of noise about it and demanding a response ZOMG RIGHT NOW does not mean they necessarily will even confirm or deny they are looking at the issue internally. It doesn't mean people aren't "imagining" their iBook's logic board dying - it's just an isolated incident or a lemon (every mass-produced product line has them) until further investigations can determine whether it is an actual systemic issue. When it was determined to be so, Apple recalled them all.
Slashdot Mirror
So I can ignore the GPL if I like? I can take GPLed code, change it, use it in my device or product and then sell that product?
Then when people ask for the source code, or my changes to this code I am now using commercially I can tell then to get stuffed?
You can argue that it *shouldn't* be legal for conditions to be imposed after purchase (although they're really not - you can read a full copy of the terms and conditions for OS X on Apple's website before purchase if you so choose [here is is btw: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf%5D), but that doesn't make it so. I don't think it should be illegal for under 18s to buy alcohol, but the law says otherwise. As the law stands currently, they are on Apple's side here.
The outside of the box features the bit you are complaining about. It is easy to read (although printed small because the box is very thin) even if it is in pale grey text. Might have been better if it was printed in black.
You don't have to break any seals to read it. The same information is also printed on the outside of box on new Mac computers too.
If Jezza's information from Apple's own site is not enough, how about this from amazon:
Main Specifications
Product Description: Mac OS X Snow Leopard - ( v. 10.6 ) - version upgrade package
Operating System: Apple MacOS X 10.6
Version: 10.6
License Type: Version upgrade package
License Qty: 1 user
License Pricing: Standard
Upgrade from: Apple MacOS X v. 10.5
Media: DVD-ROM
Package Type: Retail
In nice big, clear letters, before you add it to the shopping cart. It does also say it on the box too - I have one on my desk right here. Says quite clearly "Requirements: Mac computer with an Intel processor [other info] see www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html. Don't steal software." Very definitely on the outside of the box, legible clearly before you open it or break any seals.
Whose uses drive letters any more? Is it 1991?
I was thinking the exact same thing, and if the results had been reversed and the Droid had been on top, we'd have had a flurry of posts talking about how the iPhone is an overpriced and inferior option.
I also have issues with my iPhone (lack of built in MMS initially, lack of cut and paste until recently, annoyance that you still can't sync up your ToDo items from iCal with the built in calendar app and have to rely on third party apps, annoyance that you have to manually disable wifi if are trying to use 3G in an area with a hotspot, where it will try to use that wifi, even if you don't have a password for it, or its one of those web login ones).
What's wrong with saying "the droid's touch sensitivity is less effective than I'd like"? It seems like droid users are just as zealous about their phones as they accuse iPhone users of being.
No, I remember when they changed it, and I knew exactly where it was, because someone asked me about it at the time. I don't remember a huge slashdot campaign about it though.
No, you ran with "Apple is deluded and believes it's own hype" only to then tell me you remembered when they changed their website. You just weren't expecting me to point it out and back it up with a citation, so you are now trying to backtrack.
You can call me a "fanboi" all you like - I have stood up and been counted on both sides of a debate about Apple and will openly criticise them if I feel it is necessary. Equally I will come down on the side of Microsoft in situations where that is warranted. If you're looking for a black and white style "Everything Apple does is good and they must never be questioned!" then you will not find it here.
Also, you can drop the impoliteness. I may have been a little flippant in my initial arguments with a touch or sarcasm, but I'm not telling you to fuck off. I have not been impolite to you, and I'd ask that you maintain the same level of discourse. If you want to just yell obscenities and namecall, you can go to 4chan.
Decades eh?
So they were calling the Mac virus free in the 80s? The 70s? The first virus was on the Apple II as I recall - back in the early 80s.
Also [citation needed] on this site mocking Apple for updating their page re: security. You just spent several posts spouting off how Apple thinks it is immune and "deluded" and now you are claiming all along that you remembered specifically when they updated their wording about OS X to specifically *not* say that? You can't have it both ways.
Ok, so given all that, not that I necessarily agree with it, *where are all the OS X viruses*?
From Apple's own site btw:
[quote]The Mac is designed with built-in technologies that provide protection against malicious software and security threats right out of the box. However, since no system can be 100 percent immune from every threat, antivirus software may offer additional protection.[/quote]
from: http://www.apple.com/macosx/security/
Yeah, they really do sound deluded!
What, that you're trying to use semantics to disprove your opponent's argument?
How about if we expand the discussion to "malware", and use the term "malware" in place of "virus" - so that covers worms, trojans, adware, spyware, keyloggers, viruses...
How many OS X boxes have been turned into nodes in a botnet? How many Mac users have been affected by a keylogger and had their bank account details stolen, or their WoW account (both are very profitable)? How many OS X users have spread an infection from their box to all the users in their Address Book?
You are claiming it's trivial to exploit OS X. I will buy it if you can prove it. So far, it does not seem to be the case. Is it just as trivial to exploit Linux installs?
I guess that explains why my OS X boxes are so crippled with countless viruses. There are just so many!
I didn't get that "virus" from the p2p sites though, that pretended to be Office for Mac but instead deleted your home folder after asking for your password. Guess I was just lucky!
Phew!
What's the number for Norton again? I better get on this right away!
(and let's also head off the "it's not popular enough to write viruses for" myth - compare the number of infected Windows webservers running IIS/Server with Linux based ones running apache. Not to mention the fact that the first proper virus on OS X that is seriously dangerous without social engineering methods will be a huge coup for whoever writes it.)
You seem to be positing that Apple does not take security seriously - well the vast, vast, vast number of OS X viruses in the wild seem to be totally rubbing their faces in that position, right? If it is so trivial to write viruses for OS X, why aren't there (m)any (more than a handful of proof of concept/trojans/malware that deletes home folder)? What is stopping the explosion of trivial-to-write viruses on OS X? It's certainly not low numbers of installs.
Light a thousand cigarettes near a boxed iPod that is open. I bet it never explodes. You know very well what I mean when I talk about contained chemical energy and the safe handling of such. You can drop a can of hairspray from head height as often as you like too and it likely won't explode, but if you punctured it with a screwdriver, you won't be pleased with the results. This is about safe precautions for things that can harm you. No one stores open cans of gasoline next to their bench grinder, or by the furnace. People just don't attribute lithium batteries the same amount of care in handling.
There is a difference between a defect that causes the battery to catch fire and a user mishandling (or one off defect) that causes the same thing. Extensive testing by Apple and by third parties who can *force* Apple to do a recall if they believe they won't call one for a necessary fault and we have yet to see one for iPods. We did see one for the power adapters that could cause a fire, and for the iBook logic boards which were genuinely faulty due to design issues.
What about all the Sony batteries? And this current Acer recall?
Apple devices only seem to explode more than others due to the enormously out of proportion response that issues like this cause regarding Apple products. They are no more or less likely than any other small electronic device that has a lithium battery (after all, the battery itself is not unique to apple - they buy them from 3rd party manufacturers that also sell them to others).
Of course it shouldn't explode, but you cannot ever remove that risk if you pack that much energy into a tiny package and then don;t treat it with respect. A can of gasoline is equally dangerous if you mistreat it since it is a volatile form of chemical energy that is useful to us. A pressurised can of hairspray or deodorant is the same. Safe if handled properly, but will cause *severe* damage if mishandled. A lithium polymer battery is no different.
What do you think is in there? I have disassembled many Apple devices over the years - they tend to be reasonably well protected for such small things.
Of course it shouldn't burst into flame at the first sign of a drop, but it's what all the fuss is about - how do you know that was the first time he dropped it? Perhaps it experienced some other trauma before the "small drop" that finally set it off. Perhaps it was a one off in the batch.
When companies hear about this of course they test to see if it is a widespread problem by attempting to replicate the issues raised by customers. They just don't show it publicly, unless a recall is needed.
(not to mention during the product design cycle, situations like this will have been tested: dropping it from height repeatedly, splashing it with water, leaving it in the equivalent of a hot car on a sunny day, freezing it, throwing it, deliberately overcharging it etc).
Think about how many iPods, iPhones, MacBooks and MBPs get dropped every day. How many of them "burst into flames"? Given the number of them out there you think you'd see it a lot more if it was a widespread problem. Of course any fires or explosions are not good, but that's the price you pay for storing up the energy of a grenade into a battery pack. Apple's devices are not unique in using LiIon and LiPoly battery packs.
You can never be too careful with Apple bash posts.
Got to take them seriously.
I think I have seen one female dwarf rogue - not sure if she was Sub. I waved to her from my female dwarf holy engineer/tailoring priest. I kid you not.
I once pugged an UB run back at 70 and was asked in all seriousness why my dwarf was smaller than a normal dwarf - I had to point out she was female.
Aye, that's what I was driving at but I initially worded it badly - the initial assertion was that there are no rules for an emergency vehicle, where there actually are - they're just different.
Not treating a red light as a give way would be a violation of those rules, for example; you can't just drive through without looking out for other traffic, even with your sirens on.
(I also live in the UK)
If you mean the well-known manufacturer that I think you mean, they already sell phones that can be unlocked for any carrier.
Perhaps not in the US though. But blame the carriers for that one.
Airplane 1.0's first flight was also shorter than the length of a 747.
Took off near the nose, touched down again near the tail.
Sarcasm Detection? There's an App for That.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
(redundant, I know, but the other reply had too small of a "wooooosh")
Apparently it doesn't have a grammar checker though, assuming you posted this from your new Nexus One. Apostrophes are important. I'm also not sure how the chrome on the iPhone in any way relates to the performance of the phone itself compared to a Nexus One. You seemed to jump between points there; are you comparing the way the two phone looks, or they way they perform? I want to have a look at one and properly compare it to my iPhone (3G version with the slower CPU) - are you suggesting I take the chrome off my phone before doing any tests?
Nancy can write whatever she likes - I am near certain that she does not own an iPhone. The likely conclusion is that she owns a Nexus One and is having issues with it. You know the sort of thing; write about stuff you are experiencing and testing.
An android phone.
Oh wait, you were just trying to spread baseless, false information in an attempt to smear Apple... somehow. By what? Making it look like iPhone-using journalists set out to deliberately smear the competition.
Remind me not to call you if I need business tactics.
Blizzard knows exactly how to keep people out of the game, and tells you how to do it. It has extensive FAQs on account security and how to prevent it happening. What they cannot do is control whether users read and follow these tips, or keep spyware off their machines.
The simple fact is that all you need to log in the account is the user name and password, which are trivial to acquire from dumb people wither by technical or social engineering methods.
The authenticator prevents this, and is free for many mobile phones or costs €6.99 from the store if you don't have a compatible phone. Alternatively you can just use the current system and be smart. I had a WoW account since the original release of the game and have never been compromised: I don't share my account details, I keep my machine up to date, I have no virus/keylogger/spyware issues and I don't go to gold selling websites. I have never needed the authenticator.
I have known people in game who have had their accounts taken - some more than once.
If you think Blizzard "has no clue how to keep accounts secure from hackers" then you are sorely mistaken. The introduction of the optional authenticator immediately dismisses that assertion right off the bat. The fact that people still choose not to use it and then wail about long GM response times for restoration of their stolen accounts is hardly Blizzard's fault.
Right, after Apple tested and reproduced the faults (to confirm that it's not just user misuse and an actual fault) they issued a recall. No different to any other company when something like this comes up.
Well, except perhaps Ford and the Pinto fuel tank, but they gambled and lost on that one.
There's a long history of many manufacturers not "admitting" there is a fault with a product unless they have something in place to deal with it - eg, a recall if it actually is faulty, or a replacement part, or some other fix, or whether a fault is confined to a certain batch of products or affects all models in a whole line. Just because people are making a lot of noise about it and demanding a response ZOMG RIGHT NOW does not mean they necessarily will even confirm or deny they are looking at the issue internally. It doesn't mean people aren't "imagining" their iBook's logic board dying - it's just an isolated incident or a lemon (every mass-produced product line has them) until further investigations can determine whether it is an actual systemic issue. When it was determined to be so, Apple recalled them all.
It's not rocket surgery.